Drop Stance

[Lucas]

The drop stance (Pu Bu), can sometimes be a controversial subject for some martial artists.

Some view the stance as completely useless. In regards to the aspect of not being needed in fighting. Some martial arts styles do not train with this stance at all.

A kick, sweep, takedown, grapple, power generation...etc. there are several intended uses of the drop stance.

Based on a recent conversation, I've decided to make an inquiry with you fine fellows here.

My inquiry is; How often do/have YOU employ(ed) a drop stance in resistance fighting, specifically full contact. Also, in what situation, if any, have you utilized the drop stance, ie; grappling/sweeping/takedown etc?

I personally have not trained in Shuai Jiao, yet I have seen the drop stance used in Shuai Jiao matches.

For this im not really looking for stance training or forms or concepts or ideas. but actual use under heavy stress and resistance. however any input you want to add on the subject of the drop stance is welcome.

Edit: I should add that I have only used this stance in LIGHT sparring matches, to some success and some failings. Anything medium or up I've never used this stance in a match. Though, I am not a grappler....

[jdhowland]

Ive used it exactly one time. And it happened to work. Here's the situation: a remand at an intake facility decides he wants to fight after wrist restraints are removed. I apply a shoulder lock and bring him face down onto the floor. Somehow, on the way down I decide that I don't want to kneel on that floor, slippery with snowmelt, and risk being pushed hard enough to lose my base. I extended one leg and pulled him sideways and toward me.

The advantage of the position is that the soles of both feet were firmly on the floor and the extended foot can be repositioned to accomodate the changes in force. I couldn't use a gwai mah / kneeling horse to trap a leg because he lunged forward and his legs were beyond reach. I've had kneeling leg traps go bad on me twice and know that they work fine if you intend to continue with deadly force, but not so good for holding someone down. In this case the drop stance worked well as a sprawl.

This may not apply to the conditions of your question. There was no real stress. No adrenaline. The guy was drunk. I had backup. And I've never used it in sparring.

Be well.

jd

[karateguy]

I do not use it much.. I dont think a drop stance is applicable to a lot of situations.

[bawang]

pubu is used for dodging a hook
i dont know what else to day. thats what its used for. its same as weaving in boxing

[dimethylsea]

My inquiry is; How often do/have YOU employ(ed) a drop stance in resistance fighting, specifically full contact. Also, in what situation, if any, have you utilized the drop stance, ie; grappling/sweeping/takedown etc?

I personally have not trained in Shuai Jiao, yet I have seen the drop stance used in Shuai Jiao matches.
.

I've pulled off a Gao Bagua Snake throw while doing gi before. "Snake" change uses drop stance. Judo guys usually call this throw Tai Otoshi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IpweRu1KB0

I do not know, nor have a managed, to use this "drop stance" as a striking move. But it feels great for the body (stretching and jibengong) and is good for throwing.

[Ray Pina]

If it's what I think you're talking about, I use it all the time.

Lets say we're both in tight and punched out, we clinch. You get the under hook.... right away I know that's not good for me, I drop my weight on your shoulder. This resists the lifting and guiding leverage you have and tries to get you to your knees. In wrestling they wall it a wizzard.

What I use much more is a general changing of levels. The guy is good. Maybe I can get him to close up with one or two shots but nothing lands, he back out.

Or, he's coming in aggressive and I can't stop his striking. They keep landing.

Either case, I'll drop levels and shoot.

In the first case I throw a shot or two to his face to keep him occupied and defensive and come take him down.

In the second, he's so stoked on treating my head like a pinata that I get under the barrage, get under him, and take him down.

Changing levels will open up a whole new game. You can start working some strong leads to the body. Fake the low change in level and kick the guy bracing for the shoot.

[SPJ]

if you are not into throwing the opponent to his side

you may use the stance to enter into a going upward strike.

yes, you may turn several leg sweeps, too.

actually, this is a hallmark of shaolin fist

there always leg sweeps and using one's hand to grabb sands in drop stance and then throw into the opponent's eyes.

usually, if the opponent is too fast and too strong at top level, we drop instantly to avoid and attack his low level.

--

in mantis, there is an intermediate stance, which is one leg kneeling down, and the other leg is bow stance, it is called kirin stance. we may attack mid level.

--

I mean drop stance is used a lot in just about all the styles.

:)

[Laukarbo]

its a good excersize to strengthening ur legs,good for mobility,for sweeps and take downs in combat the stance will be higher in the form its lower... thats out of a hung kuen perspective..imo its not really a stance but a transition

[Lucas]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. This is kind of what i was looking at. like all stances, this is good for the training of the body, strength flexability mobility. in application, from my experience, grappling is where this position/movement/transition/stance/alloftheabove shines most, imo/ime. evasion/positioning coming up second.

of course the applications are vast. like anything. though from what ive seen and experienced, under stress and actual pressure, the applications we actually use on a regular basis are more narrowed, on average.

[Ray Pina]

A drill we do as part of warm ups is to jump as high as you can as fast as you can (knees to chin) and after the 10th one hold what would be close to a horse stance.... knees bent, ass down, hands out in front, bent at the elbow.

We do three sets of those.

[karateguy]

I am very familiar with that drill, we have done something very similar. it sucked in the beginning, but definitely conditioned us..

[goju]

your not supposed to use any of the stances to actually fight so assuming that a bit rediculous
stances are just used to build leg strength and teach you root and link one move to another in a kata

[shaolinexecutioner]

Like Jet Li said 'Good for taking a dump!'

[YouKnowWho]

You can drop into a "striking tiger" stance when your TKD friend give you a side kick to your head and make him looks like a fool.

If you

- pick someone up over your head,
- flip him upside down, and
- smash his head to the ground,

then what stance will you end with? You may end with a horse stance, but the "striking tiger" stance can get you much lower than the horse stance. The lower that you can drop, the more power that you can generate, and the deeper that your opponent's head will be pushed back into his neck.

It's also an excellent stance if you use one hand to hold on a tiger's head and use your other hand to beat it to death (that's how the name of this stance came from).

[Lucas]

Here is an example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuVhGKEIcxE) at the 2:30 mark.

[RenDaHai]

Frequently,

BE advised old kung fu forms are abstract. The stance trains an application but does not represent it exactly. Pu bu has many uses, since the introduction of Wushu all pu bu is done in the same way, however in the old times there are several variations.

The most notable is sitting pu bu with the front foot with the heel on the ground but the foot pointing upwards. This version drops much faster and requires less flexibility. It is used for example when capturing someones arms and pulling them downwards. Also used in ducking while advancing (it is much lower than regular pu bu). Here is a video of someone using it in a form:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XOTI2NDYxODg=.html

YOu will find in ducking and evasion you use Pu bu frequently you just don't think of it that way as you don't go so low. As i say the forms are abstract, the stance trains the evasion but does not always represent it.

Also as an offensive technique, You can use it to kick at someones knee or at their instep. The more you bend your standing leg, the longer the range of the low kick, making it more effective than kicking while standing. Also the low stance can be use with the goal of your foot hooking their foot in an effort to capture them. For all these stances you don't need to go all that low, but as i say the forms are stylized that is part of the culture and makes for better training.