Skin Grabbing/Ripping

[kfson]

Holy Cow!
Lately I've been fighting a man who is expert at grabbing skin in the triceps and chest area then pulling and twisting.
After he makes the grab, I lean in so he has less force/angle/length to pull. When that happens he twists the skin.
This is new to me.

[David Jamieson]

Holy Cow!
Lately I've been fighting a man who is expert at grabbing skin in the triceps and chest area then pulling and twisting.
After he makes the grab, I lean in so he has less force/angle/length to pull. When that happens he twists the skin.
This is new to me.

reads like eagle claw or tiger claw technique is his forté and he has spent time working it out.

There are several techs that i know of that are for grabbing and twisting stomach fat, pectorals, bicep tendons, collar bone grab & pulls, etc etc.

come to think of it, theres a lot of dirty dirty stuff in traditional chinese martial arts. lol

[kfson]

reads like eagle claw or tiger claw technique is his forté and he has spent time working it out.

There are several techs that i know of that are for grabbing and twisting stomach fat, pectorals, bicep tendons, collar bone grab & pulls, etc etc.

come to think of it, theres a lot of dirty dirty stuff in traditional chinese martial arts. lol

This stuff is dirty for practice... but it works surprisingly fast with apparently minimal effort... believe me. Better learn now than later, I guess.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Holy Cow!
Lately I've been fighting a man who is expert at grabbing skin in the triceps and chest area then pulling and twisting.
After he makes the grab, I lean in so he has less force/angle/length to pull. When that happens he twists the skin.
This is new to me.

Punch him in the face next time, that may loosen his grip.
:D

[MasterKiller]

Lose some weight, fatty, and he won't have anything to grab!

[sanjuro_ronin]

lose some weight, fatty, and he won't have anything to grab!

bbbwwaahhhh !!!!!!

[uki]

the secret is to learn from the squid. :D

[kfson]

Lose some weight, fatty, and he won't have anything to grab!

says the eunuch.

[David Jamieson]

says the eunuch.

dude, it's "bald eunuch" :rolleyes:

you can be so insulting at times. :mad:

:p

[Lucas]

ever have someone grab that tendon that leads off your pectoral to your shoulder, sry dont know the name....well i hurts like a mofo if someone actually gets a grip on that thing.

[David Jamieson]

i like getting my muscle pulled, but not in that way.

[Lucas]

so, you're into organ grinding then?

[sanjuro_ronin]

so, you're into organ grinding then?

That reminds me of this girl I knew with braces...

[David Jamieson]

That reminds me of this girl I knew with braces...

...and a monkey with a nervous twitch?

[IronWeasel]

Lose some weight, fatty, and he won't have anything to grab!



Eagle claw, huh....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_thlSQk4AY4s/SivNpyXyVyI/AAAAAAAAAJI/wQFza2ExF7o/s320/grabbing+fat.jpg

[uki]

Eagle claw, huh....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_thlSQk4AY4s/SivNpyXyVyI/AAAAAAAAAJI/wQFza2ExF7o/s320/grabbing+fat.jpgthis one can be called, "eagle grabs the love handle" or "catching lard." :D

[Lee Chiang Po]

I do what is called the Dragon hand. You use the pinky, ring, and middle finger rather then the other 2, and your roll flesh up with them. It works quite well with grabbing the more tinder parts of a body, but is more designed for grabbing eye lids, ears, lips cheeks, and the throat area. I much prefer the face.
I once got sucker punched by a young man that was over 6 feet tall and about 180 pounds. I seen it coming a split second before impact and moved slightly. It got me a good glancing blow, but it broke my right cheek bone and knocked me backwards rather than down, and he fell over me. I reached up between his hands and grabbed him by both upper and lower lips, rolled them up tight and jerked him off his feet by them. As I backed up I was sort of dragging him by his lips. He screamed like a little girl, but kicking him in his throat stopped that. I held him until a couple of police came in and took charge. His lips hung down to his upper chest when I let go. He had been sucker punching people and grabbing their wallets and running. He almost got mine too. Every time he would put his hands on the ground in an attempt to get up I would stomp on them until they were a mess.
Developing these techniques require you to do special hand exercises to develop strength in them. Without that you will not be effective.

