Bak mei?

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Nk46g6H2o&feature=related

What's the lineage of this Sup Gee?...looks a lot different than what I'm being shown in Vancouver through Yip Chi Sum lineage.
More questions to follow.

Peace

[TenTigers]

doesn't look like any Sup Ji-for that matter Bak mei, that I've ever seen.
His structure seems to not be in alignment with BMP theory.

[Yum Cha]

It might be futsan pak mei... hard to tell... Not like Sek Sze that I know.

[diego]

doesn't look like any Sup Ji-for that matter Bak mei, that I've ever seen.
His structure seems to not be in alignment with BMP theory.


I read the headlines but had no idea to care, now I'm putting full time all my free time into Bak Mei yall really need to give me the page by page details on the genesis of doo wai and one J. Lacey.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Tosserhand#p/u/2/gw4pasFPfUY

lmao

[diego]

what an idiot, you're suppossed to stand and you punch as soon as tension is there...lol

[TAO YIN]

The first one is Cross Fist, Character Ten fist, from Futsan lineage. There are vids you can check out of Zhong Luo on Youtube teaching all of that form step by step. There are also a few vids of him doing demos. There are also vids on Youtube of peeps from Futsan lineage in China doing that form. Different than most all Sup Jee or Sek Sze forms from other Bak Mei lineages.

The second one is the first Bak Mei form, Straight Step Fist, but from Doo Wai lineage. The guy is obviously not doing it properly here because of the steps mainly, and other reasons...A good form though done properly. Not much different than most Jik Bo from other Bak Mei lineages aside from some moves.

[Yum Cha]

The first one is Cross Fist, Character Ten fist, from Futsan lineage. There are vids you can check out of Zhong Luo on Youtube teaching all of that form step by step. There are also a few vids of him doing demos. There are also vids on Youtube of peeps from Futsan lineage in China doing that form. Different than most all Sup Jee or Sek Sze forms from other Bak Mei lineages.

The second one is the first Bak Mei form, Straight Step Fist, but from Doo Wai lineage. The guy is obviously not doing it properly here because of the steps mainly, and other reasons...A good form though done properly. Not much different than most Jik Bo from other Bak Mei lineages aside from some moves.

I thought it might be Futsan Pak Mei.

There is no Doo Wai lineage of Pak Mei.

It is total fabricated crap unrelated to Pak Mei other than what he learned in a few months from Wilkie Wu in Vancouver. The video demonstrates no understanding of pak mei, simply a mimic of some superficial movement. It is completely different to Jik Bo from real pak mei. Just to be clear on that point. There is no Doo Wai Pak Mei.

But, feel free to call it "white tiger", I'm fine with that. :D

[Lai See]

"It is completely different to Jik Bo from real pak mei. Just to be clear on that point."

No kidding!

[sanjuro_ronin]

No jing, no swallowing or spitting, shoulders too high, no rooting, etc, etc.
Either a beginner or someone that was taught the moves with no intent or perhaps a "video" trainee.

[Yum Cha]

No jing, no swallowing or spitting, shoulders too high, no rooting, etc, etc.
Either a beginner or someone that was taught the moves with no intent or perhaps a "video" trainee.


but WAIT!! The videos introduce him as Grand Master!......

This is Doo Wai kung fu, sometimes called Pak Mei, but following some push back from real Pak Mei people, he changed the name to White Tiger. These are old videos.

There is no skill, other than in the spinning of the story....

[TAO YIN]

LMFAO!!!:D

Doo studied in HK with you lots hero, CLC. If he also did with WW, then fine. Great for him.

Anyways, so let me get this right...

Lai Yip Jeurng,
Yum Yeurng Kum La Sau,
Bil Jee,
Sut Choy,
Chum Choy Toi,
Kol La Fu Jow,
Gwok Jeurng,
Soy Kuil,

This isn't principles from Bak Mei Jik Bo?

[TAO YIN]

Out of curiosity,

I have heard the story a few times around the world of Doo being asked to change the name. I don't know the extent of the truth with all of it since the name has been BFP for as long as he has been known to the media since, the 60s.

Anyways,

Why didn't Futsan Bak Mei from the other line get pushed to change their name back in the day???

[David Jamieson]

doo was crap when he started and he is crap now.
i say this because he is such a pathetic liar and now he is fashioning himself as a medicine man.
lord knows what sort of damage he'll do there.

he's a case study of fraudulent kungfu "masters" though.

nuff said.

anyone who doesn't like that can blow me. :p

[TAO YIN]

:p


Oh! Well, I could care less if he lies or embellishes. He's Chinese...:eek:

He's been both a kung fu and TCM man all along.

Seriously, without flaming and trolling. What is wrong with his internal fu?

Better yet, why is his medicine bad??? What contraindications occur? What messes up the yin and yang organs? He's a fuucking licensed TCM doctor...

Noone is going to blow you. Don't worry so much.

[Yum Cha]

Noone is going to blow you. Don't worry so much.

story of my life...

[Yum Cha]

LMFAO!!!:D

Doo studied in HK with you lots hero, CLC. If he also did with WW, then fine. Great for him.

He told you this? My, what a surprise.

He also got the secret of smoking fingers from him too, I bet. And the 5 finger heart exploding hand? How about the bit where he showed CLC some of his secret family fu, and that is how he created Sub Baat?

I've heard it all, and I don't believe a single word of it. You're in an unlucky position.

Regardless of what you hope, that sad truth remains, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

[TAO YIN]

Ah well, Yum Cha,

No, he didn't tell me this. I don't know the man. I don't study or practice Bak Fu Pai or Bak Mei Pai for that matter. I follow the internal Yau Kung Mun from Tiat Yun and BJJ, only. That doesn't mean that I can't read and research. For the sake of modern historical study, let's let all the cats out of the bags...

Isn't Doo-- Wilkie Wu anyways? Wasn't that the story here about 8 years back or so? That his real name was Wilkie Wu, and that after some triad nastyness, his wife and child got killed, and he fled to America??? This was the story spouted about 8 years back. Good story until everyone realizes, or had realized, that Wilkie Wu was and is a real person living in Canada, who never fled Canada...

I digress...

Wasn't it Wai's father who studied at the same temple as CLC? Who knows? All hearsay until someone comes up with concrete evidence. Wasn't it CLC who studied at that temple? Who knows? All hearsay until someone comes up with concrete evidence.

Did Wai study with CLC in Hong Kong? Who knows? All hearsay until someone comes up with concrete evidence. CLC would have been 70 or so when Doo went there. But, many people for back then to now have said yes on both sides apparently... If you really want to know, (which I don't), take CBL a picture and see how he reacts. Seriously, see how he psychologically reacts...

But, why would CBF and CBL call Doo Wai, which they did according to most involved apparently (No I wasn't there), and ask him not to call what he was teaching in his $$$ videotape, Bak Mei? Why would they even know who he was??? That was the case according to most on both sides. That was back in the late 80s mind you, not the late 50s.

If you go to Guangzhou and ask people, they don't know. If you go to Foshan and ask people, they don't know too. If you go to Hong Kong and ask people, they will just say no, or they don't know too....

The point here, is that noone who really knows about these things ever says ANYTHING about it. I'm talking people who were alive then, training in the 50s and 60s.


Me questioning in any of this has nothing to do with what Chinese Kung Fu men say about each other and their lineages. I couldn't give a shiit about all of that because I know how important lineage, legend, and mah jong is to Chinese Kung Fu men. I couldn't give a shiit who studied with who, for how long, and all of that other useless Bullshiit.

My questioning is more physical if you will. AND my question is,

WHY WOULD DOO WAI KNOW EVERY BAK MEI FORM AND JONG JUST AS IT WAS TAUGHT IN HONG KONG AT THAT TIME??? WHY??? More importantly, HOW???

[Yum Cha]

If you choose to believe, pay your money and take your chances.

Its not about 'politics' its about Buyer Beware. Plain and simple.

[TAO YIN]

:confused:

Are you talking to me or everyone? Because me personally...I am not buying ANYTHING without bargaining (lived in China too long), and if I am talking to a Chinese Kung Fu Man Sifu...I'll bargain and ask them all kinds of nasty little questions, in their own language no less. This usually gets "them" to walk the other way quickly, (especially the language bit), and fumble around in their pockets for half a dozen smokes (glad I quit)...

The question stays,

Why would Wai have complete knowledge and understanding of the entire Bak Mei system???

Was he the first home video student of Bak Mei back in the days or some shiit? hehehe! :D

[Lai See]

Didn't this start out about Pak Mei? Or have I picked up the wrong magazine again?

1) Doo Wai is a joke.
2) Yau Kung is a joke.
3) Being able to speak Chinese is as necessary to understand Chinese boxing as quadratic equations are to an earthworm.
4) Cats dont get into bags unless someone puts them in there in the first place
5) This is probably all stuff I 'heard'.

[TAO YIN]

Lai See,


What? Yau Kung is a joke now? Please, please explain that one. Har Hon Hung wasn't a student of CLC? He wasn't a student of Tiat Yun? Seriously, please explain this to me.

About the other bit, I'll wait until my question is answered, which is won't be.

[Northwind]

...SNIP...
I couldn't give a shiit about all of that because I know how important lineage, legend, and mah jong is to Chinese Kung Fu men. I couldn't give a shiit who studied with who, for how long, and all of that other useless Bullshiit.
...SNIP...


Mahjong is not useless Bullshiit. :P

I have no clue about this stuff, however I had to quote this one simply for the mahjong factor. Sorry, just a lover of tcma + mahjong & to see mj dropped in was like heaven :P

[TAO YIN]

:D

You are right, Mah Jong is cool. I like Mah Jong and dumb fark talk, not Mah Jong and "no it goes this way because I am the original bad arse," talk. That usually just makes me want to throw the pieces at whoever said it then turn the table over on them...You see how it gets out of hand?:eek:

[Jorge]

I read the headlines but had no idea to care, now I'm putting full time all my free time into Bak Mei yall really need to give me the page by page details on the genesis of doo wai and one J. Lacey.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Tosserhand#p/u/2/gw4pasFPfUY

lmao

Sigung is not PMPai, he's the head of Bak Fu Pai. Bak Fu Pai is a family style that has been kept within the family for years and has been taught to a few people outside the family. Of course, taking into consideration how many people have studied a style like Lung Ying or Pak Mei. Bak Fu Pai is similar to Pak Mei, just as Pak Mei is to Lung Ying. There short hand styles! Comparing PM to BFP is almost like comparing Chu Gar Gao and Jook Lum. Same hands, different energies. One style is know for it's geng ging and the other for it's Yau Kung. Geng Ging is but the beginning for us in Bak Fu. Same is true is YKM!

Don't judge Sigung by a guy who isn't even his student. Sigung has a clip of him on youtube doing jikbo back in the days. He's actually training the energy form, as the Pak Mei he has is called Hung Mo/ErMei Bak Mei and every routine has a fighting form, chi gung form and a endurance form.

Bless,

Buby

[Jorge]

:confused:
I thought it might be Futsan Pak Mei.

There is no Doo Wai lineage of Pak Mei.

It is total fabricated crap unrelated to Pak Mei other than what he learned in a few months from Wilkie Wu in Vancouver. The video demonstrates no understanding of pak mei, simply a mimic of some superficial movement. It is completely different to Jik Bo from real pak mei. Just to be clear on that point. There is no Doo Wai Pak Mei.

But, feel free to call it "white tiger", I'm fine with that. :D

Yummy,

You know better then that! The student in the vid. is a Lacey student and not a Doo Wai student. Shhhh, Lacey aint even todai to Doo Wai.

Why don't you put up a clip of yourself, so we can see what real Pak Mei looks like.

Thanks,

Buby

Buby

[Jorge]

Lai See,


What? Yau Kung is a joke now? Please, please explain that one. Har Hon Hung wasn't a student of CLC? He wasn't a student of Tiat Yun? Seriously, please explain this to me.

About the other bit, I'll wait until my question is answered, which is won't be.

Stay waiting Bro, cause I doubt you'll get an answer.

Bless,

Buby

[TAO YIN]

:D

Bro, How goes it?

Yep, I guess that I am going to have to wait for any rational responses. Oh well, it's Friday! :)

Take care

[Reality_Check]

Sigung is not PMPai, he's the head of Bak Fu Pai. Bak Fu Pai is a family style that has been kept within the family for years and has been taught to a few people outside the family. Of course, taking into consideration how many people have studied a style like Lung Ying or Pak Mei. Bak Fu Pai is similar to Pak Mei, just as Pak Mei is to Lung Ying. There short hand styles! Comparing PM to BFP is almost like comparing Chu Gar Gao and Jook Lum. Same hands, different energies. One style is know for it's geng ging and the other for it's Yau Kung. Geng Ging is but the beginning for us in Bak Fu. Same is true is YKM!

Don't judge Sigung by a guy who isn't even his student. Sigung has a clip of him on youtube doing jikbo back in the days. He's actually training the energy form, as the Pak Mei he has is called Hung Mo/ErMei Bak Mei and every routine has a fighting form, chi gung form and a endurance form.

Bless,

Buby

Sigung? I see your video sifu Garry is still associated with Doo Wai.

