Do You Study...

[kfson]

the Tao, Zen, or Buddhism as relates to your practiced art?

[uki]

the Tao, Zen, or Buddhism as relates to your practiced art?if i could name what relates to my practice it is not the true way of relating to my practice. :p

[kfson]

if i could name what relates to my practice it is not the true way of relating to my practice. :p

Aha! You're a Mormon!

[GeneChing]

I'll even leave a redirect on the Shaolin forum where you originally posted this.

In answer to your question, I took Buddhist refuge at Green Dragon temple which is part of the San Francisco Zen Center. I took my Shaolin disciple vows a year later inside Shaolin Temple. For me, it's not how it 'relates.' It's one and the same.

I've read a lot of Daoism. It is impossible to engage taiji/xingyi/bagua on an intellectual level without reading Daoism. Some practitioners don't take martial arts on a cerebral level - and that's fine - but given my position, I have to look at it from all angles.

[kfson]

In answer to your question, I took Buddhist refuge at Green Dragon temple which is part of the San Francisco Zen Center. I took my Shaolin disciple vows a year later inside Shaolin Temple. For me, it's not how it 'relates.' It's one and the same.



What does it mean "to take refuge" and "vows" with respect to the Zen Center and Shaolin Temple?

[mooyingmantis]

Taoism in our art.

Richard

[Lucas]

i started my reading long before i started receiving physical instruction, a large portion of that included taoist, ch'an/zen literature. i dont know how my kungfu is impacted by that though, as i had an understanding of those things before i started martial arts physical practice with any seriousness.

actually now that i think about it, reading and learning about taoism probably birthed a large portion of my interest in chinese martial arts.

i dont really think about it much though.

[uki]

martial art without natural principle is easily defeated. :)

[bawang]

why r wite pplz interested in taoism and buddhism??!?

[uki]

why r wite pplz interested in taoism and buddhism??!?why did hock socky china man claim to invent them??

[bawang]

cuz we r india neigbors lol and dis guy he cum 2 our countrie liek 8000 yrs ago
tru stroy

[dimethylsea]

What does it mean "to take refuge" and "vows" with respect to the Zen Center and Shaolin Temple?


Kfson,

This may help with respect to the practice of "Taking the Three Refuges".

To become a Buddhist is to take refuge in the Three Jewels, also called the Three Treasures. The Three Jewels are the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha.

The formal ceremony of Ti Samana Gamana (Pali), or "taking the three refuges," is performed in nearly all schools of Buddhism.

I take refuge in the Buddha.
I take refuge in the Dharma.
I take refuge in the Sangha.

Often people will recite the three refuges at a Buddhist holy place or their local temple.

You can think of it as a proclamation on par for with a Christian's first recitation of the Nicean Creed, or a new Muslim convert proclaiming shahadah "'ašhadu 'al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu wa 'ašhadu 'anna muħammadan rasūlu-llāh"".

It is a very special thing.

I don't know much about the Shaolin vows, maybe Gene can explain that. :D

[uki]

there are four noble truths that precede enlightenment... dharma is a raft and rafts are an optional method of navigating the river of life. :D

[bawang]

chinese martial arts with religious background mostly use chinese folk religion, calling on gods and spirits of famous heros for power and protection, and before the cultural revolution using magical spells and spirit possession is common

what seems to interst westerners most are non religious philosophies of budhhism, which they can dabble a little and still feel comfortable. most people intersted in these that i met are attracted by the idea of religion without gods, though in folk chinese buddhism and taoism there are mutitues of gods and demigods and idol worship is a vital aspect. but that turns white people off lol

[uki]

chinese martial arts with religious background mostly use chinese folk religion, calling on gods and spirits of famous heros for power and protection, and before the cultural revolution using magical spells and spirit possession is common

what seems to interst westerners most are non religious philosophies of budhhism, which they can dabble a little and still feel comfortable. most people intersted in these that i met are attracted by the idea of religion without gods, though in folk chinese buddhism and taoism there are mutitues of gods and demigods and idol worship is a vital aspect. but that turns white people off lolwhere do the notions of "gods" and "demi-gods" stem from?? surely there must have been some events that were witnessed by ancient men and women - these events handed down and passed along throughout the ages tend to become blurred, hence the term "myth" or "legend"... history tends to repeat itself... i think the "gods" and "demi-gods" will soon reveal themselves once more to humanity. :)

