Climate Gate Cleared

[SanHeChuan]

UK lawmakers take heat off 'Climategate' scientist (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/31/climate.change/index.html?hpt=Sbin)


The UK scientist at the center of the "Climategate" controversy over leaked e-mails has been cleared of hiding or manipulating data by a parliamentary committee.

Now is 1bad65 going to claim conspiracy? :p

[Drake]

The guy never actually lied. He was overzealous and said things he shouldn't have. But who expects their private e-mails to make headlines?

[1bad65]

Now is 1bad65 going to claim conspiracy? :p

Nope. It's not exactly a surprise. The UK is a huge nanny state, and socialists are using the environment to pass anti-business/anti-freedom laws.

[SanHeChuan]

Nope.

So you agree with the committee findings that they in fact did not manipulate their data to create false evidence for climate change?

[Drake]

Nope. It's not exactly a surprise. The UK is a huge nanny state, and socialists are using the environment to pass anti-business/anti-freedom laws.

Anti-freedom? COME ON. Seriously. COME ON. That's about as bad as the line that the terrorists hate our freedom. They hate US for a number of completely insane reasons, but not freedom.

[David Jamieson]

Most of us typing away on our keyboards wouldn't know freedom if it walked up and punched us in the nutsack.

People glued to the internet, or their tv are not free.
People paying taxes for services they never receive are not free.
People paying fines for stopping a car where it obstructs no one and nothing but a sign says no, are not free.
People who let oped opinions decide their political views and motivations are not free.

and so on and so forth, you with me here?

I think it behooves people to understand that at the very core of the matter, we are not free no matter where we go.

we are always in service to someone or something other.

we do not make our own food or find our own water, we rely so much on the extrinsic to even think for a moment that one is "free" is the height of absurdity.

[1bad65]

So you agree with the committee findings that they in fact did not manipulate their data to create false evidence for climate change?

Of course not. But I have the ability to read and comprehend e-mails. Apparently the people on this committee do not.

BTW, do you know who was on this committee? Were they elected officials? What Party(s) do they belong to?

[1bad65]

Anti-freedom? COME ON. Seriously. COME ON. That's about as bad as the line that the terrorists hate our freedom. They hate US for a number of completely insane reasons, but not freedom.

They despise our freedom of religion, for one. They expect everyone to believe as they do, or they kill you. They pass laws on this, while we do not.

[David Jamieson]

They despise our freedom of religion, for one. They expect everyone to believe as they do, or they kill you. They pass laws on this, while we do not.

Who does this?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

[SanHeChuan]

BTW, do you know who was on this committee? Were they elected officials? What Party(s) do they belong to?

Phil Willis MP, (Chair) Liberal Democrat
Dr Roberta Blackman-Woods MP Labour
Tim Boswell MP Conservative
Ian Cawsey MP Labour
Nadine Dorries MP Conservative
Dr Evan Harris MP Liberal Democrat
Dr Brian Iddon MP Labour
Gordon Marsden MP Labour
Dr Doug Naysmith MP Labour
Bob Spink MP Independent
Ian Stewart MP Labour
Graham Stringer MP Labour
Dr Desmond Turner MP Labour
Rob Wilson MP Conservative


But I have the ability to read and comprehend e-mails.

Questionable, tell me exatly what was the "Trick" used and what did it acomplish? What was the data thrown out and why? Details please.

[David Jamieson]

wasn't so much a trick as it was inclusion of x with exclusion of y and using primarily 1 source to make the arguments.

see here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html

This, in and of itself is quite interesting.

I think this is all gonna pan out into yet another ditch effort at having everyone believe in global warming without all the ballyhoo and fighting about it.

By the end of summer, which will be a drought filled scorcher for many because that is the cycle we are in, you will have people in their 3rd week of hotbox madness who will now be convinced that global warming is happening because we are suffering from drought and heat unlike anything since the great depression...or the great drought of 800AD! and so on.

I think we need to stop polluting so much and we need to put a lot of harnesses on our industry that is gonna shake some capitalists up real bad.

that's the kicker isn't it? getting everyone else to pay for big business and government failure.

government could legislate now for reductions in emissions and could enact laws that would force industry to comply and use technologies to reduce waste and pollution now.

but they don't. And it is strictly because of short term political gain fr the politicians and long term monetary gain without responsibility to te environment for the corporations.

right now in Canada, we have a prime minister who is doing exactly NOTHING about a horrible environmental disaster that is taking place in Alberta at the oil sands.

