The real problem with Wing Chun, and the solütion

[anerlich]

Long and heartrending are the lamentations about the sorry state and fractured nature of Wing Chun. The reasons given are many, but the solutions proposed few and sorry.

Wing Chun needs a tougher image. The pathetic adherence to antedeluvian cultural associations and wishy-washy attempts to make it into some new age pussified version of the already pussified internal martial arts and Buddhist traditions have got us nowhere. The New Age is over, and as The Clash predicted, nobody escaped, especially Wing Chun.

A tougher image. We need a quantum leap into gnarliness and sheer psychic terror. We need ...

The heavy metal umlaut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_umlaut). What got Motörhead charging like a nitro-injected road missile.

Wing Chün. Yes, Wing Chün.

As David St. Hubbins of Spinal Tap said. "It's like a pair of eyes. You're looking at the umlaut, and it's looking at you."

You want gravitas? Depth? Try the Abyss. As Nietsche said. "Gaze into the Abyss for long enough, the Abyss gazes back at you." The Abyss. Depth up to here (or actually, down to There). Same thing with the umlaut. Two eyes, wormholes into the depths of the Abyss. Get some of THAT Godless rocket fuel into your Wing Chün and scare the c r a p out of those keyboard warriors.

Nietsche spoiled that by prefacing it with "Take care when fighting monsters, that you do not become a monster." Screw Nietsche. You can bet he never won a challenge match or fought MMA. Wing Chün is screaming out like a dam ned soul for a few real monsters.

I sort of get the WT guys were trying to do when they changed to Wing Tsun, but they missed the point totally. In Germany, of all places, where Nietsche and the two eyes of the umlaut were staring them in the face. A HUGE opportunity missed. The Gracies would have run from Emin had he used the umlaut, that I can guarantee. Unless the Gracies started doing Jiü Jitsu, that is (only one umlaut; two shows a certain desperation).

The pain you endure to include the umlaut in your KFO posts will make you stronger.

Are you going to remain a loser, or will you start practising Wing Chün instead?

Happy Holidays. :D

Note to fanboys: Yes, I know Spinal Tap is properly spelt with no dot on the i and an umlaut over the n. If you can work out how to do that inside a KFO post, your HTML-fu is stronger than mine, and I will duly grovel at your cyberfeet for the chance to learn from the master.

[Wilson]

Fantastic!

Patches may help too....

[t_niehoff]

Excellent, Andrew!

But the REAL problem with WCK is that many of its practitioners have fairies tattooed on their asses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WidsgIt3lfw

Merry Christmas! Happy Hannakah! Enjoyable Kwanza! Serenity NOW!!!!

[Ultimatewingchun]

You can always count on Andrew for several gem thread-starters every year, and this is clearly his latest and greatest !!!

Merry Christmas...and for me personally - it's Wagner's PARSIVAL that moves mountains within the Germanic traditions.

But the question is: Did Parsival ever use The Centerline Punch during his conquests? :cool:

[mooyingmantis]

Bah!!!
The problem with WC is that Praying Mantis Kung Fu stole its mojo!

BWAHAHAHA!
Richard

[Wu Wei Wu]

Wing Chun should be about fighting.

Discussions about Wing Chun should be about fighting.

The practise of Wing Chun should involve an almost exclusive emphasis on fighting (forms and chi sao should be used as points of reference only).

The Wing Chun fighter should be encouraged to cross-train for the sake of being a complete fighter.

Anything even vaguely resembling esoterica should be discouraged.

All Wing Chun men should be forced to watch Mighty Boosh and listen to Dubstep.

Suki

[Steeeve]

Hope the force be with you:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

If there is one problem with WC it has nothing to do with the system per say but what some have made of it.
An isolated, near sighted and overly specialized system that is at home "sticking hands" instead of "talking with them".
The problem of WC is that its practioners do not fight outside of its closed circles and as such, while they are adapt at fighting "themselves" they don't have the answer to fighting "others".
The exceptions being those that do fight "others", but they are indeed the exception when they should be the rule.

[Wayfaring]

Anerlich puts the ü in Wing Chün !!!!! And that post puts the "me" in "awesome"!!!

[kfson]

You want gravitas? Depth? Try the Abyss. As Nietsche said. "Gaze into the Abyss for long enough, the Abyss gazes back at you." The Abyss. Depth up to here (or actually, down to There). Same thing with the umlaut. Two eyes, wormholes into the depths of the Abyss. Get some of THAT Godless rocket fuel into your Wing Chün and scare the c r a p out of those keyboard warriors.

Nietsche spoiled that by prefacing it with "Take care when fighting monsters, that you do not become a monster." Screw Nietsche. You can bet he never won a challenge match or fought MMA. Wing Chün is screaming out like a dam ned soul for a few real monsters.



Later philosophers who overcame Nietsche, said "You are what you conceal".
Later Philosophers who overcame those, laughed along with Nietsche's patients in the sanitarium.

[wtxs]

If there is one problem with WC it has nothing to do with the system per say but what some have made of it.
An isolated, near sighted and overly specialized system that is at home "sticking hands" instead of "talking with them".
The problem of WC is that its practioners do not fight outside of its closed circles and as such, while they are adapt at fighting "themselves" they don't have the answer to fighting "others".
The exceptions being those that do fight "others", but they are indeed the exception when they should be the rule.


