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mantis108
10-30-2001, 11:33 PM
This one for you Tainan Mantis. I didn't want to release it because it still needed work (on my part) but since you ask. I will share what I have come up with. Enjoy. :)


In Memory of Sifu Eric Ishii

A Poem Concerning the 18 Styles that Make Up Praying Mantis

Version Four

Provided by personal contact of Late Sifu Eric Ishii’s (Roland Summer)
Note – Not in order with the other listings (i.e. Version 1-3)

Additional Remarks by Robert Hui

Oct 31, 2001

1: Cheng Kuen of Tai Jo (Long Fist) Tai Jo was the first Emperor of the Sung Dynasty. The Style contains big motions, exaggerating, and is very common in Taiwan

RE: Tai Jo (Tai Tzu Men) Changquan was popular from Shantung province as far as Henan province during Wong Long’s time. Henan Shaolin Temple was said to offer it in their curriculum at the time. In TCPM, Wong Long first learn this style from Sifu Wong Gar Chung, who also taught him the famous 12 Characters Principle, which later became the outstanding principle among all Northern Praying Mantis styles. ( New Martial Hero Magazine). At least 2 TCPM lineage holders - Grandmaster Hau Chi Yuen and Grandmaster Chiu Chuk Kai did train in Tai Tzu Men.

2: Tong Bei Kuen of Hong Tong (Shadow Fist/ AKA Ape Style)

RE: See #6

3: Lam Sao Kuen of Cheng Yum. (Closing/ Locking or Barrier Hands)

RE:

4: Duen Kuen of Wong Yuen (Short Fist)

RE:

5: Ngo Mee Kuen of Ma Jiak (Ngo Mo Fist)
The method of Ngo Mee Shan (Monastery) – is moving like a cat, short distance striking, and is still found in the P.R. of China

RE:

6: Pak Yuen Kuen of Sheung Hong (White Ape Fist)
From this method originated the main part of the footwork and the very famous 7 Star Stepping

RE: Pak Yuen Tong Bei seems to have different branches as well. This could be the reason that Ape Fist is mentioned twice. There is also the possibility that Tong Bei’s forms Dai Tong Bei (became Dai Fan Che?), Sui Tong Bei (became Sui Fan Che?), and Qixing (7 Stars) inspired some of the forms of 7 Stars PM. It is quite interesting that 7 Stars (the style) is said to be perhaps named after the form 7 Stars of Tong Bei. Indeed, lots of the long arm swinging motions can be found in both styles. But not commonly found in other PM styles. It is also of note that there is a form call 7 Stars (Qixing) in 7 Stars PM.

7: Gau San Kuen of Wong Chiem (Fist that lies on top or fist that rest on top of something)

RE:


8: Mui Fah Kuen of Mien Sai (Plum Flower Fist)
(Extraordinary dynamic style, consisting of 5 handsets, likes the 5 leaves {Petals} of the Plum Flower.)
Once very important and famous for affectivity, therefore it was integrated into many styles like Hung Gar, Choy Lee Fut, etc…

RE: There is a series of Mui Fah forms in the 7 Stars. Mantis somehow branched out into 7 Stars and Mui Fah. TCPM has closer ties to the Mui Fah branch.

9: Koy Sao Tong Kuen of Gam Sheung (Striking Shadow Fist)

RE:

10: Ban Kuen of Wai Dak (Death Fist)

RE:

11: Pak Ying Jow Kuen of Lau Hing (Northern Eagle Claw Fist/ Style)
Wang Lang was a very close friend of Sifu Lau Hing. After Lau Hing’s death, Wang Lang developed the Set Bung Bo Kuen in memory of him. This set is more than 50% Eagle Claw techniques and is esteemed as a most important set and is taught first (historically)

RE: Eagle Claw is still popular in Shantung. Geographically and interest wise, it is quite possible that they made friends.

12: Yin Chi Kuen, of Tam Fong (Swallow Fist)

RE:

13: Fan Chi (Fahn Chea) Kuen of Ying Ching (Yin Cheng)
Ying Ching was a famous top fighter of his time, especially feared for his unique (Broad) sword art. (RE: Ying Ching Dann Do)

RE: Ying Ching might once be real fighter of high caliber but he is more known in the sense of a folklore hero. In other words, like many legendary Kung Fu masters there is no substantial proof of his existence other than the Kung Fu Style that is named after him. He was known to have great throwing and grappling skill.

14: Tam Toi Kuen of Lam Chung (Jumping Leg Fist/ Style)
Breathing techniques and design makes it look like Karate, in some ways. Straight lined, high strength method.

RE: In many Mantis schools/ branches kicking exercises modeled after the Tam Toi training, which builds dynamic balance, functional leg strength, and stamina.

15: Lin Kuen of Lam Kam (Harmony Fist)

RE:

16: Choy Kuen of Choy Luen (Hammer Fist). Exclusively within the set CHOP CHOI Kuen. Classically a Shaolin set with elementary exercises for Foot techniques for beginning level students.

RE:

17: Lo Han Kuen of Yueng Kwong (Buddha Fist) Base of almost all of Shaolin Styles, which make them all similar.

Re: Lohanquan (Arhat Boxing) is considered the seed form of Shaolin. Even southern style such as Hung Gar has elements of it in its form (i.e. last section of Fu Hok Sern Ying Kuen)

18: Tong Long Kuen of Wong Long (Wang Lang) {Praying Mantis}
Tong Long Kuen is put together from only the most effective techniques of these above-mentioned methods/styles – to be highly effective itself. Tong Long Kuen, White Ape Style and Eagle Claw Style (in this order) are the three main posts (systems) that carry the Tong Long Style. Consisting of an individual choice out of a gigantic reservoir of Gung Fu techniques it still is identifiable in wide fields. The Eagle Claw Style of the Lau Family, which developed in the same province of China (Shantung) and was developed though a long period of time, with similar versatile and colorful method of fighting is to be highly revered as well.

RE: Taiji Praying Mantis or Tai Chi Praying Mantis (TCPM), IMHO, has 3 pillars that are slightly different from the 7 Stars Praying Mantis. The 3 pillars in Taiji Praying Mantis are Tanglangquen , Tai Tzu Men, and Taijiquan (Chen Style and Monastery Style). The information age seems to have brought out a lot of material regarding the history and formulation of Praying Mantis Style. They all seem to point to a common root, evolution, Style Cross Training and above all a strong will to excel. That, IMHO, is what Praying Mantis Kung Fu (regardless of style) is about.

To be completed…

Mantis108

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[This message was edited by mantis108 on 10-31-01 at 01:43 PM.]

Kiasyd
10-31-2001, 01:13 AM
Very informative post, mantis108... Thanks for your effort!

-- Kiasyd

mantis108
10-31-2001, 11:21 PM
Hi Kiasyd,

Thanks for the encouragement, really appreciate it. :) I wish I have more time to polish this and make it more presentable. Glad you enjoyed it.

Regards

Mantis108

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Kiasyd
11-01-2001, 02:21 AM
Can I show this at my school? Ff course I´ll credit you for this nice work...
I´m sure that my sihings there will like it alot, and my sifu also, since he met Sifu Eric Ishii personally, when whe went to SF.

-- Kiasyd

Tainan Mantis
11-01-2001, 12:37 PM
Mantis108,
It looks like the outline of a chapter in a book. Keep up the historical work.
It raises a host of questions.
In #6 you say that white ape and fan che are one and the same. That makes sense to me since my fan che looks just like Tong Bei.
So are you sure of this? Or making an educated guess?

mantis108
11-02-2001, 12:22 AM
Hi Kiasyd,

If you find the infomation useful, please by all means. This work was entrusted to be by Eric. So really it is his work more so than mine. The comments from me is mainly form a TCPM perspective. I know that Eric was very active in promoting 7 Stars. His passion for the arts (7 Stars and TCPM) really is inspirational.


