My White Crane

[Minghequan]

I been actively pursuing the Oriental Martial Arts since January 1972 commencing in Shotokan Karate-Do. I went on to explore Matsumura Shorin-Ryu Karatedo and Okinawan/Chinese Hakutsuru which I studied on Okinawa with Yabiku Takaya Sensei. Realizing the need to take my personal exploration far deeper than this meeting would allow, I gave up my ranking in Karatedo, Kobudo and Hakutsuru to explore the Chinese martial arts. This led me to a 6 year study and friendship with Shaolin Baihe Teacher Shifu Nian Chen Fai and senior Chun Ho.

April 1988 saw myself awarded Internal Arts Instructor Accreditation with the World Taiji Boxing Association.

Moving on in his studies of the Chinese arts, I linked up of Shifu Gu-Ping 師父谷平 of Guangdong Province China in 2000, a relationship that continues to this day. Since 1998, I has been a follower of Grandmaster Yap Leong of the Shaolin Fists International. I was recognised as a Shifu 師父/Instructor of White Crane Gongfu/Wushu by the China Martial Arts Association of China. The China Martial Arts Association China.Government University Beijing and China Government Central Party Academy and China Government University in Beijing consists of Grandmaster Mu Xian Jie, President Zhan Shan, Grandmaster He Fu Sheng, Grandmaster Liu Wan Fu, Grandmaster Wang Feng Zhu, Grandmaster Professor Dr. Gu Ping.

In 2003 I found and linked up with Great Master Ruan Dong of Fuzhou Calling White Crane with Shifu Dong agreeing to become the Patron and Technical Master/Advisor to myself and the White Crane Research Institute. One of my students visited Great Master Ruan Dong for lesson and returned to pass on that which he had learned during his time in China.

As it stands another of my members is currently in China and has learned from Great Master Ruan Dong passing on several valuable resources and will return with his training to also pas it on. I continue to research this link by going deeper and wider.

I have continued to research and learn led which led me to the inspiration and the rockbed that is “Baihe Jingqishen Quantao” ~ White Crane Essence Energy Spirit Fist Way. In order to understand Martial Arts in-depth it is not enough to simply practice … one also has to research deeply the basis for the foundation of one's chosen art form. I have been continually researching the martial arts for most of his 39 years involvement with this research yielding a great amount of information. In 1988 I began my studies of Dim-Mak (Chinese Pressure Point Art Form) and related practices and continues along this pathway of learning. My research is not only for his own benefit of knowledge, but for the benefit of others who may choose to walk this martial path with Me. I am an instructor who keeps himself to himself. I is known for his Kung-Fu only to a limited number of people. teaching at a private school.

I am the Australian White Crane Boxing Dissemination Branch Director and Representative of the prestigious YongChun YiYun Wushu Research Society.

As part of my research, I was introduced to “Reiki” (霊気) and other Energy Healing Arts. I have made the connection between these Arts and has since taken my research to a point where I can act competently as a healer.

I entered into the world of semi-professional writing and was a writer for magazines such as Blitz Martial Arts Magazine, Bujutsu International Magazine and an International Correspondent for two United Kingdom-based martial arts magazines, Traditional Karate and Combat Magazines.

The WCRI are members of the Martial Arts Industry Association (Membership No. 414), the peak association for martial arts in Australia as recognised by the Australian Government.I offer private, hands-on instruction to a select and dedicated few via my Closed Door Wushu Guan in Wellington NSW Australia.

I am also a fully Accredited Sanshou Judge/Official under the Accrediataion Scheme administered by the Australian Kung-Fu (Wushu) Federation and the Australian Sports Commission.

I am also a member and recognized teacher of White Crane Gongfu/Wushu with the World Kuoshu Federation.

[Minghequan]

It also seems to me that grades within the martial arts are only designed for those that kick, punch, and shout. There does not appear to be any grade awarded to those that seriously study martial arts in-depth and dedicate their lives in pursuit of these same arts. Ranks and titles do not exist for those who seek the essence of the arts.

We do not need them as we are far too busy living the life rather than looking for recognition and reward. Those of us actually walking the path find this is enough reward. This is a reward far beyond the external embroidery that ranks and titles bring with them. Such externally ego bound aspects are for the followers not the leaders of the martial arts. Such people need to belong to something rather than for those of us that see no reason to belong to anything in order to justify our existence and exploration of the art. Ranks and titles, belts and external embroidery are grades for those that follow the martial path rather than create their own unique martial path.

Not really considering myself as an expert in the Chinese combative traditions my preoccupation with them has however, progressively escalated since my childhood.

Many hard, arduous and lengthy hours, months, years of continued study, research, training and refinement have gone into the collective syllabus of the White Crane Research Institute including the study of rare manuscripts made available to us via Master Su YingHanof the YongChun YiYun Wushu Research Society (YongChun Joy Cloud Martial Arts Research Board/Society) and footage given to me by Great Master Ruan Dong of Fuzhou, China. A great many hours, burning the candle at both ends and “night porridge” has been placed in the study of Chinese texts and rare footage of the old masters, Crane players from a generation soon to disappear, performing their arts for prosperity.

A great deal of walking the martial pathway to the heart of White Crane Boxing has been undertaken by myself.

I am something of an eccentric and therefore my views have spilled over into the art I research and study. This is the natural way of things. I am considered a rebel because of my views regarding the martial arts. I make no apology for this as this is as it is.