[bawang]

chinese martial artists worship gods that were famous general with number of battlefield kills "zhan gong" who destroyed entire cities of non chinese peoples and helped expand the chinese empire
sure its cool to dabble in buddhism and taoism, but theyre not better than any other religion and they dont magically improve you as a human being

[taai gihk yahn]

where do the notions of "gods" and "demi-gods" stem from?? surely there must have been some events that were witnessed by ancient men and women - these events handed down and passed along throughout the ages tend to become blurred, hence the term "myth" or "legend"... history tends to repeat itself... i think the "gods" and "demi-gods" will soon reveal themselves once more to humanity. :)

nah, people just make sh1t up to try to make themselves feel less afraid of death

[taai gihk yahn]

chinese martial artists worship gods that were famous general with number of battlefield kills "zhan gong" who destroyed entire cities of non chinese peoples and helped expand the chinese empire
sure its cool to dabble in buddhism and taoism, but theyre not better than any other religion and they dont magically improve you as a human being

if u send me a picture of yourself, I will make an altar to u and invoke ur name before I practice everytime

[Lucas]

personally i was raised in a world completely devoid of religion. i had never been to church, never been preached to, never prayed. i had no real concept of god(s). in essence i had no faith. its strange because i dont know anyone else that grew up like that. anyone else grow up with out any religion at all?

as i got older and moved out in my teens (Ive been on my own since 15) i decided to study some religions to see what the fuss was all about. i read about a bunch of different types of religions. i read through the bible, i read literature related to the bible, i read literature about buddhism, i read about native american spiritual beliefs, learned my totem, etc. (im part cherokee) i read about satanism, i read about the muslim faith, i read about judaism, it was when i started to read about toaism, that the philosophies struck me as common sense. i liked that so i actually started to read more. the similarities between taoism and native beliefs is actually a lot if you compare them. its pretty interesting, both involve the balance of nature, and learning to coexhist within that balance harmoniously. also keep in mind i started to study taoism before i ever entered a kungfu school.

im still non religious, but from all the religions ive read about or studied to any degree, ive incorporated truths from them that i found to be generally across the board.

but then thats like asking why did all these peoples all over the world convert to the christian god? because it either made sense to them so they converted, or they had to.

IMO truth isnt confined to any particular culture, its universal.

[bawang]

nah, people just make sh1t up to try to make themselves feel less afraid of death

according to chinese religion since famous heros commited great deeds their spirit must rise to the sky and they must have turned into gods and demigods
its treated not as myth or legend its treated as FACT.

not all religion is universal

if u dont believe all that nonsense dont falsely bow in front of your guan gong statues

[MasterKiller]

This is what I worship:

http://commeta2.com/bent.gif

[Lucas]

i just dont fall for the religious trappings of any religion, i think mainly thats due to my upbringing.

i cant just all of a sudden ahve a faith in some god i never believed in before. i dont work like that.

its all philosophy and life lessons for me.

[Lucas]

here for some perspective on general native beliefs.

"Native American isnt blood; it is what is in the heart. The love for the land. The respect for it, those who inhabit it; and the respect and acknowledgement of the spirits and the elders. That is what it is to be indian."
White Feather
Navajo Medicine Man

"The Indian loved to worship. From birth to death, he revered his surroundings. He considered himself born in the luxurious lap of Mother Earth, and no place was to him humble. There was nothing between him and the Big Holy (Wakan Tanka). The contact was immediate and personal, and the blessings of Wakan Tanka flowed over the Indian like rain showered from the sky. Wakan Tanka was not aloof, apart, and ever seeking to quell evil forces. He did not punish the animals and the birds, and likewise, he did not punish man. He was not a punishing god. For there was never a question as to the supremacy of an evil power over and above the power of Good. There was but one ruling power, and that was Good."
-Chief Luther Standing Bear -
Teton Sioux, Born 1868

