Video vs. Franchise MA schools

[Shaolindynasty]

I found this video interesting. I have some comments but I'll save it until some of you weight in.

"The truth behind martial arts franchise schools exposed"

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvAiSaBGaj8

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5UE76TcADo

[uki]

franchise schools... LOL... i can think of one from new york... these people view martial arts as a business and that's all fine and dandy, but it doesn't make them a good martial artist because they have a few schools - it makes them a good business person. you should see what some passes as an online video instruction... there's this one numbnut who plays with a sledgehammer, but his strength is infantile. hehehe...

[yutyeesam]

Watching his other videos, it looks like this guy in general has a problem with turning martial arts into a commercial business, which is an old argument.

If Doc Fai Wong didn't have a franchise, I'm guessing this dude would not have the CLF knowledge he does now (he didn't do the best job concealing where he had his franchise involvement).

[grasshopper 2.0]

interesting stuff.. a lot of this applies to sales. rehearsed dialogue, knowing how to counter typical questions. the question then comes, how does a school grow its business without similar tactics? usually a school grows and dies when the teacher dies.

[David Jamieson]

Both videos amounted to whining sessions because the idea of having a commerce aspect to martial arts.

There were a lot of misconceptions expressed and heaping helpings of projections of that individuals ideas about how things "should" be.

I found the videos to be fairly egotistical in scope and more than a bit whiny.

It's a tired old argument and there is nothing new to say about it apparently.
I personally so not support those views.

people will do as they will and it is their prerogative to do so just as it may be your
prerogative to not bother with them. :-)

[bawang]

chinese jesus hong xiou quan would not have approved of franchises. if he was alive he would crush them without mercy then take all their womans as his concubine


personally i think theres nothing wrong with a kung fu franchise, but only if u earned it.
i think gracies definitely deserve franchise. great master tu jing shen deserves a franchise because he pulled a airplane with his peenis. what did doc fei wong and sin the ever do? i dont know.

[TenTigers]

. what did doc fei wong and sin the ever do? i dont know.
Actually, Doc Fai-Wong has been a huge driving force in promoting Traditional Chinese Martial Arts for decades. I have followed his articles and books ever since 1973 Inside Kung-Fu first featured him. His articles were extremely informative, and he brought ideas and concepts to the general non-Chinese public from behind the "Bamboo Curtain." His book on CLF is still one of the best books in English on Southern Gung-Fu. In it, he outlines strikes, usage as well as two beginner forms, Ng Lun Ma and Ng Lun Choy in explicit detail.
His article on Dit Da Jow was possibly the first to actually share full formulas and instructions of making it.
He was also the first to have instructional videos on CLF, broken down in regular speed, slow motion, different angles as well as applications.

oh, and No, I am not, nor have ever been connected with his organization. I simply have been involved in MA for over 35 yrs, and appreciate his contributions.

[TenTigers]

Both videos amounted to whining sessions because the idea of having a commerce aspect to martial arts.

There were a lot of misconceptions expressed and heaping helpings of projections of that individuals ideas about how things "should" be.

I found the videos to be fairly egotistical in scope and more than a bit whiny.

It's a tired old argument and there is nothing new to say about it apparently.
I personally so not support those views.

people will do as they will and it is their prerogative to do so just as it may be your
prerogative to not bother with them. :-)

well said. sounds like a whiney, spoiled child.

[MasterKiller]

Yeah, big suprise! The guy who can't afford his own school and teaches in the park hates people that have nice schools with mats to protect their students.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think the problem is NOT with the premise of "franchise" but the execution.
GM Park Jong Soo here in Toronto, has TKD franchises and there are some very good ones and some not so good.
It depends on the teacher and sometimes Master Park was to "eager" to allow one of his guys to open a school.
Quality control is the key, especially when you are putting your name to a product.

Someone that maintains a strict quality program can have successful franchises and they can put out a quality product.

