"Eat Bitter..." is BS.

[kfson]

If you expect bitterness and suffering, you will manifest bitterness and suffering.

Carry on with your way of life.

[SPJ]

fruition of your labor tastes better/sweet.

:)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Close cover before striking match.

[David Jamieson]

If you expect bitterness and suffering, you will manifest bitterness and suffering.

Carry on with your way of life.


Read my signature.

:)

[Lokhopkuen]

The Four Noble Truths:

1) The Truth concerning the origin of Suffering is thus:
Birth is characterized by suffering and dissatisfaction, Death is characterized by suffering and dissatisfaction, Being with the unpleasant is characterized by suffering and dissatisfaction, Being away from what is pleasant is characterized by suffering and dissatisfaction.

2) The truth concerning the cause of this suffering and dissatisfaction is that it arises from cravings, the craving not to be forgotten, craving for sense pleasures and craving sometimes, for death.

3) The truth concerning the way to overcome the suffering and dissatisfaction brought about by craving is to cause craving itself to cease, to withdraw from participating in it, to renounce it, to liberate oneself from it completely.

4) The truth concerning the way to cease craving is to follow The Noble Eightfold Path of Virtue which consists of right views, right intentions, right speech, right activities, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

[kfson]

Read my signature.

:)

Your destiny is manifest.

[Lucas]

Expecting and seeking bitterness is not the same as accepting the inevitable.

[David Jamieson]

Your destiny is manifest.

nay.

destiny is untrue.

free will is the wind in my sails. :)
mind is my rudder.
hard work is my vessel.

[Kpower]

And Destiny is the jagged rock sitting just under the water line.

[David Jamieson]

And Destiny is the jagged rock sitting just under the water line.

dude, how many accounts are you trying to juggle? lol
try not to forget which is which.

also, destiny is for the weak minded. there is n such thing and it is often an excuse for bad planning and general failure.

I own my failings, lock stock and barrel and wouldn't attribute any of them to destiny.

:)

If my ship sinks, the sea is too strong. If my ship fails, it is my failure.
There is no destiny, only free will.

My free will trumps your destiny.
Light scares darkness away at every corner.
Go to the light and shed your darkness.
It will be a lot less confusing and it is more satisfying to run your life and affairs as a real human being being! :)

In essence, maybe your "eat bitter is BS because your whole game plan is BS?
not throwing stones, just pointing out that in order to succeed in anything, you must work hard. If you cannot work hard or will not work hard, you will not succeed and in fact, you don't deserve to. :)

[Kpower]

For the record this is my only account. My only point about the jagged rock was that sometimes things happen that are beyond your control. Free will leads you down a path and being who you are that path is inevitable. Your decisions are the sum of your experiences filtered and processed by your mind. Jagged rocks are inevitable as well and how you handle them displays your character.

For example you can't control when you get cancer or get struck by lightning but you can control how you react to it. You can fight to live or overcome your fears or you can roll over and die.

Taking responsibility for everything can lead to self blame and self esteem issues. Sometimes shlt happens. The question is what are you gonna do about it?

[Drake]

For the record this is my only account. My only point about the jagged rock was that sometimes things happen that are beyond your control. Free will leads you down a path and being who you are that path is inevitable. Your decisions are the sum of your experiences filtered and processed by your mind. Jagged rocks are inevitable as well and how you handle them displays your character.

For example you can't control when you get cancer or get struck by lightning but you can control how you react to it. You can fight to live or overcome your fears or you can roll over and die.

Taking responsibility for everything can lead to self blame and self esteem issues. Sometimes shlt happens. The question is what are you gonna do about it?

You can actually avoid a LOT of things. Blaming fate for your inability to comprehend dangers is not a very good method of living. While there is the chance of being hit by a random strike, you can virtually negate this by folowing simple safety procedures. We put ourselves in bad situations, blame god when they happen, and never bother to think about what we might have done to avoid it.

There is no such thing as fate. Either you walked into someone else's poor decisions, or you walked into another creature, microbe, virus, or natural event that would have happened if you were there or not.

[bawang]

dont make ur white students eat bitter!!!!! it makes them good at kung fu
then u cant milk their monehs to buy delicious kfc 5 piece meal

i know a chen taichi sifu thats been milking his students, some started learning with him since 1987
theyre still not good
lolololol

[Kpower]

I'm not blaming God or anyone else.

