Good WCK clips

[Phil Redmond]

Though we study different lineages here I'm sure people see good things in WC branches out side of their own. Of course there will be things in other lineages that you'll disagree with but I think it would be refreshing to see people make positive comments on good the things instead of the usual negative bashing. I don't think I'm being too idealistic because I talk with other WChunners who feel the same way.
I'll start off by posting clips I think have value. Hopefullyl others will do the same.
Now what I might think is good might not be for others but here goes.
I'll start with this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU_6MHQIpmI

[NelisVingTsun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph7-z6oe9Bg&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ9aNHr92LE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcozWSvpjs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLWWfZvaO4U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScdR_VLuyww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNspO13McvM

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph7-z6oe9Bg&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ9aNHr92LE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcozWSvpjs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLWWfZvaO4U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScdR_VLuyww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNspO13McvM
Obviously you like Philip Bayer's approach. Hopefully you're not learning from his school or students. The purpose of this thread is to see if you can see something of value in a WC style/lineage outside or yours.

[Phil Redmond]

If this becomes a thread of only me giving props o other WC people then so be it. I'll keep looking until the thread gets old. Knowing most WC people there sadly be only a few posts. :(

[Phil Redmond]

Your opponent raises a leg you raise a leg. Good WC to me.
http://www.youtube.com/user/wingchunnyc?blend=2&ob=1

[YungChun]

I had posted this before but..

Not my lineage but I like a lot of what this Sifu is doing.. Esp the CONCEPTS he uses.. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM_KgCSMtMM

[sihing]

http://www.youtube.com/user/chinaboxer#p/c/44543FD816B210B3

Chinaboxer, Jin Young, his video tutorials are a real treat. Jin is a student of Hawkins Cheung, not much online about him so it's nice to see some of what he teaches. I was always curious about his stuff, and Jin does a wonderful job explaining the concepts and principles behind his training method. Jin also trains in Ground grappling, MT, and JKD I believe, with some ring tutorials on his youtube page.

James

[t_niehoff]

Your opponent raises a leg you raise a leg. Good WC to me.
http://www.youtube.com/user/wingchunnyc?blend=2&ob=1

It's good except he extends his arm (a tan sao?) when he checks the kick instead of keeping his arm tight (to his head). If his opponent switched and kicked high, it would blow through an extended arm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzZbpknU02s

[t_niehoff]

I had posted this before but..

Not my lineage but I like a lot of what this Sifu is doing.. Esp the CONCEPTS he uses.. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM_KgCSMtMM

Yes, his is one of the better chi sao clips.

[t_niehoff]

Though we study different lineages here I'm sure people see good things in WC branches out side of their own.


Personally, I think the whole branch/lineage distinction is meaningless. WCK is WCK. Are there some PEOPLE in WCK doing good things? Certainly.



Of course there will be things in other lineages that you'll disagree with but I think it would be refreshing to see people make positive comments on good the things instead of the usual negative bashing.


I think the term "negative comments" (or bashing) is misleading. I guess from your POV that if you say anything other than "how wonderful" it is "negative." From my POV, however, criticism is not "negative". Anything helpful isn't "negative". And criticism is generally far more helpful than praise. We learn far better from mistakes, from having weaknesses pointed out, etc. than from success -- or complacency.

[Phil Redmond]

. . . .I think the term "negative comments" (or bashing) is misleading. I guess from your POV that if you say anything other than "how wonderful" it is "negative." From my POV, however, criticism is not "negative". Anything helpful isn't "negative". And criticism is generally far more helpful than praise. We learn far better from mistakes, from having weaknesses pointed out, etc. than from success -- or complacency.
Most people understand that.

[Phil Redmond]

Here's another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0hiOZNxitQ

[t_niehoff]

The WCK clips I like are those that record the curriculum of "older", non-YM branches of WCK like these for instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGKARYWSV8c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w60X7BF631A

Although I don't care for many of his "applications".

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2iKREiPLpk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmW46ACmsms&feature=PlayList&p=56025B21B8ACB781&index=11

[Matrix]

The WCK clips I like are those that record the curriculum of "older", non-YM branches of WCK like these for instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGKARYWSV8c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w60X7BF631A

Although I don't care for many of his "applications".But what's the point of the cirriculum if there is not good and proper application? I must admit that I am surprised to see you say that you "like" these clips.

[duende]

The WCK clips I like are those that record the curriculum of "older", non-YM branches of WCK like these for instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGKARYWSV8c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w60X7BF631A

Although I don't care for many of his "applications".

Wow... you like these clips after all the crap you give to Phil for his clips??

Talk about enabling partners and illusory skill challenges.

[Phil Redmond]

I have to add this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRrYuG9k8pk

[YungChun]

But what's the point of the cirriculum if there is not good and proper application? I must admit that I am surprised to see you say that you "like" these clips.

I'll second that...

But he may mean 'interesting' to see what non Yip folks do rather than agreeing with what he is doing..

