I'm gonna **** some people off...

[ma_newbie]

Before I go any further, know that I have only taken JKD for about a week. However, I have been reading through the forums for a couple weeks. I have read a lot, and here is my post in a nutshell:

Why is Kung-Fu better than JKD?

From what I can tell, JKD is superior in it's application to the real world. The teacher makes a big difference, of course, and mine teaches stand up, weapons, and grappling, which covers all bases.

I am told in Kung-Fu teachers are obsessed with perfect form etc., and all kinds of nitpicky things like that, that don't make a big deal in a "real fight".

I am also here to tell you that your chi or whatever is bullsh*t. Meditation and the like can only serve to give you indirect advantages, like confidence and the like, in my opinion.

On my first day, I was essentially taught how to box. I was taught jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and basic blocks. My second day was kicks, none high. I think they were front kick, side kick, commited/roundhouse/whatever, and non-commited (similar). My third class was doing drills to reinforce those basics.

JKD is all useful, and any superflous or low percentage technique is not taught. This excludes high kicks, which are done for fitness, not to be applied to the real world.

Of course, these are mostly speculations, and I am not closed-minded, so please tell me what you think, and don't be offended by what I say.

--------------

[joedoe]

I don't recall anyone ever saying that kung fu was better than JKD.

You are entitled to your opinions - if you think that Qi is a load of bull, then fine. If you think that meditation is pointless, that is fine too.

My advice to you is just to keep an open mind, and train hard.

Welcome to the forum :)

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[Kung Lek]

ok, let me say this about that...bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahaha.

welcome to the kung fu discussion board, you will fit in well here newbie :D

so, a whole week and yer a boxer already eh?

I've trained in multiple styles for most of my life, with dedicated practice of traditional chinese martial arts for 2 months short of the last seven years solid.

I've said this before, What I don't know could fill a warehouse.
I am not the greatest fighter, and I am not the deepest thinker. But i do love to practice and learn.

anyway, welcome.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[Xebsball]

High kicks sometimes work on NHB events, you know.

Posting stuff like banana is superior to vodka is not a very good thing to be done here.

-------------------------
I'm too sexy for my shirt, too sexy for my shirt
I'm too sexy for your mother, too sexy for your mother
So sexy, YEAH

[ma_newbie]

What I forgot to say was that, in my opinion, the best training one could get would be a cross of JKD and BJJ. Seems like you get the best of both striking and grappling? That or Kung-Fu and BJJ. What I also meant to say was that when training in a single art, JKD is the best in my opinion. I live in a small town, so there aren't many options as far as training are concerned. There isn's BJJ or Kung-Fu school in my area, which left me with JKD.

I am very serious about it, though, and I look forward to years of training.

I also hope this will improve my baseball. :D

Last thing: I am just 15, and I think I am getting into martial arts not a minute too late.

--------------

[grifter721]

Well it is good to hear that you are excited with you jkd... It is the way that almost everyone starts out, after a few classes their art is the best blah blah blah. Well I can tell you that it is all the way you use it.
You can sit and listen to a calculus proffesor all you want after all he would know what you are talking about, but it is up to you TO FULLY UNDERSTAND and expand on what he has taught just like in MA. If all masters did was just copy their masters, how would anything grow?????

My advice to you would be to find someone else in a different sytem and spar....that is how you will find your weaknesses, and your arts weakness. Beleive me they all have their weaknesess. Including JKD
Oh and after a week of training dont proffess that your art is the best or you will run ino someone good and have a rude awakening.

[Kung Lek]

are you sure you're in kentucky and not in... oh, I don't know... "frederick"? :rolleyes:

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[ma_newbie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by xebsball:
Posting stuff like banana is superior to vodka is not a very good thing to be done here.[/quote]

I think what I am saying is more like "bananas are better for you than vodka."

I didn't mention which get you in the best shape physically, which are the most fun, which allow the best competition, or even what works in NHB.

I specifically said application to the real world, which implies a street fight with no rules. Don't put words in my mouth.

--------------

[ma_newbie]

Kung-Lek: I don't think I understand??

--------------

[Xebsball]

Dont you think JKD and MMA are the same thing? Shouldnt JKD have included BJJ in it since JKD uses all stuff that works from all styles?

