Sydney Guangzhou Pak Mei Training Video

[Yum Cha]

Here's a video we just put together, posted on our Youtube channel. It shows general training and some techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqoV_ivujLM

Also, there is a cool 20 year old video of a crazy old monk doing some Ba Qua and Pak Hok inspired stuff. I love his Giant Screwdriver form...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_stEH_ynn4&feature=channel

Thanks for the feedback in advance.

[extrajoseph]

Hi Yum Cha,

Isn't that Chan Hak-Fu's son in the second video in the Glebe Temple? I wonder where he is now.

XJ

[Yum Cha]

Hi Yum Cha,

Isn't that Chan Hak-Fu's son in the second video in the Glebe Temple? I wonder where he is now.

XJ


Hi XJ, Yes indeed, that's him. Lost track of him years ago. Haven't seen him at the temple on new years for a long time, maybe 5-8 years.

[Gru Bianca]

Hi XJ, Yes indeed, that's him. Lost track of him years ago. Haven't seen him at the temple on new years for a long time, maybe 5-8 years.

Hi Yum Cha,

if that is Chan Hak Fu's son, what is that he was performing?


Cheers

[Yum Cha]

Hi Yum Cha,

if that is Chan Hak Fu's son, what is that he was performing?


Cheers

Whatever he wants.....LOL....

Truth is, I have no idea. We were filming one day, and we asked him if he wanted to be filmed, this is what he did.

He always said he did Ba Qua, but everybody else said he did Pak Hok, because of his father. I was hoping a Pak Hok or Ba Qua guy might have some comments.

Of course, given circumstances of late, we might not get a lot of Ba Qua people commenting.....

Perhaps Pak Hok?

Just out of curiosity, he look like he has the goods, or just silly? Regardless of his father.

[Gru Bianca]

Whatever he wants.....LOL....

Truth is, I have no idea. We were filming one day, and we asked him if he wanted to be filmed, this is what he did.

He always said he did Ba Qua, but everybody else said he did Pak Hok, because of his father. I was hoping a Pak Hok or Ba Qua guy might have some comments.

Of course, given circumstances of late, we might not get a lot of Ba Qua people commenting.....

Perhaps Pak Hok?

Just out of curiosity, he look like he has the goods, or just silly? Regardless of his father.


I do practice Pak Hok and that's why I asked you what he was performing in the first place.

I do not see much Pak Hok in there but it might just be me and my limited knowledge.

Cheers and thanks for the videos

[lkfmdc]

movements are vaguely, I mean VAGUELY :o Pak Hok pai "chut yip bouh" but man, wow, wow, man, weird

[cerebus]

Yeah, when I first saw that, without knowing who he was, I was thinking that he was doing an improvised "martial dance" to the music. Maybe he was....

[Yum Cha]

Yeah, when I first saw that, without knowing who he was, I was thinking that he was doing an improvised "martial dance" to the music. Maybe he was....

Cerebus, I think you are pretty close there... The drums are just overlaid, so it was off the top of his head.

He was a mercenary in South America after WWII, fighting in the jungles. You got NCO rank by beating the guy that outranked you. He was Cmd Sgt Major. If messed him up though, and he became very religious, and a little looney.

Dave, didn't I show this to you before?

[cerebus]

Cerebus, I think you are pretty close there... The drums are just overlaid.

He was a mercenary in South America after WWII, fighting in the jungles. You got NCO rank by beating the guy that outranked you. He was Cmd Sgt Major. If messed him up though, and he became very religious, and a little looney.

Wow. No kidding. Yeah, having been in the military myself, I can understand how violence ****s people up. And yeah, Command Sgt Major is as high as it gets. I hope he's found peace within himself...

[Yum Cha]

Yea, it was sad. He got into trouble, pulled out a cops eye after a bar fight, and got institutionalised. I saw him once after that on meds and he was broken in spirit.

[Gru Bianca]

Yea, it was sad. He got into trouble, pulled out a cops eye after a bar fight, and got institutionalised. I saw him once after that on meds and he was broken in spirit.

That's really sad.......
In all honesty in all this years... the first time I heard him being mentiioned was by you few years back. Within the Pak Hok Pai comunity that I am familiar with (including Australia) I never heard him being mentioned not even when his father was...... I wonder......

