seeing patterns

[SanHeChuan]

It’s interesting because there is some truth in some Hardwork108 statements. Like for example that when the president changes the puppet masters remain. It is true that all the same lobbing bodies, with their own agenda’s remain to put pressure on the political process to see things their way, remain with changing of the president. So there is some truth there, just not the truth he is stating.

Where he gets off track is when he imagines connections between disparate groups, to say that they are working in concert.

Stare at a ceiling tile long enough and you will see a face, maybe a rabbit. Why? Because our minds are designed to recognize complex patterns, and when there is no pattern in the chaos of say the random holes in ceiling tiles, our minds will selectively choose to focus on the holes that make a pattern, even though those holes are no different than any others.

What proof do you have that all secret societies are working together, as you say. By looking at the pattern of world events? Then your conclusion that there is one organization that controls everything is merely spurious conjecture, a speculation. You are seeing a pattern in events, and imagining a source of that pattern.

Conspiracy theories are like religion in that way. Instead of believing that events happen according to the wills of millions and sometimes hundred of different people and groups with their own agendas that creates the controlled chaos of modern society. They believe in one director of human events. Religions call this director god and attribute all the good in the world to him. Conspiracy theorists call this director a secret society and attribute all the bad in the world to them.

Yes bad things happen, and sometimes conspiracies to occur, but to say that those conspiracies are not don’t at the will of those invested in them at the time, but at the behest of a 5,000 year old evil secret family oligarchy that controls all the worlds political events if such a leap of logic that it’s no wonder no one will believe you.

[Dragonzbane76]

It’s interesting because there is some truth in some Hardwork108 statements.


being 'looney' does make one interesting. I watched a guy eat his own sh!t once when i worked in corrections. It's like a train wreck coming you really can't turn away. same applies with above.

[Hardwork108]

It’s interesting because there is some truth in some Hardwork108 statements. Like for example that when the president changes the puppet masters remain.

It is those same puppet masters who are said to be members of secret societies such as the Freemasons and quite often the presidents of a given country are also members of the same societies.

Is it me or does everyone turn a blind eye to the fact that leaders and high level politicians can be members of secret societies to which they can take oaths of loyalty above any thing including other institutions? And all of this in supposedly "free" and "Democratic" countries???



It is true that all the same lobbing bodies, with their own agenda’s remain to put pressure on the political process to see things their way, remain with changing of the president. So there is some truth there,
To see more of the truth it will be advisable to see who those lobbyists work for. That is, the corporations and the major SHAREHOLDERS of those corporations.


just not the truth he is stating.
I have done a lot of research and have traveled a lot - with my eyes open!

But I don't claim to be god. However, IMHO, once one thinks outside of the box then it becomes easier to connect the dots.


Where he gets off track is when he imagines connections between disparate groups, to say that they are working in concert.

Stare at a ceiling tile long enough and you will see a face, maybe a rabbit. Why? Because our minds are designed to recognize complex patterns, and when there is no pattern in the chaos of say the random holes in ceiling tiles, our minds will selectively choose to focus on the holes that make a pattern, even though those holes are no different than any others.

What proof do you have that all secret societies are working together, as you say. By looking at the pattern of world events? Then your conclusion that there is one organization that controls everything is merely spurious conjecture, a speculation. You are seeing a pattern in events, and imagining a source of that pattern.

I would not say that it is one organization that control everything. I would say that it is various families (blood lines) who control almost everything and they use the secret society networks because such networks facilitate their covert influence.


Conspiracy theories are like religion in that way. Instead of believing that events happen according to the wills of millions and sometimes hundred of different people and groups with their own agendas that creates the controlled chaos of modern society. They believe in one director of human events. Religions call this director god and attribute all the good in the world to him. Conspiracy theorists call this director a secret society and attribute all the bad in the world to them.

I don't see myself as a "conspiracy theorist". That term was probably invented by crooked politicians to use merely as a label to discredit anyone who questioned their corruption or official versions of planned assassinations or cross the border de-stablization of sovereign states, among other things.

Conspiracy Theorist is a term that is thrown around to hide the real truth, just like calling anyone you see as a threat, an Anti Semetic, which in today's world is like a political death sentence, and so it should be. However, lots of times this type of attacks on one' s character have no foundations further than just destroying their credibility.


Yes bad things happen, and sometimes conspiracies to occur, but to say that those conspiracies are not don’t at the will of those invested in them at the time, but at the behest of a 5,000 year old evil secret family oligarchy that controls all the worlds political events if such a leap of logic that it’s no wonder no one will believe you.

It is difficult not to go back thousands of years when Freemasonery does exactly that. It is a society whose roots go back a long time. It is a secret society with some very disturbing ceremonies. They use a lot of symbolisms as well. If you just look around Washingtion DC then you will see their symbols every where. These include the Obelisk, the Dome of the houses of Congress, the sun in circle symbols, the goddess symbols and even some of the street designs.

You can also see the Obelisk in the "Catholic" Vatican. An interesting location to place a PAGAN (Egyptian and now a Masonic) symbol, wouldn't you say?

Paris has its own Obelisk from Luxor, which is located at the Place de la Concorde. Then there is the other famous Obelisk, the Eiffel Tower and Dome (the Pantheon) and even the Sun in Circle symbol around the Arc De Triumph. Of course, lets not forget the glass pyramid placed next to the Louvre museum by the late Freemason French President Mitterand.

London has its own Obelisk too. There is Cleopatra's Needle and there is the Big Ben which is a not so well disguised, Obelisk and is located in Parliament Square in the seat of power of the British Empire, shall we say. Saint Paul's Cathedral is the Dome that incidentally is the model used for the Domes in Washington and Paris.

Staying in the US. The Statue of Liberty itself is a Masonic symbol. Where else do you see the LADY with the TORCH (Eternal Flame)? Oh yes, the symbol for Columbia Pictures! The Eternal Torch also appears on President Kennedy's grave and there is an Obelisk placed in Dealey Plaza, where he was assassinated. Is somebody trying to tell us something? LOL

Then there are the Sun symbols. There is the sun on the cross symbol which appears on the logo of the CIA and NATO.

The RISING SUN symbol (being born again as Tammuz or Horus), can be seen above the door of 10 Downing Street (the UK Prime Minister's home), in the NBC Logo; on George Washington's Sun chair and of course on the Headquarters of the 33rd Degree Scottish Rite of Freemasonry!!!!

The NATO logo itself has masonic symbolism. It is in masonic blue, surrounded by the branches (another masonic symbol). It is divided into 33 sections in line with the degrees of the Scottish rite of Freemasons.

Yes, this is all a coincidence nothing to worry about...LOL

There is more....

The famous Pyramid with the (all seeing) Eye symbol on the dollar bill. You can see that same pyramid depicted on the logo of the British internal intelligence, MI5!!!!

You can see it on the logo of the Information Awareness Office of US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). Also, have a look at the AOL logo.

You can see the All Seeing Eye on the CBS logo. CBS stands for Columbia Broadcasting System. Remember the logo for their movie division?

Then there is the symbol of "fasces" depicted as a bundle of roads tied together with an axe head. This symbolizes individuality tied together or destroyed, and ruled by a dictatorship - the axe head. Fasces is the word that gave birth to "Fascist". This symbol of "Fasces" was used by the Roman emperors and more recently by Hitler's Nazis. You can see this symbol on the LIncoln Memorial; the "E PLURIBUS UNUM" symbol that I believe relates to "liberty" in the US; on the KNights of Colombus (controlled by the Roman Catholic Church) Logo.

It seems that some secret societies have established themselves within the fabric of our societies, yet the man in the street is unaware of these forces that effect every aspect of his life. He may once in a while wonder why nothing changes; why politicians seem to always lie; why the world is such an unstable and violent place; why there is fear all over the place, but then he puts up his hands and convinces himself that this how the real world is.......and then he continues his walk, "blind" as a bat"........

If you ae really interested, then find the symbolism these societies use to make their presence felt to their initiates. If you do, then things will become clearer to you.

[Hardwork108]

being 'looney' does make one interesting. I watched a guy eat his own sh!t once when i worked in corrections. It's like a train wreck coming you really can't turn away. same applies with above.

You should really find a constructive hobby.........Try practicing authentic kung fu. It will make you fit and strong, and it will clear your mind, which means that you wont find people eating their shiit such an entertaining endeavor......

[Dragonzbane76]

You should really find a constructive hobby.........Try practicing authentic kung fu. It will make you fit and strong, and it will clear your mind, which means that you wont find people eating their shiit such an entertaining endeavor......

what part of the word job do you not understand? you know something you've probably never had, so i guess you wouldn't know what it is.
It was a death watch (suicide) watch. Guy was a nut job, probably your cousin or something.

