General vs. Specific Training and the Fat White Dude Syndrome

[Eric Olson]

It occurred to me riding home on the subway today that "the fat white dude syndrome" in martial arts is related to a problem in the emphasis in training. What I mean is that they are training specific skills (eg eye pokes, throat strikes, etc) to the exclusion of a more general fitness program (ie cardio, stamina, flexibility, tone, etc).

Then someone comes along that is more generally fit, but has less training and cleans their clock...come on, it's happened to us all.

Which leads naturally to the next question: As a martial pracitioner, how much time should you devote to general vs. specific training? What kind of general training would you include?

My guess is that general conditioning/training should form the bulk of any martial artist's schedule (eg running, lifting, body weight exercises, etc.) and more specific training of techniques and skills would be the minority.

I'm curious how people approach this subject, especially as martial arts can vary widely in how they define "general fitness" or "general conditioning."

EO

[Dragonzbane76]

I always gauge that overall fitness should come at the top and martial second. If you can't even perform the techniques because you are out of shape then why bother. Cardio and stamina should come before hand in my book.


"the fat white dude syndrome" in martial arts is related to a problem in the emphasis in training. What I mean is that they are training specific skills (eg eye pokes, throat strikes, etc) to the exclusion of a more general fitness program (ie cardio, stamina, flexibility, tone, etc).

this reminds me of a certain someone on the board here. lol of course i've never met said person but i can only picture him being this way.

[SPJ]

if your goal is to lose weight

1. general physical activity: jogging, swimming, running etc

2. for me, singing and dancing,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kdtqs-JjUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7pmwqDLxU0

growing up seeing my older cousins singing and dancing

I sang and danced, too

For MA functions:

3. each style has specific exercise to warm up or relaxation

the ones that I do everyday are from tong bei and some tai chi.

4. overall fitness and health as pointed out is most important

5. certain type of CMA drills if not done correctly and gradually, actually they are harmful to your body and health

---

everything is done step by step or in stages or progressively

no instant results for both health maintenance and MA skills achievements.

--
:)

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqgtsai2aKY&feature=related

when I was a little boy in the 60s.

I thought the song is about running

do run run run do run run--

later I knew it is not.

I used to run a lot--

with a pair of good shoes, we may all run to burn the calorie and stay fit--

---

[kfson]

It occurred to me...


Well Eric, you must be a Swede.

I've put most of my form practice on the back burner to develop strength and flexibility... weights, yoga, and stair climber cardio.
Why, injuries from lack of flexibility and lack of strength had a part in that.

I've seen ultra flexible fellow students take stiff senior students to the mat... that was an eye opener.

[Frost]

That’s the great thing about the combat sports; you train technique and fitness at the same time :)

But health should always be your number one reason for training, a healthy heart, good immune system and healthy joints must always be your reason for training and your training split should reflect this

Personally i do between 5 and 7 hours MMA/grapping training as week. 1 ½ to 2 hours strength training and around 2 hours cardio training (this does not take into account the daily walks with my dog, helping friends train etc)

[David Jamieson]

The adipose are not restricted from learning martial arts and frankly, physical fitness of a high degree is not required to turn someones lights out and fitness doesn't translate out as martial ability or skill either.

I've seen obese people clock young healthy and strong guys with ease.
I've seen fat guys press fit guys against a wall and smash their lights out.

If you get all caught up in what you look like, then go do bodybuilding or something.

You should be as fit as your ability requires you to be when it comes to martial arts.

If you are into competitive mma, then you will not do well if you are not keeping your fitness up.

If you are learning how to cut someone with a machete, I don't see the point of how fitness is going to make you better at that. lol

don't get me wrong, I support being fit and healthy and good diet and all that, but I have also been exposed to enough now that I know that martial arts skill and ability frequently has nothing to do with an ideal of fitness that is given to us by the Tony Hortons of the world. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just like general skill begets specific skill, general fitness begets specific fitness and general training begets specific training.

[goju]

eh i just do what i do and thats what i do

lol:D:p

[David Jamieson]

eh i just do what i do and thats what i do

lol:D:p

in my opinion you have the correct attitude.

