What in Wing Chun works the best?

[Ultimatewingchun]

...in all-out fighting/sparring against a skilled opponent? Not just your average streetfighter/brawler...and not against some guy with a year or two in whatever? art.

No.

Against people with real skills: boxing, wrestling, mma, karate, tkd, jiu jitsu, judo, sambo, muay thai, kickboxing, etc.

What in your experience works the best? In fact, here's another way to ask this:

If you had a "match" coming up with such a fighter from those disciplines listed above, and let's say he was skilled in at least one of the striking systems listed and at least one of the grappling systems listed...

What in wing chun would you be training the most for such an encounter?

What in wing chun would be on the list of things to really focus upon?

SLT ?
Chum kiu?
Bil Jee?
Wooden Dummy?
Chain punching?
The low front kick with the heel as the striking surface?
Pak as a block/parry?
Pak da (as simultaneous defense/offense)
Lop da?
Use of bong, garn, bil, bil/lop, gum, lan, tan as defensive and in some cases offensive jamming and structure/breaking and unbalancing moves?
What about the centerline principle would you focus upon?
The TWC Entry technique?
The TWC blindside strategy?
If yes, specifically what about the strategy would you be focusing upon?
Side (body) stance & related footowork?
Triangle stepping footwork?
How much chi sao would be part of your preparation?
Other chi sao/kiu sao related drills?
How much time spent on the forms?
How much time spent sparring?
Full contact?
Light contact?
Protective gear?
No gear?
Other things about wing chun not yet mentioned?
Some of the above, but not all of it?
If so, then what's on the list and what gets left off - and why?
Is there anything non-wing chun that you would try to include in your preparation?
If so, what?

AND FINALLY....

Suppose the guy you're going to all-out fight/spar is only skilled in a striking art - how would that change your preparation, if at all?

And the same for the other side of the coin: Suppose he was just trained in a grappling art?

[k gledhill]

balance...

[Yoshiyahu]

The best training for fighting a skilled fighter is actually fighting skilled fighters. That means you need experience in fighting!

[iwingchun]

Siu Lim Tao , balance as k gledhill says and pak sao.

[Vajramusti]

I am not from WSL's line but very much respect WSL. Some samples of how WSL would answer some of these questions.

http://www.vingtsunupdate.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=77

((Interview by Erle Montaigue- well known MA person from OZ. Includes comments by Barry Lee.
(based on WSL and barry Lee experiences))


http://www.vingtsunupdate.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=82&Itemid=76

((Interview with Daniel Poon of Qi Magazine))

These articles are from references on the net.


joy chaudhuri

[k gledhill]

:D you can say that again ! "When you drink water you always think of the source."
from the interview Joy listed...

Wong Shun Leung: Someone who is looking at Wing Chun and hasn´t trained the full system, or hasn´t really gone for enough time with a teacher, probably won´t know enough footwork. They won´t understand the mobility involved in Wing Chun – the angles of attack, the advance and retreat. They won´t understand the full use of kicks in all situations. Therefore they will want to add something else that they think is better, for the sake of not knowing.

kg, me saying this not wsl : ....or I might add not add something and be fighting in a redundant drill, without the goals the drills take us to....

[k gledhill]

this from the second article :


Qi Mag: You were with Yip Man for a long time, did you notice that Yip Man's style changed as he got older?


He didn't change much, just got lazier! (laughs). When he first taught Siu Lim Tao, there was no Gang Sau in the 3rd section, but Jum Sau instead. But after I had a serious fight, the Jum Sau was changed into a Gang Sau. In the fight, the other guy was a lot taller. I'd hit him so badly in the face that he couldn't see, so he knelt down and covered his head with one hand and with the other blindly hit out. I went to block with a Jum Sau, as in the form, but the punch went really low and still connected. I was hurt and had to take a step back, even though the guy didn't realise he'd hit me. Eventually I knocked his teeth out, and he collapsed, so l won the fight. When I went back and told my teacher what I had found out, he told me that when he learned from Chan Wah Shun, Chan Wah Shun taught Gang Sau in the form, this was because Master Chan was tall, but when Yip Man later learned from Leung Bik, Leung Bik taught him to use Jum Sau because of the sequence in single sticking hands. But after this incident, Yip Man changed the Jum Sau back into a Gang Sau.


many dont use jum sao in dan chi-sao ...evolving into the wrist or 'DE'-volving :D [is that a word ?] iow going backwards when trying to achieve a strike that can do multiple functions in one beat...using tan & Jum in dan chisao....no wristing;)

[couch]

That's a simple question with a high percentage answer: Punching.

[ChinaBoxer]

the original question "What in Wing Chun works the best?" is a valid one..here's my answer.

the "salutation", because respect for other people, other methods, other views, is what binds us as "martial artists" and the most powerful movement i know in my years of combat study is the "handshake".

take care and peace!

Jin

[kung fu fighter]

The concepts and principles.

[-木叶-]

以柔制剛 - subdue by using very little force

[Ultimatewingchun]

earlier; but for a short answer, I basically agree with kung fu fighter. It's certain wing chun principles/concepts that work the best.

1) THE CENTERLINE - although I use a certain variation of it, especially from longer ranges...

2) SIMULTANEOUS BLOCK/PARRY + STRIKE - although this will not occur that often...

3) LOW KICKS - but this is no shock, as most fighters today do the same.

4) STRAIGHT LINE VERTICAL FIST STRIKING, BASED UPON THE SHORTEST-DISTANCE-BETWEEN-TWO-POINTS PRINCIPLE...but again, I personally adhere to this principle only at very close range. And I also see the necessity of using horizontally (and 45 degree-angled) thrown straight punches, ie.- jabs, stiff leads, and rear crosses; as well as hooks, overhands, uppercuts, etc. - all taken from boxing.

5) DON'T FIGHT FORCE WITH FORCE -as much as possible: parry, redirect, and avoid his strikes and his attempts to push, pull, etc.

But the long answer given earlier is just as important as paying attention to the principles, imo. The devil is always in the details, and I completely reject the idea that "wing chun is a concept based art, and not technique based." IT'S BOTH.

For example, if you can't apply (and don't know when to apply) tan, bong, lop, lop da, pak, pak da, garn, biu, lan, gum, etc. - then you're not really doing wing chun - you're simulating wing chun.

And if you don't understand the limitations of using tan, bong, lop, lop da, pak, pak da, garn, biu, lan, gum, etc. - then you're simulating being an efficient fighter here in 2009.

[dirtyrat]

the original question "What in Wing Chun works the best?" is a valid one..here's my answer.

the "salutation", because respect for other people, other methods, other views, is what binds us as "martial artists" and the most powerful movement i know in my years of combat study is the "handshake".

Lol! Well, hard to argue that.

[Yoshiyahu]

Lol! Well, hard to argue that.

ha ha...funny...well how can you argue...if you salute well enough you might just advoid a fight!

[k gledhill]

I would add from personal experience that a simple well trained, timed, facing punch will drop a lot of people . It ends with you driving the rear foot into the ground for =&opposite force into the recipients contact point. Very powerful, direct, simple.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I like this thread. It is all correct from a given perspective. Moreover, most, if not all, of these responses can be used in conjunction.