In my own school I teach Baihequan in non-traditional manner, which means I have added some fighting tactics, basic kicks, and few other elements to make practice more interesting and beneficial for students. I don't need to "defend" what I do. I am not here to win a popularity contest. Anytime someone steps outside the box to take a stand that is different from the accepted practice is reason enough to be criticized by others, and no where is this more evident than in the martial arts. Having come up through the ranks since childhood (during the seventies) and having stayed active for the past 39 years or so --- along with going to extremes to better understand what has remained terribly ambiguous, unsystematized and relatively incoherent (particularly with regards to the study of Taolu/Xing) I and those who choose to walk this path with me remain happy. I see myself as a seasoned veteran, no longer willing to accept and or swallow the ignorance, arrogance and incongruous practices so widespread in this tradition. I’d guess that the idea of “legit,” or “authentic” martial arts, is probably based upon the Chinese tradition (Okinawan/Japanese also have a similar motif) --- pedigree/lineage; i.e., if your style IS NOT connected directly (or possibly even indirectly) to some “original” Chinese/Asian tradition then it's NOT legit/authentic! The idea of functionality has long been reason for some of us seniors to re-evaluate many of the long-established practices of traditional Wushu. Much of it has to do with the contextual premise that technique is supposed to work against. Such “re-evaluation” has, without question, given birth to a myriad of eclectic Wushu-like “traditions.” Some of this Western-based eclecticism has been done within the accepted boundaries of Chinese cultural landscape and social mindset, some has not and then there’s stuff that is way out there. I am sure that one could even argue that even the most accepted Chinese traditions (Wushu, Gongfu) are eclectic by nature. The Martial Arts industry (of which Wushu is a part) is largely unregulated. Based purely on this one issue alone I don’t believe there’s anything stopping anyone “making up something” and calling it whatever they want. My ongoing comparative study with progenitor forms (Fuzhou, YongChun, Shaolin), has given me much to consider when trying to accurately evaluate the essence, energy and spirit of same. I am largely a self made man and proud of it. A seeker not a follower.

I do not seek to be well known, entering tournaments, making books after books and DVD’s after DVD’s, nor appearing in countless magazine articles and I have no interest in the world.

[Minghequan]

The White Crane Research Institute is a grouping together of people in a study group dedicated to the White Crane Essence Energy Spirit Fist Way of Gongfu / Wushu martial arts politics. I simply practice my art and am all the more happier for it.

The Art-form in question is Baihe Jingqishen Quantao or "White Crane Essence Energy Spirit Fist Way" - a study and collection of time-honoured White Crane-based exercises, techniques and forms that originate from faraway villages in Fujian - a south eastern province of mainland China.

The White Crane Research Institute (Incorporation Number INC9874707) is a non-profit association as registered with the Australian Department of Fair Trading and as such places no emphasis on monetary concerns. The exploration of the art is all that we are concerned about.

Our aim is to research the various aspects of the White Crane arts. The White Crane Research Institute is a member with honor of the World Kuoshu Federation and the Martial Arts Industry Association.

The White Crane Research Institute is a private non-profit Closed Door school of martial arts. Membership and training is open to a select dedicated and spirited few. We are a study/research group dedicated to the spirit and essence of White Crane. The White Crane Research Institute encompasses a study of Chinese Shaolin and Calling Crane Wushu, Chinese Weaponry, Tai Chi, Chi-Gong/Qigong and Healing Arts (Reiki & Seichim).

We follow the teachings of Sifu Ruan Dong of Fuzhou Fujian China who has agreed to be our Master/Advisor. This has resulted in an exchange of rare and highly regarded training information and resources. Great Master Ruan Dong has offered us access to a number of highly prized resources and guidance regarding the Calling White Crane art and continues to guide us in our studies and on-going research.It is our sincere aim to continue to explore the martial arts unfettered by the politics, ego and other like-distractions normally associated with the martial arts world.

Our art is a a collection of time-honoured Crane-based exercises that originate from faraway villages in Fujian a south-eastern province of Mainland China.

Our art essentially refers to Traditional and Classical Chinese Martial Arts based upon the local and indigenous culture of Fuzhou both the City and the outlying area which the locals call Fuzhou Area as well as Guangzhou, Guandong Province.

Neither a style of Chinese Wushu (traditional Chinese martial arts) not a system of Chinese gongfu, it is a collection of concepts and principals expressed by way of various Forms (taolu) and two-person training methodologies. The White Crane Research Institute exists to explore the wonderment and depth of the White Crane art and seek to join in research and study with those interested in joining with us on our pathway to the Martial Arts.

The White Crane Research Institute shall remain a small a non-profit, non-commercial association of people seeking something more from their involvement within the martial arts. It will remain as an association for people, not "martial artists.

The White Crane Research Institute is dedicated to excellence in the research of our White Crane Gongfu art. The White Crane fighting arts system that we teach in our club is very strongly influenced from the Whooping Crane art of Great Master Ruan Dong and our studies of the Shaolin Baihe of Shifu Chen Fai and Shifu Gu-Ping. We call our art "White Crane Jingqishen Quantao". The White Crane Research Institute does not claim any direct lineage over hundreds of years like lots of other clubs do, after all if nobody had further developed each style, we would not have the rich wide range of styles that exist today. China has so many unseen heroes that have never been seen in the West never mind made famous and their martial arts are a way of life to them not a commercial product. In reality all martial form are constantly changing to meet modern demands while keeping the original essence and character of the art. The mentality, the essence of the arts are creative.


"The arts are alive and creative. In Chinese philosophy, if an art is not creative, then the art is dead. It is also because the art is creative that, after hundreds of years of development and creation, there can be many styles of the same art." ~ Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming, Shaolin White Crane Master.

No claim is made to be studying or teaching the exact Minghequan tradition. We seek the spirit of White Crane hence the name of our teachings being Baihe Jingshen Quantao or White Crane Spirit Fist Way.