A whole country is turning a blind eye to the damage it is causing in the name of industry and the dollar. Truly, I am ashamed by this as a Canadian and am less than impressed by my government's failing in this regard.

[1bad65]

Who does this?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

Read up on 'Sharia' laws.

[1bad65]

So we have 10 liberals including the Chair, 3 Conservatives, and an independant. Sounds balanced to me. :rolleyes:


Questionable, tell me exatly what was the "Trick" used and what did it acomplish? What was the data thrown out and why? Details please.

I posted at least one other e-mail that spoke of how to get conflicting data thrown out. I notice you left that one alone...

[1bad65]

David, you do realize all of these ridiculous "Green" laws raise consumer prices, cost jobs, and increase regulation, right?

[David Jamieson]

David, you do realize all of these ridiculous "Green" laws raise consumer prices, cost jobs, and increase regulation, right?

Yes and I am all for it.

I want to see industry regulated and held accountable for it's doings, especially when they are using natural resources and affecting natural resources.

they should be responsible for application of pollution control systems and if they can't then they shouldn't run the part of the industry that is killing the environment period.

jobs that cost humanity in the long run are not jobs worth having around in the short term,

companies have shown, as people have shown, that they require regulation to not be the dirty cheap cheating dogs that they will be if left to their own devices. Only named people can be accountable. Corporations almost never are.

It is stupid to blindly trust the fox to guard the hen house. we are all responsible for the future generations and we must hold polluters accountable now and force those behaviour changes or your grandkids ill live in an even bleaker place than we do now with heart disease and cancers and hundred of toxic substances that weren't in existence 100 years ago changing us at a genetic level that may not be reversible and may be the demise of us all.

But hey, if it' cutting into that hotrod and fat steak you're chewing on, then let them burn right?

come on, you can't possibly be that short sighted.

[David Jamieson]

Read up on 'Sharia' laws.

I suggest that maybe you should do that.
Sharia law doesn't forbid the practice of other religions.
Sharia law is about laws for muslims.

there are christians and jews, hindus, taoists, buddhists and all the rest who live and work in countries that use Sharia Law along with their larger justice systems.

Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and others that practice Sharia law do not forbid other religions from being practiced within their borders.

I think your hate is showing.

[Drake]

David, you do realize all of these ridiculous "Green" laws raise consumer prices, cost jobs, and increase regulation, right?

And without them, we'll destroy everything around us. What do you want? Higher prices or a barren wasteland? There is already damage done to our environment, and a growing number of scientists are saying we're too late anyway. Those jobs you speak of are contributing to the destruction of the planet, which might take a slightly higher priority than an oil rig job.

Again, the damage has already been documented, and now parts of South America are under health advisories due to OUR negligence.

[Drake]

Read up on 'Sharia' laws.

Actually, they are upset with our presence there, and our support of Israel, which is currently in a land *****-fest with the Palestinians. Al Qaeda may want global Islam, but the Taliban, JAM, Hexbollah and Waziris just want us to GTFO.

And they aren't a unified front. Trust me, I have had to read hundreds of pages on this. You can start with the NATO report, but that's the biggest taste you'll get without a clearance.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I want to see industry regulated and held accountable for it's doings, especially when they are using natural resources and affecting natural resources.
I agree, ALL Natural resource industries MUST be regulated for long term use, not short term profit.

[SanHeChuan]

companies have shown, as people have shown, that they require regulation to not be the dirty cheap cheating dogs that they will be if left to their own devices. Only named people can be accountable. Corporations almost never are.


Even the named are spared if they work for the right corporations.

Looting Main Street (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/32906678/looting_main_street/print)


...you can see a trail that leads directly from a billion-dollar predatory swap deal cooked up at the highest levels of America's biggest banks, across a vast fruited plain of bribes and felonies - "the price of doing business," as one JP Morgan banker says on tape - all the way down to Lisa Pack's sewer bill and the mass layoffs in Birmingham.

Identfied, named, and recorded JP Morgan employees caught bribing government officials and no one from JP Morgan is going to jail.
:confused:

[1bad65]

Yes and I am all for it.

I want to see industry regulated and held accountable for it's doings, especially when they are using natural resources and affecting natural resources.

Since we are nationalizing industries, you should look at other countries that did/do that and see how their environments suffered because of it. You saw the soupy air in Beijing during the Olympics, it made LA's look good! And the USSR was notorious for nuclear meltdows and "Black Forests" for example. And once the State runs industry, there is ZERO accountability. What is the State going to do, punish itself?

