resistance, withdraw, dissolve

[Hendrik]

Taiji classic said, " not withdraw, not resist" and that is dissolve.


Dissolve is not resist.

Dissolve is not using root or structure to counter the in coming force.

Dissolve is not withdraw.


The sam bai fut section of WCK with the Fook sau push outward cant be dissolve but a totally resistance disregard of it is back by shoulder or muscle or structure or root.....etc.

So what is dissolve?

Who knows this third state beside the general practice of resistance and withdraw?

[jooerduo]

dissolving is clear enough for me

I'm not sure if the conventional shape of the fook sau can actually dissolve at all

[Hendrik]

IMHO,

almost 90% of SLT is incapable of dissolving incoming force today.

in 1850's perhaps 50% is capable of dissolving incoming force.


So, the art has evolved.


As for today,
The fook sau section of SLT /SNT is perfectly train for resistance and withdrawing but not dissolving.

[Vajramusti]

IMHO,



As for today,
The fook sau section of SLT /SNT is perfectly train for resistance and withdrawing but not dissolving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik- are you making your pronouncement for all of wing chun?

joy chaudhuri

[anerlich]

almost 90% of SLT is incapable of dissolving incoming force today.

in 1850's perhaps 50% is capable of dissolving incoming force.


So, the art has evolved.


Well, there's one theory of evolution NOT based on empirical evidence.

[Hendrik]

I am certainly not making pronouncement, that I am not interested at all.

There are key mechanics needed to be able to dissolve incoming force.
I am describing the general System dynamic of today's SLT which lack of this time of mechanics.


If you disagree with me, please
convince me it is different by share with me what is the system dynamics needed and inplace in what you practice. I am certainly open to learn.

[Vajramusti]

I am certainly not making pronouncement, that I am not interested at all.
((Ok))

There are key mechanics needed to be able to dissolve incoming force.
I am describing the general System dynamic of today's SLT which lack of this time of mechanics.

((Mechanics? I thought you said there is no such thing as structure? Apparently we use words differently))


If you disagree with me, please
convince me it is different by share with me what is the system dynamics needed and inplace in what you practice. I am certainly open to learn.

(( Iam unclear as to what your position is at times. A proposition has to be clear enough for agreement or disagreement.
If you are maintaining that dissolving a force is the only alternative- then I do disagree. One can also control, make a pre emptive attack, explode-the choices are many using different timings.))

joy chaudhuri

[Hendrik]

(( Iam unclear as to what your position is at times. A proposition has to be clear enough for agreement or disagreement.

If you are maintaining that dissolving a force is the only alternative- then I do disagree. One can also control, make a pre emptive attack, explode-the choices are many using different timings.))

joy chaudhuri



Joy,

Understood.

For you,
What is dissolving force means?

[m1k3]

Hendrick, I often have a hard time understanding you.


Dissolve is not resist.

Dissolve is not using root or structure to counter the in coming force.

Dissolve is not withdraw.


Its like saying to someone who has heard the word "water" .

Water is not tree.

Water is not fire.

Water is not air

What do you think water is?

I have no idea what action or state of being you are attempting to describe with dissolve. I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with immersing your opponent in a liquid until he loses structural integrity.

Please explain a little better so that we all can take part in the discussion.

Thanks,

Mike

[Vajramusti]

Joy,

Understood.

For you,
What is dissolving force means?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Verbally? To change the state, to disperse, to disintegrate. find a different usage etc etc.
Beyond that- has to be shown empirically.
What does it mean to you?

joy chaudhuri

[Hendrik]

Ok,


Resistance feel like when one push into a woodern dummy, a rebounce-able rubber strips, the string of a bow. there is pressure react back disregard if it is a solid banging impact or a elastic rebounce or potential building up counter the force applied.

Withdraw feel like when one syncronized with the movement of the incoming object, t move with it without having any impact.


Dissolve feel like when one is pushing a loose beans bag or a pile of beans one's force got diffuse without building up counter force or rebounce or bang back as the resistance or reaction force.

In this case the incoming force is just diffuse and defocus. Think about hugging and carrying a solid piece of wood compare with hugging and carrying a loose bean bag where is is minimum reaction at all for the applied force.



Saying these above. does anyone's SLT/SNT train one to have something close to dissolve? if your's does, please shared how do you do it?

[hunt1]

You have to understand accept before you can dissolve. The 12 energies section of SNT shows you methods of dissolve among other things. The fook of SNT you speak of is not dissolve but you can certainly dissolve with fook. The Wu of the first section can be dissolve if used after accept.

[Hendrik]

You have to understand accept before you can dissolve. The 12 energies section of SNT shows you methods of dissolve among other things. The fook of SNT you speak of is not dissolve but you can certainly dissolve with fook. The Wu of the first section can be dissolve if used after accept.

hunt1,



Could you please share more about accept and 12 energies section?
Could you please also share which lineage of WCK are you learn these from?


What is the process to cultivate this 12 energies and what is one doing to accept? basically, what will the JYKYM needs to do?

IE is your use Wu to dissolve what do you need to do? and what is the result of your Wu when other force contacted your wu hand?




Best Regards

[JPinAZ]

IMHO,

almost 90% of SLT is incapable of dissolving incoming force today.

in 1850's perhaps 50% is capable of dissolving incoming force.

So, the art has evolved.

followed later by


does anyone's SLT/SNT train one to have something close to dissolve? if your's does, please shared how do you do it?

Hendrik,

It sounds like from the first post, you already know the answer to your second question. So, can you please share your evidence of what 10% of WCK of today can actually disolve incoming force? Which half from 1850's could? Please enligten us, we shouldn't have to explain it too you if you already know the answer..

[Wayfaring]

Yea, 80% of statistics are made up on the fly too.

IMO, there is not ONE action that can universally be applied to incoming force. Not dissolve, not redirect, not meet head on and overpower, not retreat from or any other action verb.

It all depends on where it is coming from and your relationship to it as to the options that are available.

[k gledhill]

you can dissolve force easily by punching it in the head twice, quickly...no more force it is dissolved ...like the image of the moon the monkey tries to catch on the surface of the water..it has penetrated below the surface and is still, yet the monkey keeps grabbing at it...;)

[-木叶-]

I am certainly not making pronouncement, that I am not interested at all.

There are key mechanics needed to be able to dissolve incoming force.
I am describing the general System dynamic of today's SLT which lack of this time of mechanics.


If you disagree with me, please
convince me it is different by share with me what is the system dynamics needed and inplace in what you practice. I am certainly open to learn.

I beg to disagree, using bong sao together with turning of ma, has the effect
of dissolving force... And this was the very first lessons i learn in Wing Chun...

[CFT]

I beg to disagree, using bong sao together with turning of ma, has the effect
of dissolving force... And this was the very first lessons i learn in Wing Chun...Bong with turning horse is a redirection - sounds more like Hendrik's description of withdrawal.

