What is not changing?

[Hendrik]

As we know, methods of fighting changes, evolve, and even becomes more complex.

Take a snap short from all the information we know from 1850 to 2010 China, we see all the changes, upgrade, update, evolution....etc. of a style be it WCK or CLF.

Due to different environment changes condition changes..... things changes and methods changes......etc. the Truth in the realm of Creation is that nothing is fix and everything continous to changes. Thus, One can even witness the changes of technology we are using to day from black and white TV to Cell phone.....etc




I myself seldom like to talk about these changes of fighting methods because it is a Buddhist knwoing that there is a karma --- what goes around comes around --- beating and beaten are not a pleasure karma to create.



I brought up internal training, instead because, internal training is a core conditioning to support the martial platform. and it benifit the body which will improve a person's living even if one doesnt use it to support the martial platform.





Since human are not born equal in health and strength there is the needs of these training to get one to a certain level so that if one needs martial applications one can execute it to be effective. Otherwise, the martial applications are just some flowerly move.

Face it, for doing certain application or handling certain application one needs certain energy/strenght level.

However, internal training is not some fantasy of short cut or New age nice to have entertainment. For example, in 1850, those who train CLF which is for real martial deal needs to stand in horse stand for six months before learning anything. This is internal training. With or without that six months of standing makes a big different in power generation and close body contact be it one use the same technics or just brute force.

and ofcorse, it is not just standing, One needs to know the process of how to tune the breathing, physical, and mind. Without those process. Standing there is just a wasting of time or min effectiveness.

For a born strong relatively physically strong person, it is not a big deal however for a weaker person it is a big deal with or without the internal training. and also even a strong physical person when facing aging and higher energy level applications needs, internal training boost could boost one to satisfied the needs.




So, why is so much confusion in so called internal training? That is because it was rarely clearify and difficult to grasp with common logic.


Mind is the key of creation, when one needs to create, one needs to hold that in the mind to bring the creation to the physical world.

Beyond mind is the silence or the beingness or the Awareness. To be creative, and flexible one needs to go to this level for Mind has a tendecy of getting stuck or dogmatism after a while without reset.

Mind cant imagine the Silence because it is beyond it. However, if one let go of using the mind, then silence surface. Let Go the mind, and one is within Silence.




For a complete internal training, one needs to experience both using Mind to create and go back to silence to energize the physical.

It is within these two realm, the creation and the silence that physical, breathing, Qi, Jin, momemtum were cultivated.




People talk about Qigong flow of the energy, using the flow to create something, do something for the physical, however, if one doesnt know how to get back to silence then the practice drain. If one only focus on silence and knowing not the creation then the practice becomes still and stagnated.

Qigong, Qi is not a problem, the problem is if one doesnt get beyond the mind to cultivate it and let it surface, then one has nothing to apply. and the mind is clueless until it learn something from experience.


Application is not a problem, the problem is if one keep thinking those New age or some magic internal believe can lead one to short cut the training of application, then one is fantasying.


Those who goes extreme in Application and creation will lead into paranoidal and draining or less creativity or dogmatism.

IE. trap by the pop martial art trend and thinking it got to go that way. once upon a time was Judo, then karate, then MT, then Grappling.. at every instant the followers of these pop think they know the best and universal truth until some other break through and then they abandon thier truth.


Those who goes extreme in silence will become dull wood or rock for they only see the dull silence which is lifeless.





Thus, there is nothing wrong and no problem at all if one knows both the application/dynamics/changes and the silence/stillness/energize.



What really wrong is to have no true understanding in what is what and walking the path of fantasying doing no application will become knows it all somedays. similary walking the path of application without be able to return to silence cause total drying and draining and dogmatism. Both are not the teaching of WCK 1850. IMHO

[k gledhill]

hendrik you do talk the biggest load of cr*p sometimes :D

[Hendrik]

hendrik you do talk the biggest load of cr*p sometimes :D


For some it is biggest load of cr8p, for some it is the gate entering to advance.

