Mace vs. Hard Whip

[SanHeChuan]

Where can I find a Chinese mace (http://kungfu.chinaa2z.com/kungfu/html/Chinese%20Weapons/2009/20090105/20090105160139116543/20090105165621672109.html)or 锏 : jiǎn


The mace (Chinese: 锏; pinyin: jiǎn) is one of eighteen arms of Chinese Wushu, belonging to short weapons. It turned up between the Jin Dynasty and Tang Dynasty. It is made of copper or iron with a general length about 4 Chi (a unit of length, 1 Chi =1/3 meter) plus the handle. It is similar to the hard whip in shape. Double mace is usually used. Since it is quite heavy, only men with extraordinary strength may use it proficiently and freely.There are various kinds of mace, including bamboo-like mace which is non-blade and has a node every six to seven Cun (a unit of length, 1 Cun = 1/3 decimeter), square-edged mace that is fully flat and straight from the handle to the end, concave mace with square sections and internal recessing, and flat-edged mace with cylindrical handle and six-edge body, etc.The techniques for playing the mace include striking, *****ing, pointing, hacking, parrying, blocking, blowing, sweeping, thrusting, covering, rolling, pressing and so on.

http://img.chinaa2z.com/uploadpic/kungfu/Chinese%20Weapons/2009/20090105/20090105160139116543/1231144265.jpg
http://img.chinaa2z.com/uploadpic/kungfu/Chinese%20Weapons/2009/20090105/20090105160139116543/1231144328.jpg
http://img.chinaa2z.com/uploadpic/kungfu/Chinese%20Weapons/2009/20090105/20090105160139116543/1231144486.jpg
http://img.chinaa2z.com/uploadpic/kungfu/Chinese%20Weapons/2009/20090105/20090105160139116543/1231144536.jpg

As opposed to the iron whip which can be found at our sponsors.

Hard Whip (Bian) (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-77.html)



The whip (Chinese: 鞭; pinyin: biān) is one of the eighteen arms of Chinese Wushu. It appeared very early, and became quite popular in the Spring and Autumn Period and the Warring States Period. There are soft whip and hard whip. Chinese whip mainly refers to hard whip without blade, which belongs to short weapons relative to soft whip with long sections and soft body. It is mainly made of steel, iron or copper, famous for its weight. Generally, the whip is used singly, or used together with other weapons (usually refer to long ones); there is also such usage as one whip in one hand. Only men with greater strength can have a masterly command of the whip.

http://img.chinaa2z.com/uploadpic/kungfu/Chinese%20Weapons/2009/20090105/20090105142438883214/1231137066.jpg
http://img.chinaa2z.com/uploadpic/kungfu/Chinese%20Weapons/2009/20090105/20090105142438883214/1231136981.jpg


What I've found so far

Hard Whip (http://www.wle.com/products/W604-C.html)
Single Hard Club (http://www.wle.com/products/WS106-C.html)
Chinese Sword Breaker (http://www.coldsteel.com/chswbr.html)

Also if anyone can explain what the difference in suppose to be...:confused:

[Lucas]

did you see this? (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-77.html)

[bawang]

does anyone know which styles of kung fu trains the mace and hammer?
i really like the kung fu hammer but i never met anyone that trains it

[SanHeChuan]

did you see this?

You know I did. Even put my own link to it in my first post.

It's amazing what you can find with the right characters, but I don't understand any of it.

Can anyone translate this awesomeness? (http://www.huaxia.com/sy-tw/sjyy/06-2.htm)

Findings

Wasn't there somebody looking for Vajra

http://www2.nacta.edu.cn/site/jjdj/files/u1/bian.jpg

Jian and Bian

http://www.54djc.cn/pic/081216155356.jpg
http://www.lqzsdj.com/pic/0956184921.jpg
http://www.lqzsdj.com/pic/0961710049.jpg
http://www.zhongguohongxing.com/image/products/military锏20gift/feilongjian.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm300/lovemoonar/leigongbian/30367185.jpg
http://attach.scimg.cn/month_0905/20090517_d5a1601c1c8ebeb476e8A3vx136yCtzp.jpg
http://www.bbker.com/img/F419738421.jpg
http://img.club.dayoo.com/club_data/upload_photo/travel/2008/09/22/147736/147739.jpg

This looks like my best bet so far to you think they ship to the US? (http://www.lqzsdj.com)


Wish I could understand the Chinese wiki (http://www.hudong.com/wiki/)

[Lucas]

anyone know the general historics around who used the swordbreakers in china for the most part? i know in japan the sai was generally reserved for authorative figures as most had swords, the sword breaker was an upper hand. Similarly to the western sword breaker counterparts, often used by enforcement figures.

thats i nice site. i want this:

http://www.lqzsdj.com/pic/098694950.jpg

[GeneChing]

I think the difference is semantic. 鞭 bian is the character for whip, used for both hard whips (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-77.html) and soft whips (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-27.html). 锏 jian is often confused for 劍 jian. The first refers to what you have posted above (mace isn't a great translation...I've heard rapier too, also not so good). The second means sword (http://www.martialartsmart.com/weapons-chinese-weapons-tai-chi-swords.html). I've found the jian/bian distinction rather nebulous. I've heard some state that jian are straight and bian are knurled. I've also heard that size and weight are distinctive factors. Given that these are fairly secular weapons, I'm sure they are subject to a lot of folk permutations in terms of the definitions.

bawang, I've seen sledgehammer trained in modern wushu, albeit not anymore. I've seen melon hammers (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-023.html) in Songshan Shaolin.

[Yum Cha]

Hmmmmmm....

I've been training double sword (Dao) with two pieces of thick galvanised re-bar. Wow, I've been training the hard whip as well, it seems...

[SanHeChuan]

two pieces of thick galvanised re-bar.

I've been looking into that, where did you get the rebar? I can't find the thick one's #11 and #14.

[Yum Cha]

I picked up the offcuts at a building site. About 12-14mm thick, and shorter than a dao.

They don't have the 'thick to thin' balance apparent in the mace though.... I just use them for weighted training mostly.

[uki]

i got my 21lb iron bar at the local scrapyard for 6 bucks... there are lots of cool pieces of metal, that you can do lots of cool things with, to be found in metal scrapyards. :)

[Yum Cha]

i got my 21lb iron bar at the local scrapyard for 6 bucks... there are lots of cool pieces of metal, that you can do lots of cool things with, to be found in metal scrapyards. :)


When it comes to blokes-world, scrap yards (builders recycling centre) are right up there with the best of them.

A real man's hardware store :p

[Hebrew Hammer]

bawang, I've seen sledgehammer trained in modern wushu, albeit not anymore. I've seen melon hammers (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-023.html) in Songshan Shaolin.

My Chan Family Choy Lee Fut school also used Melon Hammers in their weapon sets...I always wanted to train with them to! :(

[SanHeChuan]

thats i nice site. i want this:

Yeah, gene should get a distributorship.


My Chan Family Choy Lee Fut school also used Melon Hammers in their weapon sets...I always wanted to train with them to!

I was going to say CLF. I don't know if there is a weapon they don't have.

double hammers
CLF (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ5zSWDsgE)
Shaolin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JRuPSkmJyg)
7 star mantis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-er33dCQDOI)