First moments of a fight?

[WoodenYummy]

Just curious, of those of you who HAVE had numerous fights/encounters, what is the first thing you do in either situation? If someone jumps you, and you don't see it coming, vs. a scenario where you can tell a fight is coming long before someone gets hit. Do you immediately pounce on the guy once you know a fight is inevitable? Do you wait for them to attack first and try to counter immediately? Or do you feel them out for a sec and try to size them up before commiting to a strategy? I know there are numerous other factors that can go into either situation, but as a general rule, what is your game plan/mind set in these scenarios, and what kind of success have you had with that? Thanks in advance for any input.

[k gledhill]

thats a lot of typing :D

[SAAMAG]

Getting into an altercation in “real life” is going to be much more dangerous than say something you’d see in your kwoon or in an MMA competition. There are so many uncontrolled and unknown variables that can present themselves, and as such there’s not going to be one fighting theory or maxim or rule-of-thumb that you can adhere to except maybe the one that says to stay clear of situations that may result in you getting into trouble in the first place.

For example, let’s say you’re at a shoddy looking gas station with some dudes sitting out front and one guy comes up to ask you for a cigarette. To which you reply you don’t smoke. Then he asks you for some money for a hamburger…to which you reply you don’t have any to spare.

Already at this point your internal alarm should be going off telling you that something’s awry. You should be aware of your surroundings, giving yourself space between you and the guy, and turning your body a little so that you’re at an angle to him. He then says in a more frustrated voice “I know you have money…you’re about to pay for gas!” He steps towards you a bit…what now?

To illustrate this, do you:

A. Preemptively chain punch his face in until he hits the ground and then flee?
B. Tackle him and go to full mount and then attempt to choke him out?
C. Stand your ground and wait for him to actually attack before you do anything?
D. Let him know to “take it easy and that you don’t want any trouble” while moving back?

[AdrianK]

Generally I've found the best way to handle the above situation is to just keep going about your business and keep an eye on your surroundings. If they aggressively pursue you, thats your cue to engage them. Standing your ground is going to provoke them, attacking them is going to get you some jail time, and backing down is going to present yourself as an easy target. IMHO.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Depends on the situation. If it is someone I who just dislike.

I am always conscious of weapons. examine their body and body language for weapons. If a weapon is presented or implied, attack and neutralized the weapon before it can be upholstered or unsheathed.

From there, punch and kick until the opponent is unconscious.

Run! Hanging around a fight scene gets you shot.

If it is an unknown or multiple assailants all of the above with a greater emphasis on techniques that can emotionalize in one shot.

When I bounced, I would concentrate on using standing grappling techniques to work them into a rear naked choke.

[Phil Redmond]

Just curious, of those of you who HAVE had numerous fights/encounters, what is the first thing you do in either situation? If someone jumps you, and you don't see it coming, vs. a scenario where you can tell a fight is coming long before someone gets hit. Do you immediately pounce on the guy once you know a fight is inevitable? Do you wait for them to attack first and try to counter immediately? Or do you feel them out for a sec and try to size them up before commiting to a strategy? I know there are numerous other factors that can go into either situation, but as a general rule, what is your game plan/mind set in these scenarios, and what kind of success have you had with that? Thanks in advance for any input.
WoodenYummy????? :eek:
To answer your question, you never know until it happens.

[Hardwork108]

WoodenYummy????? :eek:
To answer your question, you never know until it happens.

Good answer. I will just add that if one so perceptive that he can neutralize the assailant in good time, then perhaps he should be perceptive enough not to be there in the first place.

However, I guess that the thread starter assumes that you are there already and avoidance is not possible, in which case some basic strategies already mentioned by other posters may come handy as well as my favorite TCMA one, "if you don't move, I don't move, if you move, I first move" (the concept is deeper than it sounds).

Once the skills for this are mastered then you can take out the random assailant more effectively, but then the "talent" and the "sensitivity" involved in acquiring this skill take a long time (I am still working on mine).

HW108

[HumbleWCGuy]

Above I gave you some examples of how I feel about handling particular threat levels of opponents.

While you have to be open to all possibilities in a street fight, general themes emerge in street fighting. I recommend that you do your best to evaluate the situation which can happen on the fly during the fight.


1. Evaluate the threat level by scanning for weapons, number of, opponents and knowledge of opponent(s) (is the opponent skilled, highly criminal, a college kid?). Consider the environment. Are you walking down a dark alley or are you bouncing?

2. Select techniques and strategy based on the opponent's build, weapons, subtle displays of skill, prior knowledge of an opponent. Your instructor should be providing you with various situational fighting strategies. WC versus unskilled, WC unarmed versus weapon, WC versus boxer, WC versus whatever.

If your instructor doesn't discuss situations with you, I recommend that you start a journal of what you would do in particular situations. If this seems like a lot it is which is why you have to prepare in advance through journaling and meditation.



***Remember that legally you are only allowed to respond with equal force. From a survival perspective, "Strike hard! Strike first! No mercy sir!" But you are probably going to jail.

[Lee Chiang Po]

In the case that you might not have ever been in jail, it is a piece of cake. Sooner or later they will turn you loose. Equal force means that you can not use a weapon against another person unless they also have one. However, if there are multi assailants you are under multi threat, giving you more leway in this. Within reason of course. A stick would suffice, but a gun would not quite meet that criteria. If you have the fighting skills to inflict injury upon an unarmed assailant, you are only using equal force. A little bit more skilled maybe, but equal none the less.