[Drake]

You should really find a constructive hobby.........Try practicing authentic kung fu. It will make you fit and strong, and it will clear your mind, which means that you wont find people eating their shiit such an entertaining endeavor......

This coming from the guy who writes entire essays chock full of madness. Between that and your LARPing, I can't see how you find time to do anything, much less train.

[Hardwork108]

This coming from the guy who writes entire essays chock full of madness. Between that and your LARPing, I can't see how you find time to do anything, much less train.

So now you are saying that Obelisks are not Masonic symbols but are used by a new fast food chain perhaps? LOL

You are trying so hard to blindly "debunk" some of the facts put forward by myself in a conversation that does not even concern you, that you end up attracting a lot of attention to what I say here. What are you so afraid of? LOL

That is not how Military Intelligence officers should behave and dare I say, you are shooting yourself in the foot...LOL

And while you try extermely hard to spread disinformation you go on to tell everyone that you are a Military Intelligence officer....:eek::confused:

You could not invent this stuff!

Who trains you guys, anyway? LOL


By the way, here is a question for you, who owns the Federal Reserve?

[Drake]

Yep... I am. I don't work for the FBI, CIA, or NSA, so you are truly confused when you think I have some "agenda". While you think I'm out hiding secret symbols in everyday things, I'm actually writing a red book for a gunnery exercise. When you think I'm out to "hide" 9/11 facts, I am prepping a SITTEMP. Sooooo ignorant! :)

[Hardwork108]

Yep... I am. I don't work for the FBI, CIA, or NSA, so you are truly confused when you think I have some "agenda". While you think I'm out hiding secret symbols in everyday things, I'm actually writing a red book for a gunnery exercise. When you think I'm out to "hide" 9/11 facts, I am prepping a SITTEMP. Sooooo ignorant! :)

My opinion of you is based on your posts in this forum and nothing else. I find it very humorous that you blindly chase me all over the place and do your best to discredit what I say regarding US government corruption, every chance you get, even when I am not interacting with you.

By the way, what a coincidence as I am attempting to write my first book.:)

[SanHeChuan]

To see more of the truth it will be advisable to see who those lobbyists work for. That is, the corporations and the major SHAREHOLDERS of those corporations.

We'll if you have proof of this name some names and show me the connections. What are the names of the people the lobbyist work for?


IMHO, once one thinks outside of the box then it becomes easier to connect the dots.

Yes when one looks at randomness with unfocused eyes patterns do emerge, but like my example earlier that doesn't mean they are intended patterns, just a patch of randomness you mind filtered to make recognizable.


It is difficult not to go back thousands of years when Freemasonery does exactly that. It is a society whose roots go back a long time. It is a secret society with some very disturbing ceremonies. They use a lot of symbolisms as well. If you just look around Washingtion DC then you will see their symbols every where. These include the Obelisk, the Dome of the houses of Congress, the sun in circle symbols, the goddess symbols and even some of the street designs.

Mason ceremonies are only disturbing because they are unfamiliar and not understood. They are morality tales played out by masons, intended to teach lessons and make you think. Re-enacting a murder may be disturbing, but it's only play acting intended to help you understand the sacrifice made by Hiram in not giving up his secrets.

Symbols of past cultures are adopted by future ones that is not a smoking gun for conspiracy. You still use the kung fu salute but you have no intention of over throwing the Manchu's nor are you a member of the triads.

[Hardwork108]

what part of the word job do you not understand? you know something you've probably never had, so i guess you wouldn't know what it is.
It was a death watch (suicide) watch. Guy was a nut job, probably your cousin or something.

Hey, no joke here, but if he was my cousin, it would you who would be eating his shiit...

[Hardwork108]

We'll if you have proof of this name some names and show me the connections. What are the names of the people the lobbyist work for?
I would say that first we look at the interests that the lobbyists work for and then we connect those interests to names that own those interests. So if you are looking at banking interests then the finger would sooner or later point to the Rockefeller and by extension the Rothchilds. Of course, these families have their hands in other "pies" as well, such as the Petroleum cartels and so on, where the Bush family also have some "assets".....

Talking of banking, don't you wonder why so many "elected" politicians are so silent about the fact that the Federal Reserve is a private bank, even though even some of the "official" media have partially validated this fact? Don't you wonder why the FD prints dollars and then lends it to the US government for INTEREST, that is paid by the US taxpayers through ILLEGAL income taxes? This when the US Constitution ALLOWS the US government to print its own money and sees a person's personal labor as his own private property, hence untaxable!

Don't you wonder who the FD's shareholders are? Do you realize that he who controls the economy/money flow of a country ends up controlling that country?

And again, don't you wonder why, no matter who happens to be president, there is an unusual silence about this subject matter? IF you do and you are really interested then watch the documentary link at the bottom of my page - my signature- called America - Freedom to Fascism. And not it was not made by a tin hat wearing Conspiracy "Theorist". It was made by the late Holywood producer/director Aaron Russo.



Yes when one looks at randomness with unfocused eyes patterns do emerge, but like my example earlier that doesn't mean they are intended patterns, just a patch of randomness you mind filtered to make recognizable.

Well, that is when our given experiences, intellect and their resultant perceptions come in. Otherwise, you can accuse any researcher of just doing that, if they happen to connect the dots to an actual conspiracy.


Mason ceremonies are only disturbing because they are unfamiliar and not understood. They are morality tales played out by masons, intended to teach lessons and make you think. Re-enacting a murder may be disturbing, but it's only play acting intended to help you understand the sacrifice made by Hiram in not giving up his secrets.

I hear that in their higher levels, these ceremonies are even more disturbing. Just take into account some of the stuff that goes on in the Bohemian Grove, where many high level politicians and other distinguished members of business and entertaiment participate. I hope that you don't think that wearing long robes and going around pretending (I hope) to sacrifice people in weird ceremonies, should be a normal part of our political leaders' activities!

While we are at it then why not bring in the Skull and Bones Society of Yale University to which George Bush Senior and his son Boy George also belonged to? What goes? Wasn't John Kerry supposed to belong to this thing as well?


Symbols of past cultures are adopted by future ones that is not a smoking gun for conspiracy. You still use the kung fu salute but you have no intention of over throwing the Manchu's nor are you a member of the triads.

There are many symbols of past cultures in any society, however, we are talking about secret society symbols as relating to our most powerful institutions. And of course, no secret society member is going to come out and give away a given hidden agenda. They all have their cover stories, just like the other and more official secret societies we call, intelligence agencies. What does the CIA do? They gather information, fo course. In reality, they have been involved in destablizing DEMOCRATIC governments, among others; instigating wars; drugs trafficking; arms trafficking; assassinations of foreign leaders and politician, and some say even internal assassinations and so on..... See what I am getting at?

Even looking at a bank. At the higher level of banking they want to get people under debt so that they can make a killing through charging interest. If the client is unable to pay the interest then the bank can take over his house, car, business etc. That is profit, real wealth, as opposed to numbers that are typed on a computer screen to CREATE the loan (money) in the first place.

Now you go and ask your local bank cashier if he or she sees the banking business in such a way? They will probably say no and tell you about how the banks are there to take care of your money and give you financial advice - ie. the cover story!

By the way, banks are allowed to create money out of thin air by being allowed to lend more money then they have in their vaults..I believe for every 100 dollars, they can lend out a 1000. Interesting, no? They can lend you money that they don't have but you will need to pay interest on it and if you are not able to pay then they will come and take your REAl assets, like your house or business, in return for their created money. Very interesting.....

I hope that you find time to watch the documentary I recommeded and if you have time watch the Fall of the Republic. Then look around you and make up your mind for yourself and even research more, if you so wish.

[Dragonzbane76]

Hey, no joke here, but if he was my cousin, it would you who would be eating his shiit...

so your family has a criminal history then? doesn't suprise me. And if it was your cousin he was behind bars and I doubt he would have gotten through the taser and asp and riot shields.

[Hardwork108]

so your family has a criminal history then? doesn't suprise me. And if it was your cousin he was behind bars and I doubt he would have gotten through the taser and asp and riot shields.

Believe me he would have gotten through and he would feed your taser to you the "reverse" way, if you know what I mean.;)

Hey, don't blame me for my cousin's choice path. The mob here pay good money to people of his "talents". :D

[SnowDog]

Symbols of past cultures are adopted by future ones that is not a smoking gun for conspiracy. You still use the kung fu salute but you have no intention of over throwing the Manchu's nor are you a member of the triads.

Oh Man!!!! Now you ruined my weekend. I was going to do the Kung Fu salute then over throw the Manchus and join a Triad. :mad: Crap, guess I'll just sit home and drink beer now.

