DVD review

[SavvySavage]

Has anyone here viewed the 2 Internal Power Dynamics DVDs by Mike Patterson? Mike Patterson teachs hsing I, ba gua, and tai ji for competitin and fighting. I was wondering if anyone thinks the power building excercises are beneficial to those who already have experience.

Normally I mightve just bought it and made my own assessment but the DVD is only 35 min and it costs $35. That's a dollar a minute! A little too pricey to be buying on the fly, IMO

[MartialDev]

How much would you be willing to pay per minute of private lessons? Just curious.

[David Jamieson]

35 dollars for a 35 minute dvd is expensive. :eek:

[SavvySavage]

Generally speaking I would never take private lessons especially in the traditional martial arts world. Private lessons usually translates into form training. I'd rather be in a class with others, get some personal time with an instructor, and do it on my own without the guy breathing down my neck.

Enhow, David. $35 is a lot of money. What of the first 5-10 minutes is an intoduction with swirly girly crouching tiger Chinese music with no instruction? Then I'm screwed.

[Dale Dugas]

Seems your view on training is a little eschewed.

Private lessons are not forms lessons. Private lessons are you and the teacher one on one going over what was agreed upon by both parties.

I teach private lessons and public lessons.

I have many people come to me to learn the various arts that I have studied. Private lessons are much more in depth as I can focus on one person and make sure they understand all that is being presented to them.

You might get a good education in public classes, but getting privates never hurts so that you can make sure you understand what the material really means from that teacher.

It is also offensive when you think of all the sweat, blood and tears that Shifu Patterson has shed to learn and then teach all that he has to offer, listening to you ASSume you know how his material is presented and his pricing of said material.

He has great results and great material. He has taught many people how to really use what he teaches. His record is rather public.

You want it? You feel it is going to help you further your knowledge?

Then purchase it.


I have had numerous people contact me and tell me that this or that is too expensive. actually trying to haggle with me over the price of certain material and programs.

If you really want it, then you will get it, no matter the cost if you feel it is something that is beneficial to you and your training.

There is no entitlement in the martial arts, though most people nowadays feel that there is. You want something then you have to work for it.

$35.00 is not a lot of money if you are talking about knowledge.

[David Jamieson]

35 bucks for 35 minutes is a lot if it's a pig in a poke.
If there's no knowledge to be gained, you're out 35 bucks I guess.
If there is something, then it's up to you to decide if it was worth your 35 bucks.

I think charging that much is a bit much. Nobody really has anything all that special.
Ultimately it is you who has to do the work anyway. lol

[Dale Dugas]

David,

Breaking someone's ricebowl is offensive. Unless it is Brian Gray we are talking about.

Shifu Patterson has a lot to offer those seeking how to use their material effectively.

You want to come out and state his material is not worth the money, how about coming out with something other than words, as he is doing?

You put down a lot of people, yet never show us if you have any skills or not.

[SavvySavage]

Dale,
I can see where this conversation is going. You're going to mention the pea**** feathers on your alter and issue some silly challenge. It may not be a fight challenge but a challenge to show skills lime you almost stated. Stop being so macho. In the end no one cares about you or Mike Patterson or his DVD or me.

If you don't like my views about private lessons then that's fine. We can agree to disagree. I'm not sure why you took my comment personally as I don't know you from a hole in the wall. Please relax.

I started this thread to ascertain whether or not Mr. Patterson's exercises were of benefit to anyone here and if it would benefit someone with prior experience.

I was not questioning the man or what he teaches. For the record I respect what he teaches and how he learned it. He learned from a teacher that taught a Loy of conditioning and sparring. His teacher was also a traditional bone setter. No more drama queens please

[kfson]

I have purchased some of Shifu Patterson's Xing Yi dvds.
He appears to know his subject very well in this field, from my perspective.

My previous Tai Chi teacher and OM doc said if you are practicing some serious internal exercises without a teacher, you should be checked every two weeks by a doctor of oriental medicine to make sure you are not damaging yourself.