[Wayfaring]

All right. For all of the sh1t he took on Bullshido, I'll post up Milton Wallace's MMA fights. He studied HFY WCK for a couple years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzac5jqIF1I
http://www.youtube.com/user/midknighttiger187#p/a/u/1/MzYGCK1oVYw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl4j_C7QCNI&feature=related

[t_niehoff]

But what's the point of the cirriculum if there is not good and proper application? I must admit that I am surprised to see you say that you "like" these clips.

Because I can separate the curriculum from application -- in TCMAs they are two distinct, separate things.

I like seeing the "older"curriculums because it can give us insight into how WCK was taught in the past.

[t_niehoff]

Wow... you like these clips after all the crap you give to Phil for his clips??

Talk about enabling partners and illusory skill challenges.

I like those clips for preserving "older" curriculums of WCK. When have any of you seen the 22 point method of Gu Lao before?

What I don't like is when people who can't PLAY golf well (who isn't a good fighter) try to show or tell others how to play golf well (how to fight well).

[bennyvt]

chan chee man seems like a cool guy. My teachers is friends with him. He learnt off yip but went to wsl classes. He was akpn a good friend of koo sang so knows alot about the dummy. He is always smiling

[-木叶-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OfZpPemzq0

[k gledhill]

I had posted this before but..

Not my lineage but I like a lot of what this Sifu is doing.. Esp the CONCEPTS he uses.. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM_KgCSMtMM

a wsl student....

[k gledhill]

I have to add this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRrYuG9k8pk


talented ...reminds me of a wt girl who came to my chinatown basement school when I was teaching for V Kan years back....She was showing me what she had been taught as a wt student ...a lot of 'moves' as normal, then she asked me to kick her in the groin :o as she waddled forwards with knees in tight as ygkym...it was all I could do not to burst out laughing as she waddled forwards...the groin waddle :D:D:D

[t_niehoff]

I have to add this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRrYuG9k8pk

I'm sorry, but that is a great example of pure, unadulterated crap. That is a perfect example of what not to do.

[Saboi Osmosis]

Ive always liked these guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM676yGD_5w&feature=fvw

and this guy always cracks me up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iua89YcHq2A

[SAAMAG]

I'm sorry, but that is a great example of pure, unadulterated crap. That is a perfect example of what not to do.

Ah-ah-ah...remember...this is supposed to be a positive thread!

[CFT]

Ah-ah-ah...remember...this is supposed to be a positive thread!Well they look like they have a very well resourced gym/training facility. As usual they (WT) have good hand speed, but use compliant partners and no "real connection".

[JPinAZ]

What I don't like is when people who can't PLAY golf well (who isn't a good fighter) try to show or tell others how to play golf well (how to fight well).

Pot, kettle.... aahhh, forget it! ;)

On another note, I like the master wong videos, they're pretty funny!

[LoneTiger108]

I've always liked these guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zta9Rd22Gog

And I like wooden men clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgho1AZvLWY

[HumbleWCGuy]

All this dummy work, forms, and chi sao doesn't distinguish good wing chun from bad. Drilling from realistic movement and credible demonstrations of application are the only things that separate good WC from bad. We are just as likely to see good WC from a JKDers and boxers as anything else.

[anerlich]

What I don't like is when people who can't PLAY golf well (who isn't a good fighter) try to show or tell others how to play golf well (how to fight well).

Yeah, I hate it when you do that.

[Matrix]

What I don't like is when people who can't PLAY golf well (who isn't a good fighter) try to show or tell others how to play golf well (how to fight well).

What about Tiger's wife? She can't play the game, but she sure knows how to use a club. :D

[Matrix]

Because I can separate the curriculum from application -- in TCMAs they are two distinct, separate things.

I like seeing the "older"curriculums because it can give us insight into how WCK was taught in the past. Who cares how it was taught, if it can't be applied?
:rolleyes:

[YungChun]

Because I can separate the curriculum from application -- in TCMAs they are two distinct, separate things.

Sorry but this is a load IMO..

No the teacher need not be the UFC champ but there are many skills needed to teach the system.. As you once said--if you can't 'do it' in a cooperative drill, then you certainly can't do it in fighting... And the truth is that there are many 'teachers' who can't even begin to 'do it' in the drills.. And if they can't 'do it' in the drills, (or do something goofy instead) they can't pass on those skills. If they can't 'do it' they can't give the student the feel for the skill, the skills, the contact training will be missing, absent, lacking and not 'okay' because the teacher doesn't have the skills.. Some of WCK training is taught on a non-verbal level, through feel and contact.. If the teacher can't do this they can't teach it..

I know you (T) have said this represents a low level of skill but it takes years to develop it to a decent level.. The student is dependent on the teacher to pass on many different skills in what I would call the classical curriculum and without a skilled teacher who can do WCK in an alive setting be it drills, sparring, whatever then the students will be short changed and probably never be able to move into any kind of application in drills and certainly not in fighting.. As you say if you can't do it, then you can't teach it and there is a lot of *doing* and learning via same in the classical curriculum.

[t_niehoff]

What about Tiger's wife? She can't play the game, but she sure knows how to use a club. :D

I wondered who would use my golf analogy to spin off into a Tiger joke. Well done, Sir! Well done.

[t_niehoff]

Sorry but this is a load IMO..