[SnowDog]

I would say that first we look at the interests that the lobbyists work for and then we connect those interests to names that own those interests. So if you are looking at banking interests then the finger would sooner or later point to the Rockefeller and by extension the Rothchilds. Of course, these families have their hands in other "pies" as well, such as the Petroleum cartels and so on, where the Bush family also have some "assets".....

Talking of banking, don't you wonder why so many "elected" politicians are so silent about the fact that the Federal Reserve is a private bank, even though even some of the "official" media have partially validated this fact? Don't you wonder why the FD prints dollars and then lends it to the US government for INTEREST, that is paid by the US taxpayers through ILLEGAL income taxes? This when the US Constitution ALLOWS the US government to print its own money and sees a person's personal labor as his own private property, hence untaxable!

Don't you wonder who the FD's shareholders are? Do you realize that he who controls the economy/money flow of a country ends up controlling that country?



And again, don't you wonder why, no matter who happens to be president, there is an unusual silence about this subject matter? IF you do and you are really interested then watch the documentary link at the bottom of my page - my signature- called America - Freedom to Fascism. And not it was not made by a tin hat wearing Conspiracy "Theorist". It was made by the late Holywood producer/director Aaron Russo.




Well, that is when our given experiences, intellect and their resultant perceptions come in. Otherwise, you can accuse any researcher of just doing that, if they happen to connect the dots to an actual conspiracy.



I hear that in their higher levels, these ceremonies are even more disturbing. Just take into account some of the stuff that goes on in the Bohemian Grove, where many high level politicians and other distinguished members of business and entertaiment participate. I hope that you don't think that wearing long robes and going around pretending (I hope) to sacrifice people in weird ceremonies, should be a normal part of our political leaders' activities!

While we are at it then why not bring in the Skull and Bones Society of Yale University to which George Bush Senior and his son Boy George also belonged to? What goes? Wasn't John Kerry supposed to belong to this thing as well?



There are many symbols of past cultures in any society, however, we are talking about secret society symbols as relating to our most powerful institutions. And of course, no secret society member is going to come out and give away a given hidden agenda. They all have their cover stories, just like the other and more official secret societies we call, intelligence agencies. What does the CIA do? They gather information, fo course. In reality, they have been involved in destablizing DEMOCRATIC governments, among others; instigating wars; drugs trafficking; arms trafficking; assassinations of foreign leaders and politician, and some say even internal assassinations and so on..... See what I am getting at?

Even looking at a bank. At the higher level of banking they want to get people under debt so that they can make a killing through charging interest. If the client is unable to pay the interest then the bank can take over his house, car, business etc. That is profit, real wealth, as opposed to numbers that are typed on a computer screen to CREATE the loan (money) in the first place.

Now you go and ask your local bank cashier if he or she sees the banking business in such a way? They will probably say no and tell you about how the banks are there to take care of your money and give you financial advice - ie. the cover story!

By the way, banks are allowed to create money out of thin air by being allowed to lend more money then they have in their vaults..I believe for every 100 dollars, they can lend out a 1000. Interesting, no? They can lend you money that they don't have but you will need to pay interest on it and if you are not able to pay then they will come and take your REAl assets, like your house or business, in return for their created money. Very interesting.....

I hope that you find time to watch the documentary I recommeded and if you have time watch the Fall of the Republic. Then look around you and make up your mind for yourself and even research more, if you so wish.

All you are proving with your posts is that Rich corporations are corrupt and pay off politicans to get policies passed. This is not a conspiracy and it is not unique to the "Western Powers".......This is buisness as usual all over the world.
And worrying about ancient symbols placed in public places just stinks of parinoia, hell I was a history major and I have many decorations in my house with ancient symbols.......Does that mean I am a secret society?????

[Drake]

All you are proving with your posts is that Rich corporations are corrupt and pay off politicans to get policies passed. This is not a conspiracy and it is not unique to the "Western Powers".......This is buisness as usual all over the world.
And worrying about ancient symbols placed in public places just stinks of parinoia, hell I was a history major and I have many decorations in my house with ancient symbols.......Does that mean I am a secret society?????

Hey, if I'm an undercover operative assigned to discredit him, then ANYTHING is possible! :eek:

[Hardwork108]

Hey, if I'm an undercover operative assigned to discredit him, then ANYTHING is possible! :eek:

There you go spreading misinformation about me again......:rolleyes:

NO one said that you are an undercover operative assigned to discredit me. All I say is that you are another indoctrinated military person who feels obliged to discredit any info that goes against his employers. Perhaps deep inside you hope that they give you a "good boy" pat on the back for your (misplaced) loyalty*.

* As a US soldier, your loyalty should be to the American people and the Constitution and not to corrupt and psychopathic leaders/politicians!

[Dragonzbane76]

Believe me he would have gotten through and he would feed your taser to you the "reverse" way, if you know what I mean.
yeah yeah... everyones got one of "those" cousins. you ever been hit with 50,000v on a taser? nope? well you should try it sometime and then come back and tell me if the incredible hulk would keep coming though.

[Hardwork108]

All you are proving with your posts is that Rich corporations are corrupt and pay off politicans to get policies passed. This is not a conspiracy and it is not unique to the "Western Powers".......This is buisness as usual all over the world.

What I am saying is that the US and most, if not all, other "Democracies" are one party states that are run by the same families who run the corporations. These are the people behind most wars and human misery.


And worrying about ancient symbols placed in public places just stinks of parinoia, hell I was a history major and I have many decorations in my house with ancient symbols.......Does that mean I am a secret society?????

I believe you may need to do some research into these societies. Masonic societies are secret societies. They may have a public image, just like most secret organizations, but in essence they and their agendas are shrouded in secrecy.

Many high level politicians in the world belong to such societies and they take loyalty oaths to them. Because these societies function in secrecy they use symbolisms to make their mark and show their influence.

If you are interested then do some research. If you think that there is nothing to research then that is fine too. Just be aware that these same people are taking away your freedoms on an almost daily basis because of some fantasy War on Terrorism, against "demons" that they themselves have created.

There is also a war on the other SCAM, which is the so called "Global Warming", which creates more infringements on our freedoms and privacy, not to mention higher taxes for our corrupt politicians. Of course, this scam, which is fronted by Al "the con-man" Gore is being taken apart scientifically. However, will Al Gore be charged with fraud or deception, when all this is over? I personally doubt it?

Then we have the artificially designed Financial Crisis.

There are all artificially designed problems and the designers are the ones offering world solutions (read: world government).

Anyway, if these scams were to continue then we would all end up with a dictatorial world government, read the New World Order.

This means that things are not constant as they are moving forward as a means of achieving an agenda that is becoming more and more visible as the weeks and months go by.

People really have to WAKE UP and see the BIG picture and stop arguing about what the "Democrats" say and what the "Republicans" say as both of these parties have the same masters and the small discussions and differences are there to give an image of choice, to the sheep - the public!

[Hardwork108]

yeah yeah... everyones got one of "those" cousins. you ever been hit with 50,000v on a taser? nope? well you should try it sometime and then come back and tell me if the incredible hulk would keep coming though.

It seems that you have been working with mad people for too long.....You are not very intelligent, are you? LOL

[Drake]

There you go spreading misinformation about me again......:rolleyes:

NO one said that you are an undercover operative assigned to discredit me. All I say is that you are another indoctrinated military person who feels obliged to discredit any info that goes against his employers. Perhaps deep inside you hope that they give you a "good boy" pat on the back for your (misplaced) loyalty*.

* As a US soldier, your loyalty should be to the American people and the Constitution and not to corrupt and psychopathic leaders/politicians!

That, or maybe you're just batsh*t crazy?

[Hardwork108]

That, or maybe you're just batsh*t crazy?

Yeah, that must be it....:rolleyes:

HERE is some literature for you neurons:

Stewart Ogilby,
Editor of BigEye.com & NewsWatch.org

March 15, 2010

The 911 Cat is out of the bag

The lid is blowing off a story broadcast by American TV on September 11, 2001. The question now is whether or not owners and managers of America's mainline media will be able to continue burying facts, questions, controversy, speculations, and conclusions contradicting that day's professionally crafted narrative. When will the American people be given access to documented facts unearthed over the years since that tragic and exceptional day?

We were told repeatedly, even while the towers in New York were still standing, that a man in a cave in Afghanistan was responsible. We were led to believe that he managed a group of Arab terrorists who flew our commercial airliners on 911. As proof, his picture was repeatedly flashed across major TV networks with the smoking buildings in the background. Today, our own FBI claims they lack any evidence linking that man to 9/11.

