View Full Version : ATTN Lee Chiang Po
Ray Pina
10-08-2009, 07:20 AM
Your comments are insulting to people who have dedicated themselves to study certain aspects of unarmed combat and take the risk to their health and ego to test their skills publicly against well-trained foes.
I'm not going to go back and forth with you. Boxing is a sport. Kick boxing is a sport. Fencing is a sport. Jiu-Jitsu is a sport.
A boxer is great with his fists and shows it. A kick boxer is great with his hands and feet and shows it. A fencer is great with the sword and shows it. A jiu-jitsu player is fantastic and flowing, throwing and locking .... and shows it.
All these "sport" types are competing openly on an international level. Why is it that we have no evidence, NONE, of any Kung Fu master applying his skill as openly? Why haven't any of these great masters compared with their modern boxer, MMA counterparts? I was just a CMA student for a decade, was impressed enough with what I learned to go compare. It's the only honest thing to do if you are serious as any master would be, right?
So instead wasting time insulting people who are pushing their craft, why don't you be the kung fu guy to dig us up some evidence. Go talk to the top internal masters, see if you can get them to fight. Find out what rules, if any, they would want to compare under. Then get back to me.
Pork Chop
10-08-2009, 10:37 AM
my muay thai coach is Laotian, lived in Thailand, and then moved here.
has a ton of stories of fighting bareknuckle for 15baht (less than 50 cents) , which was enough to feed his family at the time.
there was no insurance, lawsuits, or fear of going to jail at the time.
this idea that muay thai will just cease to function when you take it out of the ring is funny. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-juRPykpko&feature=player_embedded) is a video of a competition held in japan, basically mma stand up - any technique allowed short of gouging, biting, or groin shots - headbutting, elbows, and standing subs are fine. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPiJvEZryO0&feature=player_embedded) a second clip.
boxing has a similar history. combined with wrestling (as it was , it's d@mn near all you need in the street. night guardsmen used boxing & wrestling to throw down with street fighters for centuries.
the same goes savate as well - born out of french street fighting.
vale tudo gave anybody in the world the opportunity to do their "non sport stuff" to the gracies (and other bjj practitioners) for 40 or 50 years before the first UFC.
I think there's a lot more empirical evidence to support any of these "sports" being effective in the street than just about any "traditional" style.
Lucas
10-08-2009, 10:53 AM
i thot savate was more developed by sailors :p
i think it was the savate guy on that show fight quest, saying thats why its so kick heavy, from the sailors olding onto ropes and stuff while the boat sways and they brawl on deck.
i dunno tho, just felt like being a *****
:D
dirtyrat
10-08-2009, 11:13 AM
I honestly think that true kung fu is rare to the point of extinction, so we'll probably never see so-called masters step in the ring.
The Chinese can be notoriouly secretive even among their own. I also think they have a practical side to them. Kung fu is not a natural way of fighting as compared to mma. So naturally it takes longer to build in the reflexes. Then there's the stories of special training like iron palm/body and so on and on.
Practically speaking, why train for years when its easier to buy a gun? Especially (if I'm right; doesn't make sense to me to make unarmed training your primary focus as there is a difference in wanting to learn how to brawl vs defending yourself) if kung back in the days was primarily a weapons based system.
If the above is true, then what was passed down was probably passed down for recreational and health purposes (though among many Chinese the practice of kung fu at one time was considered barbaric and for low-lives/thugs). If so, that could explain why it has failed to evolve with the changing times.
sanjuro_ronin
10-08-2009, 11:23 AM
Your comments are insulting to people who have dedicated themselves to study certain aspects of unarmed combat and take the risk to their health and ego to test their skills publicly against well-trained foes.
I'm not going to go back and forth with you. Boxing is a sport. Kick boxing is a sport. Fencing is a sport. Jiu-Jitsu is a sport.
A boxer is great with his fists and shows it. A kick boxer is great with his hands and feet and shows it. A fencer is great with the sword and shows it. A jiu-jitsu player is fantastic and flowing, throwing and locking .... and shows it.
All these "sport" types are competing openly on an international level. Why is it that we have no evidence, NONE, of any Kung Fu master applying his skill as openly? Why haven't any of these great masters compared with their modern boxer, MMA counterparts? I was just a CMA student for a decade, was impressed enough with what I learned to go compare. It's the only honest thing to do if you are serious as any master would be, right?
So instead wasting time insulting people who are pushing their craft, why don't you be the kung fu guy to dig us up some evidence. Go talk to the top internal masters, see if you can get them to fight. Find out what rules, if any, they would want to compare under. Then get back to me.