[TaichiMantis]

Then someone comes along that is more generally fit, but has less training and cleans their clock...come on, it's happened to us all. EO

www.livestrong.com is a good website where you can track training, diet, meds. I just rejoined, have to start tracking again...:o

[David Jamieson]

Well, it hasn't happened to us all either. :)

It may have happened to some of us, but not all.

[Cappadonna]

i can't take any "masters" seriously that have a fat gut.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i can't take any "masters" seriously that have a fat gut.

Your loss.

Carlson Gracie jr:
http://www.usadojo.com/Images/carlson-gracie-sr.jpg

[kfson]

The adipose are not restricted from learning martial arts and frankly, physical fitness of a high degree is not required to turn someones lights out and fitness doesn't translate out as martial ability or skill either.

I've seen obese people clock young healthy and strong guys with ease.
I've seen fat guys press fit guys against a wall and smash their lights out.

If you get all caught up in what you look like, then go do bodybuilding or something.

You should be as fit as your ability requires you to be when it comes to martial arts.

If you are into competitive mma, then you will not do well if you are not keeping your fitness up.

If you are learning how to cut someone with a machete, I don't see the point of how fitness is going to make you better at that. lol

don't get me wrong, I support being fit and healthy and good diet and all that, but I have also been exposed to enough now that I know that martial arts skill and ability frequently has nothing to do with an ideal of fitness that is given to us by the Tony Hortons of the world. :)

Well, I had to look up adipose and Tony Horton.

Maybe, fitness and health, here, should be further defined.

Wang Shu Jin
http://www.wudangalberto.com/wang01.jpg

[David Jamieson]

i can't take any "masters" seriously that have a fat gut.

your prejudice will only limit your own access.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Athletes come in all shapes and sizes:
http://strippeddownhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/powerliftercropped.jpg


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2002/expo27.jpg

[David Jamieson]

http://www.steveklotz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/fathletes.jpg

:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

In Japan, a "nice gut" is much revered !
It is sign of strong HARA !!

[Lucas]

i would train with samo hung in a heart beat. once was at gregory fongs when randy choi came up, hes got a taiji gut, he would break a lot of people. his forearms and wrists didnt seem human lol.

[Drake]

I think people confuse rail thin people with actual levels of fitness. Skinny is not necessarily in shape, and may even reveal a lack of muscular strength and endurance.

It's also not about "how you look". Many of the magazine cover models are exactly that... models. They are under a strict diet and require a full time exercise program simply to keep their jobs. In shape people come in all shapes and sizes. Babe Ruth, for example, was in great shape, but was barrel chested. I've already stated that BMI is a terrible way to measure obesity, but honestly, if your gut is hanging over your belt, then you may want to reconsider your current fitness plan and diet.

All things considered, however, there are a lot of fat white instructors out there, and they present a poor example to students, especially if they say their art is a physical one.

It's not about looking good. It's about having the endurance to last in combat, to avoid disease, to present yourself as an example for your students, and to be in the shape that we, as humans, are supposed to be in.

Can an obese person knock someone's lights out? Sure. But he has better do it quickly, because he won't last long without a proper degree of fitness.

[YouKnowWho]

My guess is that general conditioning/training should form the bulk of any martial artist's schedule (eg running, lifting, body weight exercises, etc.) and more specific training of techniques and skills would be the minority.
The general training will not give direct result to your MA skill but the specific training will. Hitting on the heavy bag will build your strong punch better than your bench pressing. I love running. Everytime when I run my 5 miles, I always feel a bit guilty. Maybe I should spend the same amount time work on my heavy bag instead. I do believe 1 hour working on the heavy bag can give me the same reasult as running for 1 hour. The difference is heavy bag work out will give me "direct" benefit for my MA ability, the running will give me "indirect" benefit instead.

None of the general training can help me to develop my "head lock" but the special training "tree hanging" will. This is why the "general training" can never replace the "special training" IMO.

This is my favor "special training".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqnQj1Lx02Y

[kfson]

Have we had a response from the Shaolin people?

[Lucas]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/images/ezine/goulin.jpg

[kfson]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/images/ezine/goulin.jpg

Though this man has something of a tai chi belly, he appears to have much flexibility and strength... which helps to keep him from being hurt or hurting himself.

[Drake]

Yep... and I bet he has a bit of strength to boot. Based on about ten years of doing bodyfat calculations, I am willing to bet he isn't past the obese level.

[Lucas]

definately. but he is a stocky husky kind of guy. it seems to just be his body type. he is surely not a thin person though, but likely this is genetic predisposition in combination with his training.

samo hung could still break out backflips even being overweight when he was younger.

like a lot of people have said there is a sure difference in being 'overweight' healthy vs 'overweight' unhealthy.

also if you are overweight healthy, the overweight issue may be a matter of other peoples perception. for your genetic make up, you may be the correct weight. as long as you are healthy and not living to excess with your diet.

[Drake]

definately. but he is a stocky husky kind of guy. it seems to just be his body type. he is surely not a thin person though, but likely this is genetic predisposition in combination with his training.

samo hung could still break out backflips even being overweight when he was younger.

like a lot of people have said there is a sure difference in being 'overweight' healthy vs 'overweight' unhealthy.

also if you are overweight healthy, the overweight issue may be a matter of other peoples perception. for your genetic make up, you may be the correct weight. as long as you are healthy and not living to excess with your diet.

Right, and for that reason, people are moving away from the whole weight vs height calculations, because they don't apply.

[Lucas]

Right, and for that reason, people are moving away from the whole weight vs height calculations, because they don't apply.

i also think about that before mass media gave us images of what 'perfect health' should look like, historically, having extra weight was considered a sign of prosperity and often good health. so again the perception of people at large will often dictate what we 'view' as correct. However the facts of the matter, as we all know, dont always coincide with widely held belief.

oh i am a thin person for the record, but have met many people who are very healthy yet of larger proportion.

[KC Elbows]

If we're talking the US, people are fat more from diet than anything else. The fact is, mass doesn't come from nowhere, you have to bring it in. I know a ton of fat construction workers who work pretty hard, but they eat more than they need in every meal.

Plus, once morbid obesity sets in, working out becomes difficult.

It seems that the combination of being an American and wearing a gi is dangerous. If a belt no longer defines where your waist is, but where your equator is, you may be able to crush me with your mass, but I've got a wafer thin mint...

[Yum Cha]

your loss.

Carlson gracie jr:
http://www.usadojo.com/images/carlson-gracie-sr.jpg


rotfl!!:d:d:d

[Jimbo]

I've known many people who don't look in top shape, aren't "ripped" and don't have washboard abs or chiseled muscles, yet are in surprisingly good condition, including good stamina, speed, technique, power, and flexibility. Of course, none of them were "obese", but they sure wouldn't make the cover of GQ, either.

Many people who advocate being in top physical condition at all times don't seem to realize that the body changes as you age. While conditioning is always advantageous at any age, if possible, nobody can maintain peak conditioning for prolonged periods. Not even top pro athletes. Other things can come along too, such as more responsibilities, injuries that can affect how you train, and interests outside of MA, which means that all of one's spare time is no longer devoted to just training.

I'm 46 and am still in good shape, but I can't (and am no longer inclined to) train as I did from my teens throughout my 20s. Some things in life can cause even lifelong MAists to rethink the role of MA in their lives. In my 20s, MA training and conditioning were almost all I did in my free time. I ended up missing out on a lot of other things as a result, something I've since been making up.

As for doing a lot of cardio like running; if you run a lot, you will get very good at running. Even incorporating wind sprints into it, it's still not the same as sparring or fighting. You could still gas out, because they aren't the same activity. There is some crossover benefit, like faster recovery time, though.

Anyway, just my .02.

[YouKnowWho]

If you just do 60 sit up daily, you will never have fat belly. How hard can that be? If you have fat belly, that means you are lazy which is a NO NO in MA training. If you are lazy, you are not qualified to be called as "master" no matter what style that you train.