The old people came literally to love the soil, and they sat or reclined on the ground with a feeling of being close to a mothering power. It was good for the skin to touch the earth, and the old people liked to remove their moccasins and walk with bare feet on the sacred earth.
Their tipis were built upon the earth and their altars were made of earth. The birds that flew in the air came to rest upon the earth, and it was the final abiding place of all things that lived and grew.
The soul was soothing, strengthening, cleansing, and healing. This is why the old Indian still sits upon the earth instead of propping himself up and away from its life-giving forces. For him, to sit or lie upon the ground is to be able to think more deeply and to feel more keenly.
He can see more clearly into the mysteries of life and come closer in kinship to other lives about him.
- Chief Luther Standing Bear -
Teton Sioux, Born 1868

[bawang]

religious taoism believes we all came from the corpse of a 10 thousand foot giant called pangu who came from a giant egg

native american tree hugging sounds fantastic. did you read about the mohawk warriors where they would slowly skin their victims alive and cut off all their fingers while keeping them alive for several days?

or the inuit creation myth where a father tried to throw his daughter off a boat and as she cling on he cuts off her fingers one by one and her fingers turn into the polar bear and seals? its magical

[Lucas]

religious taoism believes we all came from the corpse of a 10 thousand foot giant called pangu who came from a giant egg

thats part of the reason i dont atatch myself to religious aspects of belief systems.

spirituality and philosophy is what make sense to me.

i dont believe in adam and eve any more than i believe japan was created by the falling drops of ocean water from a gods spear tip. i just dont.

BUT, all of these religions have valuable assets to them other than the religious aspects of gods and after lives.

[Lucas]

religious taoism believes we all came from the corpse of a 10 thousand foot giant called pangu who came from a giant egg

native american tree hugging sounds fantastic. did you read about the mohawk warriors where they would slowly skin their victims alive and cut off all their fingers while keeping them alive for several days?

dont forget tribes that performed human sacrifice! ;)

tree hugging is pretty universal lol

check out many rights of passage to manhood among a lot of the tribes. CRAZY stuff.

[bawang]

for me because i dont believe in their religion, i dont dabble in them out of respect for their beliefs

there is a western habit of dabbling in something very serious and sacred from other cultures for fun and hobby and not taking them seriously

[Lucas]

here is something that i do live by and believe in, still not religion though. :D

The Teaching of Tecumseh

Live your life that the fear of death
can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about his religion.
Respect others in their views
and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life,
beautify all things in your life.
Seek to make your life long
and of service to your people.
Prepare a noble death song for the day
when you go over the great divide.
Always give a word or sign of salute when meeting
or passing a friend, or even a stranger,if in a lonely place
Show respect to all people, but grovel to none.
When you rise in the morning, give thanks for the light,
for your life, for your strength.
Give thanks for your food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason to give thanks,
the fault lies in yourself.
Touch not the poisonous firewater that makes wise ones turn to fools
and robs the spirit of its vision.
When your time comes to die, be not like those
whose hearts are filled with fear of death,
so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again
in a different way.
Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.

[bawang]

in school i learned about culture from inside and outsider views.
if u dont partake in a culture fully u will always have a distorted outsider view. what u learned from them will be what they want to show you, how they want to present themselves. not what they truly are.

once again my opinion is the western habit of dabbling into the sacred and serious nonchalantly is a grave insult.

ive seen kung fu schools of wite ppls and abcs bowing to guan yu and yue fei idols but never heard them sing the traditional "lets drink the blood and eat the flesh of the barbarians" song called the river of blood

[Lucas]

educating yourself about others beliefs in a place where you are surrounded by all belief systems is a way of not remaining ignorant.

i cant even remember how many times ive seen people offend others just out of sheer ignorance because they dont understand what that person believes.

i see it the same with culture. how many americans think muslims are evil just because they are ignorant to the truth. far too many. in fact the way muslims prepare their animals for food is far more humane than almost any other culture on earth, but most people just dont take the time to learn.

universal truth is not confined to religion, religion simply attaches itself to the truth because it cannot be refuted. to seek truth from the various founts of human kind is simply seeking the truth.

i think its retarded to practice something you dont believe in and understand 100%

i would never bow down to an idol, because i cant.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is what I worship:

http://commeta2.com/bent.gif

You Sir, are truly enlightened !