[Dale Dugas]

Dale,
I can see where this conversation is going. You're going to mention the pea**** feathers on your alter and issue some silly challenge. It may not be a fight challenge but a challenge to show skills lime you almost stated. Stop being so macho. In the end no one cares about you or Mike Patterson or his DVD or me.

If you don't like my views about private lessons then that's fine. We can agree to disagree. I'm not sure why you took my comment personally as I don't know you from a hole in the wall. Please relax.

I started this thread to ascertain whether or not Mr. Patterson's exercises were of benefit to anyone here and if it would benefit someone with prior experience.

I was not questioning the man or what he teaches. For the record I respect what he teaches and how he learned it. He learned from a teacher that taught a Loy of conditioning and sparring. His teacher was also a traditional bone setter. No more drama queens please

You started this thread and asked if what this teacher has is of merit.

Pony up the 35.00 and get the dvd and then you can answer your own questions.

good luck with your attitude. seems you have no idea what Wu De is about.

You say you respect what he has, and how he learned it yet you B I T C H about such a small amount of money, and ask an open question on a MA forum about him and his material.

Respect is buying the DVD and showing Shifu Patterson you are interested in his material.

[bawang]

to hell with wude. you try not eating for three days straight because you have no monies.

if anyone wants i can sell my instruction vcd (im too poor to make dvd) for only 15.99
or video casette for only 10.99

[Dale Dugas]

If you want something, save your pennies and get it.

It will mean more to you then.

eating bitter is not easy to do.

[B-Rad]

It would probably be pretty easy to pare down most martial arts instructional vids I've seen to 35 minutes. How many stretch out a 1.5 minute form into a 60 minute video and still fail to show any meaningful usage? Just saying you can't judge the worth of an instructional vid by its length. If you know this is information that helped someone you respect become very successful, then $35 isn't very much. If not, then even $10 is too much :-P Really though, its still cheaper than a lot of more frivolous items many of us buy every month (assuming the info is good... I'm not familiar with his methods or the level of competition he faced back in the day).

[Drake]

Videos can be very useful, but it really depends on how the content is delivered. I've seen videos where they simply show the form and say "good luck", and I've seen videos where they go over every section of the form, pointers for proper technique, practical applications, and the teacher even providing an accompanying script to study.

Master Tat Mau Wong had a very complete package, which included booklets, historical stories, basic Cantonese lessons, audio tapes, and videos which taught both technique and forms, all providing direction on proper execution. Heck, he even had a "bloopers" reel at the end, to show us that even the best make mistakes. It WAS a bit pricey, though, costing around $120 per package. Unfortunately, I hear this was discontinued.

[Shaolindynasty]

Really though, its still cheaper than a lot of more frivolous items many of us buy every month

Correct! I sometimes wonder why people in the martial arts are so cheap. What else will you spend the $35 on? A pizza? a movie? I say get the dvd if it has one thing you could use to get better than it was worth it.

[kfson]

I spent $35.00 on this last weekend,
finally found the right one:
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/Elvis%20lamp.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

Quality of quantitiy.
Sure it would be nice to see 60 techniques in 60 minutes, but what would you learn?
IF those 35 min teach you something and you can learn from them, then it's better than doing the same thing in 60 min, no?

[SavvySavage]

You started this thread and asked if what this teacher has is of merit.

Pony up the 35.00 and get the dvd and then you can answer your own questions.

good luck with your attitude. seems you have no idea what Wu De is about.

You say you respect what he has, and how he learned it yet you B I T C H about such a small amount of money, and ask an open question on a MA forum about him and his material.

Respect is buying the DVD and showing Shifu Patterson you are interested in his material.

I respect everyone somewhat equally. Mike Patterson isn't my teacher so I don't need to show him anymore respect than a smile in the subway as I'm walking by. You're pushing your overblown wu de machoness on the subject. If someone puts out a product I have the right, since it's my money, to ask questions about it. Is it disrespectful to find out if a doctor has a lot of lawsuits/complaints against him before going under his knife? No.

Thank you to the rest of you for your answers. I liked the point about how most videos can be cut down to a half hour of quality instruction although I have some very good DVDs that could not be cut down without taking away vital information.

And finally someone who actually bought the DVDs weighed in. Thank you for that.

