Who is the Bad Boy of KFM?

[MasterKiller]

Cast your ballots!

[MasterKiller]

I have it on good authority that Gene's wallet says Bad Mother F@cker.

[goju]

**** if i hadnt gotten the white kimbo title already i would soooooo have this one

[David Jamieson]

the bad boy of kfm?

there are so many...

alos, depends on what you mean by "bad". lol

[lkfmdc]

**cough**cough**uhm**cough

[IronWeasel]

Cast your ballots!




Can we vote for ourselves?

[taai gihk yahn]

there's only ONE bad boy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELRRQIVKHF8)...

[hskwarrior]

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE.......:eek: ME

WHO WANTS TO LIVE FOREVERRRRRRRRRR?

[goju]

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE.......:eek: ME

WHO WANTS TO LIVE FOREVERRRRRRRRRR?

YES THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!!

EXCEPT WHEN THEY DO A SEQUEL TO THE MOVIE, THEN A THIRD INSTALLMENT ,THEN A SERIES WITH A COMPELTELY DIFFERENT GUY ,THEN ANOTHER FINAL MOVIE BEFORE THEY MAKE A MADE FOR TV ONE THAT MAKES NO SENSE,


THEN!!!
there can be only one

.... i think

[hskwarrior]

THAT'S THE MAKINGS OF AN IMMORTAL KFM BAD BOY.....lol

[IronWeasel]

I dunno...I'm kinda on the fence about this guy.

Maybe he's legit.

It's obvious that he has had classical Chinese training since he wears a Nike "swoosh" skullcap, just like the masters of old.

He even bears other trappings of a sifu such as the white, size Small, emo, skater boy T-shirt. And judging from the pic, his rank is "Blue-Paisley-Sash".

It's not easy to earn the coveted emo Blue-Paisley-Sash...not by breaking bricks...not by breaking boards...not even by breaking concrete blocks. He probably broke Robert Pattinson's heart, though.

[cerebus]

I dunno...I'm kinda on the fence about this guy.

Maybe he's legit.

It's obvious that he has had classical Chinese training since he wears a Nike "swoosh" skullcap, just like the masters of old.

He even bears other trappings of a sifu such as the white, size Small, emo, skater boy T-shirt. And judging from the pic, his rank is "Blue-Paisley-Sash".

It's not easy to earn the coveted emo Blue-Paisley-Sash...not by breaking bricks...not by breaking boards...not even by breaking concrete blocks. He probably broke Robert Pattinson's heart, though.

ROFLMAO!! Ouch! :p:D

[IronWeasel]

WuDang Zen:

I am Certified!

http://top10kid.com/wp-content/uploads/emo.jpg

[David Jamieson]

being "certified" in zen strikes me as odd to begin with.

also mishing the wudang with the mash of zen, as stated don't fit wit it.

having no ass at all and wearing a crip cloth doesn't help either.

and his attitude sucks for someone who claims to be an 20 year ima prac.

[BGZ BadBoy]

I'm sorry, but I had to respond to David's post in my Blog..it is so blatantly misguided and ignorant, I just couldn't help myself..lol.
http://www.wudangzenfightclub.yolasite.com/

Eventually, I'll bore of this, but occasionally I just gotta call you guys on your idiot remarks..lol.

Si-Fu Tyson Durr
WuDang Zen Fight Club

[goju]

I'm sorry, but I had to respond to David's post in my Blog..it is so blatantly misguided and ignorant, I just couldn't help myself..lol.
http://www.wudangzenfightclub.yolasite.com/

Eventually, I'll bore of this, but occasionally I just gotta call you guys on your idiot remarks..lol.

Si-Fu Tyson Durr
WuDang Zen Fight Club

I dunno about you guys but i personally think the word "motherf@cker" wasnt used in that blog enough:D:p

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rIl0HM6XQo

It took me a while to know this idea

you go thru the time machine and violate the law

you kill your self some many times in so many lives

and so you be the master of a one

add all of you to be you

---

wow

I do not mind being just be one of many me's

--

now my brain hurts

---

:)

[uki]

anyone that wears a bandana in their back pocket gets my vote... i'll vote with BOTH(all two) sides of my brain if the bad boy wears a pretty pink bandana instead of blue one for his picture shoot. :D

[David Jamieson]

I'm sorry, but I had to respond to David's post in my Blog..it is so blatantly misguided and ignorant, I just couldn't help myself..lol.
http://www.gay-porn-stars.com/

Eventually, I'll bore of this, but occasionally I just gotta call you guys on your idiot remarks..lol.

Si-Fu Tyson Durr
WuDang Zen Fight Club


so, you were going to respond? please do and enlighten us as to why your practice has somehow made you this belligerent loud mouth with a poor attitude and the marketing skills of a gnat.

posting a link to an ever changing and poorly designed site doesn't count as a response.

now eat your bitter! lol

[David Jamieson]

so, you were going to respond? please do and enlighten us as to why your practice has somehow made you this belligerent loud mouth with a poor attitude and the marketing skills of a gnat.

posting a link to an ever changing and poorly designed site doesn't count as a response.

now eat your bitter! lol


...also, if your lineage is of merit, why are you stealing the work of someone else, from another site and presenting it as if it is from your pool? wouldn't you be able to get those translations in your lineage if you were legitimate?

I think personally you watched too many of Novells videos and are now just a poor emulation of that. At least Novell has some flavour, your vanilla ass is hardly up to that caliber of video fu and smack down chit chat. lol

[taai gihk yahn]

Is it just me, or do I distinctly recall a storm-off on his part where he stated he wasn't going to post here anymore?

[David Jamieson]

Is it just me, or do I distinctly recall a storm-off on his part where he stated he wasn't going to post here anymore?

yes...well, I don't think we are dealing with a solid type of individual here.

He's changed his site several times based solely on teh taunts of Masterkiller. Which in and of itself is hilarious on a couple of levels.

he's exhibiting behaviours that are indicative of a slew of mechanical failures in the grey engine.

anyway.... :p

[Lokhopkuen]

Cast your ballots!

I am:D

Just came back off of the road 5 days @ $1,000 per day plus (per diem) with no sleep, headaches, Patron, Rappers, Moguls, Bandits, Orgies with Super Models and TV Stars at the Coachella Music festival. Rocked out with Jay Z, Beyonce , Russell Summons, Interscope Records, got in two knock outs, four sleeper holds, 19 Chin Na and seven wrestles with locking and submission.:rolleyes:

Yup I win. LMAO:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVuNYVhlAXg

[MasterKiller]

I am:D

Just came back off of the road 5 days @ $1,000 per day plus (per diem) with no sleep, headaches, Patron, Rappers, Moguls, Bandits, Orgies with Super Models and TV Stars at the Coachella Music festival. Rocked out with Jay Z, Beyonce , Russell Summons, Interscope Records, got in two knock outs, four sleeper holds, 19 Chin Na and seven wrestles with locking and submission.:rolleyes:

Yup I win. LMAO:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVuNYVhlAXg

That's pimp, but it ain't bad.

[Eddie]

bad ass!

if Kisu actually touched beyonce's ass, I vote him Bad Boy of KFM for life!

[Scott R. Brown]

YES THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!!

EXCEPT WHEN THEY DO A SEQUEL TO THE MOVIE, THEN A THIRD INSTALLMENT ,THEN A SERIES WITH A COMPELTELY DIFFERENT GUY ,THEN ANOTHER FINAL MOVIE BEFORE THEY MAKE A MADE FOR TV ONE THAT MAKES NO SENSE,


THEN!!!
there can be only one

.... i think

Don't forget a poorly made spin off with an an actress that makes it hard to decide which is worse, her acting or her sword skills!


I'm sorry, but I had to respond to David's post in my Blog..it is so blatantly misguided and ignorant, I just couldn't help myself..lol.
http://www.wudangzenfightclub.yolasite.com/

Eventually, I'll bore of this, but occasionally I just gotta call you guys on your idiot remarks..lol.

Si-Fu Tyson Durr
WuDang Zen Fight Club

You are such a wuss you have to respond on your blog?

How about act like the man you are pretending to be and respond here!

If you can't face anyone in a pretend arena what makes you think you can face anyone in, "THE FIGHT CLUB!!!!!":eek:

Do you think posting on your blog will embarrass anyone here?

All it does it make you look more and more like the pu$$y you are!


anyone that wears a bandana in their back pocket gets my vote... i'll vote with BOTH(all two) sides of my brain if the bad boy wears a pretty pink bandana instead of blue one for his picture shoot. :D

He does wear a pink one....it is silk and it covers his Pebbles and BamBam!!!:eek:


Is it just me, or do I distinctly recall a storm-off on his part where he stated he wasn't going to post here anymore?

Isn't that the #1 sign of a pu$$Y......"I not talking to you ANYMORE......except for this one last time.....and this one last time.....and this one last time.......and this one last time......but aside from that, I AM NOT TALKING TO YOU ANY MORE.....except for this one last time......and this one last time........and this one last time............and......

[MightyB]

I am:D

Just came back off of the road 5 days @ $1,000 per day plus (per diem) with no sleep, headaches, Patron, Rappers, Moguls, Bandits, Orgies with Super Models and TV Stars at the Coachella Music festival. Rocked out with Jay Z, Beyonce , Russell Summons, Interscope Records, got in two knock outs, four sleeper holds, 19 Chin Na and seven wrestles with locking and submission.:rolleyes:

Yup I win. LMAO:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVuNYVhlAXg

So is anyone else so insanely jealous of Lokhopkuen that they hate him just a little bit now, or is just me?

I guess I'll have to 3rd the vote for Lok.

[David Jamieson]

Are you gonna put up a voting poll for this MK?

I want to vote for myself. :D

[Lokhopkuen]

So is anyone else so insanely jealous of Lokhopkuen that they hate him just a little bit now, or is just me?

I guess I'll have to 3rd the vote for Lok.

Oh I also hung out with some cute girl from sex in the city. She was tickled the fu*k that I didn't know who the heck she was:rolleyes: Did I mention that there was absolutely no high quality cocaine, not a lick of ultra pure ecstasy and not one bit of a broad selection of various tasty ganja s, hashish or mushrooms. Chocolate mushrooms; there were none of them there either.

PS
I love me some Beyonce:D

[Lokhopkuen]

I have it on good authority that Gene's wallet says Bad Mother F@cker.

You haven't met the man I see:rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

You haven't met the man I see:rolleyes:

Actually, I have. Booya!

[GeneChing]

But it has an image of the eyes of Buddha on it.
http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/images/symbols/thumbs/buddha-eyes.jpg
It's getting pretty worn out. I need a new one. Moreso, I need something to put in it. :o

Hey Lokhopkuen, did get all the Coachella dust out of your nostrils yet? We want to see the pic of you with Beyonce!

[Lokhopkuen]

...also, if your lineage is of merit, why are you stealing the work of someone else, from another site and presenting it as if it is from your pool? wouldn't you be able to get those translations in your lineage if you were legitimate?

I think personally you watched too many of Novells videos and are now just a poor emulation of that. At least Novell has some flavour, your vanilla ass is hardly up to that caliber of video fu and smack down chit chat. lol

You are nicest man Jamieson:rolleyes:

[Lokhopkuen]

But it has an image of the eyes of Buddha on it.
http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/images/symbols/thumbs/buddha-eyes.jpg
It's getting pretty worn out. I need a new one. Moreso, I need something to put in it. :o

Hey Lokhopkuen, did get all the Coachella dust out of your nostrils yet? We want to see the pic of you with Beyonce!

<<<SNIF-SNIF>>>>

Don't know Fhat the Wuck you're talking about:D

<<<SNIF-SNIF>>>>

Gene where can I purchase one of these Eye of the Buddha Wallets?

[David Jamieson]

You are nicest man Jamieson:rolleyes:

not really.

Im no good samaritan. Certainly no love lost for this guy. Not yet anyway, you never know. :p

[Lokhopkuen]

I'm sorry, but I had to respond to David's post in my Blog..it is so blatantly misguided and ignorant, I just couldn't help myself..lol.
http://www.wudangzenfightclub.yolasite.com/

Eventually, I'll bore of this, but occasionally I just gotta call you guys on your idiot remarks..lol.

Si-Fu Tyson Durr
WuDang Zen Fight Club

I love the internet:D

[David Jamieson]

dontcha just? :p

It is TEH AWESOMZ®

[ghostexorcist]

YES THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!!

EXCEPT WHEN THEY DO A SEQUEL TO THE MOVIE, THEN A THIRD INSTALLMENT ,THEN A SERIES WITH A COMPELTELY DIFFERENT GUY ,THEN ANOTHER FINAL MOVIE BEFORE THEY MAKE A MADE FOR TV ONE THAT MAKES NO SENSE,


THEN!!!
there can be only one

.... i think
Perfect recap of the franchise!

[David Jamieson]

and now a musical intermission...

no worries, you'll like it.
and if you don't, take it up with your gay boyfriend. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhwPbbs5X9w

[Yum Cha]

I am:D

Just came back off of the road 5 days @ $1,000 per day plus (per diem) with no sleep, headaches, Patron, Rappers, Moguls, Bandits, Orgies with Super Models and TV Stars at the Coachella Music festival. Rocked out with Jay Z, Beyonce , Russell Summons, Interscope Records, got in two knock outs, four sleeper holds, 19 Chin Na and seven wrestles with locking and submission.:rolleyes:

Yup I win. LMAO:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVuNYVhlAXg

That the best you got??!! THAT THE BEST YOU GOT!!!!!

Ok, fair enough...Lok gets my vote. Hope you get over your cold...

[SoCo KungFu]

I am:D

Just came back off of the road 5 days @ $1,000 per day plus (per diem) with no sleep, headaches, Patron, Rappers, Moguls, Bandits, Orgies with Super Models and TV Stars at the Coachella Music festival. Rocked out with Jay Z, Beyonce , Russell Summons, Interscope Records, got in two knock outs, four sleeper holds, 19 Chin Na and seven wrestles with locking and submission.:rolleyes:

Yup I win. LMAO:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVuNYVhlAXg

I hate you so much....
I so miss Cali...man I want to go back to San Diego....in other news, we drafted Ryan Mathews!!!!

....did I mention I hate you?.....:D

[solo1]

My vote is to Karate Monkey.:

[SPJ]

to be bad or good boy in the forum

it should be some one that posts at least 3 posts daily since signing on the board

---

like moi and many others.

not someone that suddenly posting a lot like a super nova

only lasts for a few days

--

however, all that glitters may not shine---

--

I guess that I am only a home boy (nice/good boy) that sweeps (posts) the forum daily.

actually I lurk or haunt over 20 forums daily.

--

I meant real bad boys are lurking and may not post as much--

--

:D

[David Jamieson]

what's that? more music?

here's one from the age of pink shirts for men! (the 80's)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-TfKHKbNys

[GeneChing]

Ironically, I got mine at a music festival. It was either Reggae Rising (http://reggaerising.com/home.php) or Sierra Nevada World Music Festival (http://www.snwmf.com/index2.html) last year. I got it from a booth - one of the Tibetan importers.