Our study group uses a number of resources at hand in order to look into the essence of White Crane as a valid martial arts form. Such resources include written notes, DVD's and hands-on interpretation and instruction in same.

The WCRI Study Group is made up of members of the public who seek the essence and spirit of the White Crane arts.

Meeting on a regular basis, the techniques, forms and applications of the essence of White Crane is what we focus upon.

Techniques and forms are researched in depth and all aspects are considered before being put in to practice.
We believe that White Crane should be practiced in as natural manner as possible as such we do not subscribe to the harder, more “Karate-Like”, external practices sometimes seen within the White Crane world. The White Crane is a natural, free-flowing bird whose movements are filled with great grace and beauty. It does not move in a staccato fashion.

What the WCRI Group really is a gathering of martial arts enthusiasts unencumbered by the world of martial arts politics, back-biting, ranks, titles and whose who. The members of our study groups are more concerned with the in-depth research, understanding and practice of the martial arts themselves rather than the misfortune of the politics and ego's which surround it.

IMPORTANT: At no time do we within the White Crane Research Institute and WCRI Study Group lay any claim to be teaching the exact White Crane art. Our teachings are as a result of our continuing research, practice and internalisation of the principles, spirit and essence of White Crane!

Should you have any questions or comments arising from what you read here (or, for that matter, anywhere else) then please do not hesitate to make contact with me and I will do my best to answer you!

[Penfold]

...............:rolleyes:

[TenTigers]

yeah? Ya lost me at Reiki....












just messin with you.

[David Jamieson]

written dissertations can really be a bane to martial arts practice.

do you have any video that shows what's done?

[Minghequan]

Hi David,

Yes I can see your point. I guess what I am getting at in my usual long winded way is that my White Crane Boxing is truly my own and that I am a self-made man in this regards. Much in the same way as my friend Fong Lee (a well known Oz Martial Artist).

At the moment I have no footage of my way but this is something I hope to have done in the coming month.

[Hendrik]

Hi David,

Yes I can see your point. I guess what I am getting at in my usual long winded way is that my White Crane Boxing is truly my own and that I am a self-made man in this regards. Much in the same way as my friend Fong Lee (a well known Oz Martial Artist).

At the moment I have no footage of my way but this is something I hope to have done in the coming month.


Please explain what do you mean by "my White Crane Boxing is truly my own and that I am a self-made man".

You create your own White Crane Boxing?

[Minghequan]

"Our White Crane is not based on what you think, It is based on what it is"

Hello Hendrik,

Yes it is our own. Meaning that I have taken form my teachers, my Masters/Technical Advisers and made the art my own. Each of us brings to the art our own inherent personalities and physicality thus making it "our own". This is true within accepted styles and disciplines. It is the element of growth within an art.

Whilst Minghequan (Calling Crane Fist) serves as the basis for our studies, other forms of White Crane Boxing such as Feeding Crane Fist 食鶴拳 and Shaking Crane Fist 宿鶴拳 have had a significant impact on that which we study and impart via our schools.


In my own school I teach Baihequan in non-traditional manner, which means I have added some fighting tactics, basic kicks, and few other elements to make practice more interesting and beneficial for students. I don't need to "defend" what I do. I am not here to win a popularity contest. Anytime someone steps outside the box to take a stand that is different from the accepted practice is reason enough to be criticized by others, and no where is this more evident than in the martial arts. Having come up through the ranks since childhood (during the seventies) and having stayed active for the past 39 years or so --- along with going to extremes to better understand what has remained terribly ambiguous, unsystematized and relatively incoherent (particularly with regards to the study of Taolu/Xing) I and those who choose to walk this path with me remain happy. I see myself as a seasoned veteran, no longer willing to accept and or swallow the ignorance, arrogance and incongruous practices so widespread in this tradition. I’d guess that the idea of “legit,” or “authentic” martial arts, is probably based upon the Chinese tradition (Okinawan/Japanese also have a similar motif) --- pedigree/lineage; i.e., if your style IS NOT connected directly (or possibly even indirectly) to some “original” Chinese/Asian tradition then it's NOT legit/authentic! The idea of functionality has long been reason for some of us seniors to re-evaluate many of the long-established practices of traditional Wushu. Much of it has to do with the contextual premise that technique is supposed to work against. Such “re-evaluation” has, without question, given birth to a myriad of eclectic Wushu-like “traditions.” Some of this Western-based eclecticism has been done within the accepted boundaries of Chinese cultural landscape and social mindset, some has not and then there’s stuff that is way out there. I am sure that one could even argue that even the most accepted Chinese traditions (Wushu, Gongfu) are eclectic by nature. The Martial Arts industry (of which Wushu is a part) is largely unregulated. Based purely on this one issue alone I don’t believe there’s anything stopping anyone “making up something” and calling it whatever they want. My ongoing comparative study with progenitor forms (Fuzhou, YongChun, Shaolin), has given me much to consider when trying to accurately evaluate the essence, energy and spirit of same.

As I understand it your a Wing Chun Man right, is not your Wing Chun influenced by yourself? Is not your Wing Chun your own?

[Blacktiger]

From memory I thought the very same questions popped up over this a few years ago.

Search for the thread "Ruan Dong" started by Mashi from 2006 which ended up locked.

:confused:

[David Jamieson]

Hi David,

Yes I can see your point. I guess what I am getting at in my usual long winded way is that my White Crane Boxing is truly my own and that I am a self-made man in this regards. Much in the same way as my friend Fong Lee (a well known Oz Martial Artist).