[Vajramusti]

Enjoyed reading your perspective . Not using one's skills when there is no other way to protect the innocent can have it's karma as well. Sometimes we are or can be faced with existential choices between two evils of different degrees. In the ancient Nalanda Buddhist university in India-
archery was there in the curriculum. Same in monastery in the Buddhist Ladakh part of Kashmir, and the monk's staff in India and China. There has also been self immolation in protest at one time in Viet nam.

Doing as little harn as possible is a different ethic from complete pacifism which is more Jain-sh.
(mahavira rather than gautama)

joy chaudhuri

[Hendrik]

Joy,

I agree. I am trying to go the path of least damage or least destruction for we know until we have the samadhi of shut off our mind/emotion at will, mind and emotion run us similar to a program running the computer by itself eventhough we are the one who feed in those programs.




For those who dont know what I am taking about, just watch ourself an see how many times our emotion (fear/ anger) and thoughts (program ) run by itself to drive our action watching a movie or tV commercial. That is the reason one needs to get to silence otherwise, one dont aware and cant even get out of the trap. serious.

Your mind and body are constantly stimulate and control in today's world. as the old practice of Zen, ask the question is the "master home?"

our master are usually not home these days, the master jumping from one loop to another loop control by external feed triggle from drinking a can of softdrink to sleeping in a water bed.

These are serious stuffs because we mostly are just robots performing what we were program to do without knowing about it.

[k gledhill]

For some it is biggest load of cr8p, for some it is the gate entering to advance.

so do I have to buy your book to advance ? :D stick to singing

[sihing]

Joy,

I agree. I am trying to go the path of least damage or least destruction for we know until we have the samadhi of shut off our mind/emotion at will, mind and emotion run us similar to a program running the computer by itself eventhough we are the one who feed in those programs.




For those who dont know what I am taking about, just watch ourself an see how many times our emotion (fear/ anger) and thoughts (program ) run by itself to drive our action watching a movie or tV commercial. That is the reason one needs to get to silence otherwise, one dont aware and cant even get out of the trap. serious.

Your mind and body are constantly stimulate and control in today's world. as the old practice of Zen, ask the question is the "master home?"

our master are usually not home these days, the master jumping from one loop to another loop control by external feed triggle from drinking a can of softdrink to sleeping in a water bed.

These are serious stuffs because we mostly are just robots performing what we were program to do without knowing about it.

This is all about awareness, which from what I understand is the first step to an enlightened way. If your not aware, you will as you say become a robot which IMO is what has happened to most in society. But this is the way the powers that be want us to be, so it was a programmed behaviour. Make us robots so that we can easily be reprogrammed at will to serve their agenda.

James

[Hendrik]

This is all about awareness, which from what I understand is the first step to an enlightened way. If your not aware, you will as you say become a robot which IMO is what has happened to most in society. But this is the way the powers that be want us to be, so it was a programmed behaviour. Make us robots so that we can easily be reprogrammed at will to serve their agenda.

James



Jame,

In my understanding,
The first thing to train for internal is awareness or silence the last thing to train in internal is also awareness.

With awareness one doesnt take things as it is, it penetrate the cloudy blinder.

IE only with awareness we aware that we are not doing lower abs breathing but keep tensing the lower abs which is not what lower abs breathing is about. or we aware our being take down is not others technics but we have no idea how to stand properly or move properly.


Thus, to qoute Yik Kam's SLT kuen kuit. The first stanza said,

Collect the Yee, union with Shen in the equal shoulder stance.

What it says is get out of your thoughts stream and emotion stream (emotion is just thoughts in action and create sensation) while you start your training of SLT. That way you will notice all the SMALL DETAIL. and that is the Power of SLT, mastery of SMALL DETAIL where others not aware of.

With these type of AWARENESS lots of things which is not obvious will surface IE Zhen Qi and minute way of manual the limbs which make possible for a certain movements/force vectors generation and handling.