[Yum Cha]

That's really sad.......
In all honesty in all this years... the first time I heard him being mentiioned was by you few years back. Within the Pak Hok Pai comunity that I am familiar with (including Australia) I never heard him being mentioned not even when his father was...... I wonder......

He was estranged from his father, I know that much. Also, he always talked about Ba Qua, not Pak Hok.

[friday]

I have seen you guys training at that park a few times! :) nice videos...

[Yum Cha]

@ Friday, stop by and say hi next time.

[friday]

@Yum Cha - will do next time I pop by. I recall it was Sunday afternoons. PM me with the exact time so I won't miss you guys.

Thx
F

[sanjuro_ronin]

Violence is a horrific thing and somethings can scar us for life.
One must be cautious of systems that advocate extensive use of brutal violence as a need for combat effectiveness and do NOT temper it with compassion and understanding and regret.
Some systems, teachers really, have been know to attract sociopaths, one must be cautious of that.

Nice clips MOFU, but the lack of chi projections and silky jammies makes m e question the authenticity !!

[Yum Cha]

What?? You didn't see the Chi balls flying off?

Wouldn't broadcast that too loudly, you know, street cred and all that....

[TAO YIN]

Good to see a clip up!

The Jik Bo you perform has a few steps more than I am used to. What is the point for doing the step before the punch? What are you wanting to develop I mean? Also it looks like you are really leaning out over your punch, coming from the waist rather than from your shoulders and making it too tensed...Is that how you guys emphasize FCTT?

The clip looked very dragon influenced...Why didn't your teacher Ah Sing perform?

Cheers

Tao

[Yum Cha]

Lots of questions Tao, looks like you have a puzzle. :D

[TAO YIN]

:confused:

No, that is your puzzle that you are putting together on that clip. I am not on that clip. I just wondered why you all were expressing things that way, that's all.

[Jorge]

:confused:

No, that is your puzzle that you are putting together on that clip. I am not on that clip. I just wondered why you all were expressing things that way, that's all.

Yum Cha,

Can you please answer Tao's question?

Thank you in advance,

Jorge

[esox]

yum cha,

Thanks for the vid's, I'm very suprised tou have no screwdriver set in your class, I thought we all had that in our lineage.

Any way there is far too few video's of pak mei being performed the way you and I believe it should be and I for one care not a jot how many steps you have.

Thanks again

[Yum Cha]

yum cha,

Thanks for the vid's, I'm very suprised tou have no screwdriver set in your class, I thought we all had that in our lineage.

Any way there is far too few video's of pak mei being performed the way you and I believe it should be and I for one care not a jot how many steps you have.

Thanks again

Thanks Esox. Yes, the screwdriver form... I've always put off learning it, because after you learn it, man, you are screwed... :eek:

He used to carry that screwdriver around with him, under one of his rags, all the time.

[Yum Cha]

Tao, and Jorge,

There is a certain decorum, don't expect me to give you my insight unless you put up what you think first. If its not engaging, I can't be bothered. I respond the same way to other peoples posts, you got to lay it out if you want to play.

You are both Yau Kung Mun / White Tiger students, and both styles claim to know or be Pak Mei. You don't think perhaps that may be colouring your interpretation?

[TAO YIN]

I did tell you what I thought. But you replied that I had a puzzle? Which makes no sense because you are putting together that puzzle on that clip.

Me talking this is much more engaging than everyone telling you 'great job.' Anyhow, I think it was my BJJ practice that coloured my interpretation more than anything...

Anyways, I will give it to you guys though. You don't look like any Bak Mei, Yau Kung Mun, or White Tiger I have ever seen, anywhere.

[Yum Cha]

Tao,
I thought I should add, that stepping exercise was first taught to me by your Si Gung.

[Jorge]

Tao,
I thought I should add, that stepping exercise was first taught to me by your Si Gung.


What does that have to do with anything? We're asking what's that type of stepping for, as you're taking an extra step. We don't train Jik Bo like that, so I can't give insight on something I don't train. Why would I ask, if I aleady knew the answer?

Jorge

[TAO YIN]

So you are practicing Yau Kung Mun?:rolleyes:

I've also seen it in Ly Jik bo where you run through the punch as if you are catching up with your opponent after you hit him. Then, from there you do the ripping motion for the throw. Is this the point that you were taught? So that you stick to your opponent assuming that you hit him hard with that right cross, so that you can follow up by ripping him to the ground?

There are no ill intentions here man. I just wanted to see what you thought about it. For the record since you are practicing Yau Kung Mun I guess, and this isn't ill intended either, you are hunching over too much. It looks like you are fighting a midgit! Hunching over doesn't equal FCTT.

Again, what are you doing that extra step for and hunching over so much when you do it, then ripping. This isn't kinematically important doing it that way, IMO.

[Lai See]

The screwdriver set is only for the inside the inner gate on the comfy chair students. Cuh, don't you people know that!

This 'extra' step business and the questions pertaining to it.
What is the name of the set and what is one of the points of the set?

Yes that's right - forward step.

Look at the performances of Gou Bou Toi you can easily find on the t'interweb. How many steps back are there after 'Emperor offers wine' ? Do YOU know absolutely? I don't. Fact is it doesn't matter. Different people do different amounts, it's not a big deal. 'Some' steps and understanding the technique is what matters.

Unless of course the performance from Tiger on Dutys Sifu is 'wrong' and the performance from Ringo Lo is 'wrong' and the performance from Lee Sifu's students in London is 'wrong'. I don't think so. They are all, 'right'.
THE step is what matters. How many is irrelevant. It's a form. A form performed and practiced on one's own in order to learn the techniques.

TAO YIN, could you explain what you mean by this - "This isn't kinematically important doing it that way, IMO."

[Jorge]

The screwdriver set is only for the inside the inner gate on the comfy chair students. Cuh, don't you people know that!

This 'extra' step business and the questions pertaining to it.
What is the name of the set and what is one of the points of the set?

Yes that's right - forward step.

Look at the performances of Gou Bou Toi you can easily find on the t'interweb. How many steps back are there after 'Emperor offers wine' ? Do YOU know absolutely? I don't. Fact is it doesn't matter. Different people do different amounts, it's not a big deal. 'Some' steps and understanding the technique is what matters.

Unless of course the performance from Tiger on Dutys Sifu is 'wrong' and the performance from Ringo Lo is 'wrong' and the performance from Lee Sifu's students in London is 'wrong'. I don't think so. They are all, 'right'.
THE step is what matters. How many is irrelevant. It's a form. A form performed and practiced on one's own in order to learn the techniques.

TAO YIN, could you explain what you mean by this - "This isn't kinematically important doing it that way, IMO."


Lai See,

I understand what you are saying, but if there is an extra step in his Jik Bo that I have never seen any Pak Mei do, then I'm going to ask what is it for. Forms just don't teach you HHBB or FCTT, there are fighting principle enbedded in the forms. For all I know the extra step is a trip or something. Again, whats the problem with asking a question. My Brother Tao and I never said he was wrong. We asked whats the step is for. Fine, it can be just for show, but I was always told that Pak Mei had no show in it and is all fighting. Maybe they were wrong.

Buby

[TAO YIN]

Kinematically Speaking...

From a developmental point of view, Jik Bo is for developing FCTT in the body. IMO, for development the more steps in between each move the worse. The faster the steps in between the worse. Why? Because it's easy to step and create power simply from momentum. But that's not from "body." To develop "body" from momentum only, it makes more sense to full step anyways...

From a fighting point of view, which is not the only way I view kinematics although many do...Let's look at what is going on. Step with Fingers, Step Hunched Over Punch, Step Hunched Over Rip. So the idea here is the first hit was a head shot that landed and made them retreat. The second hit was a low body shot that landed and made them retreat. And then the third hit was a rip to somewhere o the upper gate??? For me, I just wouldn't fight a midgit this way...:eek:

Why not just sprint and punch as much as possible at the same time?

[Yum Cha]

Buby, Sorry, you are suffering for Tao's attitude.

This isn't a performance, its just training, stepping training, perhaps one of the most basic exercises in Pak Mei, beginner stuff. (But regardless, we have that step in Jik bo too....).

There is an extra step, actually, you lose a step, :D. Its not a trip, not a niggling little foot stomp or anything, just basic bik bo.

How's your bik bo?

[TAO YIN]

Yum Cha,

I didn't have any attitude. I simply asked you at first. Then you told me I have a puzzle? Don't be a fucckhead, and I won't be a bigger one.

[Yum Cha]

Yum Cha,

I didn't have any attitude. I simply asked you at first. Then you told me I have a puzzle? Don't be a fucckhead, and I won't be a bigger one.


"Puzzles of being and not-being, great kinds"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist_(dialogue)

[Jorge]

"Puzzles of being and not-being, great kinds"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist_(dialogue)

Yum Cha,

No attitude. Just asking a question. If you don't mind, are you taught to keep your elbows in all the way thru like in sat chui? Chum Boi Chum Juerng!


Thank in advance,

jorge

[Lai See]

Kinematically Speaking...

From a developmental point of view, Jik Bo is for developing FCTT in the body. IMO, for development the more steps in between each move the worse. The faster the steps in between the worse. Why? Because it's easy to step and create power simply from momentum. But that's not from "body." To develop "body" from momentum only, it makes more sense to full step anyways...

From a fighting point of view, which is not the only way I view kinematics although many do...Let's look at what is going on. Step with Fingers, Step Hunched Over Punch, Step Hunched Over Rip. So the idea here is the first hit was a head shot that landed and made them retreat. The second hit was a low body shot that landed and made them retreat. And then the third hit was a rip to somewhere o the upper gate??? For me, I just wouldn't fight a midgit this way...:eek:

Why not just sprint and punch as much as possible at the same time?

A question, are you a teacher of Pak Mei?
I ask this because the way that you answer infers that you have authority in this respect.

My response to your points here when I know what I am dealing with if you please.
Thank you in advance.

[TAO YIN]

Lai See,

My Sifu gave me permission to teach a little. I passed my beginning instructor's level test the day after bombing it the first day. I gassed the first time, and my Sifu made me do it all over again. He's nice like that. Holy Shiit, that was 8 years ago!

I have a massive test coming up next year. I think Sifu plans to break one of my arms and then see if my skill is good enough to set it on the spot, heal it immediately from Chi Gung, then fight thereafter. ;)

I taught years ago, but haven't much since then.

[Lai See]

Lai See,

My Sifu gave me permission to teach a little. I passed my beginning instructor's level test the day after bombing it the first day. I gassed the first time, and my Sifu made me do it all over again. He's nice like that. Holy Shiit, that was 8 years ago!

I have a massive test coming up next year. I think Sifu plans to break one of my arms and then see if my skill is good enough to set it on the spot, heal it immediately from Chi Gung, then fight thereafter. ;)

I taught years ago, but haven't much since then.

So, is that a yes? You are (or have been) a Pak Mei teacher? Your teacher gave you permission to teach Pak Mei?

The massive test bit is a joke, yes?

[TAO YIN]

Lai See,

Yes, you are correct. The massive test bit isn't a joke but, just the broken arm bit. Sifu is going to guide me through heell for sure when I go and see him. I am training up for it daily. It's beyond difficult. Just the diet alone makes life, well, different.

I am not sure what all I will have to do and in what order, but it will be a crazy external test, a crazy written test, a crazy oral test, and a crazy internal test, covering everything.

Just for some of the external it will cover the following:

- All Hand and Weapon forms with and without rings on until I puke probably. Used to when we did this if we did one move wrong. BEEP! Start over. (Two man stick forms with only you wearing rings hurts).

- 108s. Body weight exercises all done 108 times, in sets. How many pull-ups can you do, slowly?

- Timed roller bar, claw logs, grab bag, iron palm, and cotton palm.

- Timed Wooden Dummy. (I haven't learned this yet, but its a dummy form that has about 180 moves, and you have to do it as fast and as properly as you can ten times in a row).

- Timed 2 mile run.

- Timed 500 meter Swim.

- Lion Rolling the Ball test. (This will hurt the most).

- Timed Grappling and Rolling. The more people, the more it hurts. 3 people, ten minutes a piece. That's 30 minutes.

- Bagwork and pad work covering all of the combos we do. (Sifu's number is 108, so I reckon everything will have to be done 108 times).

- Timed Stand up. The more people, the more it hurts. 3 people, 5 minutes a piece. That's 15 minutes.

---Basically two of the things above that I mentioned will be for a small amount of the internal test. That's the 108s and Lion Rolling the Ball test. I have been training daily for the 108s because I can't do all of it now, but I am working on it. For the rest of the internal test, I have no idea. But it will be insane. How long can you practice OMM for? Yikes, I didn't even mention stance work.

[TAO YIN]

A few more for yall...

(Making 18 Faces)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suQRYsz769Q&feature=related

(You mean the Man Jee? Small 10,000 Temple? I ain't repeating nothing!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2IrDKfE8bM&feature=related

(Might as well jump, Jump!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg2a6FAOK5Y&feature=related


Good stuff actually. Love to see the differences.

[Olaf]

With regards to the jumping; his father does not seem to use it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1h_gZEf1JA

[TAO YIN]

In both of those Sup Baat Mors those guys hands are going off.

You got to admit though, Ying Jow Lin Kuil is a beautiful form.

[Lai See]

Lai See,

Yes, you are correct.

Correct about what exactly? There were four questions, unless your answer is yes to all of them?

[TAO YIN]

Lai See,

Sifu gave me permission to teach.

I taught in the past.

The test is not a joke... Other than the breaking arm bit, re-setting the arm, and doing chi gung to the arm. But, the internal test that I have to do will cover chi gung, dit da, and healing.

[Lai See]

Lai See,

Sifu gave me permission to teach.

I taught in the past.

The test is not a joke... Other than the breaking arm bit, re-setting the arm, and doing chi gung to the arm. But, the internal test that I have to do will cover chi gung, dit da, and healing.

Permission to teach precisely what, and what precisely did you thus teach are the questions I would like you to answer specifically please?

[TAO YIN]

Lai See,

I am not going to list everything because you know the names of the forms.

Sifu gave me permission to teach the external Yau Kung Mun and Bak Mei.

I don't have permission to teach any of the internal Yau Kung Mun Sup Baat Seurng Toy Jeurng or the internal Bak Mei.

I doubt that anyone will ever teach out the Yau Kung Mun internal forms. They are complicated and require a lot of pain and patience to develop.

[Lai See]

Lai See,

I am not going to list everything because you know the names of the forms.

Sifu gave me permission to teach the external Yau Kung Mun and Bak Mei.

I don't have permission to teach any of the internal Yau Kung Mun Sup Baat Seurng Toy Jeurng or the internal Bak Mei.

I doubt that anyone will ever teach out the Yau Kung Mun internal forms. They are complicated and require a lot of pain and patience to develop.

What I am trying to understand here you see, is if your Pak Mei is 'within' your system of Yau Kung Mun, or if it is a separate entity.
Because you make a distinction between an 'external' and an 'internal' Pak Mei, whereas everyone else here does not (apart from Jorge who is also a Yau Kung Mun man). This leads me to believe rightly or wrongly that 'your' Pak Mei is not the same as 'our' Pak Mei.
I can also deduct from this, again right or wrong, that what makes 'yours' different IS Yau Kung Mun, its influence and/or its differences. Would I be right in saying this?
For my part I cannot understand how Pak Mei can be a 'part' within another system. This in turn again shows (me) how much that we must differ in our understanding of it.
Which would explain why we cannot seem to agree on the appearingly simplest of things within each others 'Pak Mei'.

Your last sentence "They are complicated and require a lot of pain and patience to develop" perfectly describes the sets of Pak Mei to me!

[TAO YIN]

Lai See,

Aside from Weapons and Two Man Forms...Yau Kung Mun has 15 'external' forms. Inside those 15 are all of the Bak Mei hand forms that CLC taught back in his Guangdong days, plus some forms that Ha Hon Hung added. Those do not include the 3 internal Yau Kung Mun Sup Baat Seurng Toy Jeurng forms.

The external Bak Mei forms that Ha Hon Hung learned from CLC are 'within' Yau Kung Mun or whatever, but they are the same forms. Sifu also learned the differences between the Guangzhou forms, Hong Kong forms, and Vietnamese forms.

Anyways, so you have that.

The Internal Bak Mei that I am talking about is not from any of those sources. It comes from O Mei Bak Mei which has it's external forms as well as its Internal, Bak Mei Tian Gong Baat Faat. It is in and of itself and separate. This is what I was talking about when I was talking about Internal Bak Mei.


-For agreement, I don't know what we have disagreed about other than having an argument about Bil Jee at one time and maybe a chat about you saying that Yau Kung Mun was a joke.

If you want to talk about the physical aspects of Bak Mei, and take away all the metaphors and analogies of how you view it and how I view it, we can look at it objectively and say that there are only so many different ways that the body can move. You know what I mean?

The sets of Bak Mei do require a lot of patience and pain, I agree with you. The way that the Yau Kung Mun Sup Baat Seurng Toy Jeurng develops is just very different is all. It's a different kind of pain and patience. Hardly anyone would want to ever even properly practice it.

Anyways, hope my rambling clears things up.

Cheers,

Tao