How many years to preying mantis effectiveness?

[Syre]

I know that it depends on your talent, how much you practice, etc. etc. but let's not cop out here: there are averages which are known to people on this forum.

The question is:

<blockquote>How long does it take a reasonably talented, reasonably coordinated beginner with no previous martial arts experience, who goes to class twice a week and does some but not daily practice on his own time to become street-effective with northern preying mantis?
</blockquote>

If this varies between styles, let's hear from 7 Star, 8 Step and any others.

And I'm still curious about what I read in my previous main forum thread "What do you think of
8 Step Preying Mantis". The question there is:

<blockquote>Is one taught the applications and other "secrets" neccesary for street-effectiveness without committing to becoming a sifu and without having any interest in opening a school or becoming a teacher? </blockquote>

Any comments or info please?

[Tainan Mantis]

Before giving my opinion to your question, I have to say that the difference in individuals with no prior MA training and how fast they learn can not reasonably be averaged.

I've noticed that girls who learned dancing as a kid learn the quickest.

People who have done weight lifting often learn the slowest. Not to say that weights are bad, because more strenghth is a good thing. But they are often tense thru the range of motion, as if they were lifting a weight, this makes them take an extra long time to learn how to go from total tension to being limp like a noodle strand.

People who played rough sports where nimbleness is important, like soccer and rugby, adapt quickly to the reality of hitting and getting hit.

And although I've only taught a pro athlete once (hockey) but I noticed that little inconviences like pain and exhuastion were more part of the fun as opposed to being a new experience. I would guess that any pro athlete must have eaten a lot of bitter to get where they are. This would mean that they learn much faster.

To answer the question.
It takes 1 day of training to be street effective. Sometimes it takes a week.

That doesn't mean a great fighter, just someone who can fight.

[EARTH DRAGON]

this is an extremly hard question to answer based on the amount of variables. But I would say that street effectivness begins with being able to block or redirect a punch and strike back. This can be learned as tainan mantis said in your first class, however to seriously be proffecient in any martial art meaning that you only use it and not rely on street fighting instincts I would have to say a few years. After a few years of dedicated training in your art you should be finding out ways to walk away from fighting becuse those who train how to fight should be the last ones to want to! People with money dont brag about how much money they have, only the ones with out it brag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One time I asked my teacher how do you know when your good? he replied when you move without thinking....
To answer your second question, no will will not learn the same as someone who enters the sifu program but you will learn applications for the BC , 8's ,kicks and sets in the silver level but you have many years before you reach silver so I suggest you train your body coordinations and when you get close to that level ask again. I have found that the eager students usually quit before red sash level, mark my words but 90% dont make it to silver 1, you may say not me Im in it for the long haul but only time will tell!!!!!
PS your spelling praying mantis wrong its with an A not and E prey means on others , praying is the name of the insect due to its arm position.
http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[mantis108]

I agree with Tainan Mantis and Earth Dragon. Your frist lesson (2 - 3 hours of instruction) should give you a basic street effectiveness. At 72 hours quality instruction time, you should be able to fight with Mantis skills comfortably providing that you work hard. This is again depending on the instruction. The more time you spend on forms the less time you will have to do the conditioning which in my view includes working with a resisting opponent. That is application wise. For appreciation of the system and to master the system then we are talking a lifetime of study.

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[18elders]

preying mantis is the British spelling as would be colour(color), cheque(check), etc.

[ansgenius1]

If you don't see that praying mantis is effective, why stay with it? It all depends on the person. I feel that praying mantis is right for me and can be devastating on the street. It's a judgement call. I still don't feel prepared for a fight but, I still think I can do some damage. That's just me.

[EARTH DRAGON]

I was unaware that they spell it differently in Britian I thought the insect speeling was the same , however syre lives in LA so he should speel it with a A but thanks for pointing that out. Learn something new everyday!