[bawang]

Actually, Doc Fai-Wong has been a huge driving force in promoting Traditional Chinese Martial Arts for decades. I have followed his articles and books ever since 1973 Inside Kung-Fu first featured him. His articles were extremely informative, and he brought ideas and concepts to the general non-Chinese public from behind the "Bamboo Curtain." His book on CLF is still one of the best books in English on Southern Gung-Fu. In it, he outlines strikes, usage as well as two beginner forms, Ng Lun Ma and Ng Lun Choy in explicit detail.
His article on Dit Da Jow was possibly the first to actually share full formulas and instructions of making it.
He was also the first to have instructional videos on CLF, broken down in regular speed, slow motion, different angles as well as applications.

oh, and No, I am not, nor have ever been connected with his organization. I simply have been involved in MA for over 35 yrs, and appreciate his contributions.
i think although he is nice for promoting kung fu , gracies also promoted their martial arts but differently

i think the latino guy in the youtube has a point about franchising pushing out competitors. theres no kung fu diversity in america

[TenTigers]

i think although he is nice for promoting kung fu , gracies also promoted their martial arts but differently

Sure. DFW could have set up televised full-contact Sanshou matches pitting point- fighters against seasoned fighters throwing sow choy and cup choy and taken their heads off, thus proving the superiority of CLF, and created a venue and ruleset for this to grow.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sure. DFW could have set up televised full-contact Sanshou matches pitting point- fighters against seasoned fighters throwing sow choy and cup choy and taken their heads off, thus proving the superiority of CLF, and created a venue and ruleset for this to grow.

**** disturber alert !!

[TenTigers]

BTW-Gracies have created a BJJ "Lite," or "EZ BJJ" mini course, complete with certification, belts, marketing strategies, etc directed at commercial school owners to place in their schools.

[TenTigers]

Sure. DFW could have set up televised full-contact Sanshou matches pitting point- fighters against seasoned fighters throwing sow choy and cup choy and taken their heads off, thus proving the superiority of CLF, and created a venue and ruleset for this to grow.

wish I'd thought of that sooner..we could all be wearing sow choy t-shirts by now...

[sanjuro_ronin]

BTW-Gracies have created a BJJ "Lite," or "EZ BJJ" mini course, complete with certification, belts, marketing strategies, etc directed at commercial school owners to place in their schools.

Smart guys.

[Shaolindynasty]

I think his stance takes away the personal responsibility of the potential student when they are looking to start martial arts. They make the choice, sign the contract or not.

I agree that aspects of the martial arts are overly commercial. On the other hand I've always wondered why people think it's wrong to make money from martial arts. I've heard alot of southern style practitoners praised for not charging much to their students because they make their money from their dit da clinic. charging money for martial arts lessons=bad, doctor charging sick people money= good:confused:

[KC Elbows]

A talented, driven student negotiates his own price, imo. His selection of the teacher is a benefit and honor to the teacher, and a good teacher recognizes this.

The rest should not be tricked into paying more for what they aren't ever going to accomplish.

A teacher who overcharges the first is an idiot. One who oversharges the rest is a cad.

Aside from that, I have no problem with someone earning their living.

[uki]

martial arts should be taught free of charge... not meaning you have to teach eveyone, but those who are mean't to learn will seek out a master, that is why it is said that when the student is ready, the master will appear... this is a profound concept that only a select few on the boards can relate to. :)

[Drake]

martial arts should be taught free of charge... not meaning you have to teach eveyone, but those who are mean't to learn will seek out a master, that is why it is said that when the student is ready, the master will appear... this is a profound concept that only a select few on the boards can relate to. :)

Then who would pay the rent, utilities, and keep the teacher and his family fed? Nothing is free.

[uki]

Nothing is free.life is free.

[Drake]

life is free.

Heh... you actually believe that. Life is short, usually abruptly ended, and mostly spent under the control of something, be it man-made or natural.

[uki]

Heh... you actually believe that. Life is short, usually abruptly ended, and mostly spent under the control of something, be it man-made or natural.might aswell embrace the mindset of true freedom then, eh?? :p

[Drake]

Might as well tell me who will pay for the teacher's living expenses. Especially if they have a family. I'd also like to see how you'd get people to teach if there was no way of supporting themselves with it.