We are still repeatedly shown, in newspapers and on TV, photos of 19 "Arab terrorists" supposedly on the planes, with no other proof of their even being there. Poorly produced and obviously faked videos of the big boogyman have been trotted out periodically. Where were they produced? The "flying Arabs" keep turning up alive and well. Who stole, forged, and assumed their identities? Other Arabs? Why?

There is evidence that the boogyman was seriously ill with kidney disease requiring dialysis, and that he died late in December, 2001. The CIA knew this because he was one of their assets right up until 911. What an ideal patsy, if there ever was one! Dead men tell no tales and they can never be captured.

We are now told by over a thousand architects and engineers that steel and concrete buildings do not explosively disintegrate due to fires within them. What really happened? Why have our leaders and pundits carefully avoided explaining the obvious demolition of WTC-7 hours later? Many of us think we know why.

Wars, torture, bankruptcy, the Patriot Act's overturning of our cherished Bill of Rights, official lies, scare propaganda, a police-state mentality, are these intended consequences of planning and executing the improbable events of that day?

If H.L. Mencken were alive today and writing for newpapers he would be having a field-day other than for the fact that his articles would never be seen in today's press. As I watch "911 truth" unfold I am reminded of Mencken's comment when asked why he, who was critical of this country, did not simply leave. Mencken quickly replied, "Why do men go to zoos?"

If the consequences to my country were considerably less than those resulting from Sept. 11, 2001, I, like Mencken, would find the spectacle to be incomparably amusing. We will all watch the spectacle unfold because the cat is out of the bag. Nobody and nothing can put it back in. Amusing is one thing it is not.

Some things I do know about my fellow countrymen. We have been free in the past, and have developed a uniquely American sense of personal independence and comraderie. We have historically been slow to rise in anger. TV is powerful but we know it is not real. It is an illusion. In the real world, civilized human beings understand that to conquer lies and murder the forces necessary are truth and justice.

Today we recoil in horror and in anger at those criminally responsible for 911. If we discover that those responsible for the murders of our citizens and the destruction of our heritage are, in fact, among us, we will demand the removal of those directly responsible and of accesssories before and after the fact.

I am turning 77 in two months and I love life. The other day I hired a personal nutritionalist because I want to lose 30-40 pounds which can be life-shortening at my age. I also have a personal trainer, as I want to maintain physical health and stamina. I want to be around to see what happens when Americans repudiate what TV and a controlled press has obliged viewers to believe happened on September 11, 2001.

I will, to the best of my ability, support the identification and prosecution of traitors to the best country in the world, the one in which I grew up. This each of us owes to America's next generation. Any alternative is unacceptable.


Interesting read, wouldn't you say?

Food for thought, I would say!

[Drake]

Ok..you posted someone's opinion... that was to do WHAT?

[Hardwork108]

Ok..you posted someone's opinion... that was to do WHAT?

To "enlighten" you?

And by the way, that was more than an "opinion", but nice try, anyway....

[Hardwork108]

Something that I forgot to mention was the accusations of child abuse/murder/paedophilia brought against establishment figures and members of secret societies and it seems, their quick cover-ups by those in power. It seems that this kind of disgusting behavior is part and parcel of our ruling classes!

Food for thought......

[Dragonzbane76]

It seems that you have been working with mad people for too long.....You are not very intelligent, are you? LOL

eh was a job years ago. so never been hit with a taser? like i said go get hit with one and then come talk to me about how it feels, and if your wondering why i was tasered and know, its mandatory to be hit with it in that line of work to know what it feels like, just like being maced as well. Of course i don't expect someone like you to know anything about a JOB since you probably live in your mom's basement and play warcraft all day.

[kfson]

Why does everyone think the president controls the economy or what laws are passed, etc, etc, etc?

[Drake]

Why does everyone think the president controls the economy or what laws are passed, etc, etc, etc?

Because they are ignorant of how things work. Serves them right for sleeping through the class.

[SanHeChuan]

What I am saying is that the US and most, if not all, other "Democracies" are one party states that are run by the same families who run the corporations. These are the people behind most wars and human misery.

Show me a list of board of directors that has the names of these families on them. Show me what lobbing groups these corporations support. You are making very broad statements, I want specifics.


I believe you may need to do some research into these societies. Masonic societies are secret societies. They may have a public image, just like most secret organizations, but in essence they and their agendas are shrouded in secrecy.

Just because they don't openly advocate the ideals you imagine for them doesn't mean they have hidden agendas. If they have a hidden agenda can you should be an actual internal document outlining this hidden agenda? Or is just an inference made based on perceived wrong doing?


Many high level politicians in the world belong to such societies and they take loyalty oaths to them. Because these societies function in secrecy they use symbolisms to make their mark and show their influence.

Yes the masons had a big influence on the founding of this nation in particular and their symbols are present here because the ideals of the mason and the U.S. are the same, liberty and equality. Too bad the masons are losing their touch.

And you'll notice that when most of these symbols started showing up in Europe was during the enlightenment because they represent the ideals of the humanist philosophers of the enlightenment who were interested in the history of Greece and Rome and ideas of ancient philosophers.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Crazy kids, don't you know that:
http://i50.tinypic.com/i4gx6v.jpg

[kfson]

Crazy kids, don't you know that:
http://i50.tinypic.com/i4gx6v.jpg

More interesting is the picture in the background and the "way overdone" wall trim.

[SanHeChuan]

By the way, banks are allowed to create money out of thin air by being allowed to lend more money then they have in their vaults..I believe for every 100 dollars, they can lend out a 1000. Interesting, no? They can lend you money that they don't have but you will need to pay interest on it and if you are not able to pay then they will come and take your REAl assets, like your house or business, in return for their created money. Very interesting.....

Credit is the best thing that has ever happened to the common person. Credit is why we have such a high standard of living. Credit is why we can afford to buy property, fancy cars, start businesses and get advanced educations.

What were people before credit? Poor, eeking out a living, always working for someone else. What chance did we have for upward mobility then? None. That was slavery to the overlords.

Yes banks can invent money, and that is great, because that means they have more to spread around. And yes they charge interest on it, because they are taking the risk giving you money that doesn't exist. They have to make that money exits either on the promise of your payment or by taking your assets. You want something for nothing?

Do you have a better system? If you want to see what a world without credit easily available looks like visit any third world country.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Credit sustains the economy, no way an economy is going to be viable waiting for people to save up enough to buy a new car or a new house on a consistent basis without credit.
Prices would have to drop dramatically and so would wages.
While I am sure everyone would like things to be cheaper, I don't think anyone here wants a pay cut too, LOL !

[Drake]

It also works both ways. By investing and saving, you get interest and dividends.

[SanHeChuan]

Talking of banking, don't you wonder why so many "elected" politicians are so silent about the fact that the Federal Reserve is a private bank, even though even some of the "official" media have partially validated this fact?

It is not owned by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. The government gets any profit produced by the bank after expenses.


Don't you wonder who the FD's shareholders are?

There is the federally appointed Board of Governors who makes decisions for the Fed…
Ben Bernanke, Chairman
Donald Kohn, Vice-Chairman
Kevin Warsh
Elizabeth A. Duke
Daniel Tarullo
http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/default.htm

And member banks who own stock in the 12 regional Fed banks.

The list can be found here, it’s 30 pages long so I won’t post it directly. Assuming 50 per page that’s 1500 member banks.
http://www.occ.treas.gov/foia/foia.htm

The 1st centry bank is the first on the list here are its board members

ALAN I. ROTHENBERG
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
1st Century Bancshares
WILLIAM S. ANDERSON
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
First Beverage Capital
DAVE BROOKS
President & Chief Executive Officer (Retired)
Mara Escrow Company
JOSEPH J. DIGANGE
President & Chief Operating Officer (Retired)
Western Bank
JASON P. DINAPOLI
Chief Executive Officer & President
1st Century Bank
ERIC M. GEORGE
Partner
Dreier, Stein, Kahan, Browne, Woods & George
ALAN D. LEVY
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
Tishman International Companies
ROBERT A. MOORE
Chief Credit Officer (Retired)
1st Century Bank, N.A.
BARRY D. PRESSMAN, M.D.
Chair of Imaging
S. Mark Taper Foundation Imaging Center & Department
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles
NADINE I. WATT
President
Watt Plaza Twin Towers
LEWIS N. WOLFF
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
Wolff Urban Development, LLC
http://www.1stcenturybank.com/bod_new.html

Please, point out which ones are our secret overlords?

[Hardwork108]

Show me a list of board of directors that has the names of these families on them. Show me what lobbing groups these corporations support. You are making very broad statements,

I make broad statements because we are on an internet board. IF you are genuinely interested then you can start by watching the documentaries on my signature, but I guess you won't. It is much easier to live in the black and white world of "the Democrats say this, and the Republicans say that"; "Or the Al Quaeda was behind 9-11 and everything else".

