What do you Mantis guys know about this?

[Lost_Disciple]

Okay, my mantis training time was short, but I think I've seen the 7 Star Broadsword form before.

I was looking at this thread:
http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=126197291&f=340190991&m=9901933713
About a bunch of schools in California that teach some Manchu art with a bunch of different animals. One that they teach is mantis (the others being bear, mongoose, tiger, cobra, white crane, and dragon).

My first thought was, "oh, more frauds"; but then I saw this clip:
http://www.kungfuaerobics.com/ra/Shifu_volpendesta.mpg
Some of those moves I think I remember seeing in the 7* mantis broadsword form.

Can any of you mantis guys, 7* or otherwise, confirm if this is a mantis form?

What do you think about it? Real? Stolen? Or just a mimick job?

Here's the link for the school:
http://www.mooresshoushu.com/about.shtml

Just curious.

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/4_3/images/gk1.jpg
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

[BeiTangLang]

Stylistic diferences from our kwoon, but the form is Ying Ching Dan Dao.

"In the name of peace, destroy your enemies!"-Unknown

[bamboo_ leaf]

no comment

[BeiTangLang]

Come on,...give us your comments,....no comment means you wrote something for no reason & doubt that you did.
BTL

"In the name of peace, destroy your enemies!"-Unknown

[LawClansman]

Hi Eric,
BTL is right. Yin Ching Dahn Dao. You probably saw Jeff do it many times in the past. It looks OK but a little different from ours. Also the power distribution/exertion is different so again its just OK.
Lots of people know this form as their are two books written on it. The original Wong Hon Fun book and a latter translation into english by Crandal I think. And of course Jon Funk has a tape on the form which give access to non sevenstar practitioners.
It is not our best Dahn Dao form but is higher somewhat than the Pa Kua Dao.
Although the Pa Kua Dao is originally a Jing Mo set, the angles it teaches are quite interesting as not only a sword form but the footwork can be used in hand techniques as well. There is a hand set that does use this type of footwork called the Pa Kua Bo. Nothing to do with the Pa Kua system at all. Just similar in name.
The Yin Ching Dao is still a good broadsword set to have and practice and it contains good broadsword work.

Sifu Carl

[smogwax]

Correct all, This is a Brandon Li form interpreted a little differently than 7* would be used to. (please excuse the spelling of Brandon Li if it is wrong) There is no claim that the form is Shou Shu lost_disciple it is just an interpretation by one of our black belts using our stlye of body motion.

(nod to bamboo_leaf)

Regards,

Eric Ô¿Ô¬

[-N-]

Eric,

Brandon Lee... Bruce Lee's son?
Brendan Lai... the Praying Mantis sifu??!

-N-

[smogwax]

Sifu Lia came to our studio and taught that form to our black belts. Sorry for the confusion.

Eric Ô¿Ô¬

[smogwax]

Sifu Lai,
I just can't spell today..
Again, my humble apologies
Regards,

Eric Ô¿Ô¬

[-N-]

Eric,

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

When was it that Sifu Lai visited your school to teach that form?

What was the reasoning for using a different interpretation of the movements? It definately is different than what I've seen before.

regards,
-N-

[Lost_Disciple]

Hi Sifu Carl :)
Last few days have been weird, i didn't check the forums. My sihing learned that form and i was about to start on that one or ba gua darn dao before i left austin.

smog
As far as my interest in that clip, my other post on the other thread about it being "stealing" may be harsh. However, I would like to point out that the idea of presenting information obtained through a seminar with a master of another school/system is a debateable issue.

So even if Lai Sifu showed up and gave explicit instruction it would still be a questionable practise to present such info as your own (on the web site) without proper labeling & description. More than just a set of physical movements; the mantis broadsword is based on certain principles. These principles must be conveyed in order to gain proper depth & understanding of the form. The principles in question are from the seven star mantis system & some of which are core principles at the heart of the system.

Now I know mantis is supposed to be in the Shou Shu cirriculum, but it is labled "manchu mantis'. If you consider the fact that one of the oft-considered origins of the "seven stars of mantis" and the Wong Lung story; is of an anti-manchu revolutionary, you will realize that seven star mantis could not be associated with "manchu mantis". The birthplace of mantis is in a Chinese province far from Manchuria.

In this case the advertising would be incorrect; possibly this school is presenting principles and forms of another style as their own; OR they do not have the requisite depth in the form to claim it as their own. In either case something does not fit.

Now I'm a little nobody. Hardly qualified to speak for seven star mantis, shou shu, or even traditional kung fu. I'm in-between schools at the moment and am not even a mantis practisioner any longer. But I am intelligent enough to know an inconsistancy when i see one.

I think shifu weaver accused me of "stealing from his website" on that other thread. I feel this is unfair as i just posted a link to his website; which in internet terms is free advertising. Instead of pilfering from his website, i gave his website added traffic and exposure. I gave his website hits, and did not steal information.

I hope given my total inexperience, and my "outsider" status in the traditional cma community; that i have not overstepped my bounds by commenting on this issue. But i feel that; when possible, steps should be taken to try to maintain authenticity and accurate advertising.

If I were advertising on a web site for a taiji school; i wouldn't present postures of myself doing the tiger/crane form from Hung Gar- even if Wong Fei Hung himself taught me that form for an extended period of time and even if i'd modified the form to be consistent with my taiji movement. Maybe that's just me, i don't know.

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/4_3/images/gk1.jpg
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

[smogwax]

Our website is built for and maintained by students. The videos are not advertised on the site. The only way to get to the videos is to click an unlabel link through the fist. So we are not advertising anything. Shun Shifu Weaver did not accuse you of stealing, he was refering to the gentlemen who posted the image of Shun Shifu Clark and made disparriging remarks about him. I highly doubt that person wants to back up his comments to an 7th degree black belt. I have since removed the image and it is no longer an issue. We have never tried to represent ourselves as 7star, we are Shou Shu. Any 7star practitioner who views the dao set will see the inherent differences so I am not worried about misrepresenting anything.

Thank You for your comments,

Eric Ô¿Ô¬

[Red Masque]

Regardless of "flavor",..or whatever,....It is the same form from "Manchuria"?? I highly doubt it. Form the south at all?? Once again,..highly doubt it. Swiped a 7* form because someone needed a sword set? probrably. What other "Manchurian" Northern systems have been "re-flavored" LOL!
Sorry,..this really is a troll.... please disregard! LOL!