grappling/submission from a tiger's perspective [Archive]

Hardwork108

11-28-2009, 12:30 PM

here's a view from one angle... *a tiger's approach* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__JYhJJXZr8&feature=related)

it's quite obvious some of these are not allowed sport competitions... or am i mistaken? can you use neck-breaks? i am a bit blurry here, but am i remembering correctly that you cannot intentionally break your opponents bones or joints in a sport fight?? gotta love the hair pulling!!!

comments please...

hahahahahahahahahaha!!!! :p

Hello Uki,

This YouTube video is a very interesting one and it stands testament to the richness of the TCMAS.

I had posted it here before myself as a demonstration of a TCMA that addresses grappling and the ground scenario. No need to say that many of this forum's clueless "kung fu-ists" put it down and even ridiculed it.

Did they have an intellectual point of reference for their confused attitudes? No, of course not, All they had was the usual "I have decades of experience in a zillion (god knows in what..Lol) martial arts". So, it was a case of the usual "Bjj is best" and the "TCMAs are not functional", BS.

They had no clue of Chin-na being applied in such scenario and missed a lot that to a REAL kung fu practitioner would have been a "gold mine". Instead they focused on ridiculing the "screaming" and the traditional clothes. It was like discussing kung fu with a bunch of school girls, LOL.

In the video itself one can see internal elements among the TCMA principles. The movements are soft and flowing. One can see "following, as force returns"; there are floating principles visible; there is no resistance to force and there are high level "listening" and "sensitivity" aspects shown.

The video has a lot in it besides the "pyjamas" and the "screaming".:)

HW108

Yum Cha

11-28-2009, 02:34 PM

That's cool Uki. Sorry I missed the other thread first time around.

I'll bet that a lot of the foot lock application is pretty common in other grappling arts, but I really liked the rolling takedowns to capture the foot.

There is an interesting principle in his grappling, which is having the sensitivity, training or experience, to know where the weak point is in the opponents structure, and diverting power into it. Chin Na. He just takes the opportunity while visiting to mess up the furnishings.

The techniques he applies are only secondary, its his breakdowns I like.

uki

11-28-2009, 02:41 PM

bawang

11-28-2009, 02:56 PM

qin na+ high pitched shouting like an old woman being gang raped by orangatangs = chinese special tiger kung fu
AWESOME I WANT TO LWARN

Lee Chiang Po

11-28-2009, 03:02 PM

Wow. I like this kind of stuff. I have a 4th black belt in jujitsu, and we do some of this stuff. And my older brothers taught me stuff quite similar. The noises are cool too. As a distraction mouth sounds can be very applicabe. Look at Bruce Lee. I can make some the most startling sounds just before attacking with blinding speed. All seriousness aside, what was this called again? This stuff would be great in MMA fighting, but you will never see it. Those guys depend on physical strength and endurance rather than real grappling skills. I bet that gets a rise.

LCP

Yum Cha

11-28-2009, 03:42 PM

I had the sound off, looks like I missed something....LOL...

Frost

11-30-2009, 06:48 AM

Frost

11-30-2009, 06:49 AM

Hello Uki,

This YouTube video is a very interesting one and it stands testament to the richness of the TCMAS.

I had posted it here before myself as a demonstration of a TCMA that addresses grappling and the ground scenario. No need to say that many of this forum's clueless "kung fu-ists" put it down and even ridiculed it.

Did they have an intellectual point of reference for their confused attitudes? No, of course not, All they had was the usual "I have decades of experience in a zillion (god knows in what..Lol) martial arts". So, it was a case of the usual "Bjj is best" and the "TCMAs are not functional", BS.

They had no clue of Chin-na being applied in such scenario and missed a lot that to a REAL kung fu practitioner would have been a "gold mine". Instead they focused on ridiculing the "screaming" and the traditional clothes. It was like discussing kung fu with a bunch of school girls, LOL.

In the video itself one can see internal elements among the TCMA principles. The movements are soft and flowing. One can see "following, as force returns"; there are floating principles visible; there is no resistance to force and there are high level "listening" and "sensitivity" aspects shown.

The video has a lot in it besides the "pyjamas" and the "screaming".:)

HW108

[ep because what would grapplers and MMA guys know about grappling and ground fighting :cool:

How can you say people should listen to those that know about real kung fu because we have no clue, then you yourself not listen to real grapplers and ground fighters when they offer advice on a subject you are clueless on?

Dragonzbane76

11-30-2009, 08:51 AM

This YouTube video is a very interesting one and it stands testament to the richness of the TCMAS.

I had posted it here before myself as a demonstration of a TCMA that addresses grappling and the ground scenario. No need to say that many of this forum's clueless "kung fu-ists" put it down and even ridiculed it.

Did they have an intellectual point of reference for their confused attitudes? No, of course not, All they had was the usual "I have decades of experience in a zillion (god knows in what..Lol) martial arts". So, it was a case of the usual "Bjj is best" and the "TCMAs are not functional", BS.

They had no clue of Chin-na being applied in such scenario and missed a lot that to a REAL kung fu practitioner would have been a "gold mine". Instead they focused on ridiculing the "screaming" and the traditional clothes. It was like discussing kung fu with a bunch of school girls, LOL.

In the video itself one can see internal elements among the TCMA principles. The movements are soft and flowing. One can see "following, as force returns"; there are floating principles visible; there is no resistance to force and there are high level "listening" and "sensitivity" aspects shown.

The video has a lot in it besides the "pyjamas" and the "screaming".

HW108

your going to say that TCMA has a "gold mine" of ground tech. and only work on it maybe a tad? When BJJ and Judo work constantly on the ground. Why go to the second rate when you can get the gold for ground fighting in BJJ and other grappling arts?
but trying to tell you anything is like pulling teeth. :rolleyes:

sanjuro_ronin

11-30-2009, 09:05 AM

uki

11-30-2009, 09:07 AM

The HAHAHAHAHAHAH part, is right on the buttonthe button still seems to be stuck!!

Ray Pina

11-30-2009, 09:57 AM

David Jamieson

11-30-2009, 10:05 AM

I liked the first move, I've seen that in Hung Gar.

Related, I hate the idea of animal kung fu. A human should not try to replicate an animals natural defense and nature. A man is not a tiger, snake, etc nor equipped to defend themselves like one.

This idea is not perpetuated in bonafide animals styles. At least, not as I have been taught.

The idea is from people who don't understand and have not been taught animal styles.

To pronounce this as a pillar concept of practice of animals styles is revelatory of the person making the pronouncement as one who has not actually been taught. :)

in which case, as a practitioner of animal styles of kungfu from sil lum, I also hate that idea. :p

sanjuro_ronin

11-30-2009, 10:41 AM

I liked the first move, I've seen that in Hung Gar.

The subsequent moves he actually gives up his own back after the throw. On none of the throws does he secure position.

I fast forward a bit and see defenses against leg grabs and kick catches. Here's the issue. Static like that they seem to make sense. I real life, a person shooting or stuffing a kick is coming forward with momentum and intention. Anyone standing on one leg like that is getting dumped.

I do like the idea of attacking the head/neck ... this is one area I always have problem with in sport BJJ. They don't protect their head enough because it wont get struck and can always tap.

I have seen some brutal fights end with someone in turtle taking knees to the cranium.

Related, I hate the idea of animal kung fu. A human should not try to replicate an animals natural defense and nature. A man is not a tiger, snake, etc nor equipped to defend themselves like one.

People are NOT animals and as such, technically and technique-wise, they can't fight like animals.
The 5 animals, for example, were syetms based on the strategies and "intents" of those animals.
Aggresive like a tiger, fluid like a dragon ,etc.
Sometimes I system would denote a mode of applying a technqiue, like the coiling of a snake or the evasive action of a crane.
As with all things, certain moves and hand formations became "noted" with those systems, like the tiger claw.
Was the tiger claw an equivelant to a real tiger claw? of course not, not unless someone grew out some seriously long and strong finger nails.
But the claw was used effectively and with the proper intent of the "animal shaman", it became very "tiger-like".
But don't think that the growling and "theatrical" crap was anything but theatrical.

uki

11-30-2009, 11:46 AM

But don't think that the growling and "theatrical" crap was anything but theatrical.i beg to differ... mankind has a primal nature and i firmly believe if it is put into use, the growling will occur naturally... many times i stub a toe, or bang a shin, smoosh a pinky and growl like an animal.

sanjuro_ronin

11-30-2009, 12:02 PM

i beg to differ... mankind has a primal nature and i firmly believe if it is put into use, the growling will occur naturally... many times i stub a toe, or bang a shin, smoosh a pinky and growl like an animal.

Hey, dude, whatever turns you on man.

You're probably one of those "yelling while doing a surprise attack" people, not many of you left you know, wonder why...
:D

goju

11-30-2009, 12:22 PM

you know ray those styles really dont mimic the anaimals per say

tiger stylist dont run around on all fours going RAWWWWWWR! at people lol

Hardwork108

11-30-2009, 12:40 PM

[ep because what would grapplers and MMA guys know about grappling and ground fighting :cool:
No,not really, it was more of a case of what would grapplers and MMA guys, with questionable understanding of kung fu know about the TCMA approach to the ground scenario.

How can you say people should listen to those that know about real kung fu because we have no clue,
Which you don't!

then you yourself not listen to real grapplers and ground fighters when they offer advice on a subject you are clueless on?
"Advice" is one thing, but blind and clueless criticism is another!!!!

Read Ray Pina's take on this video and you will see that he is giving a balanced and eloquent view. I don't agree with everything that he says but his position is to be respected as he did not come out ridiculing things blindly.

HW108

Hardwork108

11-30-2009, 12:49 PM

your going to say that TCMA has a "gold mine" of ground tech. and only work on it maybe a tad?
TCMA addresses the ground scenario more than you think.

When BJJ and Judo work constantly on the ground. Why go to the second rate when you can get the gold for ground fighting in BJJ and other grappling arts?
As usual, you are missing the bigger picture. It is not about ground fighting or stand up fighting. It is about fighting. Most if not all TCMAs provide the answers you are looking for, but perhaps not in ways that you expect. All you need is to study one major style holistically and profoundly. Of course, in the Mcdojo era this is easier said than done. So if all else fails, there is nothing wrong with looking for your answers in a BJJ or Judo dojo.

but trying to tell you anything is like pulling teeth. :rolleyes:

From where I am sitting , it looks like you are pulling out your own teeth. LOL!

HW108

PS. Read Ray Pina's post on this subject so that you get an idea how to approach this disucssion from an intelligent MMA perspective,

Ray Pina

11-30-2009, 12:50 PM

you know ray those styles really dont mimic the anaimals per say

tiger stylist dont run around on all fours going RAWWWWWWR! at people lol

I know, but I've been around Kung Fu long enough... plenty of fools with visions of grandeur about the strength of their finger strikes and claws. Even if they could produce the pain they think they can while in REAL combat, how much training to achieve that when an elbow opens people up and stops them quite effectively without all the drama.

Ray Pina

11-30-2009, 01:04 PM

TCMA addresses the ground scenario more than you think.

I've seen it addressed by Hung Gar, Wing Chun, Southern Mantis, Ba GUa, Hsing-I and Taiji.... The best three were the last three but it all relied upon stuffing the shot, usually with a counter attack. Very difficult to counter attack when someone attacks while changing levels. You're focused on the game where it is and then not only does their countenance change, but so does their level. This is why sprawling works. Instead of trying to capture a head and an arm and roll to flip someone, it's easier to dive the legs back once you realize the change. If you did it well enough and in time you have great position. That's enough. That's a realistic return for being right.

I still think if one wants to train the ground game BJJ is the way to go. Its constantly evolving and being pushed, tested internationally. The stuff is beautiful, uncomplicated and it works.

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WD36oHTnU

I like that guys style.

Ray Pina

11-30-2009, 01:06 PM

My last post got me thinking about traditional form... most of them have level changes, yet when I see Kung Fu and Karate guys spar (not point) I rarely if ever see them change levels.

I think this comes from not fighting out enough and being forced to break from the traditional norm. Someone as keen as you can be taken advantage of by changing levels.

uki

11-30-2009, 02:21 PM

you know ray those styles really dont mimic the anaimals per say

tiger stylist dont run around on all fours going RAWWWWWWR! at people loli dunno... you should see me after i eat an 1/8th of shrooms. :p

Dragonzbane76

11-30-2009, 02:44 PM

From where I am sitting , it looks like you are pulling out your own teeth. LOL!

haha if that's what you think, keep on thinking it has no effect on me. you really need to lighten up. your way to uptight about stuff.. :)

TCMA addresses the ground scenario more than you think.

but not totally in the way BJJ and grappling arts do.