[MasterKiller]

Quality of quantitiy.
Sure it would be nice to see 60 techniques in 60 minutes, but what would you learn?
IF those 35 min teach you something and you can learn from them, then it's better than doing the same thing in 60 min, no?

I have an Anderson Silva DVD that shows about 40 combinations in 55 minutes. You see it done from different angles, you are told when to use it, and he moves on. Anything else you learn about them is going to be gleaned through trial and error while sparring, anyway.

[kfson]

Has anyone here viewed the 2 Internal Power Dynamics DVDs by Mike Patterson? Mike Patterson teachs hsing I, ba gua, and tai ji for competitin and fighting. I was wondering if anyone thinks the power building excercises are beneficial to those who already have experience.

Normally I mightve just bought it and made my own assessment but the DVD is only 35 min and it costs $35. That's a dollar a minute! A little too pricey to be buying on the fly, IMO

Post the link, I might buy it since I'm a little familiar with him from other dvd's.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have an Anderson Silva DVD that shows about 40 combinations in 55 minutes. You see it done from different angles, you are told when to use it, and he moves on. Anything else you learn about them is going to be gleaned through trial and error while sparring, anyway.

Well, whippty freaking do !!!
:D

Now, did he HAVE to show ALL those combos?

[TenTigers]

ok, two things:

1) Private lessons with a Traditional teacher is not forms while he watches, unless the teacher is a forms collector.
I have private lessons with my teacher all the time.
He has me do the form once, makes a correction,
and then for the next few hours it's all hands-on.

2) $35.00 is cheap for a DVD these days, and is well worth the money, providing the info is good. Many sell for around $60.00.

What nobody seemed to mention is that for your 35 bucks, it's not at all like a private lesson. It's not a one shot deal.
You get to watch the dvd over and over again, pause it, play it back as many times as you like, at any time of the day or night, whenever you like.
Shifu Patterson has a good rep as well, so what have you got to lose?

[TenTigers]

ok, two things:



or maybe three....

[Dale Dugas]

I respect everyone somewhat equally. Mike Patterson isn't my teacher so I don't need to show him anymore respect than a smile in the subway as I'm walking by. You're pushing your overblown wu de machoness on the subject. If someone puts out a product I have the right, since it's my money, to ask questions about it. Is it disrespectful to find out if a doctor has a lot of lawsuits/complaints against him before going under his knife? No.

Thank you to the rest of you for your answers. I liked the point about how most videos can be cut down to a half hour of quality instruction although I have some very good DVDs that could not be cut down without taking away vital information.

And finally someone who actually bought the DVDs weighed in. Thank you for that.

Good luck with your public classes and gleaming information off dvds.

My door is open, and I can show you much.

[Dale Dugas]

ok, two things:

1) Private lessons with a Traditional teacher is not forms while he watches, unless the teacher is a forms collector.
I have private lessons with my teacher all the time.
He has me do the form once, makes a correction,
and then for the next few hours it's all hands-on.

2) $35.00 is cheap for a DVD these days, and is well worth the money, providing the info is good. Many sell for around $60.00.

What nobody seemed to mention is that for your 35 bucks, it's not at all like a private lesson. It's not a one shot deal.
You get to watch the dvd over and over again, pause it, play it back as many times as you like, at any time of the day or night, whenever you like.
Shifu Patterson has a good rep as well, so what have you got to lose?

Pretty much what I said. But I get lambasted by some net ghost who asks a million questions on other threads and when told how to simply fix it he quotes medical doctors malpractice as being a good standard for purchasing martial arts dvds.

good luck with that.

[SavvySavage]

Tentigers,

you always have to be so darn politically correct. I brought the time issue up but it was minor. You're correct that $35 isn't a lot IF the info is good. I started this thread to find out if the info was worth it.

I've learned a lot of forms from some very esteemed traditinal teachers. Do they teach other things? Of course. But we did a lot of forms. Too much in my opinion. I wouldn't go to a private lesson of the arm falling type. This is where I throw a semi-hard punch at you and you do crazy techniques that wouldn't work if I were resisting. That's why I believe what judo people do is good training.