There is no blame. I make decisions and sometimes these decisions have unforeseeable ramifications.
If I choose to go to Hawaii on vacation then I am exercising my free will. If an earthquake sends a tidal wave to hit the islands while I am there then that is fate. Sure I decided to go and that is my responsibility but the tidal wave was going to happen anyway. That is fate. Unforeseeable unstoppable events that can change the course of your life. These events can be the result of someone's decisions but it doesn't matter in the end. Like a drunk driver that swerves off the road and clips you while you are riding your bike or a guy who walks into work and starts shooting which happened near me the other day. These things aren't your fault but they are events you can't plan for.

[taai gihk yahn]

dont make ur white students eat bitter!!!!! it makes them good at kung fu
whitey's kung fu always trumps the yellow-man's! that's 'cause we've got more manly chest-hair (the real stuff, not some paste-on bisness)



then u cant milk their monehs to buy delicious kfc 5 piece meal, u can only afford toonie tuesdays
youve been warned
if u had a job at kfc like u shud, u cud eat it all day long

[bawang]

whitey's kung fu always trumps the yellow-man's! that's 'cause we've got more manly chest-hair (the real stuff, not some paste-on bisness)

DAM YOU GWEILO
*glues hair to chest and rubs cheese on armpits

[taai gihk yahn]

I'm not blaming God or anyone else.

There is no blame. I make decisions and sometimes these decisions have unforeseeable ramifications.
If I choose to go to Hawaii on vacation then I am exercising my free will. If an earthquake sends a tidal wave to hit the islands while I am there then that is fate. Sure I decided to go and that is my responsibility but the tidal wave was going to happen anyway. That is fate. Unforeseeable unstoppable events that can change the course of your life. These events can be the result of someone's decisions but it doesn't matter in the end. Like a drunk driver that swerves off the road and clips you while you are riding your bike or a guy who walks into work and starts shooting which happened near me the other day. These things aren't your fault but they are events you can't plan for.

nope; tidal wave was not fate - that would mean that, since the beginning of all Time™, the tidal wave was gonna happen; not true - a confluence of events interacting in a complex manner gave rise to that wave - but if any one of those events were sufficiently different, the wave may not have happened; and part of what influenced those events was the collective decision making of all people / animals / fish / microbes / plants etc. on earth in terms of how those activities influence the environment; the other aspect, Nature™ in and of itself (e.g. - if there were no living creatures), interacts in ways that while based on certain rules, also displays seemingly inherent randomness, which is again in context of behavior of complex systems; meaning that from moment to moment the system can change unpredictably; since Fate™ is predicated on the notion of predictability (e.g. - that a given event is destined to happen without possibility of it not), then that precludes complexity;
life is the moment to moment net effect of all things interacting on all things; nothing can be predicted exactly; one can never be 100% certain of the next moment; we like ideas like fate because it gives us the illusion of certainty; but ultimately, this is an immature response to the reality of things

[taai gihk yahn]

DAM YOU GWEILO
*glues hair to chest and rubs cheese on armpits
LOL
<breathes deeply of yellow man / cheese stench, thereby completing last step of immortal transformation>

[bawang]

eat bitter is vital for kung fu but too much bitter isnt good either

i knew some angry kung fu guys who popped blood vessels being so angry all the time
its not a healthy lifestyle



north america is the other way around. white kung fu people tell me their sifu never beat them not even once rediculous. is this kung fu or grown man daycare?
when i was a kid my opening door teacher said "i beat you like i beat my own son" i felt so proud

[TenTigers]

dont make ur white students eat bitter!!!!! it makes them good at kung fu
then u cant milk their monehs to buy delicious kfc 5 piece meal

i know a chen taichi sifu thats been milking his students, some started learning with him since 1987
theyre still not good
lolololol

just anutha example of the yellow man keepin a white brutha down!

[dimethylsea]

when i was a kid my opening door teacher said "i beat you like i beat my own son" i felt so proud


This is one of your best quotes yet!

[Scott R. Brown]

nope; tidal wave was not fate - that would mean that, since the beginning of all Time™, the tidal wave was gonna happen; not true - a confluence of events interacting in a complex manner gave rise to that wave - but if any one of those events were sufficiently different, the wave may not have happened; and part of what influenced those events was the collective decision making of all people / animals / fish / microbes / plants etc. on earth in terms of how those activities influence the environment; the other aspect, Nature™ in and of itself (e.g. - if there were no living creatures), interacts in ways that while based on certain rules, also displays seemingly inherent randomness, which is again in context of behavior of complex systems; meaning that from moment to moment the system can change unpredictably;

The problem with this view is that it cannot be demonstrated that any of these events would have or could have happened any other way! The FACT is they did occur in the way they did which resulted in whatever events followed from them.