LCP

[WoodenYummy]

OK, maybe my "lengthy" initial question wasn't clear enough... I agree with all the comments regarding situational awareness, and that you should avoid such situations when possible. But come on, these things happen precisely because all of us will find ourselves in those exact scenarios "once in a while" (car breaks down, getting out of a bar at night, walking down a city street after dark) Are we supposed to spend our nights indoors "just in case"?. I also appreciate the importance of knowing if the aggressor has a weapon, that thought is foremost in my own mind in EVERY instance (i.e. is this worth getting shot over). However, this is not really what I was asking about. Basically, what I was trying to suss out is whether or not you attack once you know a confrontation is imminent, or if you "move when they move". Legality aside, I know the law, and I know how it can be used against you. Alot of these responses show some serious thought before action is taken, while admirable, is it realistic? I've been jumped on two occassions, in other words I did NOT see a fight coming beforehand, so there was no time to think. Guys begging for change, or approaching you on the street are obvious signs to be aware, but sometimes you are blindsided. And Phil, you're just NOW noticing my name??? We talked back and forth for several months last year! lol My first Sifu used to tell us, once you smell a fight coming, take the initiative, this will give you the element of surprise and turn the aggressor into the defender. I was just curious, while I KNOW there are endless factors and variables in a fight, it would seem that having a few distilled ideas/approaches on which action to take would be useful, I could be wrong...

[couch]

I've been jumped on two occassions, in other words I did NOT see a fight coming beforehand, so there was no time to think. Guys begging for change, or approaching you on the street are obvious signs to be aware, but sometimes you are blindsided.

Getting ambushed is a common attack tactic. The only thing you can do is have an awareness about you so mitigate any such attack. But that's about it. The rest has to be left up to instinct and your ability to cover up and run/fight back given the amount of cognition you have left after being hit.

That's the reality of it.

[Lucas]

i concur.

ive been in these situations a few times in my past. the last time that escelated to a physical encounter was several years ago and i was able to recognize the threat in time.

i flipped this guy off for calling me a *** because i wouldnt give him a cigarrette. (wow, i guess it was about 7 years ago i quit that long ago) well, smart me didnt pay attention to the fact that this guy was drinking with his friends in his lawn. him and one guy come out to confront me, so i turn to face them ( i had a skateboard) and began walking backwards up the sidewalk to lengthen the distance between us and their remaining friends who stayed on the property. one was talking mad **** and i kept walking backwards. the guy that wasnt talking was keeping his hand in his pocket. im thinking knife or gun, luckily i never found out. well the guy talking all the **** with his 4 teeth, braggin that he was going back to prison in a week anyway took a punch at my stomach. i was holding my board by the trucks with the grip tape facing dude. automatic reaction i brought my board down on this wrist, lol suprising both of us. at that point i swung my boad hard at the other guys head, the guy with his hand in his pocket. he went down. the remaining guy took off running and so did i in the opposite direction. lol. in hindsight i really wanted to remove the last of his cracked out teeth. so that bummed me out.

legalities, unfortunately, were not even in the equation when it came game time. not even a passing thought. the only thing i was thinking was: weapon, skateboard, head, run.

my mistake? responding to the *******s in the first place. had i not responded to the provocation nothing would have happened at all. an even better response would probably have been to just give the guy a smoke.

funny ending: I saw the guy with the cracked out teeth a week later at the train station and he asked me for a smoke. it was obvious he didnt reckognize me. i gave him a smoke and chuckled on the inside.

[Hardwork108]

my mistake? responding to the *******s in the first place. had i not responded to the provocation nothing would have happened at all. an even better response would probably have been to just give the guy a smoke.

We are all human but at least you looked back and examined what had happened and therefore took something away from the whole incident. The truth is that more often than not one can walk away from, or defuse, such confrontations.

HW108

[Lucas]

indeed. looking back that was my last escelated confrontation. 7 years aint bad!

probably just means im overdue :(

[Hardwork108]

indeed. looking back that was my last escelated confrontation. 7 years aint bad!

probably just means im overdue :(

Let's hope not.

Violent confrontations are best avoided because most of the possible outcomes can work against you even if you win (more so, in the part of the world that I live), not to mention the implications one's karma.

HW108

[Lee Chiang Po]

All men like to be treated with respect. No matter their financial or social situation. By not treating them in a rude and disrespectful manner you can avoid many bad situations. However, there are those that prey upon others in various ways. They feel that certain people are fearful of them and so they try to take advantage of this.
This can turn into something nasty, so just remember, when it comes to getting hurt, better he than thee.

LCP

[imperialtaichi]

WoodenYummy????? :eek:
To answer your question, you never know until it happens.

Phil, I just love your one-liners :)

[grasshopper 2.0]

it's true though - you never know when it hits. It's kinda paradoxical. you train for these instances, but from what I've noticed, most fights start with some kind of sucker punch or blind shot so that the victim never sees it coming. This makes "street-sense" IMO..but unfortunately, you'll get hit no matter what UNLESS

you hit first.

or you're not stunned hard enough the first time and can then fight back (this is what has happened to me).

But in my experience, it's really rare where you're able to really see it coming or observe the environment or whatever..usually this is the case if the attacker himself isn't sure if he's going to fight and is just puffin' and huffin for show.

If the attacker intends to hit, he'll hit..and when you're not looking. When's a better time, right?

[Phil Redmond]

Phil, I just love your one-liners :)
Thanks, I try . . ;)