Which knuckles do I punch with

[Facepalm]

So Ive heard that you should punch with the first two knuckles because they are the largest and the bones extend into your forearm.

Ive also heard you should punch with the last three knuckles because they extend into your forearm.

Which one is it guys.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Both.
Your welcome.
:D

[Cappadonna]

i've heard that your other knuckles other than the first 2 are prone to breaking easily if you punch with them

[TenTigers]

it all depends. Different punches require different alignments, and will strike with different knuckles. The Ping Choy-reverse punch-hits with the index and ring finger knuckles, the Yat Ji Choy-vertical punch hits with the bottom three.

[Pork Chop]

I personally prefer the middle two (middle & ring)
my middle knuckle is significantly taller than my other knuckles
i refuse to do the old style karate training of flattening the middle knuckle, so..
if I go the first two knuckles (index & middle), i have to over pronate my wrist to make contact
if i go the last two knuckles (ring & pinkie), my pinkie's likely to shatter
the middle two is a happy medium that helps me get power, keep my structure, and not risk too much damage

that being said, if i throw a hook with the fist horizontal, i'll try to land with the first two knuckles - i do that to ensure that i don't accidentally catch my pinkie and break it.
sometimes, i'll land with the first two on my cross as well - coming from a southpaw angle, many times my target is more on the thumb-side than the pinkie side so I don't have to pronate the wrist.

Dempsey recommended the last 3 (middle, ring, & pinkie)
Frazier and many others recommend the first two (index & middle)

[TenTigers]

"i refuse to do the old style karate training of flattening the middle knuckle"
must be referrinng to some white guy teaching what he thought was traditional. Not even Oyama advocated this. But I remember when training in American Combat Karate with Richard Barathy, some of his Black Belts said you had to break the knuckles and then 're-form them"-and some of these guys did just that.
but, these guys were also known for "Better training through modern chemistry"

[TenTigers]

I throw my hook with a vertical fist. This way, it ensures that I am always landing with my fist, wrist and knuckles aligned to my radius and ulna. If you have a taped, wrapped, gloved hand, for sport fighting, it may not be as crucial, but in bare-knuckle fighting, it most certainly is.

[Lucas]

it all depends. Different punches require different alignments, and will strike with different knuckles. The Ping Choy-reverse punch-hits with the index and ring finger knuckles, the Yat Ji Choy-vertical punch hits with the bottom three.

thats how i look at it. the structure of your arm depending on your punch can dictate what knuckles will be in better alignment to take more force. horizontle/verticle fist.

excample: verticle jab i use the last three, horizontle straight i use the first 2. but maybe thats just me.

[TenTigers]

excample: verticle jab i use the last three, horizontle straight i use the first 2. but maybe thats just me.
you and Dempsey.;)

[Lucas]

you and Dempsey.;)

lol, at least im not the only one!

[Pork Chop]

I throw my hook with a vertical fist. This way, it ensures that I am always landing with my fist, wrist and knuckles aligned to my radius and ulna. If you have a taped, wrapped, gloved hand, for sport fighting, it may not be as crucial, but in bare-knuckle fighting, it most certainly is.

I'm a vertical-fist hooker as well :D, for the same reason you mention - throwing horizontal-fist hooks I've actually seen lead to fractured hand bones along the pinkie in training; that's why if i ever DO throw horizontal hooks I make extra sure to hit with the first 2 knuckles


I don't remember which karate guys I talked to that mentioned busting down the middle knuckle.
i went to high school with some pretty high level kids in uechiryu & seidokan - children of some of the higher level instructors on Okinawa; but I also hung out with a couple guys who were pretty delusional karate wannabes. I wouldn't be surprised if i heard the middle knuckle thing from one of the wannabes.

[Ben Gash]

I just keep it simple and aim to hit with the middle knuckle whichever punch I'm throwing (Bas Rutten advocates this).

[Boston Bagua]

I dont punch much.

Much more fun to use all open hands and see where it goes...

[iron_leg_dave]

So Ive heard that you should punch with the first two knuckles because they are the largest and the bones extend into your forearm.

Ive also heard you should punch with the last three knuckles because they extend into your forearm.

Which one is it guys.


Don't go that way.

Hit with your fist if you are hitting with your fist.

[iron_leg_dave]

I dont punch much.

Much more fun to use all open hands and see where it goes...


Not everyone can break bricks by phucking glaring at them Dale. :D

[iron_leg_dave]

I throw my hook with a vertical fist. This way, it ensures that I am always landing with my fist, wrist and knuckles aligned to my radius and ulna. If you have a taped, wrapped, gloved hand, for sport fighting, it may not be as crucial, but in bare-knuckle fighting, it most certainly is.


All of William Chen's authentic lineage throw the hook that way. There is a drill with weights to practice hooks in continuous succesion from him but it is really painful. I show it to people, but I don't actually do it.