By the way, did you know that "Al Quaeda" does not really exist and it is the name given to the CIA computer file that contained details of the Taliban membership during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan? This name was brought forward to add spice to the 9-11 fantasy story.

And I hate to say it, but it was a propaganda success as even West hating Muslim started believing that Al Quaeda exists....LOL

Anyway, going back to your query. I would suggest that you try and find out more about the major shareholders, rather than directors or board members, eventhough I am sure that some of them can be shareholders too.

The name that most comes up by different researchers is the Rothchilds family, and then there are the Rockerfellers, the Warburgs, the British Royal family (and of Europe) and even the Bushes.

By the way, isn't it interesting in the land of the "free" USA, that most if not all American Presidents were genetically connected to European loyalty?

Food for thought?


I want specifics.
I am afraid for the specifics you are going to have to do a lot of reading and where applicable, watching presentations, some of which are available on the internet by the various authors who research this stuff.

Otherwise, the more I say the more you and people like you will ask because you are not really searching for knowledge. Instead you are trying to interrogate me to somehow "prove" me wrong.

Even without the benefit of the "specifics", I would ask you to look around you and see what is happening to the world. See the unset of the New World Order. See how it is being brought about, including the viscious methods used.

Look at how different regions of the world are encouraged to unite (at first, "economically"). Don't you see the connections?

Look at how power is being centralised all the time to deal with "world problems". Problems that are created by the same elements who are offering to solve them!

Look at constant mergers and takeovers of corporations, banks, etc. which is nothing less than the concentration of financial and economic power in fewer hands or rather the OVERT concentration.

Do you think that all of this is unconnected?

Look at the "Global Warming" scam. Do you think that this was merely the idea of Al "the crook" Gore? Look how opposing scientists were silenced for so long, across many nations. Don't you see an unseen alliance in this?

Look at 9-11. A story full of holes. To pull that off and to present the fantasy that is the official version, requires serious control of various government and "independent" media agencies. What are the implications of this?

Look at the "Christmas bombing" story, where witnesses saw the supposed "terrorist" stopped at boarding time but then let through by an unknown official. This was noted by WITNESSES. Yet, now the authorities are using this as another reason to bring in special X-ray equipment.

Where are the so called "investigative journalists"? Where are the questions?

Nowhere of course, and that is because we live in one party dictatorships but unfortunately, most of us don't seem aware of the fact!




Just because they don't openly advocate the ideals you imagine for them doesn't mean they have hidden agendas. If they have a hidden agenda can you should be an actual internal document outlining this hidden agenda? Or is just an inference made based on perceived wrong doing?
Instead of me "giving" you hidden documents, for which you would ask authentication evidence, followed by more questions (interrogations), why don't you take the time and read what some former high level Masons have written about these societies.

Also, how come cut throat psychopaths like Bill Clinton and George Bush Senior (also Skulls and Bones, together with his son), are said to be 33rd degree Freemasons, when most masons on the planet (presumably the honest ones) do not make it above the first 3 degrees? What does that tell you about the upper levels of this society?

By the way, wasn't Albert Pike, the founder of Ku Klux Klan, supposed to be the Sovereign Grand Commander of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Scottish Freemasonary in the American South? Wasn't he also a Satanist, for good measure? Aren't high level Masonic ceremonies "Satanic" in nature, with the Pentagram and such?

Wasn't president Johnson who escalated the war in Vietnam resulting in hundreds and thousands of deaths, also a 33rd degree Freemason?

What about Edgar Hoover, I have also read somewhere that he was a 33rd degree Mason and unbalanced person to say the least!

Real bunch of nice guys, wouldn't you say?

So, what goes?????


Yes the masons had a big influence on the founding of this nation in particular and their symbols are present here because the ideals of the mason and the U.S. are the same, liberty and equality.

I would go further and say that Masons have the whole world within their sphere of influence. Furthermore, they do not put their symbols and monuments everywhere because they happen to like antiques. They do so to mark their territory.


Too bad the masons are losing their touch.
I believe that they may have lost their touch hundreds of years ago. Some researchers believe that they started as good but their networks were infiltrated by un-homely elements.


And you'll notice that when most of these symbols started showing up in Europe was during the enlightenment because they represent the ideals of the humanist philosophers of the enlightenment who were interested in the history of Greece and Rome and ideas of ancient philosophers.

NO matter what they may or may not have "represented". The fact is that they represent secret society - occult - symbolisms and these societies (including Knights Templars, Jesuits, etc) have no business in areas of political influence, even in countries that pretend to be Democracies!

[Hardwork108]

Credit is the best thing that has ever happened to the common person.

Not really, You say that because you have been indoctrinated by the people who promote this type of "new" slavery.

I have managed to lead a fruitful life without the need for credit. So has my father, who is quite rich and his father before him who was very rich.

This thing about you needing credit in order to advance economically is total bull, created by the governments and authorities that are in the pockets of the banking cartels who have gathered enormous wealth from people who always want to live beyond their means.

Of course, those who borrow money and manage to increase their wealth are floanted infront of us 24/7 by the media, while those who lose their homes, cars and furniture are relatively forgotten.

Of course, intelligently administered low or no interest loans, specially by the government, for domestic agriculture or industry, will probably have some benefits.
Similar loans for first time home buyers may also be a good idea.

So, I am not 100% against loans, but the "buy anything you want" credit society we live in is just absurdly ridiculous and it only benefits the pockets of the bankers and helps make slaves of most of the population.


Credit is why we have such a high standard of living. Credit is why we can afford to buy property, fancy cars, start businesses and get advanced educations.
IF credit was controlled then you would perhaps get it to buy your own house, which should take priority over driving fancy cars or wearing fancy clothes.

I really believe that people should in general buy what they can afford as no matter how much credit you get from your bank, at the end of the day you will need to pay it back plus up to a couple hundred percent. Most of this crap is just vanity and we are bombarded by it through our media, 24/7!


What were people before credit? Poor, eeking out a living, always working for someone else. What chance did we have for upward mobility then? None. That was slavery to the overlords.
And now millions of people owe billions of dollars to the same overlords. The US itself owes Trillions of dollars. Who do you think is going to eventually pay for that? No thanks, I would rather drive a car that I can afford and buy tv set that I can afford. I don't need to get the "best" of everything as what is seen as the "best" is at best subjective and at worst, illusional.

And of course, I don't need to impress anyone by buying things that I cannot afford either, as that is also an illusion!


Yes banks can invent money, and that is great, because that means they have more to spread around.
LOL, you make it sound like they give it away...LOL.


And yes they charge interest on it, because they are taking the risk giving you money that doesn't exist.
Isn't collateral enough? If you answer, that they are a business and they need to make their profits, then I will say then why doesn't the government have a national bank, who can help the people rather than enslave them?

Then you should answer, because the government itself is corrupt and is owned lock, stock and barrel by the same banking cartels. ;)


They have to make that money exits either on the promise of your payment or by taking your assets. You want something for nothing?

I don't want something for nothing, as I don't borrow money!

Try it sometime.:)


Do you have a better system? If you want to see what a world without credit easily available looks like visit any third world country.

What, the same Third World countries that have been enslaved by debts to the same banking cartels that are screwing the First World countries? LOL

No thanks!

Well, I actually live in one of them!

[Hardwork108]

It is not owned by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. The government gets any profit produced by the bank after expenses.

You know, instead of endlessly going back and forth with me on this, why don't you take the time and watch this documentary and then we can discuss the facts there if you like :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173#



There is the federally appointed Board of Governors who makes decisions for the Fed…
Ben Bernanke, Chairman
Donald Kohn, Vice-Chairman
Kevin Warsh
Elizabeth A. Duke
Daniel Tarullo
http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/default.htm

And member banks who own stock in the 12 regional Fed banks.

The list can be found here, it’s 30 pages long so I won’t post it directly. Assuming 50 per page that’s 1500 member banks.
http://www.occ.treas.gov/foia/foia.htm

The 1st centry bank is the first on the list here are its board members

ALAN I. ROTHENBERG
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
1st Century Bancshares
WILLIAM S. ANDERSON
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
First Beverage Capital
DAVE BROOKS
President & Chief Executive Officer (Retired)
Mara Escrow Company
JOSEPH J. DIGANGE
President & Chief Operating Officer (Retired)
Western Bank
JASON P. DINAPOLI
Chief Executive Officer & President
1st Century Bank
ERIC M. GEORGE
Partner
Dreier, Stein, Kahan, Browne, Woods & George
ALAN D. LEVY
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
Tishman International Companies
ROBERT A. MOORE
Chief Credit Officer (Retired)
1st Century Bank, N.A.
BARRY D. PRESSMAN, M.D.
Chair of Imaging
S. Mark Taper Foundation Imaging Center & Department
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles
NADINE I. WATT
President
Watt Plaza Twin Towers
LEWIS N. WOLFF
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
Wolff Urban Development, LLC
http://www.1stcenturybank.com/bod_new.html

Please, point out which ones are our secret overlords?