As it says, I can do the what others think it is impossible because I can see what others cant see. One needs to quiet down the mind to see and that is the training of SLT.

Thus, it said " using silence to lead action."
Thus, in the Kuen kuit of Emei 12 Zhuang said " Millions of things is source from Minute/small details " But most ignore it in the past 100 years.

When this part of SLT lost or the TRUE power cultivation of SLT lost , the soul of SLT will be gone forever.

Thus, rejecting Emei 12 zhuang's snake is digging up the root of the tree SLT.

Thus, the key of training SLT is not that forward pressure...etc. but stay balance and aware at all condition. It is an adaptive equilibrium training in all mind/body states.


So what is not Changing? everything change like one cant step the same flowing water twice. and SLT is about a training which be able for one to lead changes via silence. It is not that tan bong fok it is not that 10000 bridge hands or Kiu sau or formula this or that.

It is an implementation of Awareness flow of energy which embrace changes not attach to any shape but using all the shapes.

So are we going to get it back start 2010?

[TenTigers]

Jame,

In my understanding,
The first thing to train for internal is awareness or silence the last thing to train in internal is also awareness.

With awareness one doesnt take things as it is, it penetrate the cloudy blinder.

IE only with awareness we aware that we are not doing lower abs breathing but keep tensing the lower abs which is not what lower abs breathing is about. or we aware our being take down is not others technics but we have no idea how to stand properly or move properly.


Thus, to qoute Yik Kam's SLT kuen kuit. The first stanza said,

Collect the Yee, union with Shen in the equal shoulder stance.

What it says is get out of your thoughts stream and emotion stream (emotion is just thoughts in action and create sensation) while you start your training of SLT. That way you will notice all the SMALL DETAIL. and that is the Power of SLT, mastery of SMALL DETAIL where others not aware of.

With these type of AWARENESS lots of things which is not obvious will surface IE Zhen Qi and minute way of manual the limbs which make possible for a certain movements/force vectors generation and handling.


Interesting.. I have found a similar quote. I would be interested in your thoughts on this:

"Feet stand one inch apart,the head lifts one thousand catties to stabilize the Heavenly Door.
Sink the Qi to the Dan tien and let it flow to the four limbs, Shen and Yi lie within heart,ears,feet and eyes."

[Hendrik]

Interesting.. I have found a similar quote. I would be interested in your thoughts on this:

"Feet stand one inch apart,the head lifts one thousand catties to stabilize the Heavenly Door.
Sink the Qi to the Dan tien and let it flow to the four limbs, Shen and Yi lie within heart,ears,feet and eyes."


Yup, same direction with different route.

and that route is the characteristics of the particular kung fu style and the advance of the kung fu can reach.

This one doesnt union the shen direct but split and hold the intention as "Shen and Yi lie within heart,ears,feet and eyes." IMHO.


where in SLT it is just Let Go and Let God be and directly enter into silence.
collect the Yi uninion with the Shen.
meaning awareness fill every where because everywhere turn into a balance mental/physical/breathing state.

instead of holding the Yi and shen in some part of the body.

[dirtyrat]

In my understanding,
The first thing to train for internal is awareness or silence the last thing to train in internal is also awareness.

With awareness one doesnt take things as it is, it penetrate the cloudy blinder.

IE only with awareness we aware that we are not doing lower abs breathing but keep tensing the lower abs which is not what lower abs breathing is about. or we aware our being take down is not others technics but we have no idea how to stand properly or move properly.


Thus, to qoute Yik Kam's SLT kuen kuit. The first stanza said,

Collect the Yee, union with Shen in the equal shoulder stance.

What it says is get out of your thoughts stream and emotion stream (emotion is just thoughts in action and create sensation) while you start your training of SLT. That way you will notice all the SMALL DETAIL. and that is the Power of SLT, mastery of SMALL DETAIL where others not aware of.

if awareness is what we strive for, then why talk about qi.

seems to me this will only confuse the issue.

we should just talk about awareness primarily. train your consciousness/awareness and everything else should fall into place, including qi flow.