[Hendrik]

Bong with turning horse is a redirection - sounds more like Hendrik's description of withdrawal.



yup. It doesnt dissolve the incoming forces.

[-木叶-]

Bong with turning horse is a redirection - sounds more like Hendrik's description of withdrawal.

I beg to disagree with this and also Hendrik's next reply, dissolve means
to 化, by doing bong with turning horse, we are actually dissolving force, we
all know that force cannot be gone instantly, it has to go somewhere... it is
impossible to me at least, to enable incoming force to go from 100 to 0 instantly, we either absorb it or redirect it, or evade it altogether.

Please correct me.

[Hendrik]

I beg to disagree with this and also Hendrik's next reply, dissolve means
to 化, by doing bong with turning horse, we are actually dissolving force, we
all know that force cannot be gone instantly, it has to go somewhere... it is
impossible to me at least, to enable incoming force to go from 100 to 0 instantly, we either absorb it or redirect it, or evade it altogether.

Please correct me.



You know why lots of WCner always got take down?

Because they think they can turning horse.....etc structure....ect. to dissolving force, yes no turning or using some type of strucutre to sustain the incoming force via some rooting from the ground (which in fact nail oneself dead and cant move when one was in that position of rooting).





those are withdrawing, angling , and resisting not dissolving.

and if they missed an angle or got set up to do a wrong turn. they are walking right into a trap.



Dissolving, 化, means you dont have to turn. you take it right there and dissolve it there.
That is Kung fu that is what I am talking about in 1850. all those turning, structure angling.... are great. but those cant replace the true Dissolving ability. That is a reality and disregards anyone want to argue that is fine with me. if the art is there is there if it is gone it is gone.

people can talk smart and keep trying to be smart but if you have never seen it you dont know it exist.

[-木叶-]

Dissolving, 化, means you dont have to turn. you take it right there and dissolve it there.

Thanks for the reply, correct my understanding, does it translate
to Taiji's push hands, where you can receive force and use it back to the opponent?

[Hendrik]

Thanks for the reply, correct my understanding, does it translate
to Taiji's push hands, where you can receive force and use it back to the opponent?


Nope. nothing to do with Taiji push hands.

For those who have it, one can place a palm on his chest and he can execute the Resisting via hard qigong/rooting, withdrawing via turning/shift/back...ect, and dissolving by just an intention. and you can feel the distinct different between them. from how your force application response back to you.




resisting will counter the force and compete on your strenght and structure....etc.

withdrawing means you are force out of the position often, unless it is a purposely set up.

Dissolving means the incoming force has minimum affect on him and he could response freely similar to the force you applied is not there.. as for resisting there always are a certain counter force needed to sustatin. withdrawing mostly means you give up your position.



Advance Chinese IMA have it, the taiji classic describe it well. one feather cannot land. in body of the person who is dissolving the in coming force, applied force to him cannot focus in his body, thus the incoming force doesnt affect his free action.

[CFT]

C'mon then Hendrik, how's it done?

No resistance obviously and no redirection which would be the "obvious" answer. I like your bean bag analogy but humans are bone, sinew and muscle, how do we dissolve incoming force?

[Hendrik]

C'mon then Hendrik, how's it done?

No resistance obviously and no redirection which would be the "obvious" answer. I like your bean bag analogy but humans are bone, sinew and muscle, how do we dissolve incoming force?



It can be done. lots of advance IMA can do it.

One's body needs to be transform and that is the training of IMA. What you describe is true, bone, sinew.....etc however that is not what reality is. The same bone, sinew, muscle can do lots of things.


Speaking with key common denominator of advance TCMA IMA.

1850, the trace of art is within SLT. Today, almost NONE. there are signature one can trace. it is an open secret in front of one's eyes.



and Key number one, if you are practicing your SLT with the forward pressure intention or force That guarentee you are drilling Resistance.

Key number two, if you are practicing your SLT with your body behind your elbow with forward pressure intention. that also guarentee you are drilling resistance.


Key number three, those who practice resistance be it with intention or structure is in the arena of competing force to force. that is the hard way.

You might not like to hear what I just post. but that is reality.
and there is nothing wrong with the hard way. it is just a different way.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Hi Hendrik,

It seems you've avoided posting any kind of practical, explorable information, and told us instead about the people and style who could do what you're thinking about.

Why not just explain a drill that is used to practice and develop this process/phenomenon? Wait, let me guess: it requires hooking up to an EEG machine for correct training. :rolleyes:

I have like 3 different ideas in my head regarding what you might be blathering on about. The one that springs to mind most prominently based on what you've written is a concept I train called "catching." Before I post them, though, it'd be nice to get some sort of clear explanation from you as to what the process/phenomenon/technique of "dissolving" is - preferrably in a real or theoretical human vs. human scenario, without reference to the 1850s. Also, do you have any vids which might show what you're describing?

[Wayfaring]

You know why lots of WCner always got take down?


Yes. Because they stand with their feet too close together, they have no bridge in the lower gate to deal with a changing level wrestler, and they don't practice defending takedowns.

Instead, they pursue some magical internal quality whereby they can "dissolve" a takedown attempt which somehow people in the 1850's who did SLT had but nobody does today.

Whereas WC'ers who do not get taken down actually practice against takedowns, and "dissolve" the takedown attempt the same way all other skilled fighters do, which is by some form of "sprawling".

[anerlich]

You know why lots of WCner always got take down?

Because they spend their time discussing hairsplitting semantics like whether bon "dissolves" or "redirects", and trying to out airhead each other on internet forums, instead of learning to frigging SPRAWL.

[k gledhill]

yeah sprawl...btw bong is for recovering an attacking entry line not redirecting and being passive.:D

[Hendrik]

yeah sprawl...btw bong is for recovering an attacking entry line not redirecting and being passive.:D


Who cares about redirecting and recovering?

BOng is alike a rotating three fins fan blade cut the heck out of everything, untouchable.

[LSWCTN1]

Hendrik,

By 'dissolving' do you mean the skilll that Dale Dugas exhibits? taking the force but not being affected by it?

[Yoshiyahu]

Who cares about redirecting and recovering?

BOng is alike a rotating three fins fan blade cut the heck out of everything, untouchable.

Great Post Hendrik. So tell me by dissolving force is this same as dissipating the force or dispersing force. Similiar to Tan Sau. When the force comes in it is turn off to emptiness. When you can turn force to emptiness or nothingness is the same as dissolving force?