No the teacher need not be the UFC champ but there are many skills needed to teach the system.. As you once said--if you can't 'do it' in a cooperative drill, then you certainly can't do it in fighting... And the truth is that there are many 'teachers' who can't even begin to 'do it' in the drills.. And if they can't 'do it' in the drills, (or do something goofy instead) they can't pass on those skills. If they can't 'do it' they can't give the student the feel for the skill, the skills, the contact training will be missing, absent, lacking and not 'okay' because the teacher doesn't have the skills.. Some of WCK training is taught on a non-verbal level, through feel and contact.. If the teacher can't do this they can't teach it..


Why do you call WCK "the system"? Just call it what it is -- WCK.

WCK is a skill set, and the curriculum is to impart that skill set in an unrealistic environment. The forms, drills, dummy, etc.. teach us the skills. And certainly, if you can't do chi sao, you can't teach it. The distinction, however, is that while you are learning a skill set, the curriculum doesn't teach you to apply -- fight with -- that skill set. To sue an analogy, it is teaching you how the pieces move in chess, but it is not teaching you how to play the game well (how to move the pieces effectively in a game). You only learn to do that like all fighters learn how to apply their skill sets: by fighting.



I know you (T) have said this represents a low level of skill but it takes years to develop it to a decent level..


No, it doesn't. If it takes a person "years" to acquire the skill set, then they are either being milked (for $) or the teaching is extremely poor. The core curriculum can be acquired in a fairly short time. It's not that complicated. Learning how the pieces move in chess is the easy part.



The student is dependent on the teacher to pass on many different skills in what I would call the classical curriculum and without a skilled teacher who can do WCK in an alive setting be it drills, sparring, whatever then the students will be short changed and probably never be able to move into any kind of application in drills and certainly not in fighting.. As you say if you can't do it, then you can't teach it and there is a lot of *doing* and learning via same in the classical curriculum.

Actually, most of that time is a pure waste of time and involves trying to "perfect" the curriculum -- the performance of the forms,drills, dummy, etc. And really, none of that matters. It doesn't matter how "good" your forms are or how well you play chi sao. What matters is how well you can fight using WCK tools. You could learn WCK without forms or chi sao -- you can learn it directly from a sparring platform, like you do boxing or BJJ or many other MAs.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I have to add this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRrYuG9k8pk

This girl has a lot of potential. I am not high on the training that she is doing though.

[SAAMAG]

This girl has a lot of potential. I am not high on the training that she is doing though.

Yep...she's got great skill and it was a nice demo. She's impressive. But to fair his hands were just as good.

But I'd hate to see what happens to either one when someone is trying to hit them with something more than patty cake strikes.

Fast hands and good reactions though.

[YungChun]

No, it doesn't. If it takes a person "years" to acquire the skill set, then they are either being milked (for $) or the teaching is extremely poor. The core curriculum can be acquired in a fairly short time. It's not that complicated. Learning how the pieces move in chess is the easy part.

The skills acquired in good WCK training are not like learning how to move chess pieces.. One is informational, the other is a learned skill.. (kung-fu)

In the case of learning how to instantly apply WCK techniques given the correct conditions (energy and position, et. al.), with correct timing, release of real power, fan sao, etc, in an alive manner takes time and a skilled teacher..

If students never get that training they will never be able to apply that training. Most of what we see folks doing in these drills shows that they can't do it in the drill.. Yet you say it's like learning rules.

Unless you are talking 'caveman WCK', then no it won't take much time at all and the training then would/could be virtually informational..

You think what Yip Man could 'do' to his students in class is akin to learning how chess pieces move? Then why didn't we see his students tossing around little old Yip?

Makes not a lick of sense.

[Pacman]

Though we study different lineages here I'm sure people see good things in WC branches out side of their own. Of course there will be things in other lineages that you'll disagree with but I think it would be refreshing to see people make positive comments on good the things instead of the usual negative bashing. I don't think I'm being too idealistic because I talk with other WChunners who feel the same way.
I'll start off by posting clips I think have value. Hopefullyl others will do the same.
Now what I might think is good might not be for others but here goes.
I'll start with this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU_6MHQIpmI

with all due respect i would say that video tape is a good example of what not to do and what WC is not about--that is if you think WC is about simultaneous fluid movements.

these guys are blocking and then striking in two seperate movements
they are also completely telegraphing their front kicks, as well as breaking a kick into two seperate and distinct motions (knee up and then thrust)

[Knifefighter]

T
You think what Yip Man could 'do' to his students in class is akin to learning how chess pieces move? Then why didn't we see his students tossing around little old Yip?

Because everyone played his chi sao game and none of them ever tried to actually tried to fight him with real resistance.

[Phil Redmond]

I just found this clip from Italy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uycp3jF9tW4&feature=related

[Ultimatewingchun]

...but curious about what you guys think of this vid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bfdabj06SU


And some follow up questions:

How do you think your wing chun would fare against these guys?
What kinds of problems would they give you?
What openings do you see in their game for your wing chun to exploit?

[SAAMAG]

HEY quit stealing videos from the MMA forum!!

[Ultimatewingchun]

Ha! :D

Why should those sanshou guys have all the fun? :cool: