How do I strengthen my kidneys?

[David43515]

I recently began doing 8 Piece Brocade to improve overall health, but I specifically want to strengthen my kidneys. Any ideas?

[Scott R. Brown]

Start by having someone lightly tap you on the kidneys.....

then over years have them slowly increase the power of the impact as callouses build up on them!

[taai gihk yahn]

first off, are you talking about "kidneys" from a TCM perspective or from a contemporary anatomical one, because those are two entirely different things - in TCM, "kidney" refers to more than just the physical organ, and in fact includes a variety of signs / symptoms that have nothing to do with the contemporary understanding of that specific organ's function; so you need to be very clear on which definition you are talking about; second, what do you mean by "strengthen"? again, from a TCM perspective it will be very different from what constitutes "strong" kidney function from a biomedical one; also, how will you measure your success? do you have documented kidney pathology, either from TCM or biomedical perspective, that you want to address? if not, how will you gauge your progress? for example, will you have a TCM or allopathic medical exam and then get re-examined to see if anything has improved after you've been practicing for a time? if not, how will you judge on your own?

that said, I am sure you will get many suggestions about how to "strengthen" kidneys from people on the forum - you just might want to apply a little of the above critical reasoning before accepting wholesale whatever it is they assure you will work...

except for Scott; anything that Scott says is Truth™, and I would do EXACTLY what he says, until your ears bleed...

[Scott R. Brown]

...anything that Scott says is Truth™, and I would do EXACTLY what he says, until your ears bleed...

Well....in this case it would be until your urine bleeds!!

The more blood in your urine, the more you know you are doing it correctly!

But once kidney failure occurs.....you know you have gone to far; and this is where one demonstrates his kung fu!

Without kung fu you will most likely go too far!

[David43515]

Okay, I was thinking in the TCM sense and the various effects on the whole system, rather than the western medical idea of just the kidney organ and it`s filtering function.
I don`t have any specifically identified pathology and no kidney troubles in the western sense. I`ve just noticed less energy in general as I hit middle age and a few other signs that different chi gung books mention as being signs of "weak kidneys". I haven`t given any thought to how I`d measure any progress other than perhaps having more energy or higher sex drive, maybe a little less stiffness in my lower back.

I`ve just gotten back into a weight training regimen, and I`m begining to learn the 8 Peice Brocade, and I`m begining to notice I feel alot better, but I figured I`d ask around. I`m very new at any kind of Chi Kung and don`t know much of anything about herbal meds. I just figured this would be the place to ask if anyone had any personal experiance or ideas.

[Dragonzbane76]

Drink one gallon of moonshine a day. It will hollow you out so as you won't have to worry about internal crap any more. :p

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi David,

Alert-This time I am serious!

The best thing you can do is exercise and diet. The loss of energy most people experience as they age is due to the beginning of slow deterioration of their body. For men, the reduction in the production testosterone is also a factor.

Weight training will help stimulate testosterone production, specifically squats and deadlifts done for lower reps of 3-5.

Also an aerobics training program. A minimum of 30 mins a day 5-6 days a week, with perhaps two days a week of 60 mins. You will feel a distinct difference between 30 mins and 60 mins of aerobics, meaning you will feel like you have more energy after 60 mins of aerobic activity than 30 mins.

Aerobics produces endorphins which is the body's natural mood elevator and pain reliever.

Be sure to start slow and work up to it with both of these if you are starting out from scratch. Most people overdo it at the beginning and then give up because they feel rotten from overdoing it!

As far as diet is concerned, eat healthy most of the time, reducing carbohydrate consumption, increasing healthy proteins (lean beef, chicken and fish) and healthy fats, such as nuts (almonds and walnuts; one handful a day should do). Take some good fish oil, and keep an eye on unnecessary sugars (cake, candy, soda pop, donuts, etc.) in your diet and too much caffeine. Both will give you a temporary high only to drop your mood when they wear off.

Try this! It will work for everyone assuming there is no other disease process going on!

Good Luck!

[Hendrik]

I recently began doing 8 Piece Brocade to improve overall health, but I specifically want to strengthen my kidneys. Any ideas?

1, Dont mess around with any organ training seperately. If your 8 piece brocade is an authentic one, it will have a balancing design which aids all the internal organs and their inter-relationship via the five elements balancing concept.


2, to strengthen kidney means to make the kidneys work less by taking low protien diet with lots vegi/fruits , full grain, or good carb. no salt , no softdrink, and cut down sex.

3, go to bed before 11PM.

4, no exhaust/ draining type of harsh exercise such as fast running...etc. or even prolong time of airobic....etc. since this drain the Qi.

5, even if one did the kidneys strengthening Qigong which there is such a thing. one still needs to do the1, 2 , 3, and 4 above. otherwise, it doesnt have much benifit or even damaging.

[Scott R. Brown]

Don't listen to Hendrik about the exercise. I have been a state class swimmer and have trained people in the martial arts, swimming, and weight training. I have been training seriously for 40 years, all he is, is a skinny old man!