Perhaps it is just a delusion to think that they “could” have occurred some other way. But since this is a thesis that cannot be demonstrated, because to demonstrate it we would have to be able to go back in time and observe “something else” happening in a manner that resulted in a different outcome, we cannot know whether something else would or could have happened. We just want to believe it would or could happen.

Therefore all we are doing is “assuming” or “believing” which is different than “knowing” events “would have” or “could have” happened differently”!


since Fate™ is predicated on the notion of predictability (e.g. - that a given event is destined to happen without possibility of it not), then that precludes complexity;
life is the moment to moment net effect of all things interacting on all things; nothing can be predicted exactly; one can never be 100% certain of the next moment; we like ideas like fate because it gives us the illusion of certainty; but ultimately, this is an immature response to the reality of things

I don’t know if we can say that “events cannot be predicted because the universe is a complex system”. At best all we can say is, “we do not presently have the ability to predict events with precision because of the complexity of the system”.

However this too is somewhat misleading.

If a coin is flipped, we cannot say with certainty whether heads or tails will result, but we can say with certainty that either heads, tails, or not-heads/not-tails will occur. Therefore whether we have predicted an outcome or not depends upon the context of the prediction. Heads, tails or not-heads/not-tails IS a certainty and the necessity of the precision of the prediction is based solely upon an arbitrary decision!

When the system is more complex it merely increases the possible outcomes, but an outcome may be predicted with some certainty.

So, if we use a coin we have three possibilities, with a die we have seven possibilities, 1,2,3,4,5,6 or none of the above. Whether this prediction is precise or not is determined by what we want to consider precise. Since it is not possible to be precise beyond the seven possibilities we can say we are being precise according to the context of what is possible, our precision is 7-to-1 rather than 1-1, whereas with a coin our precision is 3-1!

Further,

If it is true that, “Fate is predicated on the notion of predictability”, and therefore, “nothing can be predicted exactly”, then if follows that you cannot predict that life is unpredictable “exactly”, which means it “may be" predictable. If the statement “life is unpredictable” is true then it is an "exact prediction" that "life is unpredictable". This demonstrates that life, in some way, IS predictable. By predicting that life is unpredictable we are proving that life IS predictable, at least some of the time and therefore the statement "life is unpredictable" is untrue!

If unpredictability is predictable then unpredictability is not unpredictable and some “things” ARE predictable, which means that Fate now becomes possible!

For if unpredictability is predictable, and therefore, at least “something” IS predictable, we must accept that other things may also be predictable. Since predictability has been demonstrated to be possible, and Fate is "that which is predictable", Fate may exist!

He shoots….he scores!!! The crowd cheers……arms are raised in victory…..a mocking victory dance occurs.....and repeated condescending pointing at the LOSER is initated!!!!!!!:p

And lastly, How is it that YOU got the trademark on the words, “Time” and “Fate”? Do we need your written permission to use these terms in our posts now?:confused::confused::confused::eek:

[David Jamieson]

DAM YOU GWEILO
*glues hair to chest and rubs cheese on armpits

Too French...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sometime people confuse fate (destiny) with pre-ordination.

Fate and destiny CAN exist, a man that keeps walking across the street against the light in traffic is "destined/fated" to get hit by a car.
Pre-destination or pre-ordained ( not sure if they are the samething), is someone that was born to get hit by a car, no matter what he did to avoid it.


Fate is something we can control, pre-ordination is not ( if you believe in that stuff) and God ( if you believe) has ZERO to do with both.

[uki]

If you expect bitterness and suffering, you will manifest bitterness and suffering.

Carry on with your way of life.aye mate... mind is the path. :)

[Scott R. Brown]

Sometime people confuse fate (destiny) with pre-ordination.

Fate and destiny CAN exist, a man that keeps walking across the street against the light in traffic is "destined/fated" to get hit by a car.
Pre-destination or pre-ordained ( not sure if they are the samething), is someone that was born to get hit by a car, no matter what he did to avoid it.


Fate is something we can control, pre-ordination is not ( if you believe in that stuff) and God ( if you believe) has ZERO to do with both.

Go away!!! I am TRYING to take a topic and make it complicated beyond reason! YOU are NOT helping!!!!:mad::p:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Go away!!! I am TRYING to take a topic and make it complicated beyond reason! YOU are NOT helping!!!!:mad::p:D

* skulks off to watch p0rn*

[Scott R. Brown]

* skulks off to watch p0rn*

I am sure you meant post more pics of scantily clad women that some how pertains to topics of free-will, fate & destiny, etc.

All we need to is to find a nice model named "Destiny" I think!;)

[David Jamieson]

aye mate... mind is the path. :)

next time you're thirsty, let your mind tell you you aren't.

next time you hunger, tell yourself you aren't.