[uki]

You Sir, are truly enlightened !must be a night lite or something...

[GeneChing]

As for Shaolin disciple vows, they add a baisee and bows to the master, just like any martial disciple vows.

[tattooedmonk]

this is what i worship:

http://commeta2.com/bent.gifbow down mutha f_ckers!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/forum_images/auto/r/350x0/5/b//5b63d-frustration.gif

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://geekssecrets.co.uk/zw002_800x600.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

sometimes you just gotta dance
http://www.a-mes-souhaits.com/gifs_animes/gif-anime-sexe-2.gif

[Lucas]

oh my.....lol


thats some of that universal truth i was talking about earlier.

[Lee Chiang Po]

This is what I worship:

http://commeta2.com/bent.gif


But your god is a false god. It is filled with saline and weak kung fu.

[dimethylsea]

why r wite pplz interested in taoism and buddhism??!?

Cause a fat asian is sexier than a dead guy on a cross!

[Lucas]

Cause a fat asian is sexier than a dead guy on a cross!

hahaha, but jesus has got to have a serious ab program, that man is CUT!

[David Jamieson]

I practice Ch'an or zen if you like.

I read the sutras as an interest, but not to satisfy spiritual needs.

that comes from elsewhere. :)

[cerebus]

I practice Ch'an or zen if you like.

I read the sutras as an interest, but not to satisfy spiritual needs.

that comes from elsewhere. :)

:o ............

[David Jamieson]

:o ............

wtf is wrong with you man? do you have a digital burr in your digital vagina or something? stop following me around like a lost kitten.

[cerebus]

LOL! Sorry Dave, you'll have to send me alist of all the threads I am and am not allowed to read or post on. I hadn't realized you were the arbiter of that.

And please keep your ego in check, I know you'd LOVE to think that someone is "following" you, but I'm just reading posts I find interesting. If you make a comment that seems ridiculous in light of your previous statements and actions, I might just raise my eyebrows. Sorry that hurt your feelings so severely (who'd a thunk such a tough guy as you would be so sensitive... :p ).

[cerebus]

Oh, and yes I must have a "digital burr" in my "digital vagina", whatever the digital heck that's supposed to mean... :D

[Lucas]

http://smiliesftw.com/x/catfight.gif

HAHA!

[Scott R. Brown]

why r wite pplz interested in taoism and buddhism??!?

Curiosity is a human characteristic, not a wite pplz characteristic! Why are usz so razizt?:)


nah, people just make sh1t up to try to make themselves feel less afraid of death

Isn't Death that smartazz guy on The Family Guy? I'm not afraid of him, besides he can't catch me ever since he broke his ankle!

Everything I know I learned on TV!!!:cool:


native american tree hugging sounds fantastic. did you read about the mohawk warriors where they would slowly skin their victims alive and cut off all their fingers while keeping them alive for several days?

Don’t forget about lighting fires on genitalia and tanning human skin to make bags and other forms of apparel such as belts out of the breasts of women!:eek:


for me because i dont believe in their religion, i dont dabble in them out of respect for their beliefs

there is a western habit of dabbling in something very serious and sacred from other cultures for fun and hobby and not taking them seriously

Yeah....only westerners do that! Everyone else is perfect. Asians are some of the most racist people on the planet!:p


in school i learned about culture from inside and outsider views.
if u dont partake in a culture fully u will always have a distorted outsider view. what u learned from them will be what they want to show you, how they want to present themselves. not what they truly are.

According to Ch'an teachings, ALL views are distorted views! We re-interpret all phenomena according to our own preconceived notions.:)


once again my opinion is the western habit of dabbling into the sacred and serious nonchalantly is a grave insult.

Or just an enjoyable pastime. :)

It is in insult only to those who cling to fixed views!:eek:


ive seen kung fu schools of wite ppls and abcs bowing to guan yu and yue fei idols but never heard them sing the traditional "lets drink the blood and eat the flesh of the barbarians" song called the river of blood

I have had numerous Japanese Buddhist friends who wore a Christian Cross without understanding the plan of salvation and without a clear understanding of Christian beliefs and practices.

