Kajukenbo

[MightyB]

What do you guys think about it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvIO-sQMH04.

It's kind've a CMA - seen a clip where a guy was doing a darn dao form. Interesting concept for a MA.

[David Jamieson]

distinctly americanized stew of asian martial arts.

[hskwarrior]

Some of Professor Lau Bun's CLF is found in Kajukenbo. Professor Emperado picked a few things up from him. See Here (http://www.kajupit.com/kajukenbo.htm) as well as some other CLF masters.


distinctly americanized stew of asian martial arts

although it's still america, Kajukenbo is more of a hawaiian style martial art.

[David Jamieson]

Some of Professor Lau Bun's CLF is found in Kajukenbo. Professor Emperado picked a few things up from him. See Here (http://www.kajupit.com/kajukenbo.htm) as well as some other CLF masters.



although it's still america, Kajukenbo is more of a hawaiian style martial art.

If I recall correctly, Hawaii is America. lol :p

[goju]

looks lke crap to me lol

[GeneChing]

It would be a shame to discount the contribution of Kajukenbo to the progress of Chinese martial arts in America. GM Al Novak discusses its impact in my recent 2010 January/February (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=862) cover story Great American Great Grandmaster (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=871). See also our 1995 Spring issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=46) cover story From the Strength of Many: Kajukenbo's Classic Blend produces a Deadly Street System (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=47) by Nes Fernandez and Marie Sanchez.

Also see our TCMedia produced DVD series: Kajukenbo Self-Defense Vol. 1 to 5 (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-jh00.html) :cool:

[Lucas]

i liked the kajukenbo episode on fight quest. looked like fun.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kajukenbo is great, the first real MMA.
They love to fight, you gotta love that.

[David Jamieson]

looks lke crap to me lol

why? It's pretty innovative even now.

[goju]

why? It's pretty innovative even now.

well for example take the fight quest episode

the techniques they showed them were completely unrealistic

it was similar to the "kenpo hands" where you punch me me once i block and you stand in a stationary position with your hand hanging out while i hit you with dozens of kicks and punches lol

their multiple opponent attack scenarios were even worse

they didnt teach the hosts to move and not stay in the pocket and swing if youre attacked by more than one person

which you think would be obvious

and in the final fights the kajukenbo students were very out of shape and gassing and used nothing of their style and just resorted to wild swinging

the art strikes me as beinga hodge podge of this and that from people who didnt study various arts in depth

[Dale Dugas]

If you have questions, visit them and ask them to demo it for you.

I know they will be very happy for you to feel first hand what they can do.

[David Jamieson]

well for example take the fight quest episode

the techniques they showed them were completely unrealistic

it was similar to the "kenpo hands" where you punch me me once i block and you stand in a stationary position with your hand hanging out while i hit you with dozens of kicks and punches lol

their multiple opponent attack scenarios were even worse

they didnt teach the hosts to move and not stay in the pocket and swing if youre attacked by more than one person

which you think would be obvious

and in the final fights the kajukenbo students were very out of shape and gassing and used nothing of their style and just resorted to wild swinging

the art strikes me as beinga hodge podge of this and that from people who didnt study various arts in depth

I didn't see the show, so I can't comment on that.
But I can say this, how much "depth" do you think there is in fighting?
I personally don't see there as being much and you certainly can't get much in the way of depth in a show that's taped over a few days.

refinement of an art is where depth takes place.

There's thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of students, but very few masters.

that much is clear. :p

Or, don't count on seeing "depth" in martial ability displayed in real combat. You don't get to see it often and it is so rare that some people think mediocre is amazing. So there you have it.

lol, snotty elitist that I am... :p

[goju]

lol

well with my in depth comment i feel when it comes to alot of these people who makes their own systems they usually dont study and art thuroughly

they just learn a bit move on, go study something else for a while move, on wash rinse repeat

then they create their own style they basically have a mish mashed stew of arts they dont really understand to begin with

[Hardwork108]

lol

well with my in depth comment i feel when it comes to alot of these people who makes their own systems they usually dont study and art thuroughly

they just learn a bit move on, go study something else for a while move, on wash rinse repeat

then they create their own style they basically have a mish mashed stew of arts they dont really understand to begin with

I agree 100%!

