Kicking Shoes For MMA?

[HumbleWCGuy]

People often talk about mma as an approximation of a real fight. It is probably pretty close in a lot of significant ways, but I often wonder what the shape of mma would be like if shoed kicking were permitted. Would being allowed to kick with shoes no in mma almost completely render "pure" boxing obsolete?

[Frost]

People often talk about mma as an approximation of a real fight. It is probably pretty close in a lot of significant ways, but I often wonder what the shape of mma would be like if shoed kicking were permitted. Would being allowed to kick with shoes no in mma almost completely render "pure" boxing obsolete?

I think people talk about MMA as being as close as you can get to an real fight, but they recognise its not the same, Paul Vunaks guys spar alot with shoes on and they still end up in boxing and clinch range alot.

It would certainly make things interesting...and it would give the leglock guys a field day:D

[t_niehoff]

People often talk about mma as an approximation of a real fight. It is probably pretty close in a lot of significant ways,


The term "real fight" is silly. What is a "real fight"? Any fight "on the street" or only a life-and-death struggle or what? That sort of thinking -- in terms of "real fighting" -- is specious.

What the MMA ruleset permits is for the fight to occur in any range, in stand-up, clinch, and ground, and for people to be able to use both striking and grappling at those ranges. Does this correspond to what can occur "on the street?" Yup.



but I often wonder what the shape of mma would be like if shoed kicking were permitted. Would being allowed to kick with shoes no in mma almost completely render "pure" boxing obsolete?

If you grasp the following, you'll know the answer.

The skills you NEED to fight are fundamental. The tactics -- how you use your skills/tools -- will change DEPENDING ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I think people talk about MMA as being as close as you can get to an real fight, but they recognise its not the same, Paul Vunaks guys spar alot with shoes on and they still end up in boxing and clinch range alot.

It would certainly make things interesting...and it would give the leglock guys a field day:D

It would really change the game up all the way around. It would be something for sure.

[anerlich]

Shoes are permitted in some MMA rule sets, though usually both parties have to agree and you're normally not allowed to kick.

shoed kicking is permitted in savate.

I don't know how much more realistic or how much really it would change things. Some shoes (steel cappers and hobnails, for example) have no place in a sporting contest.

It's hard to get sponsorship and TV rights if people are getting seriously injured in sporting contests. We had a lot of "pundits" in Australian journalism whining about "all the blood" in UFC 110, which anyone who'se done any sparring knows happens occasionally, and in UFC110 was pretty benign anyway. But it's way too heavy for many people. The worst injury was probably Foster, the guy on the wrong end of that beautiful rolling legbar, not the guys who were bleeding.

And if you allow shoes, why not allow both parties to wear motorcycle helmets and body armour?

You still see plenty of "boxing" in fights on the street where the participants wear shoes, most times you only see kicks when the other guy is on the pavement. If you want to approximate a "real" fight ...

[weakstudent]

this is for the moderator, why is this tread in the wing chun forum when its about mma and shoes, i mean i put something up about a competition in alantic city and the moderators moved it so what gives?

[Knifefighter]

Shoes were permitted in many MMA events in years past. They didn't really change anything.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Shoes were permitted in many MMA events in years past. They didn't really change anything.

I have never seen any where shoes where premitted and the wearer was allowed to kick (outside of Savate of course). Have you? Also, BJJers aren't big with the ankle locks so I wonder how that might play out differently today with the greater influence of Sambo?

[HumbleWCGuy]

My only problem with using Vunack's guys as an example of how the shoed kicking would play out is that a lot of the JKD that I have seen just isn't good enough to make a judgment. There aren't many jkers who I would consider great or even good kickers.

[t_niehoff]

this is for the moderator, why is this tread in the wing chun forum when its about mma and shoes, i mean i put something up about a competition in alantic city and the moderators moved it so what gives?

I have kidnapped the moderator and am holding him for ransom. Until Gene comes through, you can expect more of this.

[Knifefighter]

I have never seen any where shoes where premitted and the wearer was allowed to kick (outside of Savate of course). Have you? Also, BJJers aren't big with the ankle locks so I wonder how that might play out differently today with the greater influence of Sambo?

Most of the early MMA events of the 90's, including the UFC, allowed kicking with shoes.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Most of the early MMA events of the 90's, including the UFC, allowed kicking with shoes.

I don't recall seeing that. Although, I missed a stretch of UFCs.
The striking was either bad or the strikers had such poor grappling that nothing that they did seemed to matter back then. Do you think that shoes would make a difference today?

[anerlich]

BJJers aren't big with the ankle locks so I wonder how that might play out differently today with the greater influence of Sambo?

Ankle and leg locks aren't fundamentals in BJJ but they seem to come up often enough. Any reasonably good purple belt will have a decent knowledge of leg and foot locks. There have been plenty of good leg/footlockers in MMA, and I wouldn't say Sambo necessarily has had a "greater" influence on MMA over time.

Getting back to shoes, it seems to me that most Sambo competitors wear them, not that I've watched a lot of Sambo. Not sure if it is a requirement or not, though it certainly would make footlocks easier.

[HumbleWCGuy]

this is for the moderator, why is this tread in the wing chun forum when its about mma and shoes, i mean i put something up about a competition in alantic city and the moderators moved it so what gives?

You make it sound like having a post moved is punishment rather than the helpful courtesy that it is. If you put a post in the wrong place, it won't get as many responses because people won't know where to look.

[weakstudent]

I have kidnapped the moderator and am holding him for ransom. Until Gene comes through, you can expect more of this.

hahahahaha great

[weakstudent]

You make it sound like having a post moved is punishment rather than the helpful courtesy that it is. If you put a post in the wrong place, it won't get as many responses because people won't know where to look.

oh i get it now i thought it was punishment LOL, i'll get the hang of it oneday.

[anerlich]

I've heard of a guy who tied his opponent's shoelaces of his wrestling boots together while they were wrestling.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I've heard of a guy who tied his opponent's shoelaces of his wrestling boots together while they were wrestling.

Are you serious? That is comedic.

[Frost]

Ankle and leg locks aren't fundamentals in BJJ but they seem to come up often enough. Any reasonably good purple belt will have a decent knowledge of leg and foot locks. There have been plenty of good leg/footlockers in MMA, and I wouldn't say Sambo necessarily has had a "greater" influence on MMA over time.

Getting back to shoes, it seems to me that most Sambo competitors wear them, not that I've watched a lot of Sambo. Not sure if it is a requirement or not, though it certainly would make footlocks easier.

yep i think most BJJ (even those no gi schools) like guys to have a solid fundermental game before messing around with leglocks. Schools that introduce leglocks too early tend to have cr*p guard passing abilities and a not too tight top game and reply on the leg locks much to much, which is bad in grappling and even worse in an MMA setting.. I also agree with the Sambo comment, its been around for decades if it was going to make bid inroads in MMA it would have done so by now.

[anerlich]

yep i think most BJJ (even those no gi schools) like guys to have a solid fundermental game before messing around with leglocks. Schools that introduce leglocks too early tend to have cr*p guard passing abilities and a not too tight top game and reply on the leg locks much to much, which is bad in grappling and even worse in an MMA setting..

That's been my experience too. I was actively discouraged from trying footlocks in rolling as a white belt for those reasons ("No! Learn to PASSS THE GUARD!"). However in my school the higher blue belts are expected to have good knowledge of straight ankle locks and leglock defense (legal in comps at blue belt as well), and purples to be proficient with kneebars and some twisting footlocks.