At the moment I have no footage of my way but this is something I hope to have done in the coming month.

would be cool to see a set, perhaps a class in progress, a weapon demo and maybe some sparring or competition fighting if any.

Do you have any proficient students that can demonstrate some of the more difficult stuff?

[Minghequan]

Hi David,

Yes I plan to film all our Taolu as well as a breakdown of each using myself and my students. Will post it on Youtube when done. Thanks for your interest.

[Blacktiger]

Cool....

So correct me if I am wrong here, Im just basing this on what I have read from your info.

So you dont train with any of the masters or organisations you have mentioned directly i.e in person.

But through correspondence etc and have then come up with your own white crane style based on this ... is that correct?

[Minghequan]

Good to see your not letting polictics and such enter into this discussion.

No, to explain, I trained with Nian Chen Fai for six years on and off learning his Shaolin Crane four forms (Babulian, Ershibabu, ZhongKuan and his own FangQiniang Shou). I believe his style is somehow an offshoot of the Huang Shen Shyan form of White Crane but cannot offer more on this.

I sought out further information to establish my school and to take these teachings further and this is where Great Master Ruan Dong as my patron and Master/Technical Adviser and Master Su YingHan (Master/Technical/Adviser) came in and continue to assist me to this day. In fact I was recently awarded the appointment of White Crane Dissemination Director for Australia by the YongChun YiYun Wushu (White Crane ) Society.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9291/appointment1.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2703/appointment2.jpg



Both of these great men have been very kind and forthcoming with guidance and information. But yes you are correct, I have researched and taken my original learning further my school is my own with recognition from China.

[Blacktiger]

Ok cool...think I have it :)

So you did 6 years of white crane and then contacted the orgs you have mentioned for advice/assistance.

And those organisations recognise that you are more of a white crane interest group rather than actually being connected with them as you have never actually trained with them directly as a student?

Otherwise you would have been to china or they would have been to Oz right?

[Minghequan]

That's about it in a nutshell. So pleased to be able to discuss the martial arts without the usual politics. Thanks Blacktiger, much appreciated.

The only difference is the YongChun YiYun Wushu Society recognises my White Crane and I as teacher but that's no big deal as far as I am concerned, happy continuing to learn and research!

* Edited for spelling.

[Hendrik]

"Our White Crane is not based on what you think, It is based on what it is"

Hello Hendrik,

Yes it is our own. Meaning that I have taken form my teachers, my Masters/Technical Advisers and made the art my own. Each of us brings to the art our own inherent personalities and physicality thus making it "our own". This is true within accepted styles and disciplines. It is the element of growth within an art.


As I understand it your a Wing Chun Man right, is not your Wing Chun influenced by yourself? Is not your Wing Chun your own?

1, Thanks for the explanation.

2, I am not a Wing Chun Man. I am a nature man.

My Wing chun is according to the ancestors it is not my own, for I am not the person who created Wing Chun or the lineage of WCK I am studying.

[Minghequan]

Sorry Hendrik, no desire to offend, I meant that you do Wing Chun only. How do you view Wing Chun and White Crane? Do you feel they have shared histories, principles?

[Hendrik]

Sorry Hendrik, no desire to offend, I meant that you do Wing Chun only. How do you view Wing Chun and White Crane? Do you feel they have shared histories, principles?


No offend at all. No need to appology.

I learn different type of MA so not only WCK.

Wing Chun is a fusion of White Crane pre 1800 + Emei 12 zhuang. That is what my ancestor's writing indicate.

The center line and lots of application principle of WCK is from White Crane of Fujian; however, the power generation and close body application is unique due to WCK is using the Emei 12 Zhuang internal art engine.

if you are interested in my post on White Crane and WCK, do a search in this forum.

[Minghequan]

Thanks Hendrik, will do.

[kung fu fighter]

The center line and lots of application principle of WCK is from White Crane of Fujian; however, the power generation and close body application is unique due to WCK is using the Emei 12 Zhuang internal art engine.


Most southern arts use the waist and spine to generate power including Fujian White Crane, bak mei, southern praying mantis, Lung Ying etc. Even Tai chi uses the body the same way to fa jin. How do you generate power using Emei 12 Zhuang internal art engine differently than in these arts?

[Penfold]

Hey Ronald,

You sent me this picture in an private message on Ozmaforums,

http://img502.imageshack.us/i/groupphotoh.jpg/

You proudly marked yourself in red pen for me telling me how you went there and that you were the guest of honor.

Can you confirm that this is you?

The picture is dated 22nd November 2009, does anyone have the contact details for sifu Su yinghan. I would like to confirm that you were telling the truth.

If you deny it Ronald i'll post the private message.

Penfold:)

[Dragonzbane76]

hum???
must have missed something with above post.

[TenTigers]

do I detect a personal vendetta?

[taai gihk yahn]

do I detect a personal vendetta?

on the Forum? In the Southern section?!? There's na way, lad!!!

[Hendrik]

Most southern arts use the waist and spine to generate power including Fujian White Crane, bak mei, southern praying mantis, Lung Ying etc. Even Tai chi uses the body the same way to fa jin. How do you generate power using Emei 12 Zhuang internal art engine differently than in these arts?



What you think as power might not be what it is.
And generalization is a biggest trouble and misleading. There are lots of things most people dont know the detials today.

IE: The eating Crane or Sher Her doesnt use the same power generation with the rushing Crane Choong Her......etc. The Chun Jin Jie Lik of the pre 1800 another different thing.


I have just reveal a small part of my SLT Kuen Kuit to the public in the WCK forum.

[Dragonzbane76]

I have just reveal a small part of my SLT Kuen Kuit to the public in the WCK forum.

gasp... assassins are in route to your house.....:rolleyes:

[kung fu fighter]

What you think as power might not be what it is.
And generalization is a biggest trouble and misleading. There are lots of things most people dont know the detials today.

IE: The eating Crane or Sher Her doesnt use the same power generation with the rushing Crane Choong Her......etc. The Chun Jin Jie Lik of the pre 1800 another different thing.


I have just reveal a small part of my SLT Kuen Kuit to the public in the WCK forum.

Have you personnally attained this type of the Emei 12 Zhuang internal art engine power generation, or are you on the path still seeking it, If you have attained it please share.

[Blacktiger]

gasp... assassins are in route to your house.....:rolleyes:

This thread is becoming weirder by the hour, have a feeling we are not done yet either :rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

This thread is becoming weirder by the hour, have a feeling we are not done yet either :rolleyes:

for this Forum? man, we ain't even half-way to weird yet...

[Blacktiger]

for this Forum? man, we ain't even half-way to weird yet...

LOL - grab the popcorn

[blackjesus]

Haha Blacktiger, I'm putting the kettle on and will serve you some Pu-erh Tea.

[Penfold]

Hey Ronald, :)

This is a straightforward question.

Don’t go off the deep end calling me a troll and the likes, just an honest answer.

Quotes from your website.


“The White Crane Research Institute is now accepted as original and from the same lineage by Yong Chun White Crane Wushu”.

Are you claiming Yongchun Crane style lineage?

Simple yes or no will suffice.


"Our Chief Instructor Shifu Ron Goninan has been officially commissioned by the Fujian Yong Chun YiYun Wushu Society (China) to disseminate White Crane in Australia”.

As the Chief Instructor/disseminator, what Yongchun forms do you do?

Penfold :)

[Hendrik]

Have you personnally attained this type of the Emei 12 Zhuang internal art engine power generation, or are you on the path still seeking it, If you have attained it please share.


Those who doesnt have the foundation doesnt realize it even it was totally naketly place infront of one's eyes. Thus, sharing is a two way street.

[Dragonzbane76]

Emei 12 Zhuang internal art engine power generation

sounds like the engine of a european sports car or something along those lines. :)

[TenTigers]

"Totally Naketly!" -:DI'm going to have to use that.....somewhere...:D

[Blacktiger]

Hey Ronald, :)

This is a straightforward question.

Don’t go off the deep end calling me a troll and the likes, just an honest answer.

Quotes from your website.



Are you claiming Yongchun Crane style lineage?

Simple yes or no will suffice.



As the Chief Instructor/disseminator, what Yongchun forms do you do?

Penfold :)

The info he providied to me was that he has never trained with any of the masters or organisations mentioned directly i.e in person.

But through correspondence etc has come up with his own white crane style based on this as well as his previous 6 years of training in WC.

How you become recognised to teach something without ever actually training with the players concerned in that style directly is a worry however????

[bawang]

OH NO sdfsdf

[sanjuro_ronin]

So far this thread is civil and some questions were asked that seem to be honest questions.
Keep it civil and non-personal and this thread will be fine.
The orginator of this thread, Ron, has made it clear that HIS WC is just that, HIS WC.
Based on 6 years of WC direct training and further research via correspondence.
A very honest statement that is highly appreciated.
If anyone wishes to put this statement to the test, I suggest you do it in a civil manner.
If I think there is some sort or personal issues going on here I will take action.

Just a reminder that this is the southern kung fu forum and I, your friendly moderator, wield some serious Jing !!

[5thBrother]

I think this was already played out on the Aussie Forums....

And ron, as usual over 35+ years, was proven a Liar... yet again...

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7828/comparea.jpg

http://www.ozmaforums.com/Forums/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1150


as well as his previous 6 years of training in WC.

This is highly questioned by many as more fantasy of ron, than factual,

I think last year )or year before) ron was exposed on Blitz forum (a major aussie MA forum) regarding his so called "6 years" and being qualified as a baihe "sifu" by ANYONE ... apart form an off the internet certificate mill "pay $$ and we'll send u a pretty certifcate of <insert style etc here>... before he was banned from said forums.... which says somethingin itself :P

I think it's also exposed on the above thread from memory.....

Ron has a loooooong history of BS ... from his karate days into more recent years years............ just google it...

No doubt that after so many years of desperate attemps ron has joined a legit association so as to try and legitimize himself..... pay the fees and join the association...............

Most serious aussie/interested martial artists have no problems with ron creating his own style/system of white crane based on self study of dvds and books ... if he would just say it............

on more positive note:

I think ron has alot to offer, after his extensive white crane research in theory, books and videos... EXTENSIVE! ... it's just best to be up front....

just say open and directly - "i have never formally studied white crane under any teacher, but i am self taught from dvd, books etc , a couple of white crane forms from a qigong/taiji teacher.... there's no shame in correspondence courses these days.... or even lets explore / study group together!

I had an electrician here the other day .. and it came about he was qaulified via correspondence... i had 2 leckys (electritions) out last week (one uni qaulified, one was TAFE (aussie "technical college") here who couldn;t fix the problem ... the tafe dude actually said.. i don't know, try this guy (corres. guy) .... this guy fixed it in FIVE MINUTES! .... practical experience etc .... also good on the tafe kid for 1. admitting, 2. not being afraid to recommend anothery lecky

Just be upfront...

and then it's "show me" .... possibly ron has the show me.... after x years self study....... (what i mean is like the uni or tafe lecky above "paper quals" are not ness the be all and end all!)

yes you will lose some potential students... I myself would rather learn in this case Bai He from a qaulified Sifu than a correspondence self taught sifu... but hey that's the way the cookie crumbles.....

