Wing Chun in full contact fights NYC April 10

[Phil Redmond]

ALL STYLES WELCOME:


PRAYING MANTIS / BAGUA / WING CHUN / SHOTOKAN / GOJU / TAE KWON DO / KENPO / TAI CHI / SHAOLIN

We will be hosting our second championship qualifier for the CHAMPIONSHIP TITLE.

We have divisions for Feather weight (125-130 lbs), Light weight (135-145), middle weight (150 – 160), Super middle weight (165-175 lbs), and heavy weight (180 plus)

This event is open to traditional martial artist only! Presentation of style solo routine is required.

For more info call (212) 426-4666 or visit us at 1950 3rd. (corner of 107th street) 3rd. floor.

Event will air live on Pay Per View (Will you be our next Champion)?

$40.OO by April 1st. $50.00 day of event

[Frost]

when you say traditional styles only does this include thai boxing and BJJ as they have been around for quite some time?

[YungChun]

when you say traditional styles only does this include thai boxing and BJJ as they have been around for quite some time?



This event is open to traditional martial artist only! Presentation of style solo routine is required.


How are those BJJ/MT forms coming along? :D

[Ultimatewingchun]

Actually, I believe that some versions/styles of Muay Thai do have forms.

[YungChun]

Actually, I believe that some versions/styles of Muay Thai do have forms.

I thought so, but was told emphatically, "no" by some MT folks I know. It may have been part of the old world version of the style.

In any case you could make one up, no? :)

That new one they made up for VT is lame.. They should have just done the dummy form without the dummy..

[Frost]

How are those BJJ/MT forms coming along? :D



oh i see so styles without forms need not apply, since some forms of southern mantis only teach roads and not forms they should not apply then, same for the bagua guys that don't do forms just single palm changes.....but anyone doing a modern wushu form can join in cool :rolleyes:

Yes old school thai has forms, ell the traditional dance done before each fight would clasify as a form in most schools, afterall it contains the schools signature moves :D
and i am sure i could string enough moves together from BJJ to make up a form, afterall unless the judging pannel is made up of experts from all styles how the f*ck are they going to know if my form is real or not?

[wiz cool c]

I think it is a great idea sound really cool. Hope someone is doing some filming and post it somewhere other then youtube, so I can see it.

[lkfmdc]

ALL STYLES WELCOME:



except




This event is open to traditional martial artist only! Presentation of style solo routine is required.



The fact that the ironly of this is lost on so many is a big part of the problem

[lkfmdc]

PS: if I teach a pile of Muay Thai guys Heian 1 can they entire the competition? you said "shotokan" and Heian 1 is shotokan and pretty much every person on the planet can do it

[Frost]

except



The fact that the ironly of this is lost on so many is a big part of the problem

lol so true:)

[Frost]

PS: if I teach a pile of Muay Thai guys Heian 1 can they entire the competition? you said "shotokan" and Heian 1 is shotokan and pretty much every person on the planet can do it

LMAO i would love to see this :D

[SAAMAG]

Perhaps he's just trying to make it where its not another MMA match? Muay Thai and BJJ are great, but he's looking for the guys who don't do things that can be classified as "sports" as well.

I guess that means Sanshou's out too.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Is this the same comps that Adrian (Luke) once competed in, Phil? Or a different one?

[Phil Redmond]

oh i see so styles without forms need not apply, since some forms of southern mantis only teach roads and not forms they should not apply then, same for the bagua guys that don't do forms just single palm changes.....but anyone doing a modern wushu form can join in cool :rolleyes:

Yes old school thai has forms, ell the traditional dance done before each fight would clasify as a form in most schools, afterall it contains the schools signature moves :D
and i am sure i could string enough moves together from BJJ to make up a form, afterall unless the judging pannel is made up of experts from all styles how the f*ck are they going to know if my form is real or not?
I didn't make the rules. The people who are running the show did. Personally, it shouldn't matter what style a person does. With regards to the forms the original MT did have forms and I don't mean the dance before modern MT matches. I know this because I watched forms practice when I was a Marine in Thailand.

[Phil Redmond]

Perhaps he's just trying to make it where its not another MMA match? Muay Thai and BJJ are great, but he's looking for the guys who don't do things that can be classified as "sports" as well.

I guess that means Sanshou's out too.
From what I heard for the people running the event they want to have people who have forms in their respective styles get out there and try what they've been learning to test if it works or not.

[lkfmdc]

From what I heard for the people running the event they want to have people who have forms in their respective styles get out there and try what they've been learning to test if it works or not.

Not actually singling you out in particular, these are general observations but wouldn't it be better to test what you do against those who know what they are doing as opposed to others who might just be clueless themselves?