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[18elders]

It is spelled that way in Canada( i guess most countries that were British Colonies). I don't know if that guy is from Canada or not.
I learned the hard way moving from Buffalo to Toronto as a kid and getting them marked wrong on my school papers for spelling them our way!

[Paul Skrypichayko]

While some training is better than none, I don't think one would ever become "good" on such a lazy practice schedule as that one. Even if you go to class only one hour per week, you should practice at least 2 hours per day, every day, at home. Training like that for only six months, you can really accomplish something.

By saying street effective, what do you mean? Fighting multiple opponents, with or without weapons? Being able to run away, or being able to kill your attackers? Don't get me wrong, running away is one of the best techniques out there.

I don't think you should have to pay any special money, or make any special pledges to get the full training. So long as you practice hard, why wouldn't a good master teach you everything he knows

[Syre]

You're all copping out here in a very big way.

What I mean, and I think you know what I mean, is: how long typically would it take within the 8 Step Praying Mantis system to learn the basics and the applications and be able to apply them if necessary?

I've been taking these classes for a lot more than 72 hours and I'm certain I can't fight with them yet.

What I've heard is that one has to do the sashes, there isn't any sparring before green sash, then there's blue and red, then silver for some levels, then gold.

At what level is one able to actually fight well against a real attacker, typically, and how long does it take to get to that level?

What I'm looking for is "you really have to be at Silver 3, and that takes 3 years" or whatever the answer is. If the real answer is "it's not actually effective until you've gone through the Sifu program and practiced for 10 years" just say so.

So how about it? Care to be straight with me about this and stop playing around?

Thanks.

[Nutt'nhunny]

probably silver mantis 2, you learn applications then. It depends on the school. My friend started kicking my ass 2 weeks into his 8 step training, but their school is very fight focused.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Sorry, I don't think most people are familiar with 8 step mantis, let alone their sash ranking system.

If you dont feel comfortable or confident in the material they are teaching you, do you think it's a good place to learn and spend your time training?

[EARTH DRAGON]

not realy sure if you will get a definate answer by way of time or levels. What I mean is that there are to many circumstances to give an exact answer. If you ask when will I learn how to multiply in school the answer is 3th grade when you are 7 years old. In kung fu your time and what you get out of it vary. It is way to hard to pinpoint a time or # of classes till you can win a fight. And usually by the time you can you should have matured enough not to! when you train to learn how to fight you should be more skilled than someone who hasnt in a couple of months. However that doesnt mean you can beat people up cause you train! does that make sense? If you are taking bowling lessons and you ask how many lessons does it take to win a bowling game you will get the same answer. Depends on to many things.
I dont think that anyone is playing around with you when the responded but your question is impossible to answer. when the time comes only you will know.

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[Syre]

Earth Dragon, once again you are evading the question.

The question was:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> How long typically would it take within the 8 Step Praying Mantis system to learn the basics and the applications and be able to apply them if necessary?[/quote]

The way to answer this question is to first of all be clear on at what level within the system it really becomes useful for fighting. Is it Silver 2? Is it Gold 5? Is it not really useful for fighting until you complete the sifu program?

So maybe we should stop there. That's my question. At what level do you really learn the true fighting techniques?

My next question, of course, is how long does it typically take to get to that level? And you can answer that this way "the least I've seen it take is X and some people never get there, but those who do usually take Y or thereabouts."

This is NOT hard stuff to answer if you want to answer it. If you don't want to answer it you can think of all kinds of excuses or cop-outs to prevent yourself from giving the real answer you already know and have on the top of your tongue.

[EARTH DRAGON]

I am not evdaving the question at all, But you are asking a question that depends on way to many things to get a cut and dry answer.But if it makes you happy to hear an answer I would have to say silver 2.. that is when you start to learn how to apply techniques such as the 8's that you learn at green sash level. This should take at least 2 years to reach. However you can be past that level and still not know how to defend your self in all street fighting situations. But is should give you basic fundementals of fighting application techniques.

http://www.kungfuUSA.net