Form Correction

[olkat314]

Just wanted to ask what your input on this is:

on bung bo: in beginning, legs are together, then immediately, left leg goes 180 degrees and steps directly forward, pull right leg forward to form tiger stance, and make a parry and punch.

on gung lik: in beginning, feet together, then hands up (fists), then horse and fists near ears, then punch down near the groin. then, **** the right hand, block with left and simultaneously punch to the right. Now, the question is, does the left hand punch out too after that?

I just saw two different versions of these beginnings, both from seven star, both from Chiu Chi Man lineage. I'm just wondering why that is.

Please enlighten.

Tak

[LawClansman]

Tak,
Stick around and you'll see more variations yet. This is not pacular to the Chiu Ch Man branch but occurs in many styles mantis or otherwise. Regardless of the quality of instruction, variations creep in due to many reasons. Obviously there is the fact that some people will just change things purposely for whatever reasons. Then there are students that were not that dedicated when training and just missed out on some details or misremember them.

Then there is the fact that that everyone dosen't learn the same. Or that many sifu teach different people differently (closed door etc) which leads to many interesting "debates" among students later on.

The reasons go on and on but the most important thing is that the essence of the form is kept and that one form is not done in the name of another. (for example mantis comming out of cave but calling it bung bo)

In the case of Gung Lek which is not a mantis form but a jing mo form, some mantis stylists perform the set closer to the original jing mo version. Others perform the set in accord with the mantisized (by Law Gwong Yuk)version.



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Sifu Carl

[Gargoyle again]

Hmm. The differences from how one school to another interpret and do a form a very interesting to me. You get very good insights you wouldn't normally have seen.

In my school, we do the opening to Bung Bo as follows:

Start feet together...
Drop hard to a right cat (tiger stance) right straight punch, left parry, all simultaneous.
Position-wise, I end up in exactly the same spot on the floor as start position. It sounds like you are traveling forward as you do the first move? Curious.

How does your form proceed from there?

[olkat314]

Seeing how I don't know all of the first form (I asked the my previous question because it seemed like my Sifu and his advanced disciple who has his own school have different forms), let me tell you what little I know.

1. Instead of going straight forward, the left leg faces 45 degrees and tiger stance, and parries and punches.
2. Drop back to tiger, Mantis catches Cicada
3. Hop step, block and then heel of hand attacks, end up in left hill climbing
4. forward punch, right hill climbing
5. Big hop forward, single leg and punch
6. Drop down, elbow, then grab hand and bong (chop)
7. Immediately use right foot to execute bumping (???) kick and swing hands to hit temple
8. drop to horse, with two hands forward (called lap sau)
9. Grab with left hand (left hill climbing) then immediatly chop
10. Hook grapple pluck
11. Catch, bring down hard, then tiger and hit to face
12. Heel of hand forward, then right punch forward
13. lap sau again
14. catch hand, strike to kidney
15. drop to horse, block with left fist
16. hook with left, single leg
17. raise that hook up, then immediately make 180 turn into horse and hammer with right fist to temple
18. mantis hook with right hand, then tag
19. lean into left hill climbing, with right hand extending palm out

That's all I know...hope it helps.

Tak

[Gargoyle again]

Yep. The same form, but different /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ours varies as follows:
1-4: Same
5:Bounce back off of the preceding punch to one-leg (rt leg chambered), right hand grab/pull, left knife hand forward
6: Same
7: Same? Rt leg stop-kicks behind left leg, rt grab/pull, left bil jee strike
8-19: Same, but with slightly different strikes and blocks, plus a couple extra elbow strikes thrown in.

This is a fun form, still one of my favorites, you'll love it. Enjoy /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Only about 30 more moves left /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Young Mantis]

Gargoyle,

I am not sure about your description. The transistion from 4 to 5, you said you bounce off the preceding punch. Does that mean when you go from the right hill climbing stance you jump backwards or shift backwards into the leg hanging stance?

Also, in the first move, you said you drop hard into the right cat stance. So you are in the same place but also turned 180 degrees?

[This message has been edited by Young Mantis (edited 05-05-2000).]

[Gargoyle again]

Umm, let's see if I can describe a little clearer what I'm doing here (and without the people in the office looking at me too strangely /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

First move is in the same position but rotates 45 degrees from north to northwest.

On move 4, it ends in a rt bow & arrow (aka hill climbing) stance with a rt straight punch. The rt hand that just punched grabs and pulls back into a high chamber to the right of my head, while rising up on the left leg to a one-leg stance, and the left hand either straight punches or knife hands to the face. One application of this is that you are pulling your opponent toward you into your rising rt knee while striking with the left hand.

You aren't exactly jumping or shifting backwards, but rising backward up on your left leg from the preceding right bow & arrow stance. The left foot doesn't shift position at all.