Bagua question

[Laz]

Hey there everyone! I have taken extreme intrest in Baguazhang and I have been searching for schools, but in my area, there are none that I can find. So what should I do? Give up? I mean, I've read that the real way to learn is through an actual teacher, not a book or video...any advice? I live in Florida BTW. Thanks in advance!

[brucereiter]

Hey there everyone! I have taken extreme intrest in Baguazhang and I have been searching for schools, but in my area, there are none that I can find. So what should I do? Give up? I mean, I've read that the real way to learn is through an actual teacher, not a book or video...any advice? I live in Florida BTW. Thanks in advance!

what city in fl?

from http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=509
Name: Andrew Chung
School: Chung's Luk Hop Kung Fu & Tai Chi
Address: 3300 SW 46th Avenue, Bay 3, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33314
Phone: 954.224.9940
E-mail: chungtaiqi@aol.com
Website: http://www.chungskungfu.com
Styles: Yang Family Tai Chi Chuan, Hebei Hsing-I Chuan, Pa Kua Chang, Hakka Kuen, Wing Chun

Teacher Name : Benjamin Sanchez
School : Heaven Man Earth International (Miami)
Address : 1 Washington Ave, Miami Beach, FL, USA
Phone : 305 360 9198
Email : benjamin@heavenmanearth.com
Website : www.heavenmanearth.com
Styles : Taiji
Lineage : Huang Sheng Shyan

Name Nick Scrima
School Chinese Martial Arts Center
Address 1370 Main St., Dunedin, FL
Phone 727.734.8222
E-mail kungfu@usa.com
Styles Mizong Luohan; Fan Tzi Eagle Claw; Yang Taijiquan; Xingyiquan;
Baguazhang; Shuai Jiao
Misc International CMA Tournament, every summer, in central Florida

Name Shifu Elio Tarrago
School Essence of Evolution
E-mail infocmia@chinesemartialinternalarts.com
Website Essence of Evolution

[KTS]

hi Laz.

welcome aboard.

may i ask what interests you in Baguazhang? and what are your goals for learning it?

if you can figure that out, it will help u find what u are looking for.

baguazhang is a woderfully complicated art compared to a basic kick and punch approach. i mean that it is heavily layered.

i agree with my grandteacher Hung that learning xingyi first is best way to go, since you would learn how to utilize the structure of the "internal" arts faster as well as create a strong base of fighting techs and strategies faster. of course u can learn bagua without previous experience. but the general fighting flavor, if one wants to call it that, would be a heck of a lot easier if u already have some kind of base and experience.

honestly, finding the best and most capable teacher in your area is what i most recommend - regardless of style. if you have an ok bagua guy but an excellent yi quan guy near you, learn that!

just never try to learn from a book or video!!!! those are really only truly used as references for students.

looking at the names provided, i would go and check them all out, and see which one feels like it fits you the best.

btw, glad to see and EoE school around! su dong chen has a great method of breaking things down!

[uki]

Hey there everyone! I have taken extreme intrest in Baguazhang and I have been searching for schools, but in my area, there are none that I can find. So what should I do? Give up? I mean, I've read that the real way to learn is through an actual teacher, not a book or video...any advice? I live in Florida BTW. Thanks in advance!the foundation of bagua is walking the circle... even without a school you can simply train the foundations as long as you like until you do find a school, at which point you will have a solid foundation to begin taking external lessons if and when the time comes.

personally, the best teacher is yourself... think about it, when someone shows you something, they don't do it for you, they just show you and in order to be shown something, you must watch and imitate - osmosis, it truly is freely available for anyone to use at any time. :)

[kfson]

There's also post heaven (linear) bagua:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E22PM_Rz20k

[Laz]

Well thanks for all the replies guys, it is much appreciated! :) Well I first was just browsing videos on youtube and I stumbled across Cheng Style Bagua...I was blown away. I was literally in awe at the beauty and grace of the fluid motions. I am just eager to learn and I think it has very many personal benefits, along with the fact it just looks amazing. I know at first my movements would be clumsy, but I am willing to try extremely hard to get them down. The reason why I was so intrested it in, was because I have never seen anything like it. Oh I also live in Loxahatchee.

[uki]

There's also post heaven (linear) bagua:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E22PM_Rz20ki was amazed in the similarity of movements between this video and my own form.

is it safe to assume that is you demonstrating??

[kfson]

i was amazed in the similarity of movements between this video and my own form.

is it safe to assume that is you demonstrating??