All MA guys want to be in top shape because they don't know when their next fight will come. We don't have the luxury to be "out of shape". You train all your life and one day a 20 years old knocks you down. That will be the time that you get a rope, find a quite place, and hang yourself.

[SPJ]

If you just do 60 sit up daily, you will never have fat belly. How hard can that be? If you have fat belly, that means you are lazy which is a NO NO in MA training. If you are lazy, you are not qualified to be called as "master" no matter what style that you train.

All MA guys want to be in top shape because they don't know when their next fight will come. We don't have the luxury to be "out of shape". You train all your life and one day a 20 years old knocks you down. That will be the time that you get a rope, find a quite place, and hang yourself.

yes. however, day jobs and family matters would really take up most of our time.

:cool:

[YouKnowWho]

Nobody can be that busy that he can't find time to do just 60 sit up. I always do my 60 situp before I get off my bed in the morning.

[goju]

the majority of those guys arent fat too me they are just stocky

i think the guy earlier meant a full bown fat ass

and i dont blame him i wouldnt bother with one either

[Scott R. Brown]

Nobody can be that busy that he can't find time to do just 60 sit up. I always do my 60 situp before I get off my bed in the morning.

Interesting, I usually do 60 pullups/chins before I go to bed in the morning!:)

[Drake]

yes. however, day jobs and family matters would really take up most of our time.

:cool:

You can do it in under two minutes. I've clocked in at 78 in two minutes, and I'm not even that great at them.

[Scott R. Brown]

You can do it in under two minutes. I've clocked in at 78 in two minutes, and I'm not even that great at them.

Show off!!:eek::D

I do 4 exercises 2 warm ups 3 work sets one minute rest between sets in 30 mins.

If you do a two or a three day split, depending upon how many exercises you want to do per body part, you can do your whole body in two or three days with only 30 min workouts.

[Drake]

Show off!!:eek::D

I do 4 exercises 2 warm ups 3 work sets one minute rest between sets in 30 mins.

If you do a two or a three day split, depending upon how many exercises you want to do per body part, you can do your whole body in two or three days with only 30 min workouts.

Yah, but my lats are weak as all hell. I'm also having trouble running at altitude here. I clocked in at a 14:02 two mile run, and it was largely downhill, AND it wasn't even a full two miles according to my Garmin (which counted it at 1.88mi).

My kicks also suck. My hammies are terribly inflexible.

[Scott R. Brown]

Yah, but my lats are weak as all hell. I'm also having trouble running at altitude here. I clocked in at a 14:02 two mile run, and it was largely downhill, AND it wasn't even a full two miles according to my Garmin (which counted it at 1.88mi).

My kicks also suck. My hammies are terribly inflexible.

Yeah I remember when I moved to an area a mile high. It kills your running. If you stretch everyday after your run, I used to stretch for an hour after my runs, your flexibility will improve greatly. Of course you don't have to stretch that long, 15 mins or so is fine for most people.

[Scott R. Brown]

....actually 7 min miles for a general training run is not too bad, especially at altitude, it might not be great for only two miles or for a person who focuses on running as their primary sport acitivity, but for a person who runs as an adjunct to MA training it is acceptable.

[YouKnowWho]

I know that I no longer run 7 minutes per mile. As long as I can still run 5 miles none stop, I can't complain too much for my age of 63.

[Scott R. Brown]

I know that I no longer run 7 minutes per mile. As long as I can still run 5 miles none stop, I can't complain too much for my age of 63.

I agree with you there!:)

[KC Elbows]

If you just do 60 sit up daily, you will never have fat belly.

This isn't true. It is not hard to eat enough that 60 sit-ups won't burn it off. You'll have a decent core, but it can still be fat.

[David Jamieson]

I think mostly it has to do with exposure and experience.
The people that have the greatest difficulty with body image are young men and women.