All exercise, if done too much too soon, will drain you. THAT is why you work up to it. If you work up to one hour of aerobics 2 days a week and 30 mins 2-4 days a week the proof will be in the pudding.

You will have MORE energy after your 60 min aerobic activity than your 30 min aerobic activity. If you don't all it means is you over did it!

[Scott R. Brown]

BTW:

Scientific literature supports everything I have mentioned about weight training and aerobic activity.

Hendrik relies of traditional fantasy NOT supported by scientific literature!

[Hendrik]

If you were born stronger and healty then others then you can take that.

However, what with those who were born weak or those who already has some imbalance or problem in their internal organs?

Will you take responsibility if they follow your instruction if that cause problem to them? Sure it is not you who suffer and it is at their expense.

Given advise to strengthen Kidney by taking more protein which increase the work load of kidney is suicide.
Those who has kidney problem cannot effort to have heavy exercise period. any one who have basic knowledge know that.

All the Qigong if it is the authentic one; instead of draining the practitioner, help the person circulation; and promote Ku Pen Pei Yuan or strenghten the original core since cutting down or totally cut of sex activity to preserve Yuan Qi. Thus, that is not the usual exercise.


Confucious said, If one know say so, if one know not say so.
One must take responsibility on one's word.






Don't listen to Hendrik about the exercise. I have been a state class swimmer and have trained people in the martial arts, swimming, and weight training. I have been training seriously for 40 years, all he is, is a skinny old man!

All exercise, if done too much too soon, will drain you. THAT is why you work up to it. If you work up to one hour of aerobics 2 days a week and 30 mins 2-4 days a week the proof will be in the pudding.

You will have MORE energy after your 60 min aerobic activity than your 30 min aerobic activity. If you don't all it means is you over did it!

[Hendrik]

BTW:

Scientific literature supports everything I have mentioned about weight training and aerobic activity.

Hendrik relies of traditional fantasy NOT supported by scientific literature!


No comment on your behavior of doing anything to defend yourself on other's expense.

[Scott R. Brown]

However, what with those who were born weak or those who already has some imbalance or problem in their internal organs?

Will you take responsibility if they follow your instruction if that cause problem to them? Sure it is not you who suffer and it is at their expense.

Given advise to strengthen Kidney by taking more protein which increase the work load of kidney is suicide.
Those who has kidney problem cannot effort to have heavy exercise period. any one who have basic knowledge know that.

All the Qigong if it is the authentic one; instead of draining the practitioner, help the person circulation; and promote Ku Pen Pei Yuan or strenghten the original core since cutting down or totally cut of sex activity to preserve Yuan Qi. Thus, that is not the usual exercise.


Confucious said, If one know say so, if one know not say so.
One must take responsibility on one's word.

You are not paying attention. He does not have kidney disease. If he had kidney disease he should see a nephrologist and ignore you completely!


I don`t have any specifically identified pathology and no kidney troubles in the western sense. I`ve just noticed less energy in general as I hit middle age and a few other signs that different chi gung books mention as being signs of "weak kidneys". I haven`t given any thought to how I`d measure any progress other than perhaps having more energy or higher sex drive, maybe a little less stiffness in my lower back.

That means he is experiencing the generalized changes that accompany aging, part of which is a reduction in testosterone production.

The advice I have given him are scientifically demonstrated to give him the results he is looking for!

Squats and deadlifts in lower repetitions are demonstrated to increase testosterone production even in older men. Aerobic activity increases the production of endorphins the body's NATURAL mood elevator!

You offer him fantasy results based upon tradition. The same tradition that fed mercury pills to patients in order to increase their vitality!


No comment on your behavior of doing anything to defend yourself on other's expense.

Good idea! Quit before you embarrass yourself even more!

[Hendrik]

I sure let you be who you love to be.



You are not paying attention. He does not have kidney disease. If he had kidney disease he should see a nephrologist and ignore you completely!



That means he is experiencing the generalized changes that accompany aging, part of which is a reduction in testosterone production.

The advice I have given him are scientifically demonstrated to give him the results he is looking for!

Squats and deadlifts in lower repetitions are demonstrated to increase testosterone production even in older men. Aerobic activity increases the production of endorphins the body's NATURAL mood elevator!

You offer him fantasy results based upon tradition. The same tradition that fed mercury pills to patients in order to increase their vitality!



Good idea! Quit before you embarrass yourself even more!

[Scott R. Brown]

I sure let you be who you love to be.

Thankfully I don't need your permission!

[taai gihk yahn]

Thankfully I don't need your permission!

No, actually, according to the forum's Terms of Use
Agreement, you do...

[Scott R. Brown]

No, actually, according to the forum's Terms of Use
Agreement, you do...

OUCH!:eek:

[taai gihk yahn]

OUCH!:eek:

Yeah, it's in the "Self-proclaimed Masters of Qi" sub-section under the "If You Have a Strong Opinion It Must Be True and Anyone Who Asks You to Substantiate Your Claims Must Be Wrong" clause

u shud really check these things before bringing ur crazy-talk on here...