-------------------------
I'm too sexy for my shirt, too sexy for my shirt
I'm too sexy for your mother, too sexy for your mother
So sexy, YEAH

[azwingchun]

I will say this with all the respect in the world to not only you but anyone who claims to have the best style, with all the styles just in Kung Fu alone, how can anyone claim this without trying them all. Not to mention all the Korean, Japanese etc. And as far as Qi, well, I guess that is your belief. But let's not forget even scientist are beginning to not only be testing Qi, but are actually putting some validity into it. Though once again, we believe what we believe as do you. I guess if we all believed the same exact way there wouldn't be a need for this forum.

To end this, I would just like to say....you are only 15 years old and just starting out in the martial arts, don't be so negative towards other arts, they all have something to offer. Open your mind and you will see. ;)

[ma_newbie]

Posted by grifter721

Well it is good to hear that you are excited with you jkd... It is the way that almost everyone starts out, after a few classes their art is the best blah blah blah. Well I can tell you that it is all the way you use it.
You can sit and listen to a calculus proffesor all you want after all he would know what you are talking about, but it is up to you TO FULLY UNDERSTAND and expand on what he has taught just like in MA. If all masters did was just copy their masters, how would anything grow?????
My advice to you would be to find someone else in a different sytem and spar....that is how you will find your weaknesses, and your arts weakness. Beleive me they all have their weaknesess. Including JKD
Oh and after a week of training dont proffess that your art is the best or you will run ino someone good and have a rude awakening.

--

Who is proffessing that their art is the best? I am just saying it seems like the best in a real-world situation.

--------------

[ma_newbie]

Nobody has responded to the bulk of my post.

Let's pretend I could clone myself and send each clone to a school of each style of martial arts, and each school my clones attend is the best that style has to offer. Next let's pretend I train for the same period of time in each, and let's also pretend I can elimate all other variables.

After, say, 10 years, would or would not the clone that went to a JKD school be able to defend himself in the real world the best?

I am not proclaiming anything. I am here with an open mind, and if someone convinces me I am wrong I will change my opinion.

--------------

[jjj]

Its not the style, it's the clone.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

[ma_newbie]

*sigh*

--------------

[azwingchun]

As far as the cloning thing, my answer would be no not every time for every person. I am a firm believer that each individual can make a certain style work for them better than another, it isn't so much the art as it is the practitioner. Example: I am not a big TKD fan though I have met several people who make it work very well, it doesn't mean that every person who takes TKD will be great fighters, and I believe this with any art. I have studied and or trained in many styles but it wasn't until I found my current style that I actually felt absolutely comfortable. And by the way, the other arts I trained worked fine, though I felt they weren't for me. ;)

[taijiquan_student]

"I am told in Kung-fu teachers are obsessed with perfect form etc., and all kinds of nitpicky things like that, that don't make a big deal in a "real fight"."

Who told you this?

Also, could you please tell me how good structure and mechanics don't help you in a "real fight"?

As to the scenario of going to the JKD school for 10 years and sending your clones to other schools, I can't talk to you about why the JKD clone would or wouldn't be the best simply because I don't practice JKD. But, if you tell me some of the reasons why you think JKD would be better in a "realistic" situation, I can tell you whether or not my style has it or trains for it, and argue your points that way. But I really can't say anything about JKD with any authority.
Respectfully,
--t.s.

"Duifang jing zhi meng ji, wo fang tui zhi ce fang xi zhi."

[Shaolindynasty]

I never took JKD but I went through that phase before I actually started takeing Kungfu where I thought JKD was the best. I was wrong. Since JKD isn't supposed to be a system but a philosophy you can't even argue which is better. You already said there isn't a Kungfu school in your area so how would you know that your JKD is better if you haven't fought a kungfu guy yet? To be honest I think JKD isn't really an effective philosophy or way of learning until you've trained in another art. JKD is about stripping the unessential from your OWN practice not about combining elements from other systems. It's about using your energy the most effecient way( a concept of Wing Chun KUNGFU). Just learning a mix of styles doesn't cut it. JKD is an idea and philosophy.

New classes New online Catalog
www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[HuangKaiVun]

Don't practice kung fu, ma_newbie.

It's not for you.

[joedoe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> From what I can tell, JKD is superior in it's application to the real world. [/quote]

You did in fact claim that JKD was better than kung fu in a 'real fight' situation.

At the ripe old age of 15 with 3 weeks of training under your belt you think you have the qualifications to make a statement like that? Where do you get your information about kung fu if there are no kung fu schools in your area? From the movies?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I am also here to tell you that your chi or whatever is bullsh*t. Meditation and the like can only serve to give you indirect advantages, like confidence and the like, in my opinion [/quote]

And you base this statement on what evidence and research? Have you managed to disprove the existence of Qi? Have you tried meditation and found that its benefits do not directly affect your MA training?