I wouldn't know because they are not the shareholders of the Federal Reserve.

Please, watch the documentary and then we can discuss it, if you like. :)

[SanHeChuan]

IF you are genuinely interested then you can start by watching the documentaries on my signature, but I guess you won't.

They don't present orginal sources either. In fact when I did do a internet search the online docutments I found only provided other conspiracy theorest as references not orginial sources.


Anyway, going back to your query. I would suggest that you try and find out more about the major shareholders, rather than directors or board members, eventhough I am sure that some of them can be shareholders too.

As I demonstrated there are not individual shareholders.


The law is set up where shares can only be owned by member banks within the Federal Reserve branches. But these are not your typical corporate shares that entitle legal ownership. Rather, they bestow participation rights within the branch. Regardless the number of shares they own, each bank gets only one vote toward the branch Board of Directors who actually run the place. Only member domestic banks can own shares. No individuals or foreign entities.

The shares also do not entitle the bank to any profits of the branch bank. The shares do receive a standard 6% dividend. Otherwise, all Fed profit is turned over to the U.S. Treasury at the end of the year.

So who are the top shareholders. Since the law stipulates that the number of shares must be in proportion to the bank size, just look at the 10 biggest U.S. banks for the answer.


By the way, isn't it interesting in the land of the "free" USA, that most if not all American Presidents were genetically connected to European loyalty?

How distantly related? in 10 generations you can have over a 1,000 decendant if every decendant only had 2 children. 60,000 if they all had three kids.


One very interesting probability model created by a demographer for genealogists, is that a child born in 1947 in Englad tracing back to 1492 would have 60,000 ancestors. Going back further to 1215, this child would find that 80% of the entire population of England at that time would be on his/her family tree! So anyone living in present-day England who traces his/her lineage back through English history would theoretically be related. This is why genealogists find so many people searching for the same families in the 1600s and earlier, and why we find so many "cousins" out there in our search. I've found hundreds of cousins in the last year while searching via the Internet.
http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/misc/ancestors.shtml


So you are probably related to the royal family too, :eek: YOU must be illumiati!


Otherwise, the more I say the more you and people like you will ask because you are not really searching for knowledge. Instead you are trying to interrogate me to somehow "prove" me wrong.

I'm trying to find the truth. It just so happens that so far you're wrong. :p


I have managed to lead a fruitful life without the need for credit. So has my father, who is quite rich and his father before him who was very rich.

So you agruement that people don't need credit for upward mobility is that because your family was already rich they didn't need credit? :confused::rolleyes:


You know, instead of endlessly going back and forth with me on this, why don't you take the time and watch this documentary and then we can discuss the facts there if you like

Because that's what I do baby, and that documentary doesn't provide any sources for it's so called facts that I can verify for myself. I've already shown how wrong you are about the FED why would a trust your conclusions about anything else without variable proof.

[Hardwork108]

They don't present orginal sources either. In fact when I did do a internet search the online docutments I found only provided other conspiracy theorest as references not orginial sources.
Arron Russo's documentary provides plenty of sources - including the IRS agents. I am surprised that you missed that.



As I demonstrated there are not individual shareholders.

No, you demonstrated info from their own site!

It is like me saying that the CIA do not destablelize other nations; don't assassinate foreign (and US nationals). etc. based on their official job description...LOL



How distantly related? in 10 generations you can have over a 1,000 decendant if every decendant only had 2 children. 60,000 if they all had three kids.

If memory serves me correctly some of the relations don't even go back that far. And of course there would be "many decendents", but the US is not a single race country. Its population is made up of hundreds of other races. Yet most, if not all, US presidents are related to the British (and or European) Royal families. Some researchers state that the Royal families of Europe are actually one family, because of generations of interbreeding. One must wonder why they try and keep their bloodlines so pure and also how many other "democratically" elected world as well as business, leaders are related to them.



So you are probably related to the royal family too, :eek: YOU must be illumiati!
I am not and I am glad I am not related to mainly psychopathic families who through generations have murdered their own family members and friends; conquered and massacred other races; have been involved in international drugs dealing (see the Opium Wars). NO wonder,that their decendants in the US power elite - including the Presidents - are involved in most of the above. I guess it is a bloodline thing.




I'm trying to find the truth. It just so happens that so far you're wrong. :p
That may be your tinted glasses? :p



So you agruement that people don't need credit for upward mobility is that because your family was already rich they didn't need credit? :confused::rolleyes:
My grand father started with nothing. Survived political persecution, prison during a very unpleasant period in the early 20th century in country where life was very cheap at the time. He got out of jail probably because he bribed someone, and through very clever methods he got a little bit of his saving out (at great risk to his life).

My other grand father ( on my mothers side) also sufferred through holocaust scenarios (not Nazi/Jewish), he escaped too. He only borrowed money once which helped him get up on his feet. He never borrowed again. As I have stated before, sensible borrowing OK. However, I disagree on making economies depend on credit, in order for them to "grow". This is just slave creation, as far as I am concerned.

What were my grandfathers' secret? It was that they were intelligent and had a different mindset - they lived within their means. If they had the money for a $10,000 dollar car, then that is what they bought. They did not care if their neighbor was driving a 50 thousand dollar car.



Because that's what I do baby, and that documentary doesn't provide any sources for it's so called facts that I can verify for myself. I've already shown how wrong you are about the FED why would a trust your conclusions about anything else without variable proof.

I am spot on right about the FED. Please watch the documentary. See the interviews with the IRS agents and others. I am still surprised that you missed those sources.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, recently I was pleasantly surprised when on one of the news channels the Fed was criticized for being arrogant and there were words to the effect that they were not even a government institution but a PRIVATE one!

[SanHeChuan]

I am spot on right about the FED. Please watch the documentary. See the interviews with the IRS agents and others. I am still surprised that you missed those sources.

OK word games I can play word games. Those so called sources are court cases that do not support the claims made in the video. Did you ever look those cases up yourself, or are you just going to take their word for it?

What is the Law that states you have to pay income tax?
The answer is...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00000001----000-.html

26 U.S.C. § 1 U.S. Code TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter A > PART I > § 1 Tax imposed

The 16th Amendment gives congress the right to impose those taxes.

Now you want to argue that the 16th Amendment doesn't apply because, why, it was never ratified?

If this is true why doesn't Bill Benson (http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp) publish those document he uncovered on his website so we can all see for our selves?

Why? Because he is full of it.


UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff,
v.
George M. HOUSE and Marion M. House, Defendants. (http://www.quatloos.com/taxscams/protcase/house.htm)

Defendants have not, in either their initial motion or in their motion for reconsideration, asserted any authority for their contention that state resolutions are invalid if they do not exactly mirror in every particular the amendment as proposed by Congress.

Voluntary Compliance (http://taxes.about.com/od/taxglossary/g/Voluntary.htm)

I'm not going to go through that video point by point because it just too much work and not enough reward.

Which argument do you want to bring against paying taxes and I'll prove you wrong.

Also there is no source provided in that video nor even a claim that says the FED has secret shareholders.

[Hardwork108]

OK word games I can play word games.
Sorry, nobody is playing word games. I am showing you the truth the way I see it and you are doing the same....


Those so called sources are court cases that do not support the claims made in the video. Did you ever look those cases up yourself, or are you just going to take their word for it?
Have you looked at them and seen otherwise? If so, then tell me as I welcome any new information.

Here is a reference to a relevant court case -

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=111&contentid=909

It refers to its source as the August 9th, 2003 edition of the Memphis daily newspaper, The Commercial Appeal


[/QUOTE]http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26...1----000-.html

26 U.S.C. § 1 U.S. Code TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter A > PART I > § 1 Tax imposed[/quote]

The above seems to be nothing but a "law" on how to tax the population and it is dated January 5th, 2009. How long have the Americans been paying income tax? It seems just after the Federal Reserve came into being.


What is the Law that states you have to pay income tax?
The answer is...


The 16th Amendment gives congress the right to impose those taxes.

Now you want to argue that the 16th Amendment doesn't apply because, why, it was never ratified?

If this is true why doesn't Bill Benson (http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp) publish those document he uncovered on his website so we can all see for our selves?

Why? Because he is full of it.