As usual, you are missing the bigger picture. It is not about ground fighting or stand up fighting. It is about fighting. Most if not all TCMAs provide the answers you are looking for, but perhaps not in ways that you expect. All you need is to study one major style holistically and profoundly. Of course, in the Mcdojo era this is easier said than done. So if all else fails, there is nothing wrong with looking for your answers in a BJJ or Judo dojo.

again you put words in my mouth. I'm not looking for "your" bigger picture. I'm very happy with what I am doing. Anyways this post was about some dude doing a tiger tech. I was commenting that if you want the 'good stuff' go were it is.
and another thing don't tell me what I need to do, you may get away with that in your spartan regiment, doesn't work on the internet... sheee...:rolleyes:

P.S. do you really think i want to carry on an intelligent conversation with you? :D grow up.... i don't care what you think, i care that u spout your dogma to everyone around here like it's the honest truth. Your like a carpetbagger selling snake oil for the right price. Your a dime a dozen just like every other person out there selling there mythical heal all crap. poison would be a better word. but hey it's my opinion and i'm more than welcome to it.

you've already shown me enough of your "philosophy" to really not care for an intelligent conversation with you.

PS. Read Ray Pina's post on this subject so that you get an idea how to approach this disucssion from an intelligent MMA perspective,

Knifefighter

11-30-2009, 04:21 PM

TenTigers

11-30-2009, 05:06 PM

People are NOT animals and as such, technically and technique-wise, they can't fight like animals.
The 5 animals, for example, were syetms based on the strategies and "intents" of those animals.
Aggresive like a tiger, fluid like a dragon ,etc.
Sometimes I system would denote a mode of applying a technqiue, like the coiling of a snake or the evasive action of a crane.
As with all things, certain moves and hand formations became "noted" with those systems, like the tiger claw.
Was the tiger claw an equivelant to a real tiger claw? of course not, not unless someone grew out some seriously long and strong finger nails.
But the claw was used effectively and with the proper intent of the "animal shaman", it became very "tiger-like".
But don't think that the growling and "theatrical" crap was anything but theatrical.

Excellent post overall, however I will take issue with the last statement.
In our Hung-Ga, the breathing in each animal, along with their respective sounds serve a purpose.
The breathing in Dragon is akin to the throaty hiss heard in saamjien, and serves the same purpose, packing the breath/organs, and releasing pressures, allowing the practitioner to absorb strikes to the body.
The "Tsst" in Snake is a quick, short release of portions of breath, while maintaining a reserve. As one of my former Sifus (Michael Manganiello) said, "They are very miserly with their breath." One breath, several strikes.
The "Wah" sound of the Tiger originates in the chakra of the solar plexus, and according to the noi-gung I was taught, is used to release anger. The "FFU" sound used on the Single Tiger, provides the float,sink,swallow,spit technique used in that movement.
The "Op" sound of the Crane is a quick release,used together with a sinking of the body (we make the sound more like a breathed, "hup," and do not use the "OOOP" sound you see many do in demos-frankly, I have no freakin idea what they are doing) This helps release the bin-ging, or whipping energy for the specific strikes.
The Leopard uses short,quick breaths, as you would use for a jab, and longer breaths for the long armed strikes.
Nothing mystical or theatrical.
Then again, this is the way my Gung-Fu is played, and might be different than what others do.
. Muay Thai uses different sounds as well. Some people go, "oish," some hiss, some go "Aaaghht", etc. depending on the technique and school.

Ray Pina

11-30-2009, 05:58 PM

i dunno... you should see me after i eat an 1/8th of shrooms. :p

That made me laugh you freak:)

Ray Pina

11-30-2009, 06:08 PM

People who actually do grappling/groundfighting for real against actual skilled, resisting opponents know which of those techs work and which of them don't. The guy on the video doesn't have a clue which of those are viable and which are not.

I have to agree with this for one reason only: Many, if not most of the early throws I saw left him in equal if not lesser position then the man he threw. This is a video he's putting out to promote himself or his style, I have to assume he thinks its good.

The throws themselves are beautiful. The neck captures and cranks very cool. But to be on your a$$ with your legs in the air and not immediately recover to lock down side control, get guard, take the back, shows a lack of understanding the absolute fundamentals of ground fighting ... all fighting: position. position. position.

To attempt to capture the head -- while on one leg -- instead of immediately fighting to recover your own captured leg (either from a shoot or stuffed kick) reveals that A) the person has never had to "finish" the move because one can not generate adequate power from that position and B) doesn't truly understand the stakes... ie, he will be dropped and at the mercy of an educated ground man who WILL secure position and work it.

Just my thoughts. But again, I think its great to be having the conversation. I honestly don't know why Kung Fu guys don't moonlight at BJJ clubs. They're there. They'll condition the hell out of you, teach you new valuable skills and generally make you a better physical/balanced being.

Yum Cha

11-30-2009, 11:41 PM

Excellent post overall, however I will take issue with the last statement.
In our Hung-Ga, the breathing in each animal, along with their respective sounds serve a purpose.
The breathing in Dragon is akin to the throaty hiss heard in saamjien, and serves the same purpose, packing the breath/organs, and releasing pressures, allowing the practitioner to absorb strikes to the body.
The "Tsst" in Snake is a quick, short release of portions of breath, while maintaining a reserve. As one of my former Sifus (Michael Manganiello) said, "They are very miserly with their breath." One breath, several strikes.
The "Wah" sound of the Tiger originates in the chakra of the solar plexus, and according to the noi-gung I was taught, is used to release anger. The "FFU" sound used on the Single Tiger, provides the float,sink,swallow,spit technique used in that movement.
The "Op" sound of the Crane is a quick release,used together with a sinking of the body (we make the sound more like a breathed, "hup," and do not use the "OOOP" sound you see many do in demos-frankly, I have no freakin idea what they are doing) This helps release the bin-ging, or whipping energy for the specific strikes.
The Leopard uses short,quick breaths, as you would use for a jab, and longer breaths for the long armed strikes.
Nothing mystical or theatrical.
Then again, this is the way my Gung-Fu is played, and might be different than what others do.
. Muay Thai uses different sounds as well. Some people go, "oish," some hiss, some go "Aaaghht", etc. depending on the technique and school.

Hey Sui Lum brother, just for a point of contrast, our breathing is totally different. When I train, I breathe in and squeeze it out over a 'duration'. The sounds are simply by products. Likewise, I train to move in the inhale as well as the exhale. You shouldn't hear my breath punctuate my movements, and my movement is not restrained by my breathing.

The result from the slow squeezing out of breath is similar to what you call Dragon.

Not sure if this kind of breathing has a name, I just know its not Sui Lum style generally. I think its Taoist.

Hardwork108

12-01-2009, 01:00 AM

I've seen it addressed by Hung Gar, Wing Chun, Southern Mantis, Ba GUa, Hsing-I and Taiji....
I believe that there would even be differences withing individual lineages of each of the above styles as to how they dealt with the ground scenario.

The Mainland Chinese lineage of Wing Chun that I practice has ground fighting training as a part of its traditional curriculum. There is nothing borrowed from BJJ or Judo. Unfortunately, I had to move away before I reached that level. Even though I meet up with sifu every so often to train when I travel to Rio, it is usually to polish up what I already know rather than learning new skills. All I can say is this kind of ground fighting involves going to ground and finishing the job there through the use of Chin-na and striking while maintaining the WC prinicples.

The best three were the last three but it all relied upon stuffing the shot, usually with a counter attack. Very difficult to counter attack when someone attacks while changing levels. You're focused on the game where it is and then not only does their countenance change, but so does their level. This is why sprawling works. Instead of trying to capture a head and an arm and roll to flip someone, it's easier to dive the legs back once you realize the change. If you did it well enough and in time you have great position. That's enough. That's a realistic return for being right.

I agree with you that the method you described is a more practical and logical method. Knowing the TCMAs, IMHO, if one manages to learn their approach(s) which is more complicated (as in a lot of things they do, Lol) one can have a valid method to play with. Next question would be where to learn this in a world full of Mcdojos/kwoons?

I always say this because most people who practice TCMAs do not seem to do so holistically that is in a hard core all encompassing way. How many people do we see with a perfect Iron Palm/fist, ETC, skill? How many who have fine tuned sensitivity, how many who have the real body unity and destructive and or shock power that one can get from proper internal practice? How many so called TCMA practitioners even understand the concepts behind what I described. I am making a general point.

Going on and staying with Tiger Claw. How many people who practice this style can do any damage with their fingers (claws). In many other kung fu styles the conditioning of fingers has been fundental as they provide the longest reach that the upper limbs provide and they can do a lot of damage if they are hard and used with RELAXED power.

I use this example because after all, we use our claws or fingers to grab, hence grapple. The fact is that many people go through the motions of a given style and end up learining some tricks that may or may not come handy in a street scenario depending on many other factors. Once they meet a trained fighter from another style then they are in trouble because they are badly trained in a kung fu "shell" style.

Many TCMAs will teach you to hit the incoming take down attempt using a (vibrating) palm strike to the head or in some cases an elbow (or other strike), but how are you going to do that if your strikes bounce off the incoming fighter ( that is, no real power!!!). How is one going to make contact without having the awareness, calmness and the sensitivity to "listen" to the changes in your opponent. These are skills that one is supposed to learn albeit in a relatively longer term when training higher level TCMAs. However, nowadays people with "years" of TCMA experience are not even aware of the concepts I just mentioned or if they are it will usually be a superficial understanding, with no idea of the profound levels that these concepts go to.

So I really believe that the way things are today in the TCMA world, one is unlikely to learn any TCMA arts in a holistic way (unless one is really lucky and comes across an authentic school that will teach him and he in turn has the attention span to follow the distinct methodology required). That being the case then I can understand the need for many to look outside to complete their skills. It is all fair and square as there are many functional external arts that will do the trick in a shorter time span.

I still think if one wants to train the ground game BJJ is the way to go. Its constantly evolving and being pushed, tested internationally. The stuff is beautiful, uncomplicated and it works.

I would say that if grappling arts are your main interest then BJJ is one of the best options.

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WD36oHTnU

I like that guys style.

Thank you. That is a great demonstration of the effectiveness of BJJ. I used to see a lot of those guys when I used to live in Rio de Janeiro (I am hoping to live there again in the not so distant future). My sifu used to teach his WC in a gym owned by BJJ instructors. All the BJJ guys that I saw were very respectul to sifu and us kung fu guys in general.

HW108

Hardwork108

12-01-2009, 01:42 AM

haha if that's what you think, keep on thinking it has no effect on me. you really need to lighten up. your way to uptight about stuff.. :)

How much more can I lighten up besides laughing my head off every time I read one of your "kung fu" posts.?..LOL.

but not totally in the way BJJ and grappling arts do.
How many "decades"of training did it take you to realize that? Lol

again you put words in my mouth.
Honestly, I am not as I wouldn't know where to start...Lol

I'm not looking for "your" bigger picture.

Isn't the purpose of life to look at the bigger picture? And it is not "my" bigger picture as the bigger picture is constant. Think about it!

I'm very happy with what I am doing.

And as I have said to you many times before, if you are happy then I am happy.:)

Anyways this post was about some dude doing a tiger tech.
From my past interaction with you I have realized that you have an aversion to the use of the word, master, but using the word, "Dude"? COME ON!!! LOL

Just call him sifu instead of "dude" or is this a modern scientifically approved way of addressing kung fu teachers that I have not heard about? LOL

I was commenting that if you want the 'good stuff' go were it is.
My "good stuff" is incorporated in my kung fu training. If yours is not then please go where your "good stuff" is.;)

and another thing don't tell me what I need to do, you may get away with that in your spartan regiment, doesn't work on the internet... sheee...:rolleyes:

Actually, what you need to do is to NOT address your posts to me because I prefere to talk about authentic kung fu training and we all know that you will end up with a confused glazed look on your face every time you read about the more unusual kung fu practices. And of course, none of us want to worry any of your loved ones who may stand witness to your hopeless confusion...LOL

P.S. do you really think i want to carry on an intelligent conversation with you? :D
You would if you were intelligent.;)

grow up.... i don't care what you think, i care that u spout your dogma to everyone around here like it's the honest truth.
I spout "dogma"? LOL
Read my post to Ray Pina and see if you see any "dogma" there......LOL

Your like a carpetbagger selling snake oil for the right price.
Why should i sell anything to you? In the past I presented a TCMA training methodology that was alien to you. You more or less said "if I don't know about it then it does not exist". I more or less replied that you were clueless and that there are a lot more unknown (to you) concepts where that came from. End of the story!!!! I am not selling a school, DVDs etc. So don't be so confused go and sit down and meditate using some internal breathing to cool down. This advice was free and there is not price tag to it. LOL

Your a dime a dozen just like every other person out there selling there mythical heal all crap. poison would be a better word. but hey it's my opinion and i'm more than welcome to it.
You are being purposefully deceitful with the above remark. Can you elighten us to EXACTLY what you are referring to? Thanks in advance.

you've already shown me enough of your "philosophy" to really not care for an intelligent conversation with you.
Is that why you composed your idiotic post above? LOL!

