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View Full Version : Its amazing how few rights/protections men have as fathers



SoCo KungFu
04-14-2010, 09:37 PM
Apparently its ok for state sponsored kidnapping. If this were me, I think I would probably have to be asking myself, "what would Uki do?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/13/AR2010041302445.html

uki
04-15-2010, 03:43 AM
it's truly sad that a father has next to zero rights... i have three children at home and one with an ex, but the ex doesn't like me and tells the court that i am not a good father and they side with her(obviously)... i have seen my 9 year old daughter for 7 minutes on christmas day in over a year as i fight this tooth and nail in court... i have finally finished all my court ordered evaluations and will find out soon enough just how flawed the system is... the mom says i am an incompetent father, yet i have had the same job for nearly 6 years now, had been paying 500 dollars a month for a child i could not see and then do my best to make my ends meet with the money i have left over... the mom on the other hand is a lying, sleazy, selfish ****ing ***** with a lawyer father from new york, she changes jobs like socks, is miserable and two faced... her friends are all heroin users... when she used to go out partying, she'd call her gay friend and drop my daughter off over at his house instead of driving her to me 15 minutes away... she has two sisters with kids and both have done the same thing to their childrens father after the break up... anyhow, excuse the ramble... this is the only stress in my life at times, but i know all things happen for a reason - everything works itself out. :)

and as for what would uki do?? LOL... i can't say, i am not in that position - my girlfriend has a fine set of high standing morals and ethics and even if we were to break up, i know that she would allow me to see my children because a child needs both parents in their life... i also laugh at my troubles because i WANT to see my kid and she WANTS to see me... most other fathers are the opposite - they could care less if they see their kid because it would kill their game. :)

David Jamieson
04-15-2010, 06:00 AM
yep, those laws could stand some updating.
domestic disputes are never cut and dried and it is ALWAYS 'he said/she said'

For instance, Uki, as critical as you are of your Ex, as you state, she is just as critical of you. You both feel you are right and the other is wrong. This is almost always the case.

Even though you may feel and think that your current is good and will be good even if things fall apart, you should think about that statement. It could be entirely different

Things don't always work out. You have to actively participate in making them work out.

People are at time incompatible with each other and function at an emotional level. When rational and intellect kick in and the emotional high wears off, they start to see the relationship for what it is.

What's important is that you don't lose sight of knowing yourself. Understanding yourself and understanding yourself in context to how you socially negotiate your way through relationships with others.

Understand why people can't stand you and you are halfway there. Sit down and describe why you are not liked by this person. Think about it, digest it, internalize it.

Ultimately, you have to live within rule of law and rule of law doesn't care how you feel. It is(should be) strictly following the legal guidelines. If you don't understand those legal guidelines, look em up, study em. If they are wrong, write a letter to your congressman and address it. Start an awareness campaign. It will take work and don't think your emotional rants will sway anyones opinion or view.

You have to make a legal case, or a rational case against the law as it stands to get the wheel rolling on changing it.

MasterKiller
04-15-2010, 06:20 AM
I'll tell you what's some bullsh1t. Men have to pay 1/2 of the care of raising the child, in a figure determined by the court, but the woman gets to claim 100% of the tax exemption for the child if it lives with her more than 51% of the time. And don't get me started on spousal support.

SanHeChuan
04-15-2010, 06:26 AM
mom on the other hand is a lying, sleazy, selfish ****ing ***** with a lawyer father from new york, she changes jobs like socks, is miserable and two faced... her friends are all heroin users...

Well you were stupid enough to date and then have a child with this woman, so obviously your judgement is in question. ;)


Its amazing how few rights/protections men have as fathers

This is the problem when you have religions dominating government as you do in Utah. They only respect/recognize the legitimacy of those that fall in line with their beliefs. Oh you’re not a good married Christian couple, then you have no rights, because we know better than you that this baby needs both a mother and father (who go to church). God told us so. :rolleyes:

1bad65
04-15-2010, 07:30 AM
it's truly sad that a father has next to zero rights...