Hi Tainan Mantis,

Thanks for the kind words. I like the idea of perhaps writting a research article/book of the poem with each style as a heading or chapter. But that would take me a long while because I am still feel like a beginner with PM. *sigh*.

As for the forms I believe that there is a "big" possibility that Fan Che and Qixing might come from Tong Bei. I am not saying that they are one and the same but that there "might" be a link. I have seen some Tong Bei and also both Fan Che (7 stars and TCPM) and they are "strikingly" (pun intended) similar. You definitely have more experience with 7 Stars than I do. So I would love to hear your analysis on this. So far, this is more of an educated guess than fact. Since I haven't been able to contact Tong Bei stylist (no offence WuShu Tong Bei doesn't count). Right now I am also eyeing on the 3 (or 5) Mui Fah forms and there are some interesting revelations as well. TCPM's Jeet Kun (Quickly Followed) seem to have structural similarities to Mui Fah Tui 1st Ru (at least in the openning part), which basically is 7 Stars' version of one of the Mui Fah forms. So TCPM's tie to Mui Fah (the PM styles which also seem to have 3 major Mui Fah forms) is intriguing from that perspective. BTW, did I mention I am also doing detective work on the origin of the TCPM forms, lol... So the journey continues... Anyway, I am in no hurry to know it all.

Mantis108

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Tainan Mantis
11-06-2001, 05:17 PM
Do you know what style he practiced and with who?
I've never heard of him before, is Chinese?

Inquisitor
11-06-2001, 07:14 PM
I believe Eric Ishii was one of the "Top Twelve" who were designated by Chiu Chuk Kai, late grandmaster of TaiChi Praying Mantis, to lead and teach the following generations of TCPM. I was told that this list was simply Chiu Chuk Kai's official acknowledgement of his leading disciples (although I have also heard that he has had many, many students who were authorized to teach the style but are not in this list). mantis108 and taijimantis are both probably better qualified to answer your question, Tainan Mantis; I am an outsider to the style, and only know it by affiliation.

mantis108
11-06-2001, 08:46 PM
Here's a Bio of him by the Webmaster of Mantiscave, which is an excellent resource site for most if not all Mantis styles. Fernando, my friend, you have done a great job. Hope you don't mind I copy this bio here and on my forum as well. :)


Shifu Eric Ishii Bio

SUMMARY


Mr. Eric Ishii first studied under shifu Li Da Chong (Brendan Lai) for more than 20 years. He passed away on Sunday, December 10, 2000 at Mills Peninsular Hospital (California, USA) after fighting against Leukemia for some time.

This is definitely a big loss to the praying mantis boxing community with whom he openly shared his deep knowledge. Personally, I have lost a very good friend, and this bio is my humble tribute to his memory. Eric, wherever you are I am sure you will be training Tang Lang Quan !!!



TRAINING IN HAWAII


Mr. Eric Ishii was brought up in Hawaii. Hawaii has a mixture of cultures and when he was very young there use to be black and white Japanese TV movies of Samurai and Ninja shows, both live action and Cartoon ones. This had some influence in getting Eric involved with Kendo (Japanese bamboo sword fighting with protective armor) when he was 9 or 10 years old. He trained Kendo under sensei Matsuda-san for about two years. Eric got to 3rd level during elimination in a statewide Competition, but then dropped out due to school homework was getting harder and taking longer to do.

During his Junior and senior years of High School, he trained in Kempo Karate under sensei Dustin Dunn for nearly three years. Kempo forms were animal based, which included separate sets / fighting techniques from Twin Dragons, Tiger, Crane, Horse and Bear. Besides practicing forms, they sparred a lot. It was through his involvement with Kempo that he was exposed to gong fu, and other martial art systems and movies. Then his teacher left Hawaii to go live in Los Angeles, California (USA).

Mr. Ishii I looked around for another teacher and he ended up taking Cai Li Fo (Choy Lee Fut) under shifu Buck Sam Kong after going to one of their recruiting demos which featured a lot of the animal forms. After he signed up and started practicing, he found out that the animal forms were not to be taught until one completed the Cai Li Fo forms in their curriculum. He tried to stick with the style because he was really interested in the animal forms at that time, however he just did not like the Long Range Forcing Power fighting of the Cai Li Fo, so after 9 months, he left.

