Bagua's whole body power

[kung fu fighter]

Does bagua use Peng jing like in tai chi, if so how does one maintain the structure when bending at the waist?

[uki]

Does bagua use Peng jing like in tai chi, if so how does one maintain the structure when bending at the waist?peng is everything... your structure simply changes when you bend the waist - peng keeps it all together... optimal movement and power comes from a unified body in ANY position - this is the tenacity of the tiger, the ability to strike from any position.

[Dale Dugas]

Baguazhang has different energies than Peng and they are done differently than Taji.

Baguazhang creates most of their energies from moving.

We do not root and stand still like Taiji we create motion and take that power generated and use it at will.

[uki]

We do not root and stand still like Taiji we create motion and take that power generated and use it at will.like waves crashing on the beach...

[kung fu fighter]

Baguazhang has different energies than Peng and they are done differently than Taji.

Baguazhang creates most of their energies from moving.

We do not root and stand still like Taiji we create motion and take that power generated and use it at will.

How does Bagua root by creating motion When bending from the waist like in this picture http://www.yinstylebaguazhang.com/images/moving_and_striking.jpg

[Dale Dugas]

I cannot comment on He Jin Bao as he is a Yin stylist and does not follow the same principles I do in Jiulong Baguazhang.

[kung fu fighter]

I cannot comment on He Jin Bao as he is a Yin stylist and does not follow the same principles I do in Jiulong Baguazhang.


How does your linage of bagua maintain (central equalibrium) when twisting and bending at the waist? Does your Bagua linage maintain the alignment of tai chi such as suspending the crown of the head?

What's the equivelent of Peng jing in Bagua?



peng is everything... your structure simply changes when you bend the waist - peng keeps it all together... optimal movement and power comes from a unified body in ANY position - this is the tenacity of the tiger, the ability to strike from any position.

What are some of the correct skeletal/spinal alignments or method of body use in order to maintain a unified body, when changing your structure by bending the waist?

[uki]

What are some of the correct skeletal/spinal alignmentsthat is why you fail. :)

[Scott R. Brown]

I will be happy to comment on the picture!

Body alignment, when learning the techniques of a fighting system, is an ideal that does not necessarily occur in real life. One must adapt to each situation which is constantly in flux. If you spend your time in a fight trying to execute a technique as ideally learned, from an ideal position of balance, you are focusing on the wrong thing.

“Balance” is a relation between your feet, your knees, your waist and your torso. When these are in a specific alignment, you are in balance, but this alignment is also in relation with your opponent so it is variable based upon the circumstances.

There is an ideal relationship between yourself and your opponent that is based upon the situation.
Each circumstance, then, requires a different alignment of body to your base and yourself to your opponent.

In the picture you posted "black shirt" destabilized his opponent by forcing the right knee of his opponent forward with his left knee. This destabilized "white shirt". When you are standing up, if you bend forward at the waist you will notice your hips move backward in order to compensate for the extra weight forward of center. As long as you can stand without having to move any of your body parts to compensate, you are in balance. In movement we must constantly move body parts in order to maintain balance. Even when we walk, this is why we mostly move our arms when walking. It is not necessary in all circumstances, but moving the arms when walking occurs to maintain balance. But sometimes balance is precarious and any sudden change of body structure will cause you to lose balance.

One of these sudden changes is the breaking of a knee forward which moves the hips forward out of balance with the torso. This causes a sudden movement of the torso backwards in order to compensate for the hips moving forward. Try it yourself. Stand with your feet a little more than shoulder width apart and knees slightly bent. I would say move your hips forward, but instead just lean backwards. You will see that your hips move forward to compensate for the weight being distributed backwards. This same thing occurs when some outside force moves your hips forward as when someone suddenly forces your weight bearing knee forwards. Moving the knee forward, moves the hips forward which moves the torso backward causing you to lose balance if the movement is too abrupt or if the torso moves too far.

In order to not fall over we must then compensate when our body changes alignment.

So, back to the picture: “white shirt’s” right knee moves suddenly forward which takes with it the hips, the torso moves backwards in order to compensate. When the torso moves too far backwards, in order to maintain our balance, we must further compensate by taking a step backwards in the same direction as the weight shift. Torso moves back, the foot must step back in order to compensate and regain balance. However, you will notice that “black shirt” has trapped the right leg of “white shirt”. He cannot step backwards. From this relationship in positions it takes just a little bit of a push of the “white shirt’s” torso to take it beyond the precarious balance point and he falls over. He cannot compensate for his loss of body alignment, so he falls.