They don't need nice cars and big houses, but they certainly expect some sort of compensation for their expertise and hard work. Doing it for free wouldn't even begin to work.

[uki]

They don't need nice cars and big houses, but they certainly expect some sort of compensation for their expertise and hard work. Doing it for free wouldn't even begin to work.well for starters... i'm a stone mason - works just fine for me... :p

[Drake]

I don't know who you train from, but this is a full time job, usually with them working well over what most people work. It's probably closer to my 60+ hour work week.

[SoCo KungFu]

Actually, Doc Fai-Wong has been a huge driving force in promoting Traditional Chinese Martial Arts for decades. I have followed his articles and books ever since 1973 Inside Kung-Fu first featured him. His articles were extremely informative, and he brought ideas and concepts to the general non-Chinese public from behind the "Bamboo Curtain." His book on CLF is still one of the best books in English on Southern Gung-Fu. In it, he outlines strikes, usage as well as two beginner forms, Ng Lun Ma and Ng Lun Choy in explicit detail.
His article on Dit Da Jow was possibly the first to actually share full formulas and instructions of making it.
He was also the first to have instructional videos on CLF, broken down in regular speed, slow motion, different angles as well as applications.

oh, and No, I am not, nor have ever been connected with his organization. I simply have been involved in MA for over 35 yrs, and appreciate his contributions.

Yeah but until he moves large objects through will, strength and testicular tenacity then he hasn't accomplished anything...

[TenTigers]

martial arts should be taught free of charge... not meaning you have to teach eveyone, but those who are mean't to learn will seek out a master, that is why it is said that when the student is ready, the master will appear... this is a profound concept that only a select few on the boards can relate to. :)

what, appear on your doorstep with his bags, ready to move in?
You have a house made of rocks. Unless he's Grandmaster Flintstone, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Drake]

chinese jesus hong xiou quan would not have approved of franchises. if he was alive he would crush them without mercy then take all their womans as his concubine


personally i think theres nothing wrong with a kung fu franchise, but only if u earned it.
i think gracies definitely deserve franchise. great master tu jing shen deserves a franchise because he pulled a airplane with his peenis. what did doc fei wong and sin the ever do? i dont know.

GM DFW has been an awesome teacher. If he's in it for the money, he hasn't been collecting much from me. GM DFW also helped rebuild and restore a number of CLF sites, and has been promoting the art globally for decades. I admire him as a martial artist and a genuinely good person.

[Drake]

Actually, Doc Fai-Wong has been a huge driving force in promoting Traditional Chinese Martial Arts for decades. I have followed his articles and books ever since 1973 Inside Kung-Fu first featured him. His articles were extremely informative, and he brought ideas and concepts to the general non-Chinese public from behind the "Bamboo Curtain." His book on CLF is still one of the best books in English on Southern Gung-Fu. In it, he outlines strikes, usage as well as two beginner forms, Ng Lun Ma and Ng Lun Choy in explicit detail.
His article on Dit Da Jow was possibly the first to actually share full formulas and instructions of making it.
He was also the first to have instructional videos on CLF, broken down in regular speed, slow motion, different angles as well as applications.

oh, and No, I am not, nor have ever been connected with his organization. I simply have been involved in MA for over 35 yrs, and appreciate his contributions.

You should see his distance learning program. Awesome.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Many teachers choose NOT to charge for their instruction, typcially because they have full time jobs and DON'T want to make MA their career.
However, MANY teachers do have MA as their careers and this is nothing new.
It was the case in times past in all parts of the world.
There is no reason for it to be any different now.

[David Jamieson]

martial arts should be taught free of charge... not meaning you have to teach eveyone, but those who are mean't to learn will seek out a master, that is why it is said that when the student is ready, the master will appear... this is a profound concept that only a select few on the boards can relate to. :)

why? why do you think this? This is an empty platitude that someone spouted off once.

No one should expect anyone else to give them their time, their effort and their knowledge for nothing. Do you do that?

If my job skill set is martial arts, there is no way I am working for free for anyone.