There's always an egotistical concern and a lack of understanding of the truth of the human body which is extremely varied.

as for4 fitness, consider this, overall population, less than 10 percent of it in any country can run 3 miles. :)

so, you can look great and be a weakling, uncoordinated and unfit despite your nice looks. :p

[Drake]

I think mostly it has to do with exposure and experience.
The people that have the greatest difficulty with body image are young men and women.

There's always an egotistical concern and a lack of understanding of the truth of the human body which is extremely varied.

as for4 fitness, consider this, overall population, less than 10 percent of it in any country can run 3 miles. :)

so, you can look great and be a weakling, uncoordinated and unfit despite your nice looks. :p

Skinny isn't necessarily fit, and low weight, while rare, is just as much of a disease as obesity.

My concerns aren't egotistical in nature. If "looking good" means being in the shape we are designed for as creatures, then hey... looking good can take many forms and sizes ranging from pencil shaped bodies to rotund, barrel chested balls of muscle. Rolls of fat hanging off of a gi does not fall into that category.

We have many soldiers who do not make the weight table, but we all laugh when they come in for body fat measurements, because they are more ripped than us. We also pick on the Pacific Islanders, because their huge necks, which factor into the measurements, gets them through every time.

[bawang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdVd4sYcXOE

[kfson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdVd4sYcXOE

I hope I can be as this man at his age, amazing... and it's not a "soft" style.

[Drake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdVd4sYcXOE

Now hold on.. could you be suggesting that training hard alone could keep you strong and fit, even into old age? Outlandish! :D

[bawang]

drake
u do realize most of the people on this internet forum arguing against u are obese themselves.
and most of them admitted on another thread they train 1 to 3 hour ish a week.

my opinion is being a little fat is ok, who cares.
but if ur a complete fatass, please dude contact me i have no monies for food take me wit u when u go eating

[Drake]

drake
u do realize most of the people on this internet forum arguing against u are obese themselves.
and most of them admitted on another thread they train 1 to 3 hour ish a week.


my opinion is being a little fat is ok, who cares.
but if ur a complete fatass, please dude contact me i have no monies for food take me wit u when u go eating

Exactly! You can't expect everyone to be ripped. But is it so foolish to think that someone who trains in a physical art to NOT be obese?

[bawang]

i dont know what most people are doing for training. but doing forms is not training.
i am also lazy and out of shape but i excercise every morning.

[goju]

Now hold on.. could you be suggesting that training hard alone could keep you strong and fit, even into old age? Outlandish! :D

alot of the old okinawan martial artists are like that

they seem to retain their power and speed and skill more so than any of other martial artists

[bawang]

i think we should not admire them for doing what we all are supposed to be doing in the first place.

they train hard

i feel ashamed because i make too many internet forum messages. im going to train bye

[Drake]

i think we should not admire them for doing what we all are supposed to be doing in the first place.

they train hard

i feel ashamed because i make too many internet forum messages. im going to train bye

You and me both.

[SPJ]

yes. moderate exercise and eating properly may make us stay fit

however, obesity and distribution of body fat are also determined by genetics.

I have a friend, no matter how much meat or fat he eats, he is just skinny or slim.

I have another friend, he just drinks water and eats bread only and jogs all the time

he is obese no matter what--

---

:eek:

[Pork Chop]

www.livestrong.com is a good website where you can track training, diet, meds. I just rejoined, have to start tracking again...:o

doing weight watchers at the moment coz i'm just plain sick of being big
but i love the livestrong site and i still use it daily to fill in the gaps of the weight watchers online tools.

[Pork Chop]

This isn't true. It is not hard to eat enough that 60 sit-ups won't burn it off. You'll have a decent core, but it can still be fat.

I agree
Last year I was doing over 75 a day as part of a much larger routine and still had the same love handles. 10 or 20lbs lighter, yes, but still belly.

ps
i'm built similarly to shi guolin - maybe skinnier wrists & ankles, longer legs, and a little more muscle in certain places; but definitely comparable.
Obese by bf%age is 25.
I'd say Guolin and I probably have in the low to mid 20s.

[Drake]

yes. moderate exercise and eating properly may make us stay fit

however, obesity and distribution of body fat are also determined by genetics.

I have a friend, no matter how much meat or fat he eats, he is just skinny or slim.

I have another friend, he just drinks water and eats bread only and jogs all the time

he is obese no matter what--

---

:eek:

SPJ,
Absolutely incorrect. Genetic can determine your body type, but obesity is self inflicted, unless you have an actual thyroid problem. I am going to call BS on your friend who drinks water and only eats bread, yet is obese (something I HIGHLY doubt, as he'd be either dead or suffering from nutritional diseases by now). That fails even the scientific aspect. If he burns 700 calories running, and takes in only 400 calories eating, then pray tell how is possible to be obese? If anything, he'd be a medical risk due to lack of nutrition. Simply put... I don't believe it, because it isn't possible.

[Drake]

I agree
Last year I was doing over 75 a day as part of a much larger routine and still had the same love handles. 10 or 20lbs lighter, yes, but still belly.

ps
i'm built similarly to shi guolin - maybe skinnier wrists & ankles, longer legs, and a little more muscle in certain places; but definitely comparable.
Obese by bf%age is 25.
I'd say Guolin and I probably have in the low to mid 20s.

Love handles are a pain to get rid of. That's usually the absolute last place to lose fat when you are losing weight. So, while your composition was likely favorably muscular and you were generally in good health, you probably still couldn't shake those things. They are the last holdouts.

[SPJ]

SPJ,
Absolutely incorrect. Genetic can determine your body type, but obesity is self inflicted, unless you have an actual thyroid problem. I am going to call BS on your friend who drinks water and only eats bread, yet is obese (something I HIGHLY doubt, as he'd be either dead or suffering from nutritional diseases by now). That fails even the scientific aspect. If he burns 700 calories running, and takes in only 400 calories eating, then pray tell how is possible to be obese? If anything, he'd be a medical risk due to lack of nutrition. Simply put... I don't believe it, because it isn't possible.

maybe my friend also eats something else. or some how he is overweight.

my point is that for some people it may be easier to gain weight, for some people it may not be as easy or prone to.

may be due to working more or more rigorous daily activities--

in a similar vein, it may be easier for some people to lose weight

it may be more difficult for some people to lose weight--

genetic or not are all pieces of the puzzles.

I am simply pointing out there are more factors than just eating (gaining calorie) and working out (burning calories)

---

[Pork Chop]

Love handles are a pain to get rid of. That's usually the absolute last place to lose fat when you are losing weight. So, while your composition was likely favorably muscular and you were generally in good health, you probably still couldn't shake those things. They are the last holdouts.

Well, my problem was not quite limited to love handles.
Lowest I got down to was 220 and I really shouldn't be over 200; but working out like a maniac, not drinking, and eating somewhat healthy weren't getting me there.

That's why this year i'm re-prioritizing it. I also have time constraints this year that don't let me hit the gym as often (let alone 3 different gyms a day).

Diet comes first and whatever exercise I can manage comes after that.

I know it's possible to eventually drop to the weight I'm looking for.
I just can't quite burn the candle from both ends anymore; at least not to the same extent that I once did.

Weight loss is not going to happen without a proper calorie deficit and I can't get there from working out alone, especially considering how quick my body breaks down these days.
So food's gotta come first.
I'll find my way back to the gym as my energy levels allow.

Went to the zoo today and nearly passed out.
My eating's been geared towards weight loss based on a sedentary lifestyle.
The diet actually hasn't been bothering me much - I haven't felt all that hungry.
But even something as simple as lugging my kid around the zoo in beautiful weather was a lot more than my body was ready for, given the amount of calories I've been eating.

Can't imagine surviving my old marathon workouts given my current intake.
I'm sure in time I'll adjust.

If you define physical fitness by what you're capable of in the gym, then I can definitely say that while I'm losing weight & eating "healthy", I was a lot more fit when I was fat and eating what I wanted.

