New TWC?

[chusauli]

Looking at youtube and saw this new stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uycp3jF9tW4&feature=related

Are the TWC sets changing? Advanced Biu Jee now? ASLT looks different, too.

Andrew? Phil? Victor?

[Ultimatewingchun]

He added some extra bong sao moves in Advanced SLT...

...the moves on the Wooden Dummy that might not seem familiar to you are actually old...
ie.- (not new) moves....they appeared on the wooden dummy posters that William Cheung once sold waaay back in the beginning (1983-1984)....but when he started teaching the WD some of the moves you saw on this vid were left out...

Chum kiu was the same as always...

the "advanced" bil jee (never heard that term applied to bil jee before)...contained some stuff that seems new (for TWC forms anyway - not necessarily in the applications that have been taught through the years, such as the phoenix knuckle strikes)...

although the moves he did after the elbow strikes resembling some sort of a backfist I've never seen before.

And then there was the addition of the backwards moving mon sao - that was never in the form before...before he actually did the forward moving mon sao - which has always been in the form.

And of course there was the "closed door student" signature in the beginning concerning William Cheung's training under Yip man...

a phrase that is now used by William Cheung concerning some of what he's been teaching some folks in recent years (Keith Mazza was the first here in the U.S. - then Phil Redmond)...perhaps this Italian guy is another - I wouldn't know...but it's possible, I suppose.

[anerlich]

I wouldn't call it closed door stuff if it's up on Youtube.

I've not seen the multiple bon sections in ASLT before., though I have seen multiple versions of the form, also chum kil and especially bil jee.

Some of the dummy I haven't seen, but then I've seen and practised a LOT that isn't in the video as well.

William Cheung has a history of changing things over time. Not necessarily a bad thing, my instructor has done the same. Keeps you on your toes (figuratively speaking of course).

We've not been affiliated with the WWCKFA (if it's still called that) for nearly 15 years, so I can't really offer any more observations than this.

[Phil Redmond]

Where was the Gwai Mah in the Biu Jee form???:D

[duende]

Haha! Good one Phil :D. He must have missed that seminar. ;)

[Phil Redmond]

Haha! Good one Phil :D. He must have missed that seminar. ;)
Isn't a sense of humor great??? :D

[duende]

Isn't a sense of humor great??? :D

Most definitely! Life's waaaay to short and these interent forums are for fun! Not silly rants and one sided conversations.

Best to you.

[chusauli]

In the USA, TWC does not have the Gwai Ma section in Biu Jee...unless there are some new people who incorporated it...its the section prior to the Fut Sao Biu Sao section...

[duende]

Finally!! The great mystery is solved!!

If you do gwai ma in your biu gee in the United States then you aren't doing TWC! :eek: :D ;)

[chusauli]

Gwai Ma is in the Australian version of TWC...

[Phil Redmond]

In the USA, TWC does not have the Gwai Ma section in Biu Jee...unless there are some new people who incorporated it...its the section prior to the Fut Sao Biu Sao section...
Not true. Your statement is like me telling you what color shirt you have on now without being there.
Go here:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/
click on The System and you'll see the empty hand forms.
My student Sifu Ryan Kennedy of Toronto demonstrates "one" version of the Gwai Mah in the empty hands section of my website.
I've been aware of the Gwai Mah since the 83 where Sifu Cheung taught it at the L.A. seminar against an Iron Broom. So has Sifu Flood of Bermuda and Sifu Don Schouten of Holland and Sifu Mazza, and my students and,. . . I could go on. At a 2006 L.A. seminar Sifu said we could start teaching it again.
I wonder how many people know of the elbows in ASLT ;)

[anerlich]

Gwai Ma is in the Australian version of TWC...

I believe differences to be temporal rather than regional.

[Phil Redmond]

I believe differences to be temporal rather than regional.
Wow, for a kung fu jock you're very literate, (and accurate). :D

[JPinAZ]

My student Sifu Ryan Kennedy of Toronto demonstrates "one" version of the Gwai Mah in the empty hands section of my website.

That's Canada. Close, but still not USA :p

[Phil Redmond]

That's Canada. Close, but still not USA :p
Nice one, but he learned from a Yank (Me) . . . :cool:

[Lee Chiang Po]

Looking at youtube and saw this new stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uycp3jF9tW4&feature=related

Are the TWC sets changing? Advanced Biu Jee now? ASLT looks different, too.

Andrew? Phil? Victor?


Since there are about 16,000 different lineages and styles of wing chun I couldn't say if it was new or not. All I can say is that I feel that it is in really poor form. Like many people he seems to be just following a routine of movements without thinking about it much. Sil Lim is about gaining true form in each individual technique that is done within the form. You don't just stand and stare into space while your body follows learned routine like a dance or some such.

[duende]

Wow... 16,000 different lineages! Care to recite 50? ;).

[chusauli]

Nice one, but he learned from a Yank (Me) . . . :cool:

That Gwai Ma section is still somewhat different than what Rick Spain showed me. :confused:

[Ultimatewingchun]

Perhaps you can show us what you learned from Rick Spain ???

[chusauli]

I am not a good representative of Rick Spain. Rick Spain and his students could show you. Andrew probably could.