The word Dissolve means "to cause to disperse or disappear. "

So with your Tan Sau or Tan Da aren't you dissolving force hear. But the key is not so much forward vector where the pressure goes upward. Your intention should be downward. As you go forward. So your Yi emanates both forward and downward at the same time so the force is dissolve to nothingness. Your bridge should be light and soft. This allows one to sense changes, openings, and attacks. Once you sense a change you can redirect, dissolve or withdraw the incoming force. Also what breath do you use when you dissolve. When you strike the breath goes outward. To uproot the breath comes in. To reel in and redirect the breath goes out. How should the breath be when you dissolve? Personally I believe if you inhale you are uprooting but if you exhale you can sink or fajin.

How ever speaking of Dissolving one should be rooted in the feet,
generated from the legs, controlled by the waist, and manifested through the fingers. The body acts as one unit to dissolve incoming force. I see what you mean by withdrawing however. it is the opposite of advancing. If you are sticking to your opponent and feel him advance with great force you withdraw while still maintaining connection. This is how you release force via withdrawing. So first you must yield to force before you can disslove. Would you agree hendrik. When you sense hard force coming on your bridge you must first be soft to yield. If you return hard for hard then you are fighting incoming force. This is resisting. But true WC is not about resisting force with force. Its about turning off force, Its about redirecting energy and creating a whirlwind to send the force back to your opponent. Its about being a lever. If you feel pressure in your right arm empty your left arm, become soft. Allow your force to disappear. But I know the key is the breath. With the proper breath one can control force through their body. But one must be soft to defeat the strong.

Here is a great saying "Entice the opponent toward you by allowing him to advance, lightly and nimbly follow his incoming forcewithout disconnecting and without resisting. When his force reaches its ****hest extent,it will naturally become empty. The opponent can then be let go or countered at will.Maintain your central equilibrium."

So the key is attract to emptiness and disperse the energy. The entire body must be relaxed. Not one once of strength is left in bones,muscles and sinews.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,

By 'dissolving' do you mean the skilll that Dale Dugas exhibits? taking the force but not being affected by it?


I dont know what Dale is doing so cant comment.

[Hendrik]

Your description is not what I mean, also it is too complicated and too much thoughts.



Great Post Hendrik. So tell me by dissolving force is this same as dissipating the force or dispersing force. Similiar to Tan Sau. When the force comes in it is turn off to emptiness. When you can turn force to emptiness or nothingness is the same as dissolving force?

The word Dissolve means "to cause to disperse or disappear. "

So with your Tan Sau or Tan Da aren't you dissolving force hear. But the key is not so much forward vector where the pressure goes upward. Your intention should be downward. As you go forward. So your Yi emanates both forward and downward at the same time so the force is dissolve to nothingness. Your bridge should be light and soft. This allows one to sense changes, openings, and attacks. Once you sense a change you can redirect, dissolve or withdraw the incoming force. Also what breath do you use when you dissolve. When you strike the breath goes outward. To uproot the breath comes in. To reel in and redirect the breath goes out. How should the breath be when you dissolve? Personally I believe if you inhale you are uprooting but if you exhale you can sink or fajin.

How ever speaking of Dissolving one should be rooted in the feet,
generated from the legs, controlled by the waist, and manifested through the fingers. The body acts as one unit to dissolve incoming force. I see what you mean by withdrawing however. it is the opposite of advancing. If you are sticking to your opponent and feel him advance with great force you withdraw while still maintaining connection. This is how you release force via withdrawing. So first you must yield to force before you can disslove. Would you agree hendrik. When you sense hard force coming on your bridge you must first be soft to yield. If you return hard for hard then you are fighting incoming force. This is resisting. But true WC is not about resisting force with force. Its about turning off force, Its about redirecting energy and creating a whirlwind to send the force back to your opponent. Its about being a lever. If you feel pressure in your right arm empty your left arm, become soft. Allow your force to disappear. But I know the key is the breath. With the proper breath one can control force through their body. But one must be soft to defeat the strong.

Here is a great saying "Entice the opponent toward you by allowing him to advance, lightly and nimbly follow his incoming forcewithout disconnecting and without resisting. When his force reaches its ****hest extent,it will naturally become empty. The opponent can then be let go or countered at will.Maintain your central equilibrium."

So the key is attract to emptiness and disperse the energy. The entire body must be relaxed. Not one once of strength is left in bones,muscles and sinews.

[Yoshiyahu]

Your description is not what I mean, also it is too complicated and too much thoughts.

Please share in simpler terms what do mean as for Dissolving force?

1.Also what breath do you use for uprooting and dissolving?

2.When you can turn force to emptiness or nothingness is the same as dissolving force?

3.How do you dissolve force with Sil Lim Tau?

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Upon further reflection, I think Hendrik is alluding to IMA skills along the lines of Xing Yi's San Ti training. I never heard the word "dissolve" used to explain it, but I guess it could apply to the idea of dissolving the intent of one's opponent, as well as dissolving the blockages between one's own senses, form, and intent.

[Hendrik]

Please share in simpler terms what do mean as for Dissolving force?

1.Also what breath do you use for uprooting and dissolving?

2.When you can turn force to emptiness or nothingness is the same as dissolving force?

3.How do you dissolve force with Sil Lim Tau?


Find a sifu who knows to train you instead of keep spinning your mind , misleading yourself, and wasting life.

[Hendrik]

Upon further reflection, I think Hendrik is alluding to IMA skills along the lines of Xing Yi's San Ti training. I never heard the word "dissolve" used to explain it, but I guess it could apply to the idea of dissolving the intent of one's opponent, as well as dissolving the blockages between one's own senses, form, and intent.



intent is punch, punch is intention, physical is intention, intention is physical.

Nature got no label of Xing Yi, Bagua.......ect.
and Reality is not a speculation according to anyone's logical thinking.

When you think dissolving you already use mind and that is artifacts non nature.

[Yoshiyahu]

intent is punch, punch is intention, physical is intention, intention is physical.

Nature got no label of Xing Yi, Bagua.......ect.
and Reality is not a speculation according to anyone's logical thinking.

When you think dissolving you already use mind and that is artifacts non nature.

what is dissolving? what is the intention?

When I asked you questions to discuss what the heck you are talking about you say


Find a sifu who knows to train you instead of keep spinning your mind , misleading yourself, and wasting life.
Today 03:19 PM

Why not discuss these things. You seem free to share speculation but share what you know my friend. Share the answer to Song of Flow. An is the key. Please tell me what is dissolve...What is the song of Yi the song of Intention Please share?

[Yoshiyahu]

In Your opinion what are the key mechanics needed to be able to dissolve incoming force, and please don't give the same old answer of go bai si. This is a messageboard for discussion.

kungfufighter the key components you need are to dissolve incoming force is to basai and asked your sifu! You need to practice what your sifu tells you. That is key to dissolving incoming force...





By none other than the infamous
Hendrik Bullcrapper

[Xiao3 Meng4]

...unless your sifu doesn't have t3h r34a1 |)|5501\/3 from 1850.

Then you're f*cked.