If you are really interested and have not made up your mind already, then perhaps you can ask him for yourself?

Have a look at this link and the links within.

http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy20.htm

Actually, if you have any real doubts, then you should see relevant legal advice in regards your income taxes and the law. Also, you can ask your government for proof that this tax was ratified or at least to show you an actual law requiring you to pay income tax, which apparently goes against what the Founding Fathers had put into the Constitution.

Why don't you contact the Tax Honesty Movement who have their own lawyers and were involved in the court case in Memphis? I am sure they would answer your queries with enphusiasm.




Voluntary Compliance (http://taxes.about.com/od/taxglossary/g/Voluntary.htm)

I'm not going to go through that video point by point because it just too much work and not enough reward.

Which argument do you want to bring against paying taxes and I'll prove you wrong.

Also there is no source provided in that video nor even a claim that says the FED has secret shareholders.

IF I remember correctly, the video claims that no one knows who the shareholders are, or something to that effect. If you had watched it then you would know....

What argument do I want?

Start by just looking at the links I provided. I don´ t know wether you are arguing because you have solid facts or if it is because you believe, "my government wouldn't dare!" scenario.

And again, the "privateness" or the "none governmentness" of the Federal Reserve Bank has been in the mainstream US media lately.

Secondly, a question. When the Fed print money and lend it to the US government, don't they charge an interest on that loan? IF so, aren't the taxpayers who are loaded with this coast through their income taxes?

[Drake]

I love how basic economics eludes some people. Just totally confuses them to the point where they can't even begin to understand and start pointing fingers at everyone.

[Hardwork108]

I love how basic economics eludes some people. Just totally confuses them to the point where they can't even begin to understand and start pointing fingers at everyone.

SanHeChuan, seems to be on your side, so why are you bad mouthing him? :confused:

By the way, isn't "basic" economics what you have been indoctrinated to believe them to be....example, "borrowing money is good"? LOL

Anyone, who holds the above position has no clue and should research REAL economics, for example try and find out why the US deficit is in the trillions of dollars territory, and where the soulution for that problem is going to come from?

Food for thought!!!!!

[Drake]

SanHeChuan, seems to be on your side, so why are you bad mouthing him? :confused:

By the way, isn't "basic" economics what you have been indoctrinated to believe them to be....example, "borrowing money is good"? LOL

Anyone, who holds the above position has no clue and should research REAL economics, for example try and find out why the US deficit is in the trillions of dollars territory, and where the soulution for that problem is going to come from?

Food for thought!!!!!

I was talking about you. You are ignorant of economics. Even at the basic level. Completely and utterly ignorant.

[Hardwork108]

I was talking about you.
Of course you were but you missed my sense of irony or attempt at "pulling your leg"...LOL


You are ignorant of economics. Even at the basic level. That is how the controls have gotten away with all of their scams and manipulation, because if fool enough people then the society commences to self-censure itself while ridiculing anyone who goes against the indoctrinated "norms"!

That would be because the "sheep" - the masses - are indoctrinated and hood winked from an early age starting with their basic education.


Completely and utterly ignorant.
Millions of people in your country (and others) are enslaved to banks by debt; The US it self is in debt to the tune of 100s of trillions of dollars to the same private banking cartels; most of the world is in a financial crisis thanks to those very banks, and you are calling me ignorant?

Yes "a credit society is very good for your health" as long as you are an indoctrinated and brainless zombie!

[Drake]

Of course you were but you missed my sense of irony or attempt at "pulling your leg"...LOL



That would be because the "sheep" - the masses - are indoctrinated and hood winked from an early age starting with their basic education.


Millions of people in your country (and others) are enslaved to banks by debt; The US it self is in debt to the tune of 100s of trillions of dollars to the same private banking cartels; most of the world is in a financial crisis thanks to those very banks, and you are calling me ignorant?

Yes "a credit society is very good for your health" as long as you are an indoctrinated and brainless zombie!

Uh no. Are you truly that naive? If you want a home, either dig yourself up a few hundred grand, or get a loan. It's up to you. Most of us don't have that kind of money. Same goes for starting a business.

And if you can't repay what you borrow, who's fault is that? You honestly blame a creditor because the idiot lied to get credit? Whose fault is it when they "plan for increased wages" to cover for an increase they KNEW would occur?

Nobody is FORCED to take credit, but you had better be good at saving your sheckles. You can buy anything without credit. If you are a slave to a bank, that means YOU made a poor decision, and you are likely part of what is causing the bank crashes to occur.

I hate it when non-Americans (some Canadians/Brits understand, sometimes) try and discuss American economics. Absolutely clueless.

[Hardwork108]

Uh no. Are you truly that naive?
Actually you and the rest of the brainwashed population are the naive ones. An economy based on credit is a loosing proposition.


If you want a home, either dig yourself up a few hundred grand, or get a loan. It's up to you. Most of us don't have that kind of money. Same goes for starting a business.
Understood, but then I did say that sometimes credit is justified, but that is still different from basing or pretending that the well being of the economy depends on credit. That is just a big LIE!



And if you can't repay what you borrow, who's fault is that? You honestly blame a creditor because the idiot lied to get credit?
I would blame the idiot for lying!

However, it is a well known fact that the system encourages and makes it easy for people to borrow!

I blame the creditor when they give loans just to anyone who can offer a collateral, because they know that if the debtor does not pay back the "created money", the banks can get their hands on the debtors home, business, car, etc. - REAL ASSETS. Actually, some say that the banks hope that some debtors don't pay back as this way the bank can take over what they own.


Whose fault is it when they "plan for increased wages" to cover for an increase they KNEW would occur?
Considering that some crisis are caused by banking cartels themselves then one can understand the complete scope of the scam brought upon the masses.

Here is something you should watch to enlighten yourself, but we both know that you will do your best to avoid watching it as for some mysterious reason some tough military men are afraid of coming out of their intellectual comfort zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peiTfY7Bx4c


Nobody is FORCED to take credit, but you had better be good at saving your sheckles. You can buy anything without credit. If you are a slave to a bank, that means YOU made a poor decision,
It takes two my friend. The banks have been giving credit to people they shouldn't have given any credit to!!!

Private Banking cartels have been creating crisis and booms for a long time, while the population with help of the prostitute (to banks) politicians and media has been told that these are just economic "facts", or "mistakes" that have to be corrected by international law and the solution for the current crisis is, surprise, surprise, a centralized banking system. Global problem, then a proposed Global solution, that is more centralization. One more step towards the New World Order.



and you are likely part of what is causing the bank crashes to occur.
Another reason the current crisis was created by the banking cartels was to get their hands on the assets (homes, businesses, cars, land) of as many poor bast@rds as possible. Of course, that was not enough as the prostitute politicians gave them billions of more tax payer dollars to "bail them out", apparently.

That was one big scam, perhaps one of the biggest in US history, but the "Mr Prr'sident is always right" zombies will never realize this.

I wonder how many of those same politicians are going to end up in cushy bank jobs as board members, consulting agents, etc in those very institutions, after they leave political office??? Would you like to hazard a guess?

What did some of these same banks do next after being bailed out? Well, they gave some of their senior managers huge bonuses. This actually caused some public outcry in the UK. And you people sit there and say of the system is fine, nothing to worry about. LOL

And again, what is so great about having a multi hundred trillion dollar deficit?

The US is a rich country, with industry (which unfortunately has been diminished by the manipulators of NWO), Agriculture, Mineral resources and a huge financial services industry.
So, the US should not be under debt to anyone!!!!!!!!

The US economy should not depend on a "North American Union", EVER!!!!

The fact is that you the Americans, don't need anyone's credit and you certainly don't need to unite with other countries. You can do fine through normal trading channels as before!!!!

So why do you owe hundreds of trillions of dollars? Who is it that you owe to? Why should a North American regional union be beneficial to you?

These are questions that you need to ask and not just blindly follow the orders of disgustingly corrupt, psychopathic political leaders!!!!


I hate it when non-Americans (some Canadians/Brits understand, sometimes) try and discuss American economics. Absolutely clueless.
Hey you can always make an Al Quaeda connection with South America and come and bomb us to oblivion???

It is easy as the masses evidently believe any crap fed to them through the media by their politicians. Perhaps you can say that you found the telephone number of a South American president inside the underwear of the Christmas bomber (who was apparently given access to the plane by US officials..LOL).

If anyone gets suspicious or disagrees then you officials of "the land of free speech" can call him a conspiracy "theorist" and a nut, or even label him a supporter of terrorism. Perhaps you can refer to him as anti semetic?

