Sanda is dead in TX as it is in CA?

[xcakid]

Seems ICMAC tourney here in Dallas may not be able to get the Sanda fights going. Based on TX law of not being able to have an elimination tournament and licensing issues. Although they may be able to do a fight card tourney of sorts, I do not know how that is going to work.

Anyways, this is sad news. Bad enough there aren't many CMA tourneys to be had. Now it seems the ones we have will be crippled due to the state's medling. :(

[MasterKiller]

All promoters have to do to keep San Da going is get sanctioning from the boxing commission, which is the smart thing to do, and to just have 1 fight per day, which is also the smart thing to do.

[Pork Chop]

imagine if something like taiji legacy had a bracket a day like golden gloves....
that'd be pretty awesome

[xcakid]

imagine if something like taiji legacy had a bracket a day like golden gloves....
that'd be pretty awesome

Awesome, yes...long week, yes...
when people have to take vacations to compete, that would suck. :(

[Pork Chop]

Awesome, yes...long week, yes...
when people have to take vacations to compete, that would suck. :(

well taiji legacy/kung fu legends runs for like a week anyway, right?
every night could be "fight night", with a bracket from every weight class fought out each night.
I don't think anybody has more than 4 fights to win their division anyway, so it might be 4 nights maximum.
The first night would probably be the only long one, with 8 fights max per division.

[xcakid]

2.5 days actually. Taiji Legacy starts Friday afternoon with registrations and seminars.

Although a seperate event in conjunction with the tournament would work.

[GLW]

And all of this is surprising to you?

Come on, the information has been out there.

I hardly keep up with Sanda/Sanshou laws. The AAU CMA has another person who was SUPPOSED to do that.

However, shortly after the Texas law was passed, I asked the question of that person as to how the new law would impact competitions in Texas.

The answer I got revealed that neither he nor most of the people involved with any of the competitions in Texas had taken the time or put out the effort to READ THE LAW.

I DID!

So, roughly 3 years ago, I informed a number of people...and not just the AAU but other groups as well, that such competitions in Texas were illegal and what the pertinent parts of the law were.

So...we are just now finding out about it...not really.

This movement started in New York and California. Part of it was due to the various Boxing Commissions wanting to control it all and get money. It was actually an issue back in 1995 in Baltimore, Maryland when the IWuF Sanshou competitions were held...and had anyone from the government or boxing commission shown up, the event would have been shut down.

It continued on and got strength with the back alley "Fight Clubs" that started in a seedy way and then made their way onto college campuses...where the young and dumb and full of *** were more than happy to beat each other senseless with not so much as a person trained in CPR and first aid in residence.

So, in reaction to the one or two accidents and horror stories about the uncontrolled full contact matches - the Texas law came to be.

Due to head trauma, groups like the AAU dropped their boxing divisions and then outlawed all full contact events. BUT...since they are now outlawed all over a number of states, this is quickly becoming the rule rather than the exception.

Changing it back...first, you need to take on the Boxing commissions or show them that these events are no threat to their money.

Then you have to show some level of safety and do something to make the bakc alley events excluded from being legal.

And then, in 5 or 10 years, you MIGHT be able to turn back the clock on this.

[David Jamieson]

Sanda's dead?

Does that mean the easter bunny and tooth fairy are dead too?

[taai gihk yahn]

Does that mean the easter bunny and tooth fairy are dead too?
it was nasty - TF started out w/a wand to the eye, and as he lurched forward, EB sunk his little fangs into her neck, and before the ref could step in, pfft!

[xcakid]

And all of this is surprising to you?




Not really. What surprises me is the ease of how this came to be. Much like the right to keeo and bear arms get erroded via a back door legislation, similar to what they tried to tack on the healthcare bill.

The wussification of this United States continues.

This is upsetting, but since I have professed in the past that I am hanging up my gloves and transitioning to becoming a forms dancer............... :mad: this still ****es me off.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Look on the bright side, at least there are other combat sports options in your area. Personally, I would love to not have to go out of state to compete, but in WV, MMA, kickboxing, sanda, pretty much everything except boxing is not legal. The reason why is simple greed from the boxing comission, they don't want any hands in their cookie jar. Kickboxing and MMA are illegal, yet Toughman Contests are held in every city where any out of shape, untrained slob can show up that night and fight. Sucks but it is what it is.

[GLW]

Actually that death knell is for MMA as well - at least in Texas.

For any full contact event, unless it is something like a fraternity - and limited to only the frat members... all full contact events fall under the umbrella of the new law.

This means that any full contact event that starts out and does A fights B, C fights D, then the winners of those two fights fight each other...as in Elimination Style - are illegal.