As you referred to the Doo Wai jik bo clip, and apparently consider yourself a Bak Fu Pai practitioner (via video?), perhaps you can answer these questions:


With regards to Lama Pai Sifu's comment about Bak Fu Pai and it's appearance as "sloppy" Bak Mei, these two clips seem to support his contention.

Bak Fu Pai (beginning at the 1:20 or so mark):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s--J4EihtM

Bak Mei Jik Bo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccUjuaGTllQ

The movements are identical and in the same sequence. Could it be that Bak Fu Pai is simply renamed Bak Mei? Perhaps Doo Wai decided to create a new style from Bak Mei, giving it a secret history, as he couldn't compete with higher generation Bak Mei teachers (such as Chin D'or). Such things have been known to happen in the past. Please note, this is a supposition, but the lack of a verifiable lineage, as well as the pronounced similarities to Bak Mei, make it a legitimate line of inquiry.


Now, as that is out of the way, please feel free to address my supposition re: the relationship between Bak Fu Pai and Bak Mei. I would also appreciate some comments regarding the following.

From a 1990 article in Ancient Sets of Kung Fu, authored by GM Doo Wai:

"Bok Fu Pai (White Tiger) Kung Fu, has been conserved in a most traditional way, it was handed down from father to son until now. From Fung Doe Duk, the secret of White Tiger Kung Fu was passed to Kwong Wai Jung, then to Jok Wan Jung, then to Yee Too Jung then to Wou Shan Jie, a monk whom in exchange for food and lodging taught the White Tiger System to Doo Kow, whom in turn passed it down to his son the present head of the system, Grandmaster Doo Wai.
In 1968 Grandmaster Doo Wai came to the United States, settling on the West Coast where he still resides and teaches but a few privately."

In Bak Mei's lineage, Kwong Wai learned from Bak Mei and, in turn, taught Juk Fat Wan. If Bak Fu Pai is separate from Bak Mei, why are these two in it's lineage? In addition this would seem to contradict lineage trees on other Bak Fu Pai websites that list Doo Tin Yin as having learned from Fung Doe Duk. I hope that you, or Dr. Harout, can clear up this inconsistency.

Also, I was hoping you or Dr. Harout would address the similarities (i.e. how they are almost identical) between Bak Fu Pai's Chum Bo Kuen and Bak Mei's Jik Bo Kuen (please see my first post on page 13 of this thread for a visual aid).

Thank you, in advance, for your replies.

I never did get any answers during that whole donny brook.

[Jorge]

Sigung? I see your video sifu Garry is still associated with Doo Wai.

As you referred to the Doo Wai jik bo clip, and apparently consider yourself a Bak Fu Pai practitioner (via video?), perhaps you can answer these questions:





I never did get any answers during that whole donny brook.

RC,

I'm leaving work, but will answer the questions to the best of my ability as soon as I get home.

Nah Bro, I'm no longer a vid. student. I thought you would know that by now.

If you don't mind me asking, are you in NYC?

Buby

[TAO YIN]

Reality Check,

Maybe you can answer my question since you seem to know:


Why would Wai have complete knowledge and understanding of the entire Bak Mei system???

:confused:

[Reality_Check]

RC,

I'm leaving work, but will answer the questions to the best of my ability as soon as I get home.

Nah Bro, I'm no longer a vid. student. I thought you would know that by now.

If you don't mind me asking, are you in NYC?

Buby

No longer a video student? Cool. I guess the sigung comment threw me off. I remember you saying something about one of your friends having opened a boxing or muay thai gym. Is that what you're doing now?

Nah, I'm not in NYC. I'm in Jersey (I know, I know...:eek:)

[Yum Cha]

Reality Check,

Maybe you can answer my question since you seem to know:


Why would Wai have complete knowledge and understanding of the entire Bak Mei system???

:confused:

The more pointed question is, "Why do you think he does?" :D

[diego]

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;996453]No jing, no swallowing or spitting, shoulders too high, no rooting, etc, etc.
Either a beginner or someone that was taught the moves with no intent or perhaps a "video" trainee.[/QU I don't get it, I'm on my way to BAK MEI on a friday night could be@da bar. Why do people sell fake video instead of spending time training properly...like from the level of studying fitness theory the topic issue is hilarious.

[TAO YIN]

Yum Cha,

Very good point. I'll gladly answer as bluntly as possible and give my views. Perhaps this will take some space...I will be as objectively as possible, and I won't sit on the fence.

With regards to my question... I have no fuucking idea...I can speculate although I hate to because it isn't very objective now is it?

-Wai learned from his father, and his father, and so forth.
-Wai's father was friends with CLC.
-Wai was friends with CLC.
-Wai's father learned from the monk on the mountain too.
-Wai's father learned from one of the monks disciples.
-Wai was a student of many in Hong Kong, and somehow through great memory remembered all that he saw to where he knew all of the complexities of various styles, and went from there.
-Wai witnessed lots of Fu in Hong Kong from various styles, miraculously remembered complex hand movements and principles from all of them, and went from there.


Now, I could go on and on with speculation, the POINT HERE is...I don't know, and YOU DON'T KNOW TOO. Noone here needs to pretend that they do.

-You saying that you don't believe because so and so who wasn't even there, or for that matter born during that time, means nothing to me. Pointless debate.

-You saying that you don't believe, because so and so who was there, and was born during that time, again means nothing to me. Why? Because every Chinese Kung Fu Man, is out for number one, and has their own agendas...If you really think about it, we could spout of bullshiite about every Chinese Kung Fu man under the sun, forever...

-Reality Check, although having a cute name and posting some article from Wai, also proves NOTHING. As usual. Why? Wai might have made all of that up in that article just to cover his agenda, no matter what it was. I am not saying that he did. NO ONE KNOWS!!! If someone does, they ain't saying it here.

Now, I reckon that you lot are educated people. All that has been said here in this thread, all that has been said in the past on the nets and in magazines, all of it, MEANS ABSOLUTE SHIITE!!! And you all know that. If you don't, then you have made up an answer for yourself. Which if that is the case, would be a crock of bullshiite as well. The only thing that matters in all of this in the end of it all, that is for people who can get over themselves and can wade out of The Chinese Kung Fu Man Role Syndrome Shiit, is the physical aspects of it.

DOES ANYONE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PHYSICAL ASPECTS OF IT? Not talking about mosquitoe hand talk from watching a vid on youtube. Post your experiences from training Wai's watered down Bak Mei as you like to call it. Tell me, what worked and didn't in all of the clubs that all of you bounce in, in all of the tourneys that all of you are in, in your military bullshiite, and etc...Tell me why the forms are the way that they are, and why one is better than the other. THEN, COMPARE AND CONTRAST IT TO BAK MEI....

TELL ME WHY HAVING QUICK HEAVY AND LOOSE HANDS IS A BAD IDEA, AND THAT IT IS BETTER TO HUNCH OVER WITH YOUR SHOULDERS STUCK OUT WAY IN FRONT OF YOUR BODY AND JUST USE YOUR WAISTE AND BREATH with movement. (For christ's sake, even Peek-a-boo style boxing doesn't do this).

So to close, let's all stop blowing smoke up each other arses. The way people carry on here about who did this and that, is farking SO poofta gay.

When the truth is found, it's usually not as cool as we thought it might be. If we really knew the full and absolute truth about CLC, it probably wouldn't be near as cool as we thought it might have been. If you guys can't see this, in regards to everything in life, you've got your blinkers on to a very farked up degree.

Cheers.

Tao

[Jorge]

No longer a video student? Cool. I guess the sigung comment threw me off. I remember you saying something about one of your friends having opened a boxing or muay thai gym. Is that what you're doing now?

Nah, I'm not in NYC. I'm in Jersey (I know, I know...:eek:)

I still train with Sifu Garry, just not via vid. anymore. I vid what I train with him.;) Yeah, I've been training thai since 95 and boxing since 82. My uncle and the crew he ran with were pretty big in the street fight scene in bedsty(70s-mid80s), so he taught me to box and he and his boy Pebbles taught me the blocks version of the 52.

If you ever in NYC holla at me. Jers aint to bad. Atleast, ya got the med. marijuana bill.:eek::D

Buby

[Yum Cha]

Tao,

You keep coming up with the regurgitation of his con, and his poor woe is me, everybody is jealous of my secret skills jive.

You are reciting the con, chapter and verse, maybe this, maybe that, always looking for the reason to believe, not the proof.

You have ONE source, and of course your comrades who also drank the kool aid.

I know its going to break your heart, but Pak Mei is a fairy tale, let me say it once again in case you didn't get it the first 10 times. Its a fairy tale.

He didn't have secret stuff that CLC didn't get because he didn't exist.

People can practice hitting a nail with a hammer and get kung fu. People can train the most simplistic martial art and learn to fight exceptionally. Spirit, the human intellect and physical training can create fighting skill from very little other than sweat. That proves nothing.

Logically, you are caught in a loop: You believe what he told you, that nobody else knows, and surely everybody proves it, that they don't know indeed.

The problem is, people do know. They know where he came from, they know how he reacts when they come up and knock on his door, they know his objectives, because he has videos still out there that show his game.

But all that aside, there's his skills. His lessons and performances are all over the internet. His 'secret family style, handed down father to son for generations and so tightly held, is all over the internet like pay per view sex chat come ons.

The physical reasons have been discussed ad nausium, but we always come back to his people trying to recite his con back to justify verbally what can't be justified physically.

You want a lesson from me now, on the difference between his style and Pak Mei?

You want to talk to me about internal Pak Mei and Ng Hang Mo, Siu Jau Teen, Di jau teen and lok gang ging, and the methods of cultivating the ging and breathing?

I think that's probably unnecessary, being that you have such gold from other sources to fill your cup already.

[TAO YIN]

:D

Nah, you got me all wrong, especially on the mental aspect of it, that's for dammn sure. I didn't drink any cool aid. I don't need a reason to believe anyone.

I wasn't regurgitating anything. If I was, it was simply because I am a human on this earth and have heard other humans open their mouths full of shiite, good or bad, to tell me his regurgitation. I SPECULATED. Read everyone of those speculations again if you didn't understand. Again, you are going back to being subjective, (not your whole post mind you). I never said anything about anyone being jealous. You subjectively read into whatever I objectively said.

LOOK PLEASE, I don't care if he made all of it up while sitting on the shiitter...Can't you get that?

Breaking a broken heart is hard to do bro. I KNOW that BAK MEI is a fairy-tale. I KNOW that CLC was a man who ate, slept, shiit, ****sed, farked, laughed, etc...I know that Wai was, and his father was, and the monk was, and that I am, and that you are, and that everyone on this whole entire planet, past, present, and future, IS.

I agree with everything in your 6th paragraph except the last sentence. IT DOES PROVE SOMETHING. It proves that sitting here talking shiit about people no one here knows, and noone who they know knows, is NOTHING. It also proves, that in the end of it all, that is all that matters. Who farked who isn't. We just think it is simply because society and history tells us that it should be that way.

NO, I DONT BELIEVE WHAT HE TOLD ME...FARK! I don't know him, for the 10th time. hehehe! You like it? :D The only loop that I am caught in is trying to explain to you my perspective, which obviously you could care less about. Well that, and death and taxes.

So people know? Okay, good we are getting somewhere kind of. WHO? Who has went to his door (Coughs, bullshiite...), Who knows his objectives? You can post that for the other readers... AGAIN, in case you didn't read my first post and are simply wanting to put out your objectives... I DON'T CARE ABOUT CHINESE KUNG FU MEN PLAYING MAH JONG AND THEIR OBJECTIVES! You don't know anyone who knows where he comes from. Was it Huizhou's thereabouts? Nice place, I have been there. Had noodles at a place near CLCs. Shiite noodles but. Seriously who do you know that knows. Which won't matter, because AGAIN, everyone can say they know...Proves nothing.

Anything on all over the internet, (You mean YOUTUBE and a few sites out of billions), save maybe one form done, he is in his late 70s doing it...Come on! You can do better than that.

NO, his demonstrations haven't been discussed ad nausium. You just say, looks like mosquitoe killing. But you never say that about Wing Chun. People just say that his stances are bad and his hands are too fast. Nothing else. Because noone else talking about it trains it. It's pretty simple. Which by the way, I don't care how good or bad he does it.

AND no, I don't want a lesson from you. Do you want one from me? If I did anyways, I would just ask in person next time I was around. I'm sure we would both learn something cool and it would be a good time. I don't know if there is any good Dim Sum around where you guys train, but we could find something good to eat afterwards anyways...Maybe play Mahjong even.:D

I was simply asking anyone to discuss this rather than discussing who shiite in whos mouth. I was simply asking why in the world he would have all of that knowledge and know all of those forms, the same as the HK Bak Mei forms, by heart. That's all. Nothing else. Yes, I would like to talk about internal because it is my passion, and I know from training all of these different kinds of methods over the years, that A PERSON just can't get the same kind of internal from doing Meng Fu Chut Lum, slowly. It just doesn't happen...

Anyways man, I think you have me badly mistaken. I am all about results. I don't care about lineage wars and fairy tales, at all. I have traveled the world over training various styles. I have probably actually lost life rather than gained it from training martial arts. Still, I know little.

Sifu Garry is much better at Kung Fu than I am, so I listen to him and take his advice. There are many people better than I am, and I listen to them and take their advice. I am all about becoming better. I gain from training the internal methods, whether they are from Yau Kung Mun, CLC's Bak Mei, or Wai's White Tiger, or some dumb fark down the street.

THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN AND THERE NEVER WILL BE...That is just how it is.

Let's contribute to saving cyberspace if anyone here wants to answer my question...

Cheers,

Tao

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/user/SifuWu?aia=true#p/u/159/wnW7LAdeyjM

Who is demoing this Sup Ji?. it's like identical to what I'm training but dude is so much better than me at coiling...@ like the 49 second mark is where I'm up to...so cool to find cross country video of a master demoing something I'm just getting into like only under a month of training.:)

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0BYOSG6_dw&feature=related

Who did JC train with and is there good video online of jackie demoing the White Eyebrow?.

[Jorge]

http://www.youtube.com/user/SifuWu?aia=true#p/u/159/wnW7LAdeyjM

Who is demoing this Sup Ji?. it's like identical to what I'm training but dude is so much better than me at coiling...@ like the 49 second mark is where I'm up to...so cool to find cross country video of a master demoing something I'm just getting into like only under a month of training.:)

Diego,
If you don't mind me asking, who do you train with? Sifu Wu, if I'm not mistaken is guandong PM, but I could be wrong. One of the older lines of CLC Pak Mei.

I like the force generated in his forms. His three strikes are awesome, all with power.

Thank you in advance,

Buby

[Yum Cha]

The Sifu Wu who posted that video is from Australia, and does Futsan Pak Mei, amongst a number of other southern styles. He has a lot of good info, and has spent a good amount of time in China researching traditional Southern MA.

Not Wilkie Wu from Vancouver.

That vid looks more like Futsan Pak Mei to me from the way they do the salute and the little detail moves they insert.

[Jorge]

[QUOTE=Yum Cha;999446]The Sifu Wu who posted that video is from Australia, and does Futsan Pak Mei, amongst a number of other southern styles. He has a lot of good info, and has spent a good amount of time in China researching traditional Southern MA.

Opps, sorry! I thought you were talking about this guy. My bad!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX0Xx6OnQ-g

Buby

[Yum Cha]

[QUOTE=Yum Cha;999446]The Sifu Wu who posted that video is from Australia, and does Futsan Pak Mei, amongst a number of other southern styles. He has a lot of good info, and has spent a good amount of time in China researching traditional Southern MA.

Opps, sorry! I thought you were talking about this guy. My bad!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX0Xx6OnQ-g

Buby

That guy has some mad skillz.

In the post you deleted, you asked another question, about jik bo?

[diego]

Jorge, I train @the Gee How Tin benevalent society under Sifu Wilkie Wu going on almost a month now. I have basic Jik Bo and close to half of Sup Ji..I can't wait to pick up some Tai Chi from the old men with swords.

[Jorge]

[QUOTE=Jorge;999461]

That guy has some mad skillz.

In the post you deleted, you asked another question, about jik bo?

Yum,

I deleted my post, because I found my answer in one of your posts on the different brances of Pak Mei. Thank you!

Buby

[Jorge]

Jorge, I train @the Gee How Tin benevalent society under Sifu Wilkie Wu going on almost a month now. I have basic Jik Bo and close to half of Sup Ji..I can't wait to pick up some Tai Chi from the old men with swords.

Thanks! How's your training going? What is your class like? If you don't mind.

Buby

[Yum Cha]

[QUOTE=Yum Cha;999462]

Yum,

I deleted my post, because I found my answer in one of your posts on the different brances of Pak Mei. Thank you!

Buby

Something else to remember, Jik Bo is short and sweet. As a bit of a change of pace, its fun to add an additional move, or change something, with the idea that your are drilling a combination, as opposed to drilling just the essential Jik bo.

Leung Cheung used to train several different versions, back in the day.

Sometimes its nice to do the mirror image, and start with a right hand instead of a left.

Jik bo is a principle as much as a form. Like many things with Pak Mei, you have to unlock a few secrets here and there.

[Olaf]

For me the fun in Jik Bo is making the principles work in all the other sets. If that works that it really becomes the 'grammar'/engine of the system.

[sanjuro_ronin]

:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccUjuaGTllQ

[Lau]

Don't like the jumping, that not pak mei power generation in my book.

Regards, Lau

[sanjuro_ronin]

From NY Pak mei:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwaPpFdvas0&feature=related

[Yum Cha]

From NY Pak mei:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwaPpFdvas0&feature=related

Thats a nice vid.

[Yum Cha]

:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccUjuaGTllQ

That is a pretty textbook execution. Pure Vanilla, HK style.

That Sifu in NZ had a lot to do with WuShu Organisation. His forms are as close as there is to to the wu shu recognised execution. I think its just a default thing, because he was a Wu Shu Judge, or whatever.

Of couse, Pak Mei and Wu Shu aren't exactly two things you put together.

HK Pak Mei has more of the hopping/stomping and than other places. Is that what you are talking about Lau? Its kinda classic for HK.

[kfson]

HK Pak Mei has more of the hopping/stomping and than other places. Is that what you are talking about Lau? Its kinda classic for HK.

Coming from a Xing Yi background, what is the hopping and stomping all about?

[Lau]

Yum Cha

The "jumping" is found in HK too, but certainly not in all schools. It does add a cool sound to a performance. But in my opinion the ground should tremble because of the "ging" generation and the root to which power flows when "ging" is issued (with both feet flat and solid on the ground) and not because of some added effect.

Most of the time your fist / hand will reach your opponent before the shock power at the end of the movement, and than I prefer to be with both feet on the ground in stead of in the air. So I am very interested to hear why someone would add this "jumping" to their power generation and what the benefit is.

Regards, Lau

[Lai See]

Yum Cha : "Something else to remember, Jik Bo is short and sweet. As a bit of a change of pace, its fun to add an additional move, or change something, with the idea that your are drilling a combination, as opposed to drilling just the essential Jik bo.
Leung Cheung used to train several different versions, back in the day."

In my experience this is indeed the case and why it may often appear to the uninitiated that different schools train 'different' Jik Bou. Whereas the opposite is usually true.
I prefer the simplest personally.

Yum Cha : "That is a pretty textbook execution. Pure Vanilla, HK style."

Agreed.

Lau : "The "jumping" is found in HK too, but certainly not in all schools. It does add a cool sound to a performance. But in my opinion the ground should tremble because of the "ging" generation and the root to which power flows when "ging" is issued (with both feet flat and solid on the ground) and not because of some added effect."

With respect I don't understand what you mean here, the ground is never going to 'tremble'. Or am I taking your words too literally?
For my part the exertion of power during some parts of some perfomance can result in a what appears to be a 'jump' but in fact is a result of the energy that occurs when a body is not hitting another because it isn't hitting or interacting with another. Not at all about a cool sound
I agree with the feet rooted totally which is why, in what is probably going to be a controversial statement but there you go, the NYC video doesn't do a lot for for me. Too 'skippy'.

[Lau]

Lai See,

I am not a native speaker, let me try to explain it like this. I live in an old house. When I punch/ use power the floor squeaks and glasses in the cupboard can be heard ect. Not because I stomp my feet, but because when a forward power is generated, a downward /backward force is generated instantaneously too. That force goes into your root and give a downward force in the ground which causes this effect.

Regards, Lau (who doens't like to add variation to his jek bo. It is what it is)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yum Cha

The "jumping" is found in HK too, but certainly not in all schools. It does add a cool sound to a performance. But in my opinion the ground should tremble because of the "ging" generation and the root to which power flows when "ging" is issued (with both feet flat and solid on the ground) and not because of some added effect.

Most of the time your fist / hand will reach your opponent before the shock power at the end of the movement, and than I prefer to be with both feet on the ground in stead of in the air. So I am very interested to hear why someone would add this "jumping" to their power generation and what the benefit is.

Regards, Lau

The theory behind the stomp or jump is "force vectors" or the direction of force.
As you move forward the force generated by your movement goes forward but it also goes into all points of contact, the fist when you hit and the floor when you "land", so you try to hit at the moment of the stomp or just before so that as much force is transfered to the target and less amount is transfered to the "floor".
Think about when you lean you hand aganst the wall and push, if you take your lead foot of the floor you will see more force going into the push because the only point of contact is your hand, as opposed to when your feet touch the ground and they also become a point of contact and point of force direction.
The stomp creates a reaction of forces, as you stomp the force you hit with is redirected back to you and up your body and out your arm into the target.

[Lai See]

Lai See,

I am not a native speaker, let me try to explain it like this. I live in an old house. When I punch/ use power the floor squeaks and glasses in the cupboard can be heard ect. Not because I stomp my feet, but because when a forward power is generated, a downward /backward force is generated instantaneously too. That force goes into your root and give a downward force in the ground which causes this effect.

Regards, Lau (who doens't like to add variation to his jek bo. It is what it is)

OK, makes total sense now and ditto, same here.
Thank you, and for the record I don't add either. :-)

[Yum Cha]

This is one of those topics that showing takes seconds, but writing may never properly convey.

Vector is the key.

The exercise of Faat Ging is like taking a bucket of water and throwing it on someone. All the water goes onto them, and there is nothing but an empty vessel left behind.

Visually, you should see a clear focus and direction towards the target, with all energy, movement and focus going there.

if you see energy dissipating upward, downward, or backward, this is wasted energy, not focussed into your target.

There is definitely a charging aspect to Jik Bo, and thus the foot steps forward, I think however some people emphasise the 'stomp' more than others for effect.

Also, there is a stomping sound when some people drop, in that they lift their feet, and them come down on them when their weight catches up.

[diego]

Thanks! How's your training going? What is your class like? If you don't mind.

Buby It is an awesome class!. I got to meet and have dim sum with Sifu's teacher. Sifu has been doing Bak mei for like four decades..I've had the priviledge to see 10-70 year olds demo Jik Bo. I love seeing that person's original styles stances and bridges come out under the Bak mei structure. It saddens me that by the time I get good in like ten years Sifu will be near retiring. Makes me upset when I or my buddy misses a class. Random. Yall need to peep BLACK DYNAMITE LMAO@ "Dont call n interrupt my kung fu" when Jai White says kung fu treachery I just die.

[Jorge]

It is an awesome class!. I got to meet and have dim sum with Sifu's teacher. Sifu has been doing Bak mei for like four decades..I've had the priviledge to see 10-70 year olds demo Jik Bo. I love seeing that person's original styles stances and bridges come out under the Bak mei structure. It saddens me that by the time I get good in like ten years Sifu will be near retiring. Makes me upset when I or my buddy misses a class. Random. Yall need to peep BLACK DYNAMITE LMAO@ "Dont call n interrupt my kung fu" when Jai White says kung fu treachery I just die.

Sounds awesome! Ten years? Bro, train every day and most importantly train for real. Most people get caught up on forms, ging in forms, two man drills and forget about real fighting. Also, whatever you sifu teaches you, you need to pressure test it. Grab a buddy of yours that fights (we all have boys who like to fight..LOLOL) and do hands with him. You don't go into kickboxing mode, but really train the hands/legs/theories your sifu got you working on. Bro, Jik Bo is a excellent form to start with. Very easy to use once you break it apart. Its a simple one two combo, but can be trained differently depending on what you are trying to do to your opponent.

Black Dynamite was the shhhhh. Funny as hell.

Bless,

Buby

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is an awesome class!. I got to meet and have dim sum with Sifu's teacher. Sifu has been doing Bak mei for like four decades..I've had the priviledge to see 10-70 year olds demo Jik Bo. I love seeing that person's original styles stances and bridges come out under the Bak mei structure. It saddens me that by the time I get good in like ten years Sifu will be near retiring. Makes me upset when I or my buddy misses a class. Random. Yall need to peep BLACK DYNAMITE LMAO@ "Dont call n interrupt my kung fu" when Jai White says kung fu treachery I just die.

Why would you think it will take you 10 years to get good in Bak mei ??

[Yum Cha]

Why would you think it will take you 10 years to get good in Bak mei ??


Good point, make it 15....:D

[Tiger on Duty]

hello all been a few years since i posted here, but since that last vid was about Sifu Lee in New Zealand, my bai mei sifu i thought i might add a comment.

Jumping: Sifu Lee refers to this look as the body coiling/contracting into the strike and as stated earlier because there is no real target and the form is done somewhat to provide agood showcase, the movement gets exagerated.
In training the movement isnt stressed as much.

Wushu: Gary is partially right sifu was a wushu judge for tai chi and san shou, he doesnt really teach anything with wushu flavour(cept 24 frame tai chi), mainly because fighting is always his 1st aspect.
Sifu Lee's bai mei is enfluenced by his study of chen tai chi and his retirement to N.Z allowed him time to reflect on the power generation and techniques.

I agree with gary if anything calling itself ba mei doesnt have some physical relation to hk or futshan then its not bak mei(personally i dont even like some futshan, but they have called it bai mei longer than i have trained so i cant comment much on that).

The most important lesson i leanred is that bai mei is very fractured and there is no point worry about it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Good point, make it 15....:D

LMAO !!!
Nice one.

[Olaf]

I better hurry up then haha :D

[Lai See]

hello all been a few years since i posted here, but since that last vid was about Sifu Lee in New Zealand, my bai mei sifu i thought i might add a comment.