Mr. Ishii ended up looking around again at different schools that were "open" to non-Chinese and visited the Bai He Quan (White Crane) Tibetan Hop Gar school of shifu Chuck Tse on two occasions. The White Crane class reminded Eric too much of the Cai Li Fo class and he politely decided not to join.

Later Eric became involved with training under shifu Patrick Hodges, who had been exposed to Northern Styles of gong fu, which were rare to find in Hawaii at the time (nearly everyone practiced Southern Styles or Tai Ji Quan and that was about it). Shifu Patrick had trained at the "Chinese Physical Culture Club of Hawaii", a Chinese gong fu club in Hawaii similar to the Jing Wu Association. As a part of this club's activities, they occasionally hosted visiting masters of traditional gong-fu and shifu Patrick managed to learn a set from every visiting shifu. In the early 70's shifu Patrick was teaching northern gong fu (basically Xing Yi Quan and Ba Gua Zhang) when Eric started learning under him. Under shifu Patrick, Eric learnt his first Bei Tang Lang (Northern Mantis set), Beng Bu Quan (Crushing Step Boxing), and that started Eric to develop his interest in this style. Shifu Patrick left Hawaii to go study gong fu to Taiwan under shifu Shen Mou Hui, and after a six month stint, shifu Patrick came back and kept teaching Eric. Eric kept learning bei gong fu forms: Lien Bu Quan (Continuous Step Boxing), Gong Li Quan (Martial Power Boxing), Shaolin Er Lu (Two Shaolin Rows), Si Lu Ben Da (Four Routes Running Combat) and Yang Qing Fei Tui (The Flying Legs of Yang Qing -Yang Qing is a character from Water Margin Story-). But Eric was really interested in Northern Mantis and shifu Patrick only knew a little at that time, therefore Patrick advised him to go California to from shifu Li Da Chong (who was the only one at the time teaching Northern Mantis in the US (advice that finally Eric took moving to CA). Eric always remembered Patrick as a friend and teacher, and whenever Eric visited his home in Hawaii he would bring him a gift of lup cheong (Chinese sausage) or Kwan Yin tea. Eric and Patrick kept their friendship over the years.



Around 1974 Eric met shifu Anthony Chuy in Hawaii through a friend at the military base. At that time Eric was eager to learn Praying Mantis from shifu Chuy and the latter shared his Tai Ji Tang Lang Quan and Qi Xing Tang Lang Quan knowledge with Eric, training with him every week. Eric learned from shifu Chuy some forms and they eventually became friends and kept their relationship over the years.



Around 1975 shifu Anthony Chuy introduced Eric to shifu Ross Mobley who had spent years both in Malaysia and Hong Kong studying basically Wu Style Tai Ji Quan, but he had also learned a rare Northern style called Qi Xing Quan (Seven Stars Boxing). Eric learned from shifu Mobley the form Heavenly Fist, one of the two surviving forms of this style.



Eric kept training under shifu Anthony Chuy until the later left Hawaii in 1976. After his training under shifu Chuy, Eric decided to continue studying the Northern Praying Mantis System under shifu Huang Han Xun lineage on the continental United States.



Later Eric met an immigrant from South Korea (who was of Chinese descent). This person had been trained in the Korean branch of Mei Hua Tang Lang Quan (Plum Flower Praying Mantis Boxing). Eric learned three sets from this person: the Korean branch version of Dai Fan Che (Big Tumbling Chariot), Mei Hua Luo (Plum Flower Falling) and Jin Gang Quan Quan (Buddhist Goddess Boxing). Eric only kept training the third one that he particularly liked.





TRAINING IN CONTINENTAL US



Eric had a choice of relocating to San Francisco, Colorado, New York, or Hong Kong to look up a Praying Mantis School. Eric did an visit to San Francisco, California (USA) in 1976 and visited various schools, including shifu Wong Jack Man (Jing Wu representative), shifu Kuo Ying Yee, shifu Y.C. Wong and shifu Li Da Chong. He took lessons with shifu Li Da Chong for the remainder of his extended vacation.

