Stretching hamstrings - no progress

[jago25_98]

I'm not getting anywhere with my hamstring flexibility.

Here's my post to a physio forum. It describes what I do. I only stretch in the morning at the moment. Will dedicating even more time to this help improve my flexibility or do I need to try something else? I'm on some mushroom supplement from a traditional chinese herb shop now, so we'll see if that works. However, is there anything you can recommend.

Here's what I do:


My age: 29

Everymorning I stretch my hamstrings and hipflexors. My ROM before I start is something like 1" off touching my toes with straight legs. When I finish I can get my knuckles flat on the floor, but I've never achieved better than this.
The problem is that when I wake up the next day I'm back to where I was before with what seems like no change at all!
I find that my left leg is A LOT worse than my right. It feels like a have a golf ball stuck 1" below the skin behind the superficial hamstring (the bit that is closest to the skin) and about 4 fingers down from where my butt cheek starts.

All this is frustrating because it costs me at least 1/2 in a day and if I don't do it I start to encourage back problems.

What more can I do to make progress? Is there more I can than stretching?


Here's how I stretch every morning:

I stretch my hipflexors down on one knee, only 1x40secs each side.

I then stretch my hamstrings. This is where I'm getting frustrated. Here's what I currently do:

- I might start this in the shower by heating the area and stretching by putting one leg up, stretching upwards and also activating it further by pulling down I do this for only 20secs on each side.
- I then go outside to stretch in the fresh air. Bizzarely I find fresh air and breathing help.
- I start with kicks into the air making sure I can feel the stretch in my hamstrings. I breath out on the stretch. I do 2x10 on each side
- I then stretch my hamstrings by putting one leg onto a box approx 1m high. I activate it by pushing down with my leg and stretch it was well. I bring my toes towards myself to stretch it more. I do this for at least 2 mins. I then switch to the other side. I then both sides again and again so I have done 2-3x2mins of stretching on each leg.
- at this stage I usually find that this hard stretching still isn't enough so I do the same thing but isolating towards the glutes I do 1x2mins on each leg
- I then try to touch my toes with straight legs and find I still can get my hands flat on the floor, but sometimes I can get my knuckles on the floor
- I then stretch standing up by pushing my bum out until I can get my knuckles on the floor
- I then start my day

[SergeTk]

Stretching one or 2 muscles won't get you much result.......... your hamstring connected to other muscles which if you don't stretch will slow your progress ......

I have a question for you. When you trying to touch the floor you not bending from your hips do you ??? You most likely have an arch in you lower/middle back ....??? ( I made this assumption since most people who can bend their upper body from the hip level wouldn't have a problem touching the floor without warmup)....

My suggestion for you is to go on youtube and take a look at elastic steel chanel ...http://www.youtube.com/user/Elasticsteel

[Scott R. Brown]

Most people are stiffest at the beginning of the day. This is because the inactivity of sleep causes the muscles and tendons to contract. The longer the inactivity the more they contract.

Light morning stretching helps a little bit, but in order for you to gain real benefits, it would be helpful to also stretch later in the day when your body is well warmed up from activity. Try stretching after work or even after your evening workout.

Add the sitting reach to your stretches too.

[taai gihk yahn]

meaning that, chronic hamstring tightness can be for lots of different reasons, because the postural system uses them as a catch-all method of dealing with a wide variety of issues in various places, from the foot, to the knee, to the hips, pelvis, low back, shoulders and, according to some methodologies, the head / neck complex!

let me preface this by saying that, not having directly examined you, I really have absolutely no way of knowing specifically why your HS are "tight"; that said, if, as you claim, you find that you are increasing your flexibility only to loose it the next day, there may be a reason that you are not addressing that causes this;

first off, it may be intrinsic - your system may just qualitatively not be as amenable to lengthening as someone else - this can be a connective tissue issue, or it may be a muscle tension issue, or both; whether or not anything can be done about that is anyone's guess; one thing I'd say, is that staying well hydrated may hep your situation in a very general sense, and given that most people are walking around dehydrated to varying degrees, increasing your level of hydration may make everything work better overall;