Mind is a path. It is definitely not the path.

there are no absolutes.

[taai gihk yahn]

there are no absolutes.

what about that one?

<ignoring Scott...>

[Scott R. Brown]

there are no absolutes.

In tone with my previous attempt at complicating the matter......

.....the statement, "There are no absolutes" is itself an absolute statement that, if true, demonstrates there are indeed absolutes. As with TGY's statement on Fate, the truth of the assertion demonstrates its own falsity!

[Scott R. Brown]

what about that one?

<ignoring Scott...>

See above!!!!

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am sure you meant post more pics of scantily clad women that some how pertains to topics of free-will, fate & destiny, etc.

All we need to is to find a nice model named "Destiny" I think!;)

Destiny Monique:
http://filmgordon.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/vixens259_destiny_monique_arredondo.jpg?w=410&h=478

[sanjuro_ronin]

there are no absolutes.

Absolutely !!

[David Jamieson]

It's unlikely and improbable that absolutes actually exist.

:p

[Scott R. Brown]

Destiny Monique:
http://filmgordon.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/vixens259_destiny_monique_arredondo.jpg?w=410&h=478

Puuuuuuuuurrrrrrrfect!!!!:D

[Scott R. Brown]

It's unlikely and improbable that absolutes actually exist.

:p

Which is still an absolute statement which, if true, demonstrates that at least "some" absolutes exist. The question then becomes, which principles are absolute and which are relative and can something be both absolute and relative and/or neither absolute nor relative!:eek::confused:

[Dragonzbane76]

change is the absolute and constant.

[Hendrik]

If you expect bitterness and suffering, you will manifest bitterness and suffering.

Carry on with your way of life.



Eat Bitter is a description of the process while the pupa transform into butterfly.

The pupa is seal into the cocoon, the pupa force to break the cocoon due to its body has transform, the pupa then has to live a new life where the old world shattered/break into piece and no longer there.


It is Bitter when one seal oneself into the cocoon /taking the training process and cut off oneself from its familiar world.

It is Bitter to wait in the cocoon while cant see the light on the other end of the tunnel.

It is Bitter to Break the cocoon because breaking it means breaking the used to blanket of security.

It is Bitter to take off as a Butterfly because one needs to approve one no longer is a pupa but approve one is in fact a Butterfly which can fly.

It is Bitter after one take off that one no longer can return to the old home.




Without going through this transformation there is no Kung Fu. and the depth of the Kung fu depend on the process of the transformation and many things.

It is even bitter if the process being terminated prematurely.......



Courage is needed, Faith is needed. and how many really have it?

Ie: if you keep believe all fight needs to grap then you are right. If you approve of yourself and see the doesnt have to go only one way. That too is right. But do you have the courage to approve yourself ? it is always easy to stay the same with others. it feels safe in that cocoon or the old world. But then you will not be able to fly. It is always easier to proof other pupa wrong and preach no butterfly.

[David Jamieson]

Eat Bitter is a description of the process while the pupa transform into butterfly.

The pupa is seal into the cocoon, the pupa force to break the cocoon due to its body has transform, the pupa then has to live a new life where the old world shattered/break into piece and no longer there.


It is Bitter when one seal oneself into the cocoon /taking the training process and cut off oneself from its familiar world.

It is Bitter to wait in the cocoon while cant see the light on the other end of the tunnel.

It is Bitter to Break the cocoon because breaking it means breaking the used to blanket of security.

It is Bitter to take off as a Butterfly because one needs to approve one no longer is a pupa but approve one is in fact a Butterfly which can fly.

It is Bitter after one take off that one no longer can return to the old home.




Without going through this transformation there is no Kung Fu. and the depth of the Kung fu depend on the process of the transformation and many things.

It is even bitter if the process being terminated prematurely.......



Courage is needed, Faith is needed. and how many really have it?

Ie: if you keep believe all fight needs to grap then you are right. If you approve of yourself and see the doesnt have to go only one way. That too is right. But do you have the courage to approve yourself ? it is always easy to stay the same with others. it feels safe in that cocoon or the old world. But then you will not be able to fly. It is always easier to proof other pupa wrong and preach no butterfly.

also, besides the chrysalis and in relation to duality being our point of understanding, it has often been said that "How can one know sweet if they have not tasted bitter?".

as if to say, if you want to reap the rewards, you must pay the price.

is that an absolute?

over to you scott.