HW108

Frost

12-01-2009, 01:57 AM

i love when people talk about real kung fu but then won't speak about their lineage or how long they have trained.... that speaks volumes about how much training they have had :rolleyes:

now back on topic as knifefighter said those that have grappled know which of those techniques will work and which won't,

Hardwork108

12-01-2009, 02:16 AM

i love when people talk about real kung fu
Well, that is a start...LOL.

but then won't speak about their lineage or how long they have trained.... that speaks volumes about how much training they have had :rolleyes:

What should speak volumes to you is the content of my posts regarding authentic kung fu practices. Anyone can put up lineages and impressive training time spans here. Others here have had intelligent discussions with me. Look and learn. ;)

Your "problem" stems from a past thread where you having not managed to recognize a certain TCMA power building methodology that I was talking about, went on to recommend Olympic weight training ( you really, and I mean really, couldn't invent this stuff...LOL)practices to improve the methodology of a relatively obscure kung fu lineage that you had no idea about.

Then you had the audacity to ask for my lineage and history as if me typing some number and a name on the World Wide Web would enlighten you to the methodology you had not heard of...LOL I mean what hope would you have of recognizing the sifu, lineage and its not so well known, methodology? The answer is NOTHING! You are just trying to save face....LOL.

HW108

Frost

12-01-2009, 02:49 AM

Well, that is a start...LOL.

What should speak volumes to you is the content of my posts regarding authentic kung fu practices. Anyone can put up lineages and impressive training time spans here. Others here have had intelligent discussions with me. Look and learn. ;)

Your "problem" stems from a past thread where you having not managed to recognize a certain TCMA power building methodology that I was talking about, went on to recommend Olympic weight training ( you really, and I mean really, couldn't invent this stuff...LOL)practices to improve the methodology of a relatively obscure kung fu lineage that you had no idea about.

Then you had the audacity to ask for my lineage and history as if me typing some number and a name on the World Wide Web would enlighten you to the methodology you had not heard of...LOL I mean what hope would you have of recognizing the sifu, lineage and its not so well known, methodology? The answer is NOTHING! You are just trying to save face....LOL.

HW108

Trying to save face is an eastern concept not something I am interested in, nor is arguing with someone who has no idea about how other arts train jing/shock power. I never mentioned chow gar in any of my posts, I only came into the discussion to show David he was wrong about weight lifting, I then mentioned I had trained in, shock power, iron palm and iron body, I never mentioned I had trained in chow gar (these things are trained in other southern and internal arts)

I said you can increase power using modern methods like Olympic lifting, actually I originally said to David “why get worked up about jing, its just sound body structure and the ability to relax and exert force quickly, all of which can be learned through weight training .”

Why is it audacity to ask for lineage? you are the one going on about authentic kung fu and authentic teachers, I simply asked you to show us how authentic your teachers were, to put your money where your mouth is…. I am still waiting…..

Oh I don’t know I know a fair few of the southern maters teaching in the UK, I believe that’s where you learned your chow gar… and if I don’t I am sure someone else here knows of them…………

uki

12-01-2009, 03:08 AM

Why is it audacity to ask for lineage? you are the one going on about authentic kung fu and authentic teachers, I simply asked you to show us how authentic your teachers were.at the end of the day each and every person will have a martial art that is completely and entirely their own, the only true lasting things a so called teacher/master/sifu/sensei will give to us are a set of concepts, methods, and ideals that we must construct into a shape and form that bests suits our strengths and weakness, which evolve with us as we progress - what i am saying is that ultimately we are the only true masters of ourself. i had the pleasure of meeting a certain woman named marilyn cooper, who was a student of a certain peter kwok. one of the first things she told me was, "i am not your teacher, i am just a messenger." those words were driven into my being... LOL... interesting thing about her is that she is an earth ox, which is the same exact sign that my boss is... the ox is considered the only sign that a tiger should be wary of - both are thee biggest influences that have had a drastic and profound impact on how i percieve the world... this sign is also the sign of the newborn child that will be born to us in just under a month from now, so this event will bring the grand tally total of the earth ox's that have impacted my life to 3. on the other end of the spectrum, the only way i am able to cope with these two unstoppable and immovable beasts of ambition is the fact that my element of wood subdues their element of earth... hahahahahahahaha!!! even though they can trample me down like a herd of buffalo, i can still scratch their a$$ with my sharp little claws. :p

back on topic... the argument of the non resiting opponent is moot. this appears to be an informational video, therefore the concept in it's perfect and unflawed state is shown - not to show what will happen each and every time it is attempted, but rather to give us another constructive idea that we can add to our possibility of execution when an appropriate situation arises. :)

Dragonzbane76

12-01-2009, 05:28 AM

I'm sorry Mr. HW8 lol... most of the time i just laugh at you. you try you.. do ...

anyways,

How many "decades"of training did it take you to realize that? Lol

so now your asking me my background? from my understanding that's a mystery around here with you as well. :p

Isn't the purpose of life to look at the bigger picture? And it is not "my" bigger picture as the bigger picture is constant. Think about it!

actions are the real measure, something you are probably unfamiliar with.

From my past interaction with you I have realized that you have an aversion to the use of the word, master, but using the word, "Dude"? COME ON!!! LOL

Just call him sifu instead of "dude" or is this a modern scientifically approved way of addressing kung fu teachers that I have not heard about? LOL

haha don't like dude? modern scientifically approved waja majiger? yeah keep your voodoo to yourself. I have no need to call anyone sifu/master/teacher until they have taught or given information worth interest to me. and i still wouldn't call them master.

My "good stuff" is incorporated in my kung fu training. If yours is not then please go where your "good stuff" is.

i do every day thank you very much. :)

Actually, what you need to do is to NOT address your posts to me because I prefere to talk about authentic kung fu training and we all know that you will end up with a confused glazed look on your face every time you read about the more unusual kung fu practices. And of course, none of us want to worry any of your loved ones who may stand witness to your hopeless confusion...LOL

there you go again trying to tell me what "I need to do" as for the confused glazed look I believe everyone you talk to about your authentic kung fu aquires this glazed confused look. "US" meaning singular? your in your own little universe.

You would if you were intelligent.

I would if i didn't already know the crap you spew from your mouth.

I spout "dogma"? LOL
Read my post to Ray Pina and see if you see any "dogma" there......LOL

haha when don't you. :)

Why should i sell anything to you? In the past I presented a TCMA training methodology that was alien to you. You more or less said "if I don't know about it then it does not exist". I more or less replied that you were clueless and that there are a lot more unknown (to you) concepts where that came from. End of the story!!!! I am not selling a school, DVDs etc. So don't be so confused go and sit down and meditate using some internal breathing to cool down. This advice was free and there is not price tag to it. LOL

haha you are clueless to your own malcontent. It's fine most people like you are. You presented to me a mythical trip down your martial arts world. no thanks I can see what you have to offer and it's nothing i haven't seen from the 5 and dime mcdojo down the street. And i will reply that not everyone wants what you have to offer!!! I feel sorry for any student you ever teach. all the ninja/teleporting/dim mak crap this poor poor person will have to sift through to learn that he needs to go do some cross training. :)
and this advise isn't free everyone has to pay for it in the real world.

Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76
you've already shown me enough of your "philosophy" to really not care for an intelligent conversation with you.

Is that why you composed your idiotic post above? LOL!

is that why you compose your idiotic posts every day? no mine was to express my apprehention with what you are totting as MA's. It's clear to everyone that you are just a hoodini of the MA's world.

sanjuro_ronin

12-01-2009, 06:51 AM

Excellent post overall, however I will take issue with the last statement.
In our Hung-Ga, the breathing in each animal, along with their respective sounds serve a purpose.
The breathing in Dragon is akin to the throaty hiss heard in saamjien, and serves the same purpose, packing the breath/organs, and releasing pressures, allowing the practitioner to absorb strikes to the body.
The "Tsst" in Snake is a quick, short release of portions of breath, while maintaining a reserve. As one of my former Sifus (Michael Manganiello) said, "They are very miserly with their breath." One breath, several strikes.
The "Wah" sound of the Tiger originates in the chakra of the solar plexus, and according to the noi-gung I was taught, is used to release anger. The "FFU" sound used on the Single Tiger, provides the float,sink,swallow,spit technique used in that movement.
The "Op" sound of the Crane is a quick release,used together with a sinking of the body (we make the sound more like a breathed, "hup," and do not use the "OOOP" sound you see many do in demos-frankly, I have no freakin idea what they are doing) This helps release the bin-ging, or whipping energy for the specific strikes.
The Leopard uses short,quick breaths, as you would use for a jab, and longer breaths for the long armed strikes.
Nothing mystical or theatrical.
Then again, this is the way my Gung-Fu is played, and might be different than what others do.
. Muay Thai uses different sounds as well. Some people go, "oish," some hiss, some go "Aaaghht", etc. depending on the technique and school.

Oh, yes, I agree, gut I was referring to the "over done" stuff on the video, sorry it wasn't clear.

Ray Pina

12-01-2009, 08:00 AM

The breathing in Dragon is akin to the throaty hiss heard in saamjien, and serves the same purpose, packing the breath/organs, and releasing pressures, allowing the practitioner to absorb strikes to the body....
The "Wah" sound of the Tiger originates in the chakra of the solar plexus, and according to the noi-gung I was taught, is used to release anger....

Nothing mystical or theatrical.

I could see how some could take the above as at least slightly mystical.

This got me thinking though. In karate I trained the Ki yell like everyone else, it was n my forms and I was forced to do it... but I never liked it. When I get mad fighting or on sport, I tend to press my lips together, internalize it and let it out in my strike. That's just my preference. Always has been.

The last few months some Tai Kown Do guys have been training adjacent to us and there's this teenage (18/19) black belt who makes the funniest noise, very Bruce Lee like, when kicking pads. Whatever, but my point is, I have found it dangerous to have my mouth open at all when in striking range. One shot to chin and there can be trouble.

How do you incorporate these sounds into combat?

Also, I understand the importance of breath control for taking and delivering strikes, but aren't sounds a product of the throat, unrelated? I'm not sure of that which is why I ask. I;'m looking for education on the subject.

sanjuro_ronin

12-01-2009, 08:13 AM

Getting hit with your mouth open = broken jaw.
There is combat breathing and "development" breathing.
Some systems breathe through the nose in combat some choose the "clenched" teeth variation.
Very few "combat oriented" systems advocate "open" mouth breathing in a fight.

Ray Pina

12-01-2009, 09:07 AM

That's what I was wondering, how one goes about making these tiger, dragon, snake and whooping crane noises while in contact range.

sanjuro_ronin

12-01-2009, 09:24 AM

That's what I was wondering, how one goes about making these tiger, dragon, snake and whooping crane noises while in contact range.

Very carefully.
:D

The sounds teach us how the body "feels" when done correctly, after that you can make the body do that "feel" without the "correct sounds", with "combat breathing".

TenTigers

12-01-2009, 09:34 AM

Yum Cha and Sanjuro, The noises are audible in the form,are to teach the student how to breathe, but when understood, they can be done without the sound, and with the mouth closed. You feel it in your body. Just as in the Tiet Sien Kuen.
Ray-different sounds resonate in different places in the body. If you are doing kiai from the throat, as we see in tournaments, then you create tension there. Not healthy. Even singers are told to sing from their diaphragm. The Kiai is supposed to come from the dan tien (hara) NOT from the throat.
As far as "feeling it in your body," we all know when we have tension in different parts of our body, and we can feel when and where our breath is labored, forced, constricted. It comes with experience.
The "portioned" breath and striking on the inhale is a difficult skill to master, at least for me. I can do it well when I practice, but when I am going at it hard with my teacher, I still find it difficult to maintain. Too much going on. Meanwhile, he can go at it with me, and then three other guys in a row, without losing wind.

Ray, I can see where the Chakra stuff can be seen as mystical, but it is a physical thing. Emotions are felt in the body.
You know how your throat tightens up when you're mad or frustrated, and you get that lump in your throat, and that knot in your stomach. Same thing.
The hei-gung teaches you to become aware of these and you learn how to release the pressures, and dissipate the breath along with the anger. This can heal, as negative emotions wreak havoc on your immune system, raising hom0cystine levels,and lowers t-cells.
If done incorrectly, it could do just the opposite, which is why they always caution people to do this under proper guidance.
But it's purely physiological, and not mystical.

lkfmdc

12-01-2009, 09:50 AM

taai gihk yahn

12-01-2009, 09:54 AM

But it's purely physiological, and not mystical.
IMPO, mystical arrises out of a lack of knowledge regarding the function of physiological (and by extension the environmental)

healing sounds "work" because they interact w/the autonomic nervous system in a manner that is at once straight forward, but at the same time operates in context of complex systems theory - meaning that input / output is not always a 1:1 direct correlation - it is yet another example of how the body / organism can take in a variety of different inputs (sound, movement, herbs, manual therapy etc.) and use them as fulcra to leverage itself back towards homeostasis (also known as regression towards the mean / norm);

taai gihk yahn

12-01-2009, 09:55 AM

did I just freak you out? ;)

no, that got taken care of in the first few minutes about 25 years ago...:p

lkfmdc

12-01-2009, 09:59 AM

The ignorance = mystical thing is quite obvious if you stop to think about it

I learned quite a lot of internal
I can tell you that the good stuff does in fact "work"
Of course, "work" is a subjective definition
I also can't for the life of me explain the psyiology of what is "working"\

But I took that stuff, sat down with Taai Gihk Yaan and he, because he has the training, can explain what is going on, why it's going on, etc

IN the past, I could have said "oh, it's magical gummy bear drops" and I can tell you, some students would buy it hook line and sinker....

