choylifut

[knocturnal_fang]

hey im new here and im a choylifut white sash 2 id like some tips on how to improve my kicking balance because when i throw side or back kicks in rapid succession i always lose balance. any help would be appreciated thanks :D

[taai gihk yahn]

hey im new here and im a choylifut white sash 2 id like some tips on how to improve my kicking balance because when i throw side or back kicks in rapid succession i always lose balance. any help would be appreciated thanks :D

one way is to start by breaking up the skill: work on single leg balance without throwing any kicks; you can do it statically with eyes open or eyes closed (this develops pure proprioception / body awareness, as opposed to having a visual assist) - you can also try it on a variety of surfaces: solid level floor, progress to things like thick carpeting, grass, uneven terrain, sand, or things like an air-filled balance disc or bosu ball; you can also add in a small hop on the weight-bearing leg: basically, the fewer variables, the easier: the hardest would be hopping on a balance disc w/eyes closed;

you can then do the same thing adding a single kick - start by throwing the kick slowly or even just extending it and holding it at various points of the range; eventually increase the speed, and then add the spins (you may want to do the spins w/out the kicks as well)

also, you may notice that one side is easier to balance on, and that spinning in one direction is easier than the other; one trick that can be a big help is this: practice the good side first, and to the point of moderate fatigue; then test the other side again - you might be surprised how much better the "bad" side got just by practicing the good side (there is a neurological basis for this, it is a concept used clinically with good effect much of the time);

the important thing about balance training is to understand one thing: if you contact something with your hand, even the tip of a singe finger, to help you stay upright, you are using a COMPLETELY different muscle firing sequence to stay upright than if you balance w/out using your hands; so if at all possible, try to not use any sort of external upper extremity support, as that is not training the same balance response that you would use when not holding on to something

[David Jamieson]

who gave you that white sash?

if they're gonna give you pretty pieces of silk to wear, they should also give you instruction on how to wear it with style!

lol.

standard response is "ask your sifu".

If you go back to your club and tell your sifu that so & so over on th kfm forums told you that "x is the way", you are gonna tick him off and sabotage your own learning construct which you have only begun to build.

walk before you run man! I know it's exciting, but when you're 70 and you can still hand someone their ass, then, you will be really excited about how you spent your life! :)

[hskwarrior]

I'm still shocked at the idea of gung fu people having colored sashes like karate people.

Our lineage has never used a belt ranking system to gauge our progress.

[CLFNole]

I'm still shocked at the idea of gung fu people having colored sashes like karate people.

Our lineage has never used a belt ranking system to gauge our progress.

I think only a few do, thankfully we never did either.

[Shaolindynasty]

We've done it off and on at the ng family chinese martial arts association. It does have it's benifits as far as organizing and creating a structured learning syllabus. As long as you done recklessly throw out ranks, the sash system could help establish standards of quality.

I didn't learn Choy Lay fut under the sash system but I am running my school under it

[Drake]

GM Doc Fai Wong does the same thing. It really does make sense. Otherwise, how do you quantify anything? Like said before, it provides a syllabus and organization to what could turn into haphazard, unstructured training.

Sometimes, change can be good.

[CLFNole]

There are other ways to do and I understand why people do it that way especially in the U.S. That being said I like the fact there is some tradition still left and the entire school having one color sash is one of them.

In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter becuase nothing is truly traditional or original anymore.

[Shaolindynasty]

everyone whereing the same sash isn't really traditional either. Traditionally there is no real uniform.

At the Ng Family Chinese Martial Arts Association there is technically a sash ranking system but since no one wear sashes, people are ranked by certificate. The ranks only determine what material should be learned and not the students place at the school that still follows the old confucian model(sifu, si hing, sidai etc.)

For the schools that don't have a sash ranking system, is there a structured curriculum or testing etc.

[chusauli]

We don't wear sashes, but since our enrollment is so small, everyone knows who has learned what.

[hskwarrior]

ahhhh....i like the old school way of doing things. the belt or sash may indicate your progress within the lineage....but it really has no bearing IMHO on skill level, or the ability to duke it out on the streets in need be.

[Shaolindynasty]

you're right your "rank" doesnt detrimine your success in self defense. It's a tool to use for organized teaching. If you stuck completely to tradition you wouldn't even have a structured class and would just teach people when they came in and only if you felt like it. Some traditions are better changed to be made more streamlined and effecient.