[anerlich]

Perhaps I could ... if I knew what Gwai Ma meant :eek:

[duende]

Perhaps I could ... if I knew what Gwai Ma meant :eek:

Obviously it means kneeling Kangaroo! You sure your from Australia? :D

[Lee Chiang Po]

Wow... 16,000 different lineages! Care to recite 50? ;).

I can't recite more than a couple, but in the last year or so I have seen an awesome number of different Wing Chun lineages. From just about every country in the world. Somebody will post a new utube video showing some obscure WC lineage every now and then. If you keep count you might exceed 16,000.

[Phil Redmond]

Perhaps I could ... if I knew what Gwai Ma meant :eek:
Gwai = kneeling. Mah = Horse

[Phil Redmond]

That Gwai Ma section is still somewhat different than what Rick Spain showed me. :confused:
In my post I wrote . . . "demonstrates "one" version of the Gwai Mah . . . .:)

[Phil Redmond]

Gwai Ma is in the Australian version of TWC...
I’m presently rehearsing the role of Master Qu Yang of the Sun Moon Cult in the Wuxia play “Laughing in the Wind”
http://newsblaze.com/story/20100322152901jnyc.nb/topstory.html
I studied acting years ago briefly from Stella Adler. Does my little bit of acting training make me an expert?
The same goes for a "little" knowledge of any particular branch of Wing Chun. ;)

[anerlich]

I do a pak/tseun to set up the first kneeling stance, and a bil/tseun to set up the second. I don't step back quite as far as Ryan Kennedy does while dropping to the "hood ornament stance", either.

This is a statement of differences, no criticism implied.

[anerlich]

Obviously it means kneeling Kangaroo! You sure your from Australia? :D

Kangaroos don't kneel ... but for that matter I don't think horses do either :D

[anerlich]

FWIW, I thought Ryan Kennedy's execution of bil jee was better than that of the European guy in the OP's vid ... Ryan made sure he got complete extension on every technique, the other guy seemed to be shortening techniques for the sake of speed, especially the kicks.

Feel free to argue or disagree.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Agree, Ryan's rendition was much better.

[duende]

Kangaroos don't kneel ... but for that matter I don't think horses do either :D

Actually they can.. They can also skip rope and prance backwards (which looks scaringly similar to MJ's moonwalk). If you ever get a chance to see a real traditional Mariachi performance in Mexico, you'll see first hand what I'm talking about. :)

[anerlich]

Actually they can.. They can also skip rope and prance backwards (which looks scaringly similar to MJ's moonwalk). If you ever get a chance to see a real traditional Mariachi performance in Mexico, you'll see first hand what I'm talking about. :)

You can tell I live in a city, can't you? :o

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I had the opportunity to see the Lippizan Horses perform and I must say it was impressive. I do recall seeing them kneel at one point in the show although I do not remember why. Most of the movements had to do with battle and were mainly raising up on the hind legs to see better, if I recall correctly.

All in all a wonderful show. :D

I know nothing about the Kangaroo, other than watching them in the zoo or seeing Kangaroo Jack. Accoding to that movie they are smarter than many people, particularily as evidenced by some of the posts on this forum :p

[duende]

You can tell I live in a city, can't you? :o

No sweat, I'm pretty much a city boy myself these days.

Dave.. I'll have to check out a Lippizan horse show one of these days too. Thanks for the tip.

[bennyvt]

they don't kneel that i know of. They lean forward and their knees nearly touch the ground when they move slow but i have never heard of them kneeling.

[Sihing73]

they don't kneel that i know of. They lean forward and their knees nearly touch the ground when they move slow but i have never heard of them kneeling.

Hi Benny,

Got to: http://www.lipizzaner.com/home.asp

There is at least one pic in the photo gallery where at least one horse has a leg bent at the knee on the ground. I am not sure, but I would say this qualifies as kneeling. ;)

[goju]

sooooooooooo.... this is the kangaroo thread now?:D

[Vajramusti]

From Goju's signature line:

The Internet: A place where your inner retard can run wild.

Often true!

[Ultimatewingchun]

Just noticed this on the vid recently posted on another thread (From Ip Man to Bruce Lee)...

and it blew my mind!

It's on part 1 of the vids that Dan Insanto made concerning this topic...if you pick it up at about...

1:50 of the vid, Dan starts talking about Bruce Lee's early days training wing chun in Hong Kong at Yip Man's school - and how Yip Man assigned William Cheung and Wong Shun Leung to train Bruce.

And then we see two very early photos of William Cheung (he's clearly still a teenager)...and in the first photo...

he's posing in the TWC neutral side (body) stance, with the hands positioned on the right side of the central line - in front of his right chest/pectoral muscle...

and not on his main centerline !!!!

Very interesting, Watson...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxr0s1zCyl8

[YungChun]

And then we see two very early photos of William Cheung (he's clearly still a teenager)...and in the first photo...

he's posing in the TWC neutral side (body) stance, with the hands positioned on the right side of the central line - in front of his right chest/pectoral muscle...

and not on his main centerline !!!!


Not really what I see..

I see the plain vanilla jong sao, right on 'the line' but with him slightly bladed, he appears weighted evenly and you can't see the stance at all... A far cry IMO from the NSS we see later, but again the stance is really out of the frame. To me it just looks like a natural adaption of the standard JS ready position.

[bennyvt]

si-hing I meant the kangaroo not the horse:D