No more fighting, what now ??

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't wanna go into to much detail, its personal though some here now the reason, but I have been inactive from full contact fighting for over a year and just recently tried to go back to it about 3 months ago.
It didn't go well, LOL !
Rusty ol **** that I am, but the pro trainer thought I did great for the huge lay off I had and the fact that the guy I sparred was ranked #3 in N.America.
But then, as usual, crap happens.
About a 2 months ago I wake up with horrible headache, dizzy spells galore.
I move my head I am dizzy, I look down I am dizzy and not the nice dizzy either, a freaking vertigo dizzy that I have never felt before, even doing freaking HALO dives !!
I go to the emergency room and they suspect what it is and get some test to confirm, follow up MRI and such confirm the confirmation ( Because I have done full contact MA the specialist wanted to be sure that it wasn't more than the suspicion).

Basically, in our ear canals we have tiny little "crystals" and sometimes they get dislodged and that causes us to get dizzy.
You do some special moves and they, hopefully, fall back into place.

Well, great.

Problem is, every time I work out and do any sort of "violent" movement I get freaking dizzy and can hardly stand up.
Don't even go there about sparring.
So I go back to the doctor and he says that, "if it hurts when you do this, don;t do that".
:mad:
****ing common sense.

The issue is, according to the specialist, depending on the severity of this issue, I may never be able to spar hard again without complications, but I didn't hink that it would apply to actual HIT MA training.
Well it seems that heavy exertion can and in my case, does cause these "little crystals" to play havoc with my vertigo.
Its a freaky thing too, its not like the room spins, well, it does that, but worse is like it spins in a "whirpool" like pattern !


Just venting guys...

[goju]

you could allways learn this http://www.hikuta.net/
or perhaps shaolin do!







but dont worry your getting old you can still kick ass look a this guy
http://chinaonmeta.com/event-news/Guangzhou-8216-Kung-Fu-Master-8217-Fights-Young-Man-On-Bus.html:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Serious thread Goju, please.

[goju]

fine dont take my advice then:D

[Lucas]

wow that sucks bro.

Is it something that can stabalize with time, or is this something that may progressively get worse?

[TenTigers]

eventually, just like people who live with injuries, limitations, etc, I think you will go into another phase of your training. Start looking deeper into the internal, and you will eventually find an art that contains such deep subtleties, that it will be just as intense, but on a completely different level, and you will continue to increase your skill. (probably not Bagua, though ;-) You seem to enjoy Jook Lum, perhaps you should delve deeper into the system. A nice FMA blade art is always fun, as is long range "varmint" shooting.
Is there an operation that would alleviate these symptoms?

[Pork Chop]

I'd take a good 6 months to a year and do something new.
Might want to look into hiking, mountain biking, or swimming - done at a leisurely pace of course.
Don't know what bodies of water are around you, but might want to look into sailing, fishing, or even hunting.

The important thing is to find a hobby that gets you out of the house, gets you active, and fills that void. But definitely look at it as something completely new and different; thinking of it as exercise that you can only half-ass will probably encourage you to fall into bad habits.

I had retinal damage in 05, wasn't supposed to spar again, was supposed to mean permanent scarring and vision loss - no hope of ever being able to even get lasik vision correction.
Just had my eyes checked out this year and last year, no signs of scarring or permanent damage - even after telling the Doc what to look for (different eye doc than one that diagnosed me).
The human body is amazingly resilient - but you have to let it get there.

Think of this time as a sabbatical.
6 months to a year, more if necessary, your body may just fix itself.
Don't give up hope completely.

Sorry to hear about it man...

[Vajramusti]

Thanks for sharing.As you know the ear mechanism has much to do with balance.Perhaps, going back to the drawing board, gradually doing balancing exercises-yoga and such- can help restore activity and allow you to compensate.
Did you have some concussions in the past?
Regards, joy chaudhuri

[Oso]

that sucks...i've been inactive since may due to closing my school and inactive in my own training since Late Feb/March due to chronic hip pain.

i dunno what to suggest, still trying to figure out if I'm gonna get back in at all and at what level...tis a conundrum it is.

as a mountain biker, I can say you can indeed get into that serious like and it's a blast. kinda 'spensive start up and you can fall and hit your head of course...but, i ride very conservatively and don't fall often.

i jumped in to crossfit but you surely have your own program...

and there is always teaching...naw, forget i EVER said that...

one part of me says 'if i can't go as hard as I want to then what's the point of doing it at all' ...we all know that's kinda stupid but for anyone that has done anything for a long time at a high level of effort, it's a very deep and real feeling.

and another part is definitely lost just thinking about NOT training because it's been THE major facet of my life for 27 years.

i know that i really don't every want to say 'I used to be a martial artist' much less 'yea, i trained and taught for 27 years and then just quit'

soooo. take some time like I am, don't push it away forever, get some perspective and then see where you are a few months down the road.

[taai gihk yahn]

go look up your old osteopath bouncer buddy from Zanzibar - he may have something of benefit to offer you...or go down to the Canadian College of Osteopathy on Duncan Street and for a referral one of the profs for some treatment (Jean-Guy Sicotte, DO would be a first choice, but he may not be local; there are some others, I can get you names if you want)

[kwaichang]

After the stones have been put into place , and there is an absence of vertigo Pm Me I am aware of some things you can do to stabilise your problem . It is a long road but you can over come it. I know some people you may call, Vestibular problems are difficult to deal with but I have a friend who did this sort of training and went on to become a great Full Contact fighter it takes time and patience though. KC

[David Jamieson]

Time to explore the world of qigong and deep meditation.

You'll get more out of those than you ever did get out of any of the physical contact stuff anyway! :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

eventually, just like people who live with injuries, limitations, etc, I think you will go into another phase of your training. Start looking deeper into the internal, and you will eventually find an art that contains such deep subtleties, that it will be just as intense, but on a completely different level, and you will continue to increase your skill. (probably not Bagua, though ;-) You seem to enjoy Jook Lum, perhaps you should delve deeper into the system. A nice FMA blade art is always fun, as is long range "varmint" shooting.
Is there an operation that would alleviate these symptoms?

As it is right now, even bag work can bring on the vertigo and headaches, and sudden sharp movement does that.
Sucks the perverbial ass.
The forms aren't a problem, the Sarm bo Gin the Tit sid kuen and such are fine, but the "fa jing" exercisise tend to do it too.
Very frustrating bro...
Nope, no operation is available, time will heal it or not, docs don't know.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Thanks for sharing.As you know the ear mechanism has much to do with balance.Perhaps, going back to the drawing board, gradually doing balancing exercises-yoga and such- can help restore activity and allow you to compensate.
Did you have some concussions in the past?
Regards, joy chaudhuri

Yeah, a couple, but the MRI shows no issues in that regards, it was one of the first things they looked for.

[sanjuro_ronin]

go look up your old osteopath bouncer buddy from Zanzibar - he may have something of benefit to offer you...or go down to the Canadian College of Osteopathy on Duncan Street and for a referral one of the profs for some treatment (Jean-Guy Sicotte, DO would be a first choice, but he may not be local; there are some others, I can get you names if you want)

I am in touch with a good physio gut, he fixed my shoulder tendonitus/impingment a while back.
There are some exercises and manipulations we are doing, keeping my fingers crossed.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Time to explore the world of qigong and deep meditation.

You'll get more out of those than you ever did get out of any of the physical contact stuff anyway! :)

Yeah, I have contemplated on focusing more on the Iron wire then I have as of late, maybe adding the Iron vest program...

[sanjuro_ronin]

The other thing to is, at this stage, even "over exerting" myself, as happens with typical HIIT stuff or some serious ground rolling ( Judo throws are a definite NO), the vertigo sets in too, I hope that is just because the condition is still "fresh".

[taai gihk yahn]

I am in touch with a good physio gut, he fixed my shoulder tendonitus/impingment a while back.
There are some exercises and manipulations we are doing, keeping my fingers crossed.

all good, but an osteo will specifically look at the cranial piece, and to do that appropriately, you need someone well trained if you are going to get any benefit from it (meaning someone who has gone through years of quality training, not taken a few weekend courses);

there is another area of vestibular PT treatment, which involves head positioning and repetitive head movements (turning side to side, e.g.) while lying, standing, walking, etc; all good stuff, but again, you need to see someone specifically trained in this approach

[sanjuro_ronin]

all good, but an osteo will specifically look at the cranial piece, and to do that appropriately, you need someone well trained if you are going to get any benefit from it (meaning someone who has gone through years of quality training, not taken a few weekend courses);

there is another area of vestibular PT treatment, which involves head positioning and repetitive head movements (turning side to side, e.g.) while lying, standing, walking, etc; all good stuff, but again, you need to see someone specifically trained in this approach

That PT treatment you mention is exactly what we do, may I ask what an osteo guy would do differently?
I will suggest it to me GP, I have both private and public health care so I am covered regardless.

[chusauli]

Try seeing a licensed acupuncturist in your area.

Where are you? I may be able to recommend one in your area.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Try seeing a licensed acupuncturist in your area.

Where are you? I may be able to recommend one in your area.

I know one that did a great job on my shoulder, good point ( pardon the pun).

[chusauli]

I know several in Toronto.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I know several in Toronto.

Please feel free to PM at your convenience !
I am in Brampton/ Mississauga area.

[IronWeasel]

I feel for you, man. Setbacks like this can be depressing when you're not sure when or if you're going to recover.

I was pretty bummed out with my spine surgery, but I'm almost back (85%)!!

The two people that I've known who had vertigo like that said that it came on suddenly..kinda like yours. It lasted a long time, like 6 months until it started to fade a little. It didn't completely go away for a year for both of them.

So, there's some light at the end of the tunnel...

As far as training...just keep doing what you can, so that after 6 months or a year, you are still closer to tip top shape, than if you had taken a whole year off.

Perfect time for Iron Vest.:)


Good luck.

Get well.

Keep postin'!

[Lee Chiang Po]

I think I would start looking for other things to do rather than look for ways to keep getting my head beat on. Have you ever heard the term, Punch Drunk? It happens to a lot of people that train in boxing gyms and such. Sparring and beating on the heavy bag. Impact injury. It is a perminent injury and you really do need to think about doing something else. And I would recommend to others that you should not abuse yourself by letting others hit your head. If you have to defend yourself that is one thing, but putting yourself into this situation is beyond me. This can get worse. It could be something you would have to live with on a constant day to day basis. You guys have to know that getting hit in the head can not be good for you, right? Another single lick to the head could mean watching the room spin for the rest of your natural life. Unless maybe they remove the inner ear and leave you deaf. And I don't know that that would help.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think I would start looking for other things to do rather than look for ways to keep getting my head beat on. Have you ever heard the term, Punch Drunk? It happens to a lot of people that train in boxing gyms and such. Sparring and beating on the heavy bag. Impact injury. It is a perminent injury and you really do need to think about doing something else. And I would recommend to others that you should not abuse yourself by letting others hit your head. If you have to defend yourself that is one thing, but putting yourself into this situation is beyond me. This can get worse. It could be something you would have to live with on a constant day to day basis. You guys have to know that getting hit in the head can not be good for you, right? Another single lick to the head could mean watching the room spin for the rest of your natural life. Unless maybe they remove the inner ear and leave you deaf. And I don't know that that would help.

My MRI was clean, no issues whatsoever of "punch drunkeness".

[KC Elbows]

Man, really sorry to hear that. And to think, I've been whining about my knee limiting my sparring activities this year.

Hopefully, you have some training partners willing to limit contact activities to a level you can manage. I can't imagine causing this vertigo response helps, so it may be that you'll end up with a long time to work set-ups and economy of motion, in the sense of absolutely not moving when you don't need to as opposed to moving a lot efficiently, but not be able to partner up for full executions. As for strikes, that would be hard, losing bag time and all, but sometimes having to be limited makes us old guys more dangerous than those who don't know their limits.

For me, when I get together with my training partners, we do 12 rounds of basically trying to efficiently secure throws on each other, but, because of my knee, whoever pairs with me is limited to both of us standing fixed a la tuishou with control and no carry through. It has actually helped my clinch work to be so cautious of my knee, and has certainly helped my chin na ability like nothing else has, as it is vital for me to, at least momentarily, stop the other guy. I miss unfixed movement and strikes being integrated, but once they are back in, I will be a far better fighter than I was last I used them in sparring.

I guess my point is that it's not about doing what you did before and losing that, but finding out what someone with your experience and knowledge can figure out to accommodate this current situation and still be able to enjoy what you do. Even if the level of contact drops to that of a stereotypical yang style tuishou, it will be you doing it, not some tai chi hippy with no thought of the reality of their practice, and so you will likely still be able to benefit, especially if it is so that you can functionally become a different kind of fighter until the need to be that fighter no longer exists, at which point you will have an even broader knowledge of fighting.

You are at a level where minor gains to you are years away from the less experienced, so slow growth is fine, the injury sucks, it has limited what you can do and to pretend otherwise is asking for further injury, but it sounds like you have a good opportunity to hone smaller and subtler things that keep your core stable and require less large turns, new or refined approaches that may replace what you have to avoid doing.

Just my thoughts, hope that helps.:)

[MightyB]

Ever think about coaching?

I know it's not the same- but it can be really exciting and fun to do even if you just take on one up and coming fighter.

[David Jamieson]

Ever think about coaching?

I know it's not the same- but it can be really exciting and fun to do even if you just take on one up and coming fighter.

Or how about just dropping by and training gongs with another forum member? lol

pm me for my number. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ever think about coaching?

I know it's not the same- but it can be really exciting and fun to do even if you just take on one up and coming fighter.

I retired from teaching and competition to focus on my wife and kids, they deserve my undivided attention.
While I still train everyday, or as much as I can, I will never let my MA be more demanding of my time than my family.
I don't do anything half assed and to coach I would have to devote more time than I am willing to at this point.
Besides, I am still working on some stuff ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Or how about just dropping by and training gongs with another forum member? lol

pm me for my number. :)

Thanks brother, I just don't have as much time as I wish I did.
I have a 1 hour window of training everyday...