[Lee Chiang Po]

A hook is a waste of energy. Throw them straight and direct. Most people don't know how to make a good fist. You do not roll your fingers into a fist. You bring your finger tips as close to the wrist as you can, then as you form the fist the tips will drag toward the palm. If you should accidently strike with the second knuckles they will not be forced into the palm and broken. Also, the wrist only supports the last 3 knuckles. The first one is angled upward and is quite easily broken. You want to be able to strike with all your power and not break your own hands.
Follow through is also a waste of energy. On impact all the energy is quickly dispersed into the target. A follow through is nothing more than a shove after the fact. Strike and retract quickly so that you can strike again.
It is quite commonly thought that striking with a large knuckle will cause far more damage. It might cause local damage, like torn skin or a bruise, but it loses a lot of the energy on impact. a flat surface will empart a great deal more energy to a target. A slap will knock you out if it is a good one. The referal shock of the impact will vibrate the brain and make you lose all sense of reality.

[YouKnowWho]

I throw my hook with a vertical fist. This way, it ensures that I am always landing with my fist,

I throw my hook with my forearm (45 degree downward force). This way I can follow with a head lock after that. But most of the time I like to use my hook to build a bridge.

[Paul T England]

I used to think, vertical punch bottom three, reverse punch, jab, cross etc Index finger.....now I use the same knuckle for all regular full fisted punches (excluding chap choys and Fung Nan).

You often contact with bottom three or top two but I always focus on the biggest knuckle.

(I do that for Wing Chun, Mantis, Eskrima and Tai chi, no difference)

The Eskrima Hook I was taught uses the vertical fist while hooking and still the biggest knuckle....

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[sanjuro_ronin]

A hook is a waste of energy. Throw them straight and direct. Most people don't know how to make a good fist. You do not roll your fingers into a fist. You bring your finger tips as close to the wrist as you can, then as you form the fist the tips will drag toward the palm. If you should accidently strike with the second knuckles they will not be forced into the palm and broken. Also, the wrist only supports the last 3 knuckles. The first one is angled upward and is quite easily broken. You want to be able to strike with all your power and not break your own hands.
Follow through is also a waste of energy. On impact all the energy is quickly dispersed into the target. A follow through is nothing more than a shove after the fact. Strike and retract quickly so that you can strike again.
It is quite commonly thought that striking with a large knuckle will cause far more damage. It might cause local damage, like torn skin or a bruise, but it loses a lot of the energy on impact. a flat surface will empart a great deal more energy to a target. A slap will knock you out if it is a good one. The referal shock of the impact will vibrate the brain and make you lose all sense of reality.


Wow, just...wow.:rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

Wow, just...wow.:rolleyes:

lol, you caught that too eh?

hmmmmmn.

oh wait...

Bwahahahahahahahhahaahahahahah WTF???!!! ELEVEN!!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol, you caught that too eh?

hmmmmmn.

oh wait...

Bwahahahahahahahhahaahahahahah WTF???!!! ELEVEN!!!!

I don't usually comment on any of his posts because, well, LCP seems to be living in La-La land more than in the real world, but that one was just...Wow !
LMAO !!

[Drake]

Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique

'nuff said.

[Ray Pina]

Place your fist's first two knuckles against the wall at face hight... look at your wrist alignment here. It's terrible.

Now place your last two knuckles against the wall. Much better alignment. This is why boxers can hit the heavy bag without closing their fist all the way. Those last two knuckles line up well.

But strikes come in from all different angles. Which require different alignments, so in reality there is no right or wrong way. It all depends.

I still like using single knuckle strikes from time to time, in close range, when targeting ribs or the upper lip.

[David Jamieson]

best results come from striking with the structure that is fully support through the skeleton.

while many people do hit with the pinky and ring, those can easily damage the bones in the hand behind them, whereas index and middle are supported more robustly by the entire skeletal structure. (they connect well through the hand to the two arm bones which in turn are supported by the rest of the skeletal structure)

ultimately, what you want to do is land your punches with some power.

you will find that you cannot always strike with the index and middle and that you will need to train to strike with them for best effect.

You will also find that you are not always able to cleanly strike with that structure 100% of the time.

[jdhowland]

Just do lots of knuckle push ups and heavy bag work. That will teach proper alignment through various rotations quickly.
jd

[Facepalm]

Thanks for all the really good advice everyone.

Currently im taught to try to use the first two knuckles and we always emphasize this whenever doing knuckle push ups and hitting bags.

I think however I might give the other knuckles a little more attention now.:D

Again thanks everyone

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Baah, who needs to use fists. Personally, my uber secret technique is to smash my opponents fists with my face.