How come when I say the same thing, everybody (not you) jumps on my head and talks about "functionality", "improvements", "evolution" and other 'Bruce Lee repeater' stuff? LOL

[Hardwork108]

I didn't see the show, so I can't comment on that.
But I can say this, how much "depth" do you think there is in fighting?

More than I could see in that show. However, to be fair, there were some logical approaches and principles, but nothing that you could not find in a good karate school.


I personally don't see there as being much and you certainly can't get much in the way of depth in a show that's taped over a few days.
The art either has depth or it doesn't. The time it took to tape the show is for the most part irrelevant, as in the past other such shows have been made about arts with more depth and the educated viewer could see this depth.


refinement of an art is where depth takes place.
And that refinement should be reflected in the actual fighting!


There's thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of students, but very few masters.
You kidding? This forum is full of (MMA) "masters". :D


Or, don't count on seeing "depth" in martial ability displayed in real combat.
The "depth" of any art should be seen in the martial ability, that is if it is practiced for long enough under the correct instruction, by a good student.

Christ, even now, some of you guys surprise me with the "MA" comments you make here....


lol, snotty elitist that I am... :p
I am not sure about you being an elitist, but surely you can just wipe and clean your nose, can't you? Just don't go to the depths...:D

[wiz cool c]

i liked the kajukenbo episode on fight quest. looked like fun.

i hated that episodee, thought they looked like a bunch of want to be tough guy punks, different vibe from the real skilled fighters like the gracies or the thai guys or mexican boxer, and i bet any of those skilled fighters would wax those punks in a fight

[Scott R. Brown]

I haven't seen the kajukenbo episode yet, but has anyone considered the possibility that it was just a crappy school?

I don't know enough about kajukenbo to judge if it is the art or the school even if I had seen the episode!

[goju]

I haven't seen the kajukenbo episode yet, but has anyone considered the possibility that it was just a crappy school?

I don't know enough about kajukenbo to judge if it is the art or the school even if I had seen the episode!

well the school was run by adrian emperado and hes the big cheese in kajukenbo circles( he helped create the style)

it jsut reminded me of another shaolin doh to be honest:rolleyes:

[Dale Dugas]

pearls before swine.

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol

well with my in depth comment i feel when it comes to alot of these people who makes their own systems they usually dont study and art thuroughly

they just learn a bit move on, go study something else for a while move, on wash rinse repeat

then they create their own style they basically have a mish mashed stew of arts they dont really understand to begin with

Kajukenbo was NOT made up by any one man, that is your first mistake.
And ALL of the the guys that helped created were ALL high ranking in their respective systems.

[sanjuro_ronin]

well the school was run by adrian emperado and hes the big cheese in kajukenbo circles( he helped create the style)

it jsut reminded me of another shaolin doh to be honest:rolleyes:

Ok, I don't recall the episode completely, bit I don't think it was run by Emperado.
I think it was Harper's and Gaylord's schools.

[MightyB]

Kajukenbo was NOT made up by any one man, that is your first mistake.
And ALL of the the guys that helped created were ALL high ranking in their respective systems.

Conceptually I think it's a very cool idea. Basically a couple of masters getting together to compare notes... testing said notes... and then codifying the results. I like that a lot of Judo, boxing, karate, and Kung Fu went into the early development of the style.

and people please don't put too much thought into the TV show's portrayal of the art. It's TV. It's for a show... It may look kinda cheezy because the show's kinda cheezy. That doesn't mean the style or the concepts behind the style are cheezy. The show's Cheezy... sheesh, now I know what my broadcasting professors meant when they said there's a "media -literacy" problem in this country.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Conceptually I think it's a very cool idea. Basically a couple of masters getting together to compare notes... testing said notes... and then codifying the results. I like that a lot of Judo, boxing, karate, and Kung Fu went into the early development of the style.

and people please don't put too much thought into the TV show's portrayal of the art. It's TV. It's for a show... It may look kinda cheezy because the show's kinda cheezy. That doesn't mean the style or the concepts behind the style are cheezy. The show's Cheezy... sheesh, now I know what my broadcasting professors meant when they said there's a "media -literacy" problem in this country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kajukenbo