:p

[kfson]

If you train in the house of bitterness and suffering you are not being guided by spirit.
To engrain yourself in the house of bitterness and suffering is to feed the occupants of that house... they can be very nasty when provoked.
You may come upon a sparring partner who can loft mortar rounds into your house of bitterness and suffering by mere thought. The occupants in the house will become enraged, you will lose focus, and lose the battle.
Why, because you are not in the house of spirit.
You set up your own reality by your expectations. Expect suffering and bitterness from your kung fu practice and that is exactly what you will get in return.

[David Jamieson]

If you train in the house of bitterness and suffering you are not being guided by spirit.
To engrain yourself in the house of bitterness and suffering is to feed the occupants of that house... they can be very nasty when provoked.
You may come upon a sparring partner who can loft mortar rounds into your house of bitterness and suffering by mere thought. The occupants in the house will become enraged, you will lose focus, and lose the battle.
Why, because you are not in the house of spirit.
You set up your own reality by your expectations. Expect suffering and bitterness from your kung fu practice and that is exactly what you will get in return.

I believe you've already said this.

But many of us, myself included do not expect anything. I don't seek it, and I don't ask for it.

You're being cryptic with the rest. Doesn't really make much sense.

[Drake]

Sounds like a bunch of malarkey, if you ask me.

[kfson]

Sounds like a bunch of malarkey, if you ask me.

Ya, the old school types, like the Freemasons want to keep that info under their hats. Weeelllllll, they don't own that realm.

[Drake]

I used to believe that stuff when I was like, 19. Then again, I also thought I was invincible.

[kfson]

I used to believe that stuff when I was like, 19. Then again, I also thought I was invincible.

You sound like a good Freemason, congrats.

[Drake]

You sound like a good Freemason, congrats.

Why, because I don't believe what you say? Well, whatever. You sound like a DOLPHIN. :eek: There is absolutely no shortage of conspiracy theorists on this forum.

[David Jamieson]

lol. what does a good freemason sound like?

[Drake]

lol. what does a good freemason sound like?

The funny part is, I hardly know anything about this group. I've heard of them, but the name only makes me think of free foundation and plaster work.

[kfson]

The funny part is, I hardly know anything about this group. I've heard of them, but the name only makes me think of free foundation and plaster work.

AHA! Step Up!

[Drake]

They really ARE free masons?!

[Lucas]

id rather be a free mason than an jailed one, BOOYAA!!!!

man im killing...:o

[kfson]

They really ARE free masons?!

Yes, they work Pro Bono.

[Lucas]

I expect my kungfu to provide me with an outlet for my super human abilities and my godlike reflexes, as well as a platform to provide the women of the world an awe inspiring display of my rugged good looks and dashing manliness.

[monkey mind]

"Eat bitter" does not necessarily equal "expect bitterness and suffering". If you eat bitter it is with the expectation that through pushing yourself you will overcome your current limitations. We train not to break ourselves down but to build ourselves up. I'm sure there are hard cases out there who mistakenly tie their egos to a counter-productive regimen of "bitter" training, believing that they're becoming badasses. But then there are others who find that bitter itself can actually taste sweet. And this transformation is valuable not in the way it can help to defeat another, but in the way it can open up new possibilities to eliminate your own suffering.

[kfson]

"Eat bitter" does not necessarily equal "expect bitterness and suffering". If you eat bitter it is with the expectation that through pushing yourself you will overcome your current limitations. We train not to break ourselves down but to build ourselves up. I'm sure there are hard cases out there who mistakenly tie their egos to a counter-productive regimen of "bitter" training, believing that they're becoming badasses. But then there are others who find that bitter itself can actually taste sweet. And this transformation is valuable not in the way it can help to defeat another, but in the way it can open up new possibilities to eliminate your own suffering.

So, suffering will eliminate or reduce suffering?

[kfson]

Is this Eating Bitter concept Buddhist, Daoist, Zen, or all the previous three?

[Lucas]

the term eat bitter from what ive noticed is chinese, but the process of endurance and preseverance through suffering is world wide, found in nearly every culture, if not all.

most all people experience suffering at one point or another.

life is a forge, suffering is but one of those flames.


Takuan Soho, a famous zen master, is quoted as: "Your suffering will polish you"

[bawang]

eating bitter in kung fu is going through severe depression from long term 8 hours a day training
after 6 hours or more of training u dont feel the endorphin rush anymore you start to feel extremely depressed
this is why so many tourists only last 1 month at those shaolin wushu camps, theyre used to feeling good and having fun from training

[Lucas]

rofl. dont forget the depression from having no social life because you are obsessed with kungfu and spend all your free time doing that, then you look around when your 30 and realize you didnt live your 20s at all......or thats what ive heard anyway

[bawang]

no man im talking about a very real physical phenomenon that happens
its biological not mental
try training for 8 hours on a weekend and u will feel that depression hitting in after the endorphin rush is over
suicide in factory style wushu schools isnt that rare

[monkey mind]

So, suffering will eliminate or reduce suffering?