Dale,
you were somewhat ambiguous with your last statement. Were you throwing out your feathers again or were you inviting me down for a friendly private lesson?

[David Jamieson]

David,

Breaking someone's ricebowl is offensive. Unless it is Brian Gray we are talking about.

Shifu Patterson has a lot to offer those seeking how to use their material effectively.

You want to come out and state his material is not worth the money, how about coming out with something other than words, as he is doing?

You put down a lot of people, yet never show us if you have any skills or not.

I don't put down a lot of people and by saying a dvd is too expensive considering the time and material in question is not breaking anyone;'s rice bowl.

It's merely pointing out that a 35 dollar dvd in a world of 20 dollar dvds that are more extensive and longer lasting time wise is not something that I wouldn't question.

I'm sure Mr. Patterson knows his subject, but is he pricing it appropriately? It is not in line with hundreds of others of offerings out there so what does that say about those?

So, no one is putting anyone down and no one is trying to break anyones rice bowl. Just seeking a little justification in regards to a 35 dollar dvd that has 35 minutes of material maybe on it.

Also, I put down a lot of people? I think not Dale. I question the motivations of some and it is always in context to what they are stating or implying.

Over the years, I have openly exchanged, met up with, crossed hands with, demonstrated for and with others in the martial community in a variety of places and venues. I'm sorry if you never bumped hip to any of it or weren't around when I was dropping vids and writing articles etc etc. But I can't do anything about that. That's not why I'm into it anyway.

So, don't bag on me about my comments even if Mike Patterson is a pal of yours personally, that doesn't matter.

[Frost]

As pointed out the cost is not much... and the teachers rep is good... But as always buyer beware just because someone has a good rep doesn't mean they put out a good product or that this particular product is worth the cost..... so this gentleman is being sensible asking for feedback before spending his money. Its nothing to do with being disrespectful or anything of the sort, once you put out a commercial product then the buyer is entitled to see if its worth the cost.

The other point is how much can you learn from a video anyway, i have always found out its from hands on training that you get the most benefit, no matter what level you are at, can you learn from tapes if you are good enough...sure but can you learn more fom actually being with a teacher...yes

[Dale Dugas]

Tentigers,

you always have to be so darn politically correct. I brought the time issue up but it was minor. You're correct that $35 isn't a lot IF the info is good. I started this thread to find out if the info was worth it.

I've learned a lot of forms from some very esteemed traditinal teachers. Do they teach other things? Of course. But we did a lot of forms. Too much in my opinion. I wouldn't go to a private lesson of the arm falling type. This is where I throw a semi-hard punch at you and you do crazy techniques that wouldn't work if I were resisting. That's why I believe what judo people do is good training.

Dale,
you were somewhat ambiguous with your last statement. Were you throwing out your feathers again or were you inviting me down for a friendly private lesson?

Anytime you want to come learn I can help you.

[kfson]

OK everyone, 1, 2, 3:
http://media.bigoo.ws/content/gif/funny/funny_243.gif

[Dale Dugas]

FYI: This is the information on Shifu Patterson's website in relation to the DVD in question.

http://www.hsing-i.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=111&Product_Code=DVDRTIF1&Category_Code=IEx

Regular List Price for this title is: $39.95

For a reduced size sample clip of a small portion of the content found on this video, click the link below:
Internal Force Dynamics Optimum clip size is 640x480; Sample clips are not designed for full screen.

This video is the first in the much anticipated "Real Training Series" and can be useful to any martial artist from any style seeking to cultivate real internal power. This video teaches you how to develop Internal "fah jin" (********y explosive power) ability, sometimes known as "shockwave" ability, in your strikes! Utilizing digital slow motion of actual live speed movement and picture in picture technologies combined with multiple camera angles has created an in-depth and multi-faceted educational experience that is truly unique and revealing. You can actually see the origin and transmission of the wave like force as it ripples through the body. If you want to develop the kind of power that Internal Martial Arts have become famous for, this is a must have video for you!

Running time = 35 minutes.

All performances on video are of Shrfu Mike Patterson; two time All Taiwan Full Contact Chinese Kuoshu Fighting Champion; Trainer of 25 International & World Kuoshu Full Contact Champions 1994 - 2000; Chosen as Inside Kung Fu Magazine's Hall of Fame Coach of the Year 1996.