I was raised to think that CMA was superior to ALL and that you proved it in fights. Today I don't necessarrily believe the hype but I do think that if you want to see where you sit on the scale you open the field up

[Ultimatewingchun]

Nothing wrong with these kinds of comps, imo, since TMA's have taken a credibility hit in recent decades (due to the mma craze) for not enough hard contact sparring/fighting tournaments/comps against other stylists, etc.

This kind of thing is a good place to start for many TMA guys.

And if they graduate to more open fighting tournaments as time passes - all the better...

including eventually against stylists who use wrestling, grappling, takedowns, and groundfighting as part of (or mostly all of) their game.

You've got to start somehere, and these kinds of comps might be just the place for many TMA guys to get some good hard contact fighting experience against people not from their own schools.

[YungChun]

Nothing wrong with these kinds of comps, imo, since TMA's have taken a credibility hit in recent decades (due to the mma craze) for not enough hard contact sparring/fighting tournaments/comps against other stylists, etc.

This kind of thing is a good place to start for many TMA guys.

And if they graduate to more open fighting tournaments as time passes - all the better...

including eventually against stylists who use wrestling, grappling, takedowns, and groundfighting as part of (or mostly all of) their game.

You've got to start somehere, and these kinds of comps might be just the place for many TMA guys to get some good hard contact fighting experience against people not from their own schools.

Agreed and who wants to see fight after fight go to the ground? Not me anyway.. If they did almost none of those guys would get the chance to actually use their stuff..

If anyone has ever sparred with other Southern styles you know it can be a very interesting experience and the VT feels very much at home.. a good experience..

[Phil Redmond]

Not actually singling you out in particular, these are general observations but wouldn't it be better to test what you do against those who know what they are doing as opposed to others who might just be clueless themselves?

I was raised to think that CMA was superior to ALL and that you proved it in fights. Today I don't necessarrily believe the hype but I do think that if you want to see where you sit on the scale you open the field up
Like I said previously. It wasn't my idea. Our guys in S.NJ fight all styles. You can contact the people who run the show for their explanation.

[Phil Redmond]

Nothing wrong with these kinds of comps, imo, since TMA's have taken a credibility hit in recent decades (due to the mma craze) for not enough hard contact sparring/fighting tournaments/comps against other stylists, etc.

This kind of thing is a good place to start for many TMA guys.

And if they graduate to more open fighting tournaments as time passes - all the better...

including eventually against stylists who use wrestling, grappling, takedowns, and groundfighting as part of (or mostly all of) their game.

You've got to start somehere, and these kinds of comps might be just the place for many TMA guys to get some good hard contact fighting experience against people not from their own schools.
You took the words right out of my mouth. People who want to compete go to MT, Boxing, or MMA gyms. "Most" people in TMA schools join for various reasons. Introducing them to some fighting is better than none at all.

[YungChun]

You took the words right out of my mouth. People who want to compete go to MT, Boxing, or MMA gyms. "Most" people in TMA schools join for various reasons. Introducing them to some fighting is better than none at all.

What's the rule-set? It might be interesting to see how MT folks would do... If in fact they have forms well.. Then they would qualify no?

I know over the years there have been some good CMA fighters in these events...

But ya know...

Even losing to a MT guy could inspire a fighter in a T/CMA to train harder..... :)

[Frost]

Agreed and who wants to see fight after fight go to the ground? Not me anyway.. If they did almost none of those guys would get the chance to actually use their stuff..

If anyone has ever sparred with other Southern styles you know it can be a very interesting experience and the VT feels very much at home.. a good experience..

so what you are basically saying is that traditional styles suck at wrestling and ground fighting so lets not even bother trying to fight there?

and if they allowed the thai guys to fight i am sure one or two fights might finish standing :D

of course VT would feel at home against other short hand styles that basically train and fight in the same way and the same range, i would hae thought it would have been better to fight styles that are alien to it so you can properly judge its effectiveness

[Frost]

Not actually singling you out in particular, these are general observations but wouldn't it be better to test what you do against those who know what they are doing as opposed to others who might just be clueless themselves?

I was raised to think that CMA was superior to ALL and that you proved it in fights. Today I don't necessarrily believe the hype but I do think that if you want to see where you sit on the scale you open the field up

good points whats the point in holding a competition but then limiting who can attend?

if you want to try your stuff against other styles why not invite the best along, you can always limit it to novices who have had no real fights thats the best way to level the playing field

[YungChun]

so what you are basically saying is that traditional styles suck at wrestling and ground fighting so lets not even bother trying to fight there?


I'm sorry, which TCMA is it that is focused on or even does ground??????

Or is it their take down defense you're interested in testing?:rolleyes:

Or perhaps you were advocating BJJ folks testing their stand up game?

The point is to allow these TMA to DO what they DO which is mainly stand-up..



and if they allowed the thai guys to fight i am sure one or two fights might finish standing :D

I advocated allowing MT.



of course VT would feel at home against other short hand styles that basically train and fight in the same way and the same range,


So you figure most VT and other folks have tons of experience fighting other Southern CMA (or any TMA) because we all live in Southern China? LOL



i would hae thought it would have been better to fight styles that are alien to it so you can properly judge its effectiveness

And that is EXACTLY the point of the event as discussed here..:cool:

[Frost]

I'm sorry, which TCMA is it that is focused on or even does ground??????

Or is it their take down defense you're interested in testing?:rolleyes:

Or perhaps you were advocating BJJ folks testing their stand up game?


The point is to allow these TMA to DO what they DO which is mainly stand-up..:

you are probably right no point in working on that which you suck at far better to ignore the range totally :)

Hang on a minute I thought they already had a venue for that..whats it called again..my memory is terrible...umm oh yeah its called sanshou:cool: why not fight in an established enviroment that allows the best guys to take part?



So you figure most VT and other folks have tons of experience fighting other Southern CMA (or any TMA) because we all live in Southern China? LOL:

nope i figure that since most southern systems are largely either alike or designed to fight one another then letting in styles that are alien might be an idea, you know one that doesn't include the centre line, doesn't believe in the bridge or use floating sinking spitting etc and doesn't play sticking hands might be an idea but hey who I am to make such radical suggestions :rolleyes:



And that is EXACTLY the point of the event as discussed here..:cool:

nope the point of this event seems to be lets ban people that might actually be able to fight and only let those that can perform a form join in but hey thats cool:)

[Ultimatewingchun]

Graduating to sanshou from events like this one could easily happen - you've got to start somewhere. Why not comps like this?

[YungChun]

you are probably right no point in working on that which you suck at far better to ignore the range totally :)

Hyperbolic nonsense..

Nothing wrong with stand-up events...sorry..



Hang on a minute I thought they already had a venue for that..whats it called again..my memory is terrible...umm oh yeah its called sanshou:cool: why not fight in an established enviroment that allows the best guys to take part?

Why not just let these folks enjoy their event for what it is???



nope i figure that since most southern systems are largely either alike or designed to fight one another then letting in styles that are alien might be an idea, you know one that doesn't include the centre line, doesn't believe in the bridge or use floating sinking spitting etc and doesn't play sticking hands might be an idea but hey who I am to make such radical suggestions :rolleyes:

You are entitled to your opinion but I disagree..

The fact is that most of these folks or many of them have no such experience and so doing it will be just as new and valid as anything else. Moreover, folks from many styles are represented--a very diverse environment, which is a great thing. And as I said I don't see why MT should not be allowed, but that's their call.



nope the point of this event seems to be lets ban people that might actually be able to fight and only let those that can perform a form join in but hey thats cool:)
No the idea is to give those folks a venue to step into.... These kinds of events are great learning opportunities for many despite the negative spin you give it.

[Phil Redmond]

. . .
Hang on a minute I thought they already had a venue for that..whats it called again..my memory is terrible...umm oh yeah its called sanshou:cool: why not fight in an established enviroment that allows the best guys to take part? . . . .
We do just that at our NJ school.
Our guys compete in the international Lei Tai events. ;)

[Phil Redmond]

Light Weights fights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiItXWGYU1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Zr2PEKK_E

Heavy weight fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ_tTAAxY_s

Our guys did ok. The Moy Yat guys from Philly really shined. :)
I have to go to rehearsal for the play now but I'll post more clips later on tonight. There were lots of good fights.
Phil

[Pacman]

I'm sorry, which TCMA is it that is focused on or even does ground??????

snake boxing and di su

[Lee Chiang Po]

Phil, not wanting to make you upset or anything, but this all looked like an effort at MMA like I see on TV. But, this is understandable as this is what happens when you go into a sport fighting mode with any form of MA. It happens every time, and this time is no different.
Of course that only 3 clips and not enough to speak for the entire event. Post some good stuff when you get loose.

[Phil Redmond]

Phil, not wanting to make you upset or anything, but this all looked like an effort at MMA like I see on TV. But, this is understandable as this is what happens when you go into a sport fighting mode with any form of MA. It happens every time, and this time is no different.
Of course that only 3 clips and not enough to speak for the entire event. Post some good stuff when you get loose.

Why would I get upset? .:)
You do what you can when someone is trying to take your head off. They're amateurs but at least they're fighting and learning from their fights. I personally didn't expect to see perfectly choreographed kung fu movie techniques. Even pros don't always pull off perfect techniques, especially under pressure. ;) I can say that the taekwondo and karate guys looked like what they do in class.

[YungChun]

Our guys did ok. The Moy Yat guys from Philly really shined. :)


Congrats Phil.. Nice to hear good things about the Moy guys too.. I guess those were Pete's guys... Any video of them?

Thanks..

[Frost]

Light Weights fights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiItXWGYU1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Zr2PEKK_E

Heavy weight fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ_tTAAxY_s

Our guys did ok. The Moy Yat guys from Philly really shined. :)
I have to go to rehearsal for the play now but I'll post more clips later on tonight. There were lots of good fights.
Phil

thanks phil some nice stuff in the first fight, black lad has some nice takedowns, white lad some nice escapes but neither looked like they knew how to hold position on the ground. Some nice stand up, black lad had his hands a little low and paid for this when he ate that head kick lol.

What were the rules? they seemed at allow some ground work but break it up at odd times, like when mounted or when the guy had his back standing?

As for the heavyweights that was terrible lol neither looked like they had been hit before had terrible conditioning and both kept turning away and walking off when hit.

[Phil Redmond]

thanks phil some nice stuff in the first fight, black lad has some nice takedowns, white lad some nice escapes but neither looked like they knew how to hold position on the ground. Some nice stand up, black lad had his hands a little low and paid for this when he ate that head kick lol.

What were the rules? they seemed at allow some ground work but break it up at odd times, like when mounted or when the guy had his back standing?

As for the heavyweights that was terrible lol neither looked like they had been hit before had terrible conditioning and both kept turning away and walking off when hit.
I agree with everything you said. The guys are obviously new at this. Hopefully they will learn from their experiences. I also agree that it's difficult to maintain a "traditional" look in these events. ;)

[Phil Redmond]

. . . .
What were the rules? they seemed at allow some ground work but break it up at odd times, like when mounted or when the guy had his back standing? . . . .
Sorry, I for got to answer this in my previous post. There was a 10 second grappling rule. If you started out grappling while standing you had 10 seconds to do something unless you both went to the ground then you had 10 more seconds. After that the ref would break you apart.

[Phil Redmond]

Some Wing Chun guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJHdEYGBe2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVdP3EdClR4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dHBwToTjPw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60MdHioMEE

Yeah, I know you're going to say where is the textbook WC but at least they are fighting unlike most of the critics who never competed. This comment isn't for those who have competed. You people know that you try to pull off what you can under pressure. Those who haven't competed and have only "sparred in the "comfort zone" of student/friends/classmates, etc., will never understand. And yes, I know I competed back in the 70's and 80's, and early 90's. But at least I did test what I was doing. So I do know a "little" bit about competing. I didn't really get to train the two TWC guys who fought. I didn't really see what I expected from the students who trained at Keith Mazza's school. I will have hands on for the next fights in July though.

[Phil Redmond]

0:45 seconds of this clip says it all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnZdEIrC-u4&feature=autofb
Those in the NYC area are welcome to test what they do. There is too much negative talk by guys who can't/don't/never competed.

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bjYBkzW1s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjP4IDz1FPk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-MT9PU8bmQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDq3LZInV6Q

[Pacman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bjYBkzW1s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjP4IDz1FPk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-MT9PU8bmQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDq3LZInV6Q

i have been critical of other videos, but i wouldnt say that about these particular guys. i can see WC in what they do

[Frost]

Sorry, I for got to answer this in my previous post. There was a 10 second grappling rule. If you started out grappling while standing you had 10 seconds to do something unless you both went to the ground then you had 10 more seconds. After that the ref would break you apart.

fair enough although i would have liked to have even seen longer on the ground or not allow it at all, 10 seconds just isn't long enough, but at least the guys were testing themselves in a hard enviroment fair play to them

[Lindley]

Hello All,

I extend my sincerest appreciation to Sifu Redmond for inviting us to participate in this event. It was a pleasure meeting him and the other Wing Chun students.

It is my opinion that all competitors "represent" only themselves, not their styles, schools or Sifus. These events serve as good experiences for all those who have questions not only about their ability but about facing a challenge to see what would you do. My guys were not as prepared as they should have been, but that was the point in the end. They learned that they need to start listening, start extracting the ideas from their training so they can understand application. To start understanding how serious it is to train for these type of events.

As Wing Chun people, it is important for us to learn in our training how to commit ourselves (to our opponent) and trust our "tools". Without this, you tend to go into "survival" mode and disengage from the most basic concepts of your Kung Fu. You begin to leave yourself wide open for even a not so good fighter who has the desire to punch and kick a target.

This event is not for the light at heart. Real punches and kicks. You can really get hurt if not careful. I think the promoters did a pretty good job, for what it was.

I am very proud of my students efforts as I am sure now they might show up a little more regularly to class and my house for discussions. Tonight we are going to review this event and more about what sparring really entails.

Jay

Good luck in your Kung Fu....