Jumping: Sifu Lee refers to this look as the body coiling/contracting into the strike and as stated earlier because there is no real target and the form is done somewhat to provide agood showcase, the movement gets exagerated.
In training the movement isnt stressed as much.

Wushu: Gary is partially right sifu was a wushu judge for tai chi and san shou, he doesnt really teach anything with wushu flavour(cept 24 frame tai chi), mainly because fighting is always his 1st aspect.
Sifu Lee's bai mei is enfluenced by his study of chen tai chi and his retirement to N.Z allowed him time to reflect on the power generation and techniques.

I agree with gary if anything calling itself ba mei doesnt have some physical relation to hk or futshan then its not bak mei(personally i dont even like some futshan, but they have called it bai mei longer than i have trained so i cant comment much on that).

The most important lesson i leanred is that bai mei is very fractured and there is no point worry about it.

Hi, where in NZ are you?

[Yum Cha]

hello all been a few years since i posted here, but since that last vid was about Sifu Lee in New Zealand, my bai mei sifu i thought i might add a comment.

Jumping: Sifu Lee refers to this look as the body coiling/contracting into the strike and as stated earlier because there is no real target and the form is done somewhat to provide agood showcase, the movement gets exagerated.
In training the movement isnt stressed as much.

Thanks Tiger, that was my thinking as well.

How have you been? How is Sifu Lee these days, its been very quiet from your side of the pond.

I'm not Gary, I'm the other one. :D

[Yum Cha]

LMAO !!!
Nice one.

(rimshot)...

I can offer this thought on the subject - if you can already fight, you can learn to fight USING Pak Mei quicker than if you don't.

There is a 'juice' you can add to any martial art with some Pak Mei skills. I'm not just talking about techniques, but more. That's one reason they call it a Master's style. But, that's not the same as learning the style.

Learning the style is zeno's paradox.

[Yum Cha]

I better hurry up then haha :D

Did I say, 15, Sorry, I meant 20.....slip of the tongue.

I dunno, maybe 25? LOL

[Lai See]

(rimshot)...

I can offer this thought on the subject - if you can already fight, you can learn to fight USING Pak Mei quicker than if you don't.

There is a 'juice' you can add to any martial art with some Pak Mei skills. I'm not just talking about techniques, but more. That's one reason they call it a Master's style. But, that's not the same as learning the style.

Learning the style is zeno's paradox.

Agree with all the above.
Pak Mei found me after more than 15 years in other style(s), and have stepped in and out of the ring so I know exactly what you mean.

[diego]

I'm lucky my sparring partner started Bak Mei on the same day as me and we both like to fight so I have no doubt that I will get the style soon enough. Sifu is so **** flexible four decades into the art I know I have a long way to go when it comes to using gung fu to age more gracefully. Sifu does the 3 internals as well as BM seeing him correct an old man's posture and teaching a kid to jump I know it will take a few years. hopefully not like 2.5 decades, lol.

[Tiger on Duty]

Its all good, Sifu Lee only teaches privately now.

He lives quite aways from me so ive taken up with Sifu Wong, studying baji chuan with a side portion of bagua zhang and a desert of pigua zhang.
Now that im no longer doing shiftwork, ive completed the external students baji, learnt 3 routines/techniques of bagua as warm ups and for body coiling(silk reeling) and softness and have started pigua as a complement for the baji.

Have to add i love the baji, those elbow techniques are just awesome.
Lineage is from li shu wen via Taiwan, lucky again with my Sifu he is disciple to GM Liu.
Dont think i ever thought i would have a chance to study under 2 such skilled masters, but glad they chose auckland lol.
Also never intended studying more than one style, but im happy with what ive got.
I might not end up being bruce lee but i will be able to pass on 1-2 styles with confidence that there tradition is upheld for anther generation.

I should really get back to Sifu Lee and finish upto 9 steps, which is the furthest a non disciple can go.

My sihing (sifu lee)terence has completed the pak mei and through his hard work was rewarded with a disciple position, he deserves it for sure the best fighter from our club, also totally pak mei hard core lol.

hows life treating you yum cha, yeh i did get you mixed up with garry for abit there, my apologies havent been on any forums for a few years.
hope you and your master are well, i expect you can crush coconuts with your testicles now :)

[diego]

Does anyone know how Cheung Lai Chuen passed away? all I found was "debilitating disease"...I'm curious if some gung fu can be bad on the heart holding the breath and squeezing the muscles and all...

[diego]

Some old BM articles in PDf format..


http://books.google.ca/books?id=adIDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=cheung+lai+cheun&source=bl&ots=SjeDUw5ViX&sig=l_XqaaIzq_NgLxIiS_LIAU7c1QU&hl=en&ei=p9vIS9jGIojMsgPK0Zz1BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAjge#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.pakmei-uk.com/index-old.htm

go to "PAK MEI REFS" like 11 articles.

[TAO YIN]

Some interesting Bak Mei info...And an interesting form too.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkG37PSGEtE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGBLGwnAsIE&feature=related

[diego]

Some interesting Bak Mei info...And an interesting form too.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkG37PSGEtE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGBLGwnAsIE&feature=related

looks like sanchin kata blended with sup gee with zero transmissions plus little footwork. interesting for sure, I wonder if he did karate & started learning BM?.

[Yum Cha]

The form is called Say Mun, 4 doors.

[Olaf]

I personally prefer the performance of the set in this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGr35kPHe-k

[Yum Cha]

I personally prefer the performance of the set in this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGr35kPHe-k

Yes indeed, very nice work. I like it a lot more, for sure.

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZEiLXs7iI8&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyA0_qmRu-Y&NR=1

Just found these links from Vancouver for those interested in Bak Mei:cool:

[Faruq]

Sounds awesome! Ten years? Bro, train every day and most importantly train for real. Most people get caught up on forms, ging in forms, two man drills and forget about real fighting. Also, whatever you sifu teaches you, you need to pressure test it. Grab a buddy of yours that fights (we all have boys who like to fight..LOLOL) and do hands with him. You don't go into kickboxing mode, but really train the hands/legs/theories your sifu got you working on. Bro, Jik Bo is a excellent form to start with. Very easy to use once you break it apart. Its a simple one two combo, but can be trained differently depending on what you are trying to do to your opponent.

Black Dynamite was the shhhhh. Funny as hell.

Bless,

Buby

Unfortunately everybody doesn't have boys who like to fight. I'd love to see video of this training method, and how it's done properly without reverting to kickboxing mode. I don't believe it can be done in the pressure of combat, or at least it'd be real hard to do under that pressure.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Unfortunately everybody doesn't have boys who like to fight. I'd love to see video of this training method, and how it's done properly without reverting to kickboxing mode. I don't believe it can be done in the pressure of combat, or at least it'd be real hard to do under that pressure.

Kickboxing is the most natural way to fight.
With Bak mei and other southern systems, you kind of go "against" nature and that is why it is so crucial to spar others OUTSIDE the system.
It takes a bit of work but in the end what you have, hopefully, is something that you bring to the table that is very different from the everyday blend and, hopefully, that can give you an edge.

[Faruq]

Yeah, I guess you're right and I shouldn't say that because if I'm not mistaken Black Taoist has tons of videos on youtube of exactly that type of training (though not in Bak Mei of course). I should just watch a few of his videos probably if I want to see how this training is done properly. But from everyone's posts I should probably avoid videos of the guy "Maoshan", because apparently he always gets beaten up in his videos.

Oh, and I found this interesting blurb on PakMet.net since this is a Bak Mei thread:

"David Wong - Chan Dor's Nephew (Tuesday, January 15, 2002)

Mr. doucet:
Sometimes one focuses so much on one thing and misses everything else. I mean, while I was seeing everything in Pak Mei in you web site, I can not believe I missed the name Danny Pai. This name rings a bell. Then after a long "meditation", I remember an event that occurred over 30 years ago. I think you will get a kick out of this:

It was sometime in the early 70's. Aaron Bank was putting up a show in New York's Madison Square Garden called "The Oriental World of Self-Defense" (or something close to that. After all, it was 30 years ago). That was one of the earliest "shows" Aaron Bank conducted. I was part of an Iaido group to do an exhibition there. My Iaido teacher (and most of the martial artists at that time) was not aware of how this show would turn out but happy to be part of it, as it showed the world what the Oriental Self-defenses are all about (or better yet, what they look like). So, before our turn, we got to watch the others perform.

Then, after I saw all these "masters" flying over 15 chairs to break one board with a flying side kick, etc., I began to felt really disappointed and just about to leave my spot and go back stage to see if I can find a place to lay down and take a nap. I heard the MC call out someone called Daniel Pai to perform. I turned around and saw this big Hawaiian/Philippino/Asian looking person get on the ring (yes, it was a boxing ring, that much I remembered). He wore a dark blue with white dots outfit not like any of the karate or gung fu uniforms.

I told myself: Oh no, here is another freak! But he changed my view after I saw his performance. He showed no Kata, form or whatever. He was alone on stage. He brought a few boards to break. I was about to turn away thinking this is another of those board breaking shows. Then, he held 3 board with his left hand using only his fingers (much like a waiter would hold the tray for your drinks). then he broke the boards with his right wrist without even lifting his right arm. I was stunned. Then he did a few more breaks using his finger tips, wrist, etc. All in close distance, without Kia, raising of the arms, or anything dramatic. In fact, he was explaining how he will break the boards and breaking them at the same time. I was so impressed that I don't remember the details of the rest of the breaks. Then, Mr. Pai bowed and stepped out of the ring and disappeared back stage.

The next thing I remember was our group was on stage (in the ring) going through our performance, but all that time I was still thinking about the way Mr. Pai broke those boards. He broke those boards like I break toothpicks. He did it with such ease and grace that made the other "black-belt Masters" looks like they are trying too hard. Afterwards, our Iaido group went out to eat and all we talked about was Mr. Pai's breaking. Nobody remembered any person in that exhibition coming close to Mr. Pai.

This is one of those good memories that one gets when seeing a great master perform, or a great movie, a master piece of work from an artist, that make you say: "Ah...that IS wonderful..." or..."That's how it SHOULD be done". If you are in that art, this memory would make you push yourself even harder when you are about to give up on you effort.

I will always remember Mr Pai's breaking on that day.

David Wong"

[sanjuro_ronin]

Faruq, from what I gather from Maoshan's training clips and his defeats, his problem is that I addressed in my post:
Not Enough sparring of people outside your own system.
You have to learn how to apply your chosen MA and doing it VS itself ( a fellow student) will teach you how to apply is VS pak mei ( for example) and NOT VS MT or BJJ or MMA or whatever.
This is even more crucial in systems that seek bridges or destroy bridges or are bridge oriented, why?
Because most modern fighting system do NOT use or "give" bridges.
See what I mean?

Nice story from Mike Doucet's website.

[Faruq]

lol Maybe the Black Taoist should give him some pointers, especially if he's his brother. And great points you make about the sparring with people outside your system and how people don't even use or give bridges nowadays.


And the stuff on that website is very impressive! If it's all true, and I'd have no way to know one way or another, but if it is then anyone who learned from them'd be an incredible fighter.
Canada seems to be as much of a hotbed of top notch martial artists as Australia.

And interestingly enough, they've now got Yau Kung Mun listed on the site as a related system.

[Jorge]

Faruq, from what I gather from Maoshan's training clips and his defeats, his problem is that I addressed in my post:
Not Enough sparring of people outside your own system.
You have to learn how to apply your chosen MA and doing it VS itself ( a fellow student) will teach you how to apply is VS pak mei ( for example) and NOT VS MT or BJJ or MMA or whatever.
This is even more crucial in systems that seek bridges or destroy bridges or are bridge oriented, why?
Because most modern fighting system do NOT use or "give" bridges.
See what I mean?

Nice story from Mike Doucet's website.


You're 100% correct! Although, a bridge can always be established (in the same way one can always be taken down to the ground). Hence, the reason for training outside the box. A parry is a bridge, now what you do with that bridge is up to the individual.


Bless,

Buby

[Jorge]

And interestingly enough, they've now got Yau Kung Mun listed on the site as a related system.

Nah, they've always kept it real. I noticed that a couple of years ago.

Bless,

Buby

[Jorge]

Unfortunately everybody doesn't have boys who like to fight. I'd love to see video of this training method, and how it's done properly without reverting to kickboxing mode. I don't believe it can be done in the pressure of combat, or at least it'd be real hard to do under that pressure.


In the beginning you might revert to kick boxing and thats ok, but thats why having a sifu/coach in your corner to stop and correct your actions is important.

First off, who's applying the pressure? Short hand systems dictate that you must be aggressive while being passive. Even if you punch first, my mind set has me looking for an opening to counter and land first. It all comes down to understanding your principals and training them properly for combat. Learning to fight your fight is very important. Which includes lots of repetition (I'm not talking forms), conditioning and fighting. How many hours you think a serious boxer puts in the gym to get his form? Like a boxer you have to be put under pressure, you have to see that you can handle it, so that you're no longer afraid. When you're no longer afraid you can begin to have fun. In kung fu it comes more gradually than boxing, due to having more to work with and the intent is different (with the exception to people like a young Mike Tyson). Bro, at times you have to let that dark side come out and be like f*ck it! Reminds of a saying sifu has "Off with the gloves and out with the Pheonix Eyes"

Bless,



Buby

[Syn7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Nk46g6H2o&feature=related

What's the lineage of this Sup Gee?...looks a lot different than what I'm being shown in Vancouver through Yip Chi Sum lineage.
More questions to follow.

Peace

im pretty sure he's a dragon house guy... foshan... under zhong luo... i could be wrong tho, but im pretty sure i saw another one of his vids and put that together...

[Syn7]

LMFAO!!!:D

Doo studied in HK with you lots hero, CLC. If he also did with WW, then fine. Great for him.

Anyways, so let me get this right...

Lai Yip Jeurng,
Yum Yeurng Kum La Sau,
Bil Jee,
Sut Choy,
Chum Choy Toi,
Kol La Fu Jow,
Gwok Jeurng,
Soy Kuil,

This isn't principles from Bak Mei Jik Bo?

my understanding is that its a rip off from doing short time with yip chi sum in vancouver... not lacy, but doo wai... i also believe he claimed to have already learned backmei in guangzhou...

[Syn7]

:confused:

Are you talking to me or everyone? Because me personally...I am not buying ANYTHING without bargaining (lived in China too long), and if I am talking to a Chinese Kung Fu Man Sifu...I'll bargain and ask them all kinds of nasty little questions, in their own language no less. This usually gets "them" to walk the other way quickly, (especially the language bit), and fumble around in their pockets for half a dozen smokes (glad I quit)...

The question stays,

Why would Wai have complete knowledge and understanding of the entire Bak Mei system???

Was he the first home video student of Bak Mei back in the days or some shiit? hehehe! :D


he doesnt... he has like five forms from the clc hk line that he learned in vancouver for like a year...

[Syn7]

Originally Posted by Reality_Check
With regards to Lama Pai Sifu's comment about Bak Fu Pai and it's appearance as "sloppy" Bak Mei, these two clips seem to support his contention.

Bak Fu Pai (beginning at the 1:20 or so mark):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s--J4EihtM

Bak Mei Jik Bo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccUjuaGTllQ

The movements are identical and in the same sequence. Could it be that Bak Fu Pai is simply renamed Bak Mei? Perhaps Doo Wai decided to create a new style from Bak Mei, giving it a secret history, as he couldn't compete with higher generation Bak Mei teachers (such as Chin D'or). Such things have been known to happen in the past. Please note, this is a supposition, but the lack of a verifiable lineage, as well as the pronounced similarities to Bak Mei, make it a legitimate line of inquiry.

that's the jik bo i know... sifu lees that is... that vid is nice...

[Syn7]

The Sifu Wu who posted that video is from Australia, and does Futsan Pak Mei, amongst a number of other southern styles. He has a lot of good info, and has spent a good amount of time in China researching traditional Southern MA.

Not Wilkie Wu from Vancouver.

That vid looks more like Futsan Pak Mei to me from the way they do the salute and the little detail moves they insert.

i am 99.9999999% sure that was clc....

what do you think of wilkie wu's bak mei???? does anyone have video of him???

[TAO YIN]

Syn7,

I said this in this thread earlier but noone replied but,

Isn't Doo-- Wilkie Wu anyways? Wasn't that the story here about 8 years back or so? That his real name was Wilkie Wu, and that after some triad nastyness, his wife and child got killed, and he fled to America??? This was the story spouted about 8 years back. Good story until everyone realizes, or had realized, that Wilkie Wu was and is a real person living in Canada, who never fled Canada...


A simple question I have about Doo Wai...Where is he from in China?

Just a question for fun...Why would Doo Wai leave China, and Macau, and Hong Kong, and Taiwan, just to go to Canada to learn Bak Mei?

Curiosity questions...Why would masters on the West Coast respect him? Share K. Lew??? Why would he respect Doo Wai if he had nothing?

How did all of this "stay quiet" until the mid 90s, when the dude was known in the Mo Lum since the seventies? Did it take 20 years for people to figure all this out or something?

Noone knows it seems. All the stories that bash this guy, are just as ridiculous as his family inherited stories if you really look at it. Look, I am all for finding out exact truths. I am not talking about respectful truths just because so and so said. There is better ways of finding things out.

I have seen vids of the guy performing forms that are basically identical to most all of the known BM forms. Why?

[Faruq]

Syn7,

I said this in this thread earlier but noone replied but,

Isn't Doo-- Wilkie Wu anyways? Wasn't that the story here about 8 years back or so? That his real name was Wilkie Wu, and that after some triad nastyness, his wife and child got killed, and he fled to America??? This was the story spouted about 8 years back. Good story until everyone realizes, or had realized, that Wilkie Wu was and is a real person living in Canada, who never fled Canada...


A simple question I have about Doo Wai...Where is he from in China?

Just a question for fun...Why would Doo Wai leave China, and Macau, and Hong Kong, and Taiwan, just to go to Canada to learn Bak Mei?

Curiosity questions...Why would masters on the West Coast respect him? Share K. Lew??? Why would he respect Doo Wai if he had nothing?

How did all of this "stay quiet" until the mid 90s, when the dude was known in the Mo Lum since the seventies? Did it take 20 years for people to figure all this out or something?

Noone knows it seems. All the stories that bash this guy, are just as ridiculous as his family inherited stories if you really look at it. Look, I am all for finding out exact truths. I am not talking about respectful truths just because so and so said. There is better ways of finding things out.

I have seen vids of the guy performing forms that are basically identical to most all of the known BM forms. Why?

No man, Wilkie Woo (Woo Wai Quan) is currently a sifu for pakmei.net. He's listed there on several pages:

http://www.pakmei.net/articles/article.asp?ID=13
http://www.pakmei.net/articles/article.asp?ID=20
and right their on the home page: http://www.pakmei.net/
http://www.bakmei.ca/

[TAO YIN]

Faruq,

I know. What I wrote is a rumour that was floating around like 10 years ago.

You are Doo Wai's student. Where is he from in China?

[Syn7]

No man, Wilkie Woo (Woo Wai Quan) is currently a sifu for pakmei.net. He's listed there on several pages:

http://www.pakmei.net/articles/article.asp?ID=13
http://www.pakmei.net/articles/article.asp?ID=20
and right their on the home page: http://www.pakmei.net/
http://www.bakmei.ca/


no he isnt... pakmei.net is ontario... wu wai-kwan is in vancouver http://www.bakmei.ca/main.html

if you read doucets articles and all that you will see that wilkie wu donated one form i think... thats the extent of their affiliation... doucets site isnt even linked in wilkies link page...

[Syn7]

FARUQ

where in the articles you referenced does it say that wilkie is a sifu for the school in ontario???

wilkie is legit and can document his lineage and history, not only with documentation but also with pictures... alone either of these could be suspect but together they paint a pretty iron clad picture... not to mention that he is recognized by the clc fam... he trained not only under yip chi sum but also under the famous late chow fuk and the late kwok chi cheung...

[Faruq]

Faruq,

I know. What I wrote is a rumour that was floating around like 10 years ago.

You are Doo Wai's student. Where is he from in China?

I've never been a Doo Wai student. I did buy a couple of videos from his whitetigerkungfu.com website with Dan LaRochelle several years back, but I was never an actual "student". I don't think Doo Wai has told anyone the truth about where he's from in China. I once saw him post here that he had been friends with Ark Yuey Wong if I'm not mistaken, but I don't think Ark Wong even knew the truth. It would be great if someone could find out, and see what people in his village would say about his family and Bak Fu Pai. That'd clear up a lot of conjecture....or maybe it wouldn't, lol....

[Faruq]

no he isnt... pakmei.net is ontario... wu wai-kwan is in vancouver http://www.bakmei.ca/main.html

if you read doucets articles and all that you will see that wilkie wu donated one form i think... thats the extent of their affiliation... doucets site isnt even linked in wilkies link page...

Okay then, because he's just listed on all the pages I put the links up to. Thanks for the correction.

[scottdurand]

Fascinating topic and replies. Thanks for the great thread on this wonderful style.

[Syn7]

anyone else know the titles of some good bak mei books... any lineage... titles? authors? links?

[Fung Ngan]

anyone else know the titles of some good bak mei books... any lineage... titles? authors? links?

Depends what you would like to know about Pak Mei.

Personally I favor: Pak Mei Kungfu - The Myth & the Martial arts by S.L. Fung and in Chinese the book of Pak Mei Boxing by ZhiZui Wong (内家勁功白眉拳 - 黃志軍).
A must have is most possible Pak Mei Kungfu of H.B. Un.

Links? Of course ours ...(www.pakmeipai.nl):D

[Syn7]

Depends what you would like to know about Pak Mei.

Personally I favor: Pak Mei Kungfu - The Myth & the Martial arts by S.L. Fung and in Chinese the book of Pak Mei Boxing by ZhiZui Wong (内家勁功白眉拳 - 黃志軍).
A must have is most possible Pak Mei Kungfu of H.B. Un.

Links? Of course ours ...(www.pakmeipai.nl):D

any and all man, any and all... any line, any country, any language etc etc... i am looking at all bak mei info i can get my hands on... :D

oh i meant links for downloading books :rolleyes:
thanx for those titles...

[Syn7]

jie kon sieuw, nice... ive been all over that site ever since i found it... i like the flash... esspecially with the lineage in hakka pinyin and cantonese... its a nice map tho... aesthetically i mean... somebody put some real time into that site forsure... is there anywhere i can see some video on any of the forms? even if its just the first few...??? how far into the program are you?

thanx again...:rolleyes:

[Yum Cha]

Syn7,

The webmaster at the Dutch Pak Mei site is too modest.

They have undoubtedly the best web resource going.

They list all the articles, books and videos that are or were available.

They also have the best catalogue of worldwide Pak Mei sites as well.

Top effort guys!

[Vince]

http://www.pakmei.de has also a decent list of books and articles; and also a link to a "Mang Fu Chu Lum"-video in the video section.

[diego]

Anyone seen CLC's fierce tiger exits cave form? I can only find a few pic's of my sigung posing tiger claws from it on the Vancouver webpage. You have to get good at the basic forms on both sides before you can do GBT with proper power wich takes like 3-5 years...our best guy is ten years in demoed ten elements form and said he hasn't even thought about attempting to learn the fierce tiger set and dude is quick as hell plus pretty buff would be a good ring fighter with his build...anyway, have yall seen it n have any pics, does Guangzhou and Foshan have this set?.

[Syn7]

"Ferocious Tiger Exits Forest"

[diego]

"Ferocious Tiger Exits Forest"

tiger leaves cave and goes fishing is a popular shaolin method...i don't think "tiger" is a chinese term syn lol.

[Fung Ngan]

Anyone seen CLC's fierce tiger exits cave form? I can only find a few pic's of my sigung posing tiger claws from it on the Vancouver webpage. You have to get good at the basic forms on both sides before you can do GBT with proper power wich takes like 3-5 years...our best guy is ten years in demoed ten elements form and said he hasn't even thought about attempting to learn the fierce tiger set and dude is quick as hell plus pretty buff would be a good ring fighter with his build...anyway, have yall seen it n have any pics, does Guangzhou and Foshan have this set?.

Most Bai Mei branches have Meng Fu Chu Lin (猛虎出林) although the form can be different. Footage is rare. The Yun Fu branch of Bai Mei (Guangzhou Bai Mei) have their variation. Theirs can be seen:
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/FohBvK0vITw/

[Syn7]

nice... thanx for that... :D wish i could download it somehow... i only have one that works for youtube videos...
ive never seen the form before... never seen anyone do it at school, or if they did i didnt know thats what it was... you dont watch other people train, its just a part of that unwritten code... work your own program, nobody elses... but its pretty cool to see the last form... i wonder how close that is to ours... guess i'll find out in a few years... i plan on seeing it through tho... i want to have the whole style... somewhere along the line im going to do lung ying aswell... theres a school down the block that is closely related to ours and some students already do both... im diggin these hakka styles... very nice hands... strong legs... fast... simply direct... love it...;)

[diego]

Most Bai Mei branches have Meng Fu Chu Lin (猛虎出林) although the form can be different. Footage is rare. The Yun Fu branch of Bai Mei (Guangzhou Bai Mei) have their variation. Theirs can be seen:
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/FohBvK0vITw/ Thanks Fung Ngan, I would have never found this :) Does any one have clips of BM tonfa?. There is a good article in that UK link titled "The Treasured Weapon PM Double-Crutch" by Sifu Cheng Chun Ki.

[Olaf]

Pak Mei Tonfa's on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO0GBnXjyPU

I never learned the form myself so I don't know how authentic this form is. It is just the only vid I found on pak mei tonfa so far :)

[diego]

Thanks Olaf I don't have video on my phone I have to watch them tommorow so please post whatever you can..are there a lot of banquet demo's on Chinese web pages any one know?.

[Olaf]

I just posted this one because I knew I saw it in the past. Just have a look around on Youtube. Plenty of videos there.

[Syn7]

Pak Mei Tonfa's on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO0GBnXjyPU

I never learned the form myself so I don't know how authentic this form is. It is just the only vid I found on pak mei tonfa so far :)

nice.... thanx:D

[TAO YIN]

I have heard a few times that Meng Fu Chut Lum is meant to develop 'Geng Jak Ging' specifically from the wrist to the fingertips by using the 4 powers of the hand with soft power in connection with the coordinates. The idea being that the coordinates of the body are all mostly in unison already, but that the wrists are what is left because they are the hardest to connect with the rest of the body since they are the faarthest from the 'Dan Tian.'