Bear in mind that a lot of posters here have many years of experience in various MA. Maybe you should think about asking for advice rather than coming here to give us the good word ;)

As I said before, keep an open mind.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[yin lion]

but only a few have ever been in a fight or seen more than 10 styles used so you do not think that you system is better in a real life "fight" but you don't even know what your talking about your a newbie.
once you have trained for 5 years and been in at least a few fights using your style than tell me if it even works. right now you could be at any school and say it is the best. the fact remains that you don't know JKD you think you know it and in truth you know a few moves that are..... guess what in about 300 other ststems! The only reason you think your style is better is you are too open minded to your teacher and close minded to anyone that knows anything of any other system.

How can you think that bananas are better for killing pain than vodka is, if you never tried them both? I know you didn't say pain you were thinking for health, but the fact is that you know a bit about health and not even a years worth of fighting.

So let us recap what I just said;

1. you think your art (regardles what it is) is better than any other art (including ones you've never heard of or seen let alone tried)

you must ask your self do I know what I'm talking about and if you have an IQ of 70 you should know the answer is no. You should be very open minded at this time in your training. I'm not saying to trust everything you hear but you can't think it's all bull.

2. you also are talking about two very different styles as being the best JKD and BJJ

first off JKD is kung fu because kung fu means martial art in china in the USA we understand it as a different term.

3. You had mentioned what you did in your third class great

I can't rember what I did in my first class (to long ago) nor my 100th. It doesn't how many moves you know it's like the term "jack of all trades ace to none"

4. you arn't proffessing that your art is better

but you think that after you've taken three classes that you know what ones work in the real world. the real world is not in a class room

5. if you train for ten years in any art (I mean train 2 or 3 hours EVERY day) any art should work on a normal person.

On a trained person(s) there are too many ifs. ex; what if my sifu can beat yours than will I be able to beat you? no not if I have less expirence than you or if my sifu can't teach as good as yours

but to answer your question no. in ten years your clone in the system's of hsing-i and bagua will be much higher skill level. the JKD would beat the bagua clone after two or three years but if you have a good teacher the bagua will kill most others the learning curve is like that because it's an inturnal system tai chi works the same way but there are very few real tai chi teachers in china let alone the USA but it takes 10+ years to use tai chi at all.
hsing-i is really the best if you want to get real good real fast maybe even the best for that because it was made for the army (in china) to train fast and to a high level. though in ten years the bagua and tai chi are at an even higher
level of skills.

No style is better no matter what you or I think it's all up to the user if you use it wrong for 10 years you might as well have been doing tai bo. :rolleyes:

you must unlearn what you have learned then and only then will you be wise and have knolage

[Martial Joe]

ma_newbie ~ you dont know much at all...

You shouldnt say things when even I know more then you...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[brassmonkey]

Forgive me if im wrong but isnt JKD finding what works with all the arts, which means giving up JKD and learning different arts like Muay Thai, Boxing, BJJ, Silate etc. etc. In 10 years you JKD guys will be practicing Tai Chi Chuan I predict, lol. Just playing we all have our preferences mine being TCC.

[Martial Joe]

ma_newbie
You just started and have barely experienced anything.

Thats all for now...

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I am Sharky's main man...

[joedoe]

Hey Joe, I remember you being a bit like that when you started too :)

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[Martial Joe]

I dont.
I dont remember saying wing chun is the best combonation with wrestling did i?

I dont remember saying anything about how wing chun is the best.

I have changed I have to admit that,but only for the better.

I have posted things about styles being supirior to others.But atleast I had some legidimate facts behind what I was saying.

I dont remember posting anything like this though...

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I am Sharky's main man...

[Martial Joe]

I was not that naive when I first started.
I am a year in and its been great though.
My knowledge increases daily i tell you!!!!

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[joedoe]

True, however you did start out with the same attitude - you were convinced that your view was the only right view and that anyone who disagreed was wrong. Very black and white way of looking at the world.

And true, you have changed and you sound like you are going to not only be a good MA but also a good person.

Besides, I was only taking the mickey out of you :)

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[kwokfist]

Shut up ma_newbie, you little *****. Here is little knowledge in your pewny mind so just kneel down and prepare for some butt pleasure from Ralek.

[Martial Joe]

The mickey?
haha..

It wasnt that black and white...

Since you have such a good memory...