To added insult to injury, some are proclaimed to be teaching real WC - what ever the hell that meant, some are withholding the "secrect" techniques. :rolleyes: Granted some teach as an means to make an living, that practice is fraud and unethical, and the worst is the ones claims Sifu/Master status without true qualifications to take people's hard earned money. To the many exceptions out there, I salute you! Keep on giving your students all you have.

[kfson]

To added insult to injury, some are proclaimed to be teaching real WC - what ever the hell that meant, some are withholding the "secrect" techniques. :rolleyes: Granted some teach as an means to make an living, that practice is fraud and unethical, and the worst is the ones claims Sifu/Master status without true qualifications to take people's hard earned money. To the many exceptions out there, I salute you! Keep on giving your students all you have.

Can you give us a lineage or family of WC you prefer or recommend without naming others.

[anerlich]

Can you give us a lineage or family of WC you prefer or recommend without naming others.

THe first two letters of his screen name might be a clue ...

[wtxs]

THe first two letters of his screen name might be a clue ...

Actually wt is short for west texas, letters of the company which I work for. My perferred lineage is the one I can get my hands on, learning is everything that matters. WC has an root, all branch and leafs spring from there.

[kfson]

Actually wt is short for west texas, letters of the company which I work for. My perferred lineage is the one I can get my hands on, learning is everything that matters. WC has an root, all branch and leafs spring from there.

Are you high plains or trans Pecos?

[anerlich]

Actually wt is short for west texas,

So I was right! It was a clue!

[wtxs]

So I was right! It was a clue!

You're da man! Can't be incognito no mo'.

[Ali. R]

The way it presents itself is not aggressive or demanding, so it is the slave to the common mind (only supplemental)…

But yet, it is full of grace when pressured and it can yield its way through difficult paths, so it is the master to the scholar (never ending)…

Serve wing chun (mind, body, and sprit) as a scholar within the system, and she will embrace you.

Most masters do not reward a lazy servant.


Ali Rahim.

[wtxs]

Are you high plains or trans Pecos?

Central Texas, where would you be?

[kfson]

Central Texas, where would you be?

DFW (must be 10 characters to post)

[wtxs]

DFW (must be 10 characters to post)

You can tell by # of post that I'm new on the WC forum, not sure how to input contact info or look for it. I'm about 250 miles sw from you, did you guys get dumped on by that snow storm. Happy holidays.

[Phil Redmond]

Post #7 here: http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55982
is the major part of the problem.
Dang Andrew, you're pretty good wordsmith for a WC "jock" :)

[LoneTiger108]

Long and heartrending are the lamentations about the sorry state and fractured nature of Wing Chun. The reasons given are many, but the solutions proposed few and sorry.

Wing Chun needs a tougher image. The pathetic adherence to antedeluvian cultural associations and wishy-washy attempts to make it into some new age pussified version of the already pussified internal martial arts and Buddhist traditions have got us nowhere. The New Age is over, and as The Clash predicted, nobody escaped, especially Wing Chun.

Some fair points are mentioned but still no solution other than violence! :mad:

Is that really all you want your art to be? Playing 'fisticuffs' with people of less skill than yourself to make you feel superior?

I can understand why people have moved away from the traditions as I for one can see the craziness involved in following a 'Master' or feeling that I am a 'Disciple', but I have never felt the need to punch someones face for me to believe in what I am training actually works!?

What's wrong with Wing Chun??

Nothing.

It's only the practitioners leading the flock that have their own issues and will let down future generations. And if you are led by the flock, which in most 'forum' cases looks to be true (and in some Sifu cases too), then we are all in real trouble!

Question: Do you teach the student what you know or what they 'want' to learn?

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Higher meaning aside...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90guNZ_QhjU&feature=related

I just came across this old video. I find it fascinating, because to me it reveals so much of what can go wrong and what can go right about Wing Chun training. I've seen and felt this same phenomenon from both sides of the equation.

My observations:

The Thai fighter initially seems reserved compared to the Wing Chun fighter, who shows a lot of crowding agression... but he doesn't show much ring control.

The first few clashes seem to give the Wing Chun guy the advantage over the Thai, who seems uncertain about what the WC guy is going to do.

A few instants later, it's all over really. The Thai suddenly realizes many things: we can see that he begins stalking the WC guy and treating him with utter contempt.

Not much later, the WC guy visibly begins to gas. In his fatigue he manages to pull off a straight blast and a nice low deflection before getting hammered. He takes more of the Thai's hits than he should, but takes them better than is to be expected.

What things do you think the Thai realizes? What do you yourself see that is good and bad w/ the Wing Chun guy's performance and training?

[goju]

so what youre saying is we need to start a wing chun biker gang!:D

[anerlich]

Dang Andrew, you're pretty good wordsmith for a WC "jock"

Thank you, sir :cool:

[Wayfaring]

What things do you think the Thai realizes? What do you yourself see that is good and bad w/ the Wing Chun guy's performance and training?

I think it became apparant that the WC guy didn't have any training to protect against leg kicks, that he didn't have the movement necessary to dictate range or circle away from anything, and that all his attacks were linear forward and back.

The MT guy probably has had a few fights. Those guys start fighting as teenagers and retire at mid twenties with 100+ fights. He got sloppy with hands down and his approaches - showboating, and got caught once for it. He played with the WC guy, softened him up with a pretty good leg kick display, played the MT clinch for a bit briefly, then when his opponent was worn down finished him.

Good and bad:

Good - WC guy had good classic wc structure with inner and outer hands, good centerline presence.

Bad - conditioning, no lateral movement, no leg kick defense, no clinch defense, no head movement to avoid punches.