[Hendrik]

...unless your sifu doesn't have t3h r34a1 |)|5501\/3 from 1850.

Then you're f*cked.



Sure, that is life everyone needs to face.

[Yoshiyahu]

Sure, that is life everyone needs to face.

What is something everyone needs to face?

[Xiao3 Meng4]

What is something everyone needs to face?

Death.

Any other riddles? Here's one:

What's greater than the greatest
Less than the least
The rich need it
The poor have it
And if you eat it you will die?

[Yoshiyahu]

wow thats morbid buddy...ha ha...but so true...


So whats something from your view point that can excels ones WC????


What are some elements people should study,practice and meditate on...



Death.

Any other riddles? Here's one:

What's greater than the greatest
Less than the least
The rich need it
The poor have it
And if you eat it you will die?

[Xiao3 Meng4]

wow thats morbid buddy...ha ha...but so true...


So whats something from your view point that can excels ones WC????


What are some elements people should study,practice and meditate on...

I don't find it morbid at all.

From my point of view, excellence in any endeavour must start with diligent practice and mastery of the basics. I find most people move on to advanced theory and training too quickly. A strong foundation will allow for effective advanced Wing Chun; if someone does not adequately master the basics, then even if they know the advanced stuff, they can and most likely will be defeated by someone who just knows the basics but knows them really well.

"The Basics" are stuff like your basic targets and strikes, basic parries/deflections/blocks, basic clinching/unclinching, basic stances and footwork, basic fitness, basic focus/coordination/balance/sensitivity/timing... Basically what you'd learn in your first year.

Of course, sparring is necessary, and if you're into the spiritual/health aspects, so is meditation and qigong.

[Yoshiyahu]

i agree the basics are the key...


in your opinion once you have mastered the basics. Should you revisit them from time to time? If so what is your take on the time period of training basics...Also do you believe there is a time when basics should be studied no more?




I don't find it morbid at all.

From my point of view, excellence in any endeavour must start with diligent practice and mastery of the basics. I find most people move on to advanced theory and training too quickly. A strong foundation will allow for effective advanced Wing Chun; if someone does not adequately master the basics, then even if they know the advanced stuff, they can and most likely will be defeated by someone who just knows the basics but knows them really well.

"The Basics" are stuff like your basic targets and strikes, basic parries/deflections/blocks, basic clinching/unclinching, basic stances and footwork, basic fitness, basic focus/coordination/balance/sensitivity/timing... Basically what you'd learn in your first year.

Of course, sparring is necessary, and if you're into the spiritual/health aspects, so is meditation and qigong.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

i agree the basics are the key...


in your opinion once you have mastered the basics. Should you revisit them from time to time?
Yes. Often.


Also do you believe there is a time when basics should be studied no more?

No. Revisiting the basics will allow you to view them in a more experienced light.

[Yoshiyahu]

Yes. Often.



No. Revisiting the basics will allow you to view them in a more experienced light.

Thank you very much...I to agree here with what you saying...

but some like Terrence Niehoff believe the basics are like training wheels. That you need not to wear again once you learn how to ride a bike!

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Thank you very much...I to agree here with what you saying...

but some like Terrence Niehoff believe the basics are like training wheels. That you need not to wear again once you learn how to ride a bike!

First, it depends what "basics" Terrence was talking about. Should you do single actions for the rest of your training career? Should you always look to unclinch? I don't think so.

The "basics" I'm talking about are more like core skills and abilities. Taking the bike riding as an example, I certainly did not stop learning to ride once the training wheels came off. Every time I got on the bike, I learned a little bit more. Eventually, biking became second nature, and I began to attempt jumps, wheelies, and so on.

In Martial Arts, if you want to call drills the "training wheels" and sparring "taking the wheels off," then the same applies. I wouldn't increase the tools in my toolkit until I was sure that I could use the tools I already had as naturally as reaching for a glass of water when thirsty, or riding a bicycle without needing to concentrate on the act of riding. One way to do that is to develop my use of them under pressure, such as in sparring for example.

So, I guess the truth of the issue probably lies somewhere in between our two perspectives: The basics must be attended to beyond the "training wheel" stage, but there comes a point when the basics become natural, effortless, like reaching for that drink. At that point, it might be time to move beyond/outside your comfort level: attempt that jump, hold that wheelie, pull off that new strategy/tactic/technique... and when that becomes second nature, move beyond it again.

Throughout it all, keep working on those core ideas such as health and fitness, too.

[Tao Of The Fist]

Death.

Any other riddles? Here's one:

What's greater than the greatest
Less than the least
The rich need it
The poor have it
And if you eat it you will die?

Nothing. Nothing at all.

[ErnieWong]

I like Xiao3 Meng4 's take on Basics. One of my teachers constantly tells me that all his power comes from training the basics. Without them, he couldn't pull off the more advanced things. He also says that the Core basics are the advanced things.

Back to Dissolve - I am also confused by Hendrik. I am not bashing him and think he knows a lot, but he feels like a stereotypical psychologist or monk in all those movies I watch. They kind of cause frustration and force you to think or let go and after many of your own self trials and time, you finally understand them. The funny thing is that he's not the teacher and then he tells you to find one. If he's not the teacher, I feel he shouldn't pose the question. If he's not willing to guide you, he shouldn't pose the question. Once you've posed the question, you've taken the responsibility for the conclusion. Especially if we have found a teacher and they can't answer either. Some of the people here on the forums are teachers themselves and can't answer the question. I really wonder if Hendrik has the answer either, if he doesn't guide us to the answer. We don't need him to give the answer but some guidance might help.

Anyway here are my 2 cents about Dissolve. What I understand from this term is that if someone has touched you, instead of redirecting the force, we kind of cancel it out. Taking away the form and energy, kind of. I'm not sure if I'm saying it right though.

So imagine some guy puts both of his hands on both of my shoulders and intends to shove me. If I redirect, I will let his energy continue in another direction. I can pivot and guide him to either side with my hands, away from my body.

If I resist, I will just sink down in my horse, root and maybe lean a tiny bit in their direction to move my mass over a new center of gravity between the 2 of us. Not so much that if he lets go, I will fall forward though.

If I withdraw, I will take a step back and he will push nothing.

(Or I can withdraw enough so that he can not affect me and stay in contact with his hands. Then at the furthest extension of his hands where he can no longer exert force, I will bring his hands off the original direction and send his body with them.)

If I dissolve, I need very good sensitivity and timing. When he exerts his force, he will gather energy from the ground and into his hands for the push. His intent is already set at his hands and feels stable with a tiny push forward. Before I take the full brunt of his force, I cut off his power so his technique cannot be fully realized. To do this I can Pak both his hands off of me from the inside, or I can come with both hands from the outside and bring down his elbows which can also bring his body downwards with 2 Chum Saus, downward Fook Saus, Gang Saus, Gwaht Saus, Kau Sau or Huen Saus, Jut Saus, etc. all with the intent of Sinking the Elbows (Chum Jarng). In my opinion, the second part of withdraw could also count as dissolve as long as we don't disengage.