TenTigers

12-01-2009, 10:17 AM

"But Mom, he said they were magic beans!"
yep. Still holds true today.:rolleyes:

Ray Pina

12-01-2009, 11:47 AM

completely off the original topic

but in Tit Sin - you can do the "sounds" without doing them. Since this isn't reality anyway, it can be done "in your mind" with the same effect IF you train it with that mindset....

did I just freak you out? ;)

That's what I ultimately learned to do without being taught. I know how to do that "tightening" in my stomach (Dan Tien) to take a blow. I know how to sink the breath and ribs to generate power.

Also related, a hmmmmmm vibrated from my stomach all the way up to my slightly g clenched lips when I'm really going for a escape or pass.

Is there any science on this? Like I said, these were things that just expressed themselves after about 5 to 7 years of karate. All totaled I put about 10 into the system. But that might be the curriculum. The teaching it without teaching it. The doing, forms, sparring, training produced it.... just thinking out loud here

uki

12-01-2009, 11:50 AM

That's what I ultimately learned to do without being taught. I know how to do that "tightening" in my stomach (Dan Tien) to take a blow. I know how to sink the breath and ribs to generate power.

Also related, a hmmmmmm vibrated from my stomach all the way up to my slightly g clenched lips when I'm really going for a escape or pass.

Is there any science on this? Like I said, these were things that just expressed themselves after about 5 to 7 years of karate. All totaled I put about 10 into the system. But that might be the curriculum. The teaching it without teaching it. The doing, forms, sparring, training produced it.... just thinking out loud hereimagine that... the master emerged from within and you discovered things for yourself without being formally taught by anyone else. :p

TenTigers

12-01-2009, 12:20 PM

Is there any science on this? Like I said, these were things that just expressed themselves after about 5 to 7 years of karate. All totaled I put about 10 into the system. But that might be the curriculum. The teaching it without teaching it. The doing, forms, sparring, training produced it.... just thinking out loud here

that's really it. Certain things are learned only through time, development, refinement, understanding. The "secret" of Martial Arts is just that. PUT IN THE TIME.

uki

12-01-2009, 12:23 PM

PUT IN THE TIME.imagine that... time in energy.

sanjuro_ronin

12-01-2009, 12:32 PM

That's what I ultimately learned to do without being taught. I know how to do that "tightening" in my stomach (Dan Tien) to take a blow. I know how to sink the breath and ribs to generate power.

Also related, a hmmmmmm vibrated from my stomach all the way up to my slightly g clenched lips when I'm really going for a escape or pass.

Is there any science on this? Like I said, these were things that just expressed themselves after about 5 to 7 years of karate. All totaled I put about 10 into the system. But that might be the curriculum. The teaching it without teaching it. The doing, forms, sparring, training produced it.... just thinking out loud here

MA is a personal journey Bro, glad you figured that out.
There is a time t be taught and a time to learn.

uki

12-01-2009, 12:39 PM

MA is a personal journey Bro, glad you figured that out.it's all a personal journey...

There is a time t be taught and a time to learn.a time to be like water and a time to burn. :)

sanjuro_ronin

12-01-2009, 12:52 PM

it's all a personal journey...
a time to be like water and a time to burn. :)

Hippie !
:p

http://www.carriehoffman.com/gloryblog/sexyhippie.jpg

uki

12-01-2009, 12:56 PM

Hippie !
:p

http://www.carriehoffman.com/gloryblog/sexyhippie.jpgwow. now that would be a sight to behold while taking a journey on magical mushrooms. :D

Yum Cha

12-01-2009, 02:23 PM

wow. now that would be a sight to behold while taking a journey on magical mushrooms. :D

ah....DUH!

Kids these days....no understanding of history....

Hardwork108

12-02-2009, 05:04 PM

Trying to save face is an eastern concept not something I am interested in,
Even so, it is an interesting area for people such as yourself to "cross train" in. ;)

nor is arguing with someone who has no idea about how other arts train jing/shock power.
The subject in discussion was Chow Gar, Not other arts!!!

I never mentioned chow gar in any of my posts,
You did however imply that Olympic Weight training would be beneficial to its methodology without having a minute idea of this profound art's methodology. LOL

I only came into the discussion to show David he was wrong about weight lifting,
How could you do that when you admittedly have no clue of traditional Chow Gar methodology. Were you critical of David because his lack Olympic weight lifting credentials? LOL

I then mentioned I had trained in, shock power, iron palm and iron body

Yes, the world is full of people who have "trained" in shock power, Iron Palm and Iron body.........

I never mentioned I had trained in chow gar
Then why criticize their methodology or imply that external weight training would be beneficial to their methodology when you have absolutely no idea of their internal methodology.

(these things are trained in other southern and internal arts)

Of course they are, but because of distinct methodologies attributed to different styles their "energies" are different.

So are you saying that you are an Olympic Weight lifting, cross training kung fu internalist? Now I have seen every thing! LOL

I said you can increase power using modern methods like Olympic lifting,
And I am telling you that Olympic weight lifting will negate a lot of the results that traditional Chow Gar methodology aims to achieve.

actually I originally said to David “why get worked up about jing, its just ound body structure and the ability to relax and exert force quickly, all of which can be learned through weight training .”
Yes, why listen to your sifu when you can just lift weights to get your power. Also, there is "slightly" more to jing than your description.

Why is it audacity to ask for lineage? you are the one going on about authentic kung fu and authentic teachers, I simply asked you to show us how authentic your teachers were, to put your money where your mouth is…. I am still waiting…..
It is audacity because you are not at all familiar with Chow Gar methodology, so giving you a name will not make any difference to your understanding. You can either understand a methodology or not understand it. Giving you names and addresses will not enhance your understanding of a given methodology.

Furthermore, there are people here who name their lineages/credentials etc. which on the surface look impressive but when you read their posts you see them for the clueless lot that they are. So what I know is in my posts not in some names (that i could even make up). I don' t need to see your lineage to know that you are unaware of some TCMA methodologies. It is all in your posts!

I will also add that there are many sifus who do not wish to have their names dragged across internet forums. My Wing Chun sifus name was "leaked" into this forum by none other than Sanjuro "I know everything" Ronin, who did it out of spite, a couple of years ago and was dragged all over the place here as a part of a disinformation campaign to discredit many of the methodolgies that I was writing about. One of the people who did this was Lkfmdc, who is also referred to, by some naive posters here as a "sifu". Yes, the internet is full of laughs.:rolleyes:

Oh I don’t know I know a fair few of the southern maters teaching in the UK, I believe that’s where you learned your chow gar… and if I don’t I am sure someone else here knows of them…………

What are proposing to do, send a team of investigators check out my lineage if I give you a name? LOL

Would it not be easier to go along yourself and train in the relevant methodology and find out for yourself?

Also, IMHO there are not EVEN a "fair few" Southern masters in the UK, just very few (you can count them on one hand) who teach openly.;)

You really need to understand the degree of restriction on the availabitlity of certain TCMA methodologies.

HW108

Hardwork108

12-02-2009, 05:36 PM

I'm sorry Mr. HW8 lol... most of the time i just laugh at you.
Simple minds laugh at irrelevancies. Lol.

you try you.. do ...
I try, but you never learn. I guess you need to get a good sifu to explain it all to you.;)

so now your asking me my background?[quote]
Not really. As far as I am concerned the evidence of your knowledge, or in the case of Chow gar, the lack off, is in your posts. Lol

[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76]from my understanding that's a mystery around here with you as well. :p
IMHO, from your UNDERSTANDING point of view, the TCMA world is full of mysteries...lol

actions are the real measure, something you are probably unfamiliar with.
When you see the bigger picture then your actions become limited to the relevant necessities.

haha don't like dude? modern scientifically approved waja majiger? yeah keep your voodoo to yourself. I have no need to call anyone sifu/master/teacher until they have taught or given information worth interest to me. and i still wouldn't call them master.
I have feeling that no authentic master has ever (made you) their sihing either. ;)

i do every day thank you very much. :)
Hence your "understanding" of the internals, but still, as I stated before if what you train makes you happy then I am happy for you.

there you go again trying to tell me what "I need to do" as for the confused glazed look I believe everyone you talk to about your authentic kung fu aquires this glazed confused look.
Not every one just 95 to 97% of you guys. ;)

"US" meaning singular?
"US" refers to 3 to 5% my dear boy. LOL

I would if i didn't already know the crap you spew from your mouth.
If you say that you don't read my posts then why read and keep coming back? Why don't you research and investigate the internal TCMA methodology that has left you so confused and disoriented? That would be the only way to go for you if you are interested in authentic kung fu. Otherwise, be my guest, go and pump iron until your brain explodes. LOL

haha when don't you. :)
You see any methodology that you don't understand as dogma...LOL.

haha you are clueless to your own malcontent. It's fine most people like you are. You presented to me a mythical trip down your martial arts world. no thanks I can see what you have to offer and it's nothing i haven't seen from the 5 and dime mcdojo down the street. And i will reply that not everyone wants what you have to offer!!! I feel sorry for any student you ever teach. all the ninja/teleporting/dim mak crap this poor poor person will have to sift through to learn that he needs to go do some cross training. :)
and this advise isn't free everyone has to pay for it in the real world.

I believe you to be clueless to authentic kung fu methodologies and hence you react to certain concepts the way indigineous people reacted when they saw mirrors for the first time. You MISUNDERSTAND EVERY THING...LOL

So you think the concept of building power without the use of weight training in the Western sense is "ninja/teleporting/dimmak? LOL,LOL Don' tell me, you also believe that you live in a Democracy and your president actually cares about your country and every one in it? LOL,LOL,LOL

is that why you compose your idiotic posts every day? no mine was to express my apprehention with what you are totting as MA's. It's clear to everyone that you are just a hoodini of the MA's world.

Your apprehension is based on you being a Macdojo fodder. You were taught some half truths regarding the tCMAS and then you filled in the gaps doing whatever worked. Now whatever art that it is that you do may be valid on its own but it is not real kung fu, so don' t try to fool anyone and stop kidding yourself!

HW108

Hardwork108

12-02-2009, 05:41 PM

back on topic... the argument of the non resiting opponent is moot. this appears to be an informational video, therefore the concept in it's perfect and unflawed state is shown - not to show what will happen each and every time it is attempted, but rather to give us another constructive idea that we can add to our possibility of execution when an appropriate situation arises. :)

Very good point. I am sure the master in the video can adapt what he does to different situations and give valid answers to the "what ifs?".

HW108

taai gihk yahn

12-02-2009, 05:52 PM

Very good point. I am sure the master in the video can adapt what he does to different situations and give valid answers to the "what ifs?".

HW108

how can you be sure of that? there is no way to know whether he has actually utilized what he shows in an actual fight, or in a competitive venue of any sort; and even if he could come up with answers to the "what if's", it doesn't mean that those answers are necessarily valid;

point is, regardless of whether it's TCMA ground techniques or from another completely different approach, mistakes are still mistakes; and some of what he shows, puts him in a position where he would be in a heap of trouble if he were facing anyone with grappling experience from any approach; now, I get the point that he is showing things in an "idealized" manner; but in fact, it is because he is doing it this way that he can get away with making the mistakes that he makes; meaning that if he were to demonstrate against a resisting opponent, things would ook very different; so different, that it begs the question as to what the point of showing things in an idealized manner really is, if it's so different than in actual application (I'd ask this about a lot of TCMA)

now I am not saying that everything he shows is bad, far from it (and I have no critiques about his outfit, or the noises he makes - that's all well and good, I can understand the rationale behind the latter); my issue is that mixed in w/the good is a fair amount of not-good, and to ignore the latter out of consideration for the former is simply to turn a blind eye;

so my point is that while there is validity in some of what he does, the areas where he demonstrates a lack appear to be significant enough to put what he does into question

Dragonzbane76

12-02-2009, 06:13 PM

Simple minds laugh at irrelevancies. Lol.

simply put i care nothing for your irrelevancies. :)

I try, but you never learn. I guess you need to get a good sifu to explain it all to you.

and you would be that "sifu" Mr. carpetbagger? no thanks, I know your kind lol:)

Not really. As far as I am concerned the evidence of your knowledge, or in the case of Chow gar, the lack off, is in your posts. Lo

i never stated that i knew chow gar... again putting words in my mouth. you really need to learn better manners. lol :rolleyes:

IMHO, from your UNDERSTANDING point of view, the TCMA world is full of mysteries...lol

life is full of mysteries Mr. carpetbagger and if you think you've achieved the pinacle then you are a fool. love how you look down upon everyone around you... how is the wind up there from your perch? far is the fall Mr. Carpetbagger.

When you see the bigger picture then your actions become limited to the relevant necessities.

when you start limiting your life then the passion dies. Why not throw yourself off a cliff while your at it? Might save some of your Pupils the heart ache of learning that you teach them garbage one day. ;)

I have feeling that no authentic master has ever (made you) their sihing either.

think we've covered this ground already. I'll leave it to my previous posts.

Not every one just 95 to 97% of you guys.

and again labeling people your just awesome like that :D

"US" refers to 3 to 5% my dear boy. LOL

and like I said before Mr. carpetbagger if that 3-5% is people like you I want absolutely no part of it.

If you say that you don't read my posts then why read and keep coming back? Why don't you research and investigate the internal TCMA methodology that has left you so confused and disoriented? That would be the only way to go for you if you are interested in authentic kung fu. Otherwise, be my guest, go and pump iron until your brain explodes. LOL

Because Mr. carpetbagger I enjoy messing with people like you. It's fun. heheh who said I pump iron? I've never stated that? although I do go to the gym but never mentioned it here. hehe throwing me into that meathead group again you sly dog....:) ahhh... Mr. carpetbagger your funny.

You see any methodology that you don't understand as dogma...LOL.

nope just everything you say because I know the kinda person you are.

I believe you to be clueless to authentic kung fu methodologies and hence you react to certain concepts the way indigineous people reacted when they saw mirrors for the first time. You MISUNDERSTAND EVERY THING...LOL

So you think the concept of building power without the use of weight training in the Western sense is "ninja/teleporting/dimmak? LOL,LOL Don' tell me, you also believe that you live in a Democracy and your president actually cares about your country and every one in it? LOL,LOL,LOL

think what you will of my background matters not. my reaction has nothing to do with kung fu. It's with you Mr. Carpetbagger selling your crap. Speaking of mirrors you should look long and hard in one yourself to see the poison spewing out. NO I UNDERSTAND YOU COMPLETELY AND WHAT YOU ARE.

Again putting this weight training label on me i've never stated once to anyone about that. My beliefs in politics are not my beliefs in the MA's world sorry no fish for you there Mr. Carpetbagger.

Your apprehension is based on you being a Macdojo fodder. You were taught some half truths regarding the tCMAS and then you filled in the gaps doing whatever worked. Now whatever art that it is that you do may be valid on its own but it is not real kung fu, so don' t try to fool anyone and stop kidding yourself!

hehe my apprehension again is with you Mr. carpetbagger. I've seen my share of macdojos out there and hell you were probably teaching one of them. Seen enough of them to smell one a mile away and you my friend are rank. My "gap" filling was probably the best choice i ever made in MA's. I've had some real training in souther style Kung fu under such teachers as Mike Marshall, and the one thing i've learned from all this is that there is no complete 'style' and when you think there is then you become stagnet and rot and die. you always have to evolve into other things and Mr. carpetbagger i do not see you evolving, you just swim circles in your little puddle outside the big river.

I'm enjoying myself... you've brightened my day :)

Hardwork108

12-02-2009, 11:06 PM

PART 1

simply put i care nothing for your irrelevancies. :)

You would, if you were intelligent. :)

and you would be that "sifu" Mr. carpetbagger? no thanks, I know your kind lol:)
You misunderstand (AGAIN!!!). I am not a sifu and I have never claimed to be! I am a student of kung fu.

i never stated that i knew chow gar... again putting words in my mouth. you really need to learn better manners. lol :rolleyes:
Whoops, did I just mix you up with another clueless kung fu-ist? If so, then sorry. It is just there are so many of you here that I mix you guys up. LOL

life is full of mysteries
That seems true from where you are sitting. I guess a simple mind will see mysteries every where.

Mr. carpetbagger
He called me "mister"!:eek:

and if you think you've achieved the pinacle then you are a fool.
You are the fool for concluding that I ever stated something like that. It is not my the level of my kung fu knowledge that is in question but rather the level of your kung fu cluelessness!

I hope that you understand the issue now.:)

love how you look down upon everyone around you...
That is a false statement and you know it!

I only look down on the clueless who do not admit a lack of knowledge in a given area. Some of whom even go on to ridicule people who have enough guts to admit unfamiliarity with certain TCMA aspects.

how is the wind up there from your perch? far is the fall Mr. Carpetbagger.
The wind is good up here. How is the wind down there in the clueless land?

when you start limiting your life then the passion dies.

Exactly!

That is why I suggested to you looking at the bigger picture. Let's work together and see wether you can learn a little bit about life and TCMAs in this thread.

Furthermore, those who really understand the TCMAs know that there are no "limits". Don't think too much on that last statement as none of us here want your head to explode or anything like that. Lol

Why not throw yourself off a cliff while your at it?
I will if you want but it is going to be all of you clueless "kung fu-ists" who are going to be squashed on the bottom when I jump down from my "pinnacle"...LOL.

Might save some of your Pupils the heart ache of learning that you teach them garbage one day. ;)
Again, I am not a sifu!

think we've covered this ground already. I'll leave it to my previous posts.
Actually all of the "ground" has been covered by both of us and yet you keep coming back, just like in this thread when your first interaction with me!!!!!

and again labeling people your just awesome like that :D
The "label" based on a factual phenomenom known as Mcdojo or more accurately in this case, the McKwoon phenomenom, and the more clueless and insecure remarks I read then the more it verifies this phenomenom.

and like I said before Mr. carpetbagger if that 3-5% is people like you I want absolutely no part of it.
Let me then thank you on behalf of the 3-5%. We are all eternally gratful for your kindness and understanding. :D

Because Mr. carpetbagger I enjoy messing with people like you.
I understand, but don't you think that your time would be better spent on actually training some authentic TCMAs so that in the future you can avoid making clueless comments in forums such as this?

It's fun. heheh
Boy you really need to get a life or perhaps find a woman. Try a bimbo as they are more "functional"...LOL

who said I pump iron? I've never stated that? although I do go to the gym but never mentioned it here.
See, us TCMA guys can read minds, even simple ones like yours. Lol

hehe throwing me into that meathead group again you

Maybe you are not a meat head but you make points that most meat heads and knuckleheads in this forum would agree with. Perhaps, you are a part time meat head?

sly dog....:) ahhh...
Hey, that is what my wife calls me! LOL

Mr. carpetbagger your funny.
Simple minds laugh at inappropriate subjects.

nope just everything you say because I know the kinda person you are.
You see every unknown concept as dogma because of your own insecurity based on your lack of TCMA knowledge and other personal factors from your own life, it seems.

Hardwork108

12-02-2009, 11:07 PM

PART 2....LOL

think what you will of my background matters not.
Well as far as TCMAs are concerned then of course your background is not sufficient!

my reaction has nothing to do with kung fu.

Of course not, how could it? I mean the following is background in your own words:

I agree with the last few posts.

I think a lot has to do with your body proportions to. I'm a bigger guy and pretty strong, my first background was in wrestling. Later got into kung fu and learned a good deal about kicks and punching, then branched out into BJJ and Judo type fighting, but the one thing that always comes back is my background in wrestling. It was my first "MA" if you could call it that. When ever things get heated up i like the clinch and take down.

I'm comfortable on my feet though. Having the wrestling background and catch/wrestling i'm always consious of the take down.

LOL!

So what is someone like you going to discuss with someone like me regarding even the slightly deeper aspects of TCMA training, concepts and methodology. You cannot even discuss particular aspects. All you and people like you can do is give an opinion based on your cross-training (jack of all trades) or MMA-esque backgrounds. That means most of your "educational comments" are doomed to failure! You don't have a point of reference!

The only person with a similar back ground who tends to make sense is Ray Pina, even if I don't agree with everything he says, but he is rarity. He has his path and he is finding his way along it while most of you cross trainers are running around in circles trying hopelessly to come off as knowledgable regarding the TCMAs and are failing dismally!!!!

It's with you Mr. Carpetbagger selling your crap.
I am not selling anything. I talk about valid TCMA methodologies. You are just being insecure because you are basically clueless about most of the subject matter. LOL

Speaking of mirrors you should look long and hard in one yourself to see the poison spewing out.

If you see facts and truth as hurtful or "poison" then the problem is with your own insecurities and weaknesses!

NO I UNDERSTAND YOU COMPLETELY AND WHAT YOU ARE.
At this point in time, I am not sure if you, yourself understand what you are. LOL

Again putting this weight training label on me i've never stated once to anyone about that.

Blame my TCMA "magic" powers that enable me to read your mind.:D

My beliefs in politics are not my beliefs in the MA's world sorry no fish for you there Mr. Carpetbagger.
I tell you what. Forget politics and forget TCMAs and stick to wrestling. Believe me your head won't hurt so much trying to figure things out.:)

hehe my apprehension again is with you Mr. carpetbagger. I've seen my share of macdojos out there
Now, why was I aware of that fact already? LOL

and hell you were probably teaching one of them.
I am not a sifu.:)

Seen enough of them to smell one a mile away
Maybe they could smell you too? :D

and you my friend are rank.
I am not a sifu.:)

My "gap" filling was probably the best choice i ever made in MA's.

Of course it was. You fill gaps because there are gaps! I wonder why?
And while you are filling in gaps, why not try and fill in the gap between your ears?
It will do you good and the rest of us can have discussions here without you making provocative posts in search of arguments with me.

I've had some real training in souther style Kung fu under such teachers as Mike Marshall,
The world is full of people who have trained kung fu....LOL
I don' t know your sifu from Adam, however based on your "illuminating" posts I can only comment that IMHO you need a lot more "real training".

and the one thing i've learned from all this is that there is no complete 'style'

There are complete styles. However, that does not mean that they specialize in all areas. However, you will find that some of them compensate for what they do not specialize in.

and when you think there is then you become stagnet and rot and die.
If you think that sticking to one style of kung fu will make you "stagnate and die"then you are proving my point about you being clueless in regards authentic TCMA training. Actually, you are as far away from the truth as possible!

you always have to evolve into other things
The key word there is EVOLVE and if you knew anything about authentic TCMA training then you would know how significant that word is. However, you don't, and that is because you really are not a kung fu man.

and Mr. carpetbagger i do not see you evolving,
That would be because from where you are at the bottom of the ditch, your view of my pinnacle is poor. Find a decent kung fu school and train hard and one day you may have a better view of yours truly.:D

you just swim circles in your little puddle outside the big river.

And still I have more TCMA knowledge than you. Where does that put you, the worm hole next to the puddle?

I'm enjoying myself...
:eek:

Don't tell me how but you really should find a woman as I believe you have really, and I mean really, misunderstood what is meant by internal practice. LOL

you've brightened my day :)
Blame it on my "magic" kung fu powers. ;)

HW108

Hardwork108

12-02-2009, 11:49 PM

Getting back to the thread.

how can you be sure of that? there is no way to know whether he has actually utilized what he shows in an actual fight, or in a competitive venue of any sort; and even if he could come up with answers to the "what if's", it doesn't mean that those answers are necessarily valid;
Maybe I should have reworded my statement to say that there was a good chance that the sifu could explain his techniques and their variations in relation to different combat situations.

That is the problem with videos. There is no interaction. If you are there and the sifu demonstrates a given technique then you can ask about the what ifs and I have trained with at least one sifu who would demonstrate the what ifs on the students so that they would know how the whole thing worked.

However, watching a video like this one can only critique it up to a certain point as there is no feed back with the actual master who was demonstrating the techniques.

point is, regardless of whether it's TCMA ground techniques or from another completely different approach, mistakes are still mistakes; and some of what he shows, puts him in a position where he would be in a heap of trouble if he were facing anyone with grappling experience from any approach;
Again, only that master can answer these queries with something we can agree or even disagree with. As far as we know, there could be a possible plan be B, C or even D as a back up for any counter attack coming from the opponent. All martial arts take into account possible counter attacks.

now, I get the point that he is showing things in an "idealized" manner; but in fact, it is because he is doing it this way that he can get away with making the mistakes that he makes;

It may look like a mistake to us but perhaps he takes into account his vulnerability and has a back up move for it. Or perhaps not. One will only know if one is in a class or a seminar with this sifu and puts the questions to him. Again and IMHO, what we can presume from watching the video clip is kind of limited.

Let me give you an example.There is a way of blocking a front kick in some Crane based styles, where the defendor lowers the body and blocks with a double wing hand. Most Ma-ists, not familiar with this style, will see this and say, "hey, he is leaving his face and upper body open for a hand strike", However, this a misconception which I was also guilty of until I was shown the wisdom behind such tactics.

Because of such experiences that nowadays I usually reserve my judgment of any given technique that might look "Iffy" for after it has been explained/demonstrated to me personally.

meaning that if he were to demonstrate against a resisting opponent, things would ook very different; so different, that it begs the question as to what the point of showing things in an idealized manner really is, if it's so different than in actual application (I'd ask this about a lot of TCMA)
I agree with you but at the same time, I know from experience, that a lot of TCMA techniques are not what they seem to be at first glance. That is why a personal explanation/demonstration is so important.

Many people have seen video clips of other kung fu grappling and they make similar comments about how a good grappler could defeat the kung fu approach. Well, when my WC was in London doing a seminar he demonstrated the particular WC grappling approach of his Mainland Chinese lineage with one of the people present there. He was a big guy and knew how to grapple. I was not in the Uk on the weekend of this seminar but my kung fu brother who was told me that sifu let the guy take him down hard on a wooden floor and within seconds had the grappler under control. This was apparently witnessed by a couple of UK WC guys who post on these forums and I remember one of them describing this in one of the threads a couple of years ago.

Now, I am sure that if sifu had demonstrated whatever technique that he used on a video cip using one of his students, then every one and their grand mothers would be criticizing the approach, using the usual "what ifs" and perceived weakness, etc.

now I am not saying that everything he shows is bad, far from it (and I have no critiques about his outfit, or the noises he makes - that's all well and good, I can understand the rationale behind the latter); my issue is that mixed in w/the good is a fair amount of not-good, and to ignore the latter out of consideration for the former is simply to turn a blind eye;
so my point is that while there is validity in some of what he does, the areas where he demonstrates a lack appear to be significant enough to put what he does into question

I would personally point to the good and give the rest the "unknown" label. Another reason for my attitude would be the fact that I don't know the type of internals and sensitivities involved in this system and indeed within the arsenal of this particular sifu. A lot of "useless" kung fu techniques become useful when the exponent has the required body unity and fine tuned sensitivity that come from training the internal methodology. So, I would reserve judgment until I know more. :)

Dragonzbane76

12-03-2009, 05:56 AM

If this was on paper there would be no tree's left....lol

You would, if you were intelligent.

repeating... sigh... I would care if I wanted an intelligent conversation with you.

You misunderstand (AGAIN!!!). I am not a sifu and I have never claimed to be! I am a student of kung fu.
congrats i hope you never teach anyone then.

Whoops, did I just mix you up with another clueless kung fu-ist? If so, then sorry. It is just there are so many of you here that I mix you guys up. LOL
your just a mixed up kinda guy we all see it. no biggie lot of you out there.

That seems true from where you are sitting. I guess a simple mind will see mysteries every where.and i'm glad i still see life as full of mysteries. Your life must be extremely boring. :rolleyes:

You are the fool for concluding that I ever stated something like that. It is not my the level of my kung fu knowledge that is in question but rather the level of your kung fu cluelessness!

I hope that you understand the issue now.
actually the title of this thread was about grappling tech. this guy was doing. Never seen in the title that my knowledge base was in question. just as you put words in my mouth so can I :)

That is a false statement and you know it! would you like to take a poll? haha

That is why I suggested to you looking at the bigger picture. Let's work together and see wether you can learn a little bit about life and TCMAs in this thread.

Furthermore, those who really understand the TCMAs know that there are no "limits". Don't think too much on that last statement as none of us here want your head to explode or anything like that. Lol
Again what makes you think i want anything from you. lol

I will if you want but it is going to be all of you clueless "kung fu-ists" who are going to be squashed on the bottom when I jump down from my "pinnacle"...LOL. labeling labeling blah blah blah... keep on truckin Mr. carpetbagger. arrogance in there as well. my statement hold still.

Actually all of the "ground" has been covered by both of us and yet you keep coming back, just like in this thread when your first interaction with me!!!!!
persistant am I. I'm just trying to open your eyes to the bigger world of MA's. maybe some good judo or muay thai would help you to focus. :) trying to do my civic duty and help...lol of course some people can't be helped which you fall nicely into the catagory.

The "label" based on a factual phenomenom known as Mcdojo or more accurately in this case, the McKwoon phenomenom, and the more clueless and insecure remarks I read then the more it verifies this phenomenom.
then Mr. carpetbagger you would fall into this catagory...:)

I understand, but don't you think that your time would be better spent on actually training some authentic TCMAs so that in the future you can avoid making clueless comments in forums such as this? Boy you really need to get a life or perhaps find a woman. Try a bimbo as they are more "functional"...LOL
your sets and standards do not apply to me Mr. Carpetbagger. Speaking of clueless comments your full of them. Yeah my wife would enjoy me picking up a bimbo...lol... lets keep the insults between us Mr. Carpetbagger. If your running out of things to put me down on I'm sure we can find something else. :)

Dragonzbane76

12-03-2009, 05:56 AM

part dahhhh...

See, us TCMA guys can read minds, even simple ones like yours. Lol Like i've stated Simplisity is my master no other. :)

Hey, that is what my wife calls me! LOLI could inject a comment here but unlike you I'll keep this between us. :cool:

You see every unknown concept as dogma because of your own insecurity based on your lack of TCMA knowledge and other personal factors from your own life, it seems.
on the contrary I get along with mostly everyone here... there are a few but they are in your 3-5% and we know what I think of your 3-5%. Can't you get it Mr. Carpetbagger... DO I NEED TO PUT IT IN CAPS? "IT'S YOU, NOT EVERYONE ELSE"

Well as far as TCMAs are concerned then of course your background is not sufficient!think what you will lol...

So what is someone like you going to discuss with someone like me regarding even the slightly deeper aspects of TCMA training, concepts and methodology. You cannot even discuss particular aspects. All you and people like you can do is give an opinion based on your cross-training (jack of all trades) or MMA-esque backgrounds. That means most of your "educational comments" are doomed to failure! You don't have a point of reference!

The only person with a similar back ground who tends to make sense is Ray Pina, even if I don't agree with everything he says, but he is rarity. He has his path and he is finding his way along it while most of you cross trainers are running around in circles trying hopelessly to come off as knowledgable regarding the TCMAs and are failing dismally!!!! I never knew we were discussing "deeper" aspects of CMA. I thought this thread was about grappling of which as I stated and you so eloquently highlighted I do have a background in. Mr. Carpetbagger if you do not like my opinion you can put me on Ignore... it's this new internet invention.....lol :p You will not change my opinon especially about you.

I am not selling anything. I talk about valid TCMA methodologies. You are just being insecure because you are basically clueless about most of the subject matter. LOL Oh but you are... your putting your crap out there like it is the only MA's on this planet.. and it's for sale by you to any misfortunate person sorry enough to listen.

At this point in time, I am not sure if you, yourself understand what you are. LOL got a kick outta this... we'll leave it open keep you on your toes. lol

Blame my TCMA "magic" powers that enable me to read your mind.Oh i will along with all the other voodoo you posses...:p

I tell you what. Forget politics and forget TCMAs and stick to wrestling. Believe me your head won't hurt so much trying to figure things out.again with the "telling me what to do" you have control issues Mr. Carpetbagger you should get looked at for that.

Of course it was. You fill gaps because there are gaps! I wonder why?
And while you are filling in gaps, why not try and fill in the gap between your ears?
It will do you good and the rest of us can have discussions here without you making provocative posts in search of arguments with me.haha again if you do not like my opinions Mr. carpetbagger then put me on ignore. Like I said the best choice I ever made was filling those gaps.

There are complete styles. However, that does not mean that they specialize in all areas. However, you will find that some of them compensate for what they do not specialize in.compensate but do not hold the essence of it. compensate is the key word... why compensate when you can have to true essense? Cross train my carpetbagging friend ahh... I'm sure if you were smart enough a light bulb would appear above your head but i'll not hold you to things i know you are not capable of.

If you think that sticking to one style of kung fu will make you "stagnate and die"then you are proving my point about you being clueless in regards authentic TCMA training. Actually, you are as far away from the truth as possible!haha you cannot read or something. never said to stop your TCMA, putting words in my mouth again. the beauty of it you can go to other MA's and still go to your chi fireball/dim mak classes.

The key word there is EVOLVE and if you knew anything about authentic TCMA training then you would know how significant that word is. However, you don't, and that is because you really are not a kung fu man. think what you will because we all know you'll let us know. If it had not been significant I would not have stated it mr. carpetbagging fool.

That would be because from where you are at the bottom of the ditch, your view of my pinnacle is poor. Find a decent kung fu school and train hard and one day you may have a better view of yours truly.I prefer to be at the bottom of the ditch at least i'm still connected to reality and not soaring at the peaks of arrogance and blindness. I'll stay right here and be happy with my crosstraining ways. :)

And still I have more TCMA knowledge than you. Where does that put you, the worm hole next to the puddle?congrats in your high assesments lol. nah i'm down the river fishing for the next idiot like you who makes my day go by much faster. :p

Don't tell me how but you really should find a woman as I believe you have really, and I mean really, misunderstood what is meant by internal practice. LOLdrivel at best... good try again lets keep it between us.

Blame it on my "magic" kung fu powers. you can bet on it Mr. carpetbagger....:D

uki

12-03-2009, 07:24 AM

you two need to get a room. :p

TenTigers

12-03-2009, 07:27 AM

ok. What I have to say is of much greater importance that the last two pages of,
"You are" "No, YOU are..." that I feel the need to interrupt, if only for a moment.

How do you post those multiple quotes? I can only get one quote per response.

Iron_Eagle_76

12-03-2009, 07:40 AM

How do you post those multiple quotes? I can only get one quote per response

You obviously don't know the power of the dark side!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebigdurian/14687402/sizes/s/

uki

12-03-2009, 07:44 AM

How do you post those multiple quotes? I can only get one quote per response.each part of the original quote you want to break apart, you have quote /quote it... paste it, copy save, quote someone elses post, repeat as needed. paste the final copy to an empty reply. :)

uki

12-03-2009, 07:49 AM

This stuff would be great in MMA fighting, but you will never see it. Those guys depend on physical strength and endurance rather than real grappling skills. i missed this somehow... personally i think the McMA guys are too COOL to use their voices in their martial arts... well besides going, "YEAH!!!" *pumps fist the air* it's all about that tough guy image... i think i am gonna go get a trendy tribal tattoo on my shoulder now. :D :p :)

Dragonzbane76

12-03-2009, 08:14 AM

i think you should uki it would match the skid mark you have down your face :)

Dragonzbane76

12-03-2009, 08:15 AM

you two need to get a room.

lol we would argue about the size and shape of it then and wouldn't get anything accomplished. :p

Hardwork108

12-03-2009, 09:48 PM

If this was on paper there would be no tree's left....lol
And then you would have no friends in this world. LOL

repeating... sigh... I would care if I wanted an intelligent conversation with you.
You would if you were intelligent.;)

congrats i hope you never teach anyone then.
Well, it won't be you for sure as I would require a higher IQ from any future pupil of mine then you would ever hope to possess...LOL

your just a mixed up kinda guy we all see it.
Yeah, I mix up the Meat heads with the knuckleheads.....LOL

no biggie lot of you out there.
I would not refer to 3-5%, as a lot. :D

and i'm glad i still see life as full of mysteries.
You probably see the dawn of the day and night fall as mysteries but you will figure them out in a couple of more decades.

Your life must be extremely boring. :rolleyes:
Only when I am reading posts from clueless "kung fu-ists" such as yourself with presumably "decades of experience". LOL

actually the title of this thread was about grappling tech. this guy was doing. Never seen in the title that my knowledge base was in question. just as you put words in my mouth so can I :)
This is a kung fu thread in a kung fu forum. So was the forms thread in which you posted your memorable insights...LOL

would you like to take a poll? haha
Of course not as I know for sure that 95 to 97%, that is your fellow Mcdojo-ists, would agree with you. LOL

Again what makes you think i want anything from you. lol
The fact that you are the one initiating forum contact with me, perhaps??????
.

labeling labeling blah blah blah... keep on truckin Mr. carpetbagger. arrogance in there as well. my statement hold still.
Your statement holds because you are one of the many clueless kung fu-ists that post here. I am not labeling, I am just stating a fact!

persistant am I. I'm just trying to open your eyes to the bigger world of MA's. maybe some good judo or muay thai would help you to focus. :) trying to do my civic duty and help...lol of course some people can't be helped which you fall nicely into the catagory.
This forum is full of "kung fu clueless" meat heads who sooner or later recommend kickboxing or grappling arts to every one and their grandmothers...LOL...lol

then Mr. carpetbagger you would fall into this catagory...:)
YOu are just looking for "friends"...LOL

your sets and standards do not apply to me Mr. Carpetbagger. Speaking of clueless comments your full of them.
That only suggests that you do not comprehend discussions regarding authentic TCMA methodology, but don't worry as you are in the majority here. All you need to do is look at this as a form of perverse Democracy.;)

Yeah my wife would enjoy me picking up a bimbo...lol...
Hey, you don't have to tell her. Do you think I tell my wife every time I pick up a bimbo?:D

lets keep the insults between us Mr. Carpetbagger.
Hey, I did not insult your wife! You were the one who brought her up!

Besides, I am not insulting you when I say that you are clueless about authentic TCMA methodology, I am just being factual. You are taking it as an insult because you find the truth painful.

If your running out of things to put me down on I'm sure we can find something else. :)
And you do that with every post...LOL!

Hardwork108

12-03-2009, 09:53 PM

Part 2 (not part "dahhhhh"- LOL)

part dahhhh...

Ummm, after part 1 you usually get part 2. However, don't think about it too much as it might result in you forgetting your Judo and Muay Thai stuff...LOL

Like i've stated Simplisity is my master no other. :)
I have already gathered that.:D

I could inject a comment here but unlike you I'll keep this between us.
Actually you shouldn't even think about insulting my wife. It would not be right as she has not done a day's kung fu in her life so she is kind of clueless about the
subject matter of TCMAs. That means you have more in common with her than with me. LOL

on the contrary I get along with mostly everyone here...
That would be because mostly everyone here is as clueless as you regarding authentic TCMA methodologies. ;)

there are a few but they are in your 3-5% and we know what I think of your 3-5%.
You think nothing of course, because the level of TCMA understanding of the 3-5% is infinitely beyond anything that you can hope to comprehend. Yes, stick to your Judo and Muay Thai...LOL

Can't you get it Mr. Carpetbagger... DO I NEED TO PUT IT IN CAPS? "IT'S YOU, NOT EVERYONE ELSE"

So it is me who had the "honor" of waking you (and others such as yourself) up to the fact that you are clueless to the true essence of various TCMA methodologies. So shoot me. However, shooting the messenger will not change the facts!!!!!

I never knew we were discussing "deeper" aspects of CMA. I thought this thread was about grappling of which as I stated and you so eloquently highlighted I do have a background in.
You not seeing any deeper TCMA aspects in that video clip, further proves my assertion of how clueless you are regarding certain TCMA methodologies. LOL

Mr. Carpetbagger if you do not like my opinion you can put me on Ignore... it's this new internet invention.....lol :p
I am in a dilemma here because as much as I don't like your clueless opinions on one hand, on the other hand they bring me a lot of laughter, so at least for now I am not going to use my ignore option...

You will not change my opinon especially about you.
I don't want to change your opinion about me....LOL...Infact if people with your level of cluelessness (regarding TCMAs) started to like and agree with me then I would be really worried..Lol

Oh but you are... your putting your crap out there like it is the only MA's on this planet.. and it's for sale by you to any misfortunate person sorry enough to listen.
You personal issues and insecurities are overwhelming your judgment and your reading comprehension.

There are a lot of valid MAs out there but the subject matter that you are clueless about are the TCMAs. See it is all written in black and white. So read it a couple of times until it sinks in.

Oh i will along with all the other voodoo you posses...
I guess people like you will always see high level TCMA methodologies as "voodoo". LOL

again with the "telling me what to do" you have control issues Mr. Carpetbagger you should get looked at for that.
The only control issues that I have are with holding the contents of my bladder when I read your posts, LOL.

haha again if you do not like my opinions Mr. carpetbagger then put me on ignore. Like I said the best choice I ever made was filling those gaps.
Good. Now do carry on and fill in the gap between your ears...LOL

compensate but do not hold the essence of it. compensate is the key word... why compensate when you can have to true essense?
Because the way certain styles "compensate" will get you the necessary results. You would not know this because you are not a kung fu man. You are a cross trainer which is not bad thing on its own. Different strokes for different folks, I say. However, don't think that just because you have found the light in cross training then it is the only way, because then you become what you have been falsley accusing me of being.:rolleyes:

Cross train my carpetbagging friend ahh...
Now who is selling "crap" here?

I'm sure if you were smart enough a light bulb would appear above your head but i'll not hold you to things i know you are not capable of.
Don't tell me that you go around with a light bulb on top of your head? Is that how the people from the mental institution locate you?...LOL

haha you cannot read or something. never said to stop your TCMA, putting words in my mouth again.
What you don' t realize is the time and effort that it takes to study and familiarize one self with various and often "strange" TCMA practices. You also don't realize that cross training blindly to fill in "gaps" can many times negate the results that you are aiming to get through your kung fu training. You know none of this because, surprise, surprise, you are CLUELESS about even the slightly deeper aspects of TCMA methodology.

the beauty of it you can go to other MA's and still go to your chi fireball/dim mak classes.
And that statement EMPHASIZES how CLUELESS you are regarding the subject matter of the TCMAs.:rolleyes:

I prefer to be at the bottom of the ditch
Understandable, seeing that you don't have a choice......

at least i'm still connected to reality
You do mean the Meathead reality that prevents you from seeing anything beyond your nose? LOL

and not soaring at the peaks of arrogance and blindness.
You do realize that you have just described yourself, don't you? A Freudian slip perhaps? LOL

I'll stay right here and be happy with my crosstraining ways. :)
And I have said many times before to you and others here, if you are happy with what you do, then I am happy for you.:)

congrats in your high assesments lol.
Thank you and don't worry as you will one day get there too, perhaps in 5 or 6 lifetimes?

nah i'm down the river fishing for the next idiot like you who makes my day go by much faster.
And so you should as you should look for fellow idiots with whom you can pass the day "faster". ;)

drivel at best... good try again lets keep it between us.
you can bet on it Mr. carpetbagger....:D
Ok, between us, you really should find a woman. This will keep you from incorrect "internal" practice...lol,lol,lol,lol,

uki

12-04-2009, 02:43 AM

hey hardwork... just a suggestion - you need to work on one liner responses that pack just as much punch as these long multi-quotes here; something like a one hit wonder... ya know what i mean? :)

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 05:45 AM

And then you would have no friends in this world. LOL
have plenty of friends. don't need any more thanks for offer though. I know your lonely and all, they have phone numbers for that. :)

You would if you were intelligent.: :rolleyes: well since theres no intellegent people on this forum at all, from your assessment, I guess I'll have to setting for you. :)

Well, it won't be you for sure as I would require a higher IQ from any future pupil of mine then you would ever hope to possess...LOLno worries, i don't have the money for what you have to offer Mr. carpetbagger. And lets face it i've already seen it a thousand times at the 5 and dime down the street.

Yeah, I mix up the Meat heads with the knuckleheads.....LOL
yes judement of personality was never a strong point with you. :)

I would not refer to 3-5%, as a lot. Oh in the world there are many many more of you out there. I would just say 3-5% on the forum here. Like Fleas on a mangy dog you are to the MA's world :D

Only when I am reading posts from clueless "kung fu-ists" such as yourself with presumably "decades of experience". LOL
You probably see the dawn of the day and night fall as mysteries but you will figure them out in a couple of more decades. ah but to lose the passion of discovery as you have must be a dreadful disease. I'm sorry i do feel sorry for you now. :(

This is a kung fu thread in a kung fu forum. So was the forms thread in which you posted your memorable insights...LOL well you should have a meeting with the management around here to get rid of the rest of us. take down that mma/karate/judo/BJJ/meathead wrestling/etc. and there shall be no other art practiced here besides, what was it you said you did? Oh yeah you never did. anyways what ever Mr. Carpetbagger and his internal/chi/dim mak/ninjetts would propose. I really think you need to have that meeting. :)

Of course not as I know for sure that 95 to 97%, that is your fellow Mcdojo-ists, would agree with you. LOL AH the majority we all know they've never been right in the history of mankind. :)

The fact that you are the one initiating forum contact with me, perhaps?????? you are passing entertainment that's all Mr. Carpetbagger and I was hoping to maybe talk some sense into anyone you have contact with in hopes of saving there MA's lifestyle from doom.

Your statement holds because you are one of the many clueless kung fu-ists that post here. I am not labeling, I am just stating a fact!that majority thing again... well we shall have to execute them all.:D

.

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 05:46 AM

Part dahhh... because Mr. carpetbagger doesn't understand humor.

This forum is full of "kung fu clueless" meat heads who sooner or later recommend kickboxing or grappling arts to every one and their grandmothers...LOL...lolyou must be an outcast type. You label me as having no friends and i have more than i can stand half the time:) you do not like the majority and you are a "loner" except for your closet masters you work with and the other 3-5%. So my typical assesment would be outcast/standalone/argumentative/etc. So yeah i'm the one with psychotherapy issues. :D

Hey, you don't have to tell her. Do you think I tell my wife every time I pick up a bimbo? Oh she would know Mr. carpetbagger she would know they always do.

Hey, I did not insult your wife! You were the one who brought her up!

Besides, I am not insulting you when I say that you are clueless about authentic TCMA methodology, I am just being factual. You are taking it as an insult because you find the truth painful.
you insinuated mr capetbagger...AND THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE:D

And you do that with every post...LOL! I'm just being helpful to you Mr. carpetbagger. wouldn't want you to run outta material, because i know you would with your originality repeats every single time :p

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 06:00 AM

Ummm, after part 1 you usually get part 2. However, don't think about it too much as it might result in you forgetting your Judo and Muay Thai stuff...LOL
that joke went right under your feet and right over your head there Mr. Carpetbagger.

Actually you shouldn't even think about insulting my wife. It would not be right as she has not done a day's kung fu in her life so she is kind of clueless about the
subject matter of TCMAs. That means you have more in common with her than with me. LOLyou started with the personal assualt Mr. carpetbagger, but I held my slanderous comment back. Us meatheads know a little thing called restraint. guess they don't teach that in dim mak/teleportation classes in southern china.

You think nothing of course, because the level of TCMA understanding of the 3-5% is infinitely beyond anything that you can hope to comprehend. Yes, stick to your Judo and Muay Thai...LOL I will and be much happier and enlightened for it thanks.

So it is me who had the "honor" of waking you (and others such as yourself) up to the fact that you are clueless to the true essence of various TCMA methodologies. So shoot me. However, shooting the messenger will not change the facts!!!!! some dogs just don't want the help. :) I'm a better person for not knowing your McStyle of MA's.

You not seeing any deeper TCMA aspects in that video clip, further proves my assertion of how clueless you are regarding certain TCMA methodologies. LOL no i'm seeing a guy in pajama's doing incorrect apps for takedowns and not taking into consideration momentum and force.

I don't want to change your opinion about me....LOL...Infact if people with your level of cluelessness (regarding TCMAs) started to like and agree with me then I would be really worried..Lolwell that will never happen thank god... wheww......

You personal issues and insecurities are overwhelming your judgment and your reading comprehension.

There are a lot of valid MAs out there but the subject matter that you are clueless about are the TCMAs. See it is all written in black and white. So read it a couple of times until it sinks in.you made this personal Mr. carpetbagger with you condesending remakes and looking down upon everyone else here who studies another art or cross trains. arrogance and malcontent towards others who have differing opinons that's my issue Mr. carpetbagger and your selling of ideas that poison others minds. Those are my issues. I want nothing of your 3-5% just to warn the world of your purpose and help those under your oppreshion. (spell)

Good. Now do carry on and fill in the gap between your ears...LOLyour mindless words do not help fill anything.

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 06:15 AM

Because the way certain styles "compensate" will get you the necessary results. You would not know this because you are not a kung fu man. You are a cross trainer which is not bad thing on its own. Different strokes for different folks, I say. However, don't think that just because you have found the light in cross training then it is the only way, because then you become what you have been falsley accusing me of being.
there are many ways of doing things especially within many different arts. Maybe you should listen to your own advise here. ground game is not a strong suit of TCMA and most would agree with me on that. All i'm saying is if you want the best at that aspect go to the source.
Don't tell me that you go around with a light bulb on top of your head? Is that how the people from the mental institution locate you?...LOL
did you even read my statement? lol

What you don' t realize is the time and effort that it takes to study and familiarize one self with various and often "strange" TCMA practices. You also don't realize that cross training blindly to fill in "gaps" can many times negate the results that you are aiming to get through your kung fu training. You know none of this because, surprise, surprise, you are CLUELESS about even the slightly deeper aspects of TCMA methodology. and what you don't realize is that studying just one aspect will lead to methods that will hinder you more than help. "strange" is your word for what you do but i'll throw it in my list of memorable things you've said. I think you misunderstand me sometimes Mr. carpetbagger. I have no issues with TCMA none at all. I enjoy practicing some of the finer principals and enjoy discussion with many here on the matter.... My 'beef' is with your arrogant statements and condoning slander towards others. ;) who do different things.

Understandable, seeing that you don't have a choice......
not understandable... I would chose the opposite side of the moon from you. and I always have a choice Mr. carpetbagger and if you think i don't well that will be your downfall.

You do realize that you have just described yourself, don't you? A Freudian slip perhaps? LOL you really do need to be more original... i put good material out there and all you can do is this? sheeee...:(

Thank you and don't worry as you will one day get there too, perhaps in 5 or 6 lifetimes?ah but it's not the destination but the journey that matters. you'll understand that in what 5-6 lifetimes. ;)

Ok, between us, you really should find a woman. This will keep you from incorrect "internal" practice...lol,lol,lol,lol,
at least i'm not in the closet Su(king off the master. :)

sanjuro_ronin

12-04-2009, 06:31 AM

I would strongly suggest that you two ( Dragon and HW8) cut the personal insults and stop the hijacking of this thread with your personal little flame war.
Otherwise...
Take my advice.

Hardwork108

12-04-2009, 06:31 AM

hey hardwork... just a suggestion - you need to work on one liner responses that pack just as much punch as these long multi-quotes here; something like a one hit wonder... ya know what i mean? :)

It is so much more fun to tear this guy apart bit by bit....LOL

However, I know what you mean and I will take your suggestion once I get bored with Mr "all kung fu people should do Judo and Muay Thai"Dragonballs, LOL

He sees me as an "oppressor" in a world where millions of people are poisoned; have their hard earned money robbed by so called Democratic governments; starved to death and basically destroyed through wars and oppression.

Not an intelligent one, this fellow Dragonzbane...LOL

Lets see how this develops.:)

HW108

Hardwork108

12-04-2009, 06:51 AM

Dragonzbane, let's take Sanjuro's advice (Christ, I never thought I would ever say something like that in this lifetime, not in a TCMA thread anyway..LOL) and try to discuss the this thread. It is a kung fu one after all.

You believe what the sifu in the video clip shows is inutile? OR part inutile? I assume whatever you assumption, you will be basing it on more on your none TCMA experience than on your TCMA one? Discuss!

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 07:30 AM

It is so much more fun to tear this guy apart bit by bit....LOL

However, I know what you mean and I will take your suggestion once I get bored with Mr "all kung fu people should do Judo and Muay Thai"Dragonballs, LOL

He sees me as an "oppressor" in a world where millions of people are poisoned; have their hard earned money robbed by so called Democratic governments; starved to death and basically destroyed through wars and oppression.

Not an intelligent one, this fellow Dragonzbane...LOL

Lets see how this develops.

I will bow out as ronin wanted. or discuss topic material. My opinions of HW8 will maintain but i'll try to stay on topic.

You believe what the sifu in the video clip shows is inutile? OR part inutile? I assume whatever you assumption, you will be basing it on more on your none TCMA experience than on your TCMA one? Discuss!
I agree that in a none TCMA 'setting' that this teacher is showing improper usage of techniques that would get someone hurt or would not work as he is trying to show.

Frost

12-04-2009, 08:37 AM

I agree that in a none TCMA 'setting' that this teacher is showing improper usage of techniques that would get someone hurt or would not work as he is trying to show.

As a grappler I concur, which begs the question if they would not work as shown why is he bothering to show them, is he hiding the real techniques, or does he really think these things would work?

Hardwork108

12-04-2009, 08:42 AM

I will bow out as ronin wanted. or discuss topic material. My opinions of HW8 will maintain but i'll try to stay on topic.
:rolleyes:

Hey, I thought that you were the type that never bowed to a "master"...LOL
Never mind....LOL

I agree that in a none TCMA 'setting' that this teacher is showing improper usage of techniques that would get someone hurt or would not work as he is trying to show.
Are you implying that there is enough information provided in that video to guarantee that you would be able to beat that sifu in a fight?

If your answer is yes, then would you not say that you would be able to beat all TCMA masters on the face of this planet because by your logic, your ground fighting skills will give you the edge that you need?

Have you taken into account that other principles may be at work in what he demonstrated?

Can you identify such principles that may be at work in what he is showing?

I ask all the above questions so that you will think of the implications of just following the routine modernist philosophy of "cross training is best" no matter what!

sanjuro_ronin

12-04-2009, 08:56 AM

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 09:03 AM

first off... no fight is 100% guarantee win, no matter the opponent. You learn this from resistant opponents and different approaches.
what I"m stating about the video is that the applications he is showing are not proper for the results he is striving for.
what other principles are you hinting at Mr. carpetbagger?
the principles i'm talking about are plain. Balance/leverage/momentum.
If he's trying to show some other force then he's doing a pis$ poor job.

I ask all the above questions so that you will think of the implications of just following the routine modernist philosophy of "cross training is best" no matter what!
did i ever state cross training is the best? I don't think so. It's the best for me, and i think everyone should at least try different things before they bash away, i'm all for different strokes for different folks. I think you misunderstand me i'm not against you and TCMA I'm against how you state your case.
what about you stating that TCMA are the best? ahhh see... i put words in your mouth there...... it's not fun so don't put them in mine.

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 09:07 AM

What do you guys base this view on?
how he approaches the application. in actual application the take downs he is showing are not in force. picking up someones leg with no drive in any direction is a false appearance IMO. momentum must always be taken into consideration is basically what i'm saying and he is not taking it into consideration. The shot/leverage/momentum etc. these are basic in concepts he does not seem to be approaching.

but it's just a video and i will agree that maybe he could show different apps for these is we were in person and i presented the question. All i'm saying is that he is missing some key components when presenting his case. :)

sanjuro_ronin

12-04-2009, 09:17 AM

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 09:19 AM

from my own experience. little confused on your statement.
Like I said i've only watched the video and pointing out things. as I stated these are my opinions. :p

sanjuro_ronin

12-04-2009, 09:21 AM

from my own experience. little confused on your statement.
Like I said i've only watched the video and pointing out things. as I stated these are my opinions. :p

My point is that some people basis their critique of something on practical hands-on experience, like you, while others base their approval of something on what they have been told with NO BASIS for it to be correct other than heresay.

David Jamieson

12-04-2009, 09:21 AM

how he approaches the application. in actual application the take downs he is showing are not in force. picking up someones leg with no drive in any direction is a false appearance IMO. momentum must always be taken into consideration is basically what i'm saying and he is not taking it into consideration. The shot/leverage/momentum etc. these are basic in concepts he does not seem to be approaching.

but it's just a video and i will agree that maybe he could show different apps for these is we were in person and i presented the question. All i'm saying is that he is missing some key components when presenting his case. :)

I caught a leg with a fook sau a swung it up with a light push. Put the guy on his ass +plus hurt the tailbone and bumped the back of his head. I lept in for the G&P, but was called off because that's not allowed in a friendly sparring match. lol

anyway, an ankle pick or single grab doesn't have to be followed with a tackle push. You can put the main joint into any direction it's not supposed to go and get some success.

it's about the joints and how joints work.

think of the joints.

not those joints you potheads, the other joints.

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 09:27 AM

lol...
agree...

anyways what i'm stating is that yes you can pick a leg up and take down with it. The thing i'm trying to point out is that if you do not show momentum in play with technique then it's only half done. Maybe he should have done it with momentum or maybe he did do it after the camera was off. But for me to believe more realistically in something i like to see the technique in force "mod". You can use force without totally mauling someone... :)
I guess what i'm trying to convey is that most fights or most encounters would be with momentum and force involved i'm not saying the old man should run over there and closeline the other fellow but he should show his techniques with a resistant approach.

uki

12-04-2009, 02:01 PM

it's about the joints and how joints work.this gives one the best understanding of how to also make those joints stop working by breaking them. :D

Hardwork108

12-04-2009, 02:14 PM

first off... no fight is 100% guarantee win,
It is statetements like the one above that make me appreciate the fact that you have been "around the block" a few times.:D

no matter the opponent. You learn this from resistant opponents and different approaches.
And that one too. :D

what I"m stating about the video is that the applications he is showing are not proper for the results he is striving for.
You can make subjective judgments like the one above with most demonstration videos out there.

what other principles are you hinting at Mr. carpetbagger?

Ok, are you sitting down. Ready? OK then, I am hinting at TCMA principles just like I did here in my statement to Taai Gihk Yahn, in this very thread. If you are still conscious theN have a read:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=974103&postcount=69

I made all my relevant points there regarding this video clip.

the principles i'm talking about are plain. Balance/leverage/momentum.
If he's trying to show some other force then he's doing a pis$ poor job.
Why don't you just save us lot of time and hassle and just fly to China and beat him up? LOL

By the way, there are more principles in TCMAs then you seem to be aware of.;)

did i ever state cross training is the best? I don't think so. It's the best for me, and i think everyone should at least try different things before they bash away, i'm all for different strokes for different folks.

Let me see, didn't you make the following statement in this very thread:

Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76
persistant am I. I'm just trying to open your eyes to the bigger world of MA's. maybe some good judo or muay thai would help you to focus. trying to do my civic duty and help...lol of course some people can't be helped which you fall nicely into the catagory.

Why come to a KUNG FU FORUM and recommend traditionalist kung fu practitioner a course in Muay Thai and Judo?

That implies that not only do you think that cross training is good for you but it is good for others as well!

I think you misunderstand me i'm not against you and TCMA I'm against how you state your case.
And that is your problem not mine!

When I see a person with absolutely no experience in a given TCMA methology come out and say that it does not exist, as you did with a certain Internal Chow Gar methodology, then I am going to come out and tell him that he is CLUELESS!

If you don't appreciate honesty then that is your problem.

what about you stating that TCMA are the best? ahhh see... i put words in your mouth there...... it's not fun so don't put them in mine.

:confused:
What do you mean. I always say that the TCMAs are the best and I do so in a kung fu (TCMA) forum and NOT an MMA or a modern cross training one, see the difference?:D:cool:

Seriously, you should read the post that I wrote to Taai Gihk Yahn. It is a long post so I don't want to start repeat writing it because Knowing the attention span of some you guys, you will then make me repeat write it for the next two weeks.

That post is very relevant to the subject matter of this thread and takes the TCMA perspective rather than the modern MMA one. Did I just hear some of the forum warriors faint? LOL Naah, it must have been the neighbor's cat.:)

HW108

Hardwork108

12-04-2009, 02:24 PM

this gives one the best understanding of how to also make those joints stop working by breaking them. :D

Uki, you are just so vicious.:eek: :)

uki

12-04-2009, 03:04 PM

Uki, you are just so vicious.meh... i don't even swat flies... usually.

bawang

12-04-2009, 03:07 PM

first off... no fight is 100% guarantee win, no matter the opponent. You learn this from resistant opponents and different approaches.

WRONG
kimbo slice wins every fight 200% of the tiem

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 04:15 PM

HW8 I'm not going to get into another long drawn out list of things. I think we've done enough of that. We both agree we don't agree.

Why don't you just save us lot of time and hassle and just fly to China and beat him up? LOL why are you obsessed with me beating up an old man? I have nothing to prove to this guy, i'm only stating that he is showing techniques that are not 'fully' functional.

Let me see, didn't you make the following statement in this very thread:
and the statement does not say cross training is the 'best' not once. :confused:
i imply you should try other things thats' all does that mean it's the best? If you wanna draw this out again we can but i don't see the point. I'm stubborn to be sure but not totally for climbing the same hill hundreds of times.

this is a forum and I have the right to post just as you. Just because it's in the kung fu forum portion doesn't mean I cannot post because i'm bringing a MMA perspective to light. In the end I think all styles/systems/arts cross paths at some level. I might not have your 'perseption' of TCMA but I do have many other views and experiences from differing arts that follow many of the same paths as TCMA. And that's as nice as i can and will be to describe my feelings on the matter Mr. Carpetbagger :)
happy holidays;)

Dragonzbane76

12-04-2009, 04:17 PM

meh... i don't even swat flies... usually

haha usually SH!T does not swat back....:) It just lies there.

Hardwork108

12-04-2009, 07:38 PM

why are you obsessed with me beating up an old man? I have nothing to prove to this guy, i'm only stating that he is showing techniques that are not 'fully' functional.
I believe that you missed the point I was making (yet again)!

and the statement does not say cross training is the 'best' not once. :confused:
i imply you should try other things thats' all does that mean it's the best?
Many people do that here and that is fair enough. It is just that your repetitions made it look like you had an agenda. And suggesting that I should practice Judo and Muay Thai just sealed it for me...LOL

If you wanna draw this out again we can but i don't see the point. I'm stubborn to be sure but not totally for climbing the same hill hundreds of times.

Of course not. You are a cross trainer you need to find different hills to climb. LOL. Hey, that was just a joke.:)

this is a forum and I have the right to post just as you. Just because it's in the kung fu forum portion doesn't mean I cannot post because i'm bringing a MMA perspective to light.

The problem is that every one and their grandmothers bring in the MMA perspective in what are usually (but not always) TCMA discussions. However, even that is fair enough but I believe that you guys cross the line when you treat TCMA methodologies which you are unfamiliar with as mumbo jumbo. That was my problem with a few of you recently.

In the end I think all styles/systems/arts cross paths at some level. I might not have your 'perseption' of TCMA but I do have many other views and experiences from differing arts that follow many of the same paths as TCMA.
I believe that I am in agreement with you here. Yes, I am shocked too.:eek:

And that's as nice as i can and will be to describe my feelings on the matter

Well, it is good to come across MMA-ists who are in touch with their feelings.:)

Mr. Carpetbagger :)
happy holidays;)

Same to you.:D

HW8 I'm not going to get into another long drawn out list of things. I think we've done enough of that. We both agree we don't agree.
Mr Carpetbagger agrees with Mr Clueless on this one.:)

HW108