Very unsafe. I do not practice Bagua. Although, I am currently investigating the History, Peoples, and subgroups of Bagua.

[uki]

Although, I am currently investigating the History, Peoples, and subgroups of Bagua.the beauty is found in the circles. thanks for the video...

[dimethylsea]

Well thanks for all the replies guys, it is much appreciated! :) Well I first was just browsing videos on youtube and I stumbled across Cheng Style Bagua...I was blown away. I was literally in awe at the beauty and grace of the fluid motions. I am just eager to learn and I think it has very many personal benefits, along with the fact it just looks amazing. I know at first my movements would be clumsy, but I am willing to try extremely hard to get them down. The reason why I was so intrested it in, was because I have never seen anything like it. Oh I also live in Loxahatchee.


Laz,
Some advice for ya, maybe you will find it useful. While the movements you see in youtube clips are amazing the "real deal" comes in doing alot of circle walking, just basic focused circle walking. If you've done a sufficient amount of that.. the rest of it is a much less difficult proposition.

Here is the thing though.. if you only practice in class.. and especially if you only walk the circle in class.. you will always suck at bagua. Period. (well unless you have 4 hours of class per day or something weird). You can get good at fighting alot easier than you can get good at bagua!

You have to learn how to practice on your own and do it very well and regularly. Most bagua people will tell you, if they are honest, that this is always a challenge.

So while you need to find the best teacher you can, with the best method.. you only need to learn a few things from them in the first few years.. specifically the circle walking method.

Learn that, and how to stand the bagua way.. and go train it till it's a living thing you have dreams and nightmares about. And almost all of that training will be just you "in the yard".. grinding it out. That's what it takes, and if you don't give it that.. you will always suck at bagua.

And the messed up thing is.. even if you succeed at doing the circle walking hard enough for long enough (years worth) it will mean very little to most people (even so-called bagua people).

It has to be worth it to you.. and only to you. Good luck!

[kfson]

Laz,

Here is the thing though.. if you only practice in class.. and especially if you only walk the circle in class.. you will always suck at bagua. Period. (well unless you have 4 hours of class per day or something weird). You can get good at fighting alot easier than you can get good at bagua!

You have to learn how to practice on your own and do it very well and regularly. Most bagua people will tell you, if they are honest, that this is always a challenge.



How many minutes/hours per day do you recommend someone to practice? This could be beginners-experts.

Not being a Bagua practitioner, it seems like people describe Bagua as requiring more time for practice than other styles.

[dimethylsea]

How many minutes/hours per day do you recommend someone to practice? This could be beginners-experts.

Not being a Bagua practitioner, it seems like people describe Bagua as requiring more time for practice than other styles.

I can't say from my own experience because I'm not living up to the standards I've chosen to follow myself.

My teachers (past and present) have advised as follows..
Sifu Glenn always said that one hour of circle walking per day for a year was the absolute minimum to BEGIN to understand the circle walking practice. This was a heel-toe "natural step" style of circle walking practice (similar to how He Jinbao walks the circle only not quite so macho looking).

Yang Laoshi my present teacher says that he wants us to go through lots of shoes walking the circle. The style of circle walking he teaches uses a "grinding" kinda step with the heel down and the toe elevated, preferably on rough surfaced tile, asphalt or concrete, to get the good friction.
I'm figuring that amounts to at least an hour a day of circle walking (and a method of walking that is tough enough you have to stop for breath every 10-15 minutes or so).

So most serious bagua teachers in the lineage preach a similar gospel.
An hour a day is the minimum they want to see to know you are serious as a casual student.

Three hours a day for 10 years is the traditional prescription for "inheritors".

Please note I am stating OUTRIGHT I am not at this level of dedication (neither the 1 hour nor the 3). I get maybe 3 hours a week in dedicated circle walking (static upper body or single palm change).

[Laz]

More awesome replies thanks guys :) I think I can do the circle walking for at least an hour a day. Although, how do I know if I am doing it right? Do I need certain shoes? Shouldn't I learn how to do the walk straight first? I thought I read that somewhere...

[kfson]

More awesome replies thanks guys :) I think I can do the circle walking for at least an hour a day. Although, how do I know if I am doing it right? Do I need certain shoes?

Aha, this is a thread I planned to start. What shoes do you use? Do you use different shoes for different styles?

I prefer thinner sole shoes so there is less likelihood for collapsing an ankle. I have used Converse Chuck Taylor, but they don't fit me at my big toe. Presently I'm using Adidas Rod Laver tennis shoes and Adidas Samba indoor soccer shoes.