The only other idea I have about dissolve, is if I let someone hit me and I take it with little or no effect on my body. If you believe in Qigong, then this might be the answer. But I believe Siu Nim Tau has impact on this and I don't think so because everyone thinks there is a Qigong set in SNT.

My Sifu always taught me to relax in SNT. The way we move in the first section is extremely slow, especially when we do the Tan, Huen, Wu, Fook area. We should move as slowly as the big hand (Minute hand) on the clock. That one area for us could last at least 10 minutes for both hands. Our bodies are so tired from holding those positions up that we slowly start reducing the use of unnecessary muscles. I guess this is "Fang Song" or relaxing in one respect. We still need to move, but only using the bare minimum needed. Slowly the rest of our body does that.

After I started to realize I was kind of loose but this got taken away in Chi Sau when I got punched in the chest. It hurt! Basically I tensed up and provided a hard surface for someone to hit. This also happens if I hold my breath in. If my body was relaxed, it wouldn't hurt so much. So I tried an experiment to see if I could feel the difference. I let my friend hit me and when I saw it coming, I couldn't help but tense up. It hurt. So then I closed my eyes but I still felt scared and tense. To relieve that tension I started to count with my eyes closed. I concentrated on counting and when the hit came, it hurt but not as much. Actually, my voice got louder on impact and that expulsion of air also helped reduce the pain. After that experience I didn't mind getting hit on the chest and got far less bruises.

What do you guys think. Please don't slam me too hard, I'm a newbie to this board hehehe.

[Hendrik]

Back to Dissolve - I am also confused by Hendrik. I am not bashing him and think he knows a lot, but he feels like a stereotypical psychologist or monk in all those movies I watch. They kind of cause frustration and force you to think or let go and after many of your own self trials and time, you finally understand them. The funny thing is that he's not the teacher and then he tells you to find one. If he's not the teacher, I feel he shouldn't pose the question. If he's not willing to guide you, he shouldn't pose the question. Once you've posed the question, you've taken the responsibility for the conclusion. Especially if we have found a teacher and they can't answer either. Some of the people here on the forums are teachers themselves and can't answer the question. I really wonder if Hendrik has the answer either, if he doesn't guide us to the answer. We don't need him to give the answer but some guidance might help.

.

Why second guessing ?

since you are in Shang Hai,
visit the top notch TaiJi IMA sifu in Shang Hai and tell him what Hendrik said. ask him to let you feel his resistance, withdraw , and dissolve. Then, post.

[ErnieWong]

I'm confused by your response. I thought we were talking about Ving Tsun, not Internal Martial Arts.

I have felt my Taiji teacher's expression of dissolve. He let me hit him and it felt like hitting sand. The harder I hit him, the more I was getting nowhere.

When I pushed him, his body went limp and I couldn't get a grip on him. When I invade his space, he loosens my grip and pushes me away.

[ErnieWong]

Sorry my computer crashed before I finished my post. I said that I felt my teacher's expression. I never said he said it was dissolve. I never thought of asking about dissolve until now, but I will.

But he's a Taiji teacher, I still don't understand how that relates to Ving Tsun. I don't think that using Taiji mechanics to dissect Ving Tsun is a good way to do so. We might find similarities but it's different. If you have to always look outside the system, how well do you know your own.

So Hendrik, I'd like to ask a favor. Please tell me how my answers are wrong. I can only learn from my mistakes. I am open to criticism, but you didn't give any.

This is only what I feel. If you pose a question like you did and you're truly looking for an answer, then you must help in the pursuit of the answer. If you already know the answer, then why pose the question. If you posed the question to help others gain insight, you must guide. It feels like you don't know the answer and you know what the answer isn't, but you'll know it if you see it. If that's the case, then please be honest.

[Yoshiyahu]

Ernie Wong the answer to your Question that Hendrik will provide is here


http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=967373&postcount=37

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=967614&postcount=40

[Hendrik]

Are you discussing with me or I must subject to your view?

and may be I think laterally instead of your vertical thinking?

Not to mention, in an action, there is no Taiji or Ving Tsun but natural action phenomenon.

Taiji and Wing Chun are just a finger pointing to the moon. If you get trap into the name you stuck.

IMHO.

You are chinese right? you watch those martial art TV drama? ask yourself, when two advance players make contact via their arms, what happen to the side who cant evoke the power the other side can? So, there is no taiji mechanics or BJJ mechanics..... can one sustain and dealing with the incoming force vectors in that contact. that determine kung fu.

also, if others throw a curve ball at you can you catch it? Resistance, Withdraw, and Dissolve are three phenomenons in manipulate force vectors, is your body without using your mind use to them? using your mind is too late.





Sorry my computer crashed before I finished my post. I said that I felt my teacher's expression. I never said he said it was dissolve. I never thought of asking about dissolve until now, but I will.

But he's a Taiji teacher, I still don't understand how that relates to Ving Tsun. I don't think that using Taiji mechanics to dissect Ving Tsun is a good way to do so. We might find similarities but it's different. If you have to always look outside the system, how well do you know your own.

So Hendrik, I'd like to ask a favor. Please tell me how my answers are wrong. I can only learn from my mistakes. I am open to criticism, but you didn't give any.

This is only what I feel. If you pose a question like you did and you're truly looking for an answer, then you must help in the pursuit of the answer. If you already know the answer, then why pose the question. If you posed the question to help others gain insight, you must guide. It feels like you don't know the answer and you know what the answer isn't, but you'll know it if you see it. If that's the case, then please be honest.

[Hendrik]

Ernie Wong the answer to your Question that Hendrik will provide is here


http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=967373&postcount=37

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=967614&postcount=40


I have a dozen sifus who I baisi with because I am clueless, so what's wrong with telling you my experience?

[Yoshiyahu]

I have a dozen sifus who I baisi with because I am clueless, so what's wrong with telling you my experience?

You have dozens of Sifu's and you are forever learning but never coming into the knowledge of truth huh?

[Hendrik]

You have dozens of Sifu's and you are forever learning but never coming into the knowledge of truth huh?

Truth comes with different levels. The same practice has many depth.

Jim can tell you more.

[ErnieWong]

First things first, Yoshiyahu, great replies!! I was expecting that answer as well.

To Hendrik - So if all methods are the same to the ultimate goal, then why post in the Ving Tsun section? Why claim that the Fuk Sau can not dissolve? Isn't that hypocritical? Once you use Ving Tsun to prove that Ving Tsun doesn't have something, you are not pointing at the moon - that ultimate goal. You are trying to see if the path that you have chosen is right.