Sure, what's so hard to understand?. Not all suffering is created equal. I have a very different relationship to physical pain than I did before I spent a couple years at a muay thai camp. And as a result, I suffer much less now when I do experience pain. I also experienced many unpleasant, challenging hours in meditation retreats. But I've ended up in a better place for it.

[Lucas]

ya i know what your talking about, i was just trying to be funny. i fail :(

[Scott R. Brown]

change is the absolute and constant.

So the only thing that doesn't change is change itself?

Except that if change does not change then it doesn't change being change, which means change is NOT change because it is constantly, always, absolutely changing. Change cannot be change if it never changes being change!

Since change does not change if it is always changing, it cannot be an absolute either!:eek:;)

The only way change may "participate" in an absolute condition is if it is part of a rhythmic, alternating change/no-change continuum, such as illustrated by Yin-Yang! Thus the only true absolutes are paradoxes wherein a phenomena both "is" and "is not" at the same time, but also "is" and "is not" alternatively and also never "is" or "is not'!

Nagarjuna demonstrated this through an extensive logical treatise that almost no one reads in its entirety. The nut of it is something along the lines of, "not this, not that, not both, and not neither"!


also, besides the chrysalis and in relation to duality being our point of understanding, it has often been said that "How can one know sweet if they have not tasted bitter?".

as if to say, if you want to reap the rewards, you must pay the price.

is that an absolute?

over to you scott.

:p

It could be considered an absolute according to a specific context. Most of what we consider absolutes are limited to a context. So while heat "may" burn, heat does not "always" burn because it depends upon what the temperature is compared to what is being burned. These two variables define the context that determines the truth of the statement.

So while we could say that "the middle of a star will burn everything", this is a conditional statement too, meaning it also is not an absolute since it does not burn itself. Then we may try to say, "Well the middle of a star burns 'almost' everything" except that that too is probably not true. Since what constitutes 'everything' must be defined as well and is open to variable description.

The key point here is, "everything according to its context.....except when it isn't", lol!!!

What you are saying, however, is the same thing that is symbolized by Yin-Yang and taught by Buddhist philosophy, which states that "all phenomena are mutually arising", which means that all things 'depend' upon other things for their existence, that is, we cannot have a "this" without a "that" to contrast with it! "This" defines "That", and "That" defines "This"!

It is more simply put, "To know one thing, we must also have something that "it" isn't, something to contrast "it" with.

If there is only ONE we cannot know it because knowing is, "the perceiver perceiving the perceived". That automatically implies TWO, the perceiver and the perceived, although one could also say there must be three, because "the act of perceiving" is different from perceiver and perceived. Thus the "Tao Te Ching" says, "From three comes the ten thousand things!" (Chapter 42)

Some people might ask, "If, as some assert, all things are ONE, how can we 'know' ONE if we must divide ourselves into TWO in order to know anything.

The principles of Ch'an teach that there is no knowing to know! This is because as long as we think in terms of TWO we cannot know the unknowable. To know the unknowable we must let go of the "concept" of knowing. It is "knowing without knowing"!


Sounds like a bunch of malarkey, if you ask me.

My mama always said, "Malarkey is as marlarkey does!" Or was it, "Life is like a box of malarkey......you never know what your gonna get!":)


lol. what does a good freemason sound like?

Like a hammer hitting stone! It is somewhere between a 'DING' and a 'THUD' I think!:D


"Eat bitter" does not necessarily equal "expect bitterness and suffering". If you eat bitter it is with the expectation that through pushing yourself you will overcome your current limitations. We train not to break ourselves down but to build ourselves up. I'm sure there are hard cases out there who mistakenly tie their egos to a counter-productive regimen of "bitter" training, believing that they're becoming badasses. But then there are others who find that bitter itself can actually taste sweet. And this transformation is valuable not in the way it can help to defeat another, but in the way it can open up new possibilities to eliminate your own suffering.

Bitterness only exists if we choose for it to exist. While it is part of the human condition from one perspective, from another it does not exist at all.

Bitterness only occurs when we contrast what we have with what we don't have. If we do not contrast, bitterness disappears.;)

[monkey mind]

Bitterness only exists if we choose for it to exist. While it is part of the human condition from one perspective, from another it does not exist at all.

