Foshan Wing Chun

[hulkout]

Does anyone have experience with both Yip Man style Wing Chun and Foshan Wing Chun? I have only ever known Yip Man lineage through Moy Yat and Sunny Tang who is my teacher. But I recently saw a DVD with a Foshan guy named Mai Yao Ming. There were things I've never seen before like punching to the side while in YJKYM stance. Also, shifting all the way to the other side 180 degrees. There seems to be much more movement with this style of Wing Chun and it seems really interesting. I wonder how well it could combine with Yip Man Wing Chun which seems tighter and less movement.

[Vajramusti]

I have been doing a Ip Man lineage (Augustine Fong) wing chun since 1976. There is lots of movement, footwork, and punching- including to the side (for development). I don't borrow those things and training routines from somewhere else.

joy chaudhuri

[Steeeve]

Here 4 of the san sik....u could find in Yuen kay san WC,cheung Bo Wc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI5ZTPL1Q0M

[hulkout]

That's a pretty cool form. I'm not sure if you can answer this or not. But when he's turning from his forward stance with rear punch into his YJKYM stance with his lead punch to the side, is he bringing his feet back to the pigeon toe position pointing inward or are his feet parallel to each other?

[Steeeve]

thats in a pigeon toes...Yjkym in the video his stance is a ittle bit sloppy:)

[Steeeve]

cheung bo san sik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfb-DctDfEQ

[hulkout]

I am still training with him. I started with him last year. Prior to him, I did Jeet Kune Do. I learned Wing Chun indirectly through that, but it's not the same. I learned quickly how sloppy the Wing Chun techniques are of a lot of JKD practitioners. And the ones who really are good are the ones who learned proper Wing Chun first. He's a really good guy. I just had a class with him last night and he gave me some good footwork drills to work on, which has always been a weakness for me. Are you a student of his as well or were you before?

[chusauli]

Learning different branches is not bad...you should go forth and learn as much as you can about WCK.

The traditional approach is for you to study and learn what your Sifu taught you, then go out and visit your uncles, grandmaster, grand uncles, cousins in the art, and then masters from other systems.

I have said many times, the old European guilds (patterned after the Chinese) had apprentices, journeymen, craftsmen, and craft masters. Its not much different to the Chinese approach of learning martial arts. But one must have a good basis, and absorbed the various teachings of your main teacher, otherwise the result you will have is a mish-mosh...

Chinese medicine doctors often studied specialties with other doctors to be more well rounded, and herbalists were known to collect and trade various formulas. But this can only be done when one is well rounded in basics.

Narrow mindedness of following only one sifu for a lifetime, not quite correct if you look at history...but things must be done in accord to family protocol and abilities. Leung Jan followed Leung Yee Tai, but also studied with Wong Wah Bo...

Just my opinion.

[kungfublow]

I am still training with him. I started with him last year. Prior to him, I did Jeet Kune Do. I learned Wing Chun indirectly through that, but it's not the same. I learned quickly how sloppy the Wing Chun techniques are of a lot of JKD practitioners. And the ones who really are good are the ones who learned proper Wing Chun first. He's a really good guy. I just had a class with him last night and he gave me some good footwork drills to work on, which has always been a weakness for me. Are you a student of his as well or were you before?

So would you say you are pretty happy at Sunny Tang? When I first started I saw him and my current sifu Sonny Lee. I decided to go with Sifu Lee but that was basically based on the fact that he knew tons of weapon forms as well as wing chun which is WSL. But I have heard mixed things about Sunny Tang. But that might just be from some people that just didn't like his teaching style. I tend to not place judgement based on other people's experience. I like to see for myself. By the way footwork is still a weakness for me and I've been doing this for 4 years. I'm just not a dancer!

[punchdrunk]

I thought Sonny Le learned vietnamese WIng Chun first, and then continued with Ho Kam Ming later? Or is that a different person?

[kungfublow]

I thought Sonny Le learned vietnamese WIng Chun first, and then continued with Ho Kam Ming later? Or is that a different person?

Wow did I have a brain ****! I don't know why I wrote WSL. You are totally correct. I have really enjoyed his teaching so far. He learned a ton of weapons forms as well from a different sifu while he was training Vietnamese Wing Chun. I can't for the life of me remember his name right now. But some of the forms he knows from him are amazing.

Man I can't believe I forgot my own sigung (sp?) I think I need to get more sleep.

[hulkout]

So would you say you are pretty happy at Sunny Tang? When I first started I saw him and my current sifu Sonny Lee. I decided to go with Sifu Lee but that was basically based on the fact that he knew tons of weapon forms as well as wing chun which is WSL. But I have heard mixed things about Sunny Tang. But that might just be from some people that just didn't like his teaching style. I tend to not place judgement based on other people's experience. I like to see for myself. By the way footwork is still a weakness for me and I've been doing this for 4 years. I'm just not a dancer!

Yes, I would say I'm pretty happy there. Believe me, I've seen my share of bad teachers and schools. Sunny Tang is not one of them. The absolute worst one (By the way, I don't give a crap about professionalism and respect in this case) in the Toronto area is Sifu Lee Chi Wai of Chung Wah Kung Fu. Yes, I said it, and any followers of his can kiss my ass if they don't like what I'm saying. He's a huge egomaniac who basically declared war on the other sifus in town. Apparently, some people answered his challenge but he backed down like a *****. It is true that you can't place judgement on other peoples' opinions, but in extreme cases when enough people back it up with cold hard facts, I think you can. In Sunny Tang's case, I know some people don't like his teaching style because they feel progress is too slow. It only seems that way because they haven't learned the material properly yet to advance. He won't teach you anything new unless you're pretty good at the existing material you've learned already. If you work hard, you'll advance at a decent pace. Most of the guys there don't practice enough outside of class. He'll watch everybody and he'll tap you on the shoulder to give you a new drill when he feels you're ready for it. The Sihings and instructors under him do most of the teaching and correcting of technique in class, but he's always been the one to show me new stuff.

[Vajramusti]

I thought Sonny Le learned vietnamese WIng Chun first, and then continued with Ho Kam Ming later? Or is that a different person?
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I have no idea of the skills of the gentleman in question, but I seriously doubt that he learned from Master Ho Kam Ming. Lots of name dropping happens (for promotional ends perhaps or error in communication).

joy chaudhuri

[Steeeve]

I remember Master Ho kam Ming .....4 years ago he give a seminar more a lecture here in Ottawa.....We have smoke a export A(green ) outside the gym......in the street.

thats was a nice day

[Vajramusti]

He is an old line kung fu teacher and not given to mass production.

joy chaudhuri

[kungfublow]

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I have no idea of the skills of the gentleman in question, but I seriously doubt that he learned from Master Ho Kam Ming. Lots of name dropping happens (for promotional ends perhaps or error in communication).

joy chaudhuri

Well all I can tell you is what he has told me. I have no way to verify if it's true or not I wasn' there. But by the way he describes his training with HKM it does sound like it was very hard to get to see him. Then when he was training there were not many people training with him at the time. So it does not sound like a mass production type of thing. If I have it right all the training was done out of his home. I understand that alot of people name drop to make them sound better but in this case I think he's telling the truth. I could be wrong though.

[Vajramusti]

Well all I can tell you is what he has told me. I have no way to verify if it's true or not I wasn' there. But by the way he describes his training with HKM it does sound like it was very hard to get to see him. Then when he was training there were not many people training with him at the time. So it does not sound like a mass production type of thing. If I have it right all the training was done out of his home. I understand that alot of people name drop to make them sound better but in this case I think he's telling the truth. I could be wrong though.
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What people tell and what happens or happened can often be two different things.Getting a few lessons from someone else other than HKM is not the same as learning from HKM.
I think that I know what I am talking about. HKM is my sigung.
I make no comment on the VN gentleman's skills or on the instruction that you receive. If you are receiving instruction that satisfies you-that is ok.
I commented only on the inaccuracy of the name dropping re HKM..
Let's just let it pass.

joy chaudhuri

[kungfublow]

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What people tell and what happens or happened can often be two different things.Getting a few lessons from someone else other than HKM is not the same as learning from HKM.
I think that I know what I am talking about. HKM is my sigung.
I make no comment on the VN gentleman's skills or on the instruction that you receive. If you are receiving instruction that satisfies you-that is ok.
I commented only on the inaccuracy of the name dropping re HKM..
Let's just let it pass.

joy chaudhuri


Fair enough Joy! I understand where you are coming from. I am very new to wing chun and have only been training for 3 years. To be honest this is my first experience with any martial art. I have no idea if what he is telling me is true. I have no real way to verify it. I respect your opinion as I find your posts to be very intelligent and dead on. Is there something I could ask him that only a true student of HKM would know? That way I could verify what he is saying. It does bug me a bit that he might be lying about this. Maybe you can help me get to the truth.

[Vajramusti]

Fair enough Joy! I understand where you are coming from. I am very new to wing chun and have only been training for 3 years. To be honest this is my first experience with any martial art. I have no idea if what he is telling me is true. I have no real way to verify it. I respect your opinion as I find your posts to be very intelligent and dead on. Is there something I could ask him that only a true student of HKM would know? That way I could verify what he is saying. It does bug me a bit that he might be lying about this. Maybe you can help me get to the truth.
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He did not learn from Ho Kam Ming and I don't think that he learned WSL WC either. Imitating motions
of skilled sifus do not result in transference of the same skills.Enough said!I give you the bottom line truth as I see it. I have been to Toronto several times and alsi in HK among other places related to wing chun. I don't care to get into the mud on this. Cleaning the Augean stables of lineage claims in wing chun is more than a Herculean task and not worth it- at least to me. You have to make your own judgments.I shared mine.
I sometimes correct mis-impressions about my sifu and my sigung, as I see them- but I do NOT speak for them.

joy chaudhuri

[wtxs]

Fair enough Joy! I understand where you are coming from. I am very new to wing chun and have only been training for 3 years. To be honest this is my first experience with any martial art. I have no idea if what he is telling me is true. I have no real way to verify it. I respect your opinion as I find your posts to be very intelligent and dead on. Is there something I could ask him that only a true student of HKM would know? That way I could verify what he is saying. It does bug me a bit that he might be lying about this. Maybe you can help me get to the truth.

There are reasons and motives for everything that we do, your teacher is the only one with the truth.;) Read between the lines as I've, Joy has no wish to join the politic flaming circus, that's how I would respect his opinion. All it should matter is that what you have learn and can be use effectively.:D

[Steeeve]

THE TRUTH IS IN EVERYTHING.....search for it you find it:)I think Krishnamurdi said that
or maybe Bruce Lee:D
well my english is more and more good

[kungfublow]

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He did not learn from Ho Kam Ming and I don't think that he learned WSL WC either. Imitating motions
of skilled sifus do not result in transference of the same skills.Enough said!I give you the bottom line truth as I see it. I have been to Toronto several times and alsi in HK among other places related to wing chun. I don't care to get into the mud on this. Cleaning the Augean stables of lineage claims in wing chun is more than a Herculean task and not worth it- at least to me. You have to make your own judgments.I shared mine.
I sometimes correct mis-impressions about my sifu and my sigung, as I see them- but I do NOT speak for them.

joy chaudhuri

Well I know that he did not learn form WSL. That was my own mistake in posting that he did. I will respect your wishes and drop this. Although I feel that the training I have received so far has been great but this new development taints it a little. At least in my opinion. I will search for the truth and if I do find it I will let you know. Although you seem pretty convienced that he did not train HKM I doubt that any info that I bring you will change your mind. Thanks for showing me that this is a possiblity as I never thought to question my sifu before.

[Steeeve]

maybe he s a new bruce lee:D.....maybe hes theory and principle of WC is better of the old one ....maybe he could invent the wheel...who know