“Black shirt” also traps “white shirt’s” left arm across his body in order to prevent “white shirt” from grasping “black shirt” on the way down.

“Black shirt” remains in balance, in this picture, even though he is leaning over because his body compensates according to the circumstance, however it is generally not necessary to bend so far over. In most circumstances, once the opponent’s center of balance is broken and the compensating leg is trapped, just a slight push of the torso will send him over. Something else is going on in this picture that caused “black shirt” to bend over so far. Perhaps he is describing or detailing a specific response or technique. But in the real world of bodies contending, there is not specific, strict alignment of body. The body must adapt to each situation and in order to prevail we follow principles more than techniques. Each technique must be adapted and modified as the circumstances dictate.

As long as you are standing and the opponent has fallen, you have done something correctly.

[dimethylsea]

Does bagua use Peng jing like in tai chi, if so how does one maintain the structure when bending at the waist?


Probably the "bend" at the waist you perceive is more apparent than actual. Most kinds of bagua focus on twisting the knees, thighs, waist, upper abs etc. When something is twisted really tight it can appear to be curled in on itself (and look like it's bending). From a biomechanical point of view it is "lengthened" because of all the stretching.

Instead of asking "is there bending in the waist?" you might ask "is the waist collapsed or extended?".

If the waist is twisted enough it's much much harder to "collapse" it (cause it's wrung out like a wet dish towel).

Maybe taiji prefers just to not bend, but bagua often likes to "take it to the extreme" and twist things along the spine.

Does this help any?

[kung fu fighter]

Baguazhang has different energies than Peng and they are done differently than Taji.

Thanks Dale, What are the names of the different energies in Bagua and what's the concept behind them?



When you are standing up, if you bend forward at the waist you will notice your hips move backward in order to compensate for the extra weight forward of center. As long as you can stand without having to move any of your body parts to compensate, you are in balance. In movement we must constantly move body parts in order to maintain balance. Even when we walk, this is why we mostly move our arms when walking. It is not necessary in all circumstances, but moving the arms when walking occurs to maintain balance. But sometimes balance is precarious and any sudden change of body structure will cause you to lose balance.

One of these sudden changes is the breaking of a knee forward which moves the hips forward out of balance with the torso. This causes a sudden movement of the torso backwards in order to compensate for the hips moving forward. Try it yourself. Stand with your feet a little more than shoulder width apart and knees slightly bent. I would say move your hips forward, but instead just lean backwards. You will see that your hips move forward to compensate for the weight being distributed backwards. This same thing occurs when some outside force moves your hips forward as when someone suddenly forces your weight bearing knee forwards. Moving the knee forward, moves the hips forward which moves the torso backward causing you to lose balance if the movement is too abrupt or if the torso moves too far.

Thanks Scott, now it makes alot of sense! So in Bagua the above is used in addition to the classic CTS alignment?




Probably the "bend" at the waist you perceive is more apparent than actual. Most kinds of bagua focus on twisting the knees, thighs, waist, upper abs etc. When something is twisted really tight it can appear to be curled in on itself (and look like it's bending). From a biomechanical point of view it is "lengthened" because of all the stretching.

Instead of asking "is there bending in the waist?" you might ask "is the waist collapsed or extended?".

If the waist is twisted enough it's much much harder to "collapse" it (cause it's wrung out like a wet dish towel).

Maybe taiji prefers just to not bend, but bagua often likes to "take it to the extreme" and twist things along the spine.

Does this help any?

This helped alot, thanks!

here is the type of waist bending movement that i am referring to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T_FX9np8jM

[SPJ]

Does bagua use Peng jing like in tai chi, if so how does one maintain the structure when bending at the waist?

we have to consider everything in pair or in opposition

1. peng or expand vs suo shrink

2. opening and closing power/posture

--

if you pay attention

ba gua moves/postures all start with neutralization and then counter attack

or shrink first and then expand

or close first and then open

---

so yes, peng is used a lot in ba gua, too.

--

[SPJ]

the fundamental "differences"

would be in theory or tactics/strategy

1. Tai chi use little move to defeat bigger move or use stillness to overcome movement or yi jin zhi dong.

2. ba gua use walking to solve all of your fighting problems

you walk or move to neutralize and you walk or move to counterattack

yi zhou wei yong.

--

but peng energy utilization and generation would be more similar than different

--