[Scott R. Brown]

Yeah, it's in the "Self-proclaimed Masters of Qi" sub-section under the "If You Have a Strong Opinion It Must Be True and Anyone Who Asks You to Substantiate Your Claims Must Be Wrong" clause

u shud really check these things before bringing ur crazy-talk on here...

I rely on you to keep me informed of these "Terms of Use" changes, so thank you for that!

Now how do I apply for that position myself?

I want to decide who is right and wrong by my arbitrary whim using the teachings of a dead master I clearly don't understand, who taught me not to think for myself and led me to attach myself to false beliefs that I refuse to give up even in the face of overwhelming evidence I have incomplete understanding, too!:D

[taai gihk yahn]

Now how do I apply for that position myself?
however you go about it, in this place there will doubtless be a long line of applicants...

[Scott R. Brown]

however you go about it, in this place there will doubtless be a long line of applicants...

Yeah, but I know you have the inside scoop on stuff like that.

Everyone knows you are a mover and a shaker!

[SavvySavage]

The nurse and physical therapist strike again. What exactly qualifies you to say that TCM is bs and that "science" proves this and that.

The advice you gave this guy could have been found right off of google. Why did you guys spend so much on your degrees to just quote another source? Do you have any unique advice to give or can we find all your knowlegde and advice on wikipedia?

To the original person who posted:

Go to a Vietnamese or Chinese restaurant that sells bone soups. These dishes have the bones and cartilage cooked in the water. The kidneys rule the bones and therefore eating bones benefits the kidney essence.

If you're losing you're hair there's not much reversal you can do to that. Hair today gone tomorrow. The best way to strengthan your kidney essence is to have less sex/ejaculation as you get older. Ejaculatr only when you really really feel the urge and not after you see an image of a woman. I'm not joking at all. Just tell your wife to relax a little. Laying down, without knapping, for a half hour every day allows the kidneys to function better in terms of filtering body fluids. Laying down every day is beneficial to your body in general.

Qi gong/nei gong:
you can rub the kidneys until they are warm every day when you wake up and before you go to bed. Do the hula hoop excercise which moves and stimulates your kidneys.


Since the kidneys rule the bones having strong bones also benefits the kidneys. Do more weight bearing excercise. Especially squats with lite weight. Squatting conditions the biggest muscles and bones of your body and therefore benefits the kidneys.

If you have anymore questions please private message me as these yahoos will just give you wikipedia info again. My answer combined wisdom of eastern and western medicine.

[Scott R. Brown]

The nurse and physical therapist strike again. What exactly qualifies you to say that TCM is bs and that "science" proves this and that.

The advice you gave this guy could have been found right off of google. Why did you guys spend so much on your degrees to just quote another source? Do you have any unique advice to give or can we find all your knowlegde and advice on wikipedia?

It doesn't matter where the information comes from; what matters is there is scientific evidence that supports the claims.

There is ample scientific evidence to support what I have posted!

There isn't for what you have posted! If there was it would be just as common knowledge as what I have posted.

You really aren't as savy as your pseudonym implies are you? Maybe stop taking those mercury pills!:)

[Scott R. Brown]

The best way to strengthan your kidney essence is to have less sex/ejaculation as you get older. Ejaculatr only when you really really feel the urge and not after you see an image of a woman. I'm not joking at all. Just tell your wife to relax a little.

This is a very good example of BAD advice based upon a tradition absent of scientific evidence!

As opposed to a real scientific study:

Previous studies have linked frequent sexual activity to a higher risk of prostate cancer, but this new, large study found ejaculation frequency was not associated with prostate cancer risk except in the highest category. Men who ejaculated most often actually had a 33% lower lifetime risk of prostate cancer, and this relationship grew stronger as men grew older.

For example, men who reported 21 or more ejaculations per month in their 40s had a 32% lower risk of prostate cancer later in life compared with those who reported between four and seven ejaculations per month. Men who reported more than 21 monthly ejaculations in the previous year had a 51% lower risk of prostate cancer.

Overall, an average of 21 or more ejaculations a month during a man's lifetime decreased the risk of prostate cancer later in life by 33%. And each increase of three ejaculations per week during a man's lifetime was associated with a 15% reduction in prostate cancer risk.

...researchers say ejaculation may protect the prostate through a variety of biological mechanisms that merit further research, such as:

Flushing out cancer-causing substances. Frequent ejaculation may help flush out retained chemical carcinogens in the prostate glands.
Reducing tension. The release of psychological tension that accompanies ejaculation may lower nervous activity associated with stress and slow the growth of potentially cancerous cells in the prostate.

Promoting rapid turnover of fluids. Frequent ejaculation may help prevent the development of mini-crystals that can block ducts within the prostate gland, reducing cancer risk.


WebMD (http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20040406/frequent-ejaculation-prostate)

[Scott R. Brown]

The best way to protect your kidney essence is to drink lots of water and exercise!

Look it up if you do not believe me!:)

[taai gihk yahn]

The nurse and physical therapist strike again.
and the unlicensed, insecure asz-hat savvysavage responds...