[Lucas]

I think some of that tough guy attitude you see on those episodes has a lot to do with the cameras presence. what i liked about the episode was the aspect that the style spend decent time working on multiple opponent encounters (although the krav maga schools in that department). some of the training they did was good.

you'll also notice a lot of bikers in that style for some reason...

but you got to give it to them, they like to fight, and they fight often.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kajukenbo is a scrapper system, if you like to fight, it is the place for you.
If it works, they added to the system, its just that simple.
As for the clip.
At least they are fighting which is more than I can say for most systems.

[Dragonzbane76]

At least they are fighting which is more than I can say for most systems.

yep....:cool:

[sanjuro_ronin]

What ever happened to the fight quest crap ?

[Lucas]

lol dunno. i only watched it through netflix. maybe they ran out of styles? or ratings most likely.

[David Jamieson]

What ever happened to the fight quest crap ?

well, it was crap. lol

wasn't this the show with the fake sas guy on it?

anyway, shows like that are dumb anyway. like that spartan vs ninja thing.

what nonsense. lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

What was the other one...with the fat guy...

[Lucas]

nah it had a marine and a 'pro' mma fighter. they traveled to location and recieved 2 different types of training. traditional then modern/military. one would get the trad master the other guy got the modern / military coach.

they would get seperated and train then fight.

the kali episode was sick as hell.

[Lucas]

it was an OK show.

the muay thai episode was cool too. u get to see some champs.

one of the funny things is how often the mma guys lack of flexibility presented a problem in his training.

oh the mexico boxing epsidoe was cool too. fool got to room with olympic boxers and train with them....

[Lucas]

What was the other one...with the fat guy...

not sure, ive only seen fight quest really. its not like that deadliest warrior thing.

at least in fight quest its 2 real fighters doing real training and then getting beat up.

[David Jamieson]

not sure, ive only seen fight quest really. its not like that deadliest warrior thing.

at least in fight quest its 2 real fighters doing real training and then getting beat up.

no one outside of the 14 to 26 year old male demograph watches that stuff anyway. :p

after that, you should know a little about the reality of fighting and naturally lose all interest in the fantasy versions except in the theatrical sense. :D

some guys learn earlier, others learn later, but when they do, these shows lose ratings and ultimately get canceled because they were silly puberty fantasies to begin with.

[sanjuro_ronin]

no one outside of the 14 to 26 year old male demograph watches that stuff anyway. :p

after that, you should know a little about the reality of fighting and naturally lose all interest in the fantasy versions except in the theatrical sense. :D

some guys learn earlier, others learn later, but when they do, these shows lose ratings and ultimately get canceled because they were silly puberty fantasies to begin with.

Actually, the premise was quite good, much like Deadly Arts.
Someone goes around the world training in and showing the world, the different MA of the world, perhaps even for the first time.
The problem was in the execution, as always.

[David Jamieson]

Actually, the premise was quite good, much like Deadly Arts.
Someone goes around the world training in and showing the world, the different MA of the world, perhaps even for the first time.
The problem was in the execution, as always.

Deadly arts was the granola chewing hippy chick who let various masters slap her around a bit here and there right?

Cause, in my snotty elitist opinion, that show really sucked bag.

UFC live is cutting it close with me when it comes to crappy television.

But shows that purposefully postulate and guess about fighting p me off.
I never did like em as much as I like history stuff about Ghengis Khan or Alexander the Great. Those guys were about RESULTS! :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Deadly arts was the granola chewing hippy chick who let various masters slap her around a bit here and there right?

Cause, in my snotty elitist opinion, that show really sucked bag.

UFC live is cutting it close with me when it comes to crappy television.

But shows that purposefully postulate and guess about fighting p me off.
I never did like em as much as I like history stuff about Ghengis Khan or Alexander the Great. Those guys were about RESULTS! :D

yeah, the silly hippe chick.
Liek I said, great ideas, lousy executions.

