Dit Da Jow for Makiwara Training

[Kevin73]

Would you use the same Jow as for Iron Palm or would you recommend using a jow like you would for iron body conditioning like for shins and forearms?

I want to incorporate PROPER makiwara training, not just the slam it into a big board and get big knuckles type that many people do.

Any help will be appreciated.

[Boston Bagua]

Kevin,

You can use the same jow if you are interested in proper hand training without disfigurement.

Let me know if I can help.

I have been making and selling dit da jow and Iron Palm Jow for over 15 years.

[Kevin73]

Thanks.

I have looked around at various websites that sell jow and read MANY customer reviews. From what I can tell, you sell a VERY quality product and I will soon be purchasing from you.

Which type do you recommend starting with?

[Boston Bagua]

The Iron Palm medicine that I sell the most and get the most feedback about is the Chan Ning Tong Formula.

It is very powerful and will protect you from injury as well as help condition your bones.

Thank you for the kind words.

Let me know how I can be of service to you.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dale's is the good stuff Kevin, I have been using it for years and, outside the minor anatomical changes that can be felt from IP training, my hands are great, no issues whatsoever and I use NO GLOVES with my bag work and I drill my wooden dummy and makiwara with more than average force.

[goju]

my uncle uses plum dragon herbs southern first dit da jow and it suppose to work the whole body works real good for him too but i guess certain formulas concentrate on certain areas better

im likely gonna try some of dales stuff soon since it sounds so d amn good:D
would you recomend the same jow for shin toughening and forearm toughening dale?

[Boston Bagua]

The tiger exits the forest is a great jow that has a lot of pain killing as well as bone strengthening herbs in it. It is a great conditioning jow as well as good for injuries. It is not an Iron Palm medicine. Different herbs to do different things.

The reason there are many jows is that there are formulas for the upper body, lower body, middle body, hands only, feet only, internal only, external only.

There is NO one universal jow, if anyone tries to sell that to you, they have no idea what they are talking about.

Hence I make and sell different jows.

I too have a southern jow that is called Hakka Iron Claw that is great for anything other than advanced Iron Palm training.

Let me know how I can be of service to you.

[Kevin73]

So would you recommend "Tiger exits the Forest" for makiwara training and forearm training?

Then the Chan Ning Tong for Iron Palm?

[Boston Bagua]

Kevin,

If you want to train your hands whether with Makiwara or Iron Palm use the Chan Ning Tong formula.

For conditioning arms, legs, and shins other than hands, then you can use the Tiger Exits the Forest.

[Kevin73]

Ok, thanks. I just wanted to be sure before placing the order.

[PlumDragon]

For conditioning things like the knuckles on Makiwara, I tend to prefer an iron palm jow that is very heavy on the blood invigorators. It does kind of depend though on how your makiwara is designed: If you use small thread that create a flat smooth surface (like an iron palm bag) then it becomes a more iron-palm like drill. If your thread is thicker and has more definition, then it can provide more of a point-contact surface (like doing direct iron palm, ie no bag). I find that the best liniment will vary depending on which of these 2 situations you are in.

With that said, I am mostly in concurrence with brother Dale (Hope all is well. Havent talked in a while, I owe you a call...), Chan Ning Tong would be a good way to go, as it has some good herbs to benefit the joints. I dont however, personally find it particularly useful for the redness that you might develop training the knuckles with a more point-contact based surface, so you might consider using Chan Ning Tong as a pre-training liniment and something more injury-based for a post-training liniment.

Your mileage might vary, so play around with a few things, find what works best for you. Not everyone prefers the same thing...

[Lee Chiang Po]

Corn Husker's Lotion works really good on knuckles and whatever. Glycerine based instead of alcohol, And it works wonders. I wrapped my makawara with burlap sacking, and used a cinder block with a couple layers of burlap for hand conditioning. My hands are real hammers, but they don't look like it because I used the Corn Husker's.