[hskwarrior]

if you're running a commercial school i understand where you are coming from. schools have to do what they have to toretain students. My biggest fear about sash rankings is that it promotes false security. i have friends who are 3rd degree black belts and higher who were awesome in the studio. had all the routines down, the fighting forms apps and all were done expertly. but, when it came to real life street situations, i've seen them freeze and come to instant realization that they wasted their time thinking their black belts were a sign of mastery.

My other issue is having a 12 year old black belt or sash...it just isn't right in my book.

[Shaolindynasty]

Any ranking system that is used in a martial arts system doesn't garuantee success in a real fighting senario. Either does training without it. I think your friend freezeing had less to to do with the fact that he trained under a belt system and more to do with the fact that he hasn't been in a fight.

Also, just to clarify, student retention has nothing to do with using belt/ranking systems either. It's simply one way to organize your curriculum with a way to signify where you are in the curiculum. the Lee Koon Hung association is much more successful comercially than my school "Hung Sing Martial Arts Association" and they don't colored sashes.

BTW, how do you organize the material taught in your school and how do you decide when a student is qualified to learn it?

[hskwarrior]

we have set markers within our lineage. for example, Cheung Kuen is our basic form. Sup Ji Kau da is our mid level form, and Um Ying and others mark the higher levels in our lineage.

but we do have a structure....what i refer to as a traditional structure because many old sifu's can relate to how we are teaching our system. we're not a "KUNG FU" mill or anything. so we don't feel the need to have a colored sash. The colors of our school is red and white. this has been so going back to Fut San. The traditinal gung fu uniform was a sash, not for rank, a tshirt with the schools name on it and gung fu pants. thats a traditional uniform.

our school going back to Lau Bun was always about an individuals skills, and IMHO a ranking sash system only mass produces students. i can't be mad at someone who is using gung fu as a career to do what he has to to survive.

well, let me say this....all i've seen was commercial CLF schools use a colored sash system....are there other systems out there like wing chun, white crane, etc, etc, using a sash ranking system?

[Hebrew Hammer]

Back to original post....when I started out I found that picking a focal point away from my body helped me with my balance...it helped me to relax and not focus on being unbalanced...I think when you're new, you're tense and tend to throw too much energy or weight into your kicks. Relax power will come...

[Drake]

Ranking systems do not imply a KF mill. Back when I actually had a teacher nearby, he had a ranking system, and it was hard as hell to get anywhere within it. Albeit, the difficulty level ran off students, but he was solid proof that a ranking structure does not equal easy advancement.

[hskwarrior]

Ranking systems do not imply a KF mill.

entitled to my opinion. in Kung Fu where there is traditionally no ranking system it does.

What constitutes the rank of master? without the familial aspect or age, how does one become a GRAND MASTER? is there a ranking for that? what is the criteria for it?

if and when i ever decide to start a ranking system, it would be very very strict. reaching the black sash would NEVER happen to a student under the age of 21, and you'd have to prove you are worthy of the rank. i agree to certain systems that have very strict procedures and make it hard to achieve....that will make sure the student is truly qualified.

[hskwarrior]

Relax power will come...

i totally agree with what you said on that.

[Drake]

FYI... here is GM Doc Fai Wong's ranking system...

http://plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/ranking.html

[hskwarrior]

That ranking system color code is the same as karate

[Shaolindynasty]

hskwarrior- Is the Ng Family Chinese Martial Arts Association a "KF mill"? Because Sifu Sam Ng has used colored ranking sashes off and on for years.

[hskwarrior]

hskwarrior- Is the Ng Family Chinese Martial Arts Association a "KF mill"? Because Sifu Sam Ng has used colored ranking sashes off and on for years.

i don't have an answer for you since i don't know how your school operates.

SHAOLINDYNASTY : ok, so what if i said yes? IT would just be an opinion and not an insult. but if your school is ran like a Mc Dojo, then i'd HAVE to say yes.

but like i said. i never trained under your sifu or at your school, so i can't answer that. however some schools are very appearant about this.

[Shaolindynasty]

You've met us and know what we can do, right? So does using a colored sash take away anything from properly trained skills?

BTW, the school is ran like a traditional martial arts school. My sifu is the furthest thing from a mcdojo as you can get. He and his son simply organized a curriculum in an attempt to be organized and maintain a specific standard as the school and our extended family grows.