Was I wrong alot back then?

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I am Sharky's main man...

[Martial Joe]

Cockfist...common you can do better then that...

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I am Sharky's main man...

[Johnny Hot Shot]

MA Newbie, really when it comes to Life or death in the street. Who's to say Traditional Kung Fu is the best or JKD is. I hope to never find out I seriously hope I neve have to use my MA skills to defend my life or anyone else.

In todays turbulent corrupt world we are over run with McDojo's and Instructors with baloney credentials. Are you learning the best Martial Art money can by? Does it matter?

I say all that matters is that you love to train whatever your style and that you go at it hole heartedly and most of all have fun.

Because the reality of the Street is, I have a Glock 9mm that says your Kung Fu, Chi Ki, Whutaaa ing Martial Art don't mean Sh!t. (my Gangsta)

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[joedoe]

Unfortunately I don't have time to go back and look at the relevant posts, but I do remember several times when you had a very strong view and would not accept anyone else's viewpoint. Well, not until after a lot of arguing back and forth and a lot of convincing. Seems pretty black and white to me :).

You have changed and definitely seem more mature now. Your views are your views but you seem to have learned to accept that other people have views too and that they can be just as correct as yours. Sometimes there is no correct answer.

Don't get me wrong Joe, I think you are a cool dude. I just find it interesting that you and ma_newbie are about the same age and that you both started out with similar (not identical) attitudes that's all :).

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[joedoe]

That is really sick.

I do not know if ma_newbie is a troll or not - I am starting to think he might be.

But that is still really sick :D

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[Archangel]

It sounds like your studying JKD Concepts and not JKD. The authentic Jun Fan kickboxing as developed by Bruce is hard to find. I've tried it myself, and as for me it was difficult to adapt this style; I just wasn't fast enough. It sounds like your on the right track though, JKD Concepts is extremely streamlined and uses techniques proven in actual competition as well as viscious street techniques like gouges and throat strikes.

Just make sure you train correctly and get some competition under your belt. You have the right techniques to get you started but don't think for a second that is all you need. Everything changes when you get hit for the first time, all of your scientific techniques will be worth nothing if you crack under the pressure of real fighting. Keep us posted

[Martial Joe]

Assbandit...atleast your admitting I was smarter then him when I started... :p

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[yin lion]

by jiujitsujedi repsonce I think he is able to remove my responce if not I am wrong sorry but otherwise I did answer the questions but it took to mush of my time to repeat my statement but to recap you don't know what would work until your old and have a lot of expirence so don't guess what will and won't work you have no clue try everything you can remain open to everything but don't think it's all correct.

About the chi thing if you have two people that are the same build and both preform the same strike in exactly the same way (visualy) than why can one hit so much harder? the answer is chi weather you think I'm right or not that's a fact. :rolleyes:

you must unlearn what you have learned then and only then will you be wise and have knolage

[joedoe]

I never said you weren't :)

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[CD Lee]

Hey man dammmn. That is totally uncalled for and way outta taste. You are over the edge there.

[Ryu]

I think BJJ is superior to JKD


heh heh heh...

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[OdderMensch]

your too young to understand this but....

imagine how many bannanas you'd need to eat to get as drunk as a few simple shots of vodka.

you'd kill your self.

oh and with 10 clones IF you could somehow remove ALL OTHER FACTORS, how can that be realistic, ever? It cant, life's not like that.

oh and "side" benifits like "confidence" are what make most of the difference between reality and theroy.

kwok, thats not right, its not even funny man. :(

Oh, and Martial Joe, just as a reminder I learned more ground fighting the other day in my Wing Chun class, thats right Ground fighting :D, in Wing Chun, it is in there, i'm learning it ;)

heck i'm on a roll Abandit that assci sword is cool :) !

[shinwa]

The fact that you're learning Jeet Kune Do with no base in traditional arts speaks loads. that's not the way it was supposed to be done. I eman and a weeks worth of training and you know what is superior? I've trained for 18 years and yes even some in jeet Kune do and I wouldn't dare proclaim what is better than this or better than that.

[Fish of Fury]

maybe Qi only kicks in after your balls drop :)

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

[Repulsive Monkey]

ma-newbie = Ralek.

I'll put a tenner on it

[straight blast]

Aaah, the enthusiasm of youth. It's funny how I knew it all in my TKD (blush in shame) McDojo when I was in primary school. Keep going buddy. I'd love to have a go at JKD.
Enthusiasm=good
Attitude=bad.

"Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory" :cool:

"Pain is merely weakness leaving the body"

[KnightSabre]

JKD can be very effective if the correct principles are followed when studying the art.
Matt Thornton speaks about it on his web site.Go to Straightblastgym.com and see what he says.
His guys also do very well in NHB competitions.
Street Tough (the school I train at) is affilliated to Matts school.All the Straightblast gyms and affilliates combine BJJ with JKD though.

"You're Good Kid Real Good,But As Long As I'm Arround You'll Always Be Second Best See".

[shaolinboxer]

Ma_N:

You are asking good questions. You just have to figure out who to ask.

I also began at 15. I also felt JKD was the "best style". BJJ has just broken out (the Ultimate Fighting Champion ship was just beginning to hit the martial arts world), and I studied a bit of it mixed in with my JKD.

An excellent place to start, and if it suits you physically, mentally, and (dare I say it) spiritually, it's a good place to stay.

[Budokan]

LOL! What a chump. One week into JKD and he's able to determine philisophical and technical differences between it and KF.

Listen, f*cknut, we're glad you're enthusiastic about your style, but don't go overboard, okay? ;)

K. Mark Hoover

[Martial Joe]

.

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I am Sharky's main man...

[FeloniousMonk]

It isn't the style, it's the person taking the style. Traditional kung-fu may not be for you. JKD isn't for me! I think you should start out with a traditional style, then when you have mastered it move on to another style, but that's just me. I'm not putting down JKD, It's just not for me. I say why buy many puzzles and try to make them all fit togrther, it wont work. Put the puzzles together one at a time, or buy one puzzle that has all the aspects you want. As for kicking above the waiste if your fast enough to pull it off, do it! I'm not, so I don't! For me it is to impractical to waiste that much energy bringing my foot to someones face, that's what hands are for! And as for JKD being more effective in the street, I disagree. It does take longer with traditional kung-fu to become effective but a man who takes JKD for 10 yrs wouldn't be even close to the same level as a traditional kung-fu student who studied for 10 yrs. And last but not least Chi is not bullsh!t, Chi is a small part of my kung-fu and a guy who used to learn from my teacher said he thought it was bull****, my teacher knocked him down by just laying his hand on him! He said it felt like his entire chest was on fire and he couldn't breathe. True story.


I would also like to let everyone know I'm done trolling! It is getting old for me, thanks for the tollerance, and I hope noone took me seriously. I may claim to be but I'm not........

The unbeatable Felonious Monk

[honorisc]

"Why is Kung-Fu better than JKD?

From what I can tell, JKD is superior in it's application to the real world."

Since you said that from what you can tell that makes it your opinion at that moment, which makes it Absolutely correct...for those that don't listen or can't or merely don't hear (well), not correct in the suggestion this is superior to that~. Correct in that that's what person thinks.

" The teacher makes a big difference, of course, and mine teaches stand up, weapons, and grappling, which covers all bases. "

From the responses I read~ it seems interesting to see that you all-ish don't consider something that covers stand-up fighting, grappling And weapons as good~.

The responses might indicate people who thought that they knew found they were wrong and eventually learned pat answers to seem like they knew something, in the presence of those who might know~. So, they were talking from I used to think like that and I was wrong let me straighten you out so you don't look as stupid as me...in their own way. The stronger they come at you, the more that they didn't like themselves~.


"JKD is all useful, and any superflous or low percentage technique is not taught. This excludes high kicks, which are done for fitness, not to be applied to the real world. "

As it is a philosophy it is useful. Fighting doesn't always use fists or or and feet. Fighting is someone who disagrees or someone whowants~ to influence youSo (needle and thread), definitely, apply your JKD training.

If your thinking of superior by general fighting standards. Consider Real Life. theoretically, more than half the days you will live won't have pugilism. So if you are training for Real Life, you're not learing to interceot a punch becasuse some one will punch you with a fist. Kung-Fu people (whatever that is, if you come-up with an example or few or so that indicate anything called Kung-Fu that you think is not Kung-Fu then it might not be Kung-Fu and so should not have been brought-up) learn humility. They learn to hear under the words. They learn courtesy. And other type stuff that they use or learn to use at different yet significant moments. Sometimes every day perhaps. So if all your getting (or looking for from JKD (perhaps any Martial Art) Kung-Fu Is uperior for use in Real Life situations. (I comprehend that to stay on-topic it should be phrased JKD is not Superior to Kung-Fu, but I was perhaps more-so, making a point-ish) :-)

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.