You are getting some serious material broken down using high level tech.

Again this DVD for the price is a steal.

[kfson]

FYI: This is the information on Shifu Patterson's website in relation to the DVD in question.

http://www.hsing-i.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=111&Product_Code=DVDRTIF1&Category_Code=IEx

Regular List Price for this title is: $39.95

For a reduced size sample clip of a small portion of the content found on this video, click the link below:
Internal Force Dynamics Optimum clip size is 640x480; Sample clips are not designed for full screen.

This video is the first in the much anticipated "Real Training Series" and can be useful to any martial artist from any style seeking to cultivate real internal power. This video teaches you how to develop Internal "fah jin" (********y explosive power) ability, sometimes known as "shockwave" ability, in your strikes! Utilizing digital slow motion of actual live speed movement and picture in picture technologies combined with multiple camera angles has created an in-depth and multi-faceted educational experience that is truly unique and revealing. You can actually see the origin and transmission of the wave like force as it ripples through the body. If you want to develop the kind of power that Internal Martial Arts have become famous for, this is a must have video for you!

Running time = 35 minutes.

All performances on video are of Shrfu Mike Patterson; two time All Taiwan Full Contact Chinese Kuoshu Fighting Champion; Trainer of 25 International & World Kuoshu Full Contact Champions 1994 - 2000; Chosen as Inside Kung Fu Magazine's Hall of Fame Coach of the Year 1996.

You are getting some serious material broken down using high level tech.

Again this DVD for the price is a steal.

Patterson has proven he has the fighting ability. You might have to wait years in a school to be exposed to this info.

[TenTigers]

I'm not always politically correct.
Sometimes, I'm just correct! :D

[goju]

to hell with wude. you try not eating for three days straight because you have no monies.

if anyone wants i can sell my instruction vcd (im too poor to make dvd) for only 15.99
or video casette for only 10.99

lol!!!:D:D

[Mike Patterson]

I read this thread with some bemusement.

We are quite proud of both Internal Force Dynamics 1 & Internal Force Dynamics 2. A great many hours was spent both in filming and post production. Vol. 1 uses picture in picture and very slow motion technology to accurately demonstrate wave force, something that as was pointed out, was not explained to me for many years when I studied. Vol. 2 uses animation overlay to depict ground path and both the load and release phase, again in slow motion. Something that again, took me years to learn.

This is my new direction in video.. bringing things out that are real. I see many people today, even teachers, that do not understand so much.

At the end of the day, I am trying to both archive and help to raise the level of awarness in the internal arts, something that is very dear to me.

Btw, we DO have sample clips for each video which are an amalgum of actual scenes from the video in question. You can always look at those and try to determine if the video is for you or not. That's sort of the idea behind the clips? :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I read this thread with some bemusement.

We are quite proud of both Internal Force Dynamics 1 & Internal Force Dynamics 2. A great many hours was spent both in filming and post production. Vol. 1 uses picture in picture and very slow motion technology to accurately demonstrate wave force, something that as was pointed out, was not explained to me for many years when I studied. Vol. 2 uses animation overlay to depict ground path and both the load and release phase, again in slow motion. Something that again, took me years to learn.

This is my new direction in video.. bringing things out that are real. I see many people today, even teachers, that do not understand so much.

At the end of the day, I am trying to both archive and help to raise the level of awarness in the internal arts, something that is very dear to me.

Btw, we DO have sample clips for each video which are an amalgum of actual scenes from the video in question. You can always look at those and try to determine if the video is for you or not. That's sort of the idea behind the clips? :)

And for those of us the appreciate it, I say Thank You !
Sometimes, in this world we live in, we tend to favor quantity over quality, so don't let it get you down.
Stick to your guns and focus on quality.
30 min of quality is better than 60 min of crap.

[lkfmdc]

Shihfu Patterson, I wouldn't be too bothered by the silliness. This guy also trashed my DVD and his comments showed that he had pretty much only watched like 5 minutes of it :D


I read this thread with some bemusement.