Ray, I think that most here, by now, have figured out that LCP is full of it or dilusional.
Either way I don't think anyone pays that much attention to him.
Iron_Eagle_76
10-08-2009, 11:56 AM
The truth is in the eye of the beholder. It amazes me as well that in this age of technology that allows viewers the ability to witness every kind of unarmed combat imaginable, that there are still people so gullible to believe that their crappy arm flailing, form fairy arts are efficient. Most "REAL" Kung Fu stylists choose to strip their style of the bull sh*t such as stupid stances and forms/kata and work on basics, footwork, sparring, clinching, grappling and other live drills that make someone competent to use that art. The other dip sh*ts like LCP harp on and on about the greatness of their master and how a TRUE Kung Fu master would own any sport fighter. I like to compare it to the nerd in junior high who gets beat up by bullies and dreams of getting back at them some day. But instead of hitting the gym and trying to do something about his pathetic physical state, he simply talks about how one day he is going to get back at them. Terds like LCP are either delusional LARPers who could not hang in combat sports or know the sh*t they spout is a lie but continue to do so because they cannot admit their own shortcomings and failures. Either way, they are not worth the time or effort.
its funny hearing people bash on tma not working when muay thai is a traditional martial art and kick boxing is a mix of karate and mt
not to mention bjjj came from judo
but yeah thats stuff dont work lol
"we have no evidence, NONE, of any Kung Fu master applying his skill"
never heard of cung le?
(shakes head)
Ray Pina
10-08-2009, 02:21 PM
its funny hearing people bash on tma not working
I'm bashing on CMA not working
never heard of cung le?
(shakes head)
Yes. Do you attribute his victories to Wing Chun or kickboxing/San Da? Also good to note he now trains MMA.
Pork Chop
10-08-2009, 02:36 PM
its funny hearing people bash on tma not working when muay thai is a traditional martial art and kick boxing is a mix of karate and mt
not to mention bjjj came from judo
but yeah thats stuff dont work lol
"we have no evidence, NONE, of any Kung Fu master applying his skill"
never heard of cung le?
(shakes head)
sweet geebus
the "sport" people never go out of their way to bash traditional stuff without it being instigated first with the stupid "well sport stuff won't work in the street" bs...
Yeah, boxing, muay thai, and wrestling are each older than about 90% of kung fu styles.
Wanna know one of the oldest "traditional" kung fu styles?
It's the one that also has a "sport" competition aspect similar to Judo - aka Shuai Chiao.
"sport" and "play" are how you work on your fighting the other 99% of your life when you're not actively trying to rip some dude's throat out; so excuse me if i bash those guys who prefer to sit around and whack off waiting for that throat ripping moment instead of spending the rest of the time doing "sport" or "play" at a level of contact high enough to do some damage.
Lucas
10-08-2009, 02:37 PM
anybody who competes in mma needs to train mma.
its well known that cma is NOT a specialized ground fighting art. thats half of a mma match. cma, by itself, is not prepared for mma ring fighting. it just isnt. thats why you dont see kungfu guys in mma. however you may see mma guys who have done some kungfu and crossed over into the mma world. hell, several of them post here.
so just like MT or TKD, CMA has to cross train to fight in the venue of MMA.
no kungfu guys fight mma. thats true. neither do bjj guys, karate guys, muay thai guys, etc. mma guys fight mma.
its like saying bjj guys dont fight sanshou. well ya. they arent trained for that sport. they can cross train and go fight mma, or stay in their format of competative fighting. grappling matches. OR crosstrain, and go fight sanshou.
cma shows its sportive combat applications in sanshou most readily.
its not style vs style anymore its all mixed up, everyone fighting mma is crosstraining, and everyone is recieving the benefits of that crosstraining.
but do kungfu guys fight in mma? nope, only mma guys fight in mma.
let me ask this though. how many strictly mma guys (meaning started MA with MMA not with a strong foundation in any other art) will go on to take golden gloves or top BJJ trophy in a tourney. probably none.
its really a balancing of time and energy in conjunction with your long term goals.
it all comes down to goals
Lucas
10-08-2009, 02:41 PM
i never really got the bashing thing though. either direction.
i just let the fairy dancers continue to dance. let them live in their fantasy till it crumbles around them.
Thats the point though the guys who bash on tma are just as stupid as the tma stylist that bash on mma or other sport fighters.
Instead of talking **** about how tma doesnt work how about YOU PERSONALLY go around and find well respected masters and ask them to spar instead of sitting on your arses. Your being no different than the tma keyboard warriors who sit online talking about how they could drop any sport fighter with their whirling koala fist:D
Not to mention i dont think alot of posters on martial art forums realize how insignificant our posts are here.