Like I said before, I think you have a lot of kung fu. Most people here, including me, don't understand you. You could be at a level that we're not on yet, but that means that you are there by yourself. Posing these questions is a means to get people to your level, but you have problems with languaging what you really want.

You could say that I'm narrow minded but I'm only being truthful to my own path of Ving Tsun. I have also started to study Taiji in my spare time but I'm not clouded by the ultimate goals. Sometimes observing the path on my journey is more worthwhile and if I ever achieve a goal, it wasn't by force but naturally. I just like learning and have no qualms with other's paths. I feel "to each their own."

Please don't take this the wrong way - Hendrik.
If you have many Sifus, to find answers, we could say that you are a jack of all trades but a master of none. I know that in today's world you have to make the most of your time to get what you want. But truly dedicating yourself to one thing takes much more endurance and dedication. If you say that you are truly a master of something, then there should be no questions because you've reached your goal. If you aren't a master and constantly change paths to find what you are looking for then you will never reach your goal. Mostly because once you hit a roadblock, you change paths and never stay long enough to understand why your path was obstructed.

(Only my Opinions below.)
Yes, I'm Chinese, but that makes no difference. My Ving Tsun teacher is Filipino. I've known many great martial artists who aren't Chinese. Also reality check here, in the Chinese Martial Arts Dramas, people can fly or make things explode with their Qi. If I believed that to be true, I'd be living in a fantasy world.

I've read many articles and forums about true masters. Most of the true masters who have an exceptionally high level of skill usually study one thing. Yip Man with Ving Tsun. Morihei Ueshiba with Aikijiujitsu -->Aikido. Almost all the Taiji masters before the 1930s. Dong Hai Chuan with Bagua. If there were masters who studied different things, it's because they felt it could complement the system they already learned not to combine two of them because their original system lacked something.

Also, just to make one more point. I'm Chinese, I have not "Bai Si" to anyone yet. I've only had 2 teachers who took me as students, but I never entered their doors as disciples. That's of my choice, because there is a saying (I hope my Chinese is right because I'm an ABC with low Chinese Language skills), "一日为师，终身为父“ (Mandarin - yi ri wei shi, zhong shen wei fu / Cantonese - Yaht yut wai shi, zong sang wai fu) Literally translates to, "One day as a teacher, a lifetime as a father". Roughly translates to, "If you are my Sifu for one day, you will be my father for life." Once I Bai Si or become a disciple that means I am my teacher's son and he is my ceremonial father. I have a father in my secular life. I can have one more for my martial or spiritual life. So I count 2. To have multiple Bai Si's and discipleships is like having dozens of fathers. Who should I be loyal to? Which one should I take care of? Can I be close to one father but not so much to another. As a Chinese, person, I take Bai Si / discipleship as something more important than others because most Western Cultures don't have the same thing. At least not that I know of. To take it lightly, IN MY OPINION, feels like I'm disrespectful to my own culture.

But, if you have asked all your Sifus if you could become another person's disciple, maybe that's OK. But If they feel the same way I do about this ceremony, that could be one reason they haven't given you any satisfactory answers. As a culture, we are still very traditional and somewhat secretive. If I was a Sifu and took on a disciple, I would think he would be like my adopted son. If he asked to have another adopted father, I would think that my adopted son doesn't want to be part of my family. Why should I give him all that I have? He will just take it and give it all away as if it were nothing special.

Being secretive could be why we many kung fu styles or secrets have disappeared. I think we should change it, but we can only hope for change, not force it. It would be impossible and disrespectful to force your teacher to give you everything you want.

Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone and their views. I welcome your criticisms and will not take offense to anything you say. I will try to understand yours and hopefully by expressing my views, we can work together to find answers. But if we don't cooperate with each other, these boards will be useless. It would only be a place to argue, belittle, or demean others. IMO, that is not productive. So I think the best way for us to work together to get the answers is to offer answers which we can deliberate on instead of comments that make no sense to most people.

I am only trying to express my views and not try to change your own. If it seems that way, I apologize. I too am seeking answers, and don't claim to have any.

[Hendrik]

Jim,

You want to help me to response? hahaha

You might have a more neutra position.




First things first, Yoshiyahu, great replies!! I was expecting that answer as well.

To Hendrik - So if all methods are the same to the ultimate goal, then why post in the Ving Tsun section? Why claim that the Fuk Sau can not dissolve? Isn't that hypocritical? Once you use Ving Tsun to prove that Ving Tsun doesn't have something, you are not pointing at the moon - that ultimate goal. You are trying to see if the path that you have chosen is right.

Like I said before, I think you have a lot of kung fu. Most people here, including me, don't understand you. You could be at a level that we're not on yet, but that means that you are there by yourself. Posing these questions is a means to get people to your level, but you have problems with languaging what you really want.

You could say that I'm narrow minded but I'm only being truthful to my own path of Ving Tsun. I have also started to study Taiji in my spare time but I'm not clouded by the ultimate goals. Sometimes observing the path on my journey is more worthwhile and if I ever achieve a goal, it wasn't by force but naturally. I just like learning and have no qualms with other's paths. I feel "to each their own."

Please don't take this the wrong way - Hendrik.
If you have many Sifus, to find answers, we could say that you are a jack of all trades but a master of none. I know that in today's world you have to make the most of your time to get what you want. But truly dedicating yourself to one thing takes much more endurance and dedication. If you say that you are truly a master of something, then there should be no questions because you've reached your goal. If you aren't a master and constantly change paths to find what you are looking for then you will never reach your goal. Mostly because once you hit a roadblock, you change paths and never stay long enough to understand why your path was obstructed.

(Only my Opinions below.)
Yes, I'm Chinese, but that makes no difference. My Ving Tsun teacher is Filipino. I've known many great martial artists who aren't Chinese. Also reality check here, in the Chinese Martial Arts Dramas, people can fly or make things explode with their Qi. If I believed that to be true, I'd be living in a fantasy world.

I've read many articles and forums about true masters. Most of the true masters who have an exceptionally high level of skill usually study one thing. Yip Man with Ving Tsun. Morihei Ueshiba with Aikijiujitsu -->Aikido. Almost all the Taiji masters before the 1930s. Dong Hai Chuan with Bagua. If there were masters who studied different things, it's because they felt it could complement the system they already learned not to combine two of them because their original system lacked something.