And just because you start looking to learn doesn't mean you are ready to learn, it just means you are looking.

You're ready to learn when you get back up, without anger, and continue to work on not being knocked down. :)

[dirtyrat]

"when the student is ready, the master will appear..."

IMHO... the "master" is within. Teachers can only give so much. At a certain point of your study, there's only one person you can rely on. Then the rest is easy.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Teachers give you a core, a base from which to work from, the rest is up to you.
Its the way it has always been.

[dirtyrat]

Too true. A lot of guys don't seem to realize that. They seem to waiting for the teacher to impart some special teaching...

[SanHeChuan]

I haven't seen the videos but there is a distinction to be made here.
That of running your own school, and that of Franchising a school.
You can support yourself just running your own school.
When you start investing in multiple schools you run the risk of the business aspect eclipsing the school aspect. Though having multiple schools is not necessarily bad.

ATA is what I think of when I think of Franchises.

I think the problem people have with franchising is the qualities they associate with it like;
It's generic.
The lack of quality control.
The Long term expensive contracts. No one should have to sign a 3 year contract on their first day.
Expensive testing fees. There is a hundred and one belts so that they can charge you testing fees every month
Marked up equipment costs.

The marketing is kind of dishonest.
They capitalize on people’s ignorance.
They use stock photos of models who aren't students and not of the school.
They avoid giving out any real information about the school or the style taught.
If I can't tell what style you teach by you webpage, I have a problem with that.

I don’t have a problem with instructors picking up BJJ, after school programs, or krav maga certificates to boost consumer appeal. I do have a problem with kung fu schools advertising as karate/kickboxing/self-defense schools.

http://www.austinfitnessmartialarts.com/ (http://www.austinfitnessmartialarts.com/) or http://www.ilovekickboxingaustin.com/ (http://www.ilovekickboxingaustin.com/)
This is a good kung fu school, but you could never tell that from the website. It's not a franchise school, but is using one those consulting services that model themselves on "successful" franchises. I think the second website is from the consulting service of someone on this board who is a certain deservedly respected Lama Pai Sifu. Can't say I agree with his website design, or marketing campaign, though. If I found either of these websites when I was looking for kung fu schools I would have never gone to this school. Maybe it's just my prejudice here, is there anyone here who would honestly give this school a second look after seeing those websites?

[Shaolindynasty]

1 Thing about paying for training I think most westerners have a misconception about is that they think in the "old days" sifu's taught for free. When actually in the old days students were not only required to support the sifu with money but also was supposed to perform any kind of labor the sifu required, and not on a voluntary basis.

@ Sanhechuan- thats what the video is about to some extent

[bawang]

in the past some people taught for free, some people taught to make a living, i think both is ok. but they all had to fight a lot of people to get famous. i think we shud do that today too

[SanHeChuan]

@ Sanhechuan- thats what the video is about to some extent

Having watched the video now, I'd say the dude has a beef with a local chain school doing dirty business. It got a little dramatic and over the top, trying to emulate pop conspiracy videos. Dude definitely had a chip on his shoulder, but who doesn’t after realizing they’ve been taken in by a crap school, weather it was Shaolin-do, ATA, Chung Moo Doe, or some other Cult or Mcdojo.

If you charge alot of money you better provide quaility instruction to back it up, otherwise people have a right to complain.

[TenTigers]

many schools use standard salesmanship-leading the client to the close, overcoming objections, closing the sale, and there are scripts that through research, have been proven tried and true by the top people in the industry. It's simply teaching someone what to say and what not to say in order to lead them to the close. It's called, professionalism. (for the most part, when someone has walked into your school, they have already made up their minds to train. You simply have to allow them to sign up without putting your foot in your mouth and leading them out the door instead-which many untrained people do.)
When you own a business, you want the right people answering the phone, handling walk-ins, info calls, introductory lessons, etc in a professional manner.
When my senior student answers the phone, she says,
"Good morning, this is Sue from Ten Tigers Kung-Fu Academy, may I help you?"
or something similar,
not, "yeah?"
There is a difference between being professional and being commercial.
Whether or not you are a McKwoon depends on the quality of your teaching, not what you charge, have contracts, upgrades, etc.

[SanHeChuan]

There is a difference between being professional and being commercial.
Whether or not you are a McKwoon depends on the quality of your teaching, not what you charge, have contracts, upgrades, etc.

To the Former, that is a good distinction to make. As to the latter, it depends. What you charge should be returned in value. When the contracts are introduced, what options you have, and how long you are required to sign them for, and your ability to get out of them under reasonable circumstances, are factors. Upgrades depend on how often and how much, if you are charging an extra hundred dollars a month every month for testing, you're a McKwoon not matter what. :p
But yes just having those elements does not make you a McKwoon as long as they are judiciously applied.

[hskwarrior]

The Guy in the Video sounds like a conspiracy theorist who's been watching to many of those video's.

[yutyeesam]

If you charge alot of money you better provide quaility instruction to back it up, otherwise people have a right to complain.

It seems like people on the whole in a general sense don't know really what quality instruction really is. Interestingly, martial arts enthusiasts are not the primary target for a franchise martial arts school.

So there will be those few who join who are, and have a critical eye, but they end up leaving, and really doesn't affect the business much, because they weren't really the target in the first place.

And then there are those few schools that strive to appeal to the mainstream who are clueless, but also provide high quality material for advanced martial arts practitioners.

Most adults are looking for fitness and a "sense" of self defense (not necessarily real self defense, because that involves tolerating a lot of pain). And if they break a sweat doing a bunch of kicks, and feel like they can snap away from someone who statically grabs their wrist, they are happy and will keep coming back. To them, that's quality, because they don't know any better.

To the martial arts enthusiast, the system is designed to disuade them from continuing in the organization, if they are not "yes men".

It's like any organization, really. If you are a weak link to their mission, you will leave, either voluntarily or involuntarily. Quality is merely a matter of perception, it varies from someone who knows nothing to an experienced practitioner. In a sense, if you are not a "yes man", there's really no use for you at the organization.

The hard part I'd imagine, is when a school like the one you mentioned, does a complete facelift that once upon a time targeted martial arts enthusiasts, and then shifted its focus to be more mainstream. But it's an organizational reality, any time an org shifts its mission/focus, there will be people lost along the way. But losing those people is justified by the gaining of many more.

[SanHeChuan]

It seems like people on the whole in a general sense don't know really what quality instruction really is. Interestingly, martial arts enthusiasts are not the primary target for a franchise martial arts school.


That is a shame. I understand that many schools get most of their income from the highest turnover group (beginners). So I understand needing to get plenty of new students through the revolving doors. If this is done to keep the doors open for the dedicated students, I’ve got no problem with that. When it’s done just for profit, enthusiasts be d4mn3d, I have a problem with that.


The hard part I'd imagine, is when a school like the one you mentioned, does a complete facelift that once upon a time targeted martial arts enthusiasts, and then shifted its focus to be more mainstream.

Just to be clear the school I linked is still a good kung fu school. :D
They still try to strike that balance between getting the new and keeping the old.

[yutyeesam]

When it’s done just for profit, enthusiasts be d4mn3d, I have a problem with that.

I agree. I guess the hard part is to figure out what is a "reasonable" profit and what isn't. Obviously, bills have to be paid, which includes the instructor's salary. But what is too much or too little, and how is that determined? Hard to say, in an industry that has no governing body of standards! lol (not that it should)




Just to be clear the school I linked is still a good kung fu school. :D
They still try to strike that balance between getting the new and keeping the old.
With you 100%. They are a GREAT and very well respected Kung Fu school in Austin. That website did throw me for a loop. I was like, When did Lama Pai Sifu move to Austin??? :D

[SanHeChuan]

I agree. I guess the hard part is to figure out what is a "reasonable" profit and what isn't. Obviously, bills have to be paid, which includes the instructor's salary. But what is too much or too little, and how is that determined? Hard to say, in an industry that has no governing body of standards! lol (not that it should)

It isn't so much about the dollar amount as it is about priorities. When making money becomes more important than the students that’s when it’s too much.