Martial art masters have better things to do with their time than sit online and read what some anonymous **** (who likely lies about their knowledge and skill of their own style they practice) has to say about them or their style
Pork Chop
10-08-2009, 02:55 PM
Instead of talking **** about how tma doesnt work how about YOU PERSONALLY go around and find well respected masters and ask them to spar instead of sitting on your arses.
What makes you think none of us have already done that?
What makes you think none of us were at one time students of "well respected masters"?
or "masters" ourselves?
I think MerryPrankster is the only guy that posts here that hasn't had any experience being the student at a kung fu school and he's probably the most respectful.
The rest of us have all trained under some pretty respected names in the country.
Ray's posted videos of himself throwing down with traditional guys in his area.
I've "touched hands" with quite a few myself.
lkfmdc has more kung fu cred than 99% of the self-proclaimed "kung fu purists" on this board.
The ones that knew what they were doing didn't sit there talking trash about "sport" this and "street" that; they knew what they could do coz they pressure tested their stuff and didn't have the gall to sit around saying something's worthless coz there are rules and an onsite doctor.
real recognizes real
Water Dragon
10-08-2009, 03:30 PM
lkfmdc has more kung fu cred than 99% of the self-proclaimed "kung fu purists" on this board.
He did. lkfmdc lost most of his cred after the incident with Sifu Abel, the transvestite midget, and the kiddie pool full of green jello.
What makes you think none of us have already done that?
What makes you think none of us were at one time students of "well respected masters"?
or "masters" ourselves?
I think MerryPrankster is the only guy that posts here that hasn't had any experience being the student at a kung fu school and he's probably the most respectful.
The rest of us have all trained under some pretty respected names in the country.
Ray's posted videos of himself throwing down with traditional guys in his area.
I've "touched hands" with quite a few myself.
lkfmdc has more kung fu cred than 99% of the self-proclaimed "kung fu purists" on this board.
The ones that knew what they were doing didn't sit there talking trash about "sport" this and "street" that; they knew what they could do coz they pressure tested their stuff and didn't have the gall to sit around saying something's worthless coz there are rules and an onsite doctor.
real recognizes real
im talking about an actual known master not just some "guy" i want names like wing lam or gary lam or tat mau wong or shinyu gushi or morio higgaonna
Lucas
10-08-2009, 04:04 PM
you wont get those names because;
a. every cma master of note has turned down every challenge match ever issued by those mma guys that go around issuing challenges to well known, famous masters.
b. they arent actually getting challenged. why challenge someone you know might have a fighting chance, when you can challenge no name wannabe's from the mckwoon down the street light saber fighting.
c. the challenges are only being issued to people the challengers already know they can beat.
we've all seen the mma 20 something fight the tma out of shape 40 something...geeeeee ya think the young guys going to win?
;)
"every cma master of note has turned down every challenge match ever"
such as?
and please know one bring up the gracie challenge matches that fits right in with lucas's point b.
Ray Pina
10-08-2009, 04:17 PM
"sport" and "play" are how you work on your fighting the other 99% of your life when you're not actively trying to rip some dude's throat out; so excuse me if i bash those guys who prefer to sit around and whack off waiting for that throat ripping moment instead of spending the rest of the time doing "sport" or "play" at a level of contact high enough to do some damage.
That's it! That says it all.
Lucas
10-08-2009, 04:21 PM
well also if you look at the fact that everyone knows cma isnt a groundfighting specialized art, to take bjj and pit it against cma is really just a commercial.
where can cma beat bjj? weapons. how about a cma vs bjj striking only? whos commercial would it be then.
im all for rules and all for no rules, doesnt matter to me, but i like to see fair fights.
remember when ali almost lost his legs cuz he got the crap kicked out of him? doesnt mean boxing sucks, just means it wasnt a good match up.
kungfu guy vs muay thai guy is a better match up.
watch a lot sanshou and we see cma vs thai on a regular basis.
Ray Pina
10-08-2009, 04:21 PM
Instead of talking **** about how tma doesnt work how about YOU PERSONALLY go around and find well respected masters and ask them to spar instead of sitting on your arses.
I've done this. Even have footage when I challenged Emin Boztepe back in the day. Fact is, it's not right to do that. It was wrong of me. Everyone should be free to conduct their business and seminars unobstructed.
Those that want to stake a legit claim about their skill go out. Those that want the reputation without spilling sweat and blood talk.
Martial art masters have better things to do with their time than sit online and read what some anonymous **** (who likely lies about their knowledge and skill of their own style they practice) has to say about them or their style
True.