Also, just to make one more point. I'm Chinese, I have not "Bai Si" to anyone yet. I've only had 2 teachers who took me as students, but I never entered their doors as disciples. That's of my choice, because there is a saying (I hope my Chinese is right because I'm an ABC with low Chinese Language skills), "一日为师，终身为父“ (Mandarin - yi ri wei shi, zhong shen wei fu / Cantonese - Yaht yut wai shi, zong sang wai fu) Literally translates to, "One day as a teacher, a lifetime as a father". Roughly translates to, "If you are my Sifu for one day, you will be my father for life." Once I Bai Si or become a disciple that means I am my teacher's son and he is my ceremonial father. I have a father in my secular life. I can have one more for my martial or spiritual life. So I count 2. To have multiple Bai Si's and discipleships is like having dozens of fathers. Who should I be loyal to? Which one should I take care of? Can I be close to one father but not so much to another. As a Chinese, person, I take Bai Si / discipleship as something more important than others because most Western Cultures don't have the same thing. At least not that I know of. To take it lightly, IN MY OPINION, feels like I'm disrespectful to my own culture.

But, if you have asked all your Sifus if you could become another person's disciple, maybe that's OK. But If they feel the same way I do about this ceremony, that could be one reason they haven't given you any satisfactory answers. As a culture, we are still very traditional and somewhat secretive. If I was a Sifu and took on a disciple, I would think he would be like my adopted son. If he asked to have another adopted father, I would think that my adopted son doesn't want to be part of my family. Why should I give him all that I have? He will just take it and give it all away as if it were nothing special.

Being secretive could be why we many kung fu styles or secrets have disappeared. I think we should change it, but we can only hope for change, not force it. It would be impossible and disrespectful to force your teacher to give you everything you want.

Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone and their views. I welcome your criticisms and will not take offense to anything you say. I will try to understand yours and hopefully by expressing my views, we can work together to find answers. But if we don't cooperate with each other, these boards will be useless. It would only be a place to argue, belittle, or demean others. IMO, that is not productive. So I think the best way for us to work together to get the answers is to offer answers which we can deliberate on instead of comments that make no sense to most people.

I am only trying to express my views and not try to change your own. If it seems that way, I apologize. I too am seeking answers, and don't claim to have any.

[JPinAZ]

Not to mention, in an action, there is no Taiji or Ving Tsun but natural action phenomenon.

Taiji and Wing Chun are just a finger pointing to the moon. If you get trap into the name you stuck.


Is that so? Then why, when you met a Weng Chun Master and he put you on your on your a$$, did you yell "that's not Wing Chun, that's not Wing Chun!!" ;)

[anerlich]

You could be at a level that we're not on yet,

Nope, that ain't it.

[k gledhill]

dissolving is clear enough for me

I'm not sure if the conventional shape of the fook sau can actually dissolve at all

fok sao is a neutral elbow...neither tan /jum/jut etc...relaxed elbow occupying the center loosely ..ie after a strike we recover our arm/elbow back immediately to fok sao 'thinking' relaxed .
The wrist is nothing to do with it, why the hand flops down because there is no energy in the wrist after doing vu sao, the focus is the alignment of the elbow /wrist relative to the c line as it moves out to its position in SLT / centerline training drills.


fok doesnt dissolve ;) if you dont understand the idea being developed you get ambiguous ideas...like standing in a drill doing fok dissolving energy cr&p :D. Think aggressive, attacking, flowing of techniques.

[Hardwork108]

Nope, that ain't it.

Yes it is, but perhaps you are not at a level to appreciate that fact. :)

HW8

[jooerduo]

fok sao is a neutral elbow...neither tan /jum/jut etc...relaxed elbow occupying the center loosely ..ie after a strike we recover our arm/elbow back immediately to fok sao 'thinking' relaxed .
The wrist is nothing to do with it, why the hand flops down because there is no energy in the wrist after doing vu sao, the focus is the alignment of the elbow /wrist relative to the c line as it moves out to its position in SLT / centerline training drills.


fok doesnt dissolve ;) if you dont understand the idea being developed you get ambiguous ideas...like standing in a drill doing fok dissolving energy cr&p :D. Think aggressive, attacking, flowing of techniques.



we need to go back and look at the meaning of the fook sau from chinese writing, and determine if your fook is doing what is intended by the written meaning

there's heaps of lineages out there, so plenty of different ways of doing things

[k gledhill]

Chinese writing is no guarantee of anything :D its all about the idea your developing....fok sao is simply a neutral elbow in a drilling environment. Trying to make it more that that and your going into the realms of, everything has a hidden use/ meaning ;)...

Like say...lau sao, the translation is to flip water out of a bucket with a hand /wrist/ twist , like a light spank on your girlfriends butt, with your elbow in....but the translation is meaningless without the WHOLE idea its basking in. Isolate it like "FOK SAO" and you get floppy hand , no idea is mentioned about the elbow development causing the 'fok hand'...SOOO everyone concentrates on the fook hand not the fook elbow, and yes you guessed it misses all that heavenly glory [ I love that film ] and your mind shifts to the wrists, hands, etc...no elbow theory...To much wristing chi-sao will develop a completely different VT fighter.

[Yoshiyahu]

Yes it is, but perhaps you are not at a level to appreciate that fact. :)

HW8

welcome back hardwork....

[Hardwork108]

welcome back hardwork....

Good to be back and good to see you, Yoshiyahu. :)

[Wayfaring]

Is that so? Then why, when you met a Weng Chun Master and he put you on your on your a$$, did you yell "that's not Wing Chun, that's not Wing Chun!!" ;)

Because he's at a level we're not on yet? A seated level?

[kung fu fighter]

Bong with turning horse is a redirection - sounds more like Hendrik's description of withdrawal.



yup. It doesnt dissolve the incoming forces.



Hua Jing - (Transforming Energy) Defense through absorbing the strength of a punch, redirecting its force, etc.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I never did like Chinese terminology because it is just too sketchy and has too many different interpretations. I just use my own terminology instead.
Absorbing energy or force to me is simply taking it full brunt and hoping for minimal damage. Disolving to me is simply taking away intent rather than dealing directly with the force. An example would be tinkering with ones balance or structure if you will when he is attempting to toss a punch or whatever. Once a punch is thrown, there is little you can do other than move out of the way or redirect it if possible. It is usually quicker and easier to redirect than to move your body more than simply shifting or turning.
I think what Hendrik is talking about is internal stuff. Hendrik, I think what people are looking to you for is an example of how this disolving of force is done. A hypothetical example maybe. One where you physically apply some technique to achieve this effect. You are way too vague in your comments, when a simple physical example might explain a great deal better.

[Hendrik]

I think what Hendrik is talking about is internal stuff. Hendrik, I think what people are looking to you for is an example of how this disolving of force is done. A hypothetical example maybe. One where you physically apply some technique to achieve this effect. You are way too vague in your comments, when a simple physical example might explain a great deal better.



1, there is nothing internal or external if one knows it. spiritual and meterialistic are non dual.

2, my pop corn filler analogy and force vectors description in the other post has a full description. but I cant force everyone to read it and comprehend it.

