Communist China

[1bad65]

So our President is in Asia and he calls for China to stop censorship. The Chinese respond by censoring his speech! Gee, who saw this coming? They are friggin communists you idiot! Did he miss that little incident in Tianenmen Square a few years ago? They put people in political prisons, they kill people for protesting the government, they kill you for trying to leave. Heck, they even got busted trying to sell organs taken from executed political prisoners! Yet liberals keep treating them with kid gloves....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091116/ap_on_re_as/as_obama_china_internet

[xcakid]

HAHA...Obama asking to stop censorship!! Yet he wants to censor the media here in the US and looks to destroy varous ammendments to the US Constitution.

He has room to talk. ******* deserved it. :D

[Pork Chop]

HAHA...Obama asking to stop censorship!! Yet he wants to censor the media here in the US and looks to destroy varous ammendments to the US Constitution.

He has room to talk. ******* deserved it. :D

not that i'm liberal or conservative, but after the last administration, a conservative really has no business throwing stones at someone for trying to wipe their a$$ with the constitution.... just sayin....

[1bad65]

not that i'm liberal or conservative, but after the last administration, a conservative really has no business throwing stones at someone for trying to wipe their a$$ with the constitution.... just sayin....

Conservatives were not exactly thrilled by the last administration either.

[Pork Chop]

Conservatives were not exactly thrilled by the last administration either.

the distinction between true conservative and neocon is all well and fine, but he did come out of your political party base

[1bad65]

the distinction between true conservative and neocon is all well and fine, but he did come out of your political party base

Not mine. I voted for Alan Keyes, the conservative, in the primaries. Last time I voted for Ron Paul in the primaries. I'm a conservative first, not a Republican.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So our President is in Asia and he calls for China to stop censorship. The Chinese respond by censoring his speech! Gee, who saw this coming? They are friggin communists you idiot! Did he miss that little incident in Tianenmen Square a few years ago? They put people in political prisons, they kill people for protesting the government, they kill you for trying to leave. Heck, they even got busted trying to sell organs taken from executed political prisoners! Yet liberals keep treating them with kid gloves....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091116/ap_on_re_as/as_obama_china_internet

They are obviously intimidated by the sheer number of full bladders that they can be facing from atop of the Great Wall !!

[GeneChing]

The only bummer is it would only be funny now, while Obama is in China.

Emily Chang, CNN Reporter, Detained In Shanghai Over Obama-Mao T-Shirt (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/17/emily-chang-cnn-reporter_n_360360.html)
First Posted: 11-17-09 09:10 AM | Updated: 11-17-09 02:05 PM

(AP) Orders to prevent sales of T-shirts showing Obama dressed like communist revolutionary Mao Zedong are in force during the president's visit -- and Chinese officials mean it, as a CNN reporter found out.

Correspondent Emily Chang reported that she went searching for Oba-Mao souvenirs at Shanghai's Yatai Xinyang market. Finding none, she pulled out a T-shirt she bought before the ban was imposed to record a report in the market.

Security guards pounced, telling her she did not have permission to film there and trying to grab the shirt, according to a report on CNN's Web site.

Chang was detained for two hours before being let go, with the shirt, the report said.

A cottage industry in T-shirts and other Oba-Mao trinkets catering mainly to foreign tourists has thrived in recent months. Bans such as the one that commercial regulators ordered in recent weeks are usually temporary. When U.S. or European government officials come to Beijing for trade talks, local markets typically remove copies of brand-name designer clothes -- until the foreign negotiators leave town.


November 16, 2009
'Communist Obama' T-shirt tussle (http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/16/obama-communist-t-shirt-tussle/)
Posted: 1615 GMT

Beijing, China - It's just a T-shirt. Or so we thought.

Our search for the so-called "communist Obama" T-shirt began with a capable intern scouring markets in Beijing. It depicts U.S. President Barack Obama wearing a Red Army uniform, the "Chinese communist-style" outfit made famous by Chairman Mao. On the front it says, "Serve the People" in Chinese. On the back, "Oba-Mao" in English.

Our first scan of Beijing turned up nothing. But a tip led us to the basement of Shin Kong Place. In an unassuming souvenir shop, we found a T-shirt in extra-large. During our flight from Beijing to Shanghai to cover the president's arrival, a news blitz indicated the shirts had been "banned" by the Chinese government amid worries that they may offend the American president.

Thank goodness we'd gotten ours in time!

But there was no way to confirm the government had indeed taken the shirts off the shelves, so we decided to check for ourselves. We headed to Yatai Xinyang market at a Shanghai metro stop in search of Obama-branded merchandise.

The Chinese also make wallets and trading cards featuring the "Communist Obama" image.

We found nothing but could not be sure they hadn't sold them there before. So, I chose that opportune moment to do a piece to camera with the shirt in hand. Bad move? Maybe. But it ended up being great television.

Two security guards happened to pass by at the moment I announced to the camera: "This is the T-shirt everybody is talking about." And that was it. They scrambled toward us and tried to pry the shirt out of my hands. I didn't give in.

Technically, we did not have permission to film in the market. And the security guards scolded us for not getting permission ahead of time.

There was a bit of yelling and quite a scuffle. My producer Jo Kent emphatically stated our case. Photographer Miguel Castro kept his cool. By this point, we had everything on tape.

We ended up being detained for two hours in the cold maze of a market. A crowd gathered round. More security and then police showed up. They wanted our press cards, our passports, but most of all, they wanted the shirt.

Ultimately, they confirmed that we were indeed "real" journalists (that is legally reporting in China.) But that didn't stop them from scolding us and making it very difficult to leave. After asking repeatedly and then one last time for the shirt, I refused.

Finally, they let us go. Phew!

It was worth it. The shirt got attention on the air and sparked buzz online. In fact, some members of the White House pool and a few colleagues in Atlanta actually tried to bribe me for it.

Nothing like juxtaposing communism and democracy in more ways than one. Just another day on the job.

[18elders]

"They are friggin communists you idiot! Did he miss that little incident in Tianenmen Square a few years ago?"


We are not communists so what was our excuse for Kent State??

The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent-State massacre,[2][3][4] occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of unarmed college students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]

Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. However, other students who were shot had merely been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7]

Pretty soon China will own us.

[1bad65]

We are not communists so what was are excuse for Kent State??

Well first off, the same people in charge here during that incident are not in power. Nixon resigned because he knew he would lose the next ELECTION.

In China, the same people who ordered the tanks and troops in are still in charge, and they have never had to face the voters, because just like EVERY OTHER Communist nation they do not have free elections.

Also, our press is free to show footage of Kent State at any time. The press in China is not free to show footage of the Tianenmen Square massacre without government permission.

[BoulderDawg]

Nixon resigned because he knew he would lose the next ELECTION.

Is there anyone out there that would care to tell this guy that Nixon was in his second term and could not run in, much less lose, the next "ELECTION".:D

Nixon resigned because he would have been impeached. He had just lost key GOP support in congress. There is also talk that Nixon even considered using his powers as commander in chief of the military to stay in power.

[18elders]

how can one criticize others when they have done the same?

[mawali]

HAHA...Obama asking to stop censorship!! Yet he wants to censor the media here in the US and looks to destroy varous ammendments to the US Constitution.

He has room to talk. ******* deserved it. :D

xc,

You have spoken an untruth!
As a conservative person who strives to uphold decent values, I note that Obama has NEVER censored the media or attempted to do so through constitutional or other means. He has a right to speak like any other citizen and as some have stated, he can choose who he wants to deliver a message like any other citizens of USA. That is freedom!
He has refused to talk to certain media outlets but he is free to do that as he wishes! This is what makes US the best nation on the planet.
Big deal! We have debt, unemployment, foreclosures but we live in America!
Isn't this the best?

We do not jail people in America like China does so we are still far ahead,
God Bless America

[1bad65]

how can one criticize others when they have done the same?

Did I censor people? Did I send tanks in to crush people just wanting basic human rights?

I'm confused as to what your post meant. Please explain it, and I'll reply to that.

[1bad65]

xc,

You have spoken an untruth!
As a conservative person who strives to uphold decent values, I note that Obama has NEVER censored the media or attempted to do so through constitutional or other means.

Actually he did use "other means".

"Last Thursday, the Treasury Department attempted to conduct a briefing for the media with Kenneth Feinberg, the Obama administration's executive pay czar, without including Fox News. The other major networks protested, and the administration promptly relented.

The Obama administration acted foolishly. The major networks - the folks Fox likes to term derisively as the "mainstream media" - were correct to stand up for Fox. In a democracy, government "doesn't get to pick and choose who covers the government," to quote Ms. Palmer quoting a fomer Sun editor.

In recent weeks, the White House has become more critical of Fox News. President Obama has not appeared on Fox talk shows. Communications Director Anita Dunn has spoken out against the network, characterizing it as a political opponent and not a legitimate news organization.

That's fair game. No president has to appear on any particular TV show or give exclusive interviews to any particular reporter. It has always been thus. Elected officials often to try to advance their point of view by choosing what they perceive as a friendly, or merely fair, outlet. What this newspaper protested five years ago was the Ehrlich administration's decision to ban all state employees from sharing information with a Sun reporter and a columnist with whom they disagreed. As we also wrote in an editorial at the time, "Mr. Ehrlich and his staff have the right to decline to be interviewed."

Blacklisting critics by unilaterally banning state employees from speaking to them, however, strikes us as something entirely different, then and now."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bal-ed.fox28oct28,0,3960066.story

Remember, Nixon was blasted by the press for keeping an enemies list, but so far Obama has gotten off easy for treating Fox Nexs even worse than Nixon treated the press. If you disagree, please show me where Nixon did not allow certain members of the press access to Administration officials, while allowing other members of the press free access to them.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dude, I love you as I would love a wayward brother that needs a good beating, but your obsession with communisim is getting old.
You don't like communist governments ( I assume the issue you have is with the governments), fine, I am sure they couldn't care less.
Boycott all the communist products you can, but don't make them out to be the "great satan", that's the US's job ;)

[Lucas]

i dont blame him, i wouldnt go on fox either. i shake my head half the time i catch their news reportings.

[1bad65]

Dude, I love you as I would love a wayward brother that needs a good beating, but your obsession with communisim is getting old.
You don't like communist governments ( I assume the issue you have is with the governments), fine, I am sure they couldn't care less.
Boycott all the communist products you can, but don't make them out to be the "great satan", that's the US's job ;)

I understand.

Bottom line, I'm quite uneasy about our future.

We have a President who is either absolutely clueless about how an economy works, or he is a Socialist/Communist. There is no other explanation. Look at the world man. Communist China is actually fiscally moving away from Socialism/Communism and their economy is really doing well. Meanwhile we are embracing those very same policies that China now admits have failed! And it's failing here as well. But alot of people are just clueless. You've heard that old saying about insanity; The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Study history; the USSR, Eastern Europe, Cuba, North Korea, Cambodia all failed. They all tried this econmic idea, and they went bankrupt (and murdered hundreds of millions in the process). And now China is actually opening up to capitalism.Why in the world are so many Americans convinced it will work here, when it NEVER has worked anywhere else???

And it's also quite scary that a totalitarian regime owns alot of our debt...

[1bad65]

i dont blame him, i wouldnt go on fox either. i shake my head half the time i catch their news reportings.

Not going on Fox News is one thing. Banning them from Administration officials is quite another. Again, even Nixon never went this far, and he was a crook who hated the press.....

[sanjuro_ronin]

I understand.

Bottom line, I'm quite uneasy about our future.

We have a President who is either absolutely clueless about how an economy works, or he is a Socialist/Communist. There is no other explanation. Look at the world man. Communist China is actually fiscally moving away from Socialism/Communism and their economy is really doing well. Meanwhile we are embracing those very same policies that China now admits have failed! And it's failing here as well. But alot of people are just clueless. You've heard that old saying about insanity; The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Study history; the USSR, Eastern Europe, Cuba, North Korea, Cambodia all failed. They all tried this econmic idea, and they went bankrupt (and murdered hundreds of millions in the process). And now China is actually opening up to capitalism.Why in the world are so many Americans convinced it will work here, when it NEVER has worked anywhere else???

And it's also quite scary that a totalitarian regime owns alot of our debt...


I don't want to burst your bubble, but if there is one thing that the economical meltdown has taught us is that these people DO NOT know ANYTHING about the economy.
He's a freaking lawyer for pete's sake !
If the actual financial people git us in this freaking hole, you think a LAWYER can get us out ??
Dude...

[1bad65]

I don't want to burst your bubble, but if there is one thing that the economical meltdown has taught us is that these people DO NOT know ANYTHING about the economy.
He's a freaking lawyer for pete's sake !
If the actual financial people git us in this freaking hole, you think a LAWYER can get us out ??
Dude...

Well, an actor got us out of the last bad recession we had.

It's not WHO is in charge that matters, it's the POLICIES they enact.

[BoulderDawg]

By the way, does any one know when the last time the US unemployment rate hit 10%?

If was summer of 1983. That was 2 and a half years into the Reagan admin!:D

[1bad65]

And Clinton was a lawyer too. And he did alot better job than this fool is doing. Of course Clinton CUT capital gains taxes, setting off the tech sector.

I actually paid attention during the election. I listened Obama's solutions. I told everyone he would fail, and fail badly. When they asked how I knew, I simply said his solutions had been tried before, and failed EVERY TIME. I actually said Obama would be "Carter on steroids". So far, I'm spot on.

You do realize that the unemployment rate has went up over 30% in under one friggin year, right? And this guy has 3 more years to enact more of his proven failing solutions on an economy already very weakened. Oil is pushing $80/barrel, and inflation is almost certain considering we are just printing money blindly. What are the liberals gonna say if gasoline is actually higher under Obama than Bush? After all, they can't blame Obama and his oil buddies, can they? ;) At the rate we are going, the economy is soon going to be being measured with the Misery Index, something not done since....Carter! :eek:

[1bad65]

And keep in mind, the prime interest rate in the US is almost at 0. Which means you cannot lower it much. This is not good.

The Fed lowers this to encourage lending. Which enables economic growth. So we have interest rates at a very low level, yet the economy is shrinking! Since it is so low, it really can't be lowered much. So something else must be done that will encourage economic growth....

Any ideas? ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

And keep in mind, the prime interest rate in the US is almost at 0. Which means you cannot lower it much. This is not good.

The Fed lowers this to encourage lending. Which enables economic growth. So we have interest rates at a very low level, yet the economy is shrinking! Since it is so low, it really can't be lowered much. So something else must be done that will encourage economic growth....

Any ideas? ;)

Stimulate the economy where it counts:
Small Business.
Forgive the back taxes they owe that they will NEVER pay anyways and that the government has already made their money on interest.
Create incentives for them to hire and not fire.
Make it clear to people and unions that assembly line work is NOT skilled trade, as a matter of fact, any job that anyone can do with minimal training is NOT skilled trade and should NOT be paid as such, ie: be more competitive with the world, not the next state.
You want people to buy American? give them a reason to.
CUT FREAKING TAXES so people HAVE money to SPEND !!

[1bad65]

Stimulate the economy where it counts:
Small Business.
Forgive the back taxes they owe that they will NEVER pay anyways and that the government has already made their money on interest.
Create incentives for them to hire and not fire.
Make it clear to people and unions that assembly line work is NOT skilled trade, as a matter of fact, any job that anyone can do with minimal training is NOT skilled trade and should NOT be paid as such, ie: be more competitive with the world, not the next state.
You want people to buy American? give them a reason to.
CUT FREAKING TAXES so people HAVE money to SPEND !!

Excellent ideas Sanjuro. I agree 100% with you.

However, Obama is against every one of those proposed solutions. Matter of fact, get ready for tax INCREASES.

So, try again....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Excellent ideas Sanjuro. I agree 100% with you.

However, Obama is against every one of those proposed solutions. Matter of fact, get ready for tax INCREASES.

So, try again....

He's not the only one, while our federal government cut taxes ( the fedral sales tax was 7 and is now 5) the provincial one is now going to tax pretty much everything that was exempt from provincial taxes.
Yep, in their words, to stimulate the economy, things that never paid the 8% Provincial tax will now pay them as of July next year.
Biggest freaking idiots on the face of the planet.
Doing their best to kill any chances of stopping the downwards spiral.

[Drake]

For the mostpart, economics is the only part that I USED to believe in in regard to the republican party. However, in recent years, the republicans have went and lost their god **** minds, becoming borderline extremists, and give the impression of a bunch of crazed rednecks screaming outlandish accusations without bothering to even think about what they're saying. This is the current state of the party, and the future doesn't look good for them. They need another Reagan. Or two. Because their current offerings would barely pass for sudent council material.

[1bad65]

Drake, the Republicans have gotten that message now though. This last election showed that. They campaigned against bailouts, against more borrowing, and against more spending. And it was a massacre for the Democrats.

[1bad65]

By the way, does any one know when the last time the US unemployment rate hit 10%?

If was summer of 1983. That was 2 and a half years into the Reagan admin!:D

Someone told me you posted this, and it is a valid point, so I will address it.

Yes, Reagan hit a bump in 1983. However, while unemployment did go up in 1983, this happened because Reagan had to take steps to curb inflation. Inflation is like a nuclear bomb to an economy. Inflation was still high, though lower than under Carter. But it had to go lower. The best way to lower inflation is to RAISE the prime interest rate. This constricts money entering the economy. This sounds detrimental, but remember inflation is caused by too much money in an economy. So Reagan raised interest rates, which normally would not be such a huge deal. However, under Carter it had reached record levels (records still held by Carter mind you) of over 20%! Reagan initially cut interest rates and implemented tax cuts to get more money into the PRIVATE sector. This worked and unemployment actually went down and the economy was beginning to recover. But inflation was still too high. So Reagan raised interest rates. This did finally get inflation under control. However, it did take money out of the private sector, resulting in job losses in 1983. However, once inflation was under control, Reagan was again able to again lower interest rates. Since the economy had recovered, this time the cuts in interest rates did not cause huge increases in inflation, while causing the economy to again take off.

This is the main reason Obama's policies terrify me. Notice that Reagan was able to cut the prime interest rate to curb inflation. The scary part is that Obama does not have this option, as interest rates are near zero already! If inflation hits, and his policies of wildly printing money are almost guaranteed to cause this, the main weapon to fix it is not available. Remember, just this week the Communist Chinese, who own alot of our debt, told Obama they are very concerned with his economic policies. They know that if inflation hits us, we are almost powerless to stop it, and they want their money.....

[mawali]

I would imagine that those who make the claim of being more patriotic than the other is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
A patriot is one who would want to spend money in USA for Americans and their basic care than spending it on a war outside the US just to wage war and enrich political friends in that endeavour!

[BoulderDawg]

Definitions:(especially for the neo teabaggers)

Patroit: Someone who marches lockstep with your own philosophy.

Terrorist: Someone who disagrees with you.

That's pretty simple once you get down to it.

**************

Also, I just have to laugh. Isn't it just like I said it would be. If the economy did not turn around on a dime and florish then Obama would be blamed! :D Don't worry about the fact that he inherited the worse economy since the depression!

[1bad65]

Also, I just have to laugh. Isn't it just like I said it would be. If the economy did not turn around on a dime and florish then Obama would be blamed! :D Don't worry about the fact that he inherited the worse economy since the depression!

Are you STILL using the blame Bush playbook? :rolleyes:

FYI, it's not near the worst economy since the Depression. Carter's economy wins that title. Obama did not inherit double-digit inflation and over 20% prime interest rates. Reagan did inherit those from Carter, and he never whined and cried about it like Obama and the liberals are now.

So, stop making assertions without facts.

[1bad65]

Face it, it's Obama's economy now.

He got HIS stimulus plan passed on HIS timetible. And he promised us unemployment would not break 8%. FAIL.

[BoulderDawg]

Face it, it's Obama's economy now.

He got HIS stimulus plan passed on HIS timetible. And he promised us unemployment would not break 8%. FAIL.

Sorry but serious debate with you!:D Not gonna happen. Why don't you post a little more about how I support Ward Churchill and that no one should listen to me because of it.

[1bad65]

Sorry but serious debate with you!:D Not gonna happen. Why don't you post a little more about how I support Ward Churchill and that no one should listen to me because of it.

Because you know I have facts on my side and you do not.

I do have one question for you though: At what point does the economy become Obama's economy?

[1bad65]

As to your poseur buddy, that's yet ANOTHER time I had facts on my side and you did not. :D See, history does indeed repeat itself!

[BoulderDawg]

As to your poseur buddy, that's yet ANOTHER time I had facts on my side and you did not. :D See, history does indeed repeat itself!


There you go! That's what I expect! :eek::eek::D:D

[1bad65]

Look, YOU brought that subject up. Not me.

Face it, you know you don't have facts on your side, so you're grasping for excuses to not debate rationally. Everyone can see that.

Oh yeah, you still haven't answered my question. When does the economy become Obama's economy?

[BoulderDawg]

Look, YOU brought that subject up. Not me.

Face it, you know you don't have facts on your side, so you're grasping for excuses to not debate rationally. Everyone can see that.

Oh yeah, you still haven't answered my question. When does the economy become Obama's economy?


Yep! That's it! I just don't have the facts on my side!:D

[1bad65]

Yep! That's it! I just don't have the facts on my side!:D

Care to answer that question?

We all can see you won't answer it because you see his policies are failing and you want to be able to use the 'Blame Bush' card for the next 3 years. :rolleyes:

[18elders]

after 8 years of Bush's crap you expect the economy to turn around overnight?
Dump oil into a lake everyday for 8 years and see how long it will take to clean it up and restore the eco system? It isn't going to happen very quickly.

Bush went into office with a surplus, he took us into a war we shouldn't have gone into and he spent billions on it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/themes/socialized.html

Reinhardt: Basically these are social insurance systems, and this is ... what some politicians cannot get through their heads. They talk about socialized medicine as if, of course, it were something evil. But what these systems are, they use socialized insurance -- in other words, to socialize the financial risk of getting sick -- but the delivery system is private, often a for-profit mix.

]If you want to look at a purely socialized health care, you would have to go to the United States, where we have it. In particular, that's the system we reserve for our veterans. So if I hear politicians run down socialized medicine -- and I have done that before the Congress -- I say: ... Do you hate your veterans? Why do you reserve purely socialized medicine -- there's only the U.S. and Cuba that have that -- for the veterans?[/COLOR] ... So getting the terms right would be very, very helpful in our national conversation on health reform. ...

[1bad65]

after 8 years of Bush's crap you expect the economy to turn around overnight?
Dump oil into a lake everyday for 8 years and see how long it will take to clean it up and restore the eco system? It isn't going to happen very quickly.

No, I do not expect it to turn around overnight. That's why I posed the simple question to BD.

I know it takes time, but the problem is not that is not fixed yet, it's that it's getting worse. And just about every economic indicator is headed in the wrong direction! Unemployment is up, construction and factory jobs are down, interest rates cannot go much lower (think of that as having your foot to the floor, yet the car is not moving forward), housing starts are down, retail sales are down, the deficit is at record levels, and on and on. Can you point to a few economic indicators that would show the economy is moving the right direction?


Bush went into office with a surplus, he took us into a war we shouldn't have gone into and he spent billions on it.

Yeah, we should have just ignored 9/11. :rolleyes:

But the fact remains, Obama is spending roughly the same amount of money on the war, and he can leave or ratchet it down at any point. He is the C-in-C ya know. So, try again on that 'Blame Bush' tactic...


Reinhardt: Basically these are social insurance systems, and this is ... what some politicians cannot get through their heads. They talk about socialized medicine as if, of course, it were something evil. But what these systems are, they use socialized insurance -- in other words, to socialize the financial risk of getting sick -- but the delivery system is private, often a for-profit mix.

]If you want to look at a purely socialized health care, you would have to go to the United States, where we have it. In particular, that's the system we reserve for our veterans. So if I hear politicians run down socialized medicine -- and I have done that before the Congress -- I say: ... Do you hate your veterans? Why do you reserve purely socialized medicine -- there's only the U.S. and Cuba that have that -- for the veterans?[/COLOR] ... So getting the terms right would be very, very helpful in our national conversation on health reform. ...

That guy is a buffoon. Getting use of the VA is something that you EARN by signing up to serve your country. You can opt out of it if you so choose. My father is entitled to VA care (he earned a Purple Heart). While he does use it in relation to the wounds he received, he uses his PRIVATE plan most of the time for everything else. And thats his choice. Under this socialized medicine plan Obama wants, there will be NO CHOICE. You either enroll in a government approved plan, or you can be put in prison!!! I thought liberals were pro-choice??? Oh yeah, they are only pro-choice when it comes to sucking an unborn child out of the womb. My bad.

Hey, maybe you can answer the question BD is ducking.....;)

[1bad65]

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the VA blasted the last few years for the sub-par care that our Gulf War veterans are receiving? Something about 'Gulf War Syndrome' not being recognized by them, so they just refuse to treat vets with those symptoms.

Yup, sounds like a great model to base the entire country's healthcare plan on. :eek:

[18elders]

Ignore 911?
We new about it, the Filipino government gave our government info about the attacks.

http://www.mediastudy.com/articles/av6-13-02.html

And then why did Bush allow Bin Laden's family to leave the USA after the attack??

“Even though American airspace had been shut down," Sky News reported, "the Bush administration allowed a jet to fly around the US picking up family members from 10 cities, including Los Angeles, Washington DC, Boston and Houston.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15186



Your question on when the economy becomes Oboma's?

We will feel the effects of the Bush administration for a looooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggg time.

It is not a switch you turn off.

[1bad65]

Your question on when the economy becomes Oboma's?

We will feel the effects of the Bush administration for a looooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggg time.

It is not a switch you turn off.

No really, we need something from you 'Blame Bush' parrots.

I notice you completely avoided my observations of how almost every economic indicator is headed in the wrong direction....

[1bad65]

...it appears Saturday Night Live is taking Obama to task and not just blaming Bush anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN-ui28SlHU

[1bad65]

We will feel the effects of the Bush administration for a looooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggg time.

Ok, let's try it another way.

How have Bush's policies caused the mess we are in? And be specific. ;) Remember, just repeating talking points is not specific.

[BoulderDawg]

...it appears Saturday Night Live is taking Obama to task and not just blaming Bush anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN-ui28SlHU

Sorry, but unlike the Neo Teabaggers, liberals are able to separate parody and entertainment from actual serious discussion and policy making.

We laugh and enjoy shows such as SNL, Daily, Olbermann and others. We don't consider the people on these shows as our next candidate simply because they are on TV.

[1bad65]

We laugh and enjoy shows such as SNL, Daily, Olbermann and others. We don't consider the people on these shows as our next candidate simply because they are on TV.

So says the guy who supported Al Franken.

[18elders]

blame Bush parrots?
More like you are a blame Obama parrot.


Economic pointer in wrong direction?
Still feeling the effects of the previous administration and we will for a while.

You actually think it can be fixed so easily?

Funny how you say we dodge your questions yet you cannot answer mine?

Explain to me why the Bin Laden family was flown out of the USA courtesy of the Bush administration and paid for by the American tax payer?????????

[1bad65]

blame Bush parrots?
More like you are a blame Obama parrot.

Economic pointer in wrong direction?
Still feeling the effects of the previous administration and we will for a while.

You actually think it can be fixed so easily?

Funny how you say we dodge your questions yet you cannot answer mine?

Explain to me why the Bin Laden family was flown out of the USA courtesy of the Bush administration and paid for by the American tax payer?????????

Well, this is not a 9/11 thread. That's why I didn't answer that. But I'll look into that and comment on it when I have the facts.

AGAIN, I never expected Obama to fix it already. But almost every economic indicator is worse than it was 9 months ago! Reagan had inflation, interest rates, and GDP all moving in the right direction well before his first 9 months after the Carter Recession.

And yes, it can be fixed easily. Just cut taxes on ALL income levels. It will infuse more capital into the private sector. That's been proven to work EVERY TIME it's tried.

[1bad65]

Please explain how Bush's policies led to the mess we are in.

If you are gonna blame him, at least explain your stance. I've repeatedly stated why I feel Obama's policies will fail, so now you need to explain your position. Is that too much to ask?

[BoulderDawg]

And yes, it can be fixed easily. Just cut taxes on ALL income levels. It will infuse more capital into the private sector. That's been proven to work EVERY TIME it's tried.

Yeah Bud! That really worked for Bush!:D:D:D

[1bad65]

“Even though American airspace had been shut down," Sky News reported, "the Bush administration allowed a jet to fly around the US picking up family members from 10 cities, including Los Angeles, Washington DC, Boston and Houston.”

Explain to me why the Bin Laden family was flown out of the USA courtesy of the Bush administration and paid for by the American tax payer?????????

Well, first off, your facts are wrong.

None of the flights, domestic or international, took place before the reopening of national airspace on the morning of Sept. 13 and the 9/11 Commission found "no evidence of a political intervention". http://911.gnu-designs.com/Chapter_10.html

The 9/11 Commission found that the "FBI conducted a satisfactory screening of Saudi nationals who left the United States on charter flights. The Saudi government was advised of and agreed to the FBI's requirements that passengers be identified and checked against various databases before the flights departed. The Federal Aviation Administration representative working in the FBI operations center made sure that the FBI was aware of the flights of Saudi nationals and was able to screen the passengers before they were allowed to depart." http://911.gnu-designs.com/Chapter_10.html

And nowhere does it say the tax payers paid for the flights either. FYI, Michael Moore movies are not generally a good thing to use to garner facts from.

Now it's your turn to answer my questions! ;)

[BoulderDawg]

So says the guy who supported Al Franken.

You mean the guy who left SNL over 14 years ago?:D

[1bad65]

Yeah Bud! That really worked for Bush!:D:D:D

So show me how his tax cuts caused the mess.

I'm not denying he cut taxes (although imo it was not a big enough tax cut), I just want you liberals to provide a cause-effect in relation to those tax cuts and the recession.

[1bad65]

You mean the guy who left SNL over 14 years ago?:D

You've proven that you talk out of both sides of your mouth on that topic.

Want to continue to embarrass yourself? I can dig up more Al Franken quotes of yours.... :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Please explain how Bush's policies led to the mess we are in.


So show me how his tax cuts caused the mess.

And suddenly the blame Bush crowd is quiet again....

[18elders]

Sorry Bud, didn't get my facts from Moore.
It is a documented fact.

Did you get yours from the Bush administrations report???

[1bad65]

Sorry Bud, didn't get my facts from Moore.
It is a documented fact.

Did you get yours from the Bush administrations report???

Dude, I used the 9/11 Commission's report!

If you can't accept that, it's a waste of time to try and debate with you.

[1bad65]

Look, I admit I'm a Libertarian. But come on, facts are facts.

You said that members of the Bin Laden family flew out while US airspace was shut down. This was shown to be incorrect. Like it or not, your source did not have their facts straight.

If you can't accept you might actually be wrong on some things, you're as close minded as liberals say conservatives are!

[Drake]

You can no more blame Bush for the economic crisis any more than you can credit Obama for it's eventual recovery. This is part of our economic system, and for some reason, every time the market plummets, we act like this isn't a perfectly natural cycle of a free market.

[1bad65]

You can no more blame Bush for the economic crisis any more than you can credit Obama for it's eventual recovery. This is part of our economic system, and for some reason, every time the market plummets, we act like this isn't a perfectly natural cycle of a free market.

What the US economy does is not a perfectly natural cycle. The reason is that we do not have a laissez-faire capitalist system. If we did, you would be correct. But Government policy does impact our economy. It is how Gov't impacts it and to what extent that will forever be debated.

[18elders]

Permission to fly

Federal authorities gave permission for the plane to fly.

Tom Kinton, director of aviation at Boston's Logan airport, said: "We were in the midst of the worst terrorist act in history and here we were seeing an evacuation of the bin Ladens! ... I wanted to go the highest levels in Washington."

Mr Clarke, who headed the Counter-terrorism Security Group of the National Security Council, said he did not recall who requested approval for the flights, but believes it was either the FBI or the State Department.

Special Agent John Iannarelli, the FBI's spokesman on counter-terrorism activities, said: "I can say unequivocally that the FBI had no role in facilitating these flights one way or another."

[BoulderDawg]

Permission to fly

Federal authorities gave permission for the plane to fly.

Tom Kinton, director of aviation at Boston's Logan airport, said: "We were in the midst of the worst terrorist act in history and here we were seeing an evacuation of the bin Ladens! ... I wanted to go the highest levels in Washington."

Mr Clarke, who headed the Counter-terrorism Security Group of the National Security Council, said he did not recall who requested approval for the flights, but believes it was either the FBI or the State Department.

Special Agent John Iannarelli, the FBI's spokesman on counter-terrorism activities, said: "I can say unequivocally that the FBI had no role in facilitating these flights one way or another."

Well......What does it matter now anyway? I'm more concerned with this notion that the US is going to send 40K troops to Afghanistan. Sounds to me like Obama down on his knees puckering up to kiss some Neo ass.

[1bad65]

Permission to fly

Federal authorities gave permission for the plane to fly.

I'm not denying this!

You initially said this:
“Even though American airspace had been shut down," Sky News reported, "the Bush administration allowed a jet to fly around the US picking up family members from 10 cities, including Los Angeles, Washington DC, Boston and Houston.”

I pointed out the plane did not fly while US airspace was shut down. I was correct, and I used the 9/11 Commission's report to back my assertions up.

Get it now?

[1bad65]

18elders,

I'm still waiting for you to explain how Bush's economic policies caused this recession......

[1bad65]

Well......What does it matter now anyway? I'm more concerned with this notion that the US is going to send 40K troops to Afghanistan. Sounds to me like Obama down on his knees puckering up to kiss some Neo ass.

Look like he broke yet another campaign promise. So much for 'Change'. ;)

[BoulderDawg]

Look like he broke yet another campaign promise. So much for 'Change'. ;)

Even though he's much too conservative for me, Obama is still head and shoulder above anyone the GOP would have in the WH. Especially these days when the party has really swing off the table to the neo right.

[1bad65]

Even though he's much too conservative for me, Obama is still head and shoulder above anyone the GOP would have in the WH. Especially these days when the party has really swing off the table to the neo right.

I think Karl Marx would be much too conservative for you.

[18elders]

you can stick to your source, i will stick to my personal sources that work for the government.

[1bad65]

you can stick to your source, i will stick to my personal sources that work for the government.

You idiot, my source is the Congressional 9/11 Commission.


http://www.mediastudy.com/articles/av6-13-02.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15186

Which branch of the Government does mediastudy.com and globalresearch.ca fall under?

[1bad65]

you can stick to your source, i will stick to my personal sources that work for the government.

And you expect to be taken seriously now? :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

Maybe your "personal sources" can help you answer my question. :D

Please explain how Bush's economic policies caused this recession...

[BoulderDawg]

You idiot, my source is the Congressional 9/11 Commission.

18elder, don't even mess with this guy.

Notice how when he starts to lose an argument the name calling begins. He's taking those clues from people such as Anne Coulter and Limby.

What's even funnier is that he wants to be taken seriously!:D I don't know about you but anyone that starts out with "You Idiot" is NOT taken seriously. In fact their comments are dismissed.

In fact this is a guy doesn't want to discuss any issue. For example when I try to discuss an issue (any issue, it doesn't matter) Bad attacks me by bring up Ward Churchill.

Nope! The best thing to do is just leave him in his own neo teabag world!:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Maybe your "personal sources" can help you answer my question. :D

Please explain how Bush's economic policies caused this recession...

They didn't stop it or slow it down, that's for sure.

Too many to blame for this mess, can't put it on one person.

[1bad65]

18elder, don't even mess with this guy.

Notice how when he starts to lose an argument the name calling begins. He's taking those clues from people such as Anne Coulter and Limby.

What's even funnier is that he wants to be taken seriously!:D I don't know about you but anyone that starts out with "You Idiot" is NOT taken seriously. In fact their comments are dismissed.

In fact this is a guy doesn't want to discuss any issue. For example when I try to discuss an issue (any issue, it doesn't matter) Bad attacks me by bring up Ward Churchill.

Nope! The best thing to do is just leave him in his own neo teabag world!:D

Now come on, you were doing better again.

YOU brought the fake Indian into this discussion, not me. Anyone who can read the thread can see that, you included.

And yes, I called him an idiot. Here I'm using the Congressional 9/11 Commission's report as a source and yet his argument is 'Your sources don't count. I know people in the Government'. Get real. Everyone can see he is ducking questions and refusing to even accept my sources even when they are the US Congress!

And you really should pipe down about name calling. You've launched personal attacks REPEATEDLY on the Palin family, McCain for his military service, the Bush family, and Rush Limbaugh for his weight. Either stop name-calling yourself, or live with it when others do it. You can't have it both ways.

[1bad65]

Too many to blame for this mess, can't put it on one person.

I agree.

However, I'm just asking those who put all the blame on Bush to explain how his policies caused the mess. It speaks volumes that they cant answer it.

[18elders]

not ducking your question bud,
just pressed for time to put everything up here.
Unfortunately i can't give you my sources for obvious reasons.

Just because your using the Congressional 911 source you believe everything??

We didn't torture anyone either, just gave them a little bath.

No problem calling me names, it doesn't bother me, sorry I ****ed you off that much.

we won't change each others mind so don't worry about it, have a good
Thanksgiving.

Here's some reading for you, it may put you in a better mood.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34145680/ns/business-real_estate
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34145701/ns/business-stocks_and_economy

[BoulderDawg]

And you really should pipe down about name calling. You've launched personal attacks REPEATEDLY on the Palin family, McCain for his military service, the Bush family, and Rush Limbaugh for his weight. Either stop name-calling yourself, or live with it when others do it. You can't have it both ways.

All those people you mentioned are public figures and do not visit this board....at least I don't think they do. However your insults are hurled directly at the person you are trying to have a "serious" debate with. There is a difference.

Even the numberous insults that you have directed at my friend Ward. I've let all that go because I know Churchill is a public figure.

A word on Limby: Last time I saw the Mofo, weight wise he was looking good. Of course that probably means he's taken a truckload of pills to maintain that. And don't worry he's weak willed so I'm sure he'll pack it back on soon enough. No, what I think is funny is that here's a gazillionaire who doesn't seem to be to please his woman!:D That is if he even has a woman anymore!

[1bad65]

not ducking your question bud,
just pressed for time to put everything up here.

Well, you have made several posts in the meantime. I just want you to answer it. Fiscal policy is the topic, thus I'd like for you to explain how Bush's fiscal policies caused the mess if you are going to blame him for causing the mess.



Unfortunately i can't give you my sources for obvious reasons.

Just because your using the Congressional 911 source you believe everything??

Again, you used two websites as a source. I discredited them with the mine. Now your sources are suddenly Top Secret. :rolleyes:

[1bad65]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34145680/ns/business-real_estate

You are correct. Home sales are up. This is good. Can you explain how Obama's policies caused this to happen?

And if you cannot, I will. :D

[KC Elbows]

Anyone who can read the thread can see that...

I'd like to speak out for those of us whose ability to read has been destroyed by this thread.:D

[18elders]

i gave you some info to read, they are not my personal sources.
I live in Tampa, FL , you can figure it out on your own since you're so brilliant.

[Drake]

i gave you some info to read, they are not my personal sources.
I live in Tampa, FL , you can figure it out on your own since you're so brilliant.

Oh god, not the "I have friends in CENTCOM" story...

[18elders]

sorry bud, wrong answer.

[Drake]

sorry bud, wrong answer.

Yes, I'm sure you have awesome super secret sources. Because OPSEC is for wimps and commies, right?

[David Jamieson]

I'd like to speak out for those of us whose ability to read has been destroyed by this thread.:D

Hear hear.

darn gop shills anyway!

[18elders]

i respect the privacy of the individual and his wishes.

According to your bio you are in the military so i respect what you do for our country and will not get into anything else with you and your comments.

[Drake]

i respect the privacy of the individual and his wishes.

According to your bio you are in the military so i respect what you do for our country and will not get into anything else with you and your comments.

My point is, I'm not just in the military. I am an intelligence officer who also happens to be the security manager, OPSEC officer, and antiterrorism officer. While I highly doubt anyone with a clearance will disclose anything to someone that would compromise their clearance, their unit, and national security, if someone IS telling you something they shouldn't, then he/she will likely end up in jail for a very long time.

This isn't a shot at you, but rather, the whole "I have a friend on the INSIDE" thing that seems so prevalent. If someone IS disclosing classified information to you, you are in a very serious predicament, and despite any reassurances, it will end badly.

[BoulderDawg]

God, here we go again. No one here really gives an S about your "Secrets".

Knowing the screwed up system of the military why does it not surprise me that you are an "Intelligence Officer". :D

Also, the "Go to jail for a long time" sounds like a threat to me.

However, you're right on one thing. Most people who get involved in the military find out that things "end badly".

[Drake]

Days like today I'm sure glad BD is on ignore. I'm sure he's professing his in-depth knowledge of military affairs.

[dimethylsea]

. Because OPSEC is for wimps and commies, right?

Drake,

I'm sorry to hear you are an officer. That's just horrible. How did you get conned into that? Needed the health coverage or the school money?



cheers
Brian

[Drake]

Drake,

I'm sorry to hear you are an officer. That's just horrible. How did you get conned into that? Needed the health coverage or the school money?



cheers
Brian

I love the job. I am worth about $100k + in the private sector with my education and experience. Some have accused me of being insane. :D

[dimethylsea]

I love the job. I am worth about $100k + in the private sector with my education and experience. Some have accused me of being insane. :D

Insane is not the word I would use. I'm sorry to hear they got their hooks in ya bro.

I understand there are some valid reasons for some folks staying in the military. I knew one guy (an GM2, gunners mate) who told me very frankly he wasn't smart enough to get any civvie job he wanted to work with a decent retirement. I knew another guy who stayed in because while he was healthy he had a wife with health issues and he wanted to make sure she was taken care of. I also knew a guy who was a career officer because it was simply the "family business" and he could get away with almost anything and not be written out of the will so long as he didn't have a police record and stayed in uniform and retired.

I loathe the military, and generally I loathe the lifer mentality. This is why I stay out of service towns.. because I have this bad habit of spitting on E-5s and above when I see them in uniform :D.

[Drake]

Shouldn't spit on troops. They wouldn't do the same to you, would they? It's a free country, and you are certainly welcome to your opinions, but spitting is a bit of an overreaction. Just turn the other cheek or whatever, and live your life peacefully.

[dimethylsea]

Shouldn't spit on troops. They wouldn't do the same to you, would they? It's a free country, and you are certainly welcome to your opinions, but spitting is a bit of an overreaction. Just turn the other cheek or whatever, and live your life peacefully.


Oh I know it's an over-reaction. That's why I avoid the temptation of service towns. But it's extremely tempting.. because it's a good way to get them to swing.. and that's when they get shown what happens what "Not In My Name" can really mean.

The E-4 and below could just have been trying to better themselves or get some school money (I did the same thing). But it's a pretty good bet that a senior non-com or an officer has done some horrible things (usually to the junior enlisted) and since they are part of the military-industrial complex in a willful long term sort of way.. well there is no moral or ethical problem with goading them into initiating force and then replying with a more capable version of the same.

After all.. it's not like kicking a Quaker's ass right? Anyone who chooses to wear the uniform for more than a single hitch is part of the problem, and if they escape an encounter with a member of the American public with their life and limbs intact.. then I'd say they are more fortunate than they deserve. If a lifer can avoid losing their temper and attacking while being publicly humiliated, castigated and taunted.. then they may have undergone an experience that will demonstrate very clearly that they are NOT the heroes they like to think they are.

It is typical for militarist types to strive to marginalize or radicalize those who do not support their unfettered access to the government coffers and the moral/ethical high ground. Acts of civil outrage and disdain for career military folks is an excellent step towards evicting pro-military thinking and feeling from the general category of "OK/normal".

Think of it as political correctness with some serious teeth.

[18elders]

Liked your bagua clips on your website.
I did a little training in Ma pai bagua (Ma Weiqi) lineage.
My wife's friends father is a Bagua Master in Ma Pai Bagua.
He is awesome but unfortunately he is in China so i don't get to see him much but i did enjoy training with him.

[dimethylsea]

18Elders,

Check your PMs bro.

Now excuse me.. I'm playing liberal hippy peacenik to Drake's spitshined squared away Hero :D.

[Drake]

Oh I know it's an over-reaction. That's why I avoid the temptation of service towns. But it's extremely tempting.. because it's a good way to get them to swing.. and that's when they get shown what happens what "Not In My Name" can really mean.

The E-4 and below could just have been trying to better themselves or get some school money (I did the same thing). But it's a pretty good bet that a senior non-com or an officer has done some horrible things (usually to the junior enlisted) and since they are part of the military-industrial complex in a willful long term sort of way.. well there is no moral or ethical problem with goading them into initiating force and then replying with a more capable version of the same.

After all.. it's not like kicking a Quaker's ass right? Anyone who chooses to wear the uniform for more than a single hitch is part of the problem, and if they escape an encounter with a member of the American public with their life and limbs intact.. then I'd say they are more fortunate than they deserve. If a lifer can avoid losing their temper and attacking while being publicly humiliated, castigated and taunted.. then they may have undergone an experience that will demonstrate very clearly that they are NOT the heroes they like to think they are.

It is typical for militarist types to strive to marginalize or radicalize those who do not support their unfettered access to the government coffers and the moral/ethical high ground. Acts of civil outrage and disdain for career military folks is an excellent step towards evicting pro-military thinking and feeling from the general category of "OK/normal".

Think of it as political correctness with some serious teeth.



Actually, many folks can make E-6 within a single enlistment, and we're losing junior officers at a very fast rate (Many of them have between a 3-5 year commitment). So, you shouldn't assume that someone with stripes and a rocker is a lifer.

Troop abuse is now illegal, and I think it was three NCOs that were reduced to E-1, given a bad conduct discharge, and kicked out for doing what was considered commonplace in the 70's and 80's.

Again, you have your right to believe what you want, but I do think you misunderstand the armed forces. Trying to justify spitting on soldiers isn't valid, unless, of course, they provoke you first. However, like I said before, your information seems terribly outdated. Soldiers don't serve Blackwater and they don't serve the industry. If they did, we wouldn't be pulling out of Iraq en masse right now. In fact, I predict the whole contracting cash cow to dry up very soon.No more $200k trips to Iraq to embarass soldiers and make their lives even more difficult.

[uki]

the most asinine thing about the entire military apparatus is the fact that a civilian thru deciet or elections(or both), can become the commander in chief... it makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever, to hand the reins of the military to some neck tie-wearing, corporate minded and political buisness man - then again, i can't see any country having a military minded tyrant as a leader either...

[1bad65]

Wow, it takes alot of balls to spit on someone.

10:1 says you dont actually have video proof of you doing this though....

[1bad65]

Yeah Drake, you are correct. BD is going off again, and that 18elders guy can't disclose his sources. :rolleyes:

18Elders also cannot point out how Bush's policies caused this recession, but that's not stopping him from parrotting 'Its Bush's fault' over and over and over. Most liberals are that way. They can repeat talking points, but when you ask them for specifics, they clam up.

[Drake]

the most asinine thing about the entire military apparatus is the fact that a civilian thru deciet or elections(or both), can become the commander in chief... it makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever, to hand the reins of the military to some neck tie-wearing, corporate minded and political buisness man - then again, i can't see any country having a military minded tyrant as a leader either...

It was designed that way intentionally. Keeps the military in check by ensuring the very top of the chain of command is a civilian. It balances wonderfully, actually. I do believe this was mentioned during the formation of our nation why we chose this option.

[dimethylsea]

Wow, it takes alot of balls to spit on someone.

10:1 says you dont actually have video proof of you doing this though....

It doesn't take much balls at all actually. All it takes is spotting some senior chief in khakis walking down the street and it's remarkably easy.

Ever since I got out of the I.R.R. it just get's easier and easier. I suspect you have no idea what the above statements mean.

"10:1 says you don't have video".. I'm trying to imagine someone doing this... Nope. Can't do it.

[dimethylsea]

the most asinine thing about the entire military apparatus is the fact that a civilian thru deciet or elections(or both), can become the commander in chief... it makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever, to hand the reins of the military to some neck tie-wearing, corporate minded and political buisness man - then again, i can't see any country having a military minded tyrant as a leader either...

It's not that its a wonderful idea.. it's that the one thing you can count on a general to do is be a general.

Rule by military junta is a Very Bad Thing.

It's worth noting however that this whole idea of having a massive peacetime military is something that developed POST-WW2.

One can argue that it is necessary due to world events (I do not think this obviously) but every honest student of US history will grant that the Founding Fathers did not intend for there to be massive standing professional military forces absent a Declaration of War. That's what the militias (both the organized militia - i.e. the Guard, and the "unorganized militia".. that is every person who can hold a gun and shoot straight) was for... peacetime defense.

[18elders]

I can point it out, i told you before we will not change each others minds so why waste my time explaining it to a closed minded person?

Funny how you blame Obama's policies for not having a booming economy by now but no blame on the previous administration for getting us here?

Would you like an "I love Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity" T-shirt for Christmas?

[1bad65]

It was designed that way intentionally. Keeps the military in check by ensuring the very top of the chain of command is a civilian. It balances wonderfully, actually. I do believe this was mentioned during the formation of our nation why we chose this option.

This is 100% true.

[1bad65]

I can point it out, i told you before we will not change each others minds so why waste my time explaining it to a closed minded person?

Funny how you blame Obama's policies for not having a booming economy by now but no blame on the previous administration for getting us here?

Would you like an "I love Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity" T-shirt for Christmas?

Quit copping out.

I'm not closed minded at all. NO ONE can deny the economy is in horrible shape now. No even me. And I freely admit it started going south during the end of Bush's second term. I just want you to explain how Bush's policies caused it.

If you truly feel I'm this close minded guy not worthy of debate, why did you blame Bush in the first place? ;)

Oh, for the SECOND time I'll post this. I've never said I expected Obama to have it fixed by now. However, almost every economic indicator is headed in the wrong direction, and unemployment is over 30% higher since he took office. It's getting WORSE. If it was getting better I would be on here admitting I was wrong. So, who is the close minded one here?

[1bad65]

You also pointed out home sales were up and and I agreed with you! :eek:

However, I asked for you to explian to us how Obama's policies caused this and you have not....

[18elders]

black friday sales up too

[1bad65]

black friday sales up too

In some places, and down in others.

Now, can you please try and answer the two questions posed to you.

[BoulderDawg]

Interesting story about those four cops getting blown away in Seattle. Apparently the guy who is accused of doing it was in prison at one time and had his sentence communted by arch conservative Mike Huckabee.:D

Not a peep out of the Limbaughs, Coulters or Becks! Had it been a middle of the road democrat I just can't imagine the hell that bunch would be raising.

You can't blame Huckabee though. Every so often something think this will happen. If everyone we put in prison served all of their time we would have to triple the number of prisons.

The first thing that crossed my mind was dirty cops. This was not the first "Hit" on a cop in Seattle recently.

Anyway, I'm surprised the neo teabaggers aren't sceaming "terrorist"!:p

[18elders]

Now if he was in communist china, this would have never happened

[1bad65]

Interesting story about those four cops getting blown away in Seattle.

The first thing that crossed my mind was dirty cops. This was not the first "Hit" on a cop in Seattle recently.

Do you ever take your tinfoil hat off?

[1bad65]

Interesting story about those four cops getting blown away in Seattle. Apparently the guy who is accused of doing it was in prison at one time and had his sentence communted by arch conservative Mike Huckabee.:D

Not a peep out of the Limbaughs, ...

Are you listening to Rush today? Or just talking out your ass again?

His show still has two hours to go btw.

[1bad65]

Not a peep out of the Limbaughs, Coulters or Becks!

FoxNews currently has it as their top story. Here is the story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577845,00.html

[BoulderDawg]

So then......Let's hear the neo teabagger solution to this problem!:D

[1bad65]

So then......Let's hear the neo teabagger solution to this problem!:D

You do the crime, you do the time.

Huckabee should have left it alone. IMO, about the only time a politician needs to get involved in the legal process is pardoning an innocent person who got convicted.

[BoulderDawg]

You do the crime, you do the time.

Huckabee should have left it alone. IMO, about the only time a politician needs to get involved in the legal process is pardoning an innocent person who got convicted.

So, where are you going to get the money to build at least three times as many prisons as we have now. Even under the current system the prisons are brusting at the seems.

Obviously, from what I've read, this guy was mentally distrubed but no one seemed the least bit interested in lifting a finger to help.

Also, I hope the gun nuts are happy! Apparently this guy didn't have no problem in finding a gun.......that is if he even did it. The first reports I read were of some thin scruffy black guy. This gentleman is clean cut and heavy set.

[mawali]

Interesting story about those four cops getting blown away in Seattle. Apparently the guy who is accused of doing it was in prison at one time and had his sentence communted by arch conservative Mike Huckabee.:D

Not a peep out of the Limbaughs, Coulters or Becks! Had it been a middle of the road democrat I just can't imagine the hell that bunch would be raising.

You can't blame Huckabee though. Every so often something think this will happen. If everyone we put in prison served all of their time we would have to triple the number of prisons.

The first thing that crossed my mind was dirty cops. This was not the first "Hit" on a cop in Seattle recently.

Anyway, I'm surprised the neo teabaggers aren't sceaming "terrorist"!:p

Huckabee had the audacity of hope within himself to 'pardon' the fellow and hoped he would follow the straight and narrow but that is what hope is about!

I wish FOX would do their duty and present the facts relating to this important story like:
What state was the fellow from? and elaborate on the downfall of the system that led to the 4 brave police officers being assassinated! That 's not right!

[1bad65]

So, where are you going to get the money to build at least three times as many prisons as we have now. Even under the current system the prisons are brusting at the seems.

Obviously, from what I've read, this guy was mentally distrubed but no one seemed the least bit interested in lifting a finger to help.

We can borrow the money from China. That seems to be the President's answer to everything.

Obviously Mike Huckabee tried to help the guy, but it sure blew up in his face, didn't it? Maybe the concept of not doing the crime if you can't do the time has something to it. ;)

And why must you bring race into yet another discussion?

[1bad65]

I wish FOX would do their duty and present the facts relating to this important story like:
What state was the fellow from? and elaborate on the downfall of the system that led to the 4 brave police officers being assassinated! That 's not right!

I wish liberals would RTFA and comprehend it before bashing FoxNews.

"His criminal history includes at least five felony convictions in Arkansas and at least eight felony charges in Washington, according to The Seattle Times. He had a lengthy prison sentence commuted in 2000 by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who cited Clemmons' youth."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577845,00.html

What part of that paragraph did you miss? Oh yeah, the whole thing! :rolleyes:

[Xiao3 Meng4]

http://www.youtube.com/user/TEDtalksDirector#p/u/3/fiK5-oAaeUs

[BoulderDawg]

Well it looks as if they hunted the guy down and executed him. I hope everyone is happy now.

[Syn7]

http://www.youtube.com/user/TEDtalksDirector#p/u/3/fiK5-oAaeUs

gotta love TEDtalks...