I've actually never worked Coachella, but I've had many friends work and play there. They all comment about the dust and lack of decent watering holes. You're the first friend I've heard from about this year's event, LHK (I've been laying low from working the music scene lately). How did the show go? Who was hot? Any acts steal the stage?

[David Jamieson]

Ironically, I got mine at a music festival. It was either Reggae Rising (http://reggaerising.com/home.php) or Sierra Nevada World Music Festival (http://www.snwmf.com/index2.html) last year. I got it from a booth - one of the Tibetan importers.

I've actually never worked Coachella, but I've had many friends work and play there. They all comment about the dust and lack of decent watering holes. You're the first friend I've heard from about this year's event, LHK (I've been laying low from working the music scene lately). How did the show go? Who was hot? Any acts steal the stage?

back in the late 80's my business partner and I used to pick up material in India and Tibet (
Dharamshala, Sikkim and Mustang) go into Nepal and have it all made into retail goods right in Kathmandu and then cart them back in duffel bags to Canada where we would sell it through our store front and through universities.

we had plenty of those buddha eye wallets, shirts etc.

By the time 1995 rolled around, the whole country was saturated with hegemonic goods and we had sold our last saddle blanket.

Those were the days. Oh yes, plenty of big fests. Coachella is pretty new though as fests go. I think it's only been around for 10 years or so.

[SPJ]

the whole state of california will be full of bad boys

once we pass the legalization of ma ri jua na

imagine how many people would travel across the state line

and get high

--

:eek:

[Lucas]

the whole state of california will be full of bad boys

once we pass the legalization of ma ri jua na

imagine how many people would travel across the state line

and get high

--

:eek:

thats what a lot of people do along the american / canadian border...

[David Jamieson]

"welcome to B.C you poor oppressed americans" they say.

[David Jamieson]

the whole state of california will be full of bad boys

once we pass the legalization of ma ri jua na

imagine how many people would travel across the state line

and get high

--

:eek:

well, you are ridiculously in debt and pretty much bankrupt. You gotta rejuvenate California's economy somehow. Only so many tortillas and surf lessons you can sell right? :p

[Lokhopkuen]

well, you are ridiculously in debt and pretty much bankrupt. You gotta rejuvenate California's economy somehow. Only so many tortillas and surf lessons you can sell right? :p

Polar Bear got jokes:p

[Lucas]

"welcome to B.C you poor oppressed americans" they say.

pretty much :D i used to live in northern washington as a teen, used to cross up to vancouver pretty often for concerts, drinking and tshirts. some great concert venues from what i remember.

[Lokhopkuen]

That the best you got??!! THAT THE BEST YOU GOT!!!!!

Ok, fair enough...Lok gets my vote. Hope you get over your cold...

((((((A-ChOO!!!))))))):rolleyes:

[Lokhopkuen]

**** if i hadnt gotten the white kimbo title already i would soooooo have this one

Actually I vote for Goju just for him being so Suave Rico:D

[Lokhopkuen]

I hate you so much....
I so miss Cali...man I want to go back to San Diego....in other news, we drafted Ryan Mathews!!!!

....did I mention I hate you?.....:D

This is for all the haters yo (http://s0.ilike.com/play#X2:Hi+Haters:156701387:m35813297):p;):D:rolle yes::cool:

[ghostexorcist]

Did BG kid's thread get deleted? I certainly hope so. Blatant trolling should be taken care of swiftly. I'm surprised that it was active as long as it was.

[BGZ BadBoy]

Ghostexorcist..Here's a little Troll action, just for you..lol.

http://www.wudangzenfightclub.yolasite.com/

Oh, and BTW, the threads were merged. Beyond that, if a thread I post gets redundant (or I simply bore with it) I typically delete it (depends on the mood I'm in..lol).

[taai gihk yahn]

Ghostexorcist..Here's a little Troll action, just for you..lol.

http://www.wudangzenfightclub.yolasite.com/

Oh, and BTW, the threads were merged. Beyond that, if a thread I post gets redundant (or I simply bore with it) I typically delete it (depends on the mood I'm in..lol).

hey - I like what you wrote about "qi" not being "mystical", but rather correct physiology (or whatever);

my personal feeling is this: "qi" is a metaphorical descriptor that encompasses the net effect of interacting body systems and the environment within which that body functions (world / universe); meaning that it isn't a "thing" per se, but an observable set of interrelationships that, when functioning properly result in a dynamic homeostasis, that is, the body is optimally primed for adaptability to change;

so, when we look at so-called "internal" practice (martial or health, whatever), it is, in effect, "challenging" the system to adapt to imposed, relatively-predictable changes, perhaps in anticipation of unforeseen circumstances - sort of like a vaccine against the unknown; of course, combat can be one of those unforseen circumstances, but so can bad weather, emotional stress, etc.

looking at something like bagua or taiji, they, in different ways, correlate to Yi Jing; now, lots of people think it's a "magical" text, but, at least according to my sifu, it's really more of a sociologists handbook - meaning that it looks at the "natural" progression of society from simple to complex and describes the way society interacts and functions; also, there's a correlate to the human body from a Taoist physiological perspective as well; so any practice predicated on Yi Jing should, theoretically, be "stressing" the body in a complete and balanced manner, in effect priming it against all types of eventualities, at least in principle;

that, or I'm nuts;

thoughts?

[BGZ BadBoy]

Actually, your observation on "homeostasis" was interesting. People are typically so far removed from natural system homeostasis, that when this state is naturally realized, it seems almost mystical and magical to the average observer. In fact, all of the techniques, training drills, etc. in BaGuaZhang are intended to teach us about a more natural way of moving, to develop a more natural strength, and to bring into balance the system's many and varied biological systems for optimum performance.,to return us to the "natural", so to speak.
Good observations. Peace.

[TenTigers]

Actually, your observation on "homeostasis" was interesting. People are typically so far removed from natural system homeostasis, that when this state is naturally realized, it seems almost mystical and magical to the average observer. In fact, all of the techniques, training drills, etc. in BaGuaZhang are intended to teach us about a more natural way of moving, to develop a more natural strength, and to bring into balance the system's many and varied biological systems for optimum performance.,to return us to the "natural", so to speak.
Good observations. Peace.

OK, WHO ARE YOU, AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH TYSON DURR?????!!!!:eek:

[TenTigers]

I mean, if you buried the little putz, it's ok. You can stay.
I was just curious.....


:p

[uki]

I mean, if you buried the little putz, it's ok. You can stay.i think he realized the folly of being a tough guy around here. :p

I was just curious.....
curiosity killed the cat...

[BGZ BadBoy]

To answer your observation, Uki, NOPE..lol. Occasionally, a thread (or individual post) calls for my deeply insightful observations..I am more than happy, on these rare occasions, to oblige.
Don't get used to it, though..lol.

[uki]

To answer your observation, Uki, NOPE..lol. LOL... what question are you referring to that i asked you??


Occasionally, a thread (or individual post) calls for my deeply insightful observations..obviously nothing has caught your attention yet. :D

I am more than happy, on these rare occasions, to oblige.so you'll be coming over to my house to give me a bada$$ lesson?? i can assure you that my directions will lead you to my house, but something tells me your legs are not attached and joined by a set of bad a$$ balls.


Don't get used to it, though..lol.dude... i would take your bad a$$ blue bandana and shove it down your god **** throat, tie your skinny little arms into a pretzel, and type posts with your nose. :)

[BGZ BadBoy]

Uki..um, sure. Seems your delusions run very deep, my friend.

[uki]

Uki..um, sure. Seems your delusions run very deep, my friend.but the directions to my house are very real. :)

[BGZ BadBoy]

As is all of my posted, personal contact information, Uki (along with a standing, open invitation to anyone who would like to take advantage of that fact..lol).

[Lokhopkuen]

Actually, your observation on "homeostasis" was interesting. People are typically so far removed from natural system homeostasis, that when this state is naturally realized, it seems almost mystical and magical to the average observer. In fact, all of the techniques, training drills, etc. in BaGuaZhang are intended to teach us about a more natural way of moving, to develop a more natural strength, and to bring into balance the system's many and varied biological systems for optimum performance.,to return us to the "natural", so to speak.
Good observations. Peace.

I have to respectfully disagree:
To adhere to the principles governing Bagua practice, a seeker must warp their body into even the most basic requirement. I dare say it is anything BUT natural...


Here is a short excerpt of Bagua principles by Chiang Jung Chiao:

Straighten the neck; ; lift the crown. Tuck the buttocks; hold the
anus. Let the neck bone become naturally straight. In practice do
not raise or bend your head. Do not tilt your head from side to
side. When the head lifts, the chin should tuck in. The buttocks
contract inwards. The tailbone does not stick out even a hair's-
breadth. The rectal muscles are contracted internally.

Relax the shoulders; sink the elbows. Strengthen the belly; open
the chest. Your shoulders should tilt downward. They should be
relaxed, but still they should be sunken in. In practice do not let
your shoulders rise up. Your elbows should always be sunken and
dropped downward. In practice your elbows must always remain in
a "Half-moon" shape. The abdomen is the place for nurturing the qi.
You must allow inhalation and exhalation to move deep within, right
to the abdomen. This will make the abdomen completely permeated with
the pulsating qi. Thus, there is a common saying, "Qi sinks to
the dantian; internally there is a vibration." If your chest sticks
out, this will naturally affect the breath and the sinking of your
qi into your dantian. If your chest is pressed inward, this will
squeeze the heart and obstruct the flow of blood. Thus, simply
relax and open the chest; do not lift it; do not depress it.
:D;):rolleyes::cool:

[SoCo KungFu]

To answer your observation, Uki, NOPE..lol. Occasionally, a thread (or individual post) calls for my deeply insightful observations..I am more than happy, on these rare occasions, to oblige.
Don't get used to it, though..lol.

And yet you still can't answer what credentials give you even half a right to call yourself experienced with fighting/MMA. Still waiting on a reply from Ike too.

All the bagua theory in the world doesn't necessarily make you a skilled fighter. There are lots of doctors in the world, I wouldn't trust a one of them to prepare me for a cage fight. So come on, out with it. Who have you trained? MMA was illegal in 99-01 in MO. Where did you fight?

You'll probably just run back to your blog with another one of your little ****erotic posts.

[Lokhopkuen]

Now, now;
Violence never solved anything ((((But it sure is fun))))):D


LOL... what question are you referring to that i asked you??
obviously nothing has caught your attention yet. :D
so you'll be coming over to my house to give me a bada$$ lesson?? i can assure you that my directions will lead you to my house, but something tells me your legs are not attached and joined by a set of bad a$$ balls.
dude... i would take your bad a$$ blue bandana and shove it down your god **** throat, tie your skinny little arms into a pretzel, and type posts with your nose. :)

[BGZ BadBoy]

No, SoCo, actually I've given you all of the information I'm going to give you, because honestly, I couldn't care less what a nobody, forum loud-mouth thinks. Now, put down the meth-pipe, take a deep breath, and realize, nobody cares..least of all, me..lol.
I'm simply going to ignore your inane ramblings from this point forward..I've already given you more information than you obviously deserve. Maybe eventually, just maybe, you'll find something more worthwhile to occupy your time apart from your obvious fixation and fascination with all things BGZ BadBoy..lol.

[BGZ BadBoy]

Lok..on the contrary, the seemingly "difficult" movements and physical requirements dictated by correct BaGuaZhang practice are intended to teach us about natural, powerful movement. The various internal and external requirements are only initially difficult because the average person is so used to moving unnaturally, that anything else is a completely foreign and uncomfortable concept.
Respectfully submitted in response, BTW..lol.

[Scott R. Brown]

The way people move spontaneously, in their everyday life, is the way they move NATURALLY.....to learn an artificial method of movement, then, is UN-NATURAL!

Bagua and Tai Chi and Hsing I and just about any other organized method of movement is NOT natural or people would NOT have to 'learn" to do them. If they were natural movement, it would be easy to learn and come NATURALLY!

Circles are NOT natural movement. Nature moves in ellipses, broken lines and random curves!

[BGZ BadBoy]

Obviously, Scott, you are still at an elementary level of understanding. Keep practicing..eventually, you may begin to understand what real, powerful, natural movement is all about.

[Scott R. Brown]

Obviously, Scott, you are still at an elementary level of understanding. Keep practicing..eventually, you may begin to understand what real, powerful, natural movement is all about.

Actually, I would say you are at a less than elementary level of understanding....but I won't hold that against you.

Not everyone feels blessed by your opinion of your own level of insight and knowledge, which is clearly only rudimentary!

You still have a looooong way to go! You will not progress much further with your narrow understanding, and ignorant, yet superior, attitude!

You would profit more from being silent and learning from your older and wiser betters!

[Scott R. Brown]

All you have done is repeat what you have been taught and haven't spent much time considering the truth or falsity of it.

If you practice questioning what you have been taught you will find that most of these movements are decidedly UNNATURAL.

Consider Bagua's circle walking with the outward twisting of the waist. This is very POOR spinal alignment and could be dangerous in many daily activities, especially in a fight.

Think for yourself and try not to parrot what you have been taught! Just because something has been taught for hundreds of years does not make it automatically correct.

[dimethylsea]

Scott,

Isn't there some Chinese saying about a frog in a well? :) :)

[TenTigers]

frankly, (and this is just my opinion, mind you) I believe it is a misinterpetation of the term, "natural movement," when applied to Martial Arts. Barring something that will cause an injury, all movement is natural, as our bodies have many joints and ranges of motion. However, that being said, none of the movements are natural, as they all need to be learned and strictly practiced- for a very long time before they become conditioned responses, and feel as if they are natural. Natural also means not fighting yourself, meaning not only flexibility, but relaxation, of body and mind.
I believe if you can use this interpetation, both Scott Brown and Tyler Durr's doppleganger *can come to a mutual understanding.




*maybe you got them all fooled, but you're not fooling me! I don't know who sent you here, or what your insidious mission is, but it won't work! You may be a walk-in, a gwai, a dibbyck, a pod, a V, or an incubus, but mark my words, you will be unmasked!

[Scott R. Brown]

My contention is that "natural movement" is movement that occurs spontaneously according to specific situations, that is, from specific causes/needs of the moment.

Swimming is different than climbing a rope, so the body will spontaneously move differently according to each circumstance.

However, when swimming ,and rope climbing, there are a specific movements that are more efficient than others and "the basic beginners method" is rarely the most efficient/effective.

The type of swimming stroke that is the most efficient according to the needs at the time is not always the one the beginner uses due to a lack of understanding and training. If one wants to move as quickly as possible one uses the crawl stroke, however the crawl stroke requires more energy than the breast stroke, so if one has a long way to swim and is not a trained swimmer, the breast stroke would be more efficient under those specific circumstances.

Both are natural movements in that the body MAY function efficiently using either stroke according to the circumstance.

The dog paddle on the other hand, while a "naturally occurring" stroke for the untrained, is one of the most inefficient and energy wasting strokes people use, even though it is also the most common one used by the untrained.

When fighting there are certain movements that the untrained "naturally" fall into which are generally avoided by those who are trained.


Confusion then arises when a specific art teaches that certain "artificially" created movements are naturally occurring. While the body may be able to move in a "specified" manner that manner of movement is NOT always the most efficient, or safe, for the purpose at hand.

One of the most dangerous methods of movement is twisting the hips in one direction while the shoulders twist in the opposite direction. This torquing of the spine is dangerous, it is unstable and causes shearing forces along the spinal column that may lead to serious injury, especially during the forceful and sudden movements in a fight.

That does not mean that this type of movement never occurs in a fight or that one should not train some of these movements, I am specifying that this movement as trained in Bagua is NOT a natural movement in the sense of safe and efficient for fighting.

I will not address other flaws of "natural" movements such as sinking the chest and tucking the anus that are taught in many arts etc. because the above makes my point pretty well I think!

[SoCo KungFu]

My contention is that "natural movement" is movement that occurs spontaneously according to specific situations, that is, from specific causes/needs of the moment.

Swimming is different than climbing a rope, so the body will spontaneously move differently according to each circumstance.

However, when swimming ,and rope climbing, there are a specific movements that are more efficient than others and "the basic beginners method" is rarely the most efficient/effective.

The type of swimming stroke that is the most efficient according to the needs at the time is not always the one the beginner uses due to a lack of understanding and training. If one wants to move as quickly as possible one uses the crawl stroke, however the crawl stroke requires more energy than the breast stroke, so if one has a long way to swim and is not a trained swimmer, the breast stroke would be more efficient under those specific circumstances.

Both are natural movements in that the body MAY function efficiently using either stroke according to the circumstance.

The dog paddle on the other hand, while a "naturally occurring" stroke for the untrained, is one of the most inefficient and energy wasting strokes people use, even though it is also the most common one used by the untrained.

When fighting there are certain movements that the untrained "naturally" fall into which are generally avoided by those who are trained.


Confusion then arises when a specific art teaches that certain "artificially" created movements are naturally occurring. While the body may be able to move in a "specified" manner that manner of movement is NOT always the most efficient, or safe, for the purpose at hand.

One of the most dangerous methods of movement is twisting the hips in one direction while the shoulders twist in the opposite direction. This torquing of the spine is dangerous, it is unstable and causes shearing forces along the spinal column that may lead to serious injury, especially during the forceful and sudden movements in a fight.

That does not mean that this type of movement never occurs in a fight or that one should not train some of these movements, I am specifying that this movement as trained in Bagua is NOT a natural movement in the sense of safe and efficient for fighting.

I will not address other flaws of "natural" movements such as sinking the chest and tucking the anus that are taught in many arts etc. because the above makes my point pretty well I think!

I don't know about all that. But I can tell you that you cross up your legs like that to me and that's one giant, blinking, red, neon sign telling me to shoot your *** to the ground and pound your face into concrete. Whether it's natural or not, its a pretty stupid thing to try and do in the event you might be fighting someone bigger, stronger, wrestler, football player, etc. Esp if you're as small as twig arms there.

[SoCo KungFu]

No, SoCo, actually I've given you all of the information I'm going to give you, because honestly, I couldn't care less what a nobody, forum loud-mouth thinks. Now, put down the meth-pipe, take a deep breath, and realize, nobody cares..least of all, me..lol.
I'm simply going to ignore your inane ramblings from this point forward..I've already given you more information than you obviously deserve. Maybe eventually, just maybe, you'll find something more worthwhile to occupy your time apart from your obvious fixation and fascination with all things BGZ BadBoy..lol.

So basically you're just another mouth-boxer with no legitimate credibility posing on the internet making ******* challenges for people to travel halfway across the country like they got nothing better to do than beat the **** out your candy ass. Oh then threaten to call the cops in the process. Gotcha

And you wonder why you're a joke...

[dimethylsea]

Honestly I would say bagua is profoundly "un-natural".. it makes your body into something that routinely does things that aren't normal at all.

You want to do it until this "un natural" thing becomes your "new normal".. so in that sense.. yes you gotta "do it naturally"... but the actual method is anything but natural or normal.

That's why it is fun. If you could just hoist a few at the pub and instantly do it.. it wouldn't be nearly as much fun.


Doing things that aren't natural/normal is alot of fun. Once those abnormal unnatural things become normal.. you go find some other weird ass thing to make into part of your "evolving notion of what typical is".

[Scott R. Brown]

I don't know about all that. But I can tell you that you cross up your legs like that to me and that's one giant, blinking, red, neon sign telling me to shoot your *** to the ground and pound your face into concrete. Whether it's natural or not, its a pretty stupid thing to try and do in the event you might be fighting someone bigger, stronger, wrestler, football player, etc. Esp if you're as small as twig arms here.

Due to your experience and training you directly perceive the weakness in your opponent and immediate exploit it to your advantage!

You have expressed the same principles I have, but in different terms, the terms of action, rather than as an analysis of the principles of movement in relation to body structure.

You have expressed what works and I have expressed, albeit in an abbreviated and roundabout manner, the principles of why it works!

In a fight what matters most is what allows you to prevail!

Knowing what works and knowing why it works are are sometime mutually exclusive, but they don't have to be.

[Scott R. Brown]

Honestly I would say bagua is profoundly "un-natural".. it makes your body into something that routinely does things that aren't normal at all.

You want to do it until this "un natural" thing becomes your "new normal".. so in that sense.. yes you gotta "do it naturally"... but the actual method is anything but natural or normal.

That's why it is fun. If you could just hoist a few at the pub and instantly do it.. it wouldn't be nearly as much fun.


Doing things that aren't natural/normal is alot of fun. Once those abnormal unnatural things become normal.. you go find some other weird ass thing to make into part of your "evolving notion of what typical is".

Very good point!

My critical analysis should not be taken as a disrespect for the art under examination.

I appreciate Bagua, Tai chi, etc.

However, after one passes the beginners stage, it is beneficial to question everything one has learned. What one keeps and what one discards should be based upon what one wishes to accomplish. I have no problem with people practicing needless forms or inefficient techniques.

If they get something out of it, good for them! But if your purpose is to prevail in fights, one must be able to make a critical analysis of what one is practicing and discard what is useless to your needs and purpose.

Most of us have only a limited time to train due to life's responsibilities, therefore if one wish to prevail in fights it would behoove one to discard everything that is useless to that goal and focus on what works best MOST of the time.

While circle walking is indeed enjoyable, and may provide some other benefits, it is decidedly a poor use of time if one wishes to conserve time and maximize training efficiency!

[TenTigers]

I don't know about all that. But I can tell you that you cross up your legs like that to me and that's one giant, blinking, red, neon sign telling me to shoot your *** to the ground and pound your face into concrete. Whether it's natural or not, its a pretty stupid thing to try and do in the event you might be fighting someone bigger, stronger, wrestler, football player, etc. Esp if you're as small as twig arms there.
It has been in my brief experience in BaGua, that the crossing of the legs is not a stance, as much as it is a transitional step in order to remain balanced during a throw or leg sweep. (if you take your opponent's head one way and his leg the other, what do you look like?) Taken out of contex, the twisting, crossing steps, toe in, toe out, circling footwork, etc can appear pretty lame to someone unfamiliar with the training.
This is really basic stuff, we're talkiing about.

[SoCo KungFu]

It has been in my brief experience in BaGua, that the crossing of the legs is not a stance, as much as it is a transitional step in order to remain balanced during a throw or leg sweep. (if you take your opponent's head one way and his leg the other, what do you look like?) Taken out of contex, the twisting, crossing steps, toe in, toe out, circling footwork, etc can appear pretty lame to someone unfamiliar with the training.
This is really basic stuff, we're talkiing about.

It takes more force for you to reap my legs in an unbalanced position than it does for me to maintain structural integrity. That's why those techniques work best on an opponent in motion or caught with one foot off the ground, or when you can get leverage to lift you opponent up and then suck the legs out from under.

We're taught to shoot in on someone even doing something as quick as changing from orthodox to southpaw or vice versa. What you're essentially telling me is that not only are they crossing up their legs but they're going to actually come into MY clinching range to do so...how about they just fall and smack their head on the ground to save myself from having to do anything.

Can it work? Yes.
Would it be wise to try such techniques in the presence of someone from a superior grappling art (standing or otherwise)? I don't think it is.

Transition or not, you cross your legs you better be sure it works or you're getting dumped. That's just really basic stuff...

[Scott R. Brown]

It has been in my brief experience in BaGua, that the crossing of the legs is not a stance, as much as it is a transitional step in order to remain balanced during a throw or leg sweep. (if you take your opponent's head one way and his leg the other, what do you look like?) Taken out of contex, the twisting, crossing steps, toe in, toe out, circling footwork, etc can appear pretty lame to someone unfamiliar with the training.
This is really basic stuff, we're talkiing about.

This is also a very good point!

It is still an unstable and risky movement in many circumstances though.

I prefer the pivoting of the hips and feet used in Aikido, as demonstrated in some expressions of Kokyu Nage. One maintains a more stable center of gravity with this type of throw then!

[Scott R. Brown]

It takes more force for you to reap my legs in an unbalanced position than it does for me to maintain structural integrity. That's why those techniques work best on an opponent in motion or caught with one foot off the ground, or when you can get leverage to lift you opponent up and then suck the legs out from under.

We're taught to shoot in on someone even doing something as quick as changing from orthodox to southpaw or vice versa. What you're essentially telling me is that not only are they crossing up their legs but they're going to actually come into MY clinching range to do so...how about they just fall and smack their head on the ground to save myself from having to do anything.

Can it work? Yes.
Would it be wise to try such techniques in the presence of someone from a superior grappling art (standing or otherwise)? I don't think it is.

Transition or not, you cross your legs you better be sure it works or you're getting dumped. That's just really basic stuff...

This is exactly the difficulty one has when going up against a well trained grappler. Any change in stance, or even just standing in one place for too long, creates an opportunity for a takedown!

[TenTigers]

the cross is where you end up after the leg is swept, meaning you go through. look at Judo's ashi-waza.

[SoCo KungFu]

This is exactly the difficulty one has when going up against a well trained grappler. Any change in stance, or even just standing in one place for too long, creates an opportunity for a takedown!

Its like an osoto-gari. Beautiful (and devastating) when pulled off. But you can't just use it blindly. When you go for those type of throws, you become committed to its success. If it fails you've just given an open door access to your flank and its very difficult to set up with somebody trying throw throw knuckles in your face and not letting you just waltz up beside them.

Like I said, it can be done. But do you want to risk it? Judo guys can hang with a lot of grapplers, they're art is grappling and they do at least have some experience on the ground (in the event they succeed or even better, they fail). But would Joe Bagua fair so well? I'd put my money on no.

[SoCo KungFu]

the cross is where you end up after the leg is swept, meaning you go through. look at Judo's ashi-waza.

No the cross is the action that reaps or traps the leg. When it fails you have a compromised base and an opponent that is in a position of leverage.

[TenTigers]

No the cross is the action that reaps or traps the leg. When it fails you have a compromised base and an opponent that is in a position of leverage.
ok, but isn't that the same in any sweep or reaping action? Isn't that the same in any move, period? Sure, when they go wrong, you are in a vulnerable position. When anything goes wrong, you are in a vulnerable position. No ****.
Why is this any different?

[MasterKiller]

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab254/buffersfluffer/908549691.jpg

[uki]

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab254/buffersfluffer/908549691.jpgwow... nevermind tyson... i don't want you to come to my house!!! :eek::D

[Lokhopkuen]

Ironically, I got mine at a music festival. It was either Reggae Rising (http://reggaerising.com/home.php) or Sierra Nevada World Music Festival (http://www.snwmf.com/index2.html) last year. I got it from a booth - one of the Tibetan importers.

I've actually never worked Coachella, but I've had many friends work and play there. They all comment about the dust and lack of decent watering holes. You're the first friend I've heard from about this year's event, LHK (I've been laying low from working the music scene lately). How did the show go? Who was hot? Any acts steal the stage?

I got a chance to look out from back stage a couple of times to a sea of never ending heads but we spent most of the time backstage in an air conditioned tent. No mud, no dust just luxury chill.

Hey I'll be in the bay soon, we gotta do Indian again.

K

[Scott R. Brown]

Its like an osoto-gari. Beautiful (and devastating) when pulled off. But you can't just use it blindly. When you go for those type of throws, you become committed to its success. If it fails you've just given an open door access to your flank and its very difficult to set up with somebody trying throw throw knuckles in your face and not letting you just waltz up beside them.

Like I said, it can be done. But do you want to risk it? Judo guys can hang with a lot of grapplers, they're art is grappling and they do at least have some experience on the ground (in the event they succeed or even better, they fail). But would Joe Bagua fair so well? I'd put my money on no.

You really can't use anything blindly...all techniques have their place and their counters and there vulnerabilities. That is a large part of what defines someone as skilled; having the ability to execute the right technique at the right time that results in success as well as avoiding the wrong technique at the wrong time. :)

[David Jamieson]

yeesh, Lord and Lady Lardlington there....wow.

[Scott R. Brown]

yeesh, Lord and Lady Lardlington there....wow.

I wonder if they have syphilis? :eek::D

[GeneChing]

I can never un-see that. :mad:

[dimethylsea]

Most of us have only a limited time to train due to life's responsibilities, therefore if one wish to prevail in fights it would behoove one to discard everything that is useless to that goal and focus on what works best MOST of the time.

While circle walking is indeed enjoyable, and may provide some other benefits, it is decidedly a poor use of time if one wishes to conserve time and maximize training efficiency!

Again I would have to point out.. it's been a LONG time since I was doing this primarily to prevail in fights.

I don't want to be the "chest-beater" that Tyson is.. but seriously.. to get really threatened I would have to go *looking* for someone (like a sport fighter or a senior martial artist from another style) or else seek out a violent street altercation.

When people talk about the "usefulness" of circle walking for fighting I usually ask them..
"Did you stop sleeping with your wife after you no longer wanted more children?"

If you didn't.. why.. what was the point?

Anyone with any emotional intelligence would look at that question like it was inane... and rightly so.

There is way more involved in circle walking that just being a spiralling circling combat nightmare.

[dimethylsea]

I can never un-see that. :mad:

Gene,

Your tears.... they sustain me :D

[BGZ BadBoy]

Scott..your so-called observations couldn't be further from the truth. You are clearly speaking from a novice's point of view when it comes to the Chinese internal martial arts, and more specifically, BaGuaZhang. The simple fact alone that you do not recognize the natural order and movement inherent in correct BaGuaZhang practice, as well as how the seemingly (at least in the eyes of an obvious novice) "unnatural" movements return us to our natural state (thus developing and releasing pure, natural, latent power), unquestionably demonstrates your complete and total lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject-matter at hand. My opinions are not solely based on what a handful of very accomplished martial artists have told me personally (namely Richard Wu, William Lee, and Erle Montaigue), but on my own experiential knowledge which obviously far exceeds that of your own at this point. It would seem that you have chosen to use this discussion as yet another pitiful attempt to discredit me, which, again, you have failed miserably at this point to do.
Each time you open your mouth you further prove my initial observation that, at least as far as BaGuaZhang is concerned, your level of understanding quite obviously remains at what can only be described as a clearly rudimentary and elementary level. Keep practicing, my friend..lol.

[SPJ]

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab254/buffersfluffer/908549691.jpg

which is easier to hold on to

your sword/weapon

or your wimmen

maybe neither

:D

[Lucas]

they were made for each other...

[uki]

My opinions are not solely based on what a handful of very accomplished martial artists have told me personally (namely Richard Wu, William Lee, and Erle Montaigue), but on my own experiential knowledge which obviously far exceeds that of your own at this point. It would seem that you have chosen to use this discussion as yet another pitiful attempt to discredit me, which, again, you have failed miserably at this point to do.
Each time you open your mouth you further prove my initial observation that, at least as far as BaGuaZhang is concerned, your level of understanding quite obviously remains at what can only be described as a clearly rudimentary and elementary level. Keep practicing, my friend..lol.wow. talk about being infantile. :rolleyes:

[dimethylsea]

Scott..your so-called observations couldn't be further from the truth. You are clearly speaking from a novice's point of view when it comes to the Chinese internal martial arts, and more specifically, BaGuaZhang. The simple fact alone that you do not recognize the natural order and movement inherent in correct BaGuaZhang practice, as well as how the seemingly (at least in the eyes of an obvious novice) "unnatural" movements return us to our natural state (thus developing and releasing pure, natural, latent power), unquestionably demonstrates your complete and total lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject-matter at hand. My opinions are not solely based on what a handful of very accomplished martial artists have told me personally (namely Richard Wu, William Lee, and Erle Montaigue), but on my own experiential knowledge which obviously far exceeds that of your own at this point. It would seem that you have chosen to use this discussion as yet another pitiful attempt to discredit me, which, again, you have failed miserably at this point to do.
Each time you open your mouth you further prove my initial observation that, at least as far as BaGuaZhang is concerned, your level of understanding quite obviously remains at what can only be described as a clearly rudimentary and elementary level. Keep practicing, my friend..lol.

Every time you go off like this you sound like a frog croaking about in the bottom of a well.

Please stop always thinking you are right. It is a hindrance. Get in the habit of assuming you are wrong. It will help you ALOT.

[uki]

Every time you go off like this you sound like a frog croaking about in the bottom of a well.maybe he likes to hear the echo...


Please stop always thinking you are right. It is a hindrance. Get in the habit of assuming you are wrong. It will help you ALOT.meh... let him alone... it's nice to see people makes a$$es out of themselves. :D

[BGZ BadBoy]

Why would I assume I am wrong about that which I know to be true? I am always open to the possibility of my being incorrect..it doesn't happen often though, I will tell you..lol. However, when it comes to the aforementioned subject, that possibility simply doesn't exist, so any assumptions to the contrary on my part would simply be unfounded and irrelevant at even absolute best. Considering this, please allow me to indulge you if I may..Croak croak croak croak croak croak..lol.

[uki]

Croak croak croak croak croak croak..once while walking the appalachian trail, i did a 23 mile day with no water - there was a drought in virginia that year and every spring from point A to point B of that particular day was bone dry except at the shelter when i finally made it there... once there, i went to the spring and this frog jumped in and made all the water dirty, so not wanting to drink muddy water i waited until it cleared - went back and the frog jumped in again... repeated this process 3 times until finally when that annoying little frog climbed out again i whacked him with my walking stick, cut off his legs, fried them up, and ate them with ramen noodles and instant mashed potatoes... oh and then i had a hearty drink from the clean spring because there was no more annoying little amphibian stirring up the mud. :D

[David Jamieson]

Could we please stop reposting the engagement photos of shamu and his mate?

thanks.

:p

[goju]

which is easier to hold on to

your sword/weapon

or your wimmen

maybe neither

:D


STOP BUMPING THAT!!!!!!!:mad:

[SPJ]

http://stickmanstudios.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/star-trek-sulus-fencing.png?w=650&h=650

[SPJ]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Dinkus_Mayhem/Fantasy/vau_swordsman.jpg

[TenTigers]

cool pic, SPJ, got a link?

[TenTigers]

y'know, you guys are so into jumping on BGZBB that when he does say something that is spot on, you don't recognize it.
I guess you can say,"serves ya right for fronting in the beginning.."
however, I think we are all grown-ups here and should be able to recognize when something said, whether we like the source or not, is still valid.

[BGZ BadBoy]

TenTigers..Xiexie ni wo de hao xiansheng.

[Scott R. Brown]

Again I would have to point out.. it's been a LONG time since I was doing this primarily to prevail in fights.

I don't want to be the "chest-beater" that Tyson is.. but seriously.. to get really threatened I would have to go *looking* for someone (like a sport fighter or a senior martial artist from another style) or else seek out a violent street altercation.

When people talk about the "usefulness" of circle walking for fighting I usually ask them..
"Did you stop sleeping with your wife after you no longer wanted more children?"

If you didn't.. why.. what was the point?

Anyone with any emotional intelligence would look at that question like it was inane... and rightly so.

There is way more involved in circle walking that just being a spiralling circling combat nightmare.

Walking a circle is fine if a person wants to use their time doing so, however it is not "directly" applicable to fighting, it is NOT a NATURAL movement and any benefits it provides can be acquired much more easily and quickly by using more direct methods.

For example, the "twisting of the torso as used in a foot sweep", practicing foot sweeps directly as a kata and with a partner is much more effective and practical, albeit less pretty and mysterious! Although ashi-waza has rather limited uses and the nage risks going to the floor with the opponent. This is fine for people who enjoy grappling, but not for others. Such twisting of the torso IS unnatural and unsafe.

Do you want to fight or look pretty! If you want to look pretty and have fun, I have no problem with that, but that does not make Bagua movements practical or natural movements as Tyson declares.


Scott..your so-called observations couldn't be further from the truth. You are clearly speaking from a novice's point of view when it comes to the Chinese internal martial arts, and more specifically, BaGuaZhang. The simple fact alone that you do not recognize the natural order and movement inherent in correct BaGuaZhang practice, as well as how the seemingly (at least in the eyes of an obvious novice) "unnatural" movements return us to our natural state (thus developing and releasing pure, natural, latent power), unquestionably demonstrates your complete and total lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject-matter at hand. My opinions are not solely based on what a handful of very accomplished martial artists have told me personally (namely Richard Wu, William Lee, and Erle Montaigue), but on my own experiential knowledge which obviously far exceeds that of your own at this point. It would seem that you have chosen to use this discussion as yet another pitiful attempt to discredit me, which, again, you have failed miserably at this point to do.
Each time you open your mouth you further prove my initial observation that, at least as far as BaGuaZhang is concerned, your level of understanding quite obviously remains at what can only be described as a clearly rudimentary and elementary level. Keep practicing, my friend..lol.


Very nice Tyson, you can insult, but not reason! You certainly have mastered childishness, but not much else!

Anyone can insult, even I am pretty good at it…..but insulting does NOT defend your opinion! If you are going to insult at least attempt to defend your opinion with “something”! We know you can insult, but you cannot explain yourself! Where is all this wisdom and insight you pretend to have?

You made a statement that Bagua practices NATURAL movements, yet have not presented ONE instance of it. Saying it is so, and hearing it from your favorite instructors does not make it so.

You will notice that I not only made my original statement that Bagua and other internal arts DO NOT practice as natural a movements as they pretend, I also “explained” myself in some detail! When I was pressed/asked to support my view, I explained what I meant using examples of how and why by using comparison.

Give reason a try and you won’t just present yourself as a 2 year old, but as an adult who thinks before he speaks.

[taai gihk yahn]

TenTigers..Xiexie ni wo de hao xiansheng.

Sahp fu sifu msihk gok yiu, keuih sihk guandung wah!

[Scott R. Brown]

Sahp fu sifu msihk gok yiu, keuih sihk guandung wah!

Which translates as:

"The fly in your antelope soup makes the elephant puke!"

[TenTigers]

Sahp fu sifu msihk gok yiu, keuih sihk guandung wah!
Hai waw...danhai ngoh-ge to-dai sik gong potuong-wah!
Ngoh da deen-wah bei coi.



(forgot to add,"bei.")

[TenTigers]

Which translates as:

"The fly in your antelope soup makes the elephant puke!"
great..I thought it said, "The flagon with the Dragon has the brew that is true."

[Scott R. Brown]

Hai waw...danhai ngoh-ge to-dai sik gong potuong-wah!
Ngoh da deen-wah coi.

If you kept your antelope soup out of my elephant house, the flies would not come and the elephant would not puke!

[uki]

Walking a circle is fine if a person wants to use their time doing so, however it is not "directly" applicable to fighting, it is NOT a NATURAL movement and any benefits it provides can be acquired much more easily and quickly by using more direct methods. yet to a newborn baby, walking is not a natural ability either. :p

[Scott R. Brown]

great..I thought it said, "The flagon with the Dragon has the brew that is true."

Yes that is a common mistranslation!

"The flagon with the Dragon has the brew that is true." is:

"Sahp fu sifu msihk gok yiu, keuih sihk guandung wah nihao kailan!"

[Scott R. Brown]

yet to a newborn baby, walking is not a natural ability either. :p

Each action to its time. A baby cries and poops, in time it crawls and then walks and then runs. It does not walk in circles while twisting unnaturally.

There is rarely any NATURAL need in daily life for people to walk in a circle while twisting their body in an awkward and unnatural manner! It is merely an affectation. Albeit pretty to watch when done well.

And please remember, I am not actually directly criticizing Bagua, only Tyson's ignorance that he passes off as superior, insightful wisdom.

[uki]

It does not walk in circles while twisting unnaturally. yet most of them have the uncanny knack for spinning in circles to get dizzy... resurfacing genetic memories??


There is rarely any NATURAL need in daily life for people to walk in a circle while twisting their body in an awkward and unnatural manner! It is merely an affectation. Albeit pretty to watch when done well. why learn to juggle then? or to be a contortionist? why learn to jump real high? why practice anything that we wouldn't naturally do??


And please remember, I am not actually directly criticizing Bagua, only Tyson's ignorance that he passes off as superior, insightful wisdomof course, and i thank you for allowing me to further utilize your post to ensure an even greater method of transmitting wisdom and knowledge. :p

[BGZ BadBoy]

Scott, Zhu bu xiangxin cunzai de zhenzhu.

[TenTigers]

There is rarely any NATURAL need in daily life for people to walk in a circle while twisting their body in an awkward and unnatural manner! It is merely an affectation. Albeit pretty to watch when done well.


My daughter left her bicycle on the front lawn.
I Told her to get her stuff off the lawn, immediately,
and as I turned the corner to go into the back yard,
I turned my body and said, "-and none of your backtalk, Young Lady!"
I was in the exact posture of, "Wild Goose Leaves the Flock," from Chiang Jung- Chiao's BaGua.
I remember it well.....(sigh) they grow up so fast....

[Scott R. Brown]

yet most of them have the uncanny knack for spinning in circles to get dizzy... resurfacing genetic memories??
why learn to juggle then? or to be a contortionist? why learn to jump real high? why practice anything that we wouldn't naturally do??

Ha, I saw that one coming....I have your number uki......!:D

Spinning in circles is called play.....walking crawling and running are practical movements used for a purpose. Play, by definition, has no practical purpose, we do it because it is FUN!!

And this is my point. If a person finds Bagua fun, then do it. If someone wants to think it has all kinds of mysterious and cosmic hidden meanings in the movements that is FUN, that is NOT practical. If you want to get good at doing foot sweeps, practice foot sweeps, NOT walking in circles.

However, if walking in circles is FUN and you like the mystery or beauty of it, that is GREAT! You can even PRETEND it is a NATURAL MOVEMENT. But walking in a circle while twisting your torso in the opposite direction, it is NOT a NATURALLY occurring action, it is an affectation!:)

And it does place shearing force to the spine that can be dangerous under forceful, resisting conditions!



of course, and i thank you for allowing me to further utilize your post to ensure an even greater method of transmitting wisdom and knowledge. :p

Always a pleasure to hear from someone with REAL insight rather than a wannbe pretending to be something he is not!:D

[TenTigers]

yet most of them have the uncanny knack for spinning in circles to get dizzy... resurfacing genetic memories??

I remember reading a book in the seventies (around the same time I read Carlos Casteneada's books...so you get where I was coming from..) and it said that children spin around until they get dizzy. It is a natural occurrance. Man seeks to achieve alternate forms of conciousness.

[TenTigers]

..might've been "The Natural Mind" by Andrew Weil..?

[Scott R. Brown]

My daughter left her bicycle on the front lawn.
I Told her to get her stuff off the lawn, immediately,
and as I turned the corner to go into the back yard,
I turned my body and said, "-and none of your backtalk, Young Lady!"
I was in the exact posture of, "Wild Goose Leaves the Flock," from Chiang Jung- Chiao's BaGua.
I remember it well.....(sigh) they grow up so fast....

:p

Yes, There are also yoga postures and dance moves that twist the spine.

But you were not fighting and you did not NEED to do so! Try doing the same movement while carrying a 50lb load and you risk injuring your back. Do the same thing while trying to move a resistant 200+ lb man while walking in a circle, and good luck to you!

Please refer to my previous post describing efficient use of energy and body movement in order to produce a specific result. i.e. the crawl stroke in comparison to the dog paddle. Beginners dog paddle which is probably the MOST inefficient stroke one can do, it wastes energy even though it is a spontaneous reaction to an unfamiliar circumstance.

Circle walking with an outward torquing twist as a natural occurring action compared to direct practice of foot sweeps. Which one is a MORE natural movement?

[TenTigers]

:p


But you were not fighting and you did not NEED to do so!

you haven't met my kids.

[Scott R. Brown]

you haven't met my kids.

LOL!! That is a parenting issue then!:)

Now THIS would be a very good example of WHEN circle walking would provide a decided benefit!

When the children misbehave, have them circle walk!:D

Tell them it is either that or sitting in a corner!:)

[BGZ BadBoy]

Scott simply has a personal vendetta he's trying to resolve. If I said the sky were blue, he'd walk outside, see the storm-cloud looming, and argue that the sky is indeed not blue (then he would demand evidence and label me a fraud..lol).

[Scott R. Brown]

Scott simply has a personal vendetta he's trying to resolve. If I said the sky were blue, he'd walk outside, see the storm-cloud looming, and argue that the sky is indeed not blue (then he would demand evidence and label me a fraud..lol).

Still avoiding using reason to make your point I see!

I am swooning from all your insight! :rolleyes:

Thank you for descending from Asgard in order to share your useless comments!

[SPJ]

Sahp fu sifu msihk gok yiu, keuih sihk guandung wah!

does not know mandarin

he knows cantonese

--

[BGZ BadBoy]

From Tim Cartmell's Shen Wu Martial Arts: An Introduction to BaGuaZhang..and I quote:

"In order to create whole body power in the Ba Gua Zhang format, as well as to facilitate the agile and evasive footwork utilized in the Art, all styles of Ba Gua Zhang emphasize complete physical relaxation, correct skeletal alignment, natural movements which are in harmony with the body's inborn reflexes and inherent design and that all movements are directed by the intent."

Perhaps you would like to read the article in it's entirety:
http://www.shenwu.com/bagua.htm

Of course, I suppose Tim has absolutely no idea what he's talking about either..lol. Please, Scott, enlighten us..is ignorance truly bliss?

[SPJ]

Hai waw...danhai ngoh-ge to-dai sik gong potuong-wah!
Ngoh da deen-wah coi.

but my disciple knows to speak mandarin.

I will call him up (telephone him).

[TenTigers]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Dinkus_Mayhem/Fantasy/vau_swordsman.jpg

where did you find this? Are there others?

[Lokhopkuen]

It's funny I hear Tim isn't even teaching Chinese Martial Arts but instead a Shuai jiao/ Jiujitsu hybrid.




From Tim Cartmell's Shen Wu Martial Arts: An Introduction to BaGuaZhang..and I quote:

"In order to create whole body power in the Ba Gua Zhang format, as well as to facilitate the agile and evasive footwork utilized in the Art, all styles of Ba Gua Zhang emphasize complete physical relaxation, correct skeletal alignment, natural movements which are in harmony with the body's inborn reflexes and inherent design and that all movements are directed by the intent."

Perhaps you would like to read the article in it's entirety for yourself:
http://www.shenwu.com/bagua.htm

Of course, I suppose Tim has absolutely no idea what he's talking about either..lol. Please, Scott, enlighten us..is ignorance truly bliss?

[Scott R. Brown]

From Tim Cartmell's Shen Wu Martial Arts: An Introduction to BaGuaZhang..and I quote:

"In order to create whole body power in the Ba Gua Zhang format, as well as to facilitate the agile and evasive footwork utilized in the Art, all styles of Ba Gua Zhang emphasize complete physical relaxation, correct skeletal alignment, natural movements which are in harmony with the body's inborn reflexes and inherent design and that all movements are directed by the intent."

Perhaps you would like to read the article in it's entirety for yourself:
http://www.shenwu.com/bagua.htm

Of course, I suppose Tim has absolutely no idea what he's talking about either..lol. Please, Scott, enlighten us..is ignorance truly bliss?

That is a quote from someone else....an author who you respect, which does not make his comments true. For something to be true the author must demonstrate it to be true not just state it is true. Neither does blindly repeating a traditional view make something automatically true.

Try showing some of your insight and wisdom by stating something for yourself and then defending that comment with supporting evidence. This is a demonstration of insight, NOT blindly quoting something you may or may not fully understand!

Start by demonstrating how walking in a circle and twisting the spine in an unnatural and dangerous manner is "natural movements which are in harmony with the body's inborn reflexes and inherent design"!

BTW I am not saying NOTHING taught in Tai Chi and Bagua, etc are natural movements, just that they are exaggerating their claims. Tucking your anus and sinking the chest are also not natural movements!

[Lokhopkuen]

So uh anyway, Who is the Bad Boy of KFM? Do we have a consensus?

[Scott R. Brown]

So uh anyway, Who is the Bad Boy of KFM? Do we have a consensus?

It's David Ross, anyone else is just a pretender. Just because David has been scarce lately does not mean his place has been usurped!

[BGZ BadBoy]

Scott..in case you missed it the first time:
"Zhu bu xiangxin cunzai de zhenzhu"
Roughly translated: "Pigs do not believe there is a pearl"..lol.

[Scott R. Brown]

Scott..in case you missed it the first time:
"Zhu bu xiangxin cunzai de zhenzhu"
Roughly translated: "Pigs do not believe there is a pearl"..lol.

This is true, but also "fools see diamonds in the stars!"

You are the one who made claims based upon traditional platitudes, yet you have failed to support your claims in any meaningful way.

While others have challenged my views with thoughtful responses, which I have responded to with equal thoughtfulness, you have not done so in any way other than repeating platitudes and offering insults.

It is true that I offer insults as well, but I have also offered comments that demonstrate thoughtful consideration of the topic and have provided unique explanations of my position and not the old, tired repetition of traditional "empty statements" that provide no reasonable support. Which is what you have done. What I have done is called "thoughtful insight", what you have done is called, "blindly following" others using "empty repetition" of what you clearly do not understand.

If something is a truth it may be demonstrated to be true! Please demonstrate the truth of your view. Defend your view using reason, not platitudes that merely dismiss disagreement as not worthy of responding to, and nothing more. Otherwise all you are is a blind follower having no insight of your own as you have claimed you possess.

You have stated that you come onto the this board when you want to share your wisdom and insights. You have yet to do so in any meaningful manner.

I have demonstrated a willingness to engage in meaningful discussion with those who participate in a meaningful way. You have not participated in any meaning way yet!

If you wish to be taken seriously then try thinking through your view and explaining it in a meaningful manner using descriptions and metaphors that are unique to your way of viewing the topic. Think for yourself and avoid using the words of others, except as support for your already presented argument!

Good luck!!!!:)

[BGZ BadBoy]

I have clearly stated my position, which is undeniable, unequivocal fact. I have supported that argument with verifiable evidence from an established expert in the field, and still, you continue to argue what you clearly do not understand. Again, your personal vendetta is obvious to anyone reading this thread. regardless of the evidence I present, or how effortlessly I make you to look the fool in the process, you will continue to deny established fact as though you posses some rare insight that separates your opinion from that of the individuals who actually practice these arts.
Considering this, I will produce still more expert testimony from Tim Cartmell (someone who's knowledge and experience far exceeds your own, I promise you). Tim has studied with some of the most respected Chinese internal martial arts masters and experts on the planet..if you stubbornly insist on refusing to take his testimony into serious account, then honestly, there is little hope for you. This time, Tim discusses Tai Chi (which you have likewise brought into question)..and again, I quote:

"Another hallmark of Tai Ji Quan as a combat art is that it has, as its foundation, the principle of natural movement. All the movements and techniques of the Tai Ji Quan Arts are based upon natural strengths and reactions. Because training is less a matter of conditioning new responses as refining inborn abilities, real fighting ability can be cultivated in the Tai Ji Quan arts faster than most other styles of martial arts. The diligent student of Tai Ji Quan, properly trained, will have acquired real self defense ability in a matter of months, as opposed to the years of training required in many other martial systems."

Must we continue this charade of ignorance which you seem so determined to hopelessly cling to despite all evidence provided to the contrary? I think it's the source as opposed to the evidence you so vehemently oppose, my friend..lol.

[Scott R. Brown]

LOL!!!!! You are a dimwit......repeating what experts, in your own mind, say is NOT unequivocal fact!!!

You know what you know, but you do not know why you know it. All you have done is blindly follow others you consider to be experts, but may or may not be. If they are experts, that does not make whatever they say true or factual or unequivocal.

If you truly have any insight into the matter at all, you would be able to describe and demonstrate the truth of your view without having to rely on others.

Things are true for a reason. You are not using reason or demonstrating wisdom or insight.

These require independent thought, something you have yet to display!

[Scott R. Brown]

Start by picking just ONE thing and demonstrate it to be a natural movement and show how it translates into being an advantage in a fight.

1) Suspending the head? Good posture when sitting, meditating, or standing. Poor practice when fighting. It exposes the throat and chin to attack. Tuck the chin and lift the shoulder to protect the chin and throat.

2) Tuck the anus? May have some magical Chi circulation effects, or not! When fighting, it very effectively places the spine in an unnatural position and presents the groin to your opponent saying, "Please kick my balls for me, I want to lose this fight!" Reduces power when striking.

3) Circle walking while twisting the torso outward? Already talked about that ad nauseam! Very impractical and dangerous to the spine!

4) Sinking the chest? Reduces oxygen consumption and greatly reduces power! May have some benefit under very specific circumstances when taking a blow to the chest, if timed correctly, otherwise a foolish practice that will increase thoracic damage!

See how easy that is?

I have not yet pointed out that:

"Nowhere will you ever find any REAL fighter, professional or combat that will tuck his anus, sink his chest, suspend his head, or walk in a circle while twisting his torso outward during a REAL fight!"

This is common knowledge, but I chose to demonstrate my points through reason and unique descriptions.

[Scott R. Brown]

"Another hallmark of Tai Ji Quan as a combat art is that it has, as its foundation, the principle of natural movement. All the movements and techniques of the Tai Ji Quan Arts are based upon natural strengths and reactions. Because training is less a matter of conditioning new responses as refining inborn abilities, real fighting ability can be cultivated in the Tai Ji Quan arts faster than most other styles of martial arts. The diligent student of Tai Ji Quan, properly trained, will have acquired real self defense ability in a matter of months, as opposed to the years of training required in many other martial systems."

Saying it as a traditional platitude and demonstrating its truth are two different things. All he has done is demonstrate he buys into the traditional story.

Name ONE verifiable instance of anyone winning a REAL fight against a well trained and aggressive opponent using Tai Chi, much less as a beginnner.

I'll put my money on a boxer or even a beginner in grappling every time over anyone who only uses Tai Chi.

[BGZ BadBoy]

FYI, Scott, Tim Cartmell was the all Southeast Asian full contact champion and holds an impressive full contact, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and MMA fighting record. He currently works as the head Brazilian Jiu Jitsu instructor and MMA coach at the Ace Jiu Jitsu Academy. Your claim that "all he has done is demonstrate he buys into the traditional story" is a surprisingly idiotic statement at even absolute best. On the contrary, Tim has clearly demonstrated, in practical application, everything he claims when it comes to Chinese internal martial arts. A little research on your part would easily produce this information.
Try reading Tim's book "Effortless Combat Throws"..the first several chapters are devoted exclusively to the very internal martial arts principles which you have so quickly and foolishly dismissed as being nonsensical and even "dangerous" practices.
Of course, you'll continue to simply ignore the facts in a vain attempt to steer the conversation into another direction for lack of evidence to support your ridiculously uneducated and inane position.
For the purposes of your futher enlightenment and education, I have included an excerpt from an interview with Tim Cartmell which was taken from the Wu Gong Journal, May-June 1998,vol. 3, #15 regarding his Tai Chi training:

"In Taiwan, I studied Xing Yi Quan with Xu Hong Ji and later with his son Xu Zhen Wang. I studied Old style Yang Tai Ji Quan and Xu Xi Dao (an esoteric Crane style) with Chen Zhuo Zhen. My next Tai Ji Quan teacher was Lin Ah Long, who taught me the Yang and Chen Zhao Bao styles. I studied Yi Quan and the Internal styles with Gao Liu De. I studied the Old Frame of the Chen style with Xu Fu Jin. I studied Gao style Ba Gua Zhang and Chen Pan Ling style Tai Ji Quan with Luo De Xiu. In mainland China, I studied He Bei style Xing Yi Quan with Liang Ke Quan. I studied Sun style Ba Gua Zhang and Tai Ji Quan with Sun Jian Yun, Sun Bao An and Liu Yan Long. I studied Shan Xi Xing Yi with Mao Ming Chun."

"Saying it as a traditional platitude and demonstrating its truth are two different things." I would say its truth has been more than sufficiently demonstrated, bonehead.

[Eddie]

you are confusing the arts Badboy. When Tim Cartmell fights BJJ, im sure he uses whatever skill he has to beat his oponents. Just because he also studied Taiji, doesnt mean he actually use his taiji skill. If you look at a fighter, they use general fighting methods to win, nothing fancy.

How do one figure out which skill you are using in a fight if you have studied mulitple arts?

The different arts can all help to add something to your skill in their own small way, but thats about it

[BGZ BadBoy]

I'm not confusing anything. You don't think he applied the same Tai Chi principles he so faithfully espouses when he became the all Southeast Asian full contact champion? Tim clearly demonstrated the validity of the very principles Scott so ignorantly and prematurely dismisses. Perhaps you misunderstood the post or have failed to read the entire thread. Peace.

[Scott R. Brown]

FYI, Scott, Tim Cartmell was the all Southeast Asian full contact champion and holds an impressive full contact, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and MMA fighting record........

For the purposes of your futher enlightenment and education, I have included an excerpt from an interview with Tim Cartmell which was taken from the Wu Gong Journal, May-June 1998,vol. 3, #15 regarding his Tai Chi training:


I'm not confusing anything. You don't think he applied the same Tai Chi principles he so faithfully espouses when he became the all Southeast Asian full contact champion?

No Tyson, I do not ignore facts. You are the one living in marital arts fantasyland here!

Using Tai Chi or Bagua principles is NOT the same thing as using their body structure. I have never disagreed with Tai Chi or Bagua's foundational principles, only the fantasyland structural components.

Please point me to ANYTHING where Cartmell "specifically" mentions which principles of Bagua and Tai Chi he has used during his professional fights and under what circumstances. THAT would be interesting to learn and understand!

Please point me to ANYTHING where Cartmell "specifically" states what physical aspects of Tai Chi or Bagua he uses to train for his professional fights and how they better prepare him for his fights than the methods other fighters use!

Then, while you are wasting your time trying to use Cartmell as an example please show me where he uses the NATURAL movements of circle walking, lifting the crown, tucking the anus or sinking the chest actions is his professional fights!

You are still avoiding directly addressing those components whose efficiency and safety I have brought into question.

At no point have you even quoted anything your "experts" have said that actually demonstrates the "natural" characteristics and benefits of any of these components.

In fact all you can do is quote other people when you have stated previously you wanted to bless us all with your knowledge and insight!

Since Cartmell is your hero, please post a video of him using Tai Chi structural components, or Bagua I am not picky, effectively in his professional fights and explain in what manner, and why, they were superior to what others use!

Actually, I think using a gun is the best, most efficient method of defending oneself. It is much easier to learn to use, it erases the tough guy attitudes from wimps like you, and all those years of martial arts training REAL tough guys trained in a moment of time!

If Cartmell thinks Tai Chi and Bagua and Hsing I better prepare a person for fighting, why is he teaching grappling arts?

So far you still have done nothing or said anything that demonstrates any unique insight or wisdom pertaining to anything at all.

You have not addressed any of my points directly other than point to quotes you do not understand made by people you think know what they are talking about, yet have not posted any comments they have made that demonstrate my point of view to be incorrect.

In short all you have been able to say is, "Scott is wrong because Tim Cartmell teaches something completely different", which is no demonstration of fact, only OPINION!

Once again, for your little pea brain.......

If something is a fact, if it is unequivocally true, it is true for a reason and that reason may be demonstrated! If you cannot demonstrate why it is true, you do not understand the principle very well. If you cannot demonstrate why it is true, you have NO INSIGHT into that principle. If you cannot demonstrate why it is true, FOR YOURSELF WITHOUT HELP FROM OTHERS, all you are is an ignorant sheep blindly following authority and may be easily manipulated by those whom you blindly trust!

Now.....once again......try demonstrating, through argument or example:

1) How "lifting the crown" is a more effective and efficient manner of fighting!

2) How "sinking the chest" provides one with better fighting skills!

3) How "circle walking" and twisting the torso in an abnormal manner, will make one a better fighter!

4) How "Lifting the anus" or bringing it forward, makes one a better fighter and does not reduce power!

Don't make it hard on your little brain, just pick one! Then when you are done, please explain why NO FIGHTER does ANY of these in their professional fights. Certainly if any of these methods made one a better fighter someone would have realized this in the past 4,000 years and would be winning fights everywhere. Especially since thousands if not millions of dollars are to be made winning fights!

Oh yeah, and which grappling school does any of these please?

[Scott R. Brown]

Oh Yeah...

.....one more thing.......

....you have yet to demonstrate how 1, 2, 3, or 4 are NATURAL movements.....which is my primary argument here!

After you have demonstrated how they are NATURAL movements, THEN you can move on to how they are superior to other body structure methods taught and used by REAL fighters and which presumably you consider to be UNNATURAL movements!

[omarthefish]

Please point me to ANYTHING where Cartmell "specifically" mentions which principles of Bagua and Tai Chi he has used during his professional fights and under what circumstances. THAT would be interesting to learn and understand!

He actually has several books out on the subject. If your too cheap to buy one of his book, you could visit his message board. He has addressed these topics on numerous occasions. He's on record as saying that BJJ is no different from Taijiquan except that it is on the ground.


Please point me to ANYTHING where Cartmell "specifically" states what physical aspects of Tai Chi or Bagua he uses to train for his professional fights and how they better prepare him for his fights than the methods other fighters use!
I reccomnd his book "Effortless Combat Throws" for specific examples. He is well feared on the BJJ circuit for his throws. In most footage I have seen, people tend to attempt to pull guard as quickly as possible with him because his throws are so superior to what is typically seen on the BJJ circuit but his throwing training comes primarily from Bagua via. Luo De Xiu.


Then, while you are wasting your time trying to use Cartmell as an example please show me where he uses the NATURAL movements of circle walking, lifting the crown, tucking the anus or sinking the chest actions is his professional fights!
Again, there is no shortage of clips of him demonstating these exact principles. Just search youtube or shenwu.com or purchase one of his instructional videos.


If Cartmell thinks Tai Chi and Bagua and Hsing I better prepare a person for fighting, why is he teaching grappling arts?
I'm not aware of him ever saying any such thing. From conversations with his students over at Shenwu, it seems pretty clear that his entire standup game is based directly on the 3 internal arts he learned in Taiwan. However, as none of those three offer and well rounded curriculum of groundfighint, he went out and supplemented it with BJJ. He uses BJJ for the ground and a combination of Xingyi, Bagua and Taiji for his standup game.

[BGZ BadBoy]

Oh Enlightened One,
I have answered every question you have put to me, directly. I have supported my argument with verifiable evidence and expert testimony, and have even gone so far as to provide reference and source material for you to further investigate everything that I have so effortlessly and completely dismissed your entire, uneducated argument with. You, on the other hand, have not provided so much as a single piece of supporting evidence, no experiential knowledge of any kind, no expert testimony in support of your ludicrous position, and have, quite effectively, locked yourself into a logic which is circular and self-defeating by its very nature. Face facts..your personal vendetta against me has completely blinded you to any truth whatsoever outside of your own blatantly ignorant and moronic sense of reality. In any court of law, I would have already won my case hands-down, while you were still arguing pomp and circumstance without any evidence or experiential knowledge to back it up. You can't handle the fact that I know exactly what I'm talking about..you're just an ignorant moron who has absolutely no experience or evidence to draw on to support your position..clearly none whatsoever.
You're a sad, sad man, Scott. Honestly, far more pathetic than even I could have originally imagined. While nearly everyone else on this forum has supported my statements in spite of their dislike for me personally, you continue to insist that yours is the only informed and educated position..and what do you base this enlightened position on? Absolutely nothing except your own uneducated, narcissistic opinion.
You have unwittingly made my case for me..and quite effectively I might add. You clearly won't take anything I have to say as truth, and when faced with the truth from anyone else, you simply deny that too. Apparently, you have the answers that everyone else, including many very accomplished Chinese internal martial artists, have somehow unfortunately managed to completely miss out on. Good for you. Now, do yourself a huge favor..go play with something non-toxic and leave the Chinese martial arts to those who actually have a clue, mmmkay?
From now on I'm going to refer to you simply as "The Enlightened One"..lol.

[uki]

Btw, if you ever were stupid enough to pull a gun on me (or any other weapon you mistakenly think is going to even the odds for that matter), you'd better hope half of it's chocolate and half of it's Vaseline (I'll leave you to figure out exactly why).have ever had a gun pulled on you or put do your head?? are you speaking from experience?? how can you be so sure you wouldn't clam up with fear - stuck frozen like a deer in the headlights?? LOL :rolleyes:

[Scott R. Brown]

So many tough guys with so little brains. Tyson, you have not answered even one of my questions, so keep living in your fantasyland.

Omar,

thank you for the post. I will look into the information you have posted. Saying he uses it is not the same thing as actually using it. I took aikido for years. I use the principles all the time and even teach them when i do teach. But i do not use the techniques as they are exactly taught in the schools because real life is not pretend class techniques.

i am not talking about the principles of Tai Chi or Bagua.Tyson claimed Bagua and Tai Chi follow natural movements of the body. I contend that they are not all that natural.

Tucking in/lifting the anus, withdrawing the chest, circle walking while twisting awkwardly are NOT natural movements and are not effective in making one a better fighter. I have not said that NO techniques are valuable. There is large part of these arts that are from fantasyland just as they are in many other arts.

Throws all follow the same principles PERIOD. Whether i say my throws come from Bagua, shiu jiao (sp?), judo, jujitus, aikido etc. it doesnt matter they all follow the same principles.

striking and kicking are striking and kicking. the power generated is the same for every person doing the same kicks and the same strikes. the body moves the same for all of the different movements in martial arts.

I want to know how circle walking while doing an outward twisting motion or suspending the head or sinking the chest or lifting the anus, which tyson claims are all natural movements and i do not are natural movements and how they make one a better fighter and if they do make one a better fighter why no professional fighters waste their time on these practices.

One person however skilled, does not count, unless he is the best the world has ever seen. the best anyone can say from this guy you and tyson have mentioned is that the many principles and techniques are universal.

But what about the so called natural movements that are neither natural nor effective? they are a waste of time to practice unless it can be demonstrate the the profit/loss ratio of the time and effort spent on them pays off bigger dividends than other PROVEN training methods.

[bawang]

i think im a kung fu bad boy. every day i wake up i pray to guan yu for death of my enemyes, and vow to avenge the boxer robels. then i do a sun moon salute to the sky. i read the poem "destroy demons spare the righteous" by hong xiuquan then repeat silently "fan qing fu ming" three times, then shed a single tear down my left cheek. then i have breakfast



Tucking in/lifting the anus
lol anus anus anus

[David Jamieson]

i think im a kung fu bad boy. every day i wake up i pray to guan yu for death of my enemyes, and vow to avenge the boxer robels. then i do a sun moon salute to the sky. i read the poem "destroy demons spare the righteous" by hong xiuquan then repeat silently "fan qing fu ming" three times, then shed a single tear down my left cheek. then i have breakfast


lol anus anus anus

what about after breakfast though?

no more recitations and you have to actually go about with all the vengeance stuff. The actual deeds of avenging! that's the hard part. Oh sure, we can talk about our suffering but what do we do to alleviate it? :)

p.s yes, I would say it's Ross as well. He has that acerbic and acidic quality and yet frequently understands the subject matter.

[Scott R. Brown]

i was referring to david in a complimentary way. he doesnt take crap, tells it like it is as he sees it, and ESPECIALLY knows what he is talking about! that is why he is #1 in my book!

[David Jamieson]

i was referring to david in a complimentary way. he doesnt take crap, tells it like it is as he sees it, and ESPECIALLY knows what he is talking about! that is why he is #1 in my book!


well why don't you just marry the guy already? :p

[SPJ]

i think im a kung fu bad boy. every day i wake up i pray to guan yu for death of my enemyes, and vow to avenge the boxer robels. then i do a sun moon salute to the sky. i read the poem "destroy demons spare the righteous" by hong xiuquan then repeat silently "fan qing fu ming" three times, then shed a single tear down my left cheek. then i have breakfast



hong xiu quan and fang si yu

childhood favorite tales for many

no need to chant "anti qing restoring ming" any more

b/c it is done. qing was no more 99 years ago.

next year will be centenial or 100 year aniversary of the demise of last ai xin jue lou family rule

---

oh bad a s s or bad boy dun cry or shed tears,

or big girl---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2s54WNBwiI&feature=related

:D

[SPJ]

where did you find this? Are there others?

I googled chinese swordsman--

it showed up.

I think it is an image from a computer game

which one I do not know

---

best luck.

:)

[SPJ]

big girl don't cry from bad boy records.

and the controversy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEpr_ocjOe8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqbtIYdATC4&feature=related

--

oops, side tracked

;)

[Scott R. Brown]

well why don't you just marry the guy already? :p

MOMMY!!!! David is picking on me again!!!!:p

[TenTigers]

Men, especially manly men who do manly things with other manly men...have a posture they as$ume, which to them (probably hardwired into our DNA) signifies strength and dominance. That is thrusting out the chest, raising the shoulders, and jutting the chin. The descriptions are simply corrections to the posture.
If you were to attempt to root your stance and locked your back leg, your lower back locks out, and your spine arches, and so up the spine to the head, etc. There cannot be any adjustments to neutralize throws, pushes,strikes, etc as the body is locked up. The body cannot issue complete power as well. It is like driving with the parking brake on.
Tucking the sacrum does not mean walking with your tail between your legs, it means straightening the spine by tucking it slightly. When you suspend the head, the neck is straighter, but the chin should be slightly tucked, and therefore, no, it does not jut out waiting to be hit. Hollowing the chest simply means not expanding it by arching the back.
Taking the postural corrections to an extreme, which many people who do not have good teachers to guide them do, creates these exagerrated postures. It is simply misunderstanding.

[Scott R. Brown]

Thank you TenTigers!

See Tyson? A reasonable explanation! I may not agree with all of them, but well said none the less!! It is an execellent attempt to answer my questions!

:)

[David Jamieson]

MOMMY!!!! David is picking on me again!!!!:p


no im not.

I only picked on you once and look where that went! :p

[TenTigers]

no im not.

I only picked on you once and look where that went! :p
what, like a zit...?

[TenTigers]

Thank you TenTigers!

See Tyson? A reasonable explanation! I may not agree with all of them, but well said none the less!! It is an execellent attempt to answer my questions!

:)
ah...don't sweat it Ty. That's only cause he don't like you as much as he does me.
:-p

reminds me of...

Glenda: "I'm afraid you've made a rather bad enemy of the Witch of the West. The sooner you get out of Oz, the safer you'll sleep, my Dear."
but also,
Cowardly Lion: "Stay wit' us Dorothy. We don't want ya ta go."

hey, some people quote Plato or Lao Tzu...I quote The Wizard of Oz, Popeye, and Buggs Bunny

[Eddie]

I'm not confusing anything. You don't think he applied the same Tai Chi principles he so faithfully espouses when he became the all Southeast Asian full contact champion? Tim clearly demonstrated the validity of the very principles Scott so ignorantly and prematurely dismisses. Perhaps you misunderstood the post or have failed to read the entire thread. Peace.

You know what dude, I was hoping to have mature, responsible discussions with you without the usual, typical “you don’t know ****” arguments. Common man. Im 35 years old, if you are not willing to have mature discussions on something you love, you have a bigger problem than I thought.

One of the coaches over at Wuhan sports university, Ma (someone – forgot his name now), has some background in baji. When he coach and when he demonstrates his stuff, he uses normal fighting skill and body structure. The very basic and very usual. He has showed me how he applies his baji skill, but it also just goes as far as optimized body mechanics, and are nothing superior than any other fighting style.

My point is just, there are certain elements to fighting. Those are basic elements, no amount of walking in circles will help you with this. If you don’t practice the basic FIGHTING principles your skill is worth nothing.

[Eddie]

have ever had a gun pulled on you or put do your head?? are you speaking from experience?? how can you be so sure you wouldn't clam up with fear - stuck frozen like a deer in the headlights?? LOL :rolleyes:

Yeah, I used to say the same thing back when I was a kid, until I actually one day stared down the barrel of an AK 47.

Needless to say, I know Im not superman but 15 years later Im still alive because I didn’t do anything stupid.

I think BGZBadboy has yet to have the same experience

[Scott R. Brown]

no im not.

I only picked on you once and look where that went! :p

lol, I'm still looking for it! :D

[Lucas]

everyone talks about what they would do, or how they would react if someone pulled a gun, until the barrel is caressing your temple that is.... things change after that.

same thing with a blade, the first time someone that doesnt like you cuts or stabs you maliciously, your respect and view of blades will often adapt for the better.

personally i would rather confront a gun situation than a knife one. generally a gun is a form of control and power, a means of intimidation to force you down a certain path of action. if they wanted you dead you would be. a knife rarely come into play until its going to actually be used.

[Scott R. Brown]

ah...don't sweat it Ty. That's only cause he don't like you as much as he does me.
:-p

reminds me of...

Glenda: "I'm afraid you've made a rather bad enemy of the Witch of the West. The sooner you get out of Oz, the safer you'll sleep, my Dear."
but also,
Cowardly Lion: "Stay wit' us Dorothy. We don't want ya ta go."

hey, some people quote Plato or Lao Tzu...I quote The Wizard of Oz, Popeye, and Buggs Bunny

Well taai gy and I spend a lot of time quoting Monty Python! So Popeye and Bugs and the Cowardly Lion are all fair game! :)

[BGZ BadBoy]

Enlightened One,
Face facts..you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. You would deny established truth simply to bolster your absurd argument..you've been shown to be wrong, accept it. What I find really good (I mean REALLY tasty) is that it was largely at my hands..lol.
Of course, your opinion, however uneducated and dimwitted it may be, comes from the POV of an Aikido player, and not someone with any actual Chinese IMA experience. That speaks volumes to me. Perhaps I should wax wise when it comes to Aikido..then, when you produce evidence and corroborating testimony to the contrary, I should simply deny it, continue to accuse you of not knowing what you're talking about, and ignore the obvious truth for total and complete lack of understanding.
Good, good stuff Enlightened One, good, good stuff..lol.

[David Jamieson]

Enlightened One,
Face facts..you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. You would deny established truth simply to bolster your absurd argument..you've been shown to be wrong, accept it. What I find really good (I mean REALLY tasty) is that it was largely at my hands..lol.
Of course, your opinion, however uneducated and dimwitted it may be, comes from the POV of an Aikido player, and not someone with any actual Chinese IMA experience. That speaks volumes to me. Perhaps I should wax wise when it comes to Aikido..then, when you produce evidence and corroborating testimony to the contrary, I should simply deny it, continue to accuse you of not knowing what you're talking about, and ignore the obvious truth for total and complete lack of understanding.
Good, good stuff Enlightened One, good, good stuff..lol.

Is that chip on your shoulder ruffled there oh assless one? lol
and really? erle montague? LOL!!!
You're a bigger *** than I thought!

[BGZ BadBoy]

Btw..I agree with Lucas. I would much rather have a gun pulled on me than a knife, and yes, I've faced both.
Either way, if a weapon's pulled, I'm pulling my .40 cal and evening the odds. If I can't get to my gun (I do have a permit to conceal and carry, btw) then I would much rather be staring down the barrel of a .45, so to speak, as opposed to facing cold steel.
In a knife fight, you will get cut..period. At least with a gun you have a certain amount of control (at point-blank range) where the limited trajectory is going to travel.
If I don't personally take the weapon and directly apply the chocolate/Vaseline scenario, I'll make you do it yourself at gunpoint (my first option when facing a weapon).

[David Jamieson]

Btw..I agree with Lucas. I would much rather have a gun pulled on me than a knife, and yes, I've faced both.
Either way, if a weapon's pulled, I'm pulling my .40 cal and evening the odds. If I can't get to my gun (I do have a permit to conceal and carry, btw) then I would much rather be staring down the barrel of a .45, so to speak, as opposed to facing cold steel.
In a knife fight, you will get cut..period. At least with a gun you have a certain amount of control (at point-blank range) where the limited trajectory is going to travel.
If I don't personally take the weapon and directly apply the chocolate/Vaseline scenario, I'll make you do it yourself at gunpoint (my first option when facing a weapon).

you do enjoy talking up a big old pile of brown don't you. :rolleyes:

you are so full of crap tyson

[BGZ BadBoy]

David..apparently, you need to read the thread. Tim Cartmell's information was primarily provided as corroborating evidence (as was his established fight record which clearly backs up his statements regarding Chinese IMA).
On the other hand, If you've got something personal against Erle Montaigue, you really are an ill-informed idiot. He would literally and figuratively rip off your head and take a big, nice ole' greasy dump right down the middle of your scrawny little throat..lol.
Get your facts straight, then feel free to chime in..lol.

[BGZ BadBoy]

David's got his little pink panties all wadded-up in a bunch (seems to be quite a bit of that going on around here lately when it comes to someone who actually knows what they're talking about..lol).

[David Jamieson]

David..apparently, you need to read the thread. Tim Cartmell's information was primarily provided as corroborating evidence (as was his established fight record which clearly back up his statements regarding Chinese IMA).
On the other hand, If you've got something personal against Erle Montaigue, you really are in il--informed idiot. He would literally and figuratively rip off your head and take a big, nice ole' greasy dump right down the middle of your scrawny little throat..lol.
Get your facts straight, then feel free to chime in..lol.

hey assless, you need to understand that I don't care what you have to say or put stock in any of it.

As soon as you affiliated yourself with that hippy loser montaguie and make such irrational claims that he's gonna rip my head off....welll LOL.

I think the only idiot here is you dude. But by all means, keep propping yourself up with other people. bahahahahaha, you fecking loser. Got that fight record yet? Got those ranked fighters posted yet?

stfu loser

[David Jamieson]

Awww..David's got his little pink panties in a bunch..lol.

hey I know, why don't you go write some little messed up diatribe about me in your little blog that no one goes to. :p

then maybe you could write up something and post it to your site under someone elses name that confirms you are a monster!

you're about as scary as an unflushed toilet dude.
To say you're developmentally retarded is being kind.

now, go google some bagua info so you can make like you know something. :rolleyes:

[BGZ BadBoy]

It's much more fun to simply make an idiot out of you here, man (just ask your buddy, The Enlightened One..lol). And checking out my ass, are we? Hmmm..

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's funny I hear Tim isn't even teaching Chinese Martial Arts but instead a Shuai jiao/ Jiujitsu hybrid.

Tim still teaches IMA to who wants to learn that facet of training.

[David Jamieson]

David's got his little pink panties all wadded-up in a bunch (seems to be quite a bit of that going on around here lately when it comes to someone who actually knows what they're talking about..lol).

yeah Scott knows quite a bit of stuff as does tgy.

you on the other hand...lol

i think you know how to use google and spout bullshyte alot. lol

[David Jamieson]

It's much more fun to simply make an idiot out of you here, man (just ask your buddy, The Enlightened One..lol).

keep going, you provide us with plenty of idiocy idiot.
baguaboob lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

David..apparently, you need to read the thread. Tim Cartmell's information was primarily provided as corroborating evidence (as was his established fight record which clearly backs up his statements regarding Chinese IMA).
On the other hand, If you've got something personal against Erle Montaigue, you really are in il--informed idiot. He would literally and figuratively rip off your head and take a big, nice ole' greasy dump right down the middle of your scrawny little throat..lol.
Get your facts straight, then feel free to chime in..lol.

Having spoke to Erle quite a bit in the past, I doubt that he would approve of your behaviour on this forum or your overall attitude and the way you have presented your MA here.

[Dale Dugas]

Tyson,

You have posted peoples information on your site.

If you claim to be a real Shifu, you would do no such thing and give away peoples information that is not yours to give.

Did you get permission to give away Shifu Crandalls info?

Such actions as well as your actions here paint you as not what you claim to be.

[BGZ BadBoy]

For your information, Sanjuro, I speak to Erle on a regular basis. I've already commented on the supposed argument that "he wouldn't approve" in my Blog. Maybe you should try reading it.
Btw..just how long have you known Erle? I've been a member of the WTBA since 1993..I doubt your opinion carries much merit comparatively. Peace.

[BGZ BadBoy]

FYI, Dale, yes, I do have Joseph Crandall's permission (I can forward you the personal e-mail correspondence, if you like). The information I post is done so with full permission. Any other questions?

[sanjuro_ronin]

For your information, Sanjuro, I speak to Erle on a regular basis. I've already commented on the supposed argument that "he wouldn't approve" in my Blog. Maybe you should try reading it.
Btw..just how long have you known Erle? I've been a member of the WTBA since 1993..I doubt your opinion carries much merit comparatively. Peace.

Erle and I spoke and exchanged Emails quite a bit in the past, before he got sick.
We had quite a few discussions on Dim Mak and such.
No need for attitude young man.
I doubt very much that Erle would agree with the way you are acting here.
But to each their own.
If you wanna continue to act this way, knock yourself out.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

wtf, did Hardwork108 start listening to Wu Tang clan?

[sanjuro_ronin]

wtf, did Hardwork108 start listening to Wu Tang clan?

I wouldn't be that insulting to BGZ, he seems to have a chip on his shoulder because, well, someone said mean things about him.
And that he is right and everyone else is wrong and that only he and his teachers have the real and authentic ICMA !!
Oh wait, that is HW8. LOL !!!

[Dale Dugas]

FYI, Dale, yes, I do have Joseph Crandall's permission (I can forward you the personal e-mail correspondence I've had with him, if you like). The information I post is done so with full permission..period. Any other questions, Dale?

actually that is not what he told me when I emailed to ask him if he knew what you were doing.

he said any information from his website is free to download and use as it has his copyright information all over it.

You are posting up a link to one of his books which he sells to support his site and himself.

He asked you to take down the link, and that was in his email to me as of Saturday.

So the person whose material you are giving away is asking you to not do such actions.

How does that consent to permission?

You are casting more and more offenses against yourself and you think that makes you legit?

Of course you will come back with LOL's and little smiley faces.

Christ you are like the new troll who thinks he can really do what he claims.

[bawang]

instead of reading all this stupid internet post i went to kfc and ate delicious toony tuesday with extra piece of chicken
u guys are dumb

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Go ahead, have your mutant chickens.

Mutant Kung Fu is way tastier.

[sanjuro_ronin]

instead of reading all this stupid internet post i went to kfc and ate delicious toony tuesday with extra piece of chicken
u guys are dumb

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/4/26/633763857262844905-KFC.jpg

[David Jamieson]

...and slowly, as the onion is peeled away, a pathological liar is revealed. :rolleyes:

I mean, this all started with a spam!

tremendous!

[BGZ BadBoy]

Dale, I removed the book in question. If you would like to read the personal e-mail correspondence in which Tim clearly has given me permission to post any of the free material from his website, I would be more than happy to forward it to you. Personally, I couldn't care less what you believe, but those are the facts, man.
David..it would seem that proverbial onion of yours is a shadow..lol.

[Dale Dugas]

http://www.meetup.com/BAGUAZHANG-THE-ART-OF-MOBILITY-LONGEVITY/members/11698842/

[Dale Dugas]

unfortunately you keep painting yourself as just another mouthboxer who seems to smoke way too many drugs and think that will make you anything but a silly pot head.

that as well as the wanna be thug crap just makes you look stupid, period.

You are always welcome to come to Boston and cross hands with me.

I think you would start to hack and cough after a few minutes if you are into the gange as much as I think you are.

Your photos all look as if you are higher than a kite.

No real fighter would ever pollute his lungs.

[uki]

one day stared down the barrel of an AK 47. nice!!!


Needless to say, I know Im not superman but 15 years later Im still alive because I didn’t do anything stupid. i can relate...


I think BGZBadboy has yet to have the same experiencei think you are right.


everyone talks about what they would do, or how they would react if someone pulled a gun, until the barrel is caressing your temple that is.... things change after that.the sweet lessons of personal experience.


same thing with a blade, the first time someone that doesnt like you cuts or stabs you maliciously, your respect and view of blades will often adapt for the better.i respect them because when i was younger i did not and i cut myself regularily being stupid with them.


personally i would rather confront a gun situation than a knife one. generally a gun is a form of control and power, a means of intimidation to force you down a certain path of action. if they wanted you dead you would be. a knife rarely come into play until its going to actually be used.i would rather neither happen, but since i have had my rude awakening, i am always interested in seeing how i would apply myself in a similar situation at this stage in my life - it's been 10 years since i felt the vibration of the hammer cocking thru my skull... i just may react next time instead going completely blank. :D

Either way, if a weapon's pulled, I'm pulling my .40 cal and evening the odds. LOL... unless you get shot first - what are you now, a bada$$ wild western gun-slinger?? LMAO!!!

i think you busted him up pretty good dale. :)

[BGZ BadBoy]

Dale..It's public knowledge that I belong to the this meetup group. What's your point?
Secondly..it would seem your attempt on "Rum Soaked Fist" to discredit me was immediately shot down by admin. Awww..what a shame.
Pretty pathetic, man.
Uki..where did Dale "bust me up"? I addressed his accusations with facts. Seems I shut that little hate-fest down pretty quick..lol.

[uki]

Pretty pathetic, man.much less than you. :p

[Dale Dugas]

Tyson,

It is not a hate fest.

You are posing as a teacher, yet all your present actions, words, blog entries paint a clear picture that you want to be thug, and promote the silliness that one encounters in that subhuman subculture. a real teacher would not act as you do, nor would they persist in acting like certain diseased parts of our society.

You want to be the white version of Black Taoist, feel free to do so.

But all the real teachers, and old school people are going to look at you as nothing more than white trash.

and you are doing nothing but nailing the coffin shut on that idea.

Good luck with keeping your 40 cal when the narcs get you for smoking all that weed.

Then all you will have is your mouth.

We all know who the pathetic one is Tyson, and its not me.

[BGZ BadBoy]

Dale..thank you for the anti-pot speech. Kudos to you..lol.
Maybe you should do your homework..most all of the old masters were opium addicts. I fail to see how pot is any worse than that..lol.
A real fighter would never pollute his lungs? Really? Even Dong Hai Chuan smoked a tobacco pipe.
Pretty uneducated observations on your part (surprise, surprise..lol).

[Dale Dugas]

tyson,

you are an idiot.

do what you want, but you will always pay the price for it.

Hopefully I will not have to listen to you anymore when you die of lung cancer.

Good luck with all that you will deal with when the cancer metastasizes to your major organs.

Posting up references to dead and rotten past masters does nothing about all the white trash thug garbage you are spewing.

You ever graduate, or was it GED all the way for you?

Im guessing its GED.

what do you think all your teachers would REALLY say to your actions?

I think it would not be what you think it would be.

[David Jamieson]

the ass in a hat said: Secondly..it would seem your attempt on "Rum Soaked Fist" to discredit me was immediately shot down by admin. Awww..what a shame.


You're wrong about shutting down any thread trashing you at rsf there too dude.
They pretty much see you for the douchebag you are there too!

surprise! lol

[BGZ BadBoy]

Dale..haha! When all else fails, initiate the personal attacks, huh?..lol.
FYI..I am an English Major currently working on my BA with a 3.85 GPA (Phi Theta Kappa..that's National Honors Society, btw).
"Dead and rotten past masters"? Wow, seems you hold your own martial heritage in high regard there, Dale..lol.
Please..you're an imbecilic cretin..lol. Grow up.

[BGZ BadBoy]

David..I never said they shut down the thread. Admin. (nianfong) clearly told Dale not to post a flame link from another forum.
It's pretty easy to talk nonsense about me there, too, considering I'm not a member..lol.
Get your facts straight, man (you're running-off at the mouth again..lol).

[bawang]

ur not black

[omarthefish]

Omar,

thank you for the post. I will look into the information you have posted. Saying he uses it is not the same thing as actually using it.
I agree. I also happen to think that Tim is probably one of the best examples you are ever going to find for someone using it competition. His credentials are impeccable. I also did not mean this as any kind of counter argument to your point. Tyson still appears to be a douchebag with no connection to Tim Cartmell whatsoever.

As to the idea of "natural" movements, that is a whole 'nother topic altogether. "Natural" has no real reference to what people without training do. It is a reference to how people do ANY movement. In this context, the opposite of "natural" is not "un-natural". The opposite of "natural" is "awkward". "Natural" movement is the goal of ANY martial art. Two people can stand and pose for a photo. One looks "natural" and the other looks awkward. Same pose, same photo. So in that context, it should be understood that there is nothing inherently natural about ANY baguazhang movement BUT with enough training, a person should be able to do them all and meet the postural requirements naturally. For a good example of this sort of natural movement in bagua, you could look at any number of Luo Dexiu's old instructional videos with his assistant (in the one I used to own) Tim Cartmell.

p.s.
Whoever said that they heard he was teaching a Shuai Jiao and Jujitsu mix....where do you think the Shuai Jiao came from? Hint: He never trained "Shuai Jiao" the style.

[BGZ BadBoy]

Omar..I have never claimed any affiliation whatsoever with Tim Cartmell. I simply referenced Tim's public information (in which he is in total agreement with my statements regarding natural movement, btw) in order to support my own observations.
Wow..it seems misrepresenting someone Else's statements is a common practice among the idiots who frequent this particular forum..lol. You're in good company.

[IronWeasel]

Dale..haha! When all else fails, initiate the personal attacks, huh?..lol.
FYI..I am an English Major currently working on my BA with a 3.85 GPA (Phi Theta Kappa..that's National Honors Society, btw).
"Dead and rotten past masters"? Wow, seems you hold your own martial heritage in high regard there, Dale..lol.
Please..you're an imbecilic cretin..lol. Grow up.



Did you just call the largest person on this forum an 'imbecilic cretin'???


...so much for any intelligence behind that 3.85.:rolleyes:

[Dale Dugas]

Yep, he did.

Im 6'2" and 265, and this little person would not be able to do ANYTHING against me.

Though he might get scared and pull his 40 and pop a cap in my a s s, at least that is what he will postulate through his pretend thugspeak.

With all the idiot this and fool that, one would think he could take all of it being redirected back at the person who started this in the first place. seems he wants to have it both ways and pretend to be hyper intelligent, but still be the tough smoke weed thug wannabe who emulates Black Taoist and Novell Bell. But it really makes one think that if someone were truly intelligent, they would see that what they are doing is sheer silliness....

I really have nothing more to say than good luck with your mouth. I really think you will have serious trouble trying to cash the checks it is writing, but that is just me.

Someone who has been training for over 30 years, and not trying to be all hip and cool and pretend I am something I am not.

good luck, you are going to need it.

[Lokhopkuen]

Tim still teaches IMA to who wants to learn that facet of training.

Yea;
One of my old timers came back recently after studying with Tim C & said he pretty much just into rolling and locking. Some of my classmates know him but I personally have never met the man. His reputation precedes.

[BGZ BadBoy]

If Dale has a personal problem with me and is unable or unwilling to travel to my location, he is free to send a suitable representative in his stead to settle any disagreements which we he feels we might have with one another..period.
Dale is just upset because he apparently feels like I'm urinating in his rice bowl. A pretty insecure position from where I'm standing.
Personally, I could care less..lol.

[Dale Dugas]

If Dale has a personal problem with me and is unable or unwilling to travel to my location, he is free to send a suitable representative in his stead to settle any disagreements which we he feels we might have with one another..period.
Dale is just upset because he apparently feels like I'm urinating in his rice bowl. A pretty insecure position from where I'm standing.
Personally, I could care less..lol.


Tyson,

how tall are you?

what do you weigh?

I need to know if you are big enough to ride this ride.

when its trained man against trained man, the bigger man is always going to win. being that I have more training and have been at it longer. It would be in your best interest to shut your mouth.

I have problems with any and all like you. People who pretend to be something they obviously are not.

You are not a shifu and no teacher would ever want to see his students act like you.

I would personally take anyone who acted like you and take their kung fu away from them if they were my students.

Ponder that.

it is obvious you do care as you have just passive aggressively challenged me.

The only insecure one is yourself, Tyson.

You are spouting off left and right rather than act like a real teacher, and a real man would. Acting like a thug is not how it really is.

You are a sad little man.

How about posting up some videos of you fighting, breaking or doing something other than posting empty action-less words on a forum?

[Lokhopkuen]

If Dale has a personal problem with me and is unable or unwilling to travel to my location, he is free to send a suitable representative in his stead to settle any disagreements which we he feels we might have with one another..period.
Dale is just upset because he apparently feels like I'm urinating in his rice bowl. A pretty insecure position from where I'm standing.
Personally, I could care less..lol.

Bro;
the last thing you'd want to do is cross hands with Dale.

He is bigger than you,
more educated than you,
he chews concrete for snacks and kibble and actually KNOWS gung fu.

The world of martial art is very small, this internet babble is real cute and all but please don't write a check with your mouth that your ass couldn't possibly cash because sooner or later you meet people unexpectedly in odd places.

Anyway live and learn.

I notice you are in Joplin? I'm doing a seminar series in Kansas City, MO in the middle of May and I love to meet new people. Come out as my guest and I'll be glad to field test you and post the results here for all of your new friends.:D

[BGZ BadBoy]

Dale..my invitation stands. Otherwise, you're just running-off at the mouth. If you would like me to "shut up", then by all means, shut me up..mmkay?
What's wrong? Don't like having every attempt you've made to publicly discredit me completely fizzle-out? You know exactly what I'm talking about, my friend (although I'm more than happy to keep that between us for the time being).
Your personal smear campaign is obviously going nowhere. Please though, feel free to continue..if nothing else, it's cheap entertainment..lol.

[David Jamieson]

lol. wow, outstanding.

so, you think you're gonna drum up some business through kfm?

okay then... :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

Dale..my invitation stands. Otherwise, you're just running-off at the mouth. If you would like me to "shut up", then by all means, shut me up..mmkay?
What's wrong? Don't like having every attempt you've made to publicly discredit me completely fizzle-out? You know exactly what I'm talking about, my friend (although I'm more than happy to keep that between us for the time being).
Your personal smear campaign is obviously going nowhere. Please though, feel free to continue..if nothing else, it's cheap entertainment..lol.

careful, he's closer than you think and would probably snap your assless twig like form in half. :p

[BGZ BadBoy]

Lok..thank you for the invitation. Please send me your seminar information (my personal e-mail and contact information are clearly posted on my website) and I would be more than happy to attend.
I have a couple of Gung Fu training brothers in Kansas City. If I show up with them, understand that it is not as back-up..lol. I have no problem with you at this point. The opportunity to cross hands with fellow practitioners is always a high priority on my martial "to do" list..lol.
Hope to hear from you. Peace.

[Lokhopkuen]

Dale..my invitation stands. Otherwise, you're just running-off at the mouth. If you would like me to "shut up", then by all means, shut me up..mmkay?
What's wrong? Don't like having every attempt you've made to publicly discredit me completely fizzle-out? You know exactly what I'm talking about, my friend (although I'm more than happy to keep that between us for the time being).
Your personal smear campaign is obviously going nowhere. Please though, feel free to continue..if nothing else, it's cheap entertainment..lol.

Many of the people you are picking with are well know, long time respected colleagues of mine and quite frankly friend you are being very disrespectful for some one of err questionable affiliations....

I notice you are in Joplin? (yea I'm repeating myself) I'm doing a seminar series in Kansas City, MO in the middle of May and I love to meet new people. Come out as my guest? I'll be glad to field test you and post the results here for all of your new friends.

[Dale Dugas]

Tyson,

It seems your 3.85 GPA is lost on certain questions asked of you.

How tall are you?
How much do you weigh?
How old are you?
How long have you been training?

please answer these questions.

If you can.

Passive aggressive is starting to make you look plain dumb.

[David Jamieson]

Tyson,

It seems your 3.85 GPA is lost on certain questions asked of you.

How tall are you?
How much do you weigh?
How old are you?
How long have you been training?

please answer these questions.

If you can.

Passive aggressive is starting to make you look plain dumb.

I'd say he's approx 6', probably weighs about 145 or so, says he's 40 and says he's been training for 20 years.

just sayin...

[BGZ BadBoy]

Lok,
Like I said, I have no personal problem with you, unless of course you're looking to create one. Otherwise, I think your martial brothers are able to stand-up for themselves.
I have simply posted my opinions and positions on various topics only to have your so-called colleagues challenge me at every turn. I have never, not once, instigated an argument or flame with anyone. Several people on this forum are intent on silencing me simply because they don't like what I represent, but last time I checked, we still (for all intents and purposes) live in a free country, and I am free to represent myself however I wish. It honestly is no-one Else's concern beyond the occasional, relatively innocent ("cough") fun of trash-talk which is so prevalent on this forum.
However, when anyone, members of this forum or otherwise, seriously attempt to discredit my integrity, initiate smear campaigns, and post flat lies, slander, and untruth about me, than you better believe with everything that you are that I'm going to stand up and call them out. I personally don't care what anyone thinks to the contrary.
You know, for everyone's talk regarding all of the peaceful warrior nonsense, I have yet to see much of that clearly demonstrated within the context of this forum. Personally, whether you like me or not is irrelevant..but when you seriously start calling me out, don't expect me to suddenly back down.
Anyway, Lok, that is where I stand. Again, I am more than happy to meet with you personally, but let's make it very clear on exactly what grounds that meeting will occur. If it's in the spirit of mutual exchange and martial brotherhood, great. If you're fishing for more, get in line.

[Lokhopkuen]

Lok..thank you for the invitation. Please send me your seminar information (my personal e-mail and contact information are clearly posted on my website) and I would be more than happy to attend.
I have a couple of Gung Fu training brothers in Kansas City. If I show up with them, understand that it is not as back-up..lol. I have no problem with you at this point. The opportunity to cross hands with fellow practitioners is always a high priority on my martial "to do" list..lol.
Hope to hear from you. Peace.

Sent it to tysondurr@att.net

[Dale Dugas]

tyson,

answer the questions asked of you.

can you do that, or are you chickening out since you realized that you are a very small man when compared to me?

[BGZ BadBoy]

Lok,
Yep..that's it. Peace.

[SoCo KungFu]

If Dale has a personal problem with me and is unable or unwilling to travel to my location, he is free to send a suitable representative in his stead to settle any disagreements which we he feels we might have with one another..period.
Dale is just upset because he apparently feels like I'm urinating in his rice bowl. A pretty insecure position from where I'm standing.
Personally, I could care less..lol.

Why don't you bust out your credit card and travel since you seem to think you're such hot ****? Hell here in Flo-town we even have a nice cage to fight it out in. Bet your ass too much a ***** to head out though...

[BGZ BadBoy]

Dale,
Not that it's ANY of your business either way, but I can clearly see you have no intention of shutting up until I do. So, here you go (again, most of this information has already been clearly posted elsewhere):

5'10"
160 lbs.
40
23 years

Do you feel better now? Has your curiosity been sufficiently quelled? Somehow, I seriously doubt it..lol.

[BGZ BadBoy]

Just in case you were curious concerning my lineage (and were likewise unable to read the information clearly posted on my website) I submit the following:

My Cao Style Lineage: Yin Fu, Cao Zhongsheng, Wu Jung, Richard Wu.
He Style Lineage: Yin Fu, He Jin Kui, Lou Shou Kui, Richard Wu.
(Richard originally studied Cao style wih his father, Wu Jung, and later studied He branch with Lou Shou Kui (whom he was introduced to through a friend of his father's).
My JRQ Style Lineage: William Lee (Richard's Son-in-Law) and Erle Montaigue.
My Wu Style TCC Lineage: William Lee.

There you go. Make of it what you will..lol.

[Dale Dugas]

How do you think you could handle someone who is 100 lbs bigger then you and has trained longer?

really, I would like to hear your dissertation on how you would be able to do ANYTHING against me or someone like me.

There would be no contest.

So why not concede before you get your kung fu taken from you?

[Dale Dugas]

your lineage means nothing to me.

as my lineage means nothing to you nor anyone else for that matter.

its all about the person and can they use it or not.

can you enlighten us on how you can defend against someone bigger, stronger and more well trained than yourself?

[omarthefish]

Omar..I have never claimed any affiliation whatsoever with Tim Cartmell. I simply referenced Tim's public information (in which he is in total agreement with my statements regarding natural movement, btw) in order to support my own observations.
Wow..it seems misrepresenting someone Else's statements is a common practice among the idiots who frequent this particular forum..lol. You're in good company.

Honestly dude, I didn't even read anything you wrote. I was only responding to Scott's comments/questions about Tim. I have no idea what your statements regarding natural movement were.

[IronWeasel]

Dale,
Not that it's ANY of your business either way, but I can clearly see you have no intention of shutting up until I do. So, here you go (again, most of this information has already been clearly posted elsewhere):

5'10"
160 lbs.
40
23 years

Do you feel better now? Has your curiosity been sufficiently quelled? Somehow, I seriously doubt it..lol.



The silver lining here is that your flight to Boston will be fairly in-expensive...

...with it being one-way, and all.

[BGZ BadBoy]

Dale,
This is precisely why I told you to contact me personally if you had a problem (which, btw, it is clear that you do). As usual, you simply would like to use whatever information that I give you in yet another vain attempt to somehow publicly discredit me (at least in your own mind).
Shouldn't you be "Rolling the Pearl" as opposed to flaming with someone you obviously love to hate? Why don't you try smoking a bowl and calming your bull-in-a-china-shop ass, down, big boy..lol.

[Dale Dugas]

where is all the tough talk now, son?

again with the passive aggressive BS.

There is no way you, or ANY of your students could deal with me one on one or if you ALL tried. That is something I can say with assurance.

You have a big mouth, and I would very much like to see what comes out of it when you start hitting the ground, over, and over, and over.....

You do not have enough training or skill or even bodyweight to even move me, let alone do me any form of injury.

Do you have any form of Iron Palm, or Iron Body training?

If not, how are you going to stand being hit by someone like myself?

I can take any strike you could possible throw at me and eat it. hands down.

You smoke way too much weed to be mouthing off, son, way too much.

[BGZ BadBoy]

Dale,
And yet again, here we go. You're the one with the obvious problem..I simply called you on it. Hard pill to swallow, huh? (I'm guessing you haven't learned to eat much bitter..lol).
I've made it very clear where I stand. It's up to you what you would like to do with that information.

[Dale Dugas]

dear lord.

more drama from this stoned out fool who actually thinks he can deal with someone larger, stronger and better trained who has more experience dealing with people.

seems you are not so keen on actually putting your money where your cakehole is.

you are the new passive aggressive mouthboxer of KFM!

[Dale Dugas]

seems you cannot make a sensible decision with all those burnt brain cells.

have a good night.

and think about how you can deal with a bigger, stronger, better trained person.

[BGZ BadBoy]

Dale,
I've read your past posts and previous flame wars with other users on this board..seems I'm not the only one you've had a problem with at one point or another..lol. Really quite interesting and enlightening information to be had from even a basic search of the KFO forums.
Btw..just curious, didn't you used to claim Brian Grey's information as part of your lineage? I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, but unlike you, I refuse to simply run-off at the mouth until I have my facts straight. Dirty little secret there, Dale?
Enlighten us, please..feel free to share with the group..lol.

[Dale Dugas]

Nope, never used Brian Gray material. Though when I started looking for instruction he was one of the people who was writing articles. I contacted him and was told he was the real deal.
Like many young people I bought his book. It was pure crap.

My Iron Skills come from Gene Chicoine.

You need to read more, and smoke less.

try again.

[goju]

well this thread got awfully dumb

please though commence with more- e chest puffing to mark your territory

(retard seal clap)

[BGZ BadBoy]

The only account I might be wrong about is the Brian Grey affiliation (which, btw, I fully acknowledged in my previous post). The rest of what I posted is completely correct on all counts..lol.
Weren't you also banned from the KFO forum at one point under a different user name? Again, just curious..lol.

[goju]

u guys are dumb

thats about right:D