[Hendrik]

]if awareness is what we strive for, then why talk about qi.

seems to me this will only confuse the issue.
we should just talk about awareness primarily.


Qi is a by product of Awareness, as soon as one have a physical body one has to deal with Qi effect due to different Awareness.

Hope that help.






train your consciousness/awareness and everything else should fall into place, including qi flow.


For a person who has attained the top this is the case. They let go and that's it.

The issue here is we are starting far from there.
and Thus, Qi is using as a feedback to aid the cultivation to fine tune the awareness.

Even if you look at the escoteric Buddhism teaching, they use light spots and Qi channel as aids. It is not mind thinking but real tangible attainment similar to what happen in physical realm.

Even if one is using Mantra to do a direct to Awareness cultivation Qi still surface until one attain the state of empty out the physical and mind totally. To be able to empty out with 4 hours practice per day for 3 years, Those are one out of ten thousands statistics for the cultivator.

Thus, Qi needs to be understood. it is benificial to know it as a human.



Also, one can use Qi to heal one and balance one's daily health....etc. so if one knows about it Qi is a good aides.

In reality, one cant starts with Qi or even breathing. one must starts with loose up the physical. then step by step one work into a deeper awareness. and in most case today, most doesnt even reach the state of loose enough physical to evoke the Qi. not to mention awareness.


Jumping step will create big problem.





There are lots of beauty details with SLT, which wait for one to discorve.

[kung fu fighter]

Ahh the yin mind mind not the yang mind

[dirtyrat]

Qi is a by product of Awareness, as soon as one have a physical body one has to deal with Qi effect due to different Awareness.

Hope that help.


For a person who has attained the top this is the case. They let go and that's it.

The issue here is we are starting far from there.
and Thus, Qi is using as a feedback to aid the cultivation to fine tune the awareness.

Even if you look at the escoteric Buddhism teaching, they use light spots and Qi channel as aids. It is not mind thinking but real tangible attainment similar to what happen in physical realm.

Even if one is using Mantra to do a direct to Awareness cultivation Qi still surface until one attain the state of empty out the physical and mind totally. To be able to empty out with 4 hours practice per day for 3 years, Those are one out of ten thousands statistics for the cultivator.

Thus, Qi needs to be understood. it is benificial to know it as a human.



Also, one can use Qi to heal one and balance one's daily health....etc. so if one knows about it Qi is a good aides.

In reality, one cant starts with Qi or even breathing. one must starts with loose up the physical. then step by step one work into a deeper awareness. and in most case today, most doesnt even reach the state of loose enough physical to evoke the Qi. not to mention awareness.


Jumping step will create big problem.
.


I like to keep things simple. If Qi follows the intent, then in theory all we need to do is have the intent of expanding our awareness. In theory, Qi doesn't need to come into the conversation at all. Talk about Qi is a distraction from what we ultimately want to accomplish.

[Hendrik]

I like to keep things simple.

The issue is Nature doesnt follow the simplicity of man made mind.
It is simple in its own way.



If Qi follows the intent, then in theory all we need to do is have the intent of expanding our awareness.

1, Qi not neccesary follow the intent. Qi might even go against the intent.
2, theory is thought, thought doesnt model reality until one has experience.
3, intent of expanding awareness actually box the awareness and dull it.




In theory, Qi doesn't need to come into the conversation at all.
Talk about Qi is a distraction from what we ultimately want to accomplish.

The issue is reality doesnt work as your theory.
As I point out from the previous post it simply doesnt work that way. The bottom line is how to make use of the nature as aids and what is nature's elements that is not up for any one to choose.

Cultivation that violate the nature is not going to go anyway.