What exactly qualifies you to say that TCM is bs and that "science" proves this and that.
ummm, well, as far as talking about scientific studies (and I guess that you put "science" in quotes because...well, actually, I don't know why - except that maybe you think it's not scientific, because, well, I don't know why, except, maybe you are just a schmuk), since both of us are trained in assessing medical research, I guess that might be a start; as far as TCM, please point out exactly where either of us say that TCM is "BS"? I never said anything about it at all in this thread, and Scott simply pointed out that what Hendrick specifically was saying was not supported by any studies; but, as is typical for you, you are setting up a straw-man in order to be your typical antagonistic self;

BTW, as far as TCM being BS, my position is simple: like any medical modality, it has it's good points and it's failings; it also has good practitioners and bad ones, like so-called "western" medicine does as well; TCM has a wealth of anecdotal evidence, but very little in the way of controlled research, as far as TCM itself goes (not acupuncture as a modality, or herbs in terms of physiological effect - those have a growing body of reliable research - I'm talking TCM theory as a whole); the other BIG problem w/certain TCM practitioners is how they will on the one hand talk about how so-called "western" medicine can't properly diagnose or effectively treat TCM patterns, but how TCM can cure "western" diagnoses! for example, Hendrick claiming about on the other thread how doing Six Healing Sounds Qigong will cure Type I diabetes, a "western" diagnosis (and something that TCM wouldn't be able to describe or even conceive of at the cellular level, lol), without a shred of evidence to that effect! so if u want to start getting into the BS factor in TCM, you might want to think a bit about claims it makes about it's efficacy on "western" diagnoses without adhering to the standards of "western" approach...


The advice you gave this guy could have been found right off of google.
yes, it could; because it is common knowledge; is there something wrong with that?


Why did you guys spend so much on your degrees to just quote another source?
another straw-man - why can't you post without creating a false contention? first off, and most importantly, neither myself nor Scott are giving "advice" here as licensed health-care professionals! the original poster is not asking us for a professional opinion; so there is no expectation that we respond to him in that manner; Scott is giving basic information that, yes, anyone could find off of Google or Wikipedia; is there something wrong with that? why do you have to be antagonistic and start in with your own usual provocative BS?


Do you have any unique advice to give or can we find all your knowlegde and advice on wikipedia?
u r such a putz; why do u set up such ridiculous hypotheticals? it should be glaringly obvious that there is going to be a portion of nursing / PT knowledge that is part of a relatively more common knowledge base - not all of it is going to be rarified / exclusive; also, if we gave him "unique" advice, that would be inappropriate, seeing as neither of us has examined him, you dolt - how could we POSSIBLY give anything more than general "advice" without doing that? are you really that stupid to think that you can give professional level, "unique" advice to someone without assessing them in person? well, yes, actually, I think that you are...


To the original person who posted:
Go to a Vietnamese or Chinese restaurant that sells bone soups. These dishes have the bones and cartilage cooked in the water. The kidneys rule the bones and therefore eating bones benefits the kidney essence.
or so you claim...what evidence do you have to back this up (lol...)


If you're losing you're hair there's not much reversal you can do to that. Hair today gone tomorrow.
oh really? well, according to "scientific" research, so-called "western" medicine, you can reverse hair loss (http://www.pharmcom.com/rogaine_data.html); of course, I have also been told over the years by 2 different old Chinese herbalists that he shou wu (polygonoum multiflorum) will definitely regrow hair - so, are they wrong? and if they are, does that mean TCM is BS? or if they are right, then are YOU saying that TCM is BS?


The best way to strengthan your kidney essence is to have less sex/ejaculation as you get older. Ejaculatr only when you really really feel the urge and not after you see an image of a woman. I'm not joking at all. Just tell your wife to relax a little. Laying down, without knapping, for a half hour every day allows the kidneys to function better in terms of filtering body fluids. Laying down every day is beneficial to your body in general.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I think Scott handled this silliness you spew rather well...


Qi gong/nei gong:
you can rub the kidneys until they are warm every day when you wake up and before you go to bed. Do the hula hoop excercise which moves and stimulates your kidneys.
this I agree with - in fact, you are promoting good abdominopelvic health in general by doing waist circles, which, among other things, stimulates lymphatic drainage; BTW, when you do this, you may want to do your the breathing such that when you move the hips backwards, you breath out and when you bring them around and forwards you breath in (there - was that "unique" enough info for you? I encourage you to find that nugget of info on wikipedia...)


Since the kidneys rule the bones having strong bones also benefits the kidneys. Do more weight bearing excercise. Especially squats with lite weight. Squatting conditions the biggest muscles and bones of your body and therefore benefits the kidneys.
so here, you are basically repeating what Scott said here already!

Weight training will help stimulate testosterone production, specifically squats
LOL! so, did you get that info off wikipedia, or just copy it from Scott?

and BTW, since we are asking about qualifications, what exactly qualifies YOU to give any "medical" advice at all, either about TCM or anything else for that matter - are you licensed / trained in any area? or wait, didn't you take some classes and "almost" go to medical school?

and furthermore, it's interesting how YOU are the one making a big deal about me and Scott being a PT / nurse, yet niether of us mentioned that here at all! almost as if YOU have some sort of insecurity issues about yourself not being licensed or trained...