Pork Chop
10-08-2009, 04:24 PM
im talking about an actual known master not just some "guy" i want names like wing lam or gary lam or tat mau wong or shinyu gushi or morio higgaonna
as if any big name guys actually still fought themselves....
Lucas has got it half right (overwhelmingly choice a), but as custom dictates big names have their students/reps fight on their behalf.
The true goings on are definitely more friendly than what you're daydreaming about.
"A" drops by "B"'s gym/school to see what his program's about, "B" gives an overview and if "A" still has any questions he can pressure test with "B"'s student "C". If "A" or "C" step it up in the course of the playing, it's on and they see what's what.
I mean, you talk trash about someone who fights in the ring and then d!cktuck when called on it, don't expect to get respected. Talk trash about someone who fights in the ring, then step up when called on it, and you'll earn respect even if you lose - unless of course you're a complete d!ck after the fact (not mentioning any names). Of course, if you win you've earned the right to open your mouth.
On the other hand, this isn't Count Dante, you don't show up at someone's school with swords threatening to shut them down. Respect is a two-way street.
If you're just looking for us to name drop every kung fu school we've ever worked out with and who all we thought were garbage, you're not getting it here - at least from me. I'm not here to instigate trash talk, just respond to it, and i got friends at some of those gyms who i would never want to disrespect like that, whether they read this site or not.
EDIT: PS- quit trying to drop the names of san shou dudes. San shou was ripped on by tcma guys right alongside all the other sport fighters. They tout the name of Cung Le when they wanna say something's effective, then turn around and bash him for being a high school wrestler with some TKD, saying he's not traditional. San Shou was used by the TCMA community as they saw fit and when it didn't make certain federation people tons of money, it was left to rot on the vine. I'm from one of the old big 7 san shou gyms in the US. lkfmdc is coach at another. The Boston guys lurk. Sheeley (Ohio) & Altman (Texas now Cali) both post on another board. Do you think any san shou guy's gonna say "ah what we do sux, it's just sport, the ring stuff's the real stuff"?
Really?
I've done this. Even have footage when I challenged Emin Boztepe back in the day. Fact is, it's not right to do that. It was wrong of me. Everyone should be free to conduct their business and seminars unobstructed.
Those that want to stake a legit claim about their skill go out. Those that want the reputation without spilling sweat and blood talk.
True.
lol i think everyone knows by now how i fell about boztepe:D i will leave it at that
Lucas
10-08-2009, 04:32 PM
i dont know what you think about him. do tell :D
as if any big name guys actually still fought themselves....
Lucas has got it half right (overwhelmingly choice a), but as custom dictates big names have their students/reps fight on their behalf.
The true goings on are definitely more friendly than what you're daydreaming about.
"A" drops by "B"'s gym/school to see what his program's about, "B" gives an overview and if "A" still has any questions he can pressure test with "B"'s student "C". If "A" or "C" step it up in the course of the playing, it's on and they see what's what.
I mean, you talk trash about someone who fights in the ring and then ****tuck when called on it, don't expect to get respected. Talk trash about someone who fights in the ring, then step up when called on it, and you'll earn respect even if you lose - unless of course you're a complete d!ck after the fact (not mentioning any names). Of course, if you win you've earned the right to open your mouth.
On the other hand, this isn't Count Dante, you don't show up at someone's school with swords threatening to shut them down. Respect is a two-way street.
If you're just looking for us to name drop every kung fu school we've ever worked out with and who all we thought were garbage, you're not getting it here - at least from me. I'm not here to instigate trash talk, just respond to it, and i got friends at some of those gyms who i would never want to disrespect like that, whether they read this site or not.
but thats the point im getting at theres **** talking from boths sides but no one ever does any thing about it besides point to clips of kids slapping each other in their back yards as proof of this art or that art not working
point is none of the tma bashers have or will go"cross hands" with tma stylist of worth and none of the mma bashers who practice tma will go spar with a known fighter
i dont know what you think about him. do tell :D
how can i put this politely:D
...guys a ****in fraud lol
i dont mean to stir the pot so if the mods delte this i understand just my views on the guy
Lucas
10-08-2009, 04:35 PM
Talk trash about someone who fights in the ring, then step up when called on it, and you'll earn respect even if you lose - unless of course you're a complete d!ck after the fact (not mentioning any names).
hehehe
:eek:
Pork Chop
10-08-2009, 04:40 PM
point is none of the tma bashers have or will go"cross hands" with tma stylist of worth and none of the mma bashers who practice tma will go spar with a known fighter
this statement is patently false.
without dropping names, just look at some of the places some of us have come from.
my ma experience comes from TCMA (prior to sanshou), so does Ray's, so does lkfmdc, even Knifefighter.
that's the environment we came from, working out with well respected people in that environment, i can guarantee you we know what we're talking about.
i also don't think you're understanding where we're coming from when we say what we say.
personally, i'm not saying TCMA is bad.