It didn't bother me at all! Why iz azians so razizt?:p


i see it the same with culture. how many americans think muslims are evil just because they are ignorant to the truth. far too many. in fact the way muslims prepare their animals for food is far more humane than almost any other culture on earth, but most people just dont take the time to learn.

Too bad they don't treat non-muslims as well as they treat their their dead meat.:mad:

In 2001 the Taliban dynamited the Bamiyan Buddhas!

Presently the historical tomb of Ezekiel is being desecrated in Iraq! Prior to WWII one quarter of the population of Baghdad was Jewish!

Coptic Christians are persecuted in Egypt!

In Turkey Christian properties are being presently being confiscated!

Christians were run out of Lebanon!

Jews have lived in Iran for 2,700 years, yet 8 of 10 have been run out of the country since the Islamist Revolution in the ‘70’s

Pakistan was formed for the purpose of not having Muslims ruled by Hindus under the pretence that all religions would be treated fairly, yet the non-Muslims population, since its founding in 1947, has gone from 20% to 3%. The non-Muslim populations were Hindus, Parsees, Christians and Sikhs!

Etc.


i think its retarded to practice something you dont believe in and understand 100%

Is there ever 100% understanding and belief? Who determines when others have 100% belief and understanding? It seems to me this is where persecution of non-believers begins.


i would never bow down to an idol….

An idol is merely an artificial representation of what may be referred to as “higher principle”! It is a psychological device used to assist one in their practice/devotion! The bowing is a symbol of humility, submission and devotion to that higher principle! It fosters a release of personal ego which is necessary for deeper understanding!;)

[MasterKiller]

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/79072-1/Cristina_Basso_bikini.gif

[cerebus]

http://smiliesftw.com/x/catfight.gif

HAHA!

LOL! GENE!!! David's calling me naaaames!!! :D Oops, wrong thread!

GENE!!! David's talking about my vagiiiiina!!! :D

[cerebus]

And thank you MK for bringing this thread back on track. Mmmmm.... bewbies... :p

[uki]

Mmmmm.... bewbies...bewbies about as real as the McMA. :D

[David Jamieson]

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/79072-1/Cristina_Basso_bikini.gif

squeezing them out is...weird. that aside, we had a rain shower like that in the place we stayed in the Dominican. Nice.

Cerberus: you can post wherever you want. I don't understand why you would want to make commentaries or funny faces when I am posting something. Hence the burr up your vagina.

You got something you want to say to me, take it to PMs. Where others don't have to read your whinging and I can delete them quickly. :)

[cerebus]

Cerberus: you can post wherever you want. I don't understand why you would want to make commentaries or funny faces when I am posting something. Hence the burr up your vagina.

You got something you want to say to me, take it to PMs. Where others don't have to read your whinging and I can delete them quickly. :)

Yes, of course, you accuse me of "whining" while crying about me posting a VERY mild response on a public thread, but you see nothing whatsoever wrong with calling me a bunch of childish names and making snide, nasty comments. If there's a "burr" up my "vagina" it's only 'cause you keep putting it there.

And you thinking that you somehow have the authority to tell people what they can and cannot do on a public forum... arrogant much? :D You're hilarious... :p

If you're so sensitive and get your feelings hurt so easily then you need to stay off public forums, or at least learn to interact with people like an adult. Basically, if a simple smily face is going to offend you so horribly, you might want to consider the possibility of not being such azz all the time. Be well.

[David Jamieson]

Yes, of course, you accuse me of "whining" while crying about me posting a VERY mild response on a public thread, but you see nothing whatsoever wrong with calling me a bunch of childish names and making snide, nasty comments. If there's a "burr" up my "vagina" it's only 'cause you keep putting it there.