LCP

[David Jamieson]

I do what is called the Dragon hand. You use the pinky, ring, and middle finger rather then the other 2, and your roll flesh up with them. It works quite well with grabbing the more tinder parts of a body, but is more designed for grabbing eye lids, ears, lips cheeks, and the throat area. I much prefer the face.
I once got sucker punched by a young man that was over 6 feet tall and about 180 pounds. I seen it coming a split second before impact and moved slightly. It got me a good glancing blow, but it broke my right cheek bone and knocked me backwards rather than down, and he fell over me. I reached up between his hands and grabbed him by both upper and lower lips, rolled them up tight and jerked him off his feet by them. As I backed up I was sort of dragging him by his lips. He screamed like a little girl, but kicking him in his throat stopped that. I held him until a couple of police came in and took charge. His lips hung down to his upper chest when I let go. He had been sucker punching people and grabbing their wallets and running. He almost got mine too. Every time he would put his hands on the ground in an attempt to get up I would stomp on them until they were a mess.
Developing these techniques require you to do special hand exercises to develop strength in them. Without that you will not be effective.

LCP

*note to self; no sucker punching.

[KTS]

this category is defintely more "street defence/nasty little tricks" than sport.

i have actually found this to be a very deep area of study. gripping, like the underside of the arm for example, is easy to access not to mention painful as sh..


the secret is to learn from the squid.

haha. u know master squid?

[Lokhopkuen]

I'm a ferocious pincher:D

[Yum Cha]

Punch him in the face next time, that may loosen his grip.
:D


ROTFL....

That's the thing about grabs, that hand isn't protecting something.

I use that grip Le Chang Po described to grab backs and tricepts to trap and throw.


I like the idea of ubange lip fu.....

[goju]

actually this is a good time to ask this question

would teh claw be illegal in say an mma type fight?
i never asked by coaches while i was at an mma gym

[MasterKiller]

actually this is a good time to ask this question

would teh claw be illegal in say an mma type fight?
i never asked by coaches while i was at an mma gym

You cannot grab and/or twist flesh in an MMA fight. A claw against throat illegal if you squeeze the neck. You can, however, do an "open finger" choke (rape choke).

[uki]

You cannot grab and/or twist flesh in an MMA fight. A claw against throat illegal if you squeeze the neck. You can, however, do an "open finger" choke (rape choke).more limitations... LOL... and this is touted as being real?? LMAO!!! McMA is soooo transparent... and everyone wonders why there are no traditional kung fu stylists partaking in this idiotcy. :rolleyes:

[goju]

it would be interesting to see the claw used in that setting....

[No_Know]

Defeating the grab (grab and twist...Press your skin--person's hand forms a tunnel at one of the ends of the tunnel (especially the thumb end perhaps).

Pressing your skin removes from persons grip. Pressing the skin at the end of the tunnel and dragging might help

If grabbed under the armor that area close the arm, if can coverr and press person's hand, for an arm lock attempt or startit but when person shifts to catch you you should have started a shift in anticipation and attacked.

Press and pull your skin from persons grasp

Trap the elbowor cover the back of the hand an lean well into the person attempting to force the grip hand back working the wrist.

Wrist chin-nas and pressing and pulling your skin--as waves in the ocean current your skin or the muscles grabbed onder, fro the grip.

No_Know

[kfson]

What surprised me most about the skin grabbing was my response. I lost my mental calmness and thought the guy was a girly-man. It is a kind of catty feminine move. It peed me off. It's a good technique against the uninformed... I congratulated him on his ability to knock me down mentally.

If I relax into the grip ala Taiji, it gives the opponent more skin and a better grip.
But if I tighten up at the grasp, it reduces area of skin grip. Here, though, he has achieved body rigidity.
If I punch, it will give him tremendous power in his direction to rip.

All I can think of doing is moving toward his center and the opposite shoulder. Do you think this would be in the direction of the weak side/direction of his hand and arm eliminating power of both ripping and twisting?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm a ferocious pincher:D

Your purple nipple move is reknown in the 48 states !