Eric ended up moving up from Hawaii to San Francisco in 1978 and he lived in the Bay Area until he passed away in 2000. At first, when Eric arrived to San Francisco he was just training under shifu Li Da Chong, then he was introduced to shifu Peter Kwong (who was shifu Li Da Chong's elder classmate and gong fu brother). Shifu Kwong held two types of classes, one was an "open" class (mixed races) and the other one was "closed", that was only intended for Chinese students. Eric ended up being able to join both classes and he was the only one in the "closed" class that attended the other "open" class too. This training under shifu Kwong lasted more than one year.

Somewhere around this time Eric was also introduced to shifu Xu Ji (Adam Hsu) and Eric also started learning Liang Yi (an internal style related to Ba Gua Zhang) under him. There are two sets that Eric learned from shifu Xu Ji, the Hand set and the Leg set. Eric kept practicing Hand set. Therefore, at that time he was training under three different shifus, although two of them belonged to the same style.

During 1979 Eric's grandfather back in Hawaii became very ill, just after Eric's grandmother had passed away, and he went back to Hawaii for a little while. When he returned to the San Francisco Bay Area, shifu Kwong had stopped teaching and Eric was told by shifu Li Da Chong that he had to make a decision between shifu Xu Ji and shifu Li Da Chong. Eric chose to keep training under shifu Li Da Chong and quit training under shifu Xu Ji. He kept learned under shifu Li the next 20 years.

Eric kept studying with shifu Li Da Chong, even after he was given verbal and a written document stating that he could teach. Eric wanted to teach but he considered the interest level for people wanting to study tang lang was very low and a studio room was too costly, therefore he preferred to continue studying under his master and assisting him with some instruction during the normal classes.

Eric was a sort of mantis encyclopedia, he knew most of the shifu Huang Han Xun lineage "solo" and sets except for:

Ba Zhao (Eight Elbows), Xiao Fan Che (Small Tumbling Chariot), Lian Huan Jin Tao (Chain Link Silky Suite) and the Zui Luo Han (Drunken Arhat) that he really had no interest in learning. He also knew both sides of a bunch of two-man sets of shifu Huang Han Xun lineage, including:

Beng Bu (Crushing Steps), Shi Ba Sou (Eighteen Old Men), Duo Gang (Conceal the Hard with the Soft), Bai Yuan Tou Tao (White ape steals the peach), Tao Hua San (Peach Flower Umbrella), etc.

He also knew many weapon forms (solo and two-man) including some rare forms such as: Dan Dao Dui Qiang (Single Broadsword Versus Spear), Shuang Bi Shou Dui Qiang (Double Daggers Versus Spear), Qi Men Gun Dui Qiang (Long Staff Versus Spear), etc.



OTHER TANG LANG QUAN TRAINING





In September 1991 Eric traveled to People's Republic of China and he competed in the "Jinan International Traditional Wushu Competition and Demonstration Festival". Eric won the First Prize in Group C of Men's Boxing. He went to China again in 1994.

Eric was open and willing to learn, therefore he trained with several masters in seminars or special classes, learning a bunch of forms, in addition to his main style curriculum:

Special seminar type classes from shifu Zhang in Honolulu Hawaii, Tai Ji Tang Lang Quan (Supreme Praying Mantis Boxing) from shifu Zhao Zhu Xi (Chu Chuk Kai) lineage.

Special seminar type class from shifu Lee Kam Wing in Hong Kong where he learnt the form Tang Lang Bu Xuang Quan (Mantis Stepping Whirlabout Boxing)

Five Linking Methods, a set based on items taken from the Lan Jie Quan (Intercepting Boxing)

All Plum Flower sets from the Mei Hua Tang Lang Quan (Plumb Flower Praying Mantis Boxing) branch

Seminar in People's Republic of China from shifu Lin Dong Chu from Yantai branch of Qi Xing Tang Lang (Seven Stars Praying Mantis Boxing), where he learnt PRC mantis Beng Bu (Crushing Step) form.

