Wanted History Lesson

[holymantis]

Hi Guy's,
History Lesson wanted here!
Can anyone tell me the History behind the 7 star Lineage's Weapon form, Civil Military Sword(8 Fairies sword). or even the history from other Lineage's also.
cheer's

regards roy:D

[Paul T England]

Its a Chin Wu Form.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[holymantis]

Hi Paul,
as far as i am aware it's not a chin Woo form!:D

[Paul T England]

As I understand it these are the Chin Wu forms as taught in LKW mantis group.

Gung Li Kuen / Power Boxing
Jie Kuen / Jeet Keun
Fook Fu Kwun / Staff
Bagua Darn Dao / Broadsword
Ng Fu Cheung / Spear
Man Mo Baat Sim Gim / Sword

Paul

[holymantis]

Hi Paul,
By the way do you know LKW's 8 fairies jian is the same as WHF's?
:rolleyes:

[holymantis]

OK, is 8 Fairies Jian and Civil Military Jian the same form? if so why 2 name's?
:D

[Paul T England]

Hi Roy,

Sorry I don't know much re WHF but I am sure Alex Tse or maybe David Graham might know.

The form name I have for LKW is the Civil and Military 8 Fairies/Immortals Sword

Man Mo Baat Sim Gim

Paul

[holymantis]

Hi Paul,
Hence why i am trying to find some History to the Jian Weapon form?
i want more than just a name !
it came from some where,(started) it's not of the 10 basic Chin Woo form's that are taught,
we could all benefit to a little history regarding ALL form's

regards roy:D

[mooyingmantis]

Roy,
shhhhhhh! The history of the forms are secret! But for $19.95 and a box of twinkies I can show you where this secret information can be offered to a select few on YouTube! ;)
Move along citizen, nothing to see here.

Richard

[Paul T England]

Exactly,

A name is just a name. Many forms have the same name but no other connection just like the names of people....not all Smiths are related!

Find out where your history is....

Paul

[KwaiChangCaine]

Hello Roy,

I think your question is reasonable. I think you and AlexTse are in touch and you could confirm that your set and WHF's are the same at which point he might be able to share some relevant background. Given that he's a sword collector chances are good that he know's something of it

The old gray forum ain't what it used to be.

[holymantis]

Hi Guy's ,
as KwaiChangCaine has posted (A reasonable question)and it has been given a Answer to.
by a few VERY good friends,thank's guy's
i will say this to People out here on the forum's a form is just a form(dance). without the application to know how it works it is just that a dance, i for one try to add HISTORY to my form's so as to pass on . it is part of my training that i expect to try to get some info to the form's i know. and if none there to find it!
i try to give my student's some history to our great ART.


regards roy:D

[mooyingmantis]

Hi Guy's ,
as KwaiChangCaine has posted (A reasonable question)and it has been given a Answer to.
by a few VERY good friends,thank's guy's
i will say this to People out here on the forum's a form is just a form(dance). without the application to know how it works it is just that a dance, i for one try to add HISTORY to my form's so as to pass on . it is part of my training that i expect to try to get some info to the form's i know. and if none there to find it!
i try to give my student's some history to our great ART.


regards roy:D

I agree wholeheartedly!

Richard

[Young Mantis]

Hi Guy's,
History Lesson wanted here!
Can anyone tell me the History behind the 7 star Lineage's Weapon form, Civil Military Sword(8 Fairies sword). or even the history from other Lineage's also.
cheer's

regards roy:D

Hi Roy,

I was initially confused by the parentheses in your writing of the form but in the WHF lineage, there is a gim form called 文武八仙劍 (Mun Mo Baht Seen Gim). It should correlate to your writing as "Civil Military 8 Fairies Sword". While I don't know much history on its origins, I am fairly confident it is not a Jing Mo form. The 10 Basic forms taught at Jing Mo Athletic Association before a student continued on to specialize in a specific style such as Praying Mantis are as follows:

潭腿 (Tam Tui)
工力拳 (Gung Lik Kuen)
節拳 (Jit Kuen)
接潭腿 (Jip Tam Tui)
八卦刀 (Baht Gwa Doe)
五虎槍 (Ng Fu Cheung)
大戰拳 (Dai Jin Kuen)
套拳 (Toe Kuen)
羣羊棍 (Kwun Yeung Gwun)
單刀串槍 (Dahn Doe Chuen Cheung)

WHF wrote an essay on sword (gim) and in it explains that in ancient China, many scholars such as students of Confucianism, wore a gim on their belt, even though they did not study martial arts. The gim represented the might of the military and so swords not used for actual combat are known as 文劍 or scholar/civil sword while those used for "killing enemy" are called 武劍 - martial sword.

Many CMA styles have gim forms that are named "8 Fairies". Within Chinese mythology, there are a famous group of Daoist immortals known as the 8 Fairies and of them, there is one (Lui Dong Bun) that is usually depicted with a gim. Other than that, I don't know the association of the 8 Fairies to the gim. If I find out any specific information on the history of this particular form, I will gladly post it here.

Vance

[holymantis]

Hello Vance,
That would be cool of you to pass any more info regarding this form thank you.
i will just say this also for you guy's out there!
潭腿 (Tam Tui) I am told has a 8 Fairies Jian form so maybe Paul maybe correct in his thinking ( they might have introduced it at one point ) but my Lineage's Jian form is Called Civil Military 8 Fairies Jian which i am told is not the same form.
Now WHF had the same form also as my Lineage being that my Grandmaster and him were Kung fu Brothers under LGY himself.CCM is also included there , and why it is the same form also as mine apart from some odd movements of maybe the hand's ,but all in all it's the same form.
regards roy:D

[holymantis]

Here is a link to ALL THAT ARE INTERESTED,
ENJOY!
may i say here a very big thank you to Alexander Tse for doing this.:cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOUPUMVqWuY

As requested by my friend,I added the names for each posture and the manuscript of the 8 fairies gestures. This is the only form of the 8 fairies jian that shown all the jian techniques that represent each 8 fairies.It's good in looking and practical.

regards roy

[B.Tunks]

I always prefer the 'Eight Immortals' translation over 'Eight Fairies'. Doesn't quite have the same connotations in English...

BT

[Paul T England]

Great discussion guys. Like Roy I also like to have the history of forms. Next time I chat with my sifu and sigung I will ask their thoughts...although I have always thought of the LKW/CCM man mo baat sim gim as a chin wu form. So which othe rlines have this form as done by LKW?

Paul

[KwaiChangCaine]

Agreed.... especially if they are "drunken".

[holymantis]

I always prefer the 'Eight Immortals' translation over 'Eight Fairies'. Doesn't quite have the same connotations in English...

BT
Hi BT care to share the Eight Immortals' translation then to see the differences:D

[B.Tunks]

I always prefer the 'Eight Immortals' translation over 'Eight Fairies'. Doesn't quite have the same connotations in English...

BT
Hi BT care to share the Eight Immortals' translation then to see the differences:D


HM.

Actually I just meant the name 'Immortals' as opposed to the name 'Fairies', rather than the jian pu. Although 'fairy' is sometimes used as the translation of 'xian' and is not entirely incorrect, xian are nothing like the fairies of english language/folklore (either kind). CMA has enough issues with PR as it is, let alone hardcore names like 'Eight Fairies Sword'.

On a side note, TLQ seems to have lot's of names that translate with dodgey connotations. My first teacher incorrectly translated Cha Chui as 'Insert the Fist', Zhaiyao as 'Extraction' and Duo Gang as 'Avoiding Hardness' (which is basically correct). I could go on, but I think you get the picture...

BT