The Detriments of Long Distance Running

[Three Harmonies]

Recently found an interesting article on the detriments of long distance running. Check it out. (http://threeharmonies.blogspot.com/2009/12/running-for-cardiogood-idea.html)

Cheers
JAB

[sanjuro_ronin]

Pros and cons to everything.
I have never been a fan of distance running, 15 min is more than enough for me.
Running has its practical advantages, we end up running lots of time in our lives, to do it well is a good idea.

[Frost]

I can't read the article linked at work but read your blog, no one likes running but I think everyone accepts the benefits of sustained aerobic work (of which running can be a part). Benefits such as lower working heart rates, more efficient use of oxygen within the muscles, better recovery between bouts of alactic bursts etc are of benefit to all combat sports. If you don't get it from LSD work you need to do something, be it skipping rope, long sustained circuits, low intensity sparring and pad work etc.

The benefits that running/lsd (and other forms of machine based aerobic activity have) over sparring pad work etc is that you can easily monitor your progress and heart rate, if you can run 1/2km longer at the same HR in 40 minutes than you could 2 weeks ago you are getting fitter. Such quantifiable feedback is harder when skipping, hitting the pads etc

[Oso]

Frost, it's basically the debate between LSD and HIIT.

[Frost]

Frost, it's basically the debate between LSD and HIIT.

oh right should have guessed lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

The issue is that it is not an either/or situation, BOTH should be done.

[Frost]

The issue is that it is not an either/or situation, BOTH should be done.

stop being sensible and keep these opinions to yourself otherwise you will put a lot of internet coaches out of business:D

[mawali]

Masters runners who keep up their running schedule have hearts of people 25-30 year old. A recent military study shows that close to ~75% of young adults are not fit for military service due to obesity and the sedentary society imperatives

Both LSD and HITT are good! I no longer run as much but my reason for LSD was that it built and manintained stamina (i.e. increased mitochondrial oxidative capacity of the leg/calf complex) while facilitating 'improved breathing" over time and duration of the run. That is how I incoprorated diaphragm / lower abdominal breathing into most of what I do today. Chest breathing (for me) reqired too much upper body activity which I did not need. It was too labourious, you would get fatigued faster and that ruins a good run.

When I first started I had to do it for my quarterly PFT but after a time you develop a pattern/process to make a thing more efficient. I only did speed work periodically since most of running was around 10-15 miles so I needed to develop the leg power hence LSD.

I used to reference Costill, a runner and quite a few of the Finnish physiology studies on exercise physiology (including Karvonnen's work) so it helped me to set up a schedule.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Heart rate can be "misleading", I recall when I was in "top shape", training over 3 hours a day, 6 days a week, competing in judo, boxing, MT and kyokushin, running every day, weight training, the works really ( ah the endurance of youth...) and my heart rate was always over 60, and typically in the 65-68 range, resting.
I remember I used to query my doctor ( he was a sports performance doctor) and he said that I had a naturally "high metabolisim".
The TCM doctor I went too used to say I had way too much Yang.
Both were right.

[Frost]

Heart rate can be "misleading", I recall when I was in "top shape", training over 3 hours a day, 6 days a week, competing in judo, boxing, MT and kyokushin, running every day, weight training, the works really ( ah the endurance of youth...) and my heart rate was always over 60, and typically in the 65-68 range, resting.
I remember I used to query my doctor ( he was a sports performance doctor) and he said that I had a naturally "high metabolisim".
The TCM doctor I went too used to say I had way too much Yang.
Both were right.

From what I understand at a very basic level, you can get better at conditioning one of 2 way you can work on producing more power aerobically, ie reduce your resting HR make the left ventricle bigger thus allowing you to produce more oxygen per heart beat etc, this is done through LSD work and aerobic intervals, you basically end up calling less and less on your lactic system

Or you can increase the amount of power you can produce and sustain aerobically by using methods that target the lactic system. Here you will have a higher resting HR, thicker walls around the heart (as it is much stronger) and be more explosive for longer periods

As you said though it is not an either or situation because intervals can be used to target either system. (This is a gross statement about conditioning and I know it is about much more than just lsd or HIIT, or aerobic or lactic but it does help explain why some guys with higher HR’s can still be very fit.)