[uki]

i wear leather keens... waterproof, non-slip... i also been wearing leather snow boots alot this year so far when training. :D

[dimethylsea]

More awesome replies thanks guys :) I think I can do the circle walking for at least an hour a day. Although, how do I know if I am doing it right? Do I need certain shoes? Shouldn't I learn how to do the walk straight first? I thought I read that somewhere...

You need a teacher bro. Find a good one (preferably one who can tell you their lineage back to Dong Haichuan the founder), who has a good method.

The best way to do this is do your homework, find out the best teachers within the geographic area you can get to (even for a brief visit). Call them or email them and tell them that you are a newb and wish to visit, pay for a private lesson and learn their basic circle walking practice. Bring a camera if you can. If they want to teach you other things politely decline and just learn circle walking and (at most) single palm change.
Go and take a private lesson with them, ask if you can film your own lesson (this is usually not a problem if you are paying for the lesson). Learn their version of the basics (in your head at least) and take lots of notes.

Then comes the hard part. You go home and spend an hour a day for 3 months working it. Then go back for another private lesson and corrections. Do that for a year or two. If you work it like this you will have a good foundation and you will be able to judge whether your present teacher is good enough to take you further or whether you need to move up to a teacher with more skill.

Pick the best teacher you can initially and work their method per their instructions for a half year, at an hour a day. You'll have a better foundation than most bagua people do, if you can manage this.

[kfson]

i wear leather keens... waterproof, non-slip... i also been wearing leather snow boots alot this year so far when training. :D

Drop the leather snow boots.

Frog style Bagua:
http://thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/tds/videos/season_06/episode_044/ds_06044_06_zen_v6.jpg

[Laz]

How much would these shoes cost? I don't have a job (Although I am in the process of looking for one) I only have running shoes and some converse high tops. And I cannot seem to find ANY teachers that are not 2 hours away from me. All the schools are on the west coast of Florida...

[uki]

How much would these shoes cost? I don't have a job (Although I am in the process of looking for one) I only have running shoes and some converse high tops. And I cannot seem to find ANY teachers that are not 2 hours away from me. All the schools are on the west coast of Florida...you're screwed dude...

[Laz]

Its seems so :(

[kfson]

Chung's Luk Hop Kung Fu Academy
Tai Chi, Ba Gua, Hsing-I, Liu He Ba Fa
Master Andrew Chung
Pelican Bays 4980 SW 52nd St. Suite 121
Ft.Lauderdale, FL 33314
Phone: (954) 224-9940

[dimethylsea]

Laz,

Looks like Chung is only an hour away.

Like I said.. private lessons 4 times a year. Go Greyhound. If you want it.. make it happen!

[Tao Of The Fist]

Great idea, I'd like to make a few suggestions with that: firstoff, don't be afraid to ask questions and ask often. If you don't understand something, seize the opportunity to learn. Especially if you have an email address for that teacher.That with the camera will help.

Secondly, Don't try to learn from Youtube :D. As silly as that sounds, there are alot of people who tried to learn from a book or an instructional video when they started out, me included. While they make good reference points if you get lost, they don't give the finer details needed. There is no good substitution for a teacher. Oh, that reminds me, ask the teacher if there is anything out there that you can or should use as reference.

Last but not least is to find a place where you can practice without being bothered. If you live close to a park, find a spot that is generally secluded and practice there. If you have a backyard, there you go. Living in apartments, I don't have a backyard, and I hate when people watch me from the porch or the window. If that doesn't bother you then disregard this last comment.

Good luck homes ;)

[uki]

I hate when people watch me from the porch or the window.it doesn't bother me as long as i have my space... when i get crowded i tend to use people as posts to walk around or tagets to shadow form to - both cases usually drives people to get out of my space... i have a habit of going into ballistic form while waiting for my tea water to boil or food to cook in the kitchen... outside of my closest circle of friends and family, one will hardly ever witness me practice form work or my general practice time. i have a big open living room with an 11' ceiling, so doing form in the house is no big problem, accept for having to dodge two kids and my girlfriend. :)

[KTS]

there are a few good replies here. i will add what i believe to be some helpful tips and advice.