I'm saying guys that come from a tcma background that talk trash about sport fighters for being "sport" and not "street", who refuse to jump in there and show their stuff, definitely don't have "it", and any talk by said individuals blowing up themselves or their capabilities is purely m@sterbation.
Lucas
10-08-2009, 04:40 PM
hey goju, you should be like that guy johnny from that jet li movie 'the master' and start a reality tv show where you go around and issue challenges to masters!
ill pay to watch it
Ray Pina
10-08-2009, 04:44 PM
no kungfu guys fight mma. thats true. neither do bjj guys, karate guys, muay thai guys, etc. mma guys fight mma.
Where do Kung Fu guys do their thing? And what is it that they do when they get together to do it?
If I remember correctly, its gathered into a taped up auditorium mad early, watch a lion dance, start kids forms, move into weapons form... push hands happening in ring 2 and 3... internal forms start up. Weapons forms. Maybe 4 or 5 hours later what's being called full contact fighting happens under very regulated and padded conditions. Fight-finishing contact, the thing that most Kung Fu practitioners say is what they'd use to overcome aggressive fighters, is illegal. usually can't hit the covered head at all. Or if so only in a certain way.
I do want to come down heavy on Kung Fu. I love Kung Fu! But we have fu(ked it up.
The reason there's this whole non-fighting chi kung meditation dancing side of it is that the folks here and their counterparts created that market. Folks that don't have it in them to open a real fighting gym and that responsibility. What it really means to be a martial art school.... representatives of a fighting system!!!!
So they sell all this bull$hit to Americans the same way they bought it off a Chinese man that duped them, following a path that so obviously doesn't lead to martial proficiency. Yet they come in droves for it. Creating delicate masters by the dozen.
No, they won't fight. They're too dangerous. Its too beneath them.... how many times have they had to eat $hit quietly because they hadn't the nerve to stand up for themselves, answer back like a man, like they wanted to..... because they're training is empty.
Lee Chiang Po
10-08-2009, 04:47 PM
Ray, from the way I am talked to here I was under the inmpression that you had to open every dialog with some sort of insult. First of all, for a gung fu forum it seems that everyone here is into some sort of sport fighting. Ring fighting, and that gung fu is worthless for some reason. It might be from the way some seem to be talking. Trying to sound so smart and all. Gung fu is like any other form of fighting in that it is physical and it does not envolve mythic abilities. I am a practical man. I do not believe in anything that you can not prove to me, and internal gung fu is just one of these. And for the love of Pete, quite trying to compare it with such stuff as Muay Thai, Brizialian Jujitsu, boxing, and whatever. Those are for sport and are fought by tight rules. You can not really compare it to a fighting system that is not designed for sport for christ's sake, but you all keep doing it. You can kick me off the forum if you want to, I don't really care. The concept of having a decent and civil conversation on this forum is impossible anyway. I have been insulted more than once, and I am not usually willing to insult people back, but I have learned this right here on your forum. Some of you people don't have a life outside this forum. Or it would seem.
Now, as for my suggesting people go out and endanger their lives to test their skills. Am I the first one to make this suggestion. Or should it be reworded like, fight a resisting opponent. I made that comment for those that compare sport fighting to real street fighting. You go into a street fight working by ring rules and you will get hurt. And you can not fight in the ring as a sport if you don't have these rules to fight by. Someone will certainly get hurt. So for these very reasons you or anyone else can not compare the 2. You take away the techniques that make a fighting system useful and put it into the ring and you have nothing left to fight with except what the other guy has, no matter what his system is.
I realize that most of the top regulars here say that they ignore me. But that is mostly because I seldom ever agree with their BS. Most of them have never fought outside a ring anyway, or in one, so it is of no consequince to me. I am always hearing about how they teach and how there school is this and that, but I can not find anything to even suggest that this is true. They don't even tell where they live or their real names. With the exception of maybe a few. It is easy for people to hide behind their keyboards and talk smack to people. I use my real name and I will tell you where I live. I don't make no claims that are not true and I have been doing this when most of you were still passing yellow. To get respect from me, you got to give it. It goes both ways. I am done here anyway. One can not learn here, so what is the purpose? To read endless arguements about why or how this is better or this is worse or my lineage is better than yours or some such? Chu and Redmond are probably the only 2 people on this forum that can discuss without talking crap.
hey goju, you should be like that guy johnny from that jet li movie 'the master' and start a reality tv show where you go around and issue challenges to masters!
ill pay to watch it
lol:D:D:D first stop boztepe school:D
Lucas
10-08-2009, 04:51 PM
personally, i'm not saying TCMA is bad.
.
ya i dont think anyone is saying that.
the overhelming problem is being able to discern between the two completely seperate worlds.
its like nascar drivers vs the guy that sits home drinking beer wearing a nascar t shirt.
I'm saying guys that come from a tcma background that talk trash about sport fighters for being "sport" and not "street", who refuse to jump in there and show their stuff, definitely don't have "it", and any talk by said individuals blowing up themselves or their capabilities is purely m@sterbation.
i know i agree with this but my point is you have too many **** talkers from both sides who wouldnt be willing to show their stuff:D
Lucas
10-08-2009, 04:56 PM
Where do Kung Fu guys do their thing? And what is it that they do when they get together to do it?
thats my implication precisely. kungfu guys generally will have to change their format to something more along the lines of mma. or leave their kungfu school and join a mma gym.
thats where they do their thing. the same place everyone else does. there are more and more cma, and tma guys, jumping on the mma bandwagon. switching camps so to speak. they can test themselves there, they can learn different material there, etc.
if i go into a new mma gym today and sign up, you think im going to tell them i come from a kungfu background? nope. ill just say im new to ma and sign me up for beginner class.
when i went to my first mma gym i told them i knew karate and they didnt hee haw about it (posibly because the manangers uncle taught marines aikido)
and they let me spar with amatuer kickboxers who had fights under their belts and i only had a hard time with one of them. and this is coming from a guy who just practiced karate in his back yard with his uncle and largely only sparred with one person for most of his martial arts training:D
Ray Pina
10-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Boztepe had good root and sinking power. He honestly felt more like a wrestler then a Wing Chun guy, comparing him to other Wing Chun guys I've played with.
....
I've trained with high-level "sport fighters" at Renzo's. Let me tell you how much they're thinking about the world of CMA and its masters: not at all. These are people who are world recognized and awarded for their skill. These are people who became rich and famous off their skill.
A "CMA master" is less likely to draw their attention than some drunk, smack-talking fan. It's just not the same universe. When you're knocking out Chuck Lidell's you don't go looking for that old man in the push hands video. When you're the old man or his student and you want to make a legit name, you go face a Lidell. Every high school to college football player to your average armchair slob at home has an opinion about Monday night football. But there's only a number of millionaires getting paid for being on that field. You want that clout, you have to earn the right to be there.
......
I have no beef with TMA and TCMA. I love them. It just bothers me to see it ba$tardized to the point that the majority of it is useless.
....
If you haven't noticed, MMA fights start standing and at a distance... this favors Kung Fu. Plenty of MMA fighters, including the past few champs, all choose to keep the fight standing. The venue is fair.
bawang
10-08-2009, 10:22 PM
i personaly dont care what people want to do. i think people can do whatever they want to do.
i like to do kung fu to preserve a cool chinese culture. i dont really train it for self defence for because in real life pople shoot you, and i dont like competeing because when you lose nobody cares about you and you feel really bad.
my cousin's bodyguard was a amature sanda champion in jiangsu. he was funny because when he sees somebody walking down the street he always wants to fight them. he used to joke when he sees his parents he wants to fight them too, but is too scared. he was crazy good i was scared of him, he saw me and wants to fight me lol
but he lives in a small room alone with barely any money, hhes only 25 but his hands always shake nonstop, and the only thing he does is traing so he had no friends.
my cousin never did any type of fight training, hes very fat and hairy, but when he goes to a rival company office he takes off his belt and whips the secretary and kick a table because they cheat him, and gets his ass kissed and 100 thousand rmb business deal.
i think fighting is cool but if you devote your life to it you live a really hard life. im not smart, my brain not so big, but i want to finish university to live a good life.
like in college a lot of people drop out and cry and you never hear about them, in sport fight a lot of people want to become superstars but cant make it and are sad but you never hear about them
Lucas
10-08-2009, 10:29 PM
lol your cousin sounds like a bad ass bawang.
mma is definately a fair venue. its the most fair venue in the world. but for anyone to enter a mma match soley as a skilled cma striker against a skilled mma fighter is kidding themselves. there is a very good chance they will get submitted. for most cases there must be a cross over to even think about fighting in a mma match. sure the pure striker might start off with some lucky ko/tko but once they get taken down its going to get ugly quick. thats discounting any throws or 'standing grappling' the cma guy might know.
bawang
10-08-2009, 10:38 PM
yeah man my cousin is the man, he always had 3 prostitute ladies hanging on his arm
i think a lot of kung fu isnt realistic, but rolling on the ground for 5 min is a bit not realistic also
i think maybe mma can be more realistic if youre on the ground too long, the referee hit you with a stick
the only time i see fighting with bare hands in real life is one guy against 20 guys, you cant do the ground fight unlee you beat up some drunk guy in a small town.
even tho mma is more realistic than traditional kung fu, its still getting hurt for entertainment. people boo when you get quick knock out because they paid big money to see long fight
for me i like watching fights that finish very very fast like 5 seconds, i think that takes skil
if somebody sneak sup on you and you still can beat them, i think that takes a lot of skill
i think the time and age, and the kind of people who is training kung fu now is all differnt. my grandmother said when she watched excution a long time ago, the guy cutting the head was smiling, then after they beat those drums and pots. a diferent kind of people trained kung fu.
Your comments are insulting to people who have dedicated themselves to study certain aspects of unarmed combat and take the risk to their health and ego to test their skills publicly against well-trained foes.or is it simply insulting to you? why do you take everything so personally?
Boxing is a sport. Kick boxing is a sport. Fencing is a sport. Jiu-Jitsu is a sport.actually they have all EVOLVED into sports... it's all about the roots baby!!!
All these "sport" types are competing openly on an international level. Why is it that we have no evidence, NONE, of any Kung Fu master applying his skill as openly? Why haven't any of these great masters compared with their modern boxer, MMA counterparts? I was just a CMA student for a decade, was impressed enough with what I learned to go compare. It's the only honest thing to do if you are serious as any master would be, right?
So instead wasting time insulting people who are pushing their craft, why don't you be the kung fu guy to dig us up some evidence. Go talk to the top internal masters, see if you can get them to fight. Find out what rules, if any, they would want to compare under. Then get back to me.LOL... didn't any of these old timer kung fu peeps ever tell you that the best fighters do not need to fight?? my teacher always told me that at a competition the best of the best are only out of those who decide to show up, other people have no desire to prove themselves or to water their ego's with the blood of others... the reason there are no high level kung fu peeps out in the limelight is simply because there is no desire to fight anyone. no need to unless attacked, in person, in the physical realm... LOL... perhaps its simply because we all have such a great peace of mind and like to watch the chaos of those beneath us squirm in the fray of the world. so now you can attempt a retort at me, but i don't take things personally so you can hit me with your best shot, but it won't stick to anything. :D
you know ray... i believe it is you that are taking things way too personally... way to personally. this is not a healthy attitude to have in life... if you can allow words on an internet forum boards to affect you so, what does that say about your peace of mind? i am just musing out loud... try not to take it personally, because it seems you always do. :p
i agree thats another thing ive seen awesome guys that do mma and tma that never compete:D
not everyone gives a fiddlers **** about it and often alot who do just want to prove something and are not that great:D
i agree thats another thing ive seen awesome guys that do mma and tma that never compete:D
not everyone gives a fiddlers **** about it and often alot who do just want to prove something and are not that great:D
we better stop... we're gonna make ray cry. :D
Frost
10-09-2009, 03:14 AM
Those who do or have competed know why they do it and what they get out of it... those that have not can only judge and mock from outside and make asinine statements like this........
The best fighters do not need to fight.....
They do not need to fight to prove themselves or stroke their egos...
Those with really good kung fu have no desire to fight.....
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad and predictable:D
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad and predictable.you know what else is sad and predictable??? if anyone was to physically threaten myself, my family, or my children, i would rip their limbs off. :)
Frost
10-09-2009, 03:40 AM
you know what else is sad and predictable??? if anyone was to physically threaten myself, my family, or my children, i would rip their limbs off. :)
really? you do come across as a bit of a monkey I didn't know you had ape strength though :D
that's the other thing about guys who compete they tend to be a bit more.. grounded and normal in their thinking :D
sanjuro_ronin
10-09-2009, 05:16 AM
1993 called, they want their thread back.
Frost
10-09-2009, 05:38 AM
1993 called, they want their thread back.
thats enough of that,we are all grown ups if we want to get into an arguement like this its our choice..... we know what we are doing.... honest.......;)
brothernumber9
10-09-2009, 06:00 AM
1993?!?! so are we back to alt.rec.martialarts ? I don't remember my html or shell scripts any more.
sanjuro_ronin
10-09-2009, 06:00 AM
thats enough of that,we are all grown ups if we want to get into an arguement like this its our choice..... we know what we are doing.... honest.......;)
http://ui27.gamespot.com/1082/idiocy_2.jpg
MasterKiller
10-09-2009, 06:16 AM
1993 called, they want their thread back.