Bitterness only occurs when we contrast what we have with what we don't have. If we do not contrast, bitterness disappears.;)

I generally agree, though I'd flip it around. I think most people don't consciously choose the existence of bitterness. But we certainly can make a conscious choice not to identify with bitterness, not to seek for something outside our immediate experience.

Anyway, here in Thailand it's all about eating spicy, not bitter. And spiciness exists for sure:D

[Scott R. Brown]

I generally agree, though I'd flip it around. I think most people don't consciously choose the existence of bitterness. But we certainly can make a conscious choice not to identify with bitterness, not to seek for something outside our immediate experience.

Anyway, here in Thailand it's all about eating spicy, not bitter. And spiciness exists for sure:D

From another perspective, it could be said that bitterness is inherent within the world system because it is something we all experience from the birth, and must learn to transcend!

Since all phenomena are mutually arising one cannot transcend something that does not exist from the first, even though Hui-Neng stated, "from the first nothing exists". :eek:

NOW I'm really confused!!!:confused::confused::confused:

[KC Elbows]

So the only thing that doesn't change is change itself?

Except that if change does not change then it doesn't change being change, which means change is NOT change because it is constantly, always, absolutely changing. Change cannot be change if it never changes being change!


Your post changed the way I make change. Just putting in my .0125 cents.

[Lucas]

Your post changed the way I make change. Just putting in my .0125 cents.

good to see you follow inflation :D

[KC Elbows]

Follow your bliss, unless your bliss irritates me, in which case, don't.

I'm pretty sure that's what the thread starter was getting at.

Oh, and remember, it's all good.

[KC Elbows]

Starving in spirit is the man who, facing the thousand tacos of adversity, cannot lick 'em.

[KC Elbows]

Of course I'm quoting from Dr. Seuss' little understood taoist text, Good Yeast, Bad Yeast.

[taai gihk yahn]

Oh, and remember, it's all good.

except for balls-in-a-vice; that's not so good...:(

[Scott R. Brown]

Your post changed the way I make change. Just putting in my .0125 cents.

As was my purpose.....

......TO CONQUER.......


er change, the world!!!:)


Starving in spirit is the man who, facing the thousand tacos of adversity, cannot lick 'em.

Hey....you must be psychic, I am just on my way out to Taco Bell!
I'll let you guys know how it went when I get back!


except for balls-in-a-vice; that's not so good...:(

Says who???:p

[taai gihk yahn]

Says who???:p
not the guy tightening the vice, that's for certain...

[KC Elbows]

except for balls-in-a-vice; that's not so good...:(

For ball vice manufacturers, it's profit. Will you pick up the pieces when the ball vice bubble bursts?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Starving in spirit is the man who, facing the thousand tacos of adversity, cannot lick 'em.

Nothing wrong with taco:
http://cdn.holytaco.com/www/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/pure_dee_sexy_sex_holy_taco_bikini_boobs_nude_tits _1.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nothing at all:
http://images8.cafepress.com/product/95628488v6_480x480_Front_Color-White.jpg

[Scott R. Brown]

For ball vice manufacturers, it's profit. Will you pick up the pieces when the ball vice bubble bursts?

I am sure we could find someone :rolleyes: to provide a stimulus package to save the industry!:eek:


Nothing wrong with taco:
http://cdn.holytaco.com/www/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/pure_dee_sexy_sex_holy_taco_bikini_boobs_nude_tits _1.jpg

Now THAT is a stimulus package!!!!:D

May I have mine with HOT sauce please?:p

[KC Elbows]

Which reminds me, I actually like bitter melon, is that BS?

Will my liking bitter melon lead to actual bitter melon?

You know, it's a problem I just can't solve. Still, this 'failure', it culls my ego; everything I say doesn't have to be great. If I were, every moment, the best at this, what would that gain me? Nothing. Realizing this, I can read what others contribute, growing and learning from an experience that I initially might have disliked.

I think that's what the thread starter is getting at. I finally get it. I'm going to pray that Buddha do good things for he who started this thread for helping me to see. Maybe I'll give some money to the poor.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Melons? there is most to life than melons
http://www.muffslap.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/sexy-cowgirl-butts.jpg

[Scott R. Brown]

'sniff'....'sniff'......god bless sanjuro_ronin....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Of course, melons to have a certain appeal...

http://208.83.61.98/wp-content/uploads/gf-melons.jpg

[KC Elbows]

I'm manifesting bitter melon.

[Scott R. Brown]

I'm manifesting bitter melon.

aside....you are supposed to keep that to yourself!!!!:eek:

[KC Elbows]

you are supposed to keep that to yourself!!!!

I'm pretty sure that's not what it's for.