Is this true? What was Meng Fu Chut Lum designed for?

[soulfist]

Geng Jak Ging starts at the very foundation and doesnt need a specific form to develop it. There seems to be little to no concrete knowledge about Mang Fu Chut Lum and thus people attach things like that to it.

Train and understand the "4 ends" and "6 forces" and you will understand not only Bak Mei but kung fu. Its not about taking the chi to the furthest points from the dantien, its about getting the chi to leave the body! 4 ends is about propagating chi to the 4 conduits for that purpose. 2 ends of the spine (top and botton) and 2 ends of the spinal branches (hands and feet). Think about it and you will disagree, do it and you will see that its true. Theory must be derived from proper practice and dedication!

[TAO YIN]

Soulfist,

Excellent post! What is Meng Fu Chut Lum for though? If all these forms develop Geng Jak Ging, albeit in different ways, what makes them any different besides physical movement? What does Gau Bo Tui develop that Jik Bo doesn't? What does Sup Baat develop that Gau Bo Tui doesn't? What does Meng Fu develop that Sup Baat doesnt? That is besides different physical movements for all the forms...Of course the physical movements are going to make the body react differently due to how each form was designed. That isn't my question though.

What does Meng Fu actually develop that makes it so secretive, special, and the like? What is Meng Fu for?

If proper kinematics occurs with each move in every form, then each move would be correct. The physical differences simply occur because of the physics behind each movement. The mind's intent now, is a whole other story...

Does Meng Fu Chut Lum do something that overcomes the laws of physics or something???:D

[soulfist]

Well, Ive learned the long list of forms from my many teachers, but it wasnt until I followed a different method that it all became clear. Though its different from person to person and not written in stone my schools method (from Siu Ting Fun) follows power development over technique development with the core forms:

1) Jik Bo Biu Ji Keun = "yum yeung ging (yinyang force)" which is 2 component force.
2) Sek Si Sup Ji Keun = "sup ji ging (cross force)" which is 4 directional force of the torso.
3) Luk Ging Gau Bo Tui = "luk ging (6 force)" which is 6 directional force of the whole body, and exploring the 6 directions in single areas like the hand.
4) Sup Baat Moh Kiu Gung = "sei sau (4 ends)" which is about chi propagation and greatly softens the former material giving greater flow.
5) Ng Hang Moh Kiu Gung = "ng hang (5 elements)" which is about tendon training, but basically takes all that was learned and consolidates it better, then takes it further!

Something like that. You could develop that all with one form if you liked, but our take on the developmental aspect of Bak Mei within the curriculum is this. The other forms are for techniques... but if one does their power training properly then minimal techniques become more desirable. Theres more than enough techniques in just those 5 forms but this is simply our take on Bak Mei.

The style was founded on 3 forms anyway, and the rest were specifically made as stepping stones. Follow and master the "3 pillars of Bak Mei" using whatever stepping stones you need, and then you are doing what Jeung Lai Cheun did!

[diego]

Well, Ive learned the long list of forms from my many teachers, but it wasnt until I followed a different method that it all became clear. Though its different from person to person and not written in stone my schools method (from Siu Ting Fun) follows power development over technique development with the core forms:

1) Jik Bo Biu Ji Keun = "yum yeung ging (yinyang force)" which is 2 component force.
2) Sek Si Sup Ji Keun = "sup ji ging (cross force)" which is 4 directional force of the torso.
3) Luk Ging Gau Bo Tui = "luk ging (6 force)" which is 6 directional force of the whole body, and exploring the 6 directions in single areas like the hand.
4) Sup Baat Moh Kiu Gung = "sei sau (4 ends)" which is about chi propagation and greatly softens the former material giving greater flow.
5) Ng Hang Moh Kiu Gung = "ng hang (5 elements)" which is about tendon training, but basically takes all that was learned and consolidates it better, then takes it further!

Something like that. You could develop that all with one form if you liked, but our take on the developmental aspect of Bak Mei within the curriculum is this. The other forms are for techniques... but if one does their power training properly then minimal techniques become more desirable. Theres more than enough techniques in just those 5 forms but this is simply our take on Bak Mei.

The style was founded on 3 forms anyway, and the rest were specifically made as stepping stones. Follow and master the "3 pillars of Bak Mei" using whatever stepping stones you need, and then you are doing what Jeung Lai Cheun did!


After moving to Guangzhou, Cheung was defeated by the monk Lin Sang[10] after which the monk referred Cheung to his own teacher master Juk Faat Wan, who taught Cheung the art of Bak Mei over the next two or three years. Cheung had a background in Hakka Kuen, the martial arts of the Hakka people, from his study of Li Mung's family style and the vagrant style. Because of this, Cheung's style of Bak Mei is associated with Hakka kuen, but more strongly still with the dragon style of Lam Yiu-Kwai—who is also said to have had a background in Hakka Kuen—due to the many years Cheung and Lam spent training together.

Soulfist any idea what these three forms looked like?. I'm guessing it was mostly bridge drills and chi gong...

[soulfist]

The three pillar forms were:

1) Gau Bo Tui
2) Sup Baat Moh Kiu
3) Mang Fu Chut Lam

and one original weapon:

Wui Waan Seung Gwai - the double crutches


It was also said that years after departing from Juk Faat Wun, either Jeung Lai Cheun or one of his students returned and found the monk Lin Sang, Juk's other disciple. From him one additional or perhaps untransmitted form was learned, called Ng Ying Keun (5 animal fist).

Lung Ying is a similar shape art which weve all seen too.

Lau Man Paai (wanderers style) is hard to guess at. One of my teachers said this is the style of Sou Hat Yi (Beggar Sou) who taught the Drunken Form to Jeung. But really Ive yet to find any substantial info on this style, as it seems to be already extinct!

[kung fu fighter]

[QUOTE=soulfist;1038292]
2) Sek Si Sup Ji Keun = "sup ji ging (cross force)" which is 4 directional force of the torso.
3) Luk Ging Gau Bo Tui = "luk ging (6 force)" which is 6 directional force of the whole body, and exploring the 6 directions in single areas like the hand.
[QUOTE]

Hi soulfist,

Can you give a more insights as to how exactly the above two froces are done as well as what the purpose of them are?

thanks in advance
Nav

[Syn7]

The three pillar forms were:

1) Gau Bo Tui
2) Sup Baat Moh Kiu
3) Mang Fu Chut Lam

and one original weapon:

Wui Waan Seung Gwai - the double crutches


It was also said that years after departing from Juk Faat Wun, either Jeung Lai Cheun or one of his students returned and found the monk Lin Sang, Juk's other disciple. From him one additional or perhaps untransmitted form was learned, called Ng Ying Keun (5 animal fist).

Lung Ying is a similar shape art which weve all seen too.

Lau Man Paai (wanderers style) is hard to guess at. One of my teachers said this is the style of Sou Hat Yi (Beggar Sou) who taught the Drunken Form to Jeung. But really Ive yet to find any substantial info on this style, as it seems to be already extinct!


ng ying is taught at our school... its the second last empty hand form... right before Ferocious Tiger Exits Forest, which is the last...

the double crutches is also a bit later in the system at our school... you learn battlefield staff, broadsword and bench first...

[soulfist]

Sup Ji Ging is performed with the torso. The spine activates the vertical component and the upper and lower kua activate the horizontal component. How... you need a teacher to show you.

What is it for? First you develop skill and force in the hands. Everyone does this. Second you develop skill and force in the stance. Far fewer reach this. Third... if the stance doesnt drive the hands then theres no need to develop it. It is linked through the body, and that is where Sup Ji Ging comes in. It isnt a static posture, its a movement or San Faat (body technique) Of the people in Bak Mei Ive seen out there, the people who can actually do this fundamental component I can count on one hand!

Luk Ging is full body but can be developed in isolated areas for higher development. It is literally force in 6 directions, and the next stage in the development of Yum Yeung Ging.

What is it for? I would describe the force of a bullet fired from a pistol vs a long barreled shotgun... meaning that it reinforces and magnifies the force and precision of power.

You punch... that fist goes forward. Is there a backward motion to counterbalance it? Is there and upward and downward force to stabilize it? Is there a left and right force to enhance it? Yes, but if you think it requires no attention beyond recognition you are wrong. The perfection of the motion of the 5 secondary directions is far far more important than attention on the 1 primary direction!

[Jorge]

Sup Ji Ging is performed with the torso. The spine activates the vertical component and the upper and lower kua activate the horizontal component. How... you need a teacher to show you.

What is it for? First you develop skill and force in the hands. Everyone does this. Second you develop skill and force in the stance. Far fewer reach this. Third... if the stance doesnt drive the hands then theres no need to develop it. It is linked through the body, and that is where Sup Ji Ging comes in. It isnt a static posture, its a movement or San Faat (body technique) Of the people in Bak Mei Ive seen out there, the people who can actually do this fundamental component I can count on one hand!

Luk Ging is full body but can be developed in isolated areas for higher development. It is literally force in 6 directions, and the next stage in the development of Yum Yeung Ging.

What is it for? I would describe the force of a bullet fired from a pistol vs a long barreled shotgun... meaning that it reinforces and magnifies the force and precision of power.

You punch... that fist goes forward. Is there a backward motion to counterbalance it? Is there and upward and downward force to stabilize it? Is there a left and right force to enhance it? Yes, but if you think it requires no attention beyond recognition you are wrong. The perfection of the motion of the 5 secondary directions is far far more important than attention on the 1 primary direction!

Sifu would have me train my fast forms slow just so I could see and feel where the power was coming from and how the body works. His break downs of the body in motion completely changed my understandings. He tells me all the time to pay attention to the circles and I've found that its the lil things that make the difference. Thanks for sharing.

We also have Ng Ying. Is it only taught in China?

Bless,

Buby

[TAO YIN]

Awesome posts and topics! I was just thinking about 9 step and 18 bridges. What are these numbers for? Why is 9 step, 9 step? The character for 9 doesn't look like 9 step does it? Are there actually supposed to be 9 steps because there isn't? Do you write 9 in the air with your hands as you are doing the form? Are there 9 steps for off-balancing and dealing with footwork?

What about 18 bridges. I have heard that there are 18 bridges, 9 soft and 9 hard, all relating to the 18 points. What are the 18 points of Bak Mei? With all these numbers, the more I think about it, the more confused I am! :confused:

[diego]

Taoyin do you know nine step shape form?.

[TAO YIN]

Diego,

Yes, I know that form. Do you like that form?

[diego]

I was told when done proper the feet leave nine shape.

[Yum Cha]

9 different attack combinations, perhaps?

[Syn7]

Awesome posts and topics! I was just thinking about 9 step and 18 bridges. What are these numbers for? Why is 9 step, 9 step? The character for 9 doesn't look like 9 step does it? Are there actually supposed to be 9 steps because there isn't? Do you write 9 in the air with your hands as you are doing the form? Are there 9 steps for off-balancing and dealing with footwork?

What about 18 bridges. I have heard that there are 18 bridges, 9 soft and 9 hard, all relating to the 18 points. What are the 18 points of Bak Mei? With all these numbers, the more I think about it, the more confused I am! :confused:

i thought that before too... ur the first ive heard say it tho... funny... so true...

[Olaf]

Regarding Nine Step Push I heard it is based on an old set/exercise called 3 step push. This patern is repeated 3 times hence Nine Step Push.

[Yum Cha]

Regarding Nine Step Push I heard it is based on an old set/exercise called 3 step push. This patern is repeated 3 times hence Nine Step Push.

Olaf,
Yes, there's a funny thing going on, with the nine moves, most are composed of combinations of 3 (the 4th is sometimes a transition, or there can be some steps). Sometimes when I count it out it works, sometimes not, it is a bit of a puzzle.
There are the parts that repeat, so I count them once in the 9.

Also, the sets of 3 can sometimes be altered to drop one from before, and add one from after, changing the flow and application. Also,

The signature move, with the clearing hands, has 3 parts, done 3 times.

Also, as a tidbit, I count the steps. Its always different, but between 100 and 120, supposedly, its 108.

Now, I don't think this means anything, just trivia. Exploring it, however, did yield some interesting results, so have at it.

And remember, somebody along the line may have added something that throws the numbers off.... If indeed they mean anything to begin with! LOL...

[Syn7]

i cant place it, but ive read about the 3 step push in my bak mei research... cant remember where... may have been the pak mei ass. in hk website...


yeah, we count it off too... sifu will be like, okay start at 37... makes it easier...

[Olaf]

Yum Cha,

You are right in the changes and that you can count them in different ways. Of course we don't know for sure what is the orgin of the name but i just liked this one. The one of making the character nine on the floor also seems quite well accepted. I will try tomorrow if i can make that one work! :)

[Yum Cha]

i cant place it, but ive read about the 3 step push in my bak mei research... cant remember where... may have been the pak mei ass. in hk website...


yeah, we count it off too... sifu will be like, okay start at 37... makes it easier...

Hi Syn,
I don't count it off like that, just on occasion when I'm playing around with it.

I think the 3 step push, and jik bo, and the sam bo Jin (SPM 3 step) may have all come from a similar place. There is a suggestion of southern white crane San Chen....