We are quite proud of both Internal Force Dynamics 1 & Internal Force Dynamics 2. A great many hours was spent both in filming and post production. Vol. 1 uses picture in picture and very slow motion technology to accurately demonstrate wave force, something that as was pointed out, was not explained to me for many years when I studied. Vol. 2 uses animation overlay to depict ground path and both the load and release phase, again in slow motion. Something that again, took me years to learn.

This is my new direction in video.. bringing things out that are real. I see many people today, even teachers, that do not understand so much.

At the end of the day, I am trying to both archive and help to raise the level of awarness in the internal arts, something that is very dear to me.

Btw, we DO have sample clips for each video which are an amalgum of actual scenes from the video in question. You can always look at those and try to determine if the video is for you or not. That's sort of the idea behind the clips? :)

[goju]

well....

http://openparachute.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/internet-cartoon.gif

http://static.railbirds.com/gallery/2009/08/69063internet_tough_guys.jpg

[Dale Dugas]

I read this thread with some bemusement.

We are quite proud of both Internal Force Dynamics 1 & Internal Force Dynamics 2. A great many hours was spent both in filming and post production. Vol. 1 uses picture in picture and very slow motion technology to accurately demonstrate wave force, something that as was pointed out, was not explained to me for many years when I studied. Vol. 2 uses animation overlay to depict ground path and both the load and release phase, again in slow motion. Something that again, took me years to learn.

This is my new direction in video.. bringing things out that are real. I see many people today, even teachers, that do not understand so much.

At the end of the day, I am trying to both archive and help to raise the level of awarness in the internal arts, something that is very dear to me.

Btw, we DO have sample clips for each video which are an amalgum of actual scenes from the video in question. You can always look at those and try to determine if the video is for you or not. That's sort of the idea behind the clips? :)


Shifu Patterson,

Thank you for coming on and giving us the lowdown on the material in question.

As I had mentioned. What is being presented is incredible material using the latest tech to explain it and demonstrate it.

I thank you sir.

[Mike Patterson]

Thanks for the comments fellas. But I'm "not bothered by the silliness" nor do I feel "put down" as a result of such. I generally seek only to clarify when reading such things.

Frost raised a good point. A person is entitled to question whether or not a commercial product is worth the price. Many people seem to feel you cannot learn anything of value from a video. Or at least I have been reading such statements on the internet for as long as the internet has been here. Of course I disagree.

Most of us, when learning in a classroom, only get to look at what our teachers do or demonstrate once or twice. It is only the seniors who generally get to actually touch the teacher. And there is no question in my mind that touching is best. However, and this is a big however, as TenTigers wisely said in this thread... with a DVD video, you can pause, watch frame by frame, etc. , as much as you wish as often as you wish. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I learned, getting my teacher to demonstrate more than a couple times was a fairly impossible task.

When I first contemplated doing video in the 80's (yes, I'm older than I look), I wondered whether I should do it or not for fear of showing too much. This is how I was raised in the arts you see... keep it secret. But, too many have died in the last 30 years and these arts are fading. My own teacher passed right around that same time of contemplation and my senior student at the time convinced me on the merit of archiving the knowledge gained to start doing just that.

So for those naysayers out there, my contention would be that you can indeed learn much from video. And I would have given anything to have my own teacher on such media doing all the forms, applications and exercises I learned over the years spent with him. And for those who do indeed have the eyes to see what is being portrayed, it can often even beat the once or twice demos done in class.

Then take that knowledge gleaned back to the practice floor and hone it until it's ingrained and applicable.

Happy Training Fellas! :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

The whole "show too much" thing is not something to worry about Sifu.
Guro Marc Denny of the DBMA has the same feelings, but he is right on a couple of points about it being the right thing to do:
1) Not everyone is lucky enough to have a great teacher and for those, giving up the goods not only keeps the good alive but allows those that can't get them, to get them.
2) those that are undeserving are, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant and because of them, one shouldn't let those that have a thrist for knowledge to go thirsty.
Besides, as you know, showing is part of the package, DOING is the other part and anyone that can get it AND do it from video is as deserving, if not more so, than someone that gets it in person.