[Lucas]

the thing i liked about the show ( i watched one season on netflix ) was that they actually went to authentic trainers of what ever particular art it was, and trained exactly how their fighters do. like i said the kali episode really sticks out in my mind, the marine guy had to go train with the philipino marines. if i remember correctly he said he never had it that hard in OUR marine training. lol. they sacrificed a chicken !! i think they said it was the first time they had a foreigner involved in that right of kali.

as sanjuro said, the execution was lousy. they should have taken the guys and had them train at the places for a 1-3 months, THEN fought. but meh.

[David Jamieson]

the thing i liked about the show ( i watched one season on netflix ) was that they actually went to authentic trainers of what ever particular art it was, and trained exactly how their fighters do. like i said the kali episode really sticks out in my mind, the marine guy had to go train with the philipino marines. if i remember correctly he said he never had it that hard in OUR marine training. lol. they sacrificed a chicken !! i think they said it was the first time they had a foreigner involved in that right of kali.

as sanjuro said, the execution was lousy. they should have taken the guys and had them train at the places for a 1-3 months, THEN fought. but meh.

they should've tied their necks together with a 6 foot piece of silk and given them a bowie knife each.

that would be cool.

training with someone for a couple of days is pretty much a useless exercise though. It has little merit, if any.

[Lucas]

they should've tied their necks together with a 6 foot piece of silk and given them a bowie knife each.

that would be cool.

training with someone for a couple of days is pretty much a useless exercise though. It has little merit, if any.

lol i agree. for them it was definately a cool experience im sure. for the watcher it gave you a little bit of cultural education centered around some MA training.

but hey i dont watch tv. im not subscribed, so its rare i see any tv shows at all. IMO this still beats most of the crap i remember being on tv.

it was on discovery channel when it aired.

[Lucas]

dang i just remembered. you should have seen the episode in india LOL

forget the art but they were doing this **** with live blades and the marine fool cut this guys face open lol.

the best part was the guy who got his face cut open, permanent scaring on his lip, showed up to fight the guy on their 'final fight' match LOL

i bet he was looking for some payback.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The training was enough, it was the crappy fighting in the end that ruined for me all the time.
If they had just gone there and trained, that would have been enough.

[Lucas]

The training was enough, it was the crappy fighting in the end that ruined for me all the time.
If they had just gone there and trained, that would have been enough.

likewise. i really like watching all the training. ya the fighting generally sucked.

although i liked the kyukoshin and the kali end fights. the hapkido wasnt bad either

the kali because of the knife fighting and the stick fighting of course.

[goju]

Kajukenbo was NOT made up by any one man, that is your first mistake.
And ALL of the the guys that helped created were ALL high ranking in their respective systems.

ah... no i never said it was made up by one man in fact in fact you cna see im my previous post i stated emperado was one of the guys who helped create it

high rank means very little if the style and teacher are of poor quality:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

ah... no i never said it was made up by one man in fact in fact you cna see im my previous post i stated emperado was one of the guys who helped create it

high rank means very little if the style and teacher are of poor quality:D

I see, you were speaking in general.
That's fine, but id doesn't hold water in this case.
I suggest you take a refresher course in Kajukenbo history before you make a comment like that, or go to your nearest Kajukenbo school and find out for yourself.

[Kevin73]

The training was enough, it was the crappy fighting in the end that ruined for me all the time.
If they had just gone there and trained, that would have been enough.

I agree with that, I liked seeing some of the basics of the arts and how they trained them. The fights always were about the same no matter what style they showed, just bad kickboxing.

The other show that was exactly the same as Fight Quest was called Human Weapon. They did the exact samething, went around the globe and trained in different arts and then fought at the end.

[Kevin73]

I haven't seen the kajukenbo episode yet, but has anyone considered the possibility that it was just a crappy school?

I don't know enough about kajukenbo to judge if it is the art or the school even if I had seen the episode!

The two schools were both by grandmasters of the art.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree with that, I liked seeing some of the basics of the arts and how they trained them. The fights always were about the same no matter what style they showed, just bad kickboxing.

The other show that was exactly the same as Fight Quest was called Human Weapon. They did the exact samething, went around the globe and trained in different arts and then fought at the end.

Yeah, Human weapon, the was the other crap fest.

[Kevin73]

Kajukenbo was NOT made up by any one man, that is your first mistake.
And ALL of the the guys that helped created were ALL high ranking in their respective systems.

While the art was made up by different people and incorporated elements of boxing (chinese and wester), karate, judo and kenpo (there were also some elements from flilipino arts). They were not all high ranked in their respective arts at the time kajukenbo.

They all met in secrecy and banged away at each other to find holes in each other's arts. They then combined their approach into a seemless art. It also reflected how fighting was done in Hawaii at the time and the most common types of attacks. That is why many of their grab counters are designed against someone grabbing onto your shirt to then punch you with the other hand. Their punch counters are designed against a boxer's right or a left/right combo.

They were known for their VERY hard training. And in the early days because of the rough and tumble training they didn't get alot of accountants taking their classes thinking that they could fight and never had to prove it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kevin,
Perhaps high ranking was the wrong term, especially condiering how ranked worked in those days.
Well experienced is better,, yes?

[Kevin73]

Kevin,
Perhaps high ranking was the wrong term, especially condiering how ranked worked in those days.
Well experienced is better,, yes?

I would definately agree with experienced. The founders did have at least sho-dans in the arts. I was just trying to point out that they had some experience in the arts, but not of high rank. I pointed that out because many times people exagerate the background to make them seem better (Bruce Lee's WC experience anyone?).

I should have also pointed out that they were not out to create an "art", they were out to create an effective form of streetfighting and the art benefits were secondary. I think they achieved their goal of an effective for of streetfighting.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I would definately agree with experienced. The founders did have at least sho-dans in the arts. I was just trying to point out that they had some experience in the arts, but not of high rank. I pointed that out because many times people exagerate the background to make them seem better (Bruce Lee's WC experience anyone?).

I should have also pointed out that they were not out to create an "art", they were out to create an effective form of streetfighting and the art benefits were secondary. I think they achieved their goal of an effective for of streetfighting.

I would agree.
I know that the current form of Kajukenbo has had some "old timers" a bit flushed, in some circles it has become a bit too much like american kenpo.

[Kevin73]

I would agree.
I know that the current form of Kajukenbo has had some "old timers" a bit flushed, in some circles it has become a bit too much like american kenpo.

Depending on who's view of the history you believe. Sijo Emperado states that Ed Parker studied only two weeks with him and then switched to training with Chow because the training was too tough.

Who knows the reason for the switch, but the early guys were known for kicking butt and taking names. The groups now are trying very hard to keep it rough and tumble and not softening it up for mass appeal.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I meant that many of the old school guys think that some of the current kajukenbo is a tad to "slappy".

[goju]

I see, you were speaking in general.
That's fine, but id doesn't hold water in this case.
I suggest you take a refresher course in Kajukenbo history before you make a comment like that, or go to your nearest Kajukenbo school and find out for yourself.

to my knowledge there are no kajukenbo schools in colorado
:p

[sanjuro_ronin]

to my knowledge there are no kajukenbo schools in colorado
:p

Loveland Martial Arts Academy
285-B East 29th Loveland, CO 80537
970 593 1965

Sifu Artie Dacascos
email: artdragon3@aol.com
Denver area

Kajukenbo Wun Hop Kuen Do

WORLD KARATE CENTER
15353 E HINSDALE CIRCLE #A
CENTENNIAL, CO 80112
303-766-9449

www.worldkaratecenter.com

:D

[CFT]

Funny how a teacher of a style blended from such a variety of TMAs still chooses to call himself "sifu".

Wun Hop Kuen Do ... "wun hop kuen" means "mixed" fist in Cantonese, a good description for Kajukenbo.

[bawang]

ok, i don't recall the episode completely, bit i don't think it was run by emperado.
I think it was harper's and gaylord's schools.

lol gaylord

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol gaylord

Only a real man can be called GAYlord !!

[bawang]

he is lord of the gay
he must b very powerful

by the way.. wot is kajukenbo???

[David Jamieson]

he is lord of the gay
he must b very powerful

by the way.. wot is kajukenbo???

it's a melange of styles put together by a melange of guys.