Anyway, if you use enough name calling then all critiques will shut up and you can come here and bomb everyone to your pleasure. :rolleyes:

[Dragonzbane76]

Hey you can always make an Al Quaeda connection with South America and come and bomb us to oblivion???

haha just your house. we could leave the rest of the country intact.


Actually you and the rest of the brainwashed population are the naive ones. An economy based on credit is a loosing proposition

it's always everyone else isn't it? Your the only one who has teh "real" understanding of whats going on. Forget CIA/FBI they come to you for the info, because they know you have fully searched youtube for teh "real" info. Dude your a crackpot plain and simple.

[SanHeChuan]

Here is a reference to a relevant court case -

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=111&contentid=909

In that court case UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. VERNICE KUGLIN the defendant won using the Good Faith Defense.


One who expresses an opinion honestly held by him, or a belief honestly entertained by him, is not chargeable with fraudulent intent even though his opinion is erroneous or his belief is mistaken; and, similarly, evidence which establishes only that a person made a mistake in judgment or an error in management, or was careless, does not establish fraudulent intent.

Just because the defendant was found not to be purposely trying to defraud the government, does NOT mean the law does not apply nor exisit.

Try again.


The above seems to be nothing but a "law" on how to tax the population and it is dated January 5th, 2009.


It states that "There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of—" Title 26 is the law that says you have to pay taxes. It is published every 6 years.


IF I remember correctly, the video claims that no one knows who the shareholders are, or something to that effect. If you had watched it then you would know....

You watched how come you don't know? If someone doesn't know it's because they haven't taken the time to looked into it. I did. There are not private shareholders.


Secondly, a question. When the Fed print money and lend it to the US government, don't they charge an interest on that loan? IF so, aren't the taxpayers who are loaded with this coast through their income taxes?

The Fed does not print money. The U.S. Treasury prints money. They U.S. Treasurey does not create that money out of thin air. The Money created by the U.S. Treasury is secured by selling U.S. Treasury bonds. The Bonds are sold on an open market that you I or anyone else can purchase and earn Interest off of. The Fed buys these same bonds.

[Hardwork108]

In that court case UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. VERNICE KUGLIN the defendant won using the Good Faith Defense.



Just because the defendant was found not to be purposely trying to defraud the government, does NOT mean the law does not apply nor exisit.

Then show me a specific law that says that you have to pay an income tax and not a law that says HOW you should pay your taxes.

By the way, even if they were to make a law tomorrow, it would not make it automatically Constitutional!


It states that "There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of—" Title 26 is the law that says you have to pay taxes. It is published every 6 years.

Of course you have to pay taxes, but the issue here is Income Tax (also, its destination) and how the US Constitution sees this. I am led to believe that the Constitution sees a citizen's personal work as his private property, hence not taxable by the government. If this is true then how can there be a law to oblige you to pay income tax?




You watched how come you don't know? If someone doesn't know it's because they haven't taken the time to looked into it. I did. There are not private shareholders.
The Federal Reserve is made up of private banks and hence it is a private corporation. Private corporations have private owners!


The Fed does not print money. The U.S. Treasury prints money. They U.S. Treasurey does not create that money out of thin air. The Money created by the U.S. Treasury is secured by selling U.S. Treasury bonds. The Bonds are sold on an open market that you I or anyone else can purchase and earn Interest off of. The Fed buys these same bonds.
The US Federal Reserve has been creating money out of thin air since the day the government got rid of the gold standard. There is nothing tangible to back the dollars in your pocket.

Have a read here, that is if you are interested and not just agueing for the sake of arguing (which you seem to like to do according to what you wrote in another thread):

When Congress borrows money on the credit of the United States, bonds are thus legislated into existence and deposited as credit entries in Federal Reserve banks. United States bonds, bills and notes constitute money as affirmed by the Supreme Court (Legal Tender Cases, 110 U.S. 421), and this money when deposited with the Fed becomes collateral from whence the Treasury may write checks against the credit thus created in its account (12 USC 391). For example, suppose Congress appropriates an expenditure of $1 billion. To finance the appropriation Congress creates the $1 billion worth of bonds out of thin air and deposits it with the privately owned Federal Reserve System. Upon receiving the bonds, the Fed credits $1 billion to the Treasury's checking account, holding the deposited bonds as collateral. When the United States deposits its bonds with the Federal Reserve System, private credit is extended to the Treasury by the Fed. Under its power to borrow money, Congress is authorized by the Constitution to contract debt, and whenever something is borrowed it must be returned. When Congress spends the contracted private credit, each use of credit is debt which must be returned to the lender or Fed. Since Congress authorizes the expenditure of this private credit, the United States incurs the primary obligation to return the borrowed credit, creating a National Debt which results when credit is not returned. When Congress borrows money on the credit of the United States, bonds are thus legislated into existence and deposited as credit entries in Federal Reserve banks. United States bonds, bills and notes constitute money as affirmed by the Supreme Court (Legal Tender Cases, 110 U.S. 421), and this money when deposited with the Fed becomes collateral from whence the Treasury may write checks against the credit thus created in its account (12 USC 391). For example, suppose Congress appropriates an expenditure of $1 billion. To finance the appropriation Congress creates the $1 billion worth of bonds out of thin air and deposits it with the privately owned Federal Reserve System. Upon receiving the bonds, the Fed credits $1 billion to the Treasury's checking account, holding the deposited bonds as collateral. When the United States deposits its bonds with the Federal Reserve System, private credit is extended to the Treasury by the Fed. Under its power to borrow money, Congress is authorized by the Constitution to co...all » When Congress borrows money on the credit of the United States, bonds are thus legislated into existence and deposited as credit entries in Federal Reserve banks. United States bonds, bills and notes constitute money as affirmed by the Supreme Court (Legal Tender Cases, 110 U.S. 421), and this money when deposited with the Fed becomes collateral from whence the Treasury may write checks against the credit thus created in its account (12 USC 391). For example, suppose Congress appropriates an expenditure of $1 billion. To finance the appropriation Congress creates the $1 billion worth of bonds out of thin air and deposits it with the privately owned Federal Reserve System. Upon receiving the bonds, the Fed credits $1 billion to the Treasury's checking account, holding the deposited bonds as collateral. When the United States deposits its bonds with the Federal Reserve System, private credit is extended to the Treasury by the Fed. Under its power to borrow money, Congress is authorized by the Constitution to contract debt, and whenever something is borrowed it must be returned. When Congress spends the contracted private credit, each use of credit is debt which must be returned to the lender or Fed. Since Congress authorizes the expenditure of this private credit, the United States incurs the primary obligation to return the borrowed credit, creating a National Debt which results when credit is not returned.


I go with the above description rather than yours.

Here is Republican Congressman Ron Paul talking about what the Fed is all about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q

Ron Paul is one of the few politicians who pubically criticizes this corrupt to the core organization (Federal Reserve).

IF you have any more doubts about the Fed then look at this short piece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzIgTRKx7yA

[Hardwork108]

I am glad that you are reading every single one of my posts, even when they are not addressed to you. LOL


haha just your house. we could leave the rest of the country intact.
I live in an apartment building, but I guess that won't stop you from trying, after all, the US Airforce took out whole city blocks trying to kill Saddam's sons. What about the rest of the people who were blown to bits in those attempts? Oh, they were not victims they were "collateral damage". Anyway, they died for "Freedom and Democracy", so it was worth it?

By the way, having seen the resutls of your lazer guided precision bombing, my money is in you blowing up the children's hospital a few streets away from where I live - by "accident" of course.....



it's always everyone else isn't it? Your the only one who has teh "real" understanding of whats going on.
You have got it wrong. Many people have the "real understanding" of what is going on, and it seems that you and some other military or ex-military robots that are finding it difficult to wake up.

I mean look at Drake's life in denial. Look at Sanjuro-ronin's (ex Canadian "peace" keeper and an interantionally accredited knucklehead) idiotic contributions to this thread and add them up with your own "memorable" posts.


Forget CIA/FBI they come to you for the info, because they know you have fully searched youtube for teh "real" info. Dude your a crackpot plain and simple.

Again you have got it all wrong. You are an indoctrinated zombie.

You think that the war on "terrorism" is to protect the "Free World" and to bring "Democracy" and "Justice" to all those dictatorial countries. Nothing to do with strategic power; Control of natural resources (such as Oil), and the furtherance of the New World Order agenda, which means OVERT dictatorial control of the world by the same people who have been screwing the world for the last few centuries.

You are a simpleton. You think that you choose your leaders, while those leaders have been chosen for you.

People like you are easily led, but don't worry because you are in the majority, at least for now, as many people are waking up and asking questions. While zombies like you are in the "if you say so, Mr President" mode of thinking.


By the way, I just look around and I can see a lot of things that people like you cannot.

It is called intelligence. ;)