Not if they want to take their son back to a Communist dictatorship against the mother's dying wishes.

1bad65
04-15-2010, 07:34 AM
I'll tell you what's some bullsh1t. Men have to pay 1/2 of the care of raising the child, in a figure determined by the court, but the woman gets to claim 100% of the tax exemption for the child if it lives with her more than 51% of the time. And don't get me started on spousal support.

I'll tell you a good story.

Years ago at my last job, some guys were talking abnout this. One guy in particular had a good story. He had gotten a divorce and they had a daughter. The mother had primary custody, so he had to pay child support. The guy was a tech, and made around 40k/yr. His wife had started a diet program with two of her friends that took off. The women became multi-millionaires. She even paid cash for a 7-figure house in Westlake. But every time her ex got his annual raise (usually around 4-8%), she took him back to court to get his child support payments increased.

solo1
04-15-2010, 08:03 AM
OMG! bout time this topic showed up. Im divorced, and carry with me first hand the horror of being dragged into a divorce. Lose your kids, your stuff, your income, your savings and your treated like a felon from the get go, then get your head around alimony even if she works and child support which automatically labels you a dead beat, felon or worse. If your male and your considering marrying you have lost your minds, the system gives her all the power in the relationship and the courts. I have re married, thank you God she is not American. Ill say it again if your considering getting married sit down with a good lawyer draft an air tight pre nup if she isnt willing to sign it dont marry, everything you own now and will own down the road has her name on it and she knows it. My wife wasnt to thrilled about signing a pre-nup but she understood and agreed.

for the moment Im done venting but could re-write War and Peace with my experiances over the last ten years.

David Jamieson
04-15-2010, 08:27 AM
yep, one bad apple and that barrel is spoiled.

You guys may have horror stories, but I can say with sureness that there are a great deal of women out there who have suffered as well.

The general swing of things is based off a general track record afterall.

For men overall when it comes to paying child support, dealing with divorce etc etc, well sorry, but the track record is bad. Men screw it up time and again, penalties get harsher and harsher and still there are failures to comply, etc etc.

It has all snowballed into what we have now.

Mostly, what needs to change is attitudes. Mostly by men.

case by case is how it goes and if you take your emotional baggage and anger into court, you are gonna screw yourself.

always have a lawyer do your speaking for you. Never speak for yourself in a domestic case that involves child support or spousal support.

The Law doesn't care if you're mad or you think it's not fair.

dimethylsea
04-15-2010, 08:40 AM
This is why getting married in the US is a really horrible idea, and giving a woman a child of your blood is almost as bad.

The idea of fatherhood is a crushing responsibility I want no part of, but....

If I ever do have a kid I will use a surrogate and hire an unrelated wet-nurse and nanny.

If I can't afford that.. then I am perfectly happy not procreating.

solo1
04-15-2010, 09:38 AM
yep, one bad apple and that barrel is spoiled.

You guys may have horror stories, but I can say with sureness that there are a great deal of women out there who have suffered as well.

The general swing of things is based off a general track record afterall.

For men overall when it comes to paying child support, dealing with divorce etc etc, well sorry, but the track record is bad. Men screw it up time and again, penalties get harsher and harsher and still there are failures to comply, etc etc.

It has all snowballed into what we have now.

Mostly, what needs to change is attitudes. Mostly by men.

case by case is how it goes and if you take your emotional baggage and anger into court, you are gonna screw yourself.

always have a lawyer do your speaking for you. Never speak for yourself in a domestic case that involves child support or spousal support.

The Law doesn't care if you're mad or you think it's not fair.