1 - never learn from a book or video. i am sure there are some people who hate to hear this, but it is best to start practice only after recieving qualified instruction. and only practice the instruction you recieve. u can easily hurt yourself or create a long term injury by twisting the wrong way, or walking the wrong way and not following the principals. u have to know the difference between the soreness of a workout and the soreness of doing something in the wrong manner. a teacher cannot be reproduced by a thousand books. a qualified teacher has the necessary real life experience, knowledge, training, and has put in the work and will be able to tell you how to adjust appropriatly. treat books and videos only as references to your actual study, after you have undergone a period of training. and, although i don't have a use for books or videos, i have made it a personal rule to never practice anything from a book or video. i work from direct teaching and experience.

2 - if your nearest school is 2 hours away, what is the problem? for my xingyi and bagua, i have a little over an hour of tavel. used to be a 90 minute drive before moving. if that is a lot to you, then make the trip only 2 or 3 times a month and make the most out of those trips. you can possibly or likely work something out with the teacher. and i am sure, if you are sincere, he/she will appreciate the dedication of you travelling a far distance to learn.

3 - best shoes i have found are indoor soccer shoes. they are low-tops, fairly flexible, and durable as well so they will not wear out in a month. and you want low-tops btw. that ankle support you get from mids or highs will not help develop lower leg strength and flexibility. u need lows! and the more flexible, usually the better.

4 - be careful of what you hear/read/see. don't get things mixed is what i mean. if you learn yin style bagua, and you see different methods from cheng style, you don't want to incorporate and mix these up. at least until you have 4-6 years of practice and know what you are doing. thing's are taught the way they are for a reason. i support being creative in practice, but only after havng a solid understanding and being capable of demonstrating in high proficiency first.

5 - practice at home!!! there are a ton of people who only practice in the one or two classes they have a week. if you want to get to a decent level, and not feel like you are wasting you time, then you have to put in the work and eat some bitter yourself. u should be able to commit to at least an hour everyday for practice. and, the basics are most important. i have seen a lot of people who enjoy fun forms, or more extreme and technical forms or techniques, but these never work well unless you maintain fundamental practices. but first, u have to develope those fundamentals for quite a while. and never abondon them. even after years of practice, i still enjoy basic footwork exercises and similar foundation work. these never become less than a priority.

[uki]

practice at home!!!aye... that's why i built a 1000 sq foot flagstone patio in my front yard. :D

[kfson]

James C. Cravens
3607 N. Ocean Blvd., #240
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33308
(305) 741-5779
Pa Kua Chang

Wei Lun Huang
4405 SW 64th Court
Miami, FL 33155
(305) 663-0935
Yang Tai Chi
Liou He Bah Fah
Chi Kung

Johnny Kwong Ming Lee
3826 Manatee Ave. W.
Brendanton, FL 34205
(813) 747-0123
HeBei Hsing I
Pa Kua Chang

Brian Weatherly
4846 Gary Rd.
Bonita Springs, FL 33923
(813) 495-3919
Pa Kua Chang

Yan Gao Fei
2051 Hollywood Blvd.
Hollywood, FL 33020
(954) 924-3445
flchentaichi@hotmail.com
www.flchentaichi.com
Chen Tai Chi

Gary S. Torres
11805 Carrollwood Village Cove
Tampa, FL 33624
(813) 961-1163
drtorres@tampabay.rr.com
phoenixdragonkungfu.com
Yang Tai Chi
Guang Ping Yang
Hsing I Chuan
Pa Kua Chang
I Chuan
Chi Kung
Meditation

[uki]

Gary S. Torres
11805 Carrollwood Village Cove
Tampa, FL 33624
(813) 961-1163
drtorres@tampabay.rr.com
phoenixdragonkungfu.com
Yang Tai Chi
Guang Ping Yang
Hsing I Chuan
Pa Kua Chang
I Chuan
Chi Kung
Meditationone of peter kwoks students...

[Laz]

You guys have no idea how excited I am! I think I am going to see what Chung has to offer, due to the fact it is moderatly close! Does that school have an email address? And thank you all! It is greatly appreciated and I really am grateful for all the help!

[uki]

You guys have no idea how excited I am! I think I am going to see what Chung has to offer, due to the fact it is moderatly close! Does that school have an email address? And thank you all! It is greatly appreciated and I really am grateful for all the help!GO NOW!!! travel quickly as the knowledge you seek will leave you a marked man... you will become self-empowered, confident in the face of all adversary... you have made a wise decision my son - may the breath of the dragon sustain you. :p

[Tao Of The Fist]

GO NOW!!! travel quickly as the knowledge you seek will leave you a marked man... you will become self-empowered, confident in the face of all adversary... you have made a wise decision my son - may the breath of the dragon sustain you. :p

... and your lucky numbers are 5, 8, 18, 24, 64.

