cellular memory

[uki]

i found this to be a highly enlightening article... please enjoy. :)

Legend has it that about 2,500 years ago, during China’s Warring State Period, two men went to see a great doctor by the name of Bian Que. Bian cured their sickness very quickly but discovered that they had another problem that had been growing more serious over time. Bian said that they would both get well if they exchanged their hearts, and they agreed to let Bian perform the surgery.

Bian had the two men drink some anesthetics and they lost consciousness for three days, during which Bian opened their chests, exchanged their hearts, and applied medicine. When they regained consciousness, they had already recovered and were as well as before.

But something was wrong: When they returned home, they were both baffled because their wives couldn’t recognize them. It turned out that they had both gone to the other person's home and thought that the other person’s wife was their wife.

It seems inconceivable that such a surgery could have been performed 2,500 years ago, but this story is unbelievably similar to the situation observed in some modern heart transplant cases.

The U.K.’s Daily Mail reported that, after a heart transplant, Sonny Graham of Georgia fell in love with his donor’s wife and married her. Twelve years after their marriage, he committed suicide the same way his donor did.

In another Daily Mail report, a man named William Sheridan received a heart from an artist who died in a car accident, and suddenly he was able to produce beautiful drawings of wildlife and landscapes.

Claire Sylvia, the recipient of a heart and a lung in 1988, wrote in her book A Change of Heart: A Memoir that after the transplant she started to like beer, fried chicken, and green pepper—all of which she didn’t like before but her donor, an 18-year-old boy, liked.

She had a dream in which she kissed a boy she thought to be named Tim L., and inhaled him into her during the kissing. She later found that Tim L. was the name of her donor. She wondered if it was because one of the doctors mentioned the name during her surgery, but was told that the doctors did not know the name of the donor.

In a paper published in the Journal of Near-Death Studies, Dr. Paul Pearsall of the University of Hawaii and Dr. Gary Schwartz and Dr. Linda Russek of the University of Arizona discussed 10 cases of heart or heart-lung transplants in which the recipients were reported to have “changes in food, music, art, sexual, recreational, and career preferences, as well as specific instances of perceptions of names and sensory experiences related to the donors.”

In one of the cases that they described, the donor was an African American, so the recipient thought the donor would like rap music and therefore didn’t think the transplant was the cause of his new preference for classical music. However, it was found that the donor was a violin player and loved classical music.

This case suggests that changes in organ recipients’ preferences occur without the recipients anticipating them. Thus these cases are unlike the placebo effect, in which patients’ health conditions change in the direction of their expectations.

In addition, the researchers pointed out that like the above recipients, there might be other recipients who dismiss the idea that they adopted their donors’ preferences because of their expectations of the donors, so the number of organ transplant recipients who experienced a personality change similar to that of their donors might be underrepresented.

Pearsall, Schwartz, and Russek concluded that it is unlikely these cases happened out of coincidence, and hypothesized that it is because of cellular memory, meaning that memories and preferences can be stored in cells.

However, it is currently unknown whether this form of memory exists.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/24934/

[sanjuro_ronin]

You do know that many legends are written "after the facts", right?
Cellular memory is something the science is doing quite a bit of study on, but anecdotes and stories from what never took place 2500 years ago are irrelevant to here and now.

The story about the "heart transplant" from the waring states period is so full of holes it could only have been made up by someone with no medical or biological background.

[uki]

You do know that many legends are written "after the facts", right?as is mythology. :)


Cellular memory is something the science is doing quite a bit of study on, but anecdotes and stories from what never took place 2500 years ago are irrelevant to here and now.irrelevant only from a limited angle... according to chinese "legend", 2500 years ago, something inspired somebody to write something down that is being researched TODAY.


The story about the "heart transplant" from the waring states period is so full of holes it could only have been made up by someone with no medical or biological background.then of course it's always safe to assume that you or i weren't alive back then so purely anything regarding what we believe about history is pure speculation anyways... here a 2500 year old manuscript tells a story of a medical phenomenom that apparently has intrigued the medical community for the last 2500 years or so and is still being researched - ironic considering that research tends to point to an understanding seemingly written 2500 years ago. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

what 2500 year old manuscript are you referring too?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The records of the Grand Historian ? by Sima Qian ?


Do you have any idea what it takes to perform open heart surgery? much less and heart transplant?
Dude...