[sanjuro_ronin]

it's a melange of styles put together by a melange of guys.

Just like a salad bar !

[MasterKiller]

Just like a salad bar !

More like a breakfast bar with no bacon. Sure you're all excited to see the biscuits, eggs, and gravy, and they'll fill your belly, but when you can't find the bacon you just can't help but feel a little empty inside...

[sanjuro_ronin]

More like a breakfast bar with no bacon. Sure you're all excited to see the biscuits, eggs, and gravy, and they'll fill your belly, but when you can't find the bacon you just can't help but feel a little empty inside...

How can you say it has no Bacon?
It's back Bacon dude !!
:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

My issue with kajukenbo, and yes I do have some :p, is that, like Kenpo, the training doesn't really resemble the fighting.
We've all seen the demos, the blinding fast combos and what not, but when you see it in full contact those combos are just not there.
Now, Chow's Kempo and Emperado's Kajukenbo were far more "powerful" and far less "slappy".
The still believed in combos, they just advocated full force multiple strikes as opposed to a flurry of slaps.

[Scott R. Brown]

My issue with kajukenbo, and yes I do have some :p, is that, like Kenpo, the training doesn't really resemble the fighting.
We've all seen the demos, the blinding fast combos and what not, but when you see it in full contact those combos are just not there.
Now, Chow's Kempo and Emperado's Kajukenbo were far more "powerful" and far less "slappy".
The still believed in combos, they just advocated full force multiple strikes as opposed to a flurry of slaps.

So what you are saying is you do not like MAs based upon the Three Stooges method of fighting!

[sanjuro_ronin]

So what you are saying is you do not like MAs based upon the Three Stooges method of fighting!

I wouldn't go THAT far !
A wrench to the nose and a hammer to the head can do wonders for a person's regularity.

[Scott R. Brown]

I wouldn't go THAT far !
A wrench to the nose and a hammer to the head can do wonders for a person's regularity.

Don't forget the double poke to the eyes and swift kick to the butt!

[goju]

Loveland Martial Arts Academy
285-B East 29th Loveland, CO 80537
970 593 1965

Sifu Artie Dacascos
email: artdragon3@aol.com
Denver area

Kajukenbo Wun Hop Kuen Do

WORLD KARATE CENTER
15353 E HINSDALE CIRCLE #A
CENTENNIAL, CO 80112
303-766-9449

www.worldkaratecenter.com

:D

well iwas wrong lol

i have never seen them in the phone book and ive never been to love land or centenial

not sure where the decascos fella is though:o

[SnowDog]

My issue with kajukenbo, and yes I do have some :p, is that, like Kenpo, the training doesn't really resemble the fighting.
We've all seen the demos, the blinding fast combos and what not, but when you see it in full contact those combos are just not there.
Now, Chow's Kempo and Emperado's Kajukenbo were far more "powerful" and far less "slappy".
The still believed in combos, they just advocated full force multiple strikes as opposed to a flurry of slaps.


I actually trained with a guy I worked with out of his garage for a while (Untill we got laid off and he moved away) who was a 4th Dan under Emperado, and he had the same issue, that the other branches became more "consumer friendly" and got away from the hard knocks rough and tumble that made kajukenbo what it was.

I must say though, I olny trained enough to learn the basics and what he was teaching was very powerfull and to the point, you could definately tell it was "street fighting" influenced........Let's just say these kajukenbo guys seemed to understand Ground and Pound long before before it became mainstream w/ MMA.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I actually trained with a guy I worked with out of his garage for a while (Untill we got laid off and he moved away) who was a 4th Dan under Emperado, and he had the same issue, that the other branches became more "consumer friendly" and got away from the hard knocks rough and tumble that made kajukenbo what it was.

I must say though, I olny trained enough to learn the basics and what he was teaching was very powerfull and to the point, you could definately tell it was "street fighting" influenced........Let's just say these kajukenbo guys seemed to understand Ground and Pound long before before it became mainstream w/ MMA.

You got that right.
There are quite a few very good MA out there that are not and will never be commerical.
Back yard and garage guys that are quite something.