[JPinAZ]

Forget it LCP. Hendrik's made 3 videos that are on youtube where he could have demonstrated ANYTHING, but instead he spent 20 minutes sitting at a table talking on and on and on. And he has a student right there next to him that he could have stood up and partnered with.. :rolleyes:

Then in his 3rd vid, he has his student do their famous invisible great dane petting trick to everyone's amazement. But, still no partnering, no real demonstration of application or skill. Why? Because this guy is a joke that's slipped his straight jacket and wanders the internet spewing tai chi ideas mixed with some crane and who-knows-what-else.. It's all talk with him. And there's 20+ minutes of video, and 100's of incoherent posting by him to prove the fact.

Oh wait, sorry, my bad, he just gave us the missing key to WCK: pop corn filler. :eek:
:p

[Hendrik]

Great points, and dont watch it anymore. that simple.



Forget it LCP. Hendrik's made 3 videos that are on youtube where he could have demonstrated ANYTHING, but instead he spent 20 minutes sitting at a table talking on and on and on. And he has a student right there next to him that he could have stood up and partnered with.. :rolleyes:

Then in his 3rd vid, he has his student do their famous invisible great dane petting trick to everyone's amazement. But, still no partnering, no real demonstration of application or skill. Why? Because this guy is a joke that's slipped his straight jacket and wanders the internet spewing tai chi ideas mixed with some crane and who-knows-what-else.. It's all talk with him. And there's 20+ minutes of video, and 100's of incoherent posting by him to prove the fact.

Oh wait, sorry, my bad, he just gave us the missing key to WCK: pop corn filler. :eek:
:p

[kung fu fighter]

Hendrik, I think what people are looking to you for is an example of how this disolving of force is done. A hypothetical example maybe. One where you physically apply some technique to achieve this effect. You are way too vague in your comments, when a simple physical example might explain a great deal better.

Bingo!!!, I couldn't have said it any better. Hendrik perhaps you can make a youtube video of dissolve, hua jing and an jing.

[Hendrik]

Bingo!!!, I couldn't have said it any better. Hendrik perhaps you can make a youtube video of dissolve, hua jing and an jing.



KFF,

You know,
if you are serious,

donate $800 to the elderly home in you home town,

buy a plane ticket to san jose,

Show me your elederly home donation reciept,

spend one afternoon with me and I answer your question with no charge.

That way, you release and I am relif because I dont have to keep typing.

[Lee Chiang Po]

1, there is nothing internal or external if one knows it. spiritual and meterialistic are non dual.

2, my pop corn filler analogy and force vectors description in the other post has a full description. but I cant force everyone to read it and comprehend it.


Ok Hendrik, I have gone back and read your posts, and again, maybe you did actually give a full description of something, but for the life of me I do not see it. You refer to something, but do not give real and true examples of that reference. All I have asked you to do is to give an example of a move or technique that you would do or use in order to disolve force. That is not a great deal to ask, or is it? I am trying to understand what you are trying to say.
Now, this in no way means I am not in full knowledge of what I am doing. I have been a Wing Chun practitioner for over 50 years now, and I have taken it to many levels. I can explain to you anything I do in a way that you could understand it. I would expect that with all the years you have behind you that you could do the same. Why don't you even try?

[Hendrik]

All I have asked you to do is to give an example of a move or technique that you would do or use in order to disolve force.


Stand in any type of stance you feel best.
ask some one to put a palm on your chest and press.

those who knows how to dissolve force will be able to make the pusher/presser feel no against resistance on his push/press like press into a pop corn filler bag or a 100 lb water fill balloon.

As for how one could do that, that is alots of cultivation on how to handling the force pushing into his body, like using hand to accept an incoming basket ball without it bounce off due to resistance or opposition.

so, it is the mind and body are so well train that the body re-orient or accept the incoming force at will.

It is a full body re-orientation capability, it is not making a posture or rooting or sinking.






Now, this in no way means I am not in full knowledge of what I am doing.

There is nothing to do with your full knowledge.

Chinese martial arts are full of training technology which if one doesnt know one doesnt know because it is not one's expertise.

[JPinAZ]

Great points, and dont watch it anymore. that simple.

haha, I can't do that, this is too entertaining! Please, keep going, really! I'm bidding on some pop corn filler on ebay today :)

[Hendrik]

KFF,

This offer terminate now.





KFF,

You know,
if you are serious,

donate $800 to the elderly home in you home town,

buy a plane ticket to san jose,

Show me your elederly home donation reciept,

spend one afternoon with me and I answer your question with no charge.

That way, you release and I am relif because I dont have to keep typing.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Stand in any type of stance you feel best.
ask some one to put a palm on your chest and press.

those who knows how to dissolve force will be able to make the pusher/presser feel no against resistance on his push/press like press into a pop corn filler bag or a 100 lb water fill balloon.

As for how one could do that, that is alots of cultivation on how to handling the force pushing into his body, like using hand to accept an incoming basket ball without it bounce off due to resistance or opposition.

so, it is the mind and body are so well train that the body re-orient or accept the incoming force at will.

It is a full body re-orientation capability, it is not making a posture or rooting or sinking.






There is nothing to do with your full knowledge.

Chinese martial arts are full of training technology which if one doesnt know one doesnt know because it is not one's expertise.

OK, now that was not hard, was it. Yes, I fully understand what you are saying now. I do not use Chinese terminology however, and this I call, Rolling with the punch, or going with the flow. I have to say however, this is not something that can be done 100% of the time, in most cases it is just going to minumize the impact of a punch should it come full force.
When I was quite young, my older brothers taught me this aspact of WC. We did drills over and over and at least during the drills we were able to pull this off most of the time, especially if it was not a direct punch at close range. However, like I said, there would be times when it only minumized the impact somewhat, and other times it made it as if no contact was ever made. It does have an effect on your opponent when this works. It also helps to be able to anticipate what the guy is about to do.
I suppose that there are people that are really good at this, but it would take you a very long time to achieve and then it would again not be something you could do 100% of the time. It is much easier to do with push and shove then punch and kick.

[Hendrik]

THink about what can you do if you have this type of capability and others grap you.

How do you do it? Care to describe.



OK, now that was not hard, was it. Yes, I fully understand what you are saying now. I do not use Chinese terminology however, and this I call, Rolling with the punch, or going with the flow. I have to say however, this is not something that can be done 100% of the time, in most cases it is just going to minumize the impact of a punch should it come full force.
When I was quite young, my older brothers taught me this aspact of WC. We did drills over and over and at least during the drills we were able to pull this off most of the time, especially if it was not a direct punch at close range. However, like I said, there would be times when it only minumized the impact somewhat, and other times it made it as if no contact was ever made. It does have an effect on your opponent when this works. It also helps to be able to anticipate what the guy is about to do.
I suppose that there are people that are really good at this, but it would take you a very long time to achieve and then it would again not be something you could do 100% of the time. It is much easier to do with push and shove then punch and kick.