xing yi quan help

[UK MONK]

hi, i need some info on xing yi quan. for instance= how old is it, where did it originate, what does it mean when translated into english, how many forms are in this style, and any sort of information on this would be really helpful.

p.s if there's any vids online or websites please post the links. thanks :)

[Tao Of The Fist]

That's a very broad question, and you should be able to find out most of it on your own. However, to simplify, Xingyiquan is:

An internal martial art, with the oldest legitimate history being in the 1600's, and is credited to Marshall Yue Fei (with little historical evidence). It is likely to have originated in Shanxi province.

Xingyi has four main forms: Five Elements Fist, Five Elements Linked Form, Twelve Animals, and Two Person Set, along with various weapons forms.

But please, do the research yourself! At least start out on Wikipedia and follow the sources links... I promise you, it's very easy to find info on xingyiquan

[UK MONK]

Thanks for the information. this will give me somewhere to start. i asked the forum because i thought it would be a lot more reputable than wikipedia.

[Ray Pina]

hsing-I is a great style. If you begin to study it, my advice is forget about the element and animal names and try to understand the objective of each form.... each one is used to either create space, lift, press or collapse. Hsing-I's specialty is power generation. It's wonderful to combine its mechanics with another system.

[jack]

hi, i need some info on xing yi quan. for instance= how old is it, where did it originate, what does it mean when translated into english, how many forms are in this style, and any sort of information on this would be really helpful.

p.s if there's any vids online or websites please post the links. thanks :)

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41393

Xing yi quan originated from ancient chinese spear fighting techniques. It transformed spear fighting into unarmed combat.

[chusauli]

In Xing Yi, first learn to stand properly. That will get you power. San Cai or San Ti is the key. Then learn each of the 5 element fists in detail. After that, you can learn the 12 animals easily. Most of the forms are repetitious and silly.

It doesn't take too long to learn everything, but just practice well.

[jack]

The San Cai or San Ti stance (三體式) looks kinda like a man holding a spear. :)

[KTS]

like is mentioned, the standing practice, that lovely brutal motionless exercise that our teachers make us do for 10+ minutes at a time is really the bread and butter of xingyi's foundation.

the structure you create from learning progressively finer points points of standing gets directly translated into your boxing and form work.

not many forms, just basic 5, a linking form, 12 animals, and some 2 person sets and weapons like staff or spear. practicing skills are more important than forms in xingyi.

it's quality makes up for it's lack of quantity. but u will find plenty of hidden elements in each movement that can keep you occupied for a long time.

find a teacher and check it out.

u asked for a clips, so..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld3ek8i9pT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BOl6zpaxK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIjaz5nckG4

im sure people can guess what school im from by the clips.

[Tao Of The Fist]

like is mentioned, the standing practice, that lovely brutal motionless exercise that our teachers make us do for 10+ minutes at a time is really the bread and butter of xingyi's foundation.

the structure you create from learning progressively finer points points of standing gets directly translated into your boxing and form work.

not many forms, just basic 5, a linking form, 12 animals, and some 2 person sets and weapons like staff or spear. practicing skills are more important than forms in xingyi.

it's quality makes up for it's lack of quantity. but u will find plenty of hidden elements in each movement that can keep you occupied for a long time.

find a teacher and check it out.

u asked for a clips, so..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld3ek8i9pT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BOl6zpaxK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIjaz5nckG4

im sure people can guess what school im from by the clips.

The beauty of Xingyiquan, of course, is it's simplicity in comparison to other styles. The whole combat essence is pretty much just to drive though your opponent.. However, never make the mistake of thinking simpler means easier. And yes, there is ALOT of standing practice, which is as tortuous as standing in an eskimo suit in Death Valley.. but it's all worth it.

[jack]

Indeed the standing practice & San Ti stance are as tortuous as standing in an eskimo suit in Death Valley.

But is there any way to replace them?

[dimethylsea]

Indeed the standing practice & San Ti stance are as tortuous as standing in an eskimo suit in Death Valley.

But is there any way to replace them?


There are ways to get around it sortof.. but what you make without them isn't xingyi :D

Kinda like.. "Can you make a cake without flour?"
"Well yes.. but then it's a torte!".

[jack]

There are ways to get around it sortof.. but what you make without them isn't xingyi :D

Kinda like.. "Can you make a cake without flour?"
"Well yes.. but then it's a torte!".

You can actually try replacing the standing practice & San Ti stance by the forward thrust spearing movement.

[dimethylsea]

But wouldn't that give you something more like Six Harmony Spear?

Again.. not that a flourless chocolate torte isn't mad tasty... but it's not a cake :D

Xingyi (hebei anyway) is all about standing. And holding piquan for umpteen breaths. Etc.

Again.. not that a spear thrust wouldn't make good martial arts... but would it have that xingyi flavor? I can't say as I think it would.

[Snake77]

IMO...Do yourself a favor and DO NOT skimp on San Ti. It is very important and the better your root and structure ecspecially with movement the better your xingyi will be.

:)

[Tao Of The Fist]

IMO...Do yourself a favor and DO NOT skimp on San Ti. It is very important and the better your root and structure ecspecially with movement the better your xingyi will be.