[Oso]

The issue is that it is not an either/or situation, BOTH should be done.

yea, that's my take.

did an 18 mile hike last summer with some CF people. The only one's who could keep up were people that were also doing some sort of endurance training. I was actually surprised. But, I've always tried to make sure i felt capable of doing at least a 4mph pace w/ no load no matter what other shape i was in.

[Lucas]

i cant remember the guys name, but there is a gentleman who wrote a book regarding a tribe of natives he came in contact with in a remote region in Mexico. these people have records of men running 400 miles straight.

i saw an interview with him on, i think the daily show. it was interesting in the sense that these people have essentially been isolated for a very long time, until recent history.

the methods by which they live, and run, are pretty cool. part of their reasoning is the footwear, and the development of running on ground in whats simply a sandle/nearbarefoot or actually barefoot.

similar to many african tribes.

i wish i could remember his name or the book. can anyone help. i believe, from what was said in the interview, there is a correlation to the modern running footwear and long term detrimental effects of long distance runnng.

im guessing the point is to be that essentially the footwear is unatural, and over a long period of time, this un natural ness does take a toll. of course running on concrete in bare feet would be un natural as well. as such, running bear foot, or with footwear to mimic bare footedness, on a naturally occuring terrain is the best possible scenario for long distance running and long term effects.

[Drake]

I hate when people refer to people who run hundreds of miles into injury to justify ducking out of running a few miles a day. Multiple marathons can cause injury, but running 10 or less miles a day will not break down your system. There's a DISTINCT difference. I can run for 30-45 minutes a day and not have any problem.

[Oso]

yea, i've been introduced to 'POSE' running, or maybe it's P.O.S.E. or whatever...essentially it introduces the fact that nobody ran heel to toe until running shoes and that heel to toe is bad. I can see, and feel, the difference the times I manage to do it. I can't sustain it for much more than 100yds though, there is far less 'pushing' than 'pulling' by leaning forward at the ankles and falling forward as you pull your knees up while pulling your heels to your butt (figure 4 like) and essentially continually catching yourself as you move forward.

[Oso]

I hate when people refer to people who run hundreds of miles into injury to justify ducking out of running a few miles a day. Multiple marathons can cause injury, but running 10 or less miles a day will not break down your system. There's a DISTINCT difference. I can run for 30-45 minutes a day and not have any problem.

yea, but once people adopt a system of something they have to back it to the hilt and chose a side...martial arts is not the only realm where that is truth.

humans must generally polarize themselves in everything. i'm not sure why that is but it sure seems to be the norm.

[mawali]

i cant remember the guys name, but there is a gentleman who wrote a book regarding a tribe of natives he came in contact with in a remote region in Mexico. these people have records of men running 400 miles straight.

i saw an interview with him on, i think the daily show. it was interesting in the sense that these people have essentially been isolated for a very long time, until recent history.

the methods by which they live, and run, are pretty cool. part of their reasoning is the footwear, and the development of running on ground in whats simply a sandle/nearbarefoot or actually barefoot.

similar to many african tribes.

i wish i could remember his name or the book. can anyone help. i believe, from what was said in the interview, there is a correlation to the modern running footwear and long term detrimental effects of long distance runnng.

im guessing the point is to be that essentially the footwear is unatural, and over a long period of time, this un natural ness does take a toll. of course running on concrete in bare feet would be un natural as well. as such, running bear foot, or with footwear to mimic bare footedness, on a naturally occuring terrain is the best possible scenario for long distance running and long term effects.

Tarahumara of SW USA and Northern Mexico

[Lucas]

Tarahumara of SW USA and Northern Mexico

sweet thanks! ive been wanting to read his book since i saw that interview, but i immediately forgot his name lol