[Drake]

Sounds like neither. Being sedentary and eating next to nothing is a dangerous way to lose weight, as you discovered at the Zoo. It certainly isn't healthy. You should have worked in a plan that changed your diet to cause a GRADUAL weight loss while maintaining your muscle mass. Too many people want to nosedive with their weight loss, when the best solution is a slow, controlled loss of fat while retaining muscle. You know, swapping out Twinkies for bananas, cheeseburgers for roasted chicken, etc etc.

[Pork Chop]

Actually, if you saw what I'm doing right now, you probably wouldn't think it was crazy. I'm on something that's well established, proven, and supervised.

And yes, I have to eat like I'm sedentary. I work 10 to 13 hour days lately, with nightly studying to do at home, while trying desperately to see my kid every once in a while.

The last week or so, if I was hungry I just ate, I have not been dying of hunger pains like I do on starvation diets, and my nutrients are pretty well covered. Believe me, if I was starving myself, my wife would be throwing a sh!t fit and I wouldn't stick to it for more than a day or two.

I just wasn't quite ready for walking around for hours, while carrying a 20lb kid, on a bright, sunny day, with a nice sprint at the end to make it to the parking garage before my car was towed. It was the first time I've been light headed since starting what I'm doing. I'll make sure I bring an apple next time.

[KC Elbows]

One thing that made a huge difference for me as far as getting rid of love handles was swimming, I'm not certain why. I had been losing weight gradually for a couple years, healthy weight loss, slowly improving and gradually diversified diet, this sort of thing.

Anyhoo, I was deathly afraid of water, so I took a swim class and a water polo class at the university. For the most part, until the end of the class, I was mostly practicing treading water in the water polo claqss, pretty quickly getting to the point where 15 minutes was perfectly comfortable to tread for, then taking part a bit more. In water polo, you have to really drive with your legs for taking shots, so that your throwing arm rises above the water.

That was in September, now I swim twice a week for 800 meters each. This was mostly a way to workout more without straining my knee too much. Anyway, the kicks come off the core and at many different angles even through one kick, so it's pretty good for hitting the core.

[David Jamieson]

I took those love handles and I threw it on the ground!!

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzifVRyMkMs

just wanted to point out

you would lose a lot of cal on the dance floor.

make sure the place is very well ventilated and bring along lots of water.

since you would be sweating in no time.

:)

[kfson]

Besides genetic influence, doesn't fat accumulate on certain parts of the body because of weakness or imbalance of certain organs and/or glands?

[Drake]

Besides genetic influence, doesn't fat accumulate on certain parts of the body because of weakness or imbalance of certain organs and/or glands?

Yes, but it does strike a remarkably low percentage of the population.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Every one has a natural 'sweet zone" when it comes to weight.
Some guys are naturally thin and other naturally stocky.
But of course you can change that through consistent exercise and diet, the issue is when you do so you are not being "natural".
If you naturally are a 180 pounder ( that means you weight in and around 180 without exercise and without diet), but you stay at 165 with diet and exercise ( or at 200 with diet and exercise),the moment you stop the diet and exercise you will go back up ( or down) to 180+_.
You need to be comfortable with your natural weight and realize that depending on your activity level and diet, it will change.
I am 172lbs right now, at a height of 5'-6", I am short and stocky.
I can also run the 100 in less than 11 seconds, deadlift 360lbs for reps, Dips with 100lbs for reps and chins with 35lbs for reps.
I am not ripped ( though it doesn't take much to lose 10lbs or more if I want) and I have a nice "power belly", LOL !
But I also can take full force kicks and punches there with out much effort.

When I am doing a cycle in which I am doing more cardio and I am far more active, I go down to a ripped 160 without much effort.

Of course when I was younger my natural walking weight was around 155-160, as we get older, unless kept in place by consistent "fat burning", our natural weight tends to increase.

It is scientifically know as the "pizza factor".
:D

[David Jamieson]

Ok, let's take a critical look at fat black dudes, fat yellow dudes and fat red dudes.

No shortage on any of those. And for the fat yellow dudes, throw in enthusiastic smoker as well. lol

quit baggin on white folks. lol