[Lee Chiang Po]

I quickly found that grabbing muscle or bone might not be beneficial to me as the person might be strong enough to over come it. Soft tissue such as face cheeks, lips, and the eye lids can be extremely delicate. The ears are to most people, but I almost pulled a fellows ear off once and he was still hammering on me while I was doing it. It is not a real good move.
The spare tire that most everyone seems to have, or the soft tissue over and just above the hip bones is extremely tender. Rolling the flesh up with these fingers tends to pulverize it to some extent and bruises horribly. The pain is more than most people can handle, and it would be a tremendous feat of ignoring pain for someone to hit you while you are inflicting such pain on them. If a person had you down and was on top of your, this move could render him helpless for the instant it would take to buck him off you. And if you were to reach up and grab a face cheek or a hand full of lips he would come of quickly.
Agreed, these are rather vicious techniques, but better he than thee. If you are in a very serious situation and are just before becoming a statistic, anything you do is fair. Small joint locks and bars are also very painful and work quite well, but they are also illegal in ring fighting. In a self defense situation you never go for a submission. If someone submits, he will only resume the attack once you let him go. People learn slowly sometimes. You simply break the wrist or arm once you get the hold on him. This is a garantee to stop a fight.

[David Jamieson]

Your purple nipple move is reknown in the 48 states !

what if he means loafs?

:p

[banditshaw]

We do lots of finger conditioning from grabbing steel shot bags and tiger claw push ups. It's also good to strengthen your wrists also. In Gung Gee the part where you do the three Tiger Claws you rip down and pinch your fingers together in a fist. All seizing and grabbing techniques.
My sifu has demonstrated the pinch on me many times and yes I whimpered like a girlie man. The underside of the arm, sides of your stomach and lower ribs area hurt especially. It does help to have a rock hard body I suppose.

[uki]

it would be interesting to see the claw used in that setting....ya... all those wannabe tough guy's would be squealing like a stuck pig wanting to run down the hill and drown themselves in the water. :)

[Hardwork108]

Holy Cow!
Lately I've been fighting a man who is expert at grabbing skin in the triceps and chest area then pulling and twisting.
After he makes the grab, I lean in so he has less force/angle/length to pull. When that happens he twists the skin.
This is new to me.

I believe that grabbing the skin is just another expression of Chin-na. A rich and profound art that needs to be studied and explored further by aspiring TCMA-ists.

Once you study further then the necessary defenses become more and more apparent.....

[goju]

ya... all those wannabe tough guy's would be squealing like a stuck pig wanting to run down the hill and drown themselves in the water. :)


that would be hilarious to see a tap by purple nurple LOL

[Lucas]

" And Goju wins his Amature MMA debute by....submission via purple nurple? "

[goju]

and i would intimidate my other opponents by standing across the cage from them during the announcements cringing and making a clawing twisting motion in the air LOL

[Lucas]

and i would intimidate my other opponents by standing across the cage from them during the announcements cringing and making a clawing twisting motion in the air LOL

in horse stance of course.

[uki]

adding the dimension of clawing and ripping would effectively nullify the McMA's ground game... LOL... i really don't understand how people actually believe McMA is considered "real" fighting - in a real fight i am going for the throat and it ain't for a choke hold... perhaps we can called the technique, transplanting the adams apple. :D

[uki]

i am sure everyone thinks i believe myself to be some kind of super hero, this is not the case(although i am sure i can fight my way out of a wet paper bag) :D

i spout these concepts and ideals as a measure of counter-response to what currently exists in order to keep myself sane. by exposing the oppositional ends of each stick, i believe i help to bring balance to the paradigm of martial arts. it is simply an intentional mentality, a way of being and exisiting... anyhow, i am sure there are plenty of people out there that would like to choke the living sh!t out of me, but it's all fun and games mate. :p

[SPJ]

Holy Cow!
Lately I've been fighting a man who is expert at grabbing skin in the triceps and chest area then pulling and twisting.
After he makes the grab, I lean in so he has less force/angle/length to pull. When that happens he twists the skin.
This is new to me.

if someone grabs on you, you use your other hand to press on his grabbing hand and bend his knuckles or wrist joint by lowering your posture and moving either forward or backward

the pain would make him let go

qin na 101

---

[bawang]

grabbing the chest skin and twisting is a ancient technique called the purple nurple

if do right
no can defend

[ChinoXL]

me - bjj blue belt went up against a kung-fu guy who did the skin grabbing ripping.. that ****s a *****!! at the end of the match I submitted him but I had black/blue's everywhere - under my arm.. my love handles.. everything.. only thing that prevented me from laying elbows on the guy is cuz he's my friend.. dirty kung-fu guy :(

p.s. certain areas they grab u - you jump.. he even went for my fun bag ..