[uki]

what 2500 year old manuscript are you referring too?actually i am not... i got lost in mental translation between legend and present day... oops. :p


Do you have any idea what it takes to perform open heart surgery? much less and heart transplant?who is to say that these procedures were not possible by select individuals of the past?? what makes you so sure that history is as it is marketted to us to believe?? those pyramids are pretty clever, almost as if laser beams cut them... sumerian "legends" speak of the annunaki "gods" mixing blood and semen in a petri-dish to create mankind - sounds alot like genetic engineering/test tube baby kinda stuff. modern man speaks as if he lived in the past and has understood the high civilizations of our planets ancient history - they say that history has the uncanny knack of repeating itself... i wonder why exactly they tend to say that?? i'll tell you why, because there is nothing new under the sun. :)

[kfson]

You do know that many legends are written "after the facts", right?
Cellular memory is something the science is doing quite a bit of study on, but anecdotes and stories from what never took place 2500 years ago are irrelevant to here and now.

The story about the "heart transplant" from the waring states period is so full of holes it could only have been made up by someone with no medical or biological background.

It may not have been the "physical" heart that was transplanted.

The "thinking" of the mind can be transplanted.

[sanjuro_ronin]

actually i am not... i got lost in mental translation between legend and present day... oops. :p

who is to say that these procedures were not possible by select individuals of the past?? what makes you so sure that history is as it is marketted to us to believe?? those pyramids are pretty clever, almost as if laser beams cut them... sumerian "legends" speak of the annunaki "gods" mixing blood and semen in a petri-dish to create mankind - sounds alot like genetic engineering/test tube baby kinda stuff. modern man speaks as if he lived in the past and has understood the high civilizations of our planets ancient history - they say that history has the uncanny knack of repeating itself... i wonder why exactly they tend to say that?? i'll tell you why, because there is nothing new under the sun. :)

We all choose to see what what choose to see.

[GLW]

Consider the source... The epoch times - : from Wikipedia :

The Epoch Times (traditional Chinese: 大紀元; simplified Chinese: 大纪元; pinyin: Dàjìyuán) is a multi-language, international newspaper, originally published in Chinese. The paper has been in publication since May 2000. It was founded by practitioners of the Falun Gong spiritual discipline, after the government of the People's Republic of China banned the movement in 1999.[1][2]

Its stated focus is coverage of China and human rights issues, but much of its content is general-interest.[3][4][5] The newspaper is consistently critical of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and policies of the Chinese government. In 2004, the newspaper published the "Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party", a full-blown attack on China's ruling regime. The newspaper lends abundant coverage to Falun Gong-related causes, and is also sympathetic to other forces opposed to the Chinese government, including dissidents, activists, and supporters of the Tibetan government-in-exile. The Epoch Times Website also hosts a "CCP Renunciations" service, encouraging people to "erase the beastly brand" and publicly quit the Communist Party of China and related organizations. The Chinese government blocks those in mainland China from accessing the Epoch Times website.[6]

Headquartered in New York City, the newspaper has local bureaux and a network of local reporters throughout the world. It is sold and also distributed free-of-charge in roughly 30 countries worldwide, and maintains editions in English, Chinese, nine other languages in print, and 17 on the web.


So, this ranks right up there with their stories about space aliens and how perfect the ancients of the past were.

Be sure you put on your hip waders before reading any of their news.

[kfson]

Consider the source... the Falun Gong spiritual discipline.

Are they the Chinese version of Scientologists (pardon to all those of that flavor, here).

[uki]

Consider the source... The epoch times - : from Wikipedia :the irony. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

the irony. :)

Wikipedia WITHOUT source notes (footnotes) can be a real pain, that is very true.
Anyone ever using Wiki should make sure that what is being stated has a basis.

[uki]

Wikipedia WITHOUT source notes (footnotes) can be a real pain, that is very true.
Anyone ever using Wiki should make sure that what is being stated has a basis.you see the arguement goes both ways... so called "accepted" sources discredit other "non-accepted" sources and vice versa, atleast now everyone can decide for themselves by doing their own research into which angle of perception they wish to see things thru. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

you see the arguement goes both ways... so called "accepted" sources discredit other "non-accepted" sources and vice versa, atleast now everyone can decide for themselves by doing their own research into which angle of perception they wish to see things thru. :)

Multiple sources have always been the way to go, wiki can be a good starting point, but that is all it is, though some articles can be very complete.

[kfson]

Can anyone ever be certain of the sources?

[GLW]

I merely used the Wikipedia reference because it simply stated the fact that Epoch Times is a 'News' arm of the Falun Gong people.

I could have listed or quoted any number of sources...it is simply that the wikipedia entry was - in this case - basically factual and the most succinct I found in a 30 second google.