[dirtyrat]

in engineering, they say that simplicity is the sign of a solid design.

same with communication. if you wish to convey your ideas, you need to explain them is simpler ways. when i read your post, i find that you could actually say things in fewer sentences, and that you could actually do away with using certain terminology.

sorry, its just a pet peeve of mine when people get more wordy then necessary. ;)

[Hendrik]

in engineering, they say that simplicity is the sign of a solid design.

same with communication. if you wish to convey your ideas, you need to explain them is simpler ways. when i read your post, i find that you could actually say things in fewer sentences, and that you could actually do away with using certain terminology.

sorry, its just a pet peeve of mine when people get more wordy then necessary. ;)



1,
The successful process of cultivation in the past thousand of years in China are:

Transform the essence to Qi
Transform the Qi to Shen
Return the Shen to Silence.

Either one follow it or not that is one's choice. I will not go for some one's smart ideas but follow the above process where others have tested for thousand of years.





2, You are right when you can play "GOD" to design something.
Your view is based on Newtonian era /western reasoning thinking which is about 400 years old.

Cutting things down to make things simple is the characteristics of this type of thinking. and now in 2010, lots of things run out of reason due to this.

However,

The Chinese cultivation needs Systemic Thinking where a, the elements of the system, b, interaction between each elements within the system, and C, inter -relationship of each elements within the system are all important.



3,


for you your critics of my post is certainly true using your logic.

for me, all what I have said is needed. in fact, I am revealing critical points which most missed or over simplified. and it is to be responsible to make sure all needs to be said said.

From you response, I know you are reading my post selectively based on your thinking or as what was said in Zen --- you didnt clean your cup before put in my tea.

Thus, I dont expect you to know or appreciate what I am posting.

and thus , ok for your critics.

[dirtyrat]

The Chinese cultivation is respectfully a "classical mess", my evasive friend. If it was more systematic more people would be having more success with it.

And a true student of the way isn't afraid of criticism.

And yet another unnecessarily wordy post. Like I said, its a pet peeve of mine. I dealt with too many used car salesman.

[t_niehoff]

The Chinese cultivation is respectfully a "classical mess", my evasive friend. If it was more systematic more people would be having more success with it.


It doesn't matter how systematic or organized you make nonsense, it remains nonsense.

And you've pointed out the proof that it is nonsense -- lack of results. If this stuff had any martial (fighting) benefit, we'd see the proof of it. If it doesn't work, we'd see no results. What do we see? No results.



And a true student of the way isn't afraid of criticism.


Anyone interested in truth -- as opposed to only reinforcing his dogmatic views -- will welcome criticism. Critical thinking is the process by which we can ferret out what is true.



And yet another unnecessarily wordy post. Like I said, its a pet peeve of mine. I dealt with too many used car salesman.

I think it was Feynman (the famous physicist) who said that if you can't explain it CLEARLY to a five year old, then you don't understand it yourself.

[cobra]

I appreciate your thoughts Hendrick, keep them rolling!

[dirtyrat]

I think it was Feynman (the famous physicist) who said that if you can't explain it CLEARLY to a five year old, then you don't understand it yourself.

Well said.

[Hendrik]

The Chinese cultivation is respectfully a "classical mess", my evasive friend. If it was more systematic more people would be having more success with it.


From you view sure.



And
a true student of the way isn't afraid of criticism.

A true student of the way will not critics due to boosting ego and personal discrimination on a topic one doesnt know either.




And yet another unnecessarily wordy post. Like I said, its a pet peeve of mine. I dealt with too many used car salesman.


A used car salesman is making his living with his/her own effort. What is so wrong ?
What are you doing for a living that give you the right to looking down on others, care to share with us?

since you bring up engineering, what kind of engineering are you doing and how many patent do you have in the past three years? hahaha

A follower of Dao will not practice that. since water always go to the lowerst.

[Hendrik]

It doesn't matter how systematic or organized you make nonsense, it remains nonsense.

.

sure,
Such as when one comments on things one are clueless ?

[Hendrik]

I appreciate your thoughts Hendrick, keep them rolling!


Thanks.

Here I continous.


The process of cultivation needs to go through Qi due to there is a physical and mental body.

One can have some clue on awareness in an instant however one will not be able to penetrate the Physical and mental body habit. Thus, multi-layers of aids are needed to penetrate throught the blocks.

And Since it is not Thoughts but dealing with nature phenomenon, mind speculation doesnt mean much.

Thus, the path via

Transform the essence to Qi,
Transform Qi to Shen,
Return Shen to Silence

are a reasonable one since majority/99.9% cant go straight to awareness and penetrate all the blocks.

[dirtyrat]

A used car salesman is making his living with his/her own effort. What is so wrong ?
What are you doing for a living that give you the right to looking down on others, care to share with us? .

I don't look down on others. I just accept people's nature and their potential. And since you ask, I work in the health field. I like to think my job allows me to give back to the community. ;)

And please don't talk to me about ego, Hendrik. You got one of the biggest egos here on this forum, my friend. It really shows in your writing and you don't need to take classes in psychology (although I have :D) to see that.

[t_niehoff]

sure,
Such as when one comments on things one are clueless ?

So says the man who believes in fairy dust.

[LoneTiger108]

I like to keep things simple. If Qi follows the intent, then in theory all we need to do is have the intent of expanding our awareness. In theory, Qi doesn't need to come into the conversation at all. Talk about Qi is a distraction from what we ultimately want to accomplish.

I remember an old line that mentions the 'intent & will' lead the hei (qi/chi) (Yi Yee Ling Hei) so your point makes some sense, but Hendrik is delving a little deeper I think. These things are quite hard to put into the english language sometimes but I am like you too, as I like things simple! Wouldn't be doing any other style if I didn't.


I think it was Feynman (the famous physicist) who said that if you can't explain it CLEARLY to a five year old, then you don't understand it yourself.

Half the problem here is that if we all treat the 'trained' like a five year old we begin to sound like we're taking the p**s. Although the 'trained' to you is not the same as everybody else (only sometimes!)

[Hendrik]

I remember an old line that mentions the 'intent & will' lead the hei (qi/chi) (Yi Yee Ling Hei) so your point makes some sense, but Hendrik is delving a little deeper I think.


These things are quite hard to put into the english language sometimes but I am like you too, as I like things simple! Wouldn't be doing any other style if I didn't.


why remember why qoute others saying? do it and experience for oneself and see for oneself what is going on.

In the name of communication, all political game can be played. and who cares all those unjust critics? I dont.


The bottom line, is those who critics has no clue even to use their kung fu to heal thier common cold. or bring thier brain wave to the spectum they intend.

So again, who cares? to argue with this type of misleading ego boosting critics to "need" pick anything for arguement sake just to win for ego purpose.

safe the energy, ask me anything about the process for real.

[dirtyrat]

safe the energy, ask me anything about the process for real.

okay, i'll bite. allow me to test your way. i'll put in the time. how would you like to begin?

[JPinAZ]

The bottom line, is those who critics has no clue even to use their kung fu to heal thier common cold. or bring thier brain wave to the spectum they intend.

Now you are complaining of, and then criticizing the critics yourself in the same sentence. You are no better!
And now you imply you can heal your common cold with the BS you talk here? Are you god too? And, how do you know what the 'critics' can or can't do?


So again, who cares? to argue with this type of misleading ego boosting critics to "need" pick anything for arguement sake just to win for ego purpose.


You are speaking into a mirror.

[k gledhill]

in engineering, they say that simplicity is the sign of a solid design.

same with communication. if you wish to convey your ideas, you need to explain them is simpler ways. when i read your post, i find that you could actually say things in fewer sentences, and that you could actually do away with using certain terminology.

sorry, its just a pet peeve of mine when people get more wordy then necessary. ;)

Hendrik ..Wordy...:D :D:D ...

[dirtyrat]

Hendrik ..Wordy...:D :D:D ...

oh, i had another word in mind, but.... ;):p;)