And you thinking that you somehow have the authority to tell people what they can and cannot do on a public forum... arrogant much? :D You're hilarious... :p

If you're so sensitive and get your feelings hurt so easily then you need to stay off public forums, or at least learn to interact with people like an adult. Basically, if a simple smily face is going to offend you so horribly, you might want to consider the possibility of not being such azz all the time. Be well.

holy crap.

thickest of the thick shall be your sobriquet from here on in. :p

[cerebus]

holy crap.

thickest of the thick shall be your sobriquet from here on in. :p

Well, I've been called worse for less, by you.... repeatedly. Big shock that the only response you can come back with is.... more insults!!! Shock, shock, horror, horror! :eek: :p

[bawang]

hay guys hoe i stop takdown useing winchung????

[Lucas]

hay guys hoe i stop takdown useing winchung????

horse stance!!!!

http://smiliesftw.com/x/eek3bounce01.gif

[Lucas]

a bunch o' wisdom and smart stuff

your brain has too much stuff in it! http://smiliesftw.com/x/confused_dazed_insane.gif

[Scott R. Brown]

your brain has too much stuff in it! http://smiliesftw.com/x/confused_dazed_insane.gif

I wish I could sell the extra "stuff" so I can have some more monies!!!:D

[Lucas]

I wish I could sell the extra "stuff" so I can have some more monies!!!:D

I'll buy it!!!!!

[No_Know]

dharma is a raft and rafts are an optional method of navigating the river of life.-uki

Dharma is the water-sink or swim...or float...-No_Know

Dharma is the atmosphere, like it or not it's there. -No_Know

kfson, Whatever it was, if at-all.

Reportedly you are asking to be told something. but it is something you might already understand. You might seek confirmation of your thinkings or beliefs. By telling we lable-and therefore limit Which excludes . Which detracts from the Whole Which means what we said was not all and therefore not the absolute truest answer. The absence of communication attempts conveys most. The Would-like to convey achieves. The certainty of understanding should many times be doubted. Doubt causes one to wonder. And in the wondering we get the most up-to-date Truth. As Truth is for a moment-from a perspective addressing a wonder. Any change in any factor of any truth there is difference, and perhaps no longer the truth for the wonder.


kfson,

We have experiences, there is the Tao.

We have wonder/ thoughts/ doubts/questions of convictions or understandings of observations, this is the Zen (Ch'an).

We seek to be good and do Right this is the Buddha.

My Say- No_Know

No_Know

[Shaolindynasty]

I don't see the problem with non asians being interested in Buddhism.:confused:

[Scott R. Brown]

I'll buy it!!!!!

LOL, well you are already getting it for free!:)

[Lucas]

you have a point there, ill just keep taking what you give away. ;)

[Scott R. Brown]

you have a point there, ill just keep taking what you give away. ;)

Good thinking, besides I just read that the Long Island daily, Newsday, decided to go "pay for access" for their online content, and after 3 months they only have 35 subscribers...I think there wouldn't be much future for me along those lines if a newspaper can't make any money selling information, LOL!!

I'd rather give it all away for free anyway....especially to good guys like you!:)

[Lucas]

Score one for the good guys!!!

[kfson]

-uki

Reportedly you are asking to be told something. but it is something you might already understand. You might seek confirmation of your thinkings or beliefs. By telling we lable-and therefore limit Which excludes . Which detracts from the Whole Which means what we said was not all and therefore not the absolute truest answer. The absence of communication attempts conveys most. The Would-like to convey achieves. The certainty of understanding should many times be doubted. Doubt causes one to wonder. And in the wondering we get the most up-to-date Truth. As Truth is for a moment-from a perspective addressing a wonder. Any change in any factor of any truth there is difference, and perhaps no longer the truth for the wonder.



As I understand, Zen has a distrust in words. But the voiding manner in which Zen masters use words allows a kind of penetration the academic fails to see.

[Shaolindynasty]

Buddha teaching favored direct life experience vs. academic study or philosophy.

[kfson]

Buddha teaching favored direct life experience vs. academic study or philosophy.

What was the medium of Buddha teaching?

[uki]

Buddha teaching favored direct life experience vs. academic study or philosophy.that's because life experience IS the best teacher.

[David Jamieson]

Buddha teaching favored direct life experience vs. academic study or philosophy.

In Ch'an and Mahayana, yes this is true. It is not true of overall Buddhist teachings or practice. Definitely not the way in many of the religious manifestations of buddhism which adheres to doctrine and can be quite dogmatic as well.