In Jinan (PRC) he took a seminar on Tai Ji Mei Hua Tang Lang Quan (Plumb Flower Supreme Praying Mantis Boxing) and he learnt Xiao Fan Che (Small Tumbling Chariot)

Shifu Zhang Bin Dou, Tai Ji Mei Hua Tang Lang Quan visiting San Francisco (USA) taught shifu Li Da Chong students the set Bu Chan (Catch the Cicada)

Wu Shu Mantis form called Xiao Tang Lang (Little Praying Mantis). Eric learnt this form from shifu Li Da Chong when the latter returned from one of his trips to PRC.





OTHER INTERESTS



Besides Tang Lang Quan, Eric had some other interests. He had a collection of antique Chinese Weapons including several dan daos, guan daos, pu daos, daggers, jians, hatchets, chain whips and spears.

Eric enjoyed Sci-Fi movies and techno and trance Music (he was previously into heavy metal and 70's & 80's Punk). He was part of two different rock bands one which was a new wavish band (named Seppuku) and the other was a Heavy Punk Metal band (named Gutless), which released a 7" record.

Eric's nickname SEP (short for Seppuku - ritualistic suicide to protect one's honor) stuck with Eric for long time. Apart from this, Eric loved Chinese food and was a good cook (Asian food).



Eric passed away at 2:17 a.m. on Sunday, December 10, 2000 at Mills Peninsula Hospital after fighting against Leukemia for some time. His passing away is a great lost to all the Praying Mantis Community. We have lost a great martial artist and a veritable fountain of knowledge but also a big friend and a beautiful soul. He will truly be missed by many.

Contraria Sunt Complementa

mantis108
11-06-2001, 09:36 PM
Well, let me frist say that Eric "is" like Obiwan to me. So, I would say his "force" is with me. ;)

I guess I was in the right place at the right time. I've only met him via this forum about less than 9 months. Nevertheless, his great martial spirit really have helped me to look at my Kung Fu in a very different light. He shared so much even though I am practically a stranger to him. At the time he entrusted part of his research to me, he put together a student mannual, and he encouraged me to make something of it for my own. Not long after that he passed away. The kind of trust from this great man is really overwhelming. The only thing I regretted was not been able to shake his hand. Anyway, I know he is watching over me, since I have also met his other good friends who has been helping me: David (Bamboo Leaf) and Perry, you guys are great! :D

As for the 12 disciples list, those are the people at the time active and able in promoting TCPM. Others were not mentioned such as Keung Mut Ling who passed away long ago but was considered as the most faithful and able student of Sigung Chiu. Why would he be consider as such? Because he fought side by side with Sigung all the way from Shantung province to Macau. Altough, Eric was a TCPMer (I consider him a brother of TCPM) but he did not study with Sigung. If he did, I am sure his organizational skill would really have helped TCPM community immensely.

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

-N-
11-06-2001, 11:26 PM
Just a short note to confirm... Eric was a student of sifu Brendan Lai. He was not associated with sifu Chiu Chuk Kai.

Also, although Sifu Lai authorized some of his students to teach on their own. The majority of these students, including Eric, did not use the title of Sifu for themselves.

The "Sifu" thing came into being after some of us started posting to the 7-star list, and others assumed that use of the title was appropriate. Somehow this got carried over to Fernando's website where almost everyone in the lineage tree shows up as a sifu.

Eric and I had mentioned on various occasions not to use the title "Sifu" as it was kind of awkward for us.

-N-

Tainan Mantis
11-07-2001, 09:00 AM
So I can read his old posts.

-N-
11-07-2001, 07:45 PM
Tainan Mantis,

Eric posted as ericsepishii.

see this link:

http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?a=srch&s=126197291&u=718195891

-N-

Nutt'nhunny
11-07-2001, 09:29 PM
so interesting. Can someone add to it? What is the scooping style like?