If you have anymore questions please private message me as these yahoos will just give you wikipedia info again.
yeah, I'm sure he's going to want to PM you after the attitude you've demonstrated here...


My answer combined wisdom of eastern and western medicine.
your answer combined nothing except your usual aszhattery and antagonism

now, I know that, in your typical style, you will respond by a) ignoring the specific points I have made to answer your unprovoked accusations; b) throw out more insults; c) create more straw-men; so - go for it...:rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

Okay, I was thinking in the TCM sense and the various effects on the whole system, rather than the western medical idea of just the kidney organ and it`s filtering function.
I don`t have any specifically identified pathology and no kidney troubles in the western sense. I`ve just noticed less energy in general as I hit middle age and a few other signs that different chi gung books mention as being signs of "weak kidneys". I haven`t given any thought to how I`d measure any progress other than perhaps having more energy or higher sex drive, maybe a little less stiffness in my lower back.

I`ve just gotten back into a weight training regimen, and I`m begining to learn the 8 Peice Brocade, and I`m begining to notice I feel alot better, but I figured I`d ask around. I`m very new at any kind of Chi Kung and don`t know much of anything about herbal meds. I just figured this would be the place to ask if anyone had any personal experiance or ideas.

here's the thing - pretty much any TCM practitioner you see will tell you that your Kidneys (from TCM perspective) are deficient - it's because they see Kidneys sort of as a battery for powering your body both on a daily basis and over the long term - so, like any battery that's working all the time, there will always be some depletion; that said, if you are realy interested in maintaining kidneys from TCM perspective, the best thing would be to find a good and reliable TCM practitioner who can assess you accordingly and then presecribe whatever he / she thinks is appropriate -and doing 8 brocade can certainly be one modality to address that - of course, your qigong teacher should also know how to assess you in that regard, so that would be another reaonable approach;

ok?

[SavvySavage]

Scott,

The problem with your argument is that it's based off of a study that refutes another study. Later on they'll do another study that refutes that one. You could probably find studies to support ANYTHING.

I'm not talking about preventing prostate cancer. Just because it lowers it by 33% that doesn't prevent it. It only lowers the risk. Exercise lowers the risk of heart attack but anyone can get a heart attack, even the healthiest.

What happens to most men after they ejaculate? They fall asleep. Try fighting against Mike Tyson after just dropping your load. It affects energy levels, motor abilities, performance levels, etc. You don't need science or TCM to tell you this. Any guy who has ever gotten laid knows this. Do me a favor, Scott? Go find more studies that prove you point. And then find studies that disprove your points. Then tell me what your opinion is.

TCM has many issues. But atleast it has a body of knowledge that doesn't change every five minutes with a new study.


Tai gak yan,
This is all I have to say to you in regards to your post. You know two tcm practitioners that claim certain herbs grow back hair? If that were true they would be rich and famous instead of just being two tcm practitioners. Hair loss can be stopped to a certain extent but no one can grow hair back.

Surprisingly, we actually agree on some points. You're just a little bit too contentious about what you think you know for what your amazing doctorate taught you.

[Scott R. Brown]

My point is you are giving poor advice based upon tradition, not upon science.

The nice thing about science is that it CAN be challenged and refuted based upon EVIDENCE. It is not based upon tradition or what others WANT it to be!

I agree with TGY, QiQong and TCM has its place, the problem is the attributed benefits are generally based upon anecdotal evidence and NOT supported by science.

Any kind of generalized movement is healthly, it does not HAVE to be QiGong, TaiChi or any other ancient and mysterious Eastern method. Exercise and good food has been just as important in ancient Western culture as Eastern culture.

Any kind of complete breathing pattern is healthy it does not have to be Buddhist abdominal breathing, Taoist reverse breathing or any other super secret ancient, mysterious method.

Any kind of relaxation program is healthy, it does not have to be associated with any kind of mysterious practice. Relaxation reduces cortisol which is a hormone that is way to abundant in today's high stress world. Less cortisol, less heart disease, less hypertension, more energy better health.

There is nothing mysterious about any of this. There is no special Asian knowledge. People like to practice these activities because it is romantic to do so. I don't begrudge anyone their romantic fantasies, I do think it is important they are conscious of the truth of the science, why these activities are beneficial based upon scientific evidence, and that they understand they are following a romantic fantasy.

Just because some people follow a romantic fantasy does not mean it is foolish. It may still be very healthy practice. However, if they do not understand the physiological process behind why something is healthy they could just as easily practice something that either has no benefit or, worse, could do harm, such as saying magic sounds to heal diabetes just because it is romantic to do so.

Roughly 1/3 of placebos give beneficial effects. That does say something about blind faith in a practice, however that means 2/3 get no beneficial effect from their romantic fantasies. THAT is why it is important to understand what one is doing and why it works rather than just blindly follow something because it is ancient and mysterious!

[taai gihk yahn]

The problem with your argument is that it's based off of a study that refutes another study. Later on they'll do another study that refutes that one. You could probably find studies to support ANYTHING.
right, whereas your "argument" is based on what, exactly? nothing beyond subjective opinion, really...


I'm not talking about preventing prostate cancer. Just because it lowers it by 33% that doesn't prevent it. It only lowers the risk. Exercise lowers the risk of heart attack but anyone can get a heart attack, even the healthiest.
???? are you serious? u can so blithely dismiss doing something that lowers risk of cancer by 1/3 because it doesn't jive with what u believe personally? ur argument implies that bec it "only" lowers the risk 33% it's better still not to ejaculate based on vague Taoist assertions about risks to health?


What happens to most men after they ejaculate? They fall asleep. Try fighting against Mike Tyson after just dropping your load. It affects energy levels, motor abilities, performance levels, etc. You don't need science or TCM to tell you this. Any guy who has ever gotten laid knows this. Do me a favor, Scott? Go find more studies that prove you point. And then find studies that disprove your points. Then tell me what your opinion is.
so let's see - because of the fact that we have a refractory period after ejaculation, this leads you to the conclusion that ejaculation is in and of itself is somehow a bad thing? u really hav this irritating habit of taking things so far out of context, it's not even funny - just because u hav a period of relative energy drain after an intense physiological event doesn't mean that that event is problematic for long-term energy;


TCM has many issues. But atleast it has a body of knowledge that doesn't change every five minutes with a new study.
no, of course it's much better to defer to centuries-old data taken during times when knowledge of human anatomy and physiology were far less than what is extant currently, than it is to rely on knowledge that is updated as new and more correct information comes to light...


Tai gak yan,
This is all I have to say to you in regards to your post.
not surprising, since you always ignore what you are unable to answer, as I effectively slam-dunked an answer to each of your baseless accusations; of course, u r always welcome to rebut if u feel inclined at a later date; but we know u won't, because you can't;


You know two tcm practitioners that claim certain herbs grow back hair? If that were true they would be rich and famous instead of just being two tcm practitioners. Hair loss can be stopped to a certain extent but no one can grow hair back.
I think ur reading comp needs a lot of work - my entire point for bringing this up was to demonstate how you can hav elements within a system that although they themselves are BS does not make the entire system BS, but that, like any modality, TCM needs to be critically evaluated in terms of what it claims;


Surprisingly, we actually agree on some points.
even a broken clock is correct twice a day; so if we do agree, it's more by chance given that your methodological m/o lacks any semblance of intellectual rigor;


You're just a little bit too contentious about what you think you know for what your amazing doctorate taught you.
let's see, u jump onto the thread deriding me and Scott, our degrees, our so-called googled advice and "science" in general, and I'm the one being contentious? okaaaaay...second, i do not have a doctorate, nor have ever claimed to, so I don't know where u get that from; third, despite what u may project about my "amazing" education, quite frankly the majority of my functional clinical knowledge base, aside from anatomy / phys, is not based on what I was taught in school, a lot of which, IMPO, was poorly taught and ultimately a waste of time; rather, I had to search quite a bit after graduation to obtain the clinical information that enabled me to b successful clinically; finally, in regards to your statement about what I "think I know", please provide a specific example on this or any other thread where I make a statement regarding PT, TCM or qigong (or anything else, for that matter), where I mistakenly claim to know something that I don't (of course, you won't, u never speak to specifics, u just level accusations and then ignore the responses when they demonstrate the error of what you have said);

addendum: as I re-read ur original post, I am struck by just how ridiculous of an individual you come across as - u post like an angry 4-year old who wasn't allowed a second scoop of ice cream; until u can reconcile ur glaringly obvious contrarian issues, especially if u r trying to construct a reasoned argument, u should consider not posting here; I strongly urge you to seriously re-evaluate ur reasons for and and methods of posting before coming on here again, because all you really end-up doing is embarrassing yourself

[Scott R. Brown]

<Shaking head!>

I keep trying to tell these guys to lay off the mercury pills because they cause mental deficiency and neurological disorder, but they never listen!

[taai gihk yahn]

<Shaking head!>

I keep trying to tell these guys to lay off the mercury pills because they cause mental deficiency and neurological disorder, but they never listen!

It's really all about reading comprehension, as I keep saying: if u can't tell the difference between cinnamon and cinnabar, u might be better off not sprinkling anything into ur mocha latte!

[SavvySavage]

right, whereas your "argument" is based on what, exactly? nothing beyond subjective opinion, really

???? are you serious? u can so blithely dismiss doing something that lowers risk of cancer by 1/3 because it doesn't jive with what u believe personally? ur argument implies that bec it "only" lowers the risk 33% it's better still not to ejaculate based on vague Taoist assertions about risks to health?

Try this. Go masturbate three times a day for the next three days and then try and have sexual relations with your wife. One of a few things will happen. You won't have the urge. Your ***** won't work. Your erection occurs but then does on you in a few minutes. Are you going to try and refute any of what I just said? Now let's look at a guy who has erectile dysfunction all the time and he's pushing 50. What he is experiencing is similar to the guy who touches himself everyday and then can't pop an erection when he needs to. He used up what was stored in his kidneys given to him by his parents. Chinese medicine is, in many cases, a different way of saying the same thing as other systems.
so let's see - because of the fact that we have a refractory period after ejaculation, this leads you to the conclusion that ejaculation is in and of itself is somehow a bad thing? u really hav this irritating habit of taking things so far out of context, it's not even funny - just because u hav a period of relative energy drain after an intense physiological event doesn't mean that that event is problematic for long-term energy;


no, of course it's much better to defer to centuries-old data taken during times when knowledge of human anatomy and physiology were far less than what is extant currently, than it is to rely on knowledge that is updated as new and more correct information comes to light...


not surprising, since you always ignore what you are unable to answer, as I effectively slam-dunked an answer to each of your baseless accusations; of course, u r always welcome to rebut if u feel inclined at a later date; but we know u won't, because you can't;
Your posts take on a certain tone about them. Posting against you is like arguing with someone who won't stop screaming. No matter what you say to him he just keeps thumping his foot, beating his chest, and yelling. Logic doesn't work You post that way. No matter what I say you just yell back with your posts, which are way too long. You need to shorten them. Your method of arguing is throwing as much crap out there as possible and people get tired of arguing.

I think ur reading comp needs a lot of work - my entire point for bringing this up was to demonstate how you can hav elements within a system that although they themselves are BS does not make the entire system BS, but that, like any modality, TCM needs to be critically evaluated in terms of what it claims;


even a broken clock is correct twice a day; so if we do agree, it's more by chance given that your methodological m/o lacks any semblance of intellectual rigor;


let's see, u jump onto the thread deriding me and Scott, our degrees, our so-called googled advice and "science" in general, and I'm the one being contentious? okaaaaay...second, i do not have a doctorate, nor have ever claimed to, so I don't know where u get that from; third, despite what u may project about my "amazing" education, quite frankly the majority of my functional clinical knowledge base, aside from anatomy / phys, is not based on what I was taught in school, a lot of which, IMPO, was poorly taught and ultimately a waste of time; rather, I had to search quite a bit after graduation to obtain the clinical information that enabled me to b successful clinically; finally, in regards to your statement about what I "think I know", please provide a specific example on this or any other thread where I make a statement regarding PT, TCM or qigong (or anything else, for that matter), where I mistakenly claim to know something that I don't (of course, you won't, u never speak to specifics, u just level accusations and then ignore the responses when they demonstrate the error of what you have said);

addendum: as I re-read ur original post, I am struck by just how ridiculous of an individual you come across as - u post like an angry 4-year old who wasn't allowed a second scoop of ice cream; until u can reconcile ur glaringly obvious contrarian issues, especially if u r trying to construct a reasoned argument, u should consider not posting here; I strongly urge you to seriously re-evaluate ur reasons for and and methods of posting before coming on here again, because all you really end-up doing is embarrassing yourself

There you go attacking me again. When you have nothing constructive to argue you fling more crap. The original poster asked a question of the "Traditional Chinese Medicine forum". Why would you answer a question in that? What qualifies you to do so? Because you know tcm practitioners? If I know someone who'se a pharmacist does that give me the authority to answer questions about drugs and possible side effects of mixing? NO. You're an overpaid massage therapist. I can't believe that people need to get a doctorate to do what you do.

[taai gihk yahn]

Try this. Go masturbate three times a day for the next three days and then try and have sexual relations with your wife. One of a few things will happen. You won't have the urge. Your ***** won't work. Your erection occurs but then does on you in a few minutes. Are you going to try and refute any of what I just said?
no, because u r setting up such an ad absurdum hypothetical, as usual, that there's no point in even treating it seriously; that and it has nothing to do with the original claim about excessive ejaculation negatively impacting long-term health


Now let's look at a guy who has erectile dysfunction all the time and he's pushing 50. What he is experiencing is similar to the guy who touches himself everyday and then can't pop an erection when he needs to. He used up what was stored in his kidneys given to him by his parents.
once again, u r drifting in ur "argument"; the original "point" was that one should, supposedly, limit the amount of ejaculation IN GENERAL because it supposedly would somehow harm someone's overall health in the long-term; now u r claiming that something specific, erectile dysfunction, is the result of a specific type of frequent ejaculation (masturbation); so first it's ejaculation in general, now it's the specific manner of ejaculation - man, u r all over the place; really, it's just absurd that u can't even maintain the specifics of a topic from one post to the next;


Chinese medicine is, in many cases, a different way of saying the same thing as other systems.
in a nutshell, Chinese medicine is a mix of empiricism and metaphorical extrapolation for what it cannot observe directly; it is a discipline that relies almost entirely on the individual operator's skill level which makes it a highly subjective approach; which, while on the one hand makes it very powerful for addressing each individual's unique issues, also impedes the degree of generalizability that exists in relatively more objective approaches such as the contemporary biomedical model;


Your posts take on a certain tone about them.
yes - basically lack of tolerance for the drivel you type;


Posting against you is like arguing with someone who won't stop screaming. No matter what you say to him he just keeps thumping his foot, beating his chest, and yelling. Logic doesn't work You post that way.
obviously for you, English doesn't work that well either...