[Scott R. Brown]

I'm pretty sure that's not what it's for.

I just meant it isn't to be ANNOUNCED to the world like it is your BIGGEST accomplishment!:D

[KC Elbows]

I just meant it isn't to be ANNOUNCED to the world like it is your BIGGEST accomplishment!:D

You're just bitter.:D

[Scott R. Brown]

You're just bitter.:D

LOL!!!! Yeah, that my BIGGEST acomplisments can't compete!

[KC Elbows]

LOL!!!! Yeah, that my BIGGEST acomplisments can't compete!

If you would just manifest a little less bitter, your accomplishments could be better, not bitter, forever free from the bitter bite of this BS. Better?:D

[Lucas]

just suprised no ones posted this yet.

http://nrvliving.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c36d553ef00e55399efed8833-320wi

[sanjuro_ronin]

dude...
http://www.mizzeviee.com/images/AshleyLawrence4.jpg

[kfson]

There's enough silicone (fake bewbs) on this thread to waterproof the Exxon Valdez.

bitterness and bewb envy = silicone investment

[sanjuro_ronin]

There's enough silicone (fake bewbs) on this thread to waterproof the Exxon Valdez.

bitterness and bewb envy = silicone investment

Floatation devices are life saving devices.

[kfson]

Floatation devices are life saving devices.

You too can look good on the beach on your 80th birthday!
The bitterness just disappears.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/fashion-beauty/30902d1226981226-how-silicone-implants-look-when-you-08velha.jpg

[David Jamieson]

oh god, please hurry with the eye cleaner SR

STAT!!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

oh god, please hurry with the eye cleaner SR

STAT!!!!

http://xectrik.net/images/motivationalposters/curves-poster.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://xectrik.net/images/motivationalposters/mormon-poster.jpg

[Scott R. Brown]

If you would just manifest a little less bitter, your accomplishments could be better, not bitter, forever free from the bitter bite of this BS. Better?:D

Much better bitter because badder bitter bites the big boy!:D

[David Jamieson]

http://xectrik.net/images/motivationalposters/curves-poster.jpg

mmm indeed! and also, you can't have curves without Pi!

Pi is also good. :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://xectrik.net/images/motivationalposters/perfect-picture-poster.jpg

[David Jamieson]

yay!


I repeat, yay!

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://xectrik.net/images/motivationalposters/parties-poster.jpg

[Lokhopkuen]

This forum IS NYCE:D

[Lokhopkuen]

[QUOTE=kfson;983613]You too can look good on the beach on your 80th birthday!
The bitterness just disappears.

Ashida Kim http://ashidakim.com/pics/photo.gif and His Shaolin Ninja (http://www.dojopress.com/memberships.html) have been dispatched to your location in retribution for your transgression. There is a retractable Naginata with your name written all over it buddy boy;)

[Kansuke]

My free will trumps your destiny.



You don't understand either one.

[David Jamieson]

You don't understand either one.

you need to get out into the world and away from you provincial and isolated ameri-centric view. It is this willful ignorance that you cling too that is your greatest downfall and will be your undoing as you attempt to move forward but continually find yourself in a state of digression that you can't break free of.

I think that maybe you don't want to break free because you are stuck in a moment in time where yo have just gotten over a moment of trauma.

I don't know exactly how you were hurt, or who it was that scarred your fragile mind in such a way. But I have to say, trolling forums and not losing that extra weight is really not helping you much. And stop with all the masturbating too, that's just bad for your chi, which is real by the way, even though your bitterness towards those with talent makes you not want to believe it and throw tantrums when being taught about it.

I hope you get well soon.

remember not to scratch your ass too much either because your mom thinks all those racing stripes in your shorts are gross. And I agree with her.

[David Jamieson]

Also, stop being such a mincing, prancing and capering little gheywad.

thanks. :p

[Kansuke]

You can't hide your essential ignorance behind all that silliness.


Maybe when you're older you'll understand something, maybe not.



















...probably not

[David Jamieson]

You can't hide your essential ignorance behind all that silliness.


Maybe when you're older you'll understand something, maybe not.














...probably not

zzzzz.

who cares?

Age doesn't magically bring wisdom. So, don't get your hopes up.
:p

[kfson]

[QUOTE=kfson;983613]You too can look good on the beach on your 80th birthday!
The bitterness just disappears.

Ashida Kim http://ashidakim.com/pics/photo.gif and His Shaolin Ninja (http://www.dojopress.com/memberships.html) have been dispatched to your location in retribution for your transgression. There is a retractable Naginata with your name written all over it buddy boy;)


Everyone should read:
http://ashidakim.com/****list.html