And they all seem to be hakka arts.

Its getting pretty forensic to try and take it back like that...

[diego]

Hi Syn,
I don't count it off like that, just on occasion when I'm playing around with it.

I think the 3 step push, and jik bo, and the sam bo Jin (SPM 3 step) may have all come from a similar place. There is a suggestion of southern white crane San Chen....

And they all seem to be hakka arts.

Its getting pretty forensic to try and take it back like that... lol in the advanced class sifu said stop counting it slows you down it's good for learning sections in the beginning...have you guys seen many gung fu sets that leave a shape in the sand? never heard of it until recently...

[diego]

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTE0OTI0ODgw.html

2004 Celebration of Great Master Cheung Lai Chuen's Birthday Anniversary. Demos are found between the 8:00 and 35:00 minute marks.

[Yum Cha]

lol in the advanced class sifu said stop counting it slows you down it's good for learning sections in the beginning...have you guys seen many gung fu sets that leave a shape in the sand? never heard of it until recently...


Yea, the shape in the sand thing is pretty fun. Never much concerned myself with that side of it though. The issue with counting, try to separate your breathing next....:D

[Syn7]

Yea, the shape in the sand thing is pretty fun. Never much concerned myself with that side of it though. The issue with counting, try to separate your breathing next....:D

you should watch the video diego posted... its long but its interesting... you get to see a bunch of sup jee with lil variations between skools... some guys do swords and staff too, very similar to ours here in vancouver... we are clc hk line... theres lots of other forms i havent learned yet too... i cant say much about them since i havent broken them down and been taught yet, but they are fun to watch none the less...

[Yum Cha]

you should watch the video diego posted... its long but its interesting... you get to see a bunch of sup jee with lil variations between skools... some guys do swords and staff too, very similar to ours here in vancouver... we are clc hk line... theres lots of other forms i havent learned yet too... i cant say much about them since i havent broken them down and been taught yet, but they are fun to watch none the less...

Yes, I know the video and the footage. Some very good work indeed. I wish I knew who they were. One older and rather larger gent did Sub Baat very well, I wish I knew who he was.

[Faruq]

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTE0OTI0ODgw.html

2004 Celebration of Great Master Cheung Lai Chuen's Birthday Anniversary. Demos are found between the 8:00 and 35:00 minute marks.

Is there a download option anywhere on that page to download the video?

[diego]

Syn how u dl it?.

[Faruq]

I guess that's a negatory on the download option on the page...

[Syn7]

i found a youku DLer but it didnt work properly... letcha know when i know... i want that footage tho, so it'll happen eventually... im quite persistant that way...

[Faruq]

i found a youku DLer but it didnt work properly... letcha know when i know... i want that footage tho, so it'll happen eventually... im quite persistant that way...

LOL Cool!

[Iron Palm]

Hello all,

I know nothing about Bak Mei, but i'd like to learn more. Reading this thread has been very helpful.

Does anyone know anything about this guy? Namely, is this "authentic" bak mei? And/or is it any good?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFJ0CPbcA3A&feature=related

Hes got more videos on youtube, but a lot of the applications I see in them are single-punch/step applications, the efficacy of which I tend to view as questionable.

I ask because I'm going to be spending an extended period of time in france relatively soon and I was thinking of looking him up. I tracked down his website as well:

http://pakmei.free.fr/index2.php?rub=professeur

And heres a translation of the site

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://pakmei.free.fr/index2.php%3Frub%3Dprofesseur

Thanks in advance for the information

[Syn7]

his name is sifu jonathon barbary i think is how its spelled... from france... he does foshan bak mei which is different than the more common CLC branches out of HK... he's a pretty big guy, nice guy too... i would go see him if i were you... i do clc bak mei but i was impressed by his dedication to the art... he's right into it...

[Pakmei7]

Good skill in some ways, totally missing in others. Little waist, lot's of shoulder.

[diego]

sweet it's been one year since I made this thread and one year in Bak mei congrats to me lol

[Violent Designs]

So can anyone highlight the generic differences between HK and Foshan Bak Mei?

[Olaf]

He has a video explaining some of the differences

[Olaf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhJnG2AEwIY

[Violent Designs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhJnG2AEwIY

Very cool, and interesting.

Being Buk Sing and using basically the charp chui for everything I can feel a bit of kinship with these Bak Mei guys.

Hahaha.

[diego]

http://www.scribd.com/trea1701/documents

Found a bak Mei manual by Tyler Rea

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXRryoZjIKI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

An hour of Bak Mei

[Faruq]

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTE0OTI0ODgw.html

2004 Celebration of Great Master Cheung Lai Chuen's Birthday Anniversary. Demos are found between the 8:00 and 35:00 minute marks.


Did anyone ever find a source or downloader for the footage?

[diego]

Did anyone ever find a source or downloader for the footage?

I actually forgot about that demo, that's a great link:D

[diego]

http://wuyijar.blogspot.com/

Bak Mei blog

[Olaf]

Dear all,

The website of our Pak Mei club in Amsterdam (The Netherlands) is available in English now as well :)

www.pakmeikungfu.nl

Hope you like it!

[diego]

Dear all,

The website of our Pak Mei club in Amsterdam (The Netherlands) is available in English now as well :)

www.pakmeikungfu.nl

Hope you like it!

Looks nice, is there any more public footage of your Sifu online?.:)

[Olaf]

So far this is the only video footage of Sifu Jie Kon Sieuw that is online. There are quite some pictures on our Facebook page.

[diego]

So far this is the only video footage of Sifu Jie Kon Sieuw that is online. There are quite some pictures on our Facebook page.

Cool, thanks.

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ved1fVFR7O8&feature=channel_video_title

Sup Jee demo from my school

[Yum Cha]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ved1fVFR7O8&feature=channel_video_title

Sup Jee demo from my school

Nice work, are you in the vid?

[TAO YIN]

That was cool Diego.

Watching that made me think. What do you guys here train for applications, for the move, Bird Sits on Perch? That is the move that goes after the right kick, right foot comes back through, and you sit down and do a double circular palms which, they hit the ground (bad explanation, but all of that together). What throws have people here been taught for that? Any explanations? Thanks!

Tao

[diego]

Nice work, are you in the vid?yeah Im in the back watching drunk off Chinese beer for the first time. The guy in the middle Mike hasnt been in class in like a year so Im happy to have randomly found this clip..my sifu hates the martial media I still have yet to see any video of him..Mike gave me a lot of Jik Bo tips like how your eyes teeth claws and toes ging at the same moment so Im in the back on the side paying full attention to his proper Sub Jee footwork.

[diego]

Did anyone ever find a source or downloader for the footage?

http://translate.google.ca/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fv.youku.com%2Fv_show%2Fid_XMTE0OTI0 ODgw.html

Click the green Download arrow then after the new IKU page opens translate that and download the program on the right and you should be able to start downloading yuku clips.

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/user/pakmeileesheklin

Just found some new demo's from Hong Kong Kung Fu Corner with Sifu Lee Shek Lin, does any one have any more new half-hour to hour long banquet clips?.

[soulfist]

He had one of the Bak Mei spear, not often seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il4i5DB4oqs

but several of the weapons and 2-man forms I never seen before.

[diego]

He had one of the Bak Mei spear, not often seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il4i5DB4oqs

but several of the weapons and 2-man forms I never seen before.
My Sisook showed us an old private video of Chow Fook's students doing two man sets, one of them was empty hand vs spear I think. Are there any videos of empty hand vs weapons online?.

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pXJf_V-hUk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZEiLXs7iI8&feature=related

What are the main differences in these two Sup Jee's?. The first vid does a lot of single leg lifts.

[Syn7]

i like what he does right before the first drop.

[diego]

did this guy just do 9 step push and then run into the second part of sup jee?. isn't that like backwards?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i4zBwPSq90&feature=related

[diego]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8GDcOn-Uvg


Who's this, what form is being demoed?. He reminds me of my Sifu Wilkie Wu, it says he trained with Chow Fook.

[diego]

kid could fight with that staff lol The form sequence matches my schools first staff set exactly pretty much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiEFo0dQBe8

[Frost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8GDcOn-Uvg


Who's this, what form is being demoed?. He reminds me of my Sifu Wilkie Wu, it says he trained with Chow Fook.

i think its mantis108 from this forum, he trained with chow fook as well
but not sure only had a quick look

[diego]

i think its mantis108 from this forum, he trained with chow fook as well
but not sure only had a quick look

Yeah, I saw his name on the forum linked through that page:) Cool

What's the name of that form?.

[Yum Cha]

Diego, I'm guessing the name is "Single Power?"

[Lau]

Here is a short clip of our schools Pak Mei performance :
http://youtu.be/QupPaPpFsNc

Regards Lau

[Yum Cha]

Here is a short clip of our schools Pak Mei performance :
http://youtu.be/QupPaPpFsNc

Regards Lau

Dayum! You guys are almost as good as we are! :D:D:D
Great work guys. Love that pole form...really stands out in quality....ace!

[Olaf]

Thank you Yum Cha :)

[Frost]

some bakmei pole work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g06eOmOv6s&list=PLF0657280622FEE49

[Yum Cha]

Hey Frost, nice set of vids from Chan Luk San Sifu. Where is he from? Got some good stuff.

[Runlikehell]

Hey Frost, nice set of vids from Chan Luk San Sifu. Where is he from? Got some good stuff.

I think I heard he teaches in NY?

[Yum Cha]

I think I heard he teaches in NY?

The poster was "NY Dragon" and Chan Sifu's work has a lot of that loong ying flavour, partially because of his size, I reckon. I'd like to know more about him if anybody knows.

[Golden Arms]

some bakmei pole work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g06eOmOv6s&list=PLF0657280622FEE49

That looks like Lung Ying pole to me, especially the salutes at the beginning and end. Edit - Bakmei pole with Lung Ying flavor.

[Frost]

That looks like Lung Ying pole to me, especially the salutes at the beginning and end. Edit - Bakmei pole with Lung Ying flavor.

yep he is a yung ling guy mainly but its a bakmi form, similar to how we do it

[Frost]

Hey Frost, nice set of vids from Chan Luk San Sifu. Where is he from? Got some good stuff.

i believe he is from panama, also visits new york from time to time, its some very nice hakka stuff he does

http://www.youtube.com/user/skdrax?feature=watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWWy8ZKM2AI

[Runlikehell]

i believe he is from panama, also visits new york from time to time, its some very nice hakka stuff he does

http://www.youtube.com/user/skdrax?feature=watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWWy8ZKM2AI

Yeah, I was told he was half Panamian, but was unaware if he was based there or in NY.
He has some good skills, he was spoken highly of when brought in conversation late last year.

[diego]

Diego, I'm guessing the name is "Single Power?"

I thought I read the name "Mantis108":cool:

[diego]

The poster was "NY Dragon" and Chan Sifu's work has a lot of that loong ying flavour, partially because of his size, I reckon. I'd like to know more about him if anybody knows.

why do all the lung ying masters have big feet? do they have like a funky weighted low squat footwork routine or something?. Half the guys at my class are old lung ying guys Ive never trained it they just said Lung Ying is like Bak Mei, but I can see the difference in musculature BM guys are skinny-toned and stand very upright from all the floating footwork... LY guys have big dwarf feet and stocky shoulders even though the basics all looks like sub jee. the sifu's of the two styles have diff features:confused::)

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/60000/Big-Feet-on-Child--60215.jpg do they do some type of tendon work around thee knees so the soles of their feet swell up like some weird dragon foot bridge skill? lol or is it the lung ying sifus all come from the same area known for bigfoot. lame pun I know..

[Faruq]

I think I heard he teaches in NY?

Yeah, that's Dragonclaw's sifu, isn't it! I guess he only spends half the year here in the U.S. Dragonclaw says he's amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/user/nydragon7

[Yum Cha]

Panama and NY, he has some good stuff.
I wonder if my friends in the Netherlands have any info, they are about the best informed around.
When it comes to Pak Mei and Loong Ying, remember that Lam Yeu Gwai and Cheung Lai Cheun were family and they trained together in Lam Family tradition early on. Lam was big and stocky, Cheung was tall and lanky. Says a lot more than any disertation on theory.... :D:D:D

[Runlikehell]

Yeah, that's Dragonclaw's sifu, isn't it! I guess he only spends half the year here in the U.S. Dragonclaw says he's amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/user/nydragon7

I can only go on what I've heard and seen, but he sounds amazing!



Panama and NY, he has some good stuff.
I wonder if my friends in the Netherlands have any info, they are about the best informed around.
When it comes to Pak Mei and Loong Ying, remember that Lam Yeu Gwai and Cheung Lai Cheun were family and they trained together in Lam Family tradition early on. Lam was big and stocky, Cheung was tall and lanky. Says a lot more than any disertation on theory.... :D:D:D

While dissertation and theories are interesting, they can't compare to practical, real experience IMO.
I'm glad to see the Pak Mei and Lung Ying connections continuing, whether they be via a Sifu who has experience in both arts, or one group exchanging with another. Even positive online discussion is a step in the right direction. :)

[TenTigers]

Chen Luk-San is indeed Dragonclaw's Sifu. He can usually be found on Sunday mornings in Columbus Park playing push hands. He is very approachable, jovial, and playful, but try to take a cheap shot and he'll deck you.:D

[charp choi]

I really have to ask but is this Bak Mei??:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0rm4LExEQg

because if it is can anyone explain why it looks NOTHING like it?