David the LAW needs to care a lot more then it does. In overwhleming numbers men are the ones punished in a divorce, not for breaking the law or committing a crime but for the mere fact they are men. The system has been rigged here in the US since Gerald Ford changed the child support rules and the way it is handled, now thru a government run organizations, so you know thats gonna end up well. Divorced men have suicide rates that would make your head spin and bankruptcies? dont even get me started. I shudder when i think how it is handled in Canada it makes our draconian rules pale in comparison. Sure women want divorces, 80% of them are filed by them, wonder why? cause the system favors them in virtually every case. The advent of no fault has made it not only easier but profitable for them and the lawyers. It is an evil system designed to wreck a fathers relationship with his kids. How a father can be expected to be an active participant in his kids life every wednesday night and every other weekend while shelling out half his income and trying to counter the venomous garbage she fills your kids head with is not going to happen. Reform is needed today.
I dont know if youve been thru one but the feeling that you have no control of your life and your input in your kids lives is stripped away ,under the lie that women by thier nature are better parents. This is equality? women make up more college graduates then men, they are excelling in every academic level and in a few years will be the largest earning block in the US so they are suffering from lack of income and education no longer flies but we remain tethered to laws drawn up in a differant era. For the moment Im done.....

MasterKiller
04-15-2010, 10:07 AM
I'll tell you a good story.

Years ago at my last job, some guys were talking abnout this. One guy in particular had a good story. He had gotten a divorce and they had a daughter. The mother had primary custody, so he had to pay child support. The guy was a tech, and made around 40k/yr. His wife had started a diet program with two of her friends that took off. The women became multi-millionaires. She even paid cash for a 7-figure house in Westlake. But every time her ex got his annual raise (usually around 4-8%), she took him back to court to get his child support payments increased.

That's bad, but I have a worse one. I personally know a guy who married a woman that already had 3 kids. He did not adopt them, but their fathers (plural) do not provide support for the kids. After 14 months, he couldn't take her anymore and left, and she sued him for abandonment and now he pays spousal support AND child support for 3 kids that are not legally or biologically his.

1bad65
04-15-2010, 10:28 AM
yep, one bad apple and that barrel is spoiled.

Can I have some of what you are smoking?

1bad65
04-15-2010, 10:31 AM
That's bad, but I have a worse one. I personally know a guy who married a woman that already had 3 kids. He did not adopt them, but their fathers (plural) do not provide support for the kids. After 14 months, he couldn't take her anymore and left, and she sued him for abandonment and now he pays spousal support AND child support for 3 kids that are not legally or biologically his.

That's nuts. I'd just move to a foreign country (no one will extradite you over a civil matter), and send her a card every week saying, "You greedy *****. Now you get nothing."

SoCo KungFu
04-15-2010, 10:51 AM
Its more than just issues of divorces and what not too. This is another issue where laws are so varied state to state. Some states have time windows before a mother is required to designate a father. Some states do not require a mother to designate a father at all. My thing is, why is it up solely to the female to be the one that has to designate who the father be? This case with Emma Wyatt reminds me of another from a couple years back. The mother was not required to designate a father at all. She broke communication with the father, had the baby and put it up for adoption without the father even knowing he had fathered until long after the adoption was finalized. When he finally found out, it was a long legal battle just for him to get a paternity test.

Its just really lame. And you know that had the John Wyatt's girlfriend had wanted the kid, she'd be raking him for child support, yet he has no say in whether or not he gets to be in his daughter's life?...

uki
04-15-2010, 03:09 PM
Even though you may feel and think that your current is good and will be good even if things fall apart, you should think about that statement. It could be entirely differentperhaps, but my girlfriend and i are not married and will not get married... if anything, a problem could arise because our three children have an entirely different last name than either of us.


Things don't always work out.i am sorry... i cannot relate to this in my life experience - everything has worked itself out for me... life is perfect. :)


Well you were stupid enough to date and then have a child with this woman, so obviously your judgement is in question.i am not disagreeing... i view it more along the lines of progression of the lessons learned in life... i am sure most people can relate to an upgrade of standards as we evolve in our life experience - what was valued earlier in ignorance is now discarded in the trash. :D

the system is flawed period.