now, as to the HS specifically, let me give you a semi-hypothetical example (meaning that it's based on what I often see clinically "for real", but may not apply specifically in your case): let's say that you have had an episode involving injury to the low back, where you have bent over to pick up something relatively heavy, and as you straighten up, you feel a sharp pain in your low back;

one way of looking at this is to think about your hip flexors (HF; the iliopsoas being the main one): when you bent over to pick up the object, you put the HF on relative slack; when you powered up to standing, the HF were quickly lengthened / stretched; as a result, according to some thinking, you may have triggered a reflexive muscle guarding function, which is designed to prevent excessive lengthening, in order to prevent tearing at the end of a muscle's available range (this capacity is present in every muscle); therefore, the HF contracted reflexively, in order to limit their being lengthened excessively (BTW, there are other school's of thought about this, but this is the easiest to consider conceptually for non-clinicians, IMPE); as a result, you feel the pain associated with HF going into what amounts to a muscle spasm; and usually, this occurs asymmetrically, either only on one side or if both sides, more on one than the other

now, after this single event, the thinking is that having had this one episode, the muscle becomes "concerned" that this could happen again; so what happens is that the threashold for this guarding response is actually lowered; meaning that next time, you won't even have to move as far or as fast in order to trigger this effect; and so on, over time; and then you end up with chronically "tight" HF;

now, when HF's become chronically facilitated / "tight", the other, and this is important, one result is that the hip extenders (HE; gluteus maximus, primarily) will respond to this by becoming relatively hypotonic or lax, or "inhibited"; meaning that the function of glutes wil become reatively impaired in general;

so, how does this relate to HS? well, the HS muscles are long, multiple joint muscles; their primary function are to act as decelerators of the leg as it swings forwards during gait; meaning that they are very good at being on / off muscles and good at stopping the hip from going into too much flexion at the end of swing-phase; meaning that they are technically HE's, albeit it weak ones, and they do it best in a very context-specific manner; however, as HE's, they can do the same job gutes do, but just not as well; therefore, when glutes become relatively inhibited because the HF's become relatively faciitated, HS will then start to "take over" for glutes to some degree, and as such, HS wil start to become relatively overused / chronically tonic and therefore will start to become more faciitated themselves;

so now, if you go and start to passively "stretch" HS, what you run into is a postural system that is in conflict: on the one hand, HS are being told to be tight (usually more on one side than the other), to make up for the glutes that are inhibited, which in turn are responding to the HF's that are facilitated asymmetrically; OTOH, you are trying to counteract that programming by lengthening the HS, often in a static or non-weight bearing capacity; meaning that, temporarily the HS might loosen, but sooner or later are going to get tight again, because the postural system "needs" them that way in order to function in gravity / dynamically; and so one could stretch until the cows come home, but until the main issue is resolved (asymmetrically tight HF), it's not going to hold; and that can be one reason why someone can stretch without having any lasting change

now, bear in mind, that the above is a hypothetical, it is presented as simply one rationale for why one can stretch HS to no lasting effect; as a hypothetical, it is a bit of an artifact, meaning that in "real" life things can be more complex, bringing in a whole range of other issues in the body that may impact the situation, either positively or negatively; my point is to simply try to illustrate that there may be a reason you are not aware of that may need to be resolved - of course, I don't know your history, have not examined you, so there is no way I can really tell you what is going on; as such, you may want to look into finding someone who can work with you to identify and resolve any issues that may be impacting your ability to lengthen HS; of course, finding someone who can do so may be difficult - many PT's would just tell you to stretch more or stretch different, as opposed to tracking down the root of the issue, if it does indeed exist; OTOH, you may actually just be stretching "wrong", and might benefit from something like good quality yoga instruction (I would suggest an Iyengar certified instructor for best results); of course, you may also find answers working with a chiropractor, an acupuncturist / TCM practitioner, a Rolfer, an Athletic Trainer, a manually oriented osteopath, etc. - it's really often more about the skill of the individual practitioner as opposed to the background; the trick is finding someone good and not wasting your time / $; one thing would be, if you showed someone what I have written, and they go "yeah, sure, that makes sense", try them; if, however, they look at it like they have no idea what it means, move on...just a suggestion...

bottom line, you will have to explore this on your own - although you might get excellent advice in general here, it may not apply to your specific situation; good luck

[Lee Chiang Po]

Not being critical, just curious. What is the main purpose of stretching the tendons and hamstrings? I have thought about this some and it seems that possibly stretching tendons could weaken them? I stretch muscles before hard physical exercise so that blood can enter them more efficiently, or that is my purpose whether or not it really works. But, I have never considered stretching the tendons themselves. In my 20's I did stretch a heel tendon, and it hurt really bad and I was unable to walk on it for a very long time. In fact, where it stretched filled with fluid forming a ball in the tendon itself. It had to be drained to releave the pressure, thus relieving the pain. Is there no danger of this happening to yours?