[1bad65]

I suggest that maybe you should do that.
Sharia law doesn't forbid the practice of other religions.
Sharia law is about laws for muslims.

there are christians and jews, hindus, taoists, buddhists and all the rest who live and work in countries that use Sharia Law along with their larger justice systems.

Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and others that practice Sharia law do not forbid other religions from being practiced within their borders.

I think your hate is showing.

Is stoning rape victims to death is all good in your book? And I'm the guy full of hate for pointing out that's wrong? :confused:

So if you get caught stealing in a Muslim country that cuts thief's hands off and you are not a Muslim, your hands aren't cut off?

[David Jamieson]

Since we are nationalizing industries, you should look at other countries that did/do that and see how their environments suffered because of it. You saw the soupy air in Beijing during the Olympics, it made LA's look good! And the USSR was notorious for nuclear meltdows and "Black Forests" for example. And once the State runs industry, there is ZERO accountability. What is the State going to do, punish itself?

I never said anything about nationalizing companies. I said Regulate them especially in the cases where they are using natural resources.

But while we're at it, I believe all natural energy resources should be nationalized and regulated. Coal, Oil, Gas, Hydro electric that all uses tax grants and benefits should belong to the community. Not to some corporation and not in title to a government agency, but an open source ownership of these resources by teh people.

all other resources require regulation and controls as well. water, wood, arable lands, etc and for the most part, already do.

we need to protect our environment and right now, energy companies are NOT doing that. Hence, it is time to take the toy away from baby and see to it that harm is no longer continued.

I don't trust business to do the right thing because historically and overall, business doesn't do the right thing.

I for one will not measure my life against my bank account. the most precious skills I have I carry at all times and work on at all times.

Music, visual art and of course Kung fu. these are the most valuable possessions I have.

[1bad65]

we need to protect our environment and right now, energy companies are NOT doing that. Hence, it is time to take the toy away from baby and see to it that harm is no longer continued.

And who do we give the toy to?

[David Jamieson]

And who do we give the toy to?

nobody. it stays in trust as community property. It belongs to the nation.

How it(the business of collecting and using the resource) functions and runs will be a matter of those who have the minds to do it correctly, by rule of law and in an ethical manner that does not cause detriment to the resource itself, the people who use it or the environment from which it is taken.

Currently, oil companies are run by profiteers, Hydro electric companies are over subsidized, alternative energies are blocked by lobbyists and government officials who are in bed with energy companies and so on.

It's not just in North America, it is an issue everywhere simply because small groups of people CANNOT be trusted with the welfare of nations or it's precious resources.

[MasterKiller]

It's not just in North America, it is an issue everywhere simply because small groups of people CANNOT be trusted with the welfare of nations or it's precious resources. Resources are only precious because private companies developed a use for them so they could make a profit.

The government shouldn't be running anything, but they should regulate fair practices and ensure environmental safeguards are enforced.

[David Jamieson]

Resources are only precious because private companies developed a use for them so they could make a profit.

The government shouldn't be running anything, but they should regulate fair practices and ensure environmental safeguards are enforced.


Dude, water is a resource and it's value is beyond any profit that can be applied to it.

If companies are destroying water, they are doing wrong. Period. If they are destroying the environment in the area where they are taking natural resources, they are doing wrong.

time and again, companies have demonstrated they do not do things in a manner which is anything but "profitable".

this mind set is driven by the insanity of the free market economy that every city dwelling desk sitter just loves as their condo gets filled with better tvs and nicer toasters.

And why shouldn't government control and regulate resources? Why not?
It's done with a lot of success in many places, why do you automatically think Government is the wrong candidate to regulate and control a nations national resources?

[1bad65]

nobody. it stays in trust as community property. It belongs to the nation.

So it belongs to the State. Correct?

[1bad65]

Resources are only precious because private companies developed a use for them so they could make a profit.

The government shouldn't be running anything, but they should regulate fair practices and ensure environmental safeguards are enforced.

I actually agree with the second sentance. The debate will always be how much regulation is necessary.

If anyone thinks I'm all for letting businesses being left completely unchecked, they are incorrect.

[1bad65]

Looks like more info about the committe that cleared the 'scientist' has came to light.

"Penn State's investigation came under severe attack by critics who argued that the university failed to interview any hostile witnesses, failed to examine the methodology that was at the heart of the controversy and was more concerned that the millions of dollars in grant money it gets by having Mann on the faculty could be jeopardized by adverse findings.

"It was set up to be a total whitewash, and the panel made no effort to investigate," said Steven Milloy, publisher of Junk Science, a Web site that casts doubt on global-warming research. "They didn't even interview the recipients of the e-mails. It is ridiculous," he told FoxNews.com.

Perhaps the most ****ing charge is that the three-person panel, which claimed it had spent hundreds of hours investigating the allegations, interviewed only two people in its inquiry, neither of whom had any direct knowledge of the e-mails or Mann's work. Moreover, the panel didn't ask Mann for any documents to support his work or to confirm the charges, according to Steve McIntyre, a climate scientist who has questioned many of Mann's findings. "They only looked at what was public," he wrote on his blog Climate Audit."

Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/06/climate-gate-michael-mann/

Like Rush always says, "Follow the money".

[MasterKiller]

"It was set up to be a total whitewash, and the panel made no effort to investigate," said Steven Milloy, publisher of Junk Science, a Web site that casts doubt on global-warming research. "They didn't even interview the recipients of the e-mails. It is ridiculous," he told FoxNews.com.

.


LOL at Steven Milloy whining about people not conducting thorough investigations. This is the same guy that claims second-hand smoke doesn't cause cancer, and just happens to be head of the Free Enterprise Action Fund, a mutual fund he runs with former tobacco executive Tom Borelli.

[1bad65]

LOL at Steven Milloy whining about people not conducting thorough investigations. This is the same guy that claims second-hand smoke doesn't cause cancer, and just happens to be head of the Free Enterprise Action Fund, a mutual fund he runs with former tobacco executive Tom Borelli.

Straw man.

The points he made are valid, no matter how poorly his own investigations may have been. And Mr Milloy was not the only one saying it was a joke of an investigation.

[Hardwork108]

I suggest that maybe you should do that.
Sharia law doesn't forbid the practice of other religions.
Sharia law is about laws for muslims.

there are christians and jews, hindus, taoists, buddhists and all the rest who live and work in countries that use Sharia Law along with their larger justice systems.

Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and others that practice Sharia law do not forbid other religions from being practiced within their borders.

I tell you what, this coming summer, you try having a drink of your favorite whisky sitting in a park in Iran with your girlfriend while she is wearing a bikini top......LOL

[GeneChing]

Can’t find Sriracha? Here’s why the shortage is a sign of our harsh climate reality (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-06-26/sriracha-shortage-climate-change-mexico-drought)

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/7972ab4/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5353x3569+0+0/resize/1200x800!/format/webp/quality/80/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F69%2Ff2%2F892f90d741 37a7e0ea596c0ddeed%2F2418786-fi-sriracha-farmer-sik-048-2.JPG
The coveted sauce. (Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times)
BY NATHAN SOLISSTAFF WRITER
JUNE 26, 2023 3:59 PM PT

Last summer, Uyen Le, owner and chef at Be U Vietnamese Street Food in East Hollywood, was scraping out her Sriracha bottles and trying to ration her supply. Huy Fong Foods had announced a shortage of the red chile peppers it uses to make the sauce, and the world was taking notice.

One of her employees suggested asking the public for help. Be U offered free meals in exchange for Huy Fong Sriracha sauce, and it got around 300 bottles during the promotion. A year later, the restaurant still has about 100 bottles left.

“I was always aware of supply chain issues related to climate change, and I understood that it’s something you have to adapt to. It’s the reality we have to live with,” Le said. “When we heard about the last shortage, we stocked up. I was like, ‘Oh my goodness, is this too much?’ But it turned out to be prescient.”

Now, heading into another summer, the world is a little more bland as the makers of the famous Sriracha hot sauce, with its iconic green cap and the rooster on the bottle, say they still don’t know when their supply will bounce back.

In the Bay Area, some desperate Sriracha lovers have taken to swiping bottles from Filipino restaurant chain Señor Sisig, SFGate reported. A single 28-ounce bottle was listed for $29.99 at an Asian grocery in Oakland this month, with a limit of two per customer.

At 168 Market in Alhambra, dozens of imitation Huy Fong Sriracha bottles line the shelves, but the section reserved for Huy Fong Foods bottles is empty. A market manager said the hot sauce sells out within a day when the store gets a shipment, and customers are limited to one bottle.

“A lot of people call looking for the Sriracha sauce,” said the manager, who did not give his name. “Everyone is acting polite. But we know that people want it all the time. It’s been this way for several months.”

The situation is no better online, where virtually all Sriracha options are out of stock on Amazon. At one point, a two-pack of 17-ounce bottles was listed for over $160.