[uki]

Definitely not the way in many of the religious manifestations of buddhism which adheres to doctrine and can be quite dogmatic as well.this is usually what happens when religious doctrines infect natural principles and ideals. :)

[David Jamieson]

this is usually what happens when religious doctrines infect natural principles and ideals. :)

Yes it can be. But religious doctrines have usefulness as well as far as guidance and declaration of understanding of intent and method to use that intent with purpose.

Not all religion is bad after all. It gives people common ground, common belief, common motivation to act and in many cases, with a positive effect although, yes, it has had negative effects as well.

There are people who insist that Ch'an should have no writings whatsoever, but if there weren't, most of the world would not even have heard the term "zen".

[kfson]

What is the word? What is meaning? When Buddha discussed life with his students, how did he determine which words to use and why?

[Lucas]

Yes it can be. But religious doctrines have usefulness as well as far as guidance and declaration of understanding of intent and method to use that intent with purpose.



not to mention a lot of people need the direction, some would be lost without it on their own. (religion in general)

[uki]

There are people who insist that Ch'an should have no writings whatsoever, but if there weren't, most of the world would not even have heard the term "zen".writing is an art form... those who would shun the written word are shunning a medium of self expression - ch'an principles amount to observing and putting in to practice the nature of life around us... as a concept, ch'an is highly attuned personally to individuals based on their surroundings and general experience in life.

[kfson]

writing is an art form... those who would shun the written word are shunning a medium of self expression - ch'an principles amount to observing and putting in to practice the nature of life around us... as a concept, ch'an is highly attuned personally to individuals based on their surroundings and general experience in life.

Can it be said there is a relationship between the word and "the Way"? If so, in general, what can be said?

[uki]

What is the word? What is meaning? When Buddha discussed life with his students, how did he determine which words to use and why?words are determined thru life experience...

[kfson]

words are determined thru life experience...

How is experience determined?

[uki]

How is experience determined?by taking risks. :)

[David Jamieson]

what the eff are you guys going on about. lol

it's like all the fortune cookies in the bucket broke at once. :D

[Lucas]

what the eff are you guys going on about. lol

it's like all the fortune cookies in the bucket broke at once. :D

i had a fortune cookie today with my lunch....it was empty. :(

[Xiao3 Meng4]

i had a fortune cookie today with my lunch....it was empty. :(

How Zen!

Confucius say: I am right.

[kfson]

i had a fortune cookie today with my lunch....it was empty. :(

So you had a full lunch?

[Lucas]

I only ate half! I took advice from someone ive never met before and decided a while ago to finish consuming before i become full. :D

[Lucas]

How Zen!

Confucius say: I am right.

hehe
:eek: :cool:

[kfson]

I only ate half! I took advice from someone ive never met before and decided a while ago to finish consuming before i become full. :D

So you're going to let the children starve in Africa?

[Scott R. Brown]

What is the word? What is meaning? When Buddha discussed life with his students, how did he determine which words to use and why?

Whatever action, words or lack there of was expedient at the time. Each circumstance determined how he taught, it is called, "expedient means".:)

[Lucas]

So you're going to let the children starve in Africa?

i save the rest for a seperate meal later in the day or the next day. :)

but then i suppose i have been letting them starve, as i havent been feeding them... :(

[taai gihk yahn]

Each circumstance determined how he taught, it is called, "expedient means".:)

and each circumcision determines where he is naught, it is called, "ex-penient seams"

[Lucas]

LOL!!
these are not the words you are looking for

[Scott R. Brown]

and each circumcision determines where he is naught, it is called, "ex-penient seams"

ROFLMAO!!!

You need to:

Recline
Sit
Stand
Walk

more!!:p

[taai gihk yahn]

ROFLMAO!!!

You need to:

Recline
Sit
Stand
Walk

more!!:p

or perhaps I need to

Spectacubate
Spectacubate
Spectacubate
Spectacubate

[Scott R. Brown]

or perhaps I need to

Spectacubate
Spectacubate
Spectacubate
Spectacubate

It does stimulate testosterone production I hear!

But everyone knows you bald guys don't need more testosterone!