[Laz]

Alright I emailed him and just requested general information such as cost and whatnot...now we play the waiting game. So may I ask what style you all practice and how long you have been practing it?

[Tao Of The Fist]

Alright I emailed him and just requested general information such as cost and whatnot...now we play the waiting game. So may I ask what style you all practice and how long you have been practing it?

Jiang style (a Cheng substyle) and now i'm starting to learn Liang style. Both are relatively new, Jiang in the last year and Liang in the last month?

[Laz]

Only styles I can tell the difference are of Yin and Cheng. And to my knowledge Yin is percussive and more...strikish. And Cheng is more fluid and about redirecting the opponents center and throws. At least I think thats what it is. What is Jiang and Liang?

[uki]

... and your lucky numbers are 5, 8, 18, 24, 64.i'll take 18, the 3rd from both the left and right sides... the root of 9(number of change) - the element of wood; fires inspiration... fuel. :D

[Laz]

That was pretty well thought out :D

[Tao Of The Fist]

To answer your question Laz, Jiang style is a Cheng substyle that includes some Xingyi flavor to it (they're sister arts, they work well together). It's one of the most popular bagua styles out there. It was made by a third generation master Jiang Rong Qiao who's teacher Zhang Zhaodong (Zhaokui) also combined bagua with xingyi.

Liang style is it's own style, who's founder Liang Zhenpu was a student of Dong Haichuan. Unlike Yin Fu and Cheng Tinghua, he didn't have a whole lot of experience in martial arts when he met Dong, just some tan tui, so his style is more like what Dong practiced. Dong usually only taught experienced martial artists, Yin Fu did Luohan Shaolin, Cheng Tinghua did Shuai Jiao, etc. Liang was kind of an exception, and his last student. The other thing about Liang is that he also learned from his older classmates, which is why you see Swimming Body and 64 Linear form and things like that.

[Laz]

Ah yes I have seen Swimming Dragon and the linear forms...are the linear forms just the normal Bagua forms without circle walking?

[woliveri]

Jiang style (a Cheng substyle) and now i'm starting to learn Liang style. Both are relatively new, Jiang in the last year and Liang in the last month?

Hey Tao, are you learning Jiang Style in Monterey Park (Barnes Park)??

[Tao Of The Fist]

Hey Tao, are you learning Jiang Style in Monterey Park (Barnes Park)??

No, But I used to live in the Monterey/Carmel area... Is there a group there?

I live in Las Vegas, and my new focus is on Liang style, Jiang was something I picked up from friends and peers. I learned like half of the new form.

[woliveri]

Barnes Park is where I saw Master Jiang teaching. Right close to Gong ZhongXiang (Wang Zhuangfei's lineage).


Yan Gao Fei
2051 Hollywood Blvd.
Hollywood, FL 33020
(954) 924-3445
flchentaichi@hotmail.com
www.flchentaichi.com
Chen Tai Chi


http://chessman71.wordpress.com/2006/08/23/american-chen-stylist-and-child-porn/

[uki]

Ah yes I have seen Swimming Dragon and the linear forms...are the linear forms just the normal Bagua forms without circle walking?anything you can do linear, you can do while walking the circle... the secret of bagua is walking the circle... go practice all your upper body movements that you would normally do in your practice while walking the circle instead... you add whole new dimensions to linear sets. if you really want to get technical you can start incorporating the basics of mathematics and geometry into your training. walk the circle, but restrict arm movements to triangular movements in relation to your center line - find the locks and throws, redistribute energy, reverse torque rotations... draw shapes with hands... become a medium of geometric self-expression.

That was pretty well thought out.actually it all just comes naturally. :)

[kfson]

anything you can do linear, you can do while walking the circle... the secret of bagua is walking the circle... go practice all your upper body movements that you would normally do in your practice while walking the circle instead... you add whole new dimensions to linear sets. if you really want to get technical you can start incorporating the basics of mathematics and geometry into your training. walk the circle, but restrict arm movements to triangular movements in relation to your center line - find the locks and throws, redistribute energy, reverse torque rotations... draw shapes with hands... become a medium of geometric self-expression.
actually it all just comes naturally. :)

It's becoming more apparent... uki doesn't know what he's talking about.