[Blacktiger]

LOL - grab the popcorn

Nuff said ;)

[B-Rad]

As a 3rd party observer I do find the number of certifications pretty confusing, and they really muddy up your background. Every time you post there is a new certificate or title you have been "awarded". These white crane groups seem to give certificates out like candy :D Many seem pretty meaningless as they are simply recognition for joining an organization, or participating in some kind of event (basically just proof you paid someone money... like a store receipt). Not sure why those would be posted. The claimed fake photos are strange too. I think if you'd just cut the BS and talk about martial arts in a short and sweet manner on the forum rather than giving long bio's of how you were made official such and such every time you post, you'd attract much less internet stalkers :)

[TenTigers]

Ron, I noticed your style does not contain a samjien set. Is there a similar developmental foundational set in your system thet covers structure, power, breath, etc?

[Blacktiger]

As a 3rd party observer I do find the number of certifications pretty confusing, and they really muddy up your background. Every time you post there is a new certificate or title you have been "awarded". These white crane groups seem to give certificates out like candy :D Many seem pretty meaningless as they are simply recognition for joining an organization, or participating in some kind of event (basically just proof you paid someone money... like a store receipt). Not sure why those would be posted. The claimed fake photos are strange too. I think if you'd just cut the BS and talk about martial arts in a short and sweet manner on the forum rather than giving long bio's of how you were made official such and such every time you post, you'd attract much less internet stalkers :)

My Master was back in Fuzhou in 2006 catchin up with some Ziranmen players and caught up with Master Ruan Dong by chance.

This was a while back but at the time he mentioned that Master Ruan may be coming out to Oz i.e. (my master was going to bring him out for seminars etc round oz)and was asking questions about Rons activities.....not the sort of questions you would be asking if there was a healthy realtionship - lets put it that way.

As 5th brother mentioned this matter has come up a few times so its nothing really new for those in Australia.

Insert twilight zone music here.....

[Minghequan]

Ron, I noticed your style does not contain a samjien set. Is there a similar developmental foundational set in your system thet covers structure, power, breath, etc?

We use the SanZhan sequence seen within the BaBulian (8Steps/Strikes) form. The form as learned from Fai is similar in application/ expression as that seen in the forms of Huang Shen Shyan ... very soft, natural and internal. This is the sequence that you are referring to in your post. Thank you for your question.

[Penfold]

Ronald,

As the "DISSEMINATOR" for Yongchun WC in Australia, what Yongchun forms do you do?

Your website is indicating that you are a part of the Yongchun WC lineage is this true?

Penfold :)

[Penfold]

Ronald,

Your silence says a thousand words.......:o

Penfold :)

[Blacktiger]

http://www.ozmaforums.com/Forums/forums/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=88

:confused:

[Minghequan]

For those interested, here's a list of some (not all) the forms of the YongChun White Crane:

* San Zhan
* Qi Bu San Zhan/Chi Bo San Zhan
* Shi Zhan Bu Yao
* Shi Zhan Tai Bao
* Ba Shou
* Mei Nu Shu Zhuang/Mei Nu Shuzhuang
* Chuan Xin Zhong
* Bai He Shan Jai
* Bai He Ba Fen
* Bai He Zhan Chi
* Xiao Tang Lang Xhao Ri
* Ya Zi Cuan Shui
* Xiao Qian Zi Da
* Da Qian Zi Da

Also:

* Zou Ma Hui Bian (Horse Leading Rods)
* He Chi Shuang Dao (Crane Wing Double Knives)
* Chi Mei Gun (Five Foot Staff Form)
* San Zhan Zi Wu Chui (3 Battles Meridian Hammer)
* Tai Gong Diao Yu Gun (Tai Gong Fishing Rod)

[Minghequan]

I've been actively pursuing the Oriental Martial Arts since January 1972 commencing in Shotokan Karate-Do. I went on to explore Matsumura Shorin-Ryu Karatedo and Chinese/Okinawan Hakutsuru (White Crane) which I studied on Okinawa with Yabiku Takaya Sensei. Realizing the need to take my personal exploration far deeper than this meeting would allow, I gave up my ranking in Karatedo, Kobudo and Hakutsuru to explore the Chinese martial arts. This led me to a 6 year study with Shaolin Baihe Teacher Shifu Nian Chen Fai and senior Chun Ho.

April 1988 saw myself awarded Internal Arts Instructor Accreditation with the World Taiji Boxing Association.

I was recognised as a Shifu 師父 /Instructor of White Crane Gongfu/Wushu by the China Martial Arts Association of China. The China Martial Arts Association China. Government University Beijing and China Government Central Party Academy and China Government University in Beijing consists of Grandmaster Mu Xian Jie, President Zhan Shan, Grandmaster He Fu Sheng, Grandmaster Liu Wan Fu, Grandmaster Wang Feng Zhu, Grandmaster Professor Dr. Gu Ping.

In 2003 I found and linked up with Great Master Ruan Dong of Fuzhou Calling White Crane with Shifu Dong agreeing to become the Patron and Technical Master/Advisor to myself and the White Crane Research Institute.

Recognised in China as a Shifu 師父 Instructor of White Crane Boxing, I serve as the Australian White Crane Boxing Dissemination Branch Director and Representative of the prestigious YongChun YiYun Wushu (White Crane) Research Society 永春怡云武术研究会 based in YongChun, Fujian, China.

I am an Australian Government Recognised Martial Arts Instructor with the Martial Arts Industry Association (MAIA), The peak body for all Australian Martial Arts as certified by RABQSA (http://www.rabqsa.com/) under international standard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RABQSA_International) ISO17024 by the Joint Accreditation System of Australia/New Zealand. I have been accredited for the past 19 years and serve as the Central Western NSW Represenatiave for the MAIA. I am a Level one San Shou Coach/official with the Government recognised Australian Kung Fu Wushu Federation and Australian Sports Commission.

I share this not to laud rank, title or credentials but to simply state where its is I am in relation to my present martial arts involvement

Yes I admit fully and clearly that I have made some mistakes fairly well in the past (where they should reasonably be left) . Some of my own making, some by others with fairly large political, personal and commercially motivated agenda's to push against me. Some of these have been bought on by my rather open views on the martial arts as published on the Internet and as a writer for magazines such as Blitz Martial Arts Magazine, Bujutsu International Magazine and an International Correspondent for two United Kingdom-based martial arts magazines, Traditional Karate and Combat Magazines.

Anytime someone steps outside the box to take a stand that is different from the accepted practice is reason enough to be criticized by others, and no where is this more evident than in the martial arts.

I am something of an eccentric and therefore my views have spilled over into the art I research and study. This is the natural way of things. I am considered a rebel because of my views regarding the martial arts. I make no apology for this as this is as it is. I do not go our of my way to cause offense but simply and hopefully to start debate that may make others think about their own approach to the martial arts spirit.

I do not seek to be well known, entering tournaments, making books after books and DVD’s after DVD’s, nor appearing in countless magazine articles and I have no interest in the world of martial arts politics. I simply practice my art and am all the more happier for it.

I spent almost all my life pursuing a “ghost”; a sometimes you see it and sometimes you don’t kind of ethereal entity. A “ethereal entity” that is Fuzhou White Crane Boxing that has tested me in staying power, patience and all the ups and downs trying to get to the nucleus. What is White Crane Boxing? I guess I will never know for sure and that’s the part that makes it exciting for me, every little finding is fresh and motivationally moves me on.

All I do know is this – that my guides and seniors/advisers, recognizing my quest, charted out a journey for me

I believe instead of only taking from the martial arts, we must also consider putting back into that which has given us personal strength and power. All power and success has to do with putting knowledge into action through mastering the world within.

Radical as they may seem to some, my views and beliefs are based largely upon empirical experience, a unique background and years of training.

That being said I will not enter into further discussion or debate on the topic on ranks, titles and credentials. Especially with those who have bombarded my email address with offensive and childish mails such as has been undertaken by others on this forum who have now been subsequently blocked. I will not reply to negative, petty and personlised politicallly motivated posts. I hope I make this perfectly clear.

If you wish to discuss matters relating to White Crane and our view of same then I most wholeheartedly welcome further discussion. I am here for positive martial arts discussion only. It is as it is, no more, no less.

[Minghequan]

I'm no expert of White Crane, but I do know something about it. In fact, I chose to make the transition to it from Karatedo/Jutsu.

Like many classical southern-based hand-practices, White Crane vigorously defends the perimeter and centreline with their powerful trapping, bridging and limb manipulation skills. The practices are based upon attack trajectories in proximity to one's position and are evident in their two-person drills, their wooden dummy training and defensive applications.

Oftentimes, I’ve been asked about my position on the origin of karate. I firmly do not believe that Karate can be traced back to Fuzhou cranes because most karate folks have little inkling or none at all about this elemental He Quan Quan Jue.

It is clearly reflected in how they move.

The usual “swallowing, spitting, sinking and floating” that you hear about is really more Fukien, like in Fukien White Crane, Ngo Chor, Tai Chor etc and Shaolin.

Fuzhou Crane on the other hand has got the additional “internal” aspect. This is manifested in all our techniques, principles and Fist Poems.

In Fuzhou Crane, we are taught that techniques are just but a manifestation of our fighting principles. Forms are the ways and not the ends. Every drills / forms and 2 man sets are designed to teach the body to behave in a certain manner during a fight. Of course the whole idea is to mimic a crane.

Fuzhou White Crane is not "Karate" nor is it related to "Hakutsuru."

Many within the martial arts world state that there exists a link from Okinawan Karate to that of Fuzhou White Crane but nothing could be further from the truth.

Fuzhou White Crane as a unique art form and tradition has no verifiable link to Okinawan Karate and even less to that which is commonly termed "Hakutsuru."

Okinawans did not get their materials from Fuzhou. They may have acquired it from Fujian / Taiwan or any other part of China but not Fuzhou.

I believe Karate researchers are better off looking at Ngo Chor (5 Elders) and Tai Chor (Grand Ancestor) rather that White Crane per se. These 2 styles are greatly influenced by Fukien White Crane and these could be their original source. The Tiger Kung Fu is the very one that the Uechi Ryu people align themselves with.

Karate contains very little White Crane. There is some Chinese connection but definitely not White Crane. Most Karate folks talk about Fuzhou White Crane but nothing they do comes close. Goju-Ryu seems more aligned to Ngo Chor. Uechi-Ryu would seem to reflect the essence of Tiger Kung Fu within its technical make-up.

Fuzhou White Crane is a totally unique art and is in no way related to modern "Crane Karate" and "Hakutsuru" as taught by other groups.

Their purported Crane kata are nothing like what we do in Fuzhou White Crane – especially in relation to fundamental root dissimilarities and not stylistics. It would seem that the only thing they obtained out of Fuzhou is the names of their katas.

As for "Hakutsuru", a few think that White Crane is just a couple of crane styles blocks and crane beak hand strikes! Much (if not all) of that passed off as "Hakutsuru" has no relation to real Fuzhou White Crane.

Finally, instead of looking to discover the long lost progenitor style from which about fifty or so Okinawan Karate Kata had come to look through the cultural differences and target individual templates; old-style forms (Taolu/Kata) brought together various templates and often were reconfigured to suit the "user."

[Blacktiger]

On your website under time table its says you have a masters degree from china - yet you have never actually been to train in china with anyone.

Forgive my stupidity but how does that work - they sent you a certificate in the mail?

Just a tip if you want to avoid a fire storm everytime you jump on a forum.
If you start to bend the truth with this sort of stuff in MA and fluff things out - people are going to find out and call you on it - its a small world (even smaller in Oz), especially with the names you are dropping. Just do what you do, be straight up an people are not going to have any issues at all.


:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I will make this very simple, for ALL involved.
What claims has Ron made that have been proven false or lies?
If someone has a specififc issue, I want to see a specific question or accusation and then I want to see a specific reply to them.
Period.
Anything else I will view as harrasment and it will get your post deleted and perhaps worse.

[Penfold]

That is fair enough Sanjuro Ronin, :)

Ronald,

There is nothing political or controversial about you or your art.
I think you like to think so. By embellishing and overstating your relationship to many overseas organizations you fail to gain any credibility.

In my eyes if you say you do something, you should do it.

As for the dissemination of Yongchun WC in Australia , how many of the forms listed do you teach?

And do you now claim Yongchun WC lineage as it says on your website?


“The White Crane style taught by Ron Goninan is based on that of Fujian province. Although our School is worldwide, our links back to China are strong. Yong Chun White Crane Kung Fu is the only White Crane style to have its origins in the Southern Shaolin temple. Our Chief Instructor Shifu Ron Goninan has been officially commissioned by the Fujian Yong Chun YiYun Wushu Society (China) to disseminate White Crane in Australia. The White Crane Research Institute is now accepted as original and from the same lineage by Yong Chun White Crane Wushu.”

Do you think that if I enrolled in a medical school to become a doctor, would they let me call myself a doctor straight away? I have read lots and lots of books and dvd’s.

I don’t think that you are capable of changing your ways Ronald, your cup is so full it overfloweth.
It spilleth forth.

I’m not holding my breath for a reply… :rolleyes:

Penfold :(

[Minghequan]

I've been actively pursuing the Oriental Martial Arts since January 1972 commencing in Shotokan Karate-Do. I went on to explore Matsumura Shorin-Ryu Karatedo and Chinese/Okinawan Hakutsuru (White Crane) which I studied on Okinawa with Yabiku Takaya Sensei. Realizing the need to take my personal exploration far deeper than this meeting would allow, I gave up my ranking in Karatedo, Kobudo and Hakutsuru to explore the Chinese martial arts. This led me to a 6 year study with Shaolin Baihe Teacher Shifu Nian Chen Fai and senior Chun Ho.

April 1988 saw myself awarded Internal Arts Instructor Accreditation with the World Taiji Boxing Association.

I was recognised as a Shifu 師父 /Instructor of White Crane Gongfu/Wushu by the China Martial Arts Association of China. The China Martial Arts Association China. Government University Beijing and China Government Central Party Academy and China Government University in Beijing consists of Grandmaster Mu Xian Jie, President Zhan Shan, Grandmaster He Fu Sheng, Grandmaster Liu Wan Fu, Grandmaster Wang Feng Zhu, Grandmaster Professor Dr. Gu Ping.

In 2003 I found and linked up with Great Master Ruan Dong of Fuzhou Calling White Crane with Shifu Dong agreeing to become the Patron and Technical Master/Advisor to myself and the White Crane Research Institute.

Recognised in China as a Shifu 師父 Instructor of White Crane Boxing, I serve as the Australian White Crane Boxing Dissemination Branch Director and Representative of the prestigious YongChun YiYun Wushu (White Crane) Research Society 永春怡云武术研究会 based in YongChun, Fujian, China.

I am an Australian Government Recognised Martial Arts Instructor with the Martial Arts Industry Association (MAIA), The peak body for all Australian Martial Arts as certified by RABQSA (http://www.rabqsa.com/) under international standard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RABQSA_International) ISO17024 by the Joint Accreditation System of Australia/New Zealand. I have been accredited for the past 19 years and serve as the Central Western NSW Represenatiave for the MAIA. I am a Level one San Shou Coach/official with the Government recognised Australian Kung Fu Wushu Federation and Australian Sports Commission.

It is as stated. I have made no statements on this forum that are false. My web site is not under discussion here.

The YongChun Taolu 套路 (Taolu is a performance of set offensive and defensive Wushu movements based on Chinese Martial Arts principles) are in themselves a fairly recent addition to our study. One of my members does all of the forms as listed. We are in the study and use of the YongChun YiYun forms, the number of which is of no concern to others as you and I have not established such a bond to discuss the inner workings of the WCRI.

The WCRI White Crane has been accepted and validated by the YongChun YiYun Wushu Society. its aim along with that of the WCRI is to look at ALL White Crane Boxing as part of its rich martial arts heritage. It is a White Crane propagation/research society that gioves recognition to our on-going research. Moving on ............

I have stated my credential. I would now appreciate it if those who question to state their full names a, location, name of their current school and instructor/affiliations and martial arts credentials to be openly honest, up-front and transparent in their motivations on this forum.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is enough info on this thread that anyone looking for an answer, an find one.
I don't like politics on MA threads.
It seems that, at least on THIS THREAD, Ron made the simple statement that he teaches HIS VERSION of White crane, a version modified an created BY HIM.
Thread closed.