[hskwarrior]

i've seen you fight and your classmate as well. my student took your sifu's seminar as i watched. your sifu's approach is similar to that of my sifu.

to answer your question....no a colored sash does not take away from skill. my only issue is we as gung fu people should have a very rigid ranking system so that we may produce the best we can. personally i didn't even consider becoming a sifu until 20 years later.

Forms are outdated now in retrospect in light of MMA and the UFC. to me thats a good thing. my only issue is that i don't feel a sash is a true indicator of skill as it may infer.

[hskwarrior]

i respect that. as i once told your classmate....he had the Sow Choy from HELL. i loved it. i love seeing good fighters. hear what i'm saying. its others who talk more than show.

[Shaolindynasty]

hskwarrior- it sounds like your issue isn't with the colored sashes themselves but with the intent that they are used.

If done in the right way developing a structured ranking system can help organize and maintain our teachings for the next generation. Without some kind of structure it's easy for some elements to become lost.

I have trained both ways, with and without a ranking structure. I see pros and cons to both. As an instructor I taught fairly rigid under the ranking to maintain my sifu's standard. Then later I didn't adhere as strickly to the ranking system he and his son set up. I found that when I didn't follow it as an instructor it was more difficult to make sure all the student had the required skills to build upon for the next setof skills. So now i am back to the ranking structure. In my case it's not so much for students but for me as their instructor.

[Shaolindynasty]

I think I should clarify my position here.

I am not saying everyone should employ sash ranking systems and I am not saying that it is the only way to organize a ma system. There are other ways.

I just think we shouldn't look down on someone for using it. Just like they shouldn't look down on you for not using it.

[hskwarrior]

ok. good reply.

i guess you can say i follow a structure as well. I am one of the few who continue to teach in the manner of my sifu, but in addition to my own understanding. i don't like the sash thing, but i do promote a certificate idea. We have beginner, intermediate, and advanced structure....just not in a sense of commercial school style.

now, when i teach, i do structure it. First thing in my school is "let me see you punch and kick" if you can't even punch correctly, then why should you advance? i've also restructured my teaching to having my students know how to use what's in the form prior to learning it. some students just NEED to be spoon fed, while others take what you teach them and make it their own.

i've also had to rethink how to structure my lessons to deal with "thinkers and doers".......thinkers in my opinion slows down the class cause i have to stop and get into a deep explanation. my thing is just DO.....then ask.

so i do believe in structure....just not the importance of a sash system.

and you might be right, even in japanese and korean systems, if the pass students easily, i have issue with that. thats why i feel a black belt, or black sash should never be given to a 12 year old. in my opinion thats just wrong.

[Shaolindynasty]

In principle, the certificate and colored sash is the same. They both indicate progress through a schools chosen curriculum. It's really no big deal.

I've found in the beginning you have to spoon feed everyone, until they have enough experience to tailor the system to themselves.

I once met a 5yr old Tang Soo Do black belt:eek: Those instances are of schools that use the belts as a reward system/money maker. In general those schools suck. What it comes down to is what the rank means in your school.

[hskwarrior]

exxxxxackeree!!!!!!! ;)

[CLFNole]

I think people lose sight of the fact that getting a black belt means that you completed a required curriculum. It doesn't mean you are a bad ass fighter, a sifu or even good as some attain black belts through attrition. I agree seeing a 12-year old black belt is odd but all it means is he paid the test fees and completed the required material.

I think we all tend to get too caught up in the whole idea of leveling but it is something needed in the confines of a commercial school but in general people know who is good and who isn't within any given school.

[hskwarrior]

exxxxxackeree!!!!!!!

[David Jamieson]

belt ranking systems are a good tool within a school in my opinion.

in more informal study, they are definitely not part of it.

I agree with everything that's been said in regards to how they are used and what they mean. fwiw. :)

[chusauli]

Belt ranks are a tool for motivation, ego, title, buys respect, and gives a school revenue. When a struggling school can tap in the immodesty of the students and get them to pay for a certificate and belt, it only makes good $ense. Let's get real about it.

A good article everyone should read is:

http://www.authenticshotokan.com/PDF%20files/The%20Japanese%20Evolution%20of%20Karate%20Rank%20 by%20Pat%20Zalewski.pdf

The Chinese "kung fu" teachers here in the '70's boom adopted the stupid ranking structure just like everyone else.