[goju]

ive been punching the makiwara for five years now with out any dit da jow and my knuckles look like this

i kind of like them to look like this it makes me look tough lol!!!!!

[Boston Bagua]

Goju,

not using medicine will cause issues later in life.

this is something you really have to think about.

No one thinks about it when they are young.

But you WILL suffer in your later years.

Funny, that all the older Okinawan Uechi Masters I met all use dit da jow when they train. I had one Master show me the herbs that we found where we were training and he showed us what ones would be good for bruise medicine.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Goju,

not using medicine will cause issues later in life.

this is something you really have to think about.

No one thinks about it when they are young.

But you WILL suffer in your later years.

Funny, that all the older Okinawan Uechi Masters I met all use dit da jow when they train. I had one Master show me the herbs that we found where we were training and he showed us what ones would be good for bruise medicine.

Dale has spoken and iron palmed the correct !

[goju]

Goju,

not using medicine will cause issues later in life.

this is something you really have to think about.

No one thinks about it when they are young.

But you WILL suffer in your later years.

Funny, that all the older Okinawan Uechi Masters I met all use dit da jow when they train. I had one Master show me the herbs that we found where we were training and he showed us what ones would be good for bruise medicine.


was that the same as the"uechi grass" they use or other herbs:)

[Kevin73]

Goju,

not using medicine will cause issues later in life.

this is something you really have to think about.

No one thinks about it when they are young.

But you WILL suffer in your later years.

Funny, that all the older Okinawan Uechi Masters I met all use dit da jow when they train. I had one Master show me the herbs that we found where we were training and he showed us what ones would be good for bruise medicine.

I agree with this. I have seen many videos posted of Morio Higaonna hitting rocks with his hand along with his makiwara training. What is often not mentioned or shown is that Morio went to China to trace the roots of Goju-Ryu and learned herbal remedies and uses a jow to go along with his hand conditioning.

[Kevin73]

Also, and odd question.

Do you ever warm the jow when applying it, or just keep stored in a cool dry place?

[goju]

i know some who dont use it and dont report any damage(shrugs) maybe they are lucky but for safetys sake ill give it a go:D

did higaonna sensei say when he began using it? i know he was suppose to have started hitting the makiwara when he was around five i think so he may have had decades under his belt with makiwara training and no type of herbs and if so did he report any damage of his hands from not using jow?Or can dit da jow reverse damage one can get from training?

[Kevin73]

i know some who dont use it and dont report any damage(shrugs) maybe they are lucky but for safetys sake ill give it a go:D

did higaonna sensei say when he began using it? i know he was suppose to have started hitting the makiwara when he was around five i think so he may have had decades under his belt with makiwara training and no type of herbs and if so did he report any damage of his hands from not using jow?Or can dit da jow reverse damage one can get from training?

Higaonna didn't start training until age 14 with his father in Shorin Ryu. He switched to Goju-ryu at age 16. Not sure if he started makiwara first thing, or if he adhered to tradition and did basic conditioning (knuckle push ups, etc) before starting makiwara.

Kanryo Higaonna, also learned herbal remedies while in China and taught those. So I am not really sure if Morio learned them as passed on through his lineage, or if he "rediscovered" it when he started his research. I don't have an exact date on when Morio started his research to trance the roots of Goju-Ryu or when he started using linaments in his conditioning training.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Morio Higaonna was already using Jow back in the mid 80's.

[Kevin73]

Morio Higaonna was already using Jow back in the mid 80's.

Correct, here is a clip from the "Way of the Warrior" (BBC Documentary) which was done in the early 80's. It shows Higaonna using Jow, and makes a comment that he met someone "several years" before that showed him the Jow. So it is safe to assume that Higaonna has been using it since about the mid 70's at least. So for at least the first 20 yrs of his training (give or take) he did not use it, and the last 30 or so years he has used it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44aMGGHj6Ec&feature=related