Carded or multi-event tournaments where cards are determined by a previous event ARE legal provided the promoter and the competitors have the proper license, insurance, etc...

Now, if someone were to step up and organize all of the various competitions to work with a 1 year schedule where competitors fought in multiple events, it might work. Which would mean the first event of the year would have a large number of people fighting - 1 time. and the final event of the year would truly be the finals determining the year's winner.

Such a thing COULD work - but requires a level of unity in all martial art events that is nowhere near a reality at this time.

[xcakid]

Or gather the CMA community into one sanctioning body. Which would never happen. :(

[GLW]

Making this come to be :

Well, first you have a group of people who would like gambling in Texas that get together with some boxing folks in Texas and then get together with national boxing entities...and you have a group that has a financial interest to close the door to all events EXCEPT theirs.

Then you get the MMA pros on board...and you have ALL of the bigger money interests lined up to try to get a law passed.

Next, you have one or two 'expose' newscasts and one or two "Good college kids" injured in a poorly run or back alley event....and soon you have the do-gooder types jumping on the bandwagon to protect our youth. They add in the idea that kids under 18 are also involved - even though (and I am not sure about boxing...but) no martial art event with full contact that I know of allows anyone under 18 to compete.

Now you have the money interests and the "let's protect our youth" group banded together...and with those two driving the train, you could get playing pool at the YMCA made illegal.

[xcakid]

So Sanda is dead in TX.

[MasterKiller]

Actually that death knell is for MMA as well - at least in Texas.

For any full contact event, unless it is something like a fraternity - and limited to only the frat members... all full contact events fall under the umbrella of the new law.

This means that any full contact event that starts out and does A fights B, C fights D, then the winners of those two fights fight each other...as in Elimination Style - are illegal.

Carded or multi-event tournaments where cards are determined by a previous event ARE legal provided the promoter and the competitors have the proper license, insurance, etc...

Now, if someone were to step up and organize all of the various competitions to work with a 1 year schedule where competitors fought in multiple events, it might work. Which would mean the first event of the year would have a large number of people fighting - 1 time. and the final event of the year would truly be the finals determining the year's winner.

Such a thing COULD work - but requires a level of unity in all martial art events that is nowhere near a reality at this time.

Sorry, but this law will not affect MMA. The MMA tournaments we've been in all have their fights AT LEAST a week apart. Look at the larger circuits, like Bellator, to see how it should be run.

IF you are fighting full contact, more than one fight per day is dumb. Plain and simple.

[GLW]

The impact on the MMA circuit is that all fighters must be licensed and all promoters must have their event licensed. Basically, it just means the cost goes up for the competitor and promoter and then this cost is passed on to the spectator. It also means that the unprofessional events without proper insurance, safety, medical staff, etc... can be shut down.

But barring that, you are correct.

In principal, I agree with you about limiting the fights for a competitor to a time period that allows the fighter's body to recover and for any unknown injuries to manifest themselves.

This has never been the way it was done for Full Contact Karate, Sanda, Sanshou... For those events, the bottom line of being able to have it all happen in a single weekend with enough time for the competitors to catch a plane home - and so the promoter did not have to rent a location more than one time...and did not have to plan for a long haul...has been how it was done.

That is not saying this is a good thing. I personally never understood it. In fact, the middleweight competitor for Sanshou for the US team back in 1995, when competing in Baltimore told me that he had something like 5 fights in the 3 or 4 days. His first fight ended with some bad bruises, the second or third, if memory serves, ended with him having to tape his hands due to a hairline fracture...and when he was done, he also had a concussion.

Great level of safety there, huh :(

[GLW]

I was more or less referring to the amateur MMA events that are run more like open fight club competitions. We have had a couple of those in Houston. From what I was told by people who attended one or two of those, the medical staff and other safety concerns were lacking...and it was more of a sign up and people fought....

[MasterKiller]

the impact on the mma circuit is that all fighters must be licensed and all promoters must have their event licensed. Basically, it just means the cost goes up for the competitor and promoter and then this cost is passed on to the spectator. It also means that the unprofessional events without proper insurance, safety, medical staff, etc... Can be shut down. this is a good thing!

It costs $25 to get a 1-year boxing license. And blood tests are free if you donate blood. Hardly much burden on fighters, and certainly less than THE ENTRY FEE for most san shou tournaments.

[xcakid]

The thing with kung fu tournaments is that most that compete are weekend warriors.
1) Someone traveling to Dallas to compete once will not want to go through all this licensing for the state of Texas. Specially if they don't have to in their on state.
2) Promoters will not want to pay the state boxing commission to put on an event and hire their officials for the fight(required in TX) for one tournament.