[Pork Chop]

I don't usually comment on any of his posts because, well, LCP seems to be living in La-La land more than in the real world, but that one was just...Wow !
LMAO !!

he remembers living in new orleans in the 60s
so while he lives in my state (albeit a 4.5+ hour drive),
i'm reluctant to go and show him that my hook & my follow through aren't a waste of time
not big on beating up old men
at least not until i'm 35+ and start fighting in the master's division.

[goju]

supposedly as ive heard from morio higaonna saying that last two are supposedly connected with the heart in chinese medical textbooks so its advocated to punch with the first two for your healths sake


if you do alot of makiwara practice youll become acustomed to it and your knuckles will enlarge to make it easier to strike with the first two

[indiefilmactor]

So Ive heard that you should punch with the first two knuckles because they are the largest and the bones extend into your forearm.

Ive also heard you should punch with the last three knuckles because they extend into your forearm.

Which one is it guys.

Fundamentally speaking anyway, using your fists to strike out in defence is going to be a subjective matter. The options that would become available to hit may be limbs, parts of the torso, the head.
Your striking techniques change accordingly. They have to, unless of course you truely have conditioned hands -- you have soaked them in vinegar, etc.
If those hands of yours aren't conditioned, then a multitude of strikes using different areas of the hand are an option, unless you don't mind injuring your hands as would happen in repititive blows of the same technique to the head.

[AdrianK]

I throw my hook with a vertical fist. This way, it ensures that I am always landing with my fist, wrist and knuckles aligned to my radius and ulna. If you have a taped, wrapped, gloved hand, for sport fighting, it may not be as crucial, but in bare-knuckle fighting, it most certainly is.

Its still very common in boxing, to throw it like that, glove or no glove.


Anyways, back to the original question. People say this, people say that. If you're throwing your punch with enough force at a heavy bag or whatnot, you can figure it out for yourself. Hurt = Bad. Doesn't hurt = Good. If its doing damage, you should feel it, just like you'll feel it if your wrist isn't straight and you land a big bomb on the bag or mitt. Ouch. Yeah I learned really quick how to throw my hook after going home with extreme pain in my wrists.

Of course, if all you do is punch the air, it doesn't really matter what knuckle you punch with, you're gonna get your ass kicked anyway :D

[Ray Pina]

I busted my wrist twice learning Hsing-I. It increased my punching power tremendously but I didn't use wraps and didn't have all this down the way I do now.... though I was fired up hitting the bag in my house the other day and I was going one way, the bag the other, and I slipped off a wide hook and my wrist bent kind of funny. No injury. No pain. Got lucky. The jiu-jitz helps with that, though.

[JackNate]

I use the common index+middle knuckle punch, but most of the impact with the middle knuckle.

[goju]

oh i forgot to mention if your gonna punch with the first two knuckles60 percent of the impact should be with the first knuckles and forty on the second:D

[Ray Pina]

I'm slow so I have to ask: you're fu(king kidding right?

[goju]

whos joking?

[Lucas]

i think he meant the contact distribution of the knuckles you posted.

im assuming that you mean when you're drilling punches on a makiwara or something, because trying to be that precice when your in the middle of a fight isnt really a priority, or realistic. i mean i suppose if thats how you drill your punches, then in a fight your going to fall back on your structure and technique, but all of the variances in play are going to make it imperfect, by nature.

:D

[Ray Pina]

I miss the LSD-laced drinks.... it's been a long time.

[goju]

you dont have to think about it when your in the middle of a fight you hit the makiwara so many times the correct way its just the way you naturally punch while you spar or hit the heavy bag
after a few months of hard every day conditioning ive never punched someone or the heavy bag with any thing other than the first two knuckles it just becomes automatic:D
the general 60/40 is excepted in all major karate styles as the prefered way to strike

[RenDaHai]

Not sure if it helps or if i will subject myself to ridicule, but my personal experience is to aim to hit with the ENTIRE fist. As in all 8 knuckles. The fist is tense in such a way as to be square, not so tense as to make the first two knuckles protrude. When you punch in this way the middle knuckle is largest and will take the brunt of the impact.

Hitting CURVED BONE such as the face causes ones hand to slip, I defy anyone in the heat of the moment to aim accurately using a specific knuckle. Concentrate on keeping a solid shape with the wrist and fist is good enough.

Try Wrapping a BOWLING BALL in rags, then punch it. You will see the difference in punching a skull when compared to punching a bag. Plus you have to take into account the speed and ease of movement of a persons head.

Stabbing someone in the face with a knife will not knock them out. Hitting with one knuckle would cause a lot of pain, but generally i think a dizzying blunt attack would be preferable. Unless off course you are more intent on mutilation than simply defending yourself.

[goju]

the idea with punching with only two is a smaller area of impact is more painfull than the whole hand or all the kuckles
my first two on each hand are also extremely enlarged as well so is hard not to hit with them
and generally its prefered to attack the body since karate guys are body shotters:D