Sihing73
04-15-2010, 04:24 PM
Hello,

This is a subject which impacts me as well. I have four children, a son who will be 18 in June and lived with me until the end of 2007 when he went to live with mom. During the whole time he lived with me mom was nowhere to be found no support of any kind and could not even make it to visit him.

Well, when a child is 14, in Georgia at least, they have a say as to where they want to live. He did not want to follow my rules and was hanging out with wanna be thugs. Essentially we had an argument over on of his friends and he pulled a knife on me. I did not hurt him but took the knife away from him. DFAC's got involved and because I had put my hands on him they tried to take him away. Fortunately, my son admitted to pulling the knife on me in court so the Judge did not have any sympathy for him. But, because of his age, they did allow him to go live with his mom in PA. Who, btw, had two convictions, one for three counts of Endangering the Welfare of Minor Children and one for Welfare Fraud.

Not too long ago I had to start paying child support to the tune of almost $500 a month. This could continue as long as he is in school. Right now he is in the 11th grade and failing every subject but two. He also has a terrible attendence record and he is on Probation for hitting a cop. Now when he lived with me, even with the rebellious attitude, he was an A and B student at school.

Funny thing is I still have both Physical and Legal Custody according to the courts. I am considering pulling him out of school so his Probation Officer can make him enter a court ordered GED program. But, no matter what his life if pretty much shot.

I am raising my three daughters as a single dad and they live with me. Technically, mom still has custody but this should be settled on May 17th. The girls lived with mom in Philly for almost two years before coming back to live with me. During that time they missed school and moved about 7-9 times. The year before they came to live with me they were evicted from three different places. Mom has a substance abuse problem and every time I tried to raise my concern for my kids DFAC's acted like I was the problem. At one point when I complained that my children were not attending school, DFAC's tried to say it was my fault and I should make sure they go to school. Keep in mind that I was living in Atlanta at the time and they were living in Philly so I am not sure how I was to insure they made it to school every day :mad:

End result of my girls story is DFAC's eventually figured out mom was the problem and helped to have them sent to me in Georgia. I had them enrolled in school within a couple of days of arriving and set up child care etc. It is difficult and I can not afford a real babysitter so I send them to the Boys and Girls Clubs. Only problem is that they are now going to start closing at 5 PM which makes it even more difficult to provide child care.

Talk about our system. If I was a woman, no offence intended to anyone, there would be all sorts of resources to help with the child care etc. Shoot, when my ex got out of rehab DFAC's even helped her rent a house and bought her furniture. :eek:

I do not agree that mom should be able to take the tax exemption especially since the IRS does not consider Child Support as income!!!

Oh well, I am happy my girls are okay and am praying about my son.

Thanks for letting me vent a bit.

uki
04-15-2010, 07:09 PM
. But, no matter what his life if pretty much shot.LOL... and he's in 11th grade?? i was kinda feeling for you for a momemnt until i got to this sentence... what a ignorant mindset to have - like you have quit or given up on your son. i marvel at the lack of faith you have in the concept of natural harmony and balance... then again maybe i am the one who is out of touch with YOUR reality. i live a life where it is perfectly flawed, because this is where the lessons are taught and learned - where we evolve on a level of matured experience... anyone who might have known me when i was 18 would have thought that i was pretty ****ing lost in life too, but it's when we become hopelessly lost, that we discover our true self... each of us has a purpose in life, to lose faith in that is about as ignorant as one can become... please excuse my rant. :)

Lee Chiang Po
04-15-2010, 09:08 PM
I learned early in life that you fix what you can, and stand down and cut your loses on those things you can not fix.
I went through divorce with a child involved. I took custody of him and gained a judgement of child support from my ex-wife. Unusual, but I did. She owes me a huge fortune as she never paid a cent. I made her a deal and she was happy to take it. I would not take her money if she would ride off into the sunset. 40 years later that son went through not one, but two divorces in just a few years. He managed to maintain custody of his children from each marriage. It can be done. You got to quite being a victim. If you act like a victim you will be victimized. They will break you over like a shotgun and load you up.

goju
04-15-2010, 09:17 PM
**** this thread makes me never want to have kids or get married:eek:

dimethylsea
04-16-2010, 01:21 AM
**** this thread makes me never want to have kids or get married:eek:

Smart man. If you want a wife and/or kids you should head to another jurisdiction to have them.