Drought in Mexico is to blame for the shortages that have persisted for the last year, a phenomenon that experts warn will become much more common on a warming planet.

For nearly 30 years, Huy Fong Foods — which goes through about 50,000 tons of chiles a year to make its Sriracha, chile-garlic sauce and sambal oelek — sourced all its peppers from Ventura County’s Underwood Ranches, until the parties parted ways over a bitter contract dispute that led to a multimillion-dollar judgment in favor of Underwood in 2019.

Huy Fong now sources its chiles from multiple suppliers throughout Mexico, where severe drought conditions have curtailed crops and led to water shortages in many cities and towns.

In a statement, the Irwindale company said it is “still experiencing a shortage of raw material” and has no estimate when supplies will return. It produced some Sriracha in the fall, but output was limited.

Although Huy Fong Foods said it is working to avoid a repeat, future shortages in food supplies are all but assured with the current amount of water used in the United States, said Gary Nabhan, an agricultural ecologist and professor emeritus at the University of Arizona.

Large swaths of Mexico receive water from the Colorado River, but U.S. farms have first right to that water. For years, farmers have been growing their produce with diminishing water supplies, but it’s come to the point where the methods to grow those crops have to adapt to a changing landscape, according to a recent study authored by Nabhan.

Jalapeño peppers require less than half the amount of water it takes to grow alfalfa or pecans, but drought and competition from water-hungry crops upstream still shrink harvests, Nabhan said.

“Climate change is the ultimate driver, but it’s also how we manage the water equitably,” Nabhan said. “Any politician is going to be reluctant to allocate less water, but we’re not asking farmers to transition to more efficient irrigation techniques.”

The United States is the top importer of Mexico’s agricultural products, increasing 14% last year to a record high of $44.2 billion, according to the U.S. Census Bureau and the Mexican government.

Chile peppers thrive in arid climates, and Mexican states such as Sinaloa, Chihuahua and Michoacán are some of the top producers, according to Mexico’s Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development.

But Mexico is gripped by a searing heat wave, and large swaths of the country are in a drought, according to the Mexican government’s latest drought monitor report.

While shortages of chile peppers used in Sriracha hot sauce grab the public’s attention, other harvests are suffering as well because of the drought, said Shon Hiatt, an associate professor at USC’s Marshall School of Business who focuses on global energy and agriculture.

Kansas, one of the largest sources of hard red winter wheat, is projected to have a historically weak crop this year because of drought conditions, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

“Right now we’re seeing the droughts hit right straight up the Midwest. If you were to draw a line from Texas, from Mexico, just go straight north, all the way up through to Minnesota and the Dakotas,” Hiatt said.

The drought’s disruption to Huy Fong Foods’ supply chain is similar to the broader situation that gripped the U.S. in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. During those first few months, manufacturers couldn’t produce items such as ibuprofen or electronics because core components came from overseas.

“We realized, ‘Oh gosh, we are strongly susceptible to supply chain shocks, because we purchase everything from China and Southeast Asia. We don’t make anything here,’” Hiatt said. “It’s the same thing we’re seeing in agriculture.”

Huy Fong Foods declined an interview request and said in a statement that it couldn’t specify which markets will receive more of its products.

Some people can’t wait, so they’re making their own sauce.

Kristin Nguyen, chef and owner at Garlic and Chives, a Michelin-recommended Asian fusion restaurant in Garden Grove’s Little Saigon, didn’t think about the cost of Sriracha sauce before the shortage. But the average bottles are now sold at a premium.

“I put it in a lot of my sauces, but I didn’t want to pass on the costs to my customers and I don’t want to sacrifice taste,” Nguyen said. “I put my whole heart and soul into anything I create.”

The labor and supplies to make her own Sriracha sauce are costly, Nguyen said. It takes about 10 pounds of red jalapeños, which can sell for up to $8 a pound. There’s also the cost of vinegar, sugar and other ingredients, plus the whole process requires time to ferment. Before the Sriracha shortage, Nguyen would just reach for a bottle of Huy Fong.

“It really does affect me, because it takes away time from other things I could be doing for my businesses,” Nguyen said.

She thinks that her Sriracha is close to the classic taste of Huy Fong’s and said she can work around the problem.

“If [Huy Fong] wants to brainstorm on some ideas for substitutes,” she said, “we can crack the code.”


Hot-Sauce! (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?66863-Hot-Sauce!)
Climate-Gate-Cleared (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?56875-Climate-Gate-Cleared)