[taai gihk yahn]

Not being critical, just curious. What is the main purpose of stretching the tendons and hamstrings? I have thought about this some and it seems that possibly stretching tendons could weaken them? I stretch muscles before hard physical exercise so that blood can enter them more efficiently, or that is my purpose whether or not it really works. But, I have never considered stretching the tendons themselves. In my 20's I did stretch a heel tendon, and it hurt really bad and I was unable to walk on it for a very long time. In fact, where it stretched filled with fluid forming a ball in the tendon itself. It had to be drained to releave the pressure, thus relieving the pain. Is there no danger of this happening to yours?

tendons are what attach the muscles to the bones; they are semi-contractile, having both elastic and contractile properties; as such, tendons are really not stretchable, as opposed to muscle belly contractile fibers (via detonification / "letting go" at the level of the sarcomere, the bits of the muscle fiber that grab onto each other during contraction) and non-contractile muscle belly connective tissue (via actual elongation of collagen fibers); the "goal" with tendons, in terms of optimizing their function, is as regards their recoil effect in response to a loading force: so during loading / "stretch" phase (as in what happens to the Achilles tendon when the heel hits the floor) the tendon absorbs kinetic energy; then during unloading / contractile phase (when you push off with the balls of the foot) it releases this energy; thus, the "goal" is to optimize this elastic recoil property, such as what happens during plyometric training;

static loading (as during a hanging HS stretch) therefore shouldn't have any impact on tendon length (that will be more muscle fiber detonification / collagen creep), nor should it weaken tendon; OTOH, overtraining quick-stretch activity could theoretically overload the tendon and result in minor to major trauma, from mild localized inflammation, or more significant such as what you describe above; of course, you can go all the way to tendon rupture (varying degrees of separation of the tendon from the muscle belly or tearing within the tendon itself) or an avulsion (tearing the tendon partially or completely off the bone, taking part of the bone with it);

so to answer the question, no, you don't really want to "stretch" tendons, that the chance of doing damage via static, passive stretching is pretty much non-existent, but that doing dynamic loading activities can impact tendons for better or for worse depending on intensity, duration, etc.

if you want more details, here is a very good summary on stretching (and it is written by a non-medical person, which goes to show you that anyone, putting in the time and effort to research the topic, can become just as knowledgeable in a given area as someone with formal training):
http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/docs/rec/stretching/stretching_1.html#SEC1

[karateguy]

though important, stretching should be a part of a regimen.. what type conditioning are you doing..

[jago25_98]

Thank you all for the replies. There's a lot to go through and think about :-)

taai gihk yahn: I would like to meet someone like you in person. How can I find such a person? A had a massage/some acupressure & cupping from a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner in Aberdeen on work a few weeks back; _very_ impressive generally but not so targetted. Someone from a martial arts or sporting background would be better next time. I live in in Bournemouth, UK, which is south of London.

I'd like to emphasise that the left leg is much worse than the right; sitting here right now I can feel a discomfort in my right leg hamstring, deep down (4 fingers down from butt cheek). I will stretch it in a moment to try to get rid of this but I know I won't get rid of it completely. It puzzles me why the problem isn't symmetrical.

I'm not a full time martial artist. I've done some JuJitsu and mixed arts but this hasn't been something I've done regularly for years now. This will be changing when I get back from work.