:)

San Ti and standing exercises are essential to the xingyi training, and actually to all of the internal martial arts. Your power should always come from your rooting in anything, which of course is what standing training prepares you for along with qi circulation. Yiquan (xingyi derivative) focuses extensively on this for that reason. :cool:

Oh, just a little tidbit of info for ya UK MONK: A simplified version of Xingyi was taught to soldiers during the Sino-Japanese War. This is significant in my opinion because it tells me a few things: One, it was easy enough to understand the basic concepts and apply them to REAL combat for the everyday soldier, and two, it didn't take a long time to learn because they didn't HAVE the time to learn complicated moves. In other words, :eek::eek:XINGYI IS BATTLE TESTED AND PROVEN TO WORK AND SIMPLE WORKS BEST.:eek::eek:

Tang Shou Tao founder Hong Yixiang and his teacher Zhang Junfeng taught Xingyiquan first out of the three neijia because they believed it taught the basics of IMA best, and takes less time to cultivate qi in and helps improve the bagua and taiji skills later.:confused:

[jack]

[QUOTE=Tao Of The Fist;963786]San Ti and standing exercises are essential to the xingyi training, and actually to all of the internal martial arts. Your power should always come from your rooting in anything, which of course is what standing training prepares you for along with qi circulation. Yiquan (xingyi derivative) focuses extensively on this for that reason. :cool:

i used to believe in that too. but after all these years of analysis, i start to have doubts on these theories.

if i told you, the 5 element fists were somehow related to stick fighting, would anyone believe me?

[Tao Of The Fist]

[QUOTE=Tao Of The Fist;963786]San Ti and standing exercises are essential to the xingyi training, and actually to all of the internal martial arts. Your power should always come from your rooting in anything, which of course is what standing training prepares you for along with qi circulation. Yiquan (xingyi derivative) focuses extensively on this for that reason. :cool:

i used to believe in that too. but after all these years of analysis, i start to have doubts on these theories.

if i told you, the 5 element fists were somehow related to stick fighting, would anyone believe me?

Actually, yes. Alot of people I know that do Xingyi also practice stick fighting, because the techniques easily translate. Dale Shigenaga of the Shen Lung Tang Shou Tao and my friend Randy Stroud in Tennesee teach escrima skills and knife training, for example. However, both still use the xingyi principles in their knife/stick fighting.

[KTS]

no, there is no way around the standing IME. it is taught for good reason. every xingyi form starts off with holding the santishi/pi chuan posture for at least a short time for a reason. the skills cultivated during this practice directly translate to how well you will be able to maintain and utilize root,structure, and internal and external coordinations while moving. one of the main goals is to develope a certain type of body structure that can be used with any other movement.

also, it is good to note that all other postures in xingyi may be held as well. but a definite focus is given to this base posture.

i definitely agree with snake77 - dont pass on it or take it lightly if training xingyi.


Tang Shou Tao founder Hong Yixiang and his teacher Zhang Junfeng taught Xingyiquan first out of the three neijia because they believed it taught the basics of IMA best, and takes less time to cultivate qi in and helps improve the bagua and taiji skills later.

sounds true enough. i believe hong actually made that the basis of his teachings, not sure if zhang did though. i would have to ask my teach on that, since he learned from hong.

but, anyways, yes, xingyi is definitely the easiest to gain a basic understanding of how power is used and focused in the so-called IMAs.

i do wonder though, sometimes, if people stop learning xingyi after 5 or so years because they think it is basic? because, though the movements appear simple enough, there can be a helluva lot going on if you have trained every aspect of the movement in detail.

so, i would say, sure, you can gain the basic ideas and concepts of power through xingyi perhaps quicker than taiji or bagua, but, there is also a lot more to xingyi. and anyone who does take the time to go over even the basics again and again will end up finding things that they can still train even after years of work.

[KTS]

Actually, yes. Alot of people I know that do Xingyi also practice stick fighting, because the techniques easily translate. Dale Shigenaga of the Shen Lung Tang Shou Tao and my friend Randy Stroud in Tennesee teach escrima skills and knife training, for example. However, both still use the xingyi principles in their knife/stick fighting.

sure, xingyi's principals can be used with any weapon as far as i know. many weapons do not require even much postural changes from the way the basic 5 fists are done. and the principals and forces generated are easily adapted to any circumstance with any.

[Foiling Fist]

Hsing-i was said to be founded on the principles of the spear by Ji Long Feng (1588-1662 AD), a former solider of the Ming Dynasty during the new Qing Dynasty. Ji Long Feng was well known for his skill with the long spear.

Hsing-i (Hsing-Yi, Xing Yi), has a number of weapons, most notable are Five Element Spear, and Five Element Saber. The Samurai Sword is base upon the Hsing-i 5 Element Saber.

Hsing-i is usually studied after Tai Chi.

You can see Jet Li doing Hsing-i, and Ba Gua while he is chains, in the movie The One.

The new book Axe Hand; Hsing-i & Internal Strength Workout gives a good foundation in San Ti Stance, and the Five Elements. Aids independent study with moving adjustments that allow you too feel your own center, root and Qi, as well as test it.

Energy cultivation with:
Five move Tai Chi form,
Standing Pole (Embrace the Moon or Hold the Ball)
shifting the water and rising-expanding/sinking-contracting;
Fore-arm Throw double set, dynamic drill, adjusting moving root,
responsive blocking enabling the same move for offence and defense,
center of Qi as it moves through oneself and
the center between two people;
Hsing-i San Ti: standing and moving for Qi and Fa Jing.

Hsing I Five Elements detailed with step by step photos, Twelve Animals steps written descriptions.

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/axe-hand-hsing-i-internal-strength-workout/15063347