so why does the upside down fire represent "control"?

[Cappadonna]

isn't there a character for the word control?

or is it "symbolic"..you know, putting the fire sign upside down to show that you control the fire...or something like that?

[hskwarrior]

couldn't a bucket and some water be a better way?

[Cappadonna]

soo...no one?

[Lucas]

reference? who does that represent control for? is it something you see on road signs or is it a philisophical thing or some sort of cultural reference?

[Cappadonna]

at my school (wah lum) there is an altar with the fire sign shown upside down

http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=http://images.travelpod.com/users/luz-angela/thumbnail.large.3.1208367420.wah-lum-altar.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGJw4gR8swWS7OiRC5DcNXnEqEe0w

[Lucas]

ahhhh, i see what you mean now. hmm, dunno :o

[SPJ]

did somebody said fire.

here comes the dragon to hose the fire off and save a dude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emXw0pgrrlY&feature=related

:cool:

[TenTigers]

I believe it means self-control, self-discipline, patience, as fire is just the opposite, a person being "fiery."

[Scott R. Brown]

It is probably something as simple as the original artist was dyslexic or perhaps when he gave the calligraphy to someone they were illiterate and accidentally turned it upside down!

[uki]

probably something along the lines of inverting the american flag as a signal of distress... fire is all consuming and difficult to control if it rages, so naturally inverting this concept and you will have controlled(contained) it. :)

[KC Elbows]

Um, I've not seen that, guan is one word for control, but it isn't that character. There are undoubtedly lots more words for it, but flipping it upside down? I've not seen that. Maybe a native speaker will come on and help.

[KC Elbows]

It is probably something as simple as the original artist was dyslexic or perhaps when he gave the calligraphy to someone they were illiterate and accidentally turned it upside down!

Are we talking about the DMV?:D

[Cappadonna]

I believe it means self-control, self-discipline, patience, as fire is just the opposite, a person being "fiery."

i believe the same.

i'll ask my Sifu

[David Jamieson]

It is important to remember that esoteric practices will apply symbols in their own rite and according to their own cosmology.

IE: upside down fire ideogram or symbol may mean one thing in your reckoning and may be 1000x removed from that meaning somewhere else.

If you are talking about symbology specific to the art you are studying or to your school, then it is best to ask your teacher who put the symbols there in the first place.

With Chinese martial arts, there is not a whole lot of global crossover in areas like this.

Oh sure, we have altars, we have lion dance, we have kuen/sets, we have methods and so on, But you're pretty much guaranteed that beyond the most basic concepts, each and every school is quite different both in curriculum and in cosmology concerning meaning applied to symbols.

[yu shan]

page 26 from the Wah Lum Members Handbook:

What does the upside-down "fire" sign in the middle of the altar mean?

Control, patience, cool.

[Cappadonna]

well yes i know that yu shan...i was asking WHY it meant that

[Tainan Mantis]

Upside down fire character.
When I first traveled to Taiwan in 1989 I asked lay people and MArtists alike about the upside down fire symbol.

Besides the Wah Lum school I have never seen another school or cutom that uses it.

Chinese does have the characteristic of using upside down charaters, just have never seen fire.

In Taiwan I have had the chance to look at many hundreds of alters, there are many varieties, bust still haven~t seen upside down fire.

[CFT]

I'm sure I've seen pictures of altars at Bak Mei schools with the upside down "fire" character.

[SanHeChuan]

We have it in our Seven Star Mantis schools, but both my sifu and sigung both trained wah lum Mantis aswell at some point.