And remember.... the moment you don't hold something in reserve.. you become boring to her.

*ALWAYS* keep some secrets, some hidden tools, some things she doesn't know about. That way the *sly smile* is truthful and she will be happy, trying to figure out what she doesn't know.

Being happy knowing something entirely is more often a masculine trait. Women like not knowing, and not admitting it.

Half the reason many women are attracted to "bad boy" types is because they hold something back, they aren't trustworthy.

Think of it as a Yin-Yang duality riddle.

By pretending to be bad, she thinks (eventually) you are good. By pretending to be good, she thinks (eventually) you are bad.

The problem with the present law is that it's built to constrain bad men, who cannot truly be kept in check by the system. And it makes the good men the system *Can* constrain into victims.

Sihing73
04-16-2010, 03:58 AM
LOL... and he's in 11th grade?? i was kinda feeling for you for a momemnt until i got to this sentence... what a ignorant mindset to have - like you have quit or given up on your son. i marvel at the lack of faith you have in the concept of natural harmony and balance... then again maybe i am the one who is out of touch with YOUR reality. i live a life where it is perfectly flawed, because this is where the lessons are taught and learned - where we evolve on a level of matured experience... anyone who might have known me when i was 18 would have thought that i was pretty ****ing lost in life too, but it's when we become hopelessly lost, that we discover our true self... each of us has a purpose in life, to lose faith in that is about as ignorant as one can become... please excuse my rant. :)

Hi Uki,

He will be 18 in less than two months, is failing every subject in school but two, has excessive absences and is on Probation for striking a police office.

Yeah, I'd say his life is going very well :rolleyes:

He certainly could make something of his life, and I hope he does, but not at the way things are currently going.

I have not given up on him, just am not going to waste my time reaching out if it is not wanted. Doubtless, he will learn the hard way. As his father I just wish it did not have to be that way.

Also, I have never regretted having children. The issues are not with them and they are a blessing no matter what.........even my son :)

Dragonzbane76
04-16-2010, 04:57 AM
As his father I just wish it did not have to be that way.


We all wish for the better for our kids, but in reality lessons learned are usually bought the hard route. I had my issues in the past and had to learn from them, hard lessons, but ones that I will never forget. They are what shape us to be who we are.

I can kinda see what you are saying about "not reaching out" to your child anymore. Sometimes just letting life happen is the best. But Uki does have a point, don't totally shut out his attempts or totally give up. Always make some kind of attempt for the sake of maybe, just maybe, you might get thought one day, after all he is your son.

David Jamieson
04-16-2010, 10:13 AM
**** this thread makes me never want to have kids or get married:eek:

I don't know about the rest of these guys, but I was hoping that would be the yield of such a thread.

No little gojus!

That would just herald the end of the world. :D

also, Lee Chang Po makes perfect sense (another sign of the end of time i think! :eek: ) and I agree with his assessment.

I went through a custody battle as well.
be calm, stick to the facts and remain upright and don't be a victim.

I'm reading a lot of emotional baggage in some of these posts quite frankly. Let that stuff go. You'll get further without that unneeded burden on your back. :)

MasterKiller
04-16-2010, 10:29 AM
perhaps, but my girlfriend and i are not married and will not get married... if anything, a problem could arise because our three children have an entirely different last name than either of us. Why don't they have either your name or hers?

SanHeChuan
04-16-2010, 12:19 PM
Why don't they have either your name or hers?