No matter what I say you just yell back with your posts,
if u wan to artificially qualifying my posts as screaming, yeling, etc., that's your prerogative, but actually, anyone else reading this thread is going to see that what I do is giv a thorough, reasoned and ultimately calm response to your inflammatory posts while refusing to be either bullied or emotionally drawn in by your belligerence;


which are way too long. You need to shorten them.
the reason my posts are "too long" is because ur posts r so idiotic and self-deluded that I hav to spend an excess of time first explaining how they are totally lacking in logical cohesion, and then once that marathon is completed, I stil hav to make my own point;
anyway, as I say to everyone who complains about the length of my posts, if they are too long, don't read them and don't respond to them and even better, just put me on ignore!


Your method of arguing is throwing as much crap out there as possible and people get tired of arguing.
people like u who hav no ability to engage in a structured argument get tired because you lack the discipline to see a point through to its end without engaging in logical fallacies like ad hominum attacks and straw-man hypotheticals; if u can't maintain the degree of intellectual clarity needed to do so, then don't engage in the first place;


There you go attacking me again. When you have nothing constructive to argue you fling more crap.
LOL, look who's talking - your very first post on this thread was an attack:


The nurse and physical therapist strike again.
tell me, was that NOT an attack? was it NOT intended to be derisive, dismissive and belittling? was it somehow a compliment that I misconstered? was it? moron...


The original poster asked a question of the "Traditional Chinese Medicine forum". Why would you answer a question in that? What qualifies you to do so? Because you know tcm practitioners? If I know someone who'se a pharmacist does that give me the authority to answer questions about drugs and possible side effects of mixing?
no problem; first, I have been studying qigong for 15 years with the same teacher, who is regarded in the field as being credible and skilled in that regard; and I also completed an 18-month intensive (~200 hrs) qiggong therapist training with him, which resulted in my certification by him as a Qigong Therapist; if u wish to verify that, I can provide you with his e-mail; I can also send you a copy of my certification if u r really interested (which I doubt u r, but whatever); so, while it certainly doesn't make me the world's formost authority on the topic, I think it is enuf to give me the purview to address the issue with some basis for reliable commentary;
ok now, so, your turn: what qualifies YOU to say anything about TCM / qigong?



NO. You're an overpaid massage therapist.
LOL, u r such an idiot; can a massage therapist perform joint manipulations / adjustments, dry needle trigger points, perform wound debridement, fabricate orthotics or design seating systems for medically complex patients, administer electrotherapeutics and make ICD-9 diagnoses? u really shud do a little more research before u make ridiculous statements;


I can't believe that people need to get a doctorate to do what you do.
I actually think the whole doctorate bit is a farce, but not for the reasons u cite - for example, it primarily comes out of the private practice arena, as a means to support why PT's shud hav direct access w/out need for an MD script (what I call "chiro envy"); quite frankly, we do hav the training to assess people off the street and the knowledge base to refer them to an MD for clearance if need be, but it really has more to do with economics of survival than anything else; in fact a lot of PT's r anti-DPT, and in fact, overall, it really hasn't contributed much to the profession, IMPO; TBH, I'd discuss the issue more with u, except u know nothing about it to be able to contribute in a meanigful way

btw, i like your color choice, but maybe next time try something in a chartreuse perhaps...

[Scott R. Brown]

There you go attacking me again. When you have nothing constructive to argue you fling more crap. The original poster asked a question of the "Traditional Chinese Medicine forum". Why would you answer a question in that? What qualifies you to do so? Because you know tcm practitioners? If I know someone who'se a pharmacist does that give me the authority to answer questions about drugs and possible side effects of mixing? NO. You're an overpaid massage therapist. I can't believe that people need to get a doctorate to do what you do.

It is very difficult to have a productive discussion with people who are ill-informed, under-educated, have an inability to utilize proper reasoning and yet at the same time think they know more than they do!

People such as yourself and Hendrik!:rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

It is very difficult to have a productive discussion with people who are ill-informed, under-educated, have an inability to utilize proper reasoning and yet at the same time think they know more than they do!

People such as yourself and Hendrik!:rolleyes:

he keeps whining that I have no qualifications to discuss qigong in relation to TCM; now I hav provided him with evidence to the contrary and hav asked him to provide his own; what do u think will be the outcome of that? I bet he'll say that he took some weekend seminars and almost went to acupuncture school...

[Scott R. Brown]

he keeps whining that I have no qualifications to discuss qigong in relation to TCM; now I hav provided him with evidence to the contrary and hav asked him to provide his own; what do u think will be the outcome of that? I bet he'll say that he took some weekend seminars and almost went to acupuncture school...

I will guess it is worse than that......

...he studied for 20 or 30 years, maybe even from a qualified teacher (like Hendrik did), understood very little (like Hendrik did), dropped his notes on the ground (like Hendrik did), they got put back together out of order so he has confused the teachings (like Hendrik did), and thinks that makes him an expert (like Hendrik does)!

Wait!!!

.....that's ME!!!!:eek: :D

<Please notice my judicious use of the color RED!>:)