Actually, that was your mom calling. Tell her I'll pay the child support when she supplies the DNA test!
sanjuro_ronin
10-09-2009, 06:54 AM
Actually, that was your mom calling. Tell her I'll pay the child support when she supplies the DNA test!
Dude....
Bringing up mothers...not cool.
MasterKiller
10-09-2009, 08:03 AM
Dude....
Bringing up mothers...not cool.
Making fun of 1993 isn't so cool, either. :mad:
Scott R. Brown
10-09-2009, 08:09 AM
On the other thread I mentioned an argument between a Soldier of Alexander the Great's and a Pankration fighter along these same lines, so to be fair, 230 B.C wants its argument back!
sanjuro_ronin
10-09-2009, 08:11 AM
On the other thread I mentioned an argument between a Soldier of Alexander the Great's and a Pankration fighter along these same lines, so to be fair, 230 B.C wants its argument back!
**** em, they're all dead anyways !!
David Jamieson
10-09-2009, 08:20 AM
what's this thread about again?
Is it about 1993? Or your mom?
which is it?
I'm so confused.
anyway, I didn't touch your mom in 1993 and I can prove it!
:p
really? you do come across as a bit of a monkey I didn't know you had ape strength though.i have a reputation on the mountain... i'm a crazy stone mason. :p
that's the other thing about guys who compete they tend to be a bit more.. grounded and normal in their thinking.normal is for nerds...
Boston Bagua
10-09-2009, 09:36 AM
Uki has some incredible tendon strength going on.
Does not look big, but he is strong.
I look more like Shrek
Lucas
10-09-2009, 09:46 AM
Uki has some incredible tendon strength going on.
Does not look big, but he is strong.
I look more like Shrek
lol but isnt shrek the giant ogre thing that destroys everything in his path? oh ya do you have a talking jackarse for a sidekick? if not, accepting applications?
I look more like Shrek'cept your not quite as green...
Scott R. Brown
10-09-2009, 06:44 PM
lol but isnt shrek the giant ogre thing that destroys everything in his path? oh ya do you have a talking jackarse for a sidekick? if not, accepting applications?
No Shrek is the gentle giant, who looks intimidating because of his size, but is really just a ***** cat deep inside!:)
Ray Pina
10-11-2009, 07:42 AM
On the other thread I mentioned an argument between a Soldier of Alexander the Great's and a Pankration fighter along these same lines, so to be fair, 230 B.C wants its argument back!
Both those guys showed up to fight though.
Both those guys showed up to fight though.perhaps both were just as retarded?? if no one shows up to fight, there is no need to fight... physical violence is for people with insecurity issues. :)
Scott R. Brown
10-11-2009, 02:42 PM
perhaps both were just as retarded?? if no one shows up to fight, there is no need to fight... physical violence is for people with insecurity issues. :)
Hi uki,
Ray hasn't been around for a while. Perhaps a few of your war stories would be appropriate to establish your knowledge base. Ray really hasn't been in many REAL fights. He doesn't understand the real consequences of real fighting!
Ray Pina
10-11-2009, 02:49 PM
Ray really hasn't been in many REAL fights. He doesn't understand the real consequences of real fighting!
I grew up in Newark. I fought weekly growing up. I've been stabbed.
Ray Pina
10-11-2009, 02:52 PM
I currently live in a VERY violent place. Check the homicide numbers for Puerto Rico.
When I first moved here I was attacked twice by armed groups of men.
I know the consequences of fighting. So much so that I keep it to the gym, ring and cage. So much so I'm going top buy a gun on Fri. because I need one for where I live.
I know the consequences of fighting. And I know the consequences of mouthing off. I do neither unless forced to. And the later tends to precede the former.
Scott R. Brown
10-11-2009, 02:55 PM
Thank you establishing that Ray.
Thank you establishing that Ray.he is such an easy catch... :p
Scott R. Brown
10-11-2009, 03:02 PM
he is such an easy catch... :p
Well being in a few fights is better than nothing.....it isn't like the inmate I knew who was sitting there with his ear drum punctured his bicep slashed nearly to the bone and other numerous slashes to his body sitting there calmly recounting the assault, but it isn"t NO experience either!
apparently ray atleast loses his matches...
Scott R. Brown
10-11-2009, 03:09 PM
apparently ray atleast loses his matches...
LOL he is honest, and that is how you learn. In the real world losing can get you killed or permanently incapacitated. But if you really want to think you are tough that is where you need to get your experience!.....he is a good guy albeit a bit young!
he is a good guy albeit a bit young!he's definitely got potential!
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