[KTS]

seems to be a great time to bring up part of an interveiw with Marcus Brinkman about Hong YiXiang. this excerpt dives into a bit of detail about another level of "gripping."....

JAMA: Could you elaborate as to his sticking and adhering skills?

MB: Hong's sticking and adhering skills were unlike anything i had previously seen. Upon contact, he was able to grab the skin and use it as a body handle. This kind of body handle affords exceptional control over an opponent. The underlying fascia, which weaves into the supporting skeletal frame, may be accessed with a flesh entwining hand maneuver similar to that used by Chinese bonesetters and masseurs. The entwining begins with a vigorous rub which quickly changes to a tight winding up of any excess , loose flesh. Hong would use this as a set up, and, in mid-course change the skin handle to a short, open-handed palm strike. Just as easily he would lead his victims to and fro, paralyzed in his grip. He was able to grasp the flesh on most any part of the human anatomy, including under the arms, around the chest and even on the face and cheeks. He claimed to be able to tear flesh in this fashion, and, though i had never witnessed such, i believe he possessed the power to do so.

[kfson]

if someone grabs on you, you use your other hand to press on his grabbing hand and bend his knuckles or wrist joint by lowering your posture and moving either forward or backward

the pain would make him let go

qin na 101

---

You are correct, when you're fighting slow motion.

[Dragonzbane76]

to be fair...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i am sure everyone thinks i believe myself to be some kind of super hero, this is not the case(although i am sure i can fight my way out of a wet paper bag)

i spout these concepts and ideals as a measure of counter-response to what currently exists in order to keep myself sane. by exposing the oppositional ends of each stick, i believe i help to bring balance to the paradigm of martial arts. it is simply an intentional mentality, a way of being and exisiting... anyhow, i am sure there are plenty of people out there that would like to choke the living sh!t out of me, but it's all fun and games mate.

are you drunk? :eek: or is hell freezing over for an admission of hey i don't know everything coming from you?

[YouKnowWho]

if someone grabs on you,

The best counter is to punch at the shoulder of your opponent's grabbing hand "統 (Tong)", at the same time to use the other hand to strike back on his grabbing hand wrist "撕 (Si)". The skin grabbing usually last for very short period of time. The purpose is to move your body and force you to response.

[uki]

The best counter is to punch at the shoulder of your opponent's grabbing hand "統 (Tong)", at the same time to use the other hand to strike back on his grabbing hand wrist "撕 (Si)". The skin grabbing usually last for very short period of time. The purpose is to move your body and force you to response.why make it so technical? LOL... just headbutt them. :D

[Dale Dugas]

better yet, just shoot them.

[goju]

why not all of the above:D

[Lee Chiang Po]

You don't just reach and grab someone like that. When you use this technique it would be when your opponent has his hands busy. And you don't do it as a lone technique. It is used to enter into another technique or hold. It can be used as a method of simply destroying an opponent if you do it right. If you grab a persons face it will usually be his cheeks or his lips or nose. The lips and cheeks are extremely vulnerable, and once you have a grip on him he can do nothing but scream and soil himself. He will not be able to do anything to break the hold unless he is really cranked up on speed or something. The only techniques that would be more savage would be kill hand techniques, which of course could lead to death.

[SAAMAG]

Punch him in the face next time, that may loosen his grip.
:D

I don't know why this is so funny but I laughed outloud when I read it. :D

[YouKnowWho]

Punch him in the face next time, that may loosen his grip.
:D

Sometime you can't reach to his face. For example,

- Both you and your opponent have right side forward.
- You use your back left hand to grab on your opponent leading right wrist.
- You then use your right hand to grab his leading upper right arm inside skin.
- You pull his leading right arm downward and toward you.
- You step to your left (his right).

At this moment, his back left arm is jamed by his leading right arm (cannot punch you). His leading right arm is controlled by both of your hands (one hand on his wrist, another hand on his upper arm skin). You are on his "blind spot (side door)".

[SAAMAG]

Annnnd you can't use your lead leg to kick his lead leg? You can't go with the energy driving your arm down as you perform a gen den (shoulder attack)? To be honest, if he's using his REAR hand to attack your LEAD hand, then that in and of itself is something that should be easily sensed and countered before the rest of his intention comes to fruition.

Just remember that people have four limbs, and there are other things you can do to release someone's grip on you. Try using distance and timing to outsmart the guy. You've sparred him before it seems, and so you should be able to read him somewhat I would think by now.

[YouKnowWho]

If your opponent pulls your leading arm 45 degree downward, you will have more weight to put on your front leg. It will be difficult to kick that leading leg out at that short moment. You back leg will also have the same problem as your back arm which is also jamed by your front leg (since your opponent is on your side door - a blind spot).

This strategy is commonly used in boxing ring. You keep moving toward your opponent's side door so his powerful back hand hook punch will not be able to reach you. If you move toward his front door (the opposite direction), his back hand hook punch can meet you half way and you will run into his punch instead.

[tattooedmonk]

Hello.....:rolleyes: arent you guys just talking about Chin Na??

[Drake]

Honestly, it causes pain. If you can deal with pain, the impact is pretty much nil. Twist my skin? Cause a bruise, scratch, or even a *gasp* cut? Meanwhile, I'll be knocking your block off. I have NEVER trained to cause pain, because it's generally worthless. Either go for injuring/crippling strikes, or grapple in a manner that cuts off blood flow. Unless you like fights that go on forever.

Unless you are fighting a complete pansy who can't stand some sensory response, it won't work well. Better yet, try that one someone who has their adreneline flowing, or worse yet, is under the influence of drugs.

[MasterKiller]

http://svalko.org/data/2010_03_05_09_36_svalko_org_data_2010_03_04_14_47_ 355972_1.gif

[Lee Chiang Po]

Honestly, it causes pain. If you can deal with pain, the impact is pretty much nil. Twist my skin? Cause a bruise, scratch, or even a *gasp* cut? Meanwhile, I'll be knocking your block off. I have NEVER trained to cause pain, because it's generally worthless. Either go for injuring/crippling strikes, or grapple in a manner that cuts off blood flow. Unless you like fights that go on forever.

Unless you are fighting a complete pansy who can't stand some sensory response, it won't work well. Better yet, try that one someone who has their adreneline flowing, or worse yet, is under the influence of drugs.

It is obvious that you have never been grabbed that way. Grabbing the love handles is an emergency measure mostly, but grabbing ones face, as in his lips or his cheeks, is pain that you could not endure. No one can. The last thing on earth you would think of would be throwing a punch. Just imagine being drug out of a Churches Fried Chicken by your lips. You would have to throw those underwear away.

[Drake]

It is obvious that you have never been grabbed that way. Grabbing the love handles is an emergency measure mostly, but grabbing ones face, as in his lips or his cheeks, is pain that you could not endure. No one can. The last thing on earth you would think of would be throwing a punch. Just imagine being drug out of a Churches Fried Chicken by your lips. You would have to throw those underwear away.

It's obvious you never tried it on someone with a resistance to pain. Been there, done that.

[goju]

a good claw will keep you from doing much look at ross description of his sifus grip in that thread he made for him

obviously if you have a weak claw then there is no point in it

[uki]

It's obvious you never tried it on someone with a resistance to pain. Been there, done that.drake the army of one super cyborg... i bet i could hurt you. :rolleyes:

[Drake]

drake the army of one super cyborg... i bet i could hurt you. :rolleyes:

Oh, I'm sure you could cause me pain. But I'm also sure I can deal with it. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sometime you can't reach to his face. For example,

- Both you and your opponent have right side forward.
- You use your back left hand to grab on your opponent leading right wrist.
- You then use your right hand to grab his leading upper right arm inside skin.
- You pull his leading right arm downward and toward you.
- You step to your left (his right).

At this moment, his back left arm is jamed by his leading right arm (cannot punch you). His leading right arm is controlled by both of your hands (one hand on his wrist, another hand on his upper arm skin). You are on his "blind spot (side door)".

The you deserve to get beat and he deserves to win.