[Yum Cha]

I really have to ask but is this Bak Mei??:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0rm4LExEQg

because if it is can anyone explain why it looks NOTHING like it?

That's not the same guy, surely. The video speaks for itself.

[TAO YIN]

I am pretty sure that is Green Dragon Studio's Bak Mei forms from their videos.

[GeneChing]

Luv those vintage pix. Ahhh, the seventies. :D


Tenants from Ming Sun’s Past: the Bak Mei Kung Fu Association (http://friendsof439.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/tenants-from-ming-suns-past-the-bak-mei-kung-fu-association/)
Posted on January 21, 2014 by 439powell

http://friendsof439.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/8507528516_47b08ff563_c.jpg?w=700&h=
http://friendsof439.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/9456094128_d74f11a65d_c2.jpg?w=1000&h=
http://friendsof439.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/9456088624_af6aa710d0_c.jpg?w=1000&h=
http://friendsof439.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/8505083267_2a0c10b5ea_c.jpg?w=1000&h=
http://friendsof439.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/9453307635_4cea8851d8_c.jpg?w=1000&h=
http://friendsof439.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/9456088974_781101619f_c.jpg?w=1000&h=

From Fred Herzog’s fortuitous shot of a baby blue Ming Sun building, here are some fabulous photos of the Bak Mei Kung Fu Association who were the tenants in the Ming Sun Building/439 Powell in the early 1970s. The photos include a number of interior and exterior photos of 437/439 Powell.The Association is still in Vancouver’s Chinatown AND on the web. For more information on the Bak Mei Kung Fu Association in 2014, please click here: http://www.bakmei.ca/

For a look at the full set of photos and captions, they can be found here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikechu/sets/72157634947252066/).

Special thanks to Michael Chu and Michael Wong from the Bak Mei Kung Fu Association for sharing these wonderful historic photos!

[Syn7]

Looks pretty nice there. Now that area is brutal. It's all rock and hoes. Cool to see Sifu as a kid. Thanx for that.

[diego]

Good point, make it 15....:D


lol im almost done ying jow...should be 5 more years before I learn 9 step lol.

when I started sifu had one student who did tkd for 20 years as a youth so age 26 he was 12 years into bak mei still like 4 forms away from the last form and I dont ask out of respect but he probably still has 1 or 2 forms left to learn 8 years later lol.

its one thing to learn jik bo from a 30 year old who trained 10 years and from a 70 year old who trained 50 years.

Its good to spend 5 years on sub jee, sam mor kuen as your jik bo will look different age 60 than when it did when you started training in high school.

[diego]

why do all the lung ying masters have big feet? do they have like a funky weighted low squat footwork routine or something?. Half the guys at my class are old lung ying guys Ive never trained it they just said Lung Ying is like Bak Mei, but I can see the difference in musculature BM guys are skinny-toned and stand very upright from all the floating footwork... LY guys have big dwarf feet and stocky shoulders even though the basics all looks like sub jee. the sifu's of the two styles have diff features:confused::)

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/60000/Big-Feet-on-Child--60215.jpg do they do some type of tendon work around thee knees so the soles of their feet swell up like some weird dragon foot bridge skill? lol or is it the lung ying sifus all come from the same area known for bigfoot. lame pun I know..


lol one of our Lung Ying guys is a Bak Mei Sifu now and he is huge but he bodybuilds and is tall, my sifu is not that tall but I notice his fist is huge, lol like his neck is thick but he looks like an Engineer like what he went to school for I think. I think all the pulling moves with tiger claw grip flexing is similar to doing dead lifts like your neck and hand bones become thicker from the pulling and rotating forces...adding floating and sinking to the bak mei staff form adds to this thickness of grip like heavy reps of lightweight dead lifts, arm curls and bent over rows.

[Firehawk4]

Tell us more about your Bak Mei as it is always interesting to here about it from people who actualy study it ?

[diego]

Tell us more about your Bak Mei as it is always interesting to here about it from people who actually study it ?

:D not much to say lol Im just sad more martial artists dont have access to it looking at the quality of demo`s online from various styles.. it`s all pretty well cataloged online if you know what you are looking for...but Bak Mei is fast you cant see everything on video to learn at all, lol. Im half way through the system I see a hand in an advanced form thinking I know what it is and I don`t or the move will look unimportant and it turns out its a main defense against Muay Thai clinch grab when I thought it was just like a basic palm or whatever.

Also My Sifu`s Jik Bo looked the same at age 60 as it does age 70. I`m 8 years in but when you learn Bak Mei like every three years your Jik Bo changes like each new form adds a new control of your basic fighting technique. Sub Jee opens up using Jik Bo with standard Shaolin fighting technique, Sam Mor Kuen makes your Jik Bo Faster, the staff makes it feel stronger...that`s the first three years I took a year off due to other commitments but now with Ying Jow my Jik bo feels Heavy like it would be easy to punch through dry walls with jabs wheras with Sam Mor kuen its like I`d hit the wall with a spear point now I feel heavy fist like throw a bag of cement at the wall lol. I think 9 step push makes your Jik Bo more full body like your lower body comes into play but that takes a good 10 years if you have to learn weapons and such, plus they do Lion Dance.

Thats my interpretation coming from another style in my 20s, it would have been interesting to train it since birth.

[jmd161]

Hey Diego..

I'm interested in hearing more about your Bak Mei training. I'm actually about to start training in Bak Mei myself. I'm a big guy and 51 yrs old... Wanted something a bit different from the Hak Fu Mun training now that I've recovered from the sudden passing of my sifu. I want to learn the Southern Mantis this sifu teaches... But he doesn't teach that out the gate. So my choices are Wing Chun, Lung ying, and Bak Mei.

Anything you can share would be appreciated.

Jeff😉

[diego]

Hey Diego..

I'm interested in hearing more about your Bak Mei training. I'm actually about to start training in Bak Mei myself. I'm a big guy and 51 yrs old... Wanted something a bit different from the Hak Fu Mun training now that I've recovered from the sudden passing of my sifu. I want to learn the Southern Mantis this sifu teaches... But he doesn't teach that out the gate. So my choices are Wing Chun, Lung ying, and Bak Mei.

Anything you can share would be appreciated.

Jeff��

I think almost every city has a Wing Chun school so if you can train Bak Mei you should do that just for how rare it is, plus it has Lung Ying techniques so it`s pretty normal for Sifu from both styles to be aware of the other. At my school we have a Wing Chun and Hung Gar Sifu in his 30`s learning Bak Mei as a hobby from my 70 year old Sifu. Like he said he trains Bak Mei for fun when he is not teaching Wing Chun and Hung Gar all week.

I guess it really matters about your ambition and skill level like Bak Mei starts off fast what I gather from Wing Chun DVDs lol they spend a year doing Sil Lim Tao slow...which is great for building your wrist and core rotating strength leading up to Staff and Butterfly swords footwork, but if you are more into like kickboxing, Bak Mei footwork may be a better work out.

But then there is the issue of the quality of school like you may have an Olympic boxer teaching Wing Chun and a Pokeman fan teaching some sort of Wu Shu Ballet Bak Mei lol so it hard to give advice. Vancouver has an old Hong Kong link so I lucked out finding my school but if I lived in Saskatoon with no Wifi I may just be training Judo at a community college watching martial arts of the world on Youtube.

It depends on your ambition do you want style and history..go learn from the university martial arts club with junior students who can teach you the basic forms so then you can travel for better teachers, or do you want to fight more then go to the school that spars for competition or has students with security experience like bar bouncers and such.

I don`t know much about Hak Fu Mun but most of the Bak Mei hands have a tiger claw backing up a strike like grab and punch or guard and chop, etc. The pulling is almost more important than the punching in the beginning like Karate pulls back fast and punches hard, Bak Mei pulls back hard and strikes fast...opens up core muscles and the pulling moves the enemy lol off balance as you control and strike with two hands.

[Runlikehell]

Hey Diego..

I'm interested in hearing more about your Bak Mei training. I'm actually about to start training in Bak Mei myself. I'm a big guy and 51 yrs old... Wanted something a bit different from the Hak Fu Mun training now that I've recovered from the sudden passing of my sifu. I want to learn the Southern Mantis this sifu teaches... But he doesn't teach that out the gate. So my choices are Wing Chun, Lung ying, and Bak Mei.

Anything you can share would be appreciated.

Jeff😉

Hey Jeff,
To add to Diego's excellent points, if you can/are willing to learn both systems, you'll find that Bak Mei and Lung Ying complement each other well.

Additionally, I'd like to offer my belated condolences on the passing of your Sifu.

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIgUE6g2wb0

Bak Mei (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?56593-Bak-mei) @ KUNG FU TAI CHI 25TH ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69762-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL-May-19-21-2017-San-Jose-CA)

[diego]

lol, I`m having a headache trying to make a playlist of all the forms having to go to translate then look up lineage, etc.

I figure it will be easier to index everything here.



FORMS
HAND FORMS

CHINESE
​
​直步
石師 / 十字拳
三門八卦​
鷹爪黏橋
七十二地煞
四門八卦
九步推
虎步摩橋
​十八摩橋
五形拳
猛虎出林
​
TRANSLITERATION
​
Jik Bo
Sek Si / Sup Gee Kuen
Sam Mun Baat Gua
Ying Jow Lim Kiu
72 Day Saat
Say Mun Baat Gua
Gow Bo Tui
Fu Bo Mor Kiu
Sup Baat Mor Kiu
Ng Ying Kuen
Mang Fu Chut Lam
​
ENGLISH TRANSLATION
​
Straight Step
Master Shek's / Cross Fist
Three Doors Bagua
Eagle Claw Sticky Bridge
72 Earthly Spirits
Four Doors Bagua
Nine Step Push
Tiger Step Feeling Bridge
18 Forms Feeling Bridge
Five Shapes
Ferocious Tiger Exits Forest

Drumming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stniebXLXLQ

​直步 Jik Bo Straight Step:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bny3UYoTklc


石師 / 十字拳 Sek Si / Sup Gee Kuen Master Shek's / Cross Fist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZe9onvFwWo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rWIEDJbaKQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLe8npEts9I


三門八卦​ Sam Mun Baat Gua Three Doors Bagua:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0_-bjE69ZA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_lAwK4x41Y


鷹爪黏橋 Ying Jow Lim Kiu Eagle Claw Sticky Bridge:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZEiLXs7iI8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvpSV3LKF9E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqeHYOx4anI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6QiXxM5k9s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuBRArOLQ54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MztEcoNESbA


七十二地煞 72 Day Saat 72 Earthly Spirits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFiN-ccSXn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoAaFZvZQcg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se2xQeUwab8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se2xQeUwab8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJziMLjhb3k


四門八卦 Say Mun Baat Gua Four Doors Bagua:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGr35kPHe-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svsCAlHuI-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-J2cnDndNY

九步推 Gow Bo Tui Nine Step Push:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BnGJHGbo_8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9YjhBlY8g8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RLnHgwiXDc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdvQUEMvjMU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDDKz1NfDYA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq6Zo7pESCE


虎步摩橋 Fu Bo Mor Kiu Tiger Step Feeling Bridge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJelMfE4peA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Ov0843zKE



​十八摩橋 Sup Baat Mor Kiu 18 Forms Feeling Bridge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWS3GTS5G-g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CynlcboSc10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6dF7Ofl-TY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8QJsngot88


五形拳 Ng Ying Kuen Five Shapes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7381N4E-ik

猛虎出林 Mang Fu Chut Lam Ferocious Tiger Exits Forest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duvKZjsj_s0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ6ixvcHR9E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64DeGFzGcHo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8PwcZ1U3pU

https://www.facebook.com/23261587251/videos/10152630402937252/

Weapons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js56eZHYD3I

Staff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly9GJ7H05m0

Spear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh1RxUa34mQ

Staff vs Spear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyA0_qmRu-Y

Double Broadswords:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebEjaoYE0hw


Double Swords vs Staff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DKSIy3GiaU

Spear vs Sword & Shield:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHq45UM1EOo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6_Zu678BXM

Hoe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mHeaPgYkUs

Trident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJLvU0jQAoE

Tonfa:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekYe8ilFyA

PakMei 8 Fundamental Techniques:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6MXZM7wxHs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atcfR1Yf5IU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRTWjMqJE4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiX9qbBRuM8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jrpU27-chQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BswLktnRlmU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc5EqYfFpa0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJWOaC6lXc8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUjxkTzUye8

Documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGW93TJjuz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm_X-OTM6eE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCctGxotrkE



Lung Ying Forms & Applications:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M95IezW5cuE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6El7YNQK88

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE7fWM_jiPs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKINBPJF_r4

[diego]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgajETG4BQI



Does anyone have the details for this Pai Mei Quan VCD?.

It looks like a mix of 9 Step Push and Ying Jow. Are there more VCD Bak Mei series out there?.

[GeneChing]

18 Stripping Bridges. READ 18 Mo Kiu: Refining the Martial Methodology of Pak Mei Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1474) by Williy Pang

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/upload/9720_4NY-Pak-Mei.jpg