[uki]

It's becoming more apparent... uki doesn't know what he's talking about.where the hell have you been? :D

[Laz]

Well here is an update I suppose, he hasn't emailed me back and my parents won't let me take lessons due to how far away the school is. So all I can do now is circle walk. Circle Walk till my legs explode :D

[dimethylsea]

Well here is an update I suppose, he hasn't emailed me back and my parents won't let me take lessons due to how far away the school is. So all I can do now is circle walk. Circle Walk till my legs explode :D

How old are you Laz?

[kfson]

If there is a teacher in your area, why don't you start out in Hsing-I? Many schools require this anyway.

[dimethylsea]

If there is a teacher in your area, why don't you start out in Hsing-I? Many schools require this anyway.


Xingyi (at least the five elements) is good to know and it good for building a foundation.. just be aware that anyone who says you can't get good bagua WITHOUT doing xingyi is probably underinformed on the bagua side of things.

[Laz]

I am only 15.

[uki]

I am only 15.born in 1994??

[Tao Of The Fist]

There's nothing wrong with that, I was born in 1990..

[uki]

There's nothing wrong with that, I was born in 1990..just attempting to zero in on the chinese astrological sign... you are the horse, laz is looking like a dog. :D

[Tao Of The Fist]

just attempting to zero in on the chinese astrological sign... you are the horse, laz is looking like a dog. :D

Metal Horse to be exact (and a Saggitarius= Double horses), and he looks to be either a wood dog or a water rooster depending on how early he was born I think....

[KTS]

u forgot to add wether the sign is a yin or yang sign. an example could be yin water tiger.

[uki]

u forgot to add wether the sign is a yin or yang sign. an example could be yin water tiger.naturally the signs themselves are charged, two per element... as in your example above, the tiger shares the rabbits element... tigers are yang and rabbits are yin. :p

http://www.holymtn.com/astrology/year.htm

[Dale Dugas]

I am a Fire Ram, as I was born in 1967.

Man, I feel old now.....

[Skip J.]

I am a Fire Ram, as I was born in 1967.

Man, I feel old now.....
Well, my son was born in 1967, so I am a bit older myself..

Feeling older all the time lately...

[Lucas]

im a cosmic sea turtle....its a rare sign.

[KTS]

i mean, there is also a yin/yang cycle based on the exact day of birth. i am black water dog. that way u can tell exactly when i was born. i didnt add the hour, but that would count too.


so, depending on the day, there is an extra yin/yang in front of a sign like fire dragon.

cycles of 2, 5, and 12 are most seen, but there are even others to the 3 i mentioned here. chinese have this down to an exact science!

btw, anybody ever take study of blood types and tradition in different cultures? they sort of correspond, but not exactly. japanese have a system somewhat similar to koreans, but, it looks fairly different. but, these can be fairly popular things in various areas. it is interesting to look into at least.

[edededed]

To answer your question Laz, Jiang style is a Cheng substyle that includes some Xingyi flavor to it (they're sister arts, they work well together). It's one of the most popular bagua styles out there. It was made by a third generation master Jiang Rong Qiao who's teacher Zhang Zhaodong (Zhaokui) also combined bagua with xingyi.

Liang style is it's own style, who's founder Liang Zhenpu was a student of Dong Haichuan. Unlike Yin Fu and Cheng Tinghua, he didn't have a whole lot of experience in martial arts when he met Dong, just some tan tui, so his style is more like what Dong practiced. Dong usually only taught experienced martial artists, Yin Fu did Luohan Shaolin, Cheng Tinghua did Shuai Jiao, etc. Liang was kind of an exception, and his last student. The other thing about Liang is that he also learned from his older classmates, which is why you see Swimming Body and 64 Linear form and things like that.

Liang Zhenpu was not Dong's last student, but rather his youngest student. :)

It is also true that Liang learned from the older students as well, but the 64 hands (linear form) came from Liu Dekuan (not Liang Zhenpu). (Liang's disciples also learned with many of their "brothers" in the art.)

[Tao Of The Fist]

Liang Zhenpu was not Dong's last student, but rather his youngest student. :)

It is also true that Liang learned from the older students as well, but the 64 hands (linear form) came from Liu Dekuan (not Liang Zhenpu). (Liang's disciples also learned with many of their "brothers" in the art.)

Which is why I said "he also learned from his older classmates, which is why you see Swimming Body and 64 Linear form and things like that". I never specified who, although it was Liu Dekuan who created the 64 linear palms. So there, ha! :D

I stand corrected on the first thing. :p

Li Ziming, my grandmaster's teacher, is a perfect example of that last commment. He spent his entire life studying baguazhang theory, history, etc., not just Liang style.