So that kills Sanda in this state.

[MasterKiller]

The thing with kung fu tournaments is that most that compete are weekend warriors.
1) Someone traveling to Dallas to compete once will not want to go through all this licensing for the state of Texas. Specially if they don't have to in their on state.

The liscenses are handed out the night of the fights. You pay $25, get your picture taken, fill out a sheet of paper and BAM, you are registered. Again, this is no extra burden



2) Promoters will not want to pay the state boxing commission to put on an event and hire their officials for the fight(required in TX) for one tournament. If MMA promoters and Muay Thai promoters can do it, so can San Shou promoters. The real issue is that San Shou promoters like the current system because they make the money off the fighters instead of having to actually PROMOTE events to sell tickets.

Why on earth does it cost $80!!!! to fight a San Shou match with no insurance and no boxing commission when Muay Thai and MMA fighters don't get charged anything and yet have fully sanctioned matches under standard boxing commission regulations?

[Pork Chop]

Why on earth does it cost $80!!!! to fight a San Shou match with no insurance and no boxing commission when Muay Thai and MMA fighters don't get charged anything and yet have fully sanctioned matches under standard boxing commission regulations?

don't forget also...
-no gear provided

if that $80 doesn't go for sanctioning/licensing, fighter insurance, onsite physician, or equipment, then where the is all that money going?
this is what smells so fishy about the Kung Fu Legends/Taiji legacy event.

[GLW]

The fact that you can get the license right there on the spot reveals this whole thing for what it is - a way for Texas to get money and for some state commission to control things.

If SAFETY were there concern, they would require not just a blood test (granted, it IS good to know if the guy you are fighting is HIV positive - but get real, a person cannot test positive until several weeks after they are truly infectious with HIV)

There should be some form of heart test - a stress test type of thing as well as some neurological test.

With just a simple blood test you have not closed the door to someone having a seizure or heart attack in the ring - and that being a person that a simple checkup and set of tests - required yearly - would avoid.

In the Sanshou events that Jeff Bolt held in Florida, Houston, etc... each fighter was required to at least go through a cursory medical checkup with weigh in.

These new laws are an obvious crock...with the only real safety addition is the disallowing of the elimination style events where fighters have to fight multiple times in a day. That is a good thing...but the rest is just blowing smoke.

[MasterKiller]

The fact that you can get the license right there on the spot reveals this whole thing for what it is - a way for Texas to get money and for some state commission to control things. The license is just to actually be allowed to compete in events. You still have to pass a physical, administered onsite. Blood work is also required, but can be faxed in from the Blood Bank, like I already said. All of this PROTECTS THE FIGHTERS.

Neurological tests, at your own expense, are required yearly for all competitors over 35 to PROTECT THE FIGHTERS.

You also get **** tested onsite, and if you come up positive for illegal drugs, you get a 45-day ban to PROTECT THE FIGHTERS.

The boxing commision also keeps records so that if you get KO'd or TKO'd, you can't fight again for a specified amount of time TO PROTECT THE FIGHTER.

They also track your record in sanctioned events so people don't lie about their records to get favorable mismatches, which PROTECTS THE FIGHTERS.

Sanctioned events MUST carry insurance. They MUST have onsite medical staff.

The boxing commission monitors your hand wrapping to make sure it's solid and that nothing illegal gets wrapped into your hands TO PROTECT THE FIGHTERS.

The boxing commission monitors the locker room to make sure no one is sucking down caffeine drinks or sniffing nasal spray to give them an unfair advantage TO PROTECT THE FIGHTERS.

And oh yeah! FIGHTERS DON'T HAVE TO PAY $80 TO F@CKING FIGHT!

That sounds like a lot, but I've been to Taiji Legacy where you stand around for 9 hours waiting for them to get their sh1t together so you can fight. We show up at an MMA fight 4 hours before fight time, and it all goes smoothly. Really, if you haven't been in a sanctioned fight, or even been in the lockerroom, stfu already.

[GLW]

You have a problem...?

I was actually supporting the fact that the full contact kung fu venues were poorly done and the safety aspect were woefully incomplete.

As for the MMA stuff, that is your thing. You have to answer to a Boxing Commission. Which MAY be OK for now in Texas but they all have a very bad track record of SCREWING the fighters.

The well done MMA events may indeed run that way but there are plenty of venues that do not follow the rules. These are typically associated with colleges and fraternities. They should be outed and then made to follow the safety guidelines as well.

But you missed the point - the passage of the law in Texas was VERY marginally about safety and mostly about money and control. Unfortunately, THAT is what a great deal of Texas Law has always been about.