Backwhen there were all of the Falu Dafa protests, there were tons of articles that were being bandied about and when you traced them down, the all went back to the single source, Epoch Times.

After reading the Falun Gong book, it became pretty clear to me that Li Hongzhi was/is :

Crazy
has racial issues
has sexual issues (very ****phobic)
Believes in space aliens
thinks he is the only one with the true method of internal enlightenment

and so on.

Epoch Times is much the same. They mix in one or two reasonable stories with a bunch of crazy cr@p. The seem to generate a kinder gentler wacko than say the Moonies of Sun Myung Moon.

So...buy into this if you wish...but if you do, can I sell you a bridge in Brooklyn too?

[uki]

I merely used the Wikipedia reference because it simply stated the fact that Epoch Times is a 'News' arm of the Falun Gong people. no different than any other media news arm of any other organization...

Backwhen there were all of the Falu Dafa protests, there were tons of articles that were being bandied about and when you traced them down, the all went back to the single source, Epoch Times.there are tons of articles from the wall street journal too...


After reading the Falun Gong book, it became pretty clear to me that Li Hongzhi was/is :

Crazy
has racial issues
has sexual issues (very ****phobic)
Believes in space aliens
thinks he is the only one with the true method of internal enlightenment
and how do these perceptions make falun gong any less beneficial?? as long as their are different races, there will be issues, ****sexuality goes against the principles of nature in the sense of the act itself does not create life, there are in fact "space aliens" - they have been here way longer than us and have manipulated mankind for thousands of years, and i everyon e has to truly discover their own path to enlightenment... they say that those of sincere presence are percieved as being arrogant.

Epoch Times is much the same. They mix in one or two reasonable stories with a bunch of crazy cr@p. The seem to generate a kinder gentler wacko than say the Moonies of Sun Myung Moon.the same can be said about any american new media outlet aswell... all are half-truths and lies perpetuated to keep the people in a constant state of fear and mindlessness. :)


So...buy into this if you wish...but if you do, can I sell you a bridge in Brooklyn too?if you buy into the so-called "accepted" mainstream news sources, you have wasted your time and money.

[GLW]

from your post, Uki I can infer that :

You are either a Falun Gong follower - in which case, be a bit honest and state up front that you are. You will get a lot of "Honest" responses to being in with them.

You have never read Li Hingzhi's book or looked into what he is about.

(for example, the aspect that the two Falun gong folks working under him were accused and later found guilty of using their position with Falun Gong to have sex with under age girls who joined the Falun Gong groups.)

Have taken the western propaganda about what Falun Gong is about (granted the PRCs attitude IS propaganda as well - but, the reasons they fell on the bad side of the PRC was that their Falun Gong folks would target people like police, city officials, and low level CCCP members for conversion to the group. The CCCP became worried that such tactics could indicate political aspirations and began to outlaw it. Then, the much talked about instance of the Falun Gong demonstration attended by over 10,000 in Beijing...the group applied for a permit from the government...were denied, then had the event anyway. Were you to do the same thing in the US, there would have been arrests and a possible riot. In China, they took down the names and pictures of the leaders...let the event play out...and then arrested the leaders later. Same result that would have happened in the US...except that the leaders did prison time instead of having to go broke in legal fees and eventually having the case dismissed... oh...unless you talk about the Chicago 7..

You could be simply a contrarian...and take the opposite position on things....

Sorry, but the Falun Gong people are bad news and vacant eyed. They misrepresent themselves. Case in point, there is a Chinese Dance, acrobatics, and such show in Houston. There are free very well done folded full color glossy brochures about it. You go to places where there are Asians and you have them handing out the brochures - like Moonies and Hari Krishna folks.

But, they do not openly tell you that it is put on by Falun Gong. You find out when you dig to find out who the performers are - where the acrobats and dancers came from, trained.... it takes a little while.

Why the misdirection?

Nope.... their doctrine is crazy...their leader is crazy....and they fall right in with the moonies and other annoying types that stand vacant eyed on the streets handing out their literature.

The Christian Science Monitor is an example of a news source that is backed by a religious group...but aside from their reports on Christian Science - they actually do decent reporting in many areas. The Falun Gong folks are not in that league with Epoch Times....they are several notches below the National Enquirer...and inquiring minds should know.

But of course, you will assume that anyone here single sources things...nope....

[uki]

funny... i knew nothing of epoch times being involved with falun gong until you brought it up... very interesting to say the least and now you are an active critic of the movement... LOL i do not belong to falun dafa, but i do admire the simple fact that an entire government cringes and is deathly afraid of the movements concepts and ideals. :)