They stole'm ;)

SoCo KungFu
04-16-2010, 07:55 PM
Kinda crazy, when I posted this I didn't think there would be much interest let alone so many similar stories...

uki
04-17-2010, 01:24 AM
Why don't they have either your name or hers?we gave them a combined last name of our two last names... kinda like a mutant hybrid name... MUWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! seriously... we took the first 4 letters of her last name and the last 3 letters of my last name and smooshed them together to make a new name. :)


You got to quite being a victim. If you act like a victim you will be victimized.excellent advice.


Also, I have never regretted having children. The issues are not with them and they are a blessing no matter what.........even my son.aye mate... children are a blessing in all their many shapes and forms...


We all wish for the better for our kids, but in reality lessons learned are usually bought the hard route. I had my issues in the past and had to learn from them, hard lessons, but ones that I will never forget. They are what shape us to be who we are. more excellence!!!


I can kinda see what you are saying about "not reaching out" to your child anymore. Sometimes just letting life happen is the best. But Uki does have a point, don't totally shut out his attempts or totally give up. Always make some kind of attempt for the sake of maybe, just maybe, you might get thought one day, after all he is your son.back when i was 18, my dad pretty much gave up on me too... LOL... it's nice to be able to smile and tell him "see, there was never anything to worry about... i learned my lessons on my own and am doing just fine now... a prophet once said, "if you love your children, you will let them go."


Kinda crazy, when I posted this I didn't think there would be much interest let alone so many similar stories...see what happens when you don't think first?? LOL

despite the strife my ex has caused me, i will give her this... last year she completely cancelled all child support - the slate has been wiped clean... no more 500 dollars a month and no back arrears to pay off - obviously this was to make her look better to the courts. either way, i guess she figures i would quit or give up... LOL... i'm like a comet coming from behind the sun - when no one is paying attention thru all the glare... BAM!!! :D

Lucas
04-20-2010, 10:50 AM
He will be 18 in less than two months, is failing every subject in school but two, has excessive absences and is on Probation for striking a police office.



that doesnt mean hes doomed. just for food for though, let me paint a picture for you.

at 18, i was already a high school drop out, was living on the streets on and off for several years at that point. had several dead end jobs but was not working. was involved with some very shady and bad people, was doing shady and bad things.

now, at 30, im a professional working adult in a position to develop a career in my field of work if i so choose. I decided by myself and for myself to change my life. I got my GED, I went through temp agencies and other dead end jobs until i was able to situate myself into a position where my good nature and work ethics would lead me to an opportunity. when the opportunity came, i took it. Now i'm doing well for myself.

i was an extremely troubled youth. i abandoned my family and they me at the age of 15. i wasnt perfect but i was NEVER supported by my step mother or mostly absent father.

the best piece of advice i could ever give you coming as someone who matured through a similar situation as your son is, just be there. stay open, and be supportive when he eventually, if he does, show an interest in turning things around. he may not want or need it now, but he will be grateful later in life that you remained open for him. I would have. i still have only spoken with my father since I was 15 once.

ive spent half my life without any family at all because my family gave up hope on me when i was still a kid....

I however did not come to this decision until i was 20. when things were the darkest, i finally saw the light. it wasnt until I had lost everything that i found the something worth fighting for. for some of us, we simply need life to teach us the truth.

sanjuro_ronin
04-20-2010, 10:56 AM
**** this thread makes me never want to have kids or get married:eek:

Some of us are happily married with great kids.
Never be critical of something that people **** up, be critical of the people.
Marriage is a fine thing, between people that love and like each other, people that marry for the right reasons and people that understand that that what they see is what they get.
Too many people marry for all the wrong reasons then blame marriage, as if a THING can be blamed for what people do with it.
Sometimes people just grow apart and don't wanna be with each other anymore, it can be just that simple, and in those case things usually happen in a amicable way.
Crap happens when people resent each other.
The problem with the law is that it is out dated and to often, politically motivated.