A brief history of my body:

• pretty average size as a kid, not very fit and I think was probably more inflexible than average in general
• 20 at uni, started putting on lots of weight so hit the gym and beefed up, making the beginner mistakes of not stretching properly. Tried out JuJitsu.
• half way through uni got back ache; saw physio who was useless but I was at least 6" off touching my toes straight legs not arching back, figured out on my own that it was rowing machine, bicycle and general inflexibility. As soon as I gave up the rowing machine and a lifting nightshift job I was fixed without needing to stretch hard (mistake)
• I then noticed that my shoulders had rounded forward due to pecs shortening. thought, pecs look crap with rounded shoulders so started working my back with pull ups and all sorts. Also started to love heavy squats. Beginning to stretch a little now though but not enough; somehow I didn't feel at all inflexible, perhaps because I was younger than 24
• built my back up nicely and rounded shoulders on the mend. No problem with inflexibility at this point.
• At 26 started a new job at sea. Went from going to the gym minimum 2 times a day to doing very little (being on a boat presents genuine challenges with changes in gravity and just a stationary bike for cardio, and an irregular lifestyle)
• At 27 shagged my brains out all summer and I swear it aged me 10 years...
• 28 this year: started looking at cardio seriously (which I hadn't done before!). Runs on the beach, surf as much as I can. Now have an awareness of not cumming so much. Started getting this inflexible feeling in my left hamstring about 4 months ago though.
• But now I'm not really doing any weights and I've lost the majority of muscle. I can run for an hour now, which I couldn't do before but that is due to learning to breath rather than cardio fitness I believe. I try to do at least 30mins a day cardio whereas before 15mins was my minimum and I wasn't sticking to it.
• I now do the stretches listed before, take cod liver oil and a multivitamin every day and 10mins QiGong - 5 mins warm up and then 3xreps aimed at the lungs (genetically my lungs need cleaner air than the average person)

Actions:

1) When I get back I'll start a attending a Shaolin class on fridays. Only reason I haven't done this before is because the guy I know who goes has a resting heart rate of 30 and I'm not happy at all with my fitness. I'm now going to go anyway and see what happens, just because the tutor may no doubt be a wealth of knowledge and a good environment to be in.

2) Here you can see a history of weight lifting and muscles wasting away. It's to this end that I've started doing lighter squats now, as an experiment to see if strengthening back to how they were might help.

3) I will start stretching in the evening. This will be harder to get into a habit of doing being in the evening. I will report back. (thanks Scott)

4) Will ask at the Shaolin lesson about tracking down someone to assess me. Someone decent.

5) Will add the sitting reach. Will do this in the evening.

6) having a look at elasticsteel when I get back to unblocked internet

7) will check out acupuncture when I get back

8) Yoga tuition too.

Questions:

• any QiGong I can do to clear a blockage in this area on the left side only? (worth a punt)
• SergeTk: yes can touch toes with arching back but can't with straight back when first get up in the morning. Used to be worse when I was 24 - was 6" off my toes with a straight back!
• karateGuy: Where can I learn about the relationship between flexibility and other types of fitness/health? What can I add that isn't flexibility training to help my flexibility?

Response to taai gihk:

• I think there is a level of intrinsicness to it because I remember inflexibility as a child. However, it's almost as if I can feel my body getting less flexible as it ages towards 30, and I won't accept that level of inflexibility because that would lead to knock on problems for sure, problems I can known before.
• I always keep hydrated. I'm tuned to this. Sometimes get dehydrated at night with the aircon on the boat and yes that does make it worse, but the problem is still there when kept hydrated
• regards hams responding to previous back injury that could be so. There wasn't a point where I had a major injury - I prevented that as I saw it coming. The tightness isn't symmetrical and I wonder if this is a clue
• perhaps if I've let my glutes weaken my hamstrings are taking over possibly. It is in a high area of the hams


It could just be that as the first time I've started stretching I'm just blown away by how slow it is. But that doesn't explain the asymmetry and the feeling like I got a gold ball stuck in my leg even as I sit here now.

[karateguy]

you really have to stretch as many times as possible.. And stretch your entire body.. try a warmup, then stretch....

Nothing will happen overnight

[SteveLau]

jago25_98,

Based on the info you have provided, it is strange to have such hamstring tightness. Yes, morning is not the best time to do deep stretch. Between 2 p.m. and 10 p.m. is the best time. Also, I suspect that you might have overdone in exercise volume. Do you have muscle soreness often? Lastly, please check if there is anything you do that is counter-productive to your muscle flexibility exercises at the same time.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong