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uki
09-27-2009, 03:00 AM
i thought this was interestingly related to the forums here... i suppose the real meat of the matter is that the catholic church is fearful of this "non-existent life energy" aka prana, chi, qi, and so forth...


Today, the Boston Globe reports that Catholic hospitals are banning the use of reiki, the practice of waving one's hands over a patient in the hopes of magically channeling a nonexistent "life energy" in order to promote healing. How nutty is this practice, exactly? Well, the Catholic Church officially believes in ghosts, zombies, multiplying dinner rolls, and crackers that are people, but even they're too savvy for this stuff.

The article presents a great example of "false balance," the journalistic practice of giving column inches to kooky ideas that aren't supported by the evidence, under the guise of presenting all viewpoints on an issue. The bulk of the Globe article is devoted to describing reiki as a system of healing that is "enjoying increasing popularity in the United States," which is only true in that yes, more people are doing it lately and yes, it "heals" in exactly the same way the placebo effect can seem to "heal."

On the pro-reiki side, the Globe quotes the following: Debbie Griseuk (reiki practitioner), Linda M. LaFlamme (executive director of the International Association of Reiki Professionals [IARPWTF]), and Kay Murphy (knee surgery patient who says it helped). On the anti-reiki side, they quote: a Catholic Bishop. The "der, I dunno" opinion comes from the director of the Benson-Henry Institute for Mind Body Medicine at MGH, a department that tragically appears to be short one hyphen and one informed opinion. The director's exact quotes are pretty valid, suggesting that it's probably the placebo effect, but the article seems to try to make his position seem less sure, with lines like, "With reiki, he says, the question remains: Is it based in science or the placebo effect?"

So what's missing here? The actual science!

The article's opposing view of reiki comes in the form of a bishop who mentions the fact that reiki isn't valid but concentrates more on his opinion that faith in reiki is at odds with faith in the Catholic god. It's common among Christian religions to oppose new age spirituality as a false religion, so it's no surprise that the Catholic Church has made the decision to ban reiki. And it is the correct decision, but not for that reason.

Discontinuing the practice of offering reiki in hospitals is the right move because reiki is pure, unadulterated pseudoscience with absolutely no scientific evidence to support it. Plus, while the article states that reiki is meant to supplement actual medical treatment, many people use it to replace the science-based medicine they need, like Debbie Harrison, an energy healing proponent who died of untreated diabetes in 2005. (Plenty more examples can be found here.)

One is moved to contemplate why the Globe is just now reporting on the ban of reiki several months after it was put in place, and why the Globe reporter chose to ignore the dangers of reiki in lieu of giving the practitioners a chance to peddle their pseudoscience.

Maybe we can ask about that today during the live chat with the aforementioned reiki practitioner Debbie Griseuk herself. We might also ask her about her final quote in the article: "Galileo was denounced by the Catholic Church. I don’t mind being in his company." We wonder if she has any idea who Galileo was and what that crazy stuff he was doing called "science."

now that was a pot stirrer...

source (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw)

SPJ
09-27-2009, 04:42 AM
both qi and blood circulate or flow in the body.

they nurture and support life.

the real beef is that life must come from life.

so it is not "created". or life may not come from non life.

origin of life.

creation vs revolution.

God created life of all forms.

or random chance of water and lightening bonding molecules and life is formed.

--

what is for dinner

beef.

--

where did life come from?

created by a super being or supreme being

or life is there since the begining,

--

then

where did God come from?

if we are created by god.

1. who created God?

2. if we create life then we are gods, too.

---

what are the answers from the church of god???

:confused:

uki
09-27-2009, 04:49 AM
and here i thought that my boss was a a confusing person... :p

David Jamieson
09-27-2009, 06:34 AM
meh, who cares what the catholic church thinks anymore anyway?

go elsewhere for reiki. It's not like they're gonna burn you at the stake for it.

lol

Ray Pina
09-27-2009, 04:06 PM
True. And fu(k the church.

God lives.

taai gihk yahn
09-27-2009, 04:16 PM
i thought this was interestingly related to the forums here... i suppose the real meat of the matter is that the catholic church is fearful of this "non-existent life energy" aka prana, chi, qi, and so forth...


now that was a pot stirrer...

source (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw)

an uncharacteristically very well-reasoned article: the point being that while Reiki has no place in the realm of relatively objective medical treatment, the decision on the part of the Catholic Church to ban it was not because it's poor standing from an EBM perspective, and not because it deals with "supernatural" phenomena, but because it conflicts with Catholic Doctrine about such phenomena - I mean, Catholicism contains within it formulae and ritual for conducting exorcisms, a distinctly non-scientific venture; indeed, the very nature of belief in "God" conflicts with scientific rationalism (and intelligent human thought for that matter, but I digress...);

Catholic health-care is a cluster-fu(k paradox - they will supersede the right of a patient to choose certain types of medical care (e.g. - DNC, BTL) if it conflicts with Doctrine; that's just BS; medicine should be free from any sort of religious oversight - otherwise it's discriminatory; of course, the Catholic Church has the legal right to engage in this, because their institutions are technically private; but it's still ethically BS, IMPO;

David Jamieson
09-28-2009, 01:01 PM
I wonder how the Catholic church feels about prostate examinations?

is that an abomination?

sanjuro_ronin
09-28-2009, 01:05 PM
an uncharacteristically very well-reasoned article: the point being that while Reiki has no place in the realm of relatively objective medical treatment, the decision on the part of the Catholic Church to ban it was not because it's poor standing from an EBM perspective, and not because it deals with "supernatural" phenomena, but because it conflicts with Catholic Doctrine about such phenomena - I mean, Catholicism contains within it formulae and ritual for conducting exorcisms, a distinctly non-scientific venture; indeed, the very nature of belief in "God" conflicts with scientific rationalism (and intelligent human thought for that matter, but I digress...);

Catholic health-care is a cluster-fu(k paradox - they will supersede the right of a patient to choose certain types of medical care (e.g. - DNC, BTL) if it conflicts with Doctrine; that's just BS; medicine should be free from any sort of religious oversight - otherwise it's discriminatory; of course, the Catholic Church has the legal right to engage in this, because their institutions are technically private; but it's still ethically BS, IMPO;

I can see it doing that, they view Qi as spiritual energy and any use of it or any manipulation of it is forbidden, outside what is biblically allowed ie: exorcisims, healing, prophecy, etc.

Boston Bagua
09-28-2009, 01:08 PM
I always thought if the church cannot profit from it, or control it then they want it banned.

sanjuro_ronin
09-28-2009, 01:11 PM
I always thought if the church cannot profit from it, or control it then they want it banned.

Nah, its not that, I am sure if they wanted to they could make a buck on it.

"Christian Spiritual energy cultivation exercises" ie: Taichi with a halo !
:D

David Jamieson
09-29-2009, 05:09 AM
They can't condone anyone who exhibits attributes that are similar or the same as their god.

If someone uses reiki to pull a lazarus, then the RC church will implode on itself.

I don't see that happening all too soon.
But the RC church might fall just under the weight of all those kids the preists have buggered over the years.

Oh, and the lies and deceptions aren't helping them either.

Or having a former Hitler youth for pope, that's not so good as well.

My, this is a pile of complaints we have here isn't it. lol

sanjuro_ronin
09-29-2009, 05:31 AM
They can't condone anyone who exhibits attributes that are similar or the same as their god.

If someone uses reiki to pull a lazarus, then the RC church will implode on itself.

I don't see that happening all too soon.
But the RC church might fall just under the weight of all those kids the preists have buggered over the years.

Oh, and the lies and deceptions aren't helping them either.

Or having a former Hitler youth for pope, that's not so good as well.

My, this is a pile of complaints we have here isn't it. lol

Funny thing is that scripture is against any sort of "organized central body" and the only heiraqhy is, for Christians: God- Jesus- the rest of us.
As for pulling a Lazarus, now that would be a neat trick !

Scott R. Brown
09-29-2009, 08:09 AM
Or having a former Hitler youth for pope, that's not so good as well.

In all fairness, he probably was not given the choice, and if he was, he was a kid and couldn't be held responsible for his ignorance.

lkfmdc
09-29-2009, 08:17 AM
In all fairness, he probably was not given the choice, and if he was, he was a kid and couldn't be held responsible for his ignorance.

but as an adult and member of the Church organization he certainly wrote enough articles and expressed enough opinions that it's fair to characterize him as a close minded, extremely conservative, reactionary weirdo

I mean, in all fairness :rolleyes:

lkfmdc
09-29-2009, 08:18 AM
PS: there were some "kids" who had enough moral conscience NOT to join the "crowd" and were willing to suffer for what they believed in

taai gihk yahn
09-29-2009, 09:38 AM
As for pulling a Lazarus, now that would be a neat trick !
Jesus said to Lazarus, come forth, but he came fifth and lost the job.
;)

lkfmdc
09-29-2009, 10:09 AM
Jesus said to Lazarus, come forth, but he came fifth and lost the job.
;)

even for you that was bad :mad:

taai gihk yahn
09-29-2009, 10:13 AM
even for you that was bad :mad:

actually, it was James Joyce! but thanks for the compliment :D

lkfmdc
09-29-2009, 10:18 AM
actually, it was James Joyce! but thanks for the compliment :D

plagarist! you didn't cite that, according to wiki policy.......

(have you seen what I did on wiki recently?)

Scott R. Brown
09-29-2009, 04:16 PM
but as an adult and member of the Church organization he certainly wrote enough articles and expressed enough opinions that it's fair to characterize him as a close minded, extremely conservative, reactionary weirdo

I mean, in all fairness :rolleyes:

Being "closed minded, extremely conservative and reactionary does not equal being a Nazi. Nazi's were National Socialists, that means they were from the Left politically, not the Right.......in all fariness!:rolleyes:

Some did and some didn't refuse. Most conformed, as they were told, in general, especially back in those days, and in Germany, children did what they were told.

My point is, that if all adults were held responsible for the foolishness of their childhood, we would all be in trouble.

Since you consider his writings closed minded, extremely conservative and reactionary, how about cite specifics and where he wrote the opinion, in all fairness! :rolleyes: