New Age Mantis Styles on the rise - your thoughts?

[mantis108]

Well...I just read an interview of David Carradine in the Nov. issue of BB mag. I am just dumb found. It is just me or is the new age mantis styles are really on the rise?

Now we have:

WuShu
Chi
9 Palms (David Carradine is selling this one)

So if my math is right than we have 6 Harmonies, 7 Stars, 8 Steps, 8 Extremes, 9 Palms and 10? 11? ... :D
Anyway, I lost count. (sorry guys can't help poking fun at ourselves) ;)

Can't really blame the guys on the main forum dissing Mantis at large.

Your thoughts?

Mantis108

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[EARTH DRAGON]

I would like to know what qualifications you need to invent your own style? what else could one add that masters of the past who devoted their entire life to the art never thought of!

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[djphrenzy]

No intention of starting a flame war here, but it's my opinion that creating a new effective fighting style is nearly immpossible in our culture. When a new system was formed in the past in china, it was usually created by someone who had mastered another system, and created the new system based on flaws found in the original systems combat effectiveness for them.

So in other words, new systems were formed on the battlefield...given our culture's downplay on violence, there's very little chance for people to test true combat effectiveness of any system, and therefore it would be hard to form a new system from a previous system.

Just my $.02

Later-

Steve "Phrenzy"
Hope to study Mantis
Once again "Sifu-less"
http://www.djphrenzy.com

[Kiasyd]

heh, that´s why krav maga is so effective... Used on battlefield. :)

-- Kiasyd

[Nutt'nhunny]

using select techniques which form the basics of kung fu. Whoop ti doo. When the red army ripped off hsing I, they were onto something good.

[mantis108]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BB:How is your kung fu training progressing?
Carradine: I've gotten into this extreme kung fu system called nine-palms praying mantis. Rob Moses and I have been teaching itat seminars. We just did one in New York, and there was a big turn out. At this particular seminar, we had schoolteachers, factory workers, tai chi instructor, ministers and a guy who was an exorcist; and everyone had a great time doing this new system.

BB:Tell us more about this new system.
Carradine: Each of the nine palms is an expression the gives people something they can relate to-more than saying, "It's an exercise." It's similar to the "wax on, wax off" stuff from the Karate Kid movie. Rather than teaching people kicking, punching and forms that are set, Rob Moses developed this whole program to get people to use their imagination while maintaining free but purposeful movement. The self-defense thing is still there, but it is more of a byproduct.

In the January 2002 issue of Black Belt, the nine-palms praying mantis system of kung fu will be explored in detail.[/quote]

I don't know if any of the NY MAist can verify this seminar or not. It would seem to be that this is going alone the line of Tae Bo. Cardio Mantis Expression ?!?! (What the HE!! is that?)

Well Earth Dragon, to create a system is not hard but to validate it is. Recently, many new age systems get in through the back door that is swung wide open by Tae Bo. You first claim it is a fitness expression and then when the time comes (support grow out of control), you then claim it is self defense effective. *sigh* That way you cash in twice. Man, I should be a MA business consultant. :D

The sad reality is the commercialization of Martial Arts. It is now a commodity.

Mantis108

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[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Wel, I just returned from China and had the opportunity to talk (through and interpreter) with an instructor at the University in Xian. He had to accept challenges and win proving himself worthy to teach. If you lose you don't open a school since nobody would want to be your student. I think something like that should be done here. I don't mean go and kick the sh*t out of new instructors. Just challenge them publicly to some friendly competition and make sure the results are well known.

I have nothing against David Carridine but I don't believe he knows enough to go around teaching other. He's just jumping on the Tae Bo bandwagon and making some money. At least Billy Blanks has some background.

[EARTH DRAGON]

just as bruce lee made up his own matial art and was called the greatest martial artist ever! I dont buy into that at all. he maybe the greatest martial art actor ever but his martial arts were not that good! what about yip man? what I mean is that people buy into the main stream when in fact the best masters are in the shadows and never wnat to be in the spolight! they are to humble and modest to and dont care that other people learn as long as they are happy! one great master I know owns a flower shop, he has not taught since he was younger and was a outstanding martial artist very chinese very quiet, but used to break coconuts with a palm strike.
asa for billy blanks he was born in erie PA and moved to buffalo and used to train were I did at the golden dragon society, master ting fong wong hungar style from hong kong, billy never made it to blak sash before he moved to LA so just to give you some back round he has only a little

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[nobody]

Bruce Lee was pretty **** good ;)

[draco]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BB:How is your kung fu training progressing?
Carradine: I've gotten into this extreme kung fu system called nine-palms praying mantis. Rob Moses and I have been teaching itat seminars. We just did one in New York, and there was a big turn out. At this particular seminar, we had schoolteachers, factory workers, tai chi instructor, ministers and a guy who was an exorcist; and everyone had a great time doing this new system.

I'm not sure I could explain this in proper words, but notice there are ministers and exorcist involved. This is a mind and focus thing, where one attacks another through thought and pure will power to manipulate another.

The thought of striking someone without striking them.

I'm not sure if I even written proper words for this but I believe this is what he's talking about.

[sultanpro]

"It's similar to the "wax on, wax off" stuff from the Karate Kid movie."
Nuff said
skard

Its not what goes in a man that defile's him, its what comes out.

[wisdom mind]

do you know the Kife crew?

big up yerself and burn one every time

[ShaolinMantis]

Perhaps I can shed some real light on this , since Rob Moses is my Sihing. He spoke to me several times about this training and over the years as he was developing it.

First some background on Rob Sihing. He has studied Northern Shaolin, 7 star Mantis, Lohan, some Taiji Mantis for some 25-30 yrs. He is Sifu Kam Yuen's Senior Practicing student.

SiHing did many of the scenes and stunt work for the last Kung Fu TV shows out of Canada. The Monks and Abbot from the Shaolin tour deveoped a great respect for him. Due to his down to earth manner and internal power which he demoed at their request being called upon at radom out of a crowd of watchers of their performance in Toronto Canada. Addtionally he was the Chief Instructor in LA for Kam Sifu's school.

He is a very humble & spiritual person, who would rather hurt himself before hurting another or cheat anyone. If anyone has any (real) questions about just what the real story is behind 9 palms mantis, which is the name given by Inside Kung Fu magazine, I will forward them to him.

He developed a way of trainging to help people new to the arts or having problems understanding energy and flow to better understand energy/chi and power and angles. This was to help in Mantis training or Shaolin or basicly whatever. Based on
Physics and transfer of power as well as imagination. It was not developed as a fighting style but a way to understand "your" fighting style "your " training.

He was/is not out to be a great grandmaster of anything. Most of the hype on this is media developed.

ShaolinMantis-I

[mantis108]

Interesting. Since I only read about the 9 Palms on BB Mag, which didn't disclose much, I don't think I am knowledgeable enough to comment on this system yet. My concern was basically seeing David Carradine in the limelight "selling" the stuff which may raise some eyebrows (if you know I mean), which it did. I hope that Mr. Carradine's involvement is really more of a supporting role and that the system is developed as you have outlined. BTW, I have no objection to new program or system that is design to address a certian needs for certain communities. Hope Sifu Moses enjoys every success.

Robert

P.S. There is also a WuXing Tanglang (5 Elements Mantis) :D

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[ShaolinMantis]

"Mr. Carradine's involvement is really more of a supporting role ".

Yes, this is the way it is suppose to be. David and Sihing developed a friendship from his yrs of working with him on the show and private training before hand when Kam Sifu was too busy to work with him any more. Rob Shing had been helping David to take on some appearance of knowing what he was doing. ( still a long ways to go by looking at his pictures in Kung Fu mag :-) David got an intereview with the magazine and told them this is how he was training and one thing leads to another...
As with most things any media gets involved with there is more to the story behind the scenes. Their job is to sell magazines, newspapers, Air space, radio space, whatever.
I have not met David Carridine, but from what I hear he has a good heart, though to a serious martial traditional martial artist his skills are a joke. However to John Doe Public he is Qwai Chang Cane the Shaolin Master. When selling things, it is all about marketing and who you know.

Respects

ShaolinMantis-I