[SPJ]

every one wants his school and style to grow.

franchise is one way

family owned meaning closed circles of teachers is another way.

as long as they are consistently teaching the same quality of stuff as the first or original school

--

the rest is the problem of people that using the same name but not delivering the same level of teaching or training

the school name would be "de faced"--
or lowered its value

--

MA school is supposed to be about fighting

teaching somebody to be respectful etc or cultural/personalities cultivation

is it not that the church, the school and the parents are supposed to be instilling in the young one ?

--

[Shaolindynasty]

Having watched the video now, I'd say the dude has a beef with a local chain school doing dirty business. It got a little dramatic and over the top, trying to emulate pop conspiracy videos.

Yes! I was looking for a discription of the tone of the video. Kinda like "who killed the electric car" or "loose change". A bit over the top.

As a school owner the hardest thing to do is balance the buisness aspect with the sifu/student personal relationship. We do have to be honest though it is a buisness so at the end of the day the school does need to make money just to survive.

Again why is it ok for doctors to make large somes of money from sick people and it seems unacceptable for a martial artist to make money from his trade? It seems out of wack to me:confused:

[uki]

Again why is it ok for doctors to make large somes of money from sick people and it seems unacceptable for a martial artist to make money from his trade? It seems out of wack to me.i think doctors make way too much money for the services they render... i think this is what the video is alluding to - teacher/master/sifu's who are only about making by playing on peoples ignorance of martial arts, much like people are ignorant of basic health and natural medicines/treatments... being charged 350 dollars to go to the emergency room and quick 5 minutes with a doctor who only tells someone they sprained their ankle is ridiculous... obviously any trade or skill can be used for profit in order to make a living, but it's when people begin to get greedy and shed quality for quantity that is the root of the problem here. :)

[xcakid]

I found this video interesting. I have some comments but I'll save it until some of you weight in.

"The truth behind martial arts franchise schools exposed"

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvAiSaBGaj8

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5UE76TcADo


HAHAH....That's USSD's business model. :D

[SoCo KungFu]

i think doctors make way too much money for the services they render...

Doctors make so much because they go through 8 years of school at minimum and make decisions which have a great effect on the lives of others, even to the point of whether they may have a life or not.


i think this is what the video is alluding to - teacher/master/sifu's who are only about making by playing on peoples ignorance of martial arts, much like people are ignorant of basic health and natural medicines/treatments... being charged 350 dollars to go to the emergency room and quick 5 minutes with a doctor who only tells someone they sprained their ankle is ridiculous...

Praying on you? How about ask some questions next time. They're there to educate you as well as treat. You know for someone who is so initiated to inform the masses of your ideology of free thinking, you are showing both with your overall attitude to things such as law enforcement and now apparently medicine, a significant trend in lacking a notion of "personal responsibility." Its your **** body, maybe you (and everyone) should take some time to actually learn about it. That's 90% of the problem. People want doctors to "fix" everything that breaks whether it can be or not. Maybe if they lived a healthy life of prevention....
And you know, maybe you wouldn't be paying $350 for an ankle sprain if you didn't go to the ER for something any family practice/sports clinic could handle for half that. Oh and ya know, insurance is nice too, you don't have to go to the ER for everything...Oh yeah but you have that thing against systems and all that. Personal responsibility....


obviously any trade or skill can be used for profit in order to make a living, but it's when people begin to get greedy and shed quality for quantity that is the root of the problem here. :)

Agreed, but that will happen in anything. I'm still ****ed about my $4 ice cream. I ASKED FOR EXTRA SPRINKLES!!!

[Jimbo]

Yes! I was looking for a discription of the tone of the video. Kinda like "who killed the electric car" or "loose change". A bit over the top.

As a school owner the hardest thing to do is balance the buisness aspect with the sifu/student personal relationship. We do have to be honest though it is a buisness so at the end of the day the school does need to make money just to survive.

Again why is it ok for doctors to make large somes of money from sick people and it seems unacceptable for a martial artist to make money from his trade? It seems out of wack to me:confused:

I'm sure that most of the people who expect MA teachers to teach free of charge simply want to get something of value for nothing, period. In most cases, it takes every bit as long as any other higher education to be qualified to teach MA. Yet free lessons guarantee nothing. One of my teachers in Taiwan told me he began teaching by offering classes for free. He was a very good and very meticulous young teacher. Yet no one showed up for long. Eventually he wised up and began charging (not overly expensive, but not cheap, either). It was only then that his classes grew and lots of people stayed with him.

I'm sure that there are some good teachers who teach for free and have good students, but in many or most cases, when you don't place a monetary value on what you are offering, that sends a signal to people that you don't value your own product. Therefore, they won't value or respect you as a teacher or your product, either.

Though it's true that when money becomes the be-all and end-all, then it becomes a scam.

[bawang]

I'm sure that most of the people who expect MA teachers to teach free of charge simply want to get something of value for nothing, period. In most cases, it takes every bit as long as any other higher education to be qualified to teach MA. Yet free lessons guarantee nothing. One of my teachers in Taiwan told me he began teaching by offering classes for free. He was a very good and very meticulous young teacher. Yet no one showed up for long. Eventually he wised up and began charging (not overly expensive, but not cheap, either). It was only then that his classes grew and lots of people stayed with him.

I'm sure that there are some good teachers who teach for free and have good students, but in many or most cases, when you don't place a monetary value on what you are offering, that sends a signal to people that you don't value your own product. Therefore, they won't value or respect you as a teacher or your product, either.

Though it's true that when money becomes the be-all and end-all, then it becomes a scam.
hi
i think large number of students doesnt neeccesarily mean succuess. that guy when he taught for free didnt have a lot of students but i think theres nothing wrong with that.

[Lucas]

i think a teacher with 1 really good student would be happy if he only wants to teach for teaching and not to make a living.

[Jimbo]

hi
i think large number of students doesnt neeccesarily mean succuess. that guy when he taught for free didnt have a lot of students but i think theres nothing wrong with that.

Hi, bawang.

I agree that large numbers of students, in itself, doesn't always mean success. According to him, his plan was to find some students to teach for free, and help them develop into good practitioners. At some point, he would be charging new students fees but allow any of those original students to continue free of charge. His goal was to become a professional MA teacher. But as mentioned, not one of the students he taught for free stayed long. After a while (a year?) when he began charging, he found students who would stay, and some eventually became quite good.

The teacher's teaching method hadn't really changed, but people's perceptions changed when he began charging monthly fees.

Oddly enough, one of the persons who quit when he charged nothing returned. When told he was now going to have to pay the fee like everybody else, the student was quite happy to do so, became one of the better practitioners, and remained with him for many years.

Of course, he needed the money to live, as this became his occupation. But to him, money was never a big obsession.

[Shaolindynasty]

not one of the students he taught for free stayed long. After a while (a year?) when he began charging, he found students who would stay, and some eventually became quite good.

This is my experince exactly

[SPJ]

in the old china

there is this private tutoring

you hire a boxer or quan si or boxing teacher

you provide room and board.

he specifically teaches your kids or relatives.

in the old China, people live in a big mansion, there are many rooms and courtyard

---

and of course a salary is paid to the teacher, too.

:cool:

[SPJ]

in the old china

there is this private tutoring

you hire a boxer or quan si or boxing teacher

you provide room and board.

he specifically teaches your kids or relatives.

in the old China, people live in a big mansion, there are many rooms and courtyard

---

and of course a salary is paid to the teacher, too.

:cool:

in that sense, it is not a commercial school or franchise.

private teaching to a few students for many years

while the teacher's living is completely provided for.

--

[uki]

in that sense, it is not a commercial school or franchise.

private teaching to a few students for many years

while the teacher's living is completely provided for.in mycology, this concept is known as a symbiotic relationship. :)

[SPJ]

even today, passing of certain school/lineage of CMA

are still among a